It’s not surprising that as the feds roll up insurrectionists, they’re finding cops who participated in the Beer Gut Putsch (and stupidly posted evidence of their crimes online). Police and military organizations have had an unaddressed right-wing extremism problem forever. Here’s hoping the Biden-Harris admin’s police reform initiatives include a robust de-Nazification component.
There are also stories of police heroism emerging from the failed coup, including the quick thinking of Officer Eugene Goodman, who at great personal risk lured the violent mob up a staircase and away from an unguarded door to the Senate chamber, possibly saving lives. Goodman will probably receive a Congressional Gold Medal for his bravery.
And here’s another brave cop, Officer Daniel Hodges, in a clip that includes one of the most disturbing images from that day. Incredibly, he wasn’t badly injured:
“If it wasn’t my job I would do it for free. It was absolutely my pleasure to crush a white nationalist insurrection,” he said. “And we’ll do it as many times as it takes.”
— Liam Stack (@liamstack) January 16, 2021
I’m grateful for Hodges’ bravery in the face of that mob and also thankful that he called the insurrection by its proper name. If we’re to pull this country back from the precipice, we’ll need to tell the truth about what brought us to this point.
Open thread.
Immanentize
Morning laugh:
jeffreyw
I look forward to the time when we don’t need heroes.
Baud
OT but interesting inside baseball about DNC politics.
OzarkHillbilly
‘I had no qualms’: The people turning in loved ones for the Capitol attack
‘Nuff said.
Immanentize
I know this is a thread about good cops, but it is amazing how often “good” cops stand by when bad cops are bad.
A story from a Seattle E.R.
raven
Lotsa insurrectionist getting let go. Does anyone know if the Capitol Police keep stashes of zip ties in storage somewhere in the building?
Baud
@raven:
The probably have some police equipment on site.
raven
@Baud: If these fuckers can prove that’s where they got them there are going to be some big holes in the prosecution’s case, right IMM?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Wikler isn’t worried:
That’s good enough for me.
Baud
@raven:
Depends what they ultimately get charged with. Just because they were on site, the guy still took them for some reason.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
She’s earned the right to the position IMHO. Success has its rewards.
Immanentize
@raven: Well, it will be easier to prove theft of government property.
raven
@Immanentize: And premeditated intent to kidnap?
Ken
Why not “her aunt”? It may be some form of OCD, but I always try to figure out why phrases like that are used. Like, maybe the man married her biological aunt, so gets called uncle, but that doesn’t extend to the sister.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Right after the riot, there was a picture of an abandoned CP bag full of zipties and other stuff. So yes, the perps could have stumbled across them and said, “These might come in handy.”.
raven
Raskin “I’m not going to lose my son in 2020 and my country in 2021”.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Well you know how these lawyers are!
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I almost wish the DNC would seize control of Florida’s state party. After the 2020 debacle, which followed the 2018, 2016, 2014, 2012, etc., debacles, the state party ousted its consultant-driven leadership and installed new…consultant-driven leadership. We’ve got Rubio and DeSantis up for reelection in 2022!
raven
@Betty Cracker: I love your optimism that there will be a 2022!
Immanentize
@raven: the ties alone were never really enough for that charge. I think it will be posts, emails, maps, words they said inside like “where the fuck us nancy?” (While humorously standing in the Senate chamber). These things are called “non-act intent evidence.” Often all a prosecutor has is “acts” from which to prove a case — here, carrying flexcuffs is one “act.” But statements and confessions are super helpful in identifying what the goal of an act is.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: No. A mob takes on a life of it’s own, animalistic in thought. Premeditation is not possible. (I got caught in a riot once) This is not to say that there were not individuals or small groups that went in there for specific reasons, there probably were, but if those people were coherent I doubt very much they planned any kidnappings.
raven
@Immanentize: roger
Gin & Tonic
After last night’s thread, I am now being bombarded with ads for those ugly-ass shoes whose name I’m afraid even to type. I’m thinking of driving to Meffa to slash somebody’s tires.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ken: Her blood Aunt was married to her Uncle, so his sister was not her aunt.
raven
Tommy Raskin Memorial Fund for People and Animals
The Raskin family has created the Tommy Raskin Memorial Fund for People and Animals. This family fund will distribute all money raised on a semiannual basis to causes and charities championed and advanced by Tommy Raskin, such as Oxfam, Give Directly, the Helen Keller Institute, and Animal Outlook. The Fund has been launched with a contribution of $50,000.
Immanentize
@raven: Also, there is the son of the Brooklyn Judge wearing a bullet proof vest who said he just found it lying on the floor. I think a lot of stuff ended up available. Some of it came from rooms and lockers they broke into. Supposedly, they were looking for guns, but found gear and distributed it.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: What about useless mask ads?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
It does seem like the state organizations are our weak point, and it’s hurting us at the national level.
different-church-lady
Glad to see this post. Last night I was thinking, “I’m so old I can remember when all cops were rotten fascists.”
germy
RandomMonster
@Ken:
I imagine the writer is highlighting the fact that she isn’t a blood relative. ETA: Totally misread it. Never mind.debbie
@raven:
I’d bet they could find video or photo of the person holding the zip ties before entering the building.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: Meet me in Needham later? I’ve gotta go shoe shopping ….
germy
p.a.
The coming actions/inaction on the charge and prosecution front will possibly be a bigger ‘tell’ on how widespread the rot is than police/military/retired military actions up to now. Good thing several of regulars here are ‘esq’.
different-church-lady
@OzarkHillbilly: Huh. Not how my famly considered it. Which is why every family gathering I was introduced to seventeen “relatives” I hadn’t met before.
Betty Cracker
@germy: Soledad O’Brien is always dropping media truth bombs. Plus, she may have the coolest name EVER.
debbie
I love seeing the videos of the insurrectionists crying when being arrested or finding out they’re on no-fly lists. //
catclub
I thought it kind of amusing that a cop who was nearly crushed in a doorway by mob, used that expression.
Immanentize
@debbie: I think the Airforce dude did not bring the flexcuffs he was carrying, but “zip tie guy” and his mom did come prepared with a bunch. Hence the “conspiracy charges” against them if I am reading the initial charges right. Early reporting, though.
p.a.
@OzarkHillbilly: I was in a brief riot on a picket line 1989 and it really was like a switch flicked and we all (me included) lost it. Mounted cop then charged the crowd and people went flying. Horses be big!
debbie
@Immanentize:
Maybe so, but that shouldn’t serve to let him off the hook. I can’t imagine a current or former member of the military not knowing the consequences of stealing police property.
debbie
@germy:
I can’t imagine Nancy won’t be following up on Boebert’s nonsense.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ken:
@OzarkHillbilly:
@RandomMonster:
— Josephine Tey, Miss Pym Disposes
Gin & Tonic
Unfortunately with a by-line by the odious Ken Vogel, but an interesting story about John Dowd selling pardons. That seems … illegal?
Immanentize
@germy: DC cops understand their city. Capital Police do not. Did you see the Metro DC officer with the big spider web and four aces neck tattoo (clearly a vice duty regular). He was pulled from the crowd by some other insurrectionists after pleading for his life saying he had a wife and kids. He thought they were going to kill him.
They asked him what he had to say to the people who pulled him to safety and he said, “I guess, thank you? But fuck you for being there.”
Immanentize
@debbie: Oh, I agree. The Airforce officer is in DEEP shit. And not just for picking up flexcuffs.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I’m particularly pissed about Florida because IMO, they had a great candidate for the job — a woman with tons of experience who turned things around in the county where I used to live. That would have been change. This looks like more of the same. Oh well.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Why would you think that having been in the military would make people more aware of the consequences of stealing police property than anyone else?
debbie
@Immanentize:
I’ve been trying to figure out that tattoo ever since I saw the interview!
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I think state parties are more invisible because everyone focuses on the national agenda. That has improved us nationally but hurt us locally. I’m as guilty of it as anyone else.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t know. Why wouldn’t I?
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: I thought that Debbie was giving the officer a benefit of doubt.
But I’m willing to adopt your view that Airforce officers are dumb as rocks about property, law enforcement, criming, etc.
Immanentize
@debbie: me too. I know what it would mean in a prison — both ex-military and likely a heroin user. Never saw the one overlaid on the other before, tho.
Ever see the movie Rush? Such a great film. His thinness and tattoo made me think of Rush.
germy
raven
@Omnes Omnibus:
@debbie:
You should have seen the institutionalized theft of property in Korea and Vietnam. See William O Wooldridge, Top Soldier of the US Army
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Because you are assuming that they have a higher level of legal knowledge than they probably have. I was wondering on what you based that assumption.
MomSense
@Baud:
Locally the town democratic committee complained about OFA using the combined campaign office and having more volunteers, etc. They were accusing us of somehow stealing their volunteers, too. The town committee members were making a stink about it at an after campaign meeting until the combined campaign field organizer mentioned that the OFA volunteers made more local phone calls than the Democratic committee members. My personal experience was a lot of sour grapes because we outhustled the regulars.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Without even making Air force jokes, I would say that this is a place where you should assume then military experience gives a person any extra knowledge. So assume that they are just as dumb about what they were doing as Dances With Karens.
OzarkHillbilly
@p.a.: My only thought (and calling it a thought is being generous) was, “I want to live.” and I was capable of doing anything towards that goal. Mostly I was just trying to get the fuck out of there, but if somebody got in my way I was more than capable of doing whatever it took to get them out of my way, up to and including killing them. Fear will do that to a person.
raven
The Black Market in Vietnam
And this was 1966, it multiplied on steroids as the war dragged on.
OzarkHillbilly
@SiubhanDuinne: Heh. I like.
Immanentize
This picture brought the dust:
raven
So Tapper just said the second doses won’t be available because of the second shipment fubar. Phizer says it’s bullshit.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: Lobbying is as American as apple pie. It’s even in the constitution.
Immanentize
@raven: WHICH REMINDS ME!!!
I saw a paragraph somewhere that explained that the old ARVN flag being waived by some at the Capitol were supposed to signify their deep anti-communism feelings. Meant to tell you yesterday, but forgot.
Ken
@OzarkHillbilly: That would be the clause that says money is speech, so important in Citizens United?
Immanentize
Pet the pets, smooch the moochers, see ya later!
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize: Sweet photo. Thanks for posting.
Zinsky
I know this isn’t a “PC” (patriotically correct) viewpoint to hold but I blame the right-wing bent of many urban police departments on a decades-long glorification of the military and a society brutalized and emotionally stunted by years of endless war. The US has been at war basically continuously since WWII. A few breaks here and there, but essentially endless war.
Social psychologists and sociologists have noted the strong correlation between domestic violence, violent crime, child abuse and murders of passion in societies that are constantly at war. A recent article in that vein:
https://www.pnas.org/content/115/37/9181
Violent governments lead to violent populations.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@different-church-lady: At the small college I went to, there was a guy whose sister was my aunt because she’d married my mother’s brother. I’d never met him before. it was hard to explain to other people how we weren’t related despite his sister’s relationship to me.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not legal knowledge so much as a sense of distinguishing between right and wrong. I stand corrected.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Kelly’s Heroes, Crapgame.
debbie
@raven:
A true Republican before his time!
debbie
@Immanentize:
Now that his face and tattoo are all over the place, isn’t the officer’s career pretty much ended?
OzarkHillbilly
@Ken: The First amendment, where a person has the right to petition the government.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly. M&M Enterprises.
People have no idea how dee seated it was. In Korea if you wanted a part for something you one to the Ville where they had part warehouses that had everything cataloged and ready for purchase. If you went through channels the shit took forever. Ask me how I know.
raven
@Immanentize: Yea I saw that.
rikyrah
Love this
Hamilton fans will appreciate this ?
https://twitter.com/Fangirl31/status/1350603432785289218?s=20
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: No more or less than any other person.
The Thin Black Duke
@Immanentize: Ya should check out Savers sometimes. I’ve gotten over 50% of my footwear there.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: My old man told me tales of it from WWII and Korea.
danielx
@raven:
Corrupt supply sergeants? Say it ain’t so!
Of course, it does make you wonder how many Claymores and Barrett rifles have been “found to be defective and removed from inventory”.
Central Planning
@OzarkHillbilly: mine was in Vietnam. Says Catch-22 is a documentary.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Field expediency. They even have fun with it in the stupid right wing “The Green Berets”. People who could steal shit have been glamorized in the military for years.
Barbara
@raven:
It depends on what they are charged with. If the person is charged with breaking into the Capitol with the intent to kidnap or do violence to a person, then the fact that they found the cuffs would make it hard to use the cuffs as evidence of their intent prior to breaking into the building. However, if it turns out that that they opened up a container and took the cuffs or even if they picked them up and held on to them, that could be used as evidence to bolster statements or other indicia of their intent to do harm to members of Congress.
Frank Wilhoit
Elsewhere someone posted a comment that began “Cops are just people….” The rest of it made exactly the points that one would predict. My reply:
“No, police are not “just” people. They are unaccountable people, who have internalized (consciously or subconsciously) their unaccountability. And they have power, which even in theory is only ambiguously defined, and in practice is not defined at all.
These facts have very far-reaching consequences. Everyone — literally exactly everyone — is familiar with those consequences, even though many people deny them, most of whom do not even have incentives to do so.
It is no more informative to pick good apples than bad ones.
And the problem with allocating ‘… awards or penalties according to what they do’ is that by the time they’ve done it, it is too late.”
Omnes Omnibus
@danielx: FWIW supply sergeants don’t run the armories. Of course, there is no reason to assume that there aren’t corruptible armorers…. Although, the amount of paperwork is different.
Wyatt Salamanca
The New Yorker has shared some stunning new video from the violent storming of the Capitol on January 6th, captured by reporter Luke Mogelson.
h/t https://www.mediaite.com/news/where-the-fck-is-nancy-the-new-yorker-shares-stunning-new-capitol-mob-footage/
Frank Wilhoit
@Betty Cracker: I almost wish they would take over the Ohio party, but what can anyone do with a hole so deep that nothing thrown down it even echoes?
raven
@Central Planning: Many years ago I camped on the bay where they filmed it.
rikyrah
The Coronavirus Vaccine: After 11 Months of Tragedy and Fear, I’m Finally Able to Shed Tears of Joy | Vogue
https://www.vogue.com/article/coronavirus-vaccine-after-11-months-of-tragedy-and-fear-shedding-tears-of-joy
raven
@rikyrah: I hope she doesn’t read Ballon Juice, that’ll make her cry too.
danielx
@OzarkHillbilly:
And sometimes done for survival purposes. My dad was stationed in New Guinea at an evac hospital, what would later become known as a MASH. He and his compatriots found out in short order that the only thing wearing a red cross on your sleeve did was make you a better target for Japanese marksmen. After appealing for self defense weapons and being denied, they ended up stealing m1 carbines from a local ordnance depot.
ETA: I asked him about getting caught. He said they thought about that and the consensus was “what are they gonna do, send us to New Guinea?”. Which was and remains one of the most miserable places in the world.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: There are accounts of guys who were hit and being dusted off and dropped their weapon and got charged for it.
raven
@danielx: You can get an idea of when someone was inn Vietnam from their uniform. Early they wore white name tags name black, gold “US Army” ribbon and colored unit patches. They went to “subdued” pretty quickly. Also officers didn’t wear their bars in the bush.
Did the US Army in Vietnam wear full colour insignia?
Look, herd patches!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
It was literally the same as Benghazi.
Sloane Ranger
@Baud: I remember reading somewhere that the Capitol police keep a stash in a locked box in the gallery so they’re convenient if visitors are disruptive. I don’t know if that’s accurate but, even if it is and the rioters got them out of that box, the rioters must have committed criminal damage, at least, to get the box open.
Unless it was already open, which raises a whole new set of questions. And, if it was locked, did the rioters know what it contained when they forced it open, or just destroy it out of a general sense of wanting to rip everything up and then think, cool, I could use these?
rikyrah
Steeplejack (phone)
@Ken:
It does say “her in-law” in the second paragraph.
WhatsMyNym
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Your Uncle’s brother-in-law?
Barbara
I keep reading Josh Marshall retweeting himself about the possibility of mass pardons of those involved in the insurrection as a bar to investigation and prosecution. Citing Mussolini having done something similar. This is one of those times when I really do hate Twitter. Josh isn’t an attorney, much less an expert in constitutional pardon law and I really hate the fear mongering quality that comes with lobbing what seems like a very unexamined thought.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Immanentize:
The “inside” job suspicion would lead me to wonder about materiel that got planted either during the tours or by staff/capitol hill cops/members of Congress.
Barbara
@rikyrah: Another example of Twit-steria.
raven
@danielx: I took my dad to the opening of the Pacific Wing of the D-Day Museum (now the WW2 Museum) in New Orleans and he and two other guys discussed the misery of New Guinea over a coffee in the Cafe Du Monde!
debbie
@Wyatt Salamanca:
There it is: “I think Cruz would want us to do this.”
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: I’m pretty sure I told you about the time my old man’s crew stole a jeep from some pacific isle to replace the one their co-pilot lost?
rikyrah
rikyrah
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: Love it! They are probably still lighting that village with the generators we sold em.
RSA
@raven:
Kat, for example, a sympathetic character in All Quiet on the Western Front. That was more what I’ve heard called scrounging, though (by Bill Mauldin in Up Front).
MomSense
@Wyatt Salamanca:
They cannot be reasoned with. There is no unity to be found with them. They need to be prosecuted and held accountable.
OzarkHillbilly
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yep.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
“You make him a DEAL deal….”
raven
@RSA: yea, that’s what they called it until you got caught. The it was “misappropriation” and shit.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@WhatsMyNym: I had to think about that, but yes.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Interesting, the word is Trump blew off the My Pillow guy Friday, if true sounds like Trump decided Qanon has betrayed him. I wonder how those depsters will react with they figure that one out.
debbie
@debbie:
They’re so fucking stupid they think Cruz’s objection is his being a sell-out.
That horned dude sitting in Pence’s chair calling him a fucking traitor should be fed nothing but tater tots for the rest of his life.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@RSA: Radar O’Reilly wasn’t exactly stealing but he wasn’t going through channels either
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: The old man said the look on the supply sergeants face as he compared serial #s was priceless. He kept looking at the jeep, than his clipboard then the jeep… The numbers weren’t even close. He finally accepted it because the copilot kept saying, “What the fuck do I know? You guys gave it to me!”
Sloane Ranger
@raven: In the British Army a degree of “redistribution” is traditional. I remember watching a news report when we were deploying to either Afghanistan or Iraq where a senior officer said, with an amused and long suffering look on his face, that all the toilet rolls in the officers mess and quarters had disappeared!
OzarkHillbilly
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I see another viewing of Kelly’s Heroes in my very near future.
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah: Great!
I am sitting here so pissed today that instead of being able to revel in the joy of Biden-Harris and getting rid of Drumpf, we all have to be shivering in fear about his fucking army of assholes.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
The look on the captain’s face in the wrecked bank when he saw the Kilroy drawn on the wall was priceless – he knew….
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia: Amber Ruffin – Despite Everything That Happened, Let’s Unite
OzarkHillbilly
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Oddball, The greatest American Hero.
Matt McIrvin
@zhena gogolia: It’s psychological warfare.
Patricia Kayden
Yes please.
Matt McIrvin
@Zinsky: It’s endless war, but carried out by an increasingly small and set-apart fraction of the population.
I often think about how a lot of the reason Hitler was able to get so much and such effective paramilitary support was that they were all World War I veterans (Hitler included).
zhena gogolia
@mrmoshpotato:
Brilliant!
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: Howdy! Catching up from yesterday’s thread (and dodging the horror of white insurrectionists for a moment), I was wondering if your husband and I might have coincided in college. Are you willing to share his class year?
Subsole
@Immanentize: But…why an ARVN flag? They do remember who ended up owning Saigon, right?
I mean, why not use a ROK flag instead? Same signifier, less unpleasant historical connotations.
zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa:
I would be, but he wouldn’t! I probably shouldn’t have said anything. Maybe if we’re on a Zoom together again we can compare notes.
Matt McIrvin
@Subsole: Why use a Confederate battle flag? Lost causes are what really get their blood boiling.
sdhays
@Betty Cracker: Maybe Ivanka will take out Lil’ Marco for you. Of course, if the Florida Democratic Party continues its losing streak…
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: Sure, no worries. It would be funny if we actually “knew” each other. These networks are curious things.
Tenar Arha
@p.a.: I was essentially kettled once while the NYC police blocked off streets to redirect people when I went to see the Halloween Parade. This was just a jolly yet confused crowd, & I was squashed, lifted off my feet a couple times, & almost fell down as the crowd tried to shift around. It was utterly terrifying.
That one experience is probably why when I went to one demonstration & saw the bicycle & motorcycle cops pushing forward & blocking off egress, I crossed the street before they blocked it to get into the subway immediately.
JPL
@sdhays: OMG Imagine Rick Scott and Ivanka being your state senators.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Matt McIrvin:
I always like to pint out that Hitler, unlike Trump, actually served his country in uniform and did so with courage.
The Moar You Know
@danielx: Here in San Diego you could, with fairly minimal effort, find a Marine to sell you a box of grenades for a couple hundred bucks back in the late 1980s. That shit stopped fast when a crate of them turned up during a police investigation, having been used in a “drive-by grenade gang attack”.
Gin & Tonic
Navalny returning to Moscow. Guy has balls of steel.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
We were just talking about that yesterday.
zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa:
I know, that would be hilarious.
Subsole
@Matt McIrvin: Yeah. I suppose. Just seems weird to me. I mean, yeah it was a lost cause (in a far more honest sense than the Confederacy) but not in a way that reflects well on the principals involved… Dolchstosse by hippies, I guess??
I mean, shit. You may as well carry a 40’s era KMT flag.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: Not too bright, but big brass balls.
The Moar You Know
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I’ve read testimony from some of his fellow unit members. They hated him. Never complained, never would bitch about the officers, one of those absolutely gung-ho motherfuckers asking for more trenches to jump into. The kind of guy who reminds the teacher on Friday that they didn’t assign homework over the weekend.
The Army was so impressed with Herr Hitler that after the war was over they made him a spy on civilian political groups. Which is how he found the six-member club that ended up becoming the Nazi party.
sdhays
@rikyrah: No. The Democrats could elect a new Speaker. There would be a new Senate Pro-Tempore, and the Biden inauguration would still happen on January 20th. It was never going to make Donnie Dump “Monarch”.
If it had worked out that way, there’s even a decent chance on the Democrats and Republicans agreeing on a caretaker to elect as Speaker and temporary President and then impeach and convict Dump so fast he would have been gone in days.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
Very scary.
Gin & Tonic
@sdhays: I can’t for the life of me understand why Nance is considered an authority.
Matt McIrvin
@Subsole: American right-wingers love the KMT too. Witness “Unleash Chiang!” becoming this disconnected bit of mystical Orientalism.
Some notion of Dolchstoss is usually involved.
Baud
@sdhays:
The assumption is always that our side will just sit back and take whatever happens to us, because we don’t engage in daily displays of toxic masculinity.
Salty Sam
@raven: I had a neighbor who was a WWII vet, a Navy “Sea Bee” who built airstrips on Pacific islands. He said their specialty was “re-procurement” from other services and branches. He was especially proud of
stealingre-procuring a couple of Cat D-9’s from the Marines…Steeplejack
Enjoying little bits of happiness where I find them . . .
debbie
The Moar You Know
@Salty Sam: I have read that one of the major WWII mechanized battle groups came home with more vehicles that they started out with. The reason for this was real interesting; most other nation’s combatants, especially the Germans, had no civilian experience with automobiles or any kind of motor vehicle at all. Something like 1 in 50 troops for the Europeans. The Americans were 1 in 3. They’d grown up with cars and tractors, which was not the case for any other society in the world at that time.
And having grown up with them, they knew how to steal them.
Elizabelle
Phil Spector has died, aged 81.
I want Trump to follow the same trajectory. Indicted, convicted, years long prison sentence, die in prison. The prison photo, without the elaborate hair and vanity grooming.
Phil Spector had served about 11-12 years at his death for the shooting death of Lana Clarkson in 2003.
Trump has so much more blood and crime on his tiny hands.
Villago Delenda Est
@raven: Milo Minderbinder and the corruption in the ETO was not conjured up out of thin air, just taken to its logical conclusion.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: Nance is simply wrong.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Whatever else he did, this is amazing.
catclub
@Omnes Omnibus: Exactly. I bet these people in militias have already stolen LOTS of military equipment and…. no consequences at all.
gwangung
@Subsole: Folks DO realize that a lot of Vietnamese refugees were South Vietnamese military? And that there’s a strong Republican strain to them?
A fair number of Vietnamese Americans in that mob…and a lot of shame in the Asian American community about that
Here’s Viet Nguyen talking about this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/01/14/south-vietnam-flag-capitol-riot/
Jay
BruceFromOhio
@OzarkHillbilly:
Kos nailed this years ago.
Rita Katz sees it too.
Reaping what’s been sown, and we all get to share in the harvest.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jay: That’s an astounding number
raven
@The Moar You Know: Hmm, the Germans were pretty good at auto production.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh yeah. Phil Spector had it.
He has done more good for the world than
trumpever will. Sad that Phil went off the deep end; sadder still that a woman lost her life because of it.One can respect Phil more because, even unwillingly, he was repaying his debt to society for taking a life.
raven
@gwangung: You could fill the pacific ocean with what people DON’T know.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: The whole wall of sound.
raven
The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine Anymore
gwangung
@raven: True.
But folks should know that Vietnamese Americans are showing the same behavioral patterns as Florida Cuban Americans.
And I wasn’t surprised at all at those flags.
catclub
I just realized a great pun: Rita Katz’s organization is SITE : Search for
International Terrorist Entities vs SETI : Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
The SITE website is essentially still frozen in 2007.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: The beehive hair! I had forgotten all about that. Great song.
jeffreyw
The military dumped a lot of equipment into the ocean after WW2. Cheaper that way.
raven
@gwangung: I flew from Atlanta to LA with a young Vietnamese couple and they could have given a shit less about the ARVN. Fuck, when I was there most Vietnamese I knew didn’t either.
Amir Khalid
@raven:
For high-end automobiles. But WW2 ended before the Third Reich managed to deliver a single Volkswagen to the general public.
raven
@jeffreyw: Not to speak of choppers off the decks of carriers!
Kelly
https://twitter.com/LaF3mm3Nikita/status/1350564773625262084
raven
@Amir Khalid: They were busy.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: That sounds so good. Still sounds fresh.
gwangung
@raven: Younger generation way more liberal and way less attached to South Vietnam. They’re much more in line with other ethnic groups with more generations of US born
(which, coincidentally, was the reason why the term “Asian American” was created.
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus: Truth.
Gin & Tonic
@Elizabelle: And the NYT writes in his obit “was serving a prison sentence for the murder of a woman who was fatally shot in his home.” Are they paid by the word? Did they have an extra half-inch to fill? Why not “was serving a prison sentence for murdering a woman in his home.”
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Huh, I thought he had died years ago.
Ken
@Gin & Tonic: Or if they do need filler, give the woman’s name.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Amir Khalid:
Unlike Hitler’s insistence on and midwifery of the Volkswagen, Donald Trump failed to really encourage or facilitate the development of any useful consumer product.
cmorenc
@raven:
Nope, because the intent of the individuals carrying the zipties can be inferred from these facts:
Point is, evidence of the above circumstances is sufficient for a valid conviction, including the state of mind or intent element. The defendant(s) are of course permitted to try to show evidence they took the zipties from the cop in good faith thinking he was seeking their assistance in restraining arrested invaders – but the jury is neither bound nor likely to buy the story.
debbie
@raven:
And the others who made their own walls of sound.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@raven: I remember hearing on 1/6 that zip tie guy went straight to a locker where they keep them. He knew where they were stored.
raven
@debbie: posers
Betty Cracker
@JPL: Honestly, I don’t think Ivanker would be any worse than Rubio. Her family is more odious, obviously, but she and Micro are both power-mad, shape-shifting treason weasels who talk like semi-sentient PowerPoint presentation notes.
debbie
@raven:
??
cain
So Hodges admits that he is Antifa, huh?
Ohio Mom
Just watched the New Yorker reporter’s video of the insurrectionists.
Stunning how juvenile they are. The painted faces and chanting reminded me of rabid football fans. Though I don’t doubt the masterminds were careful to stay off camera while they did their dirty work.
I’m sure it has already been noted, apparently the revolution will be televised. From many angles.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
I can’t imagine there are a whole lot of ex-NYCers who have retired to FL who would support a Trump.
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
Judging by his performance in the Senate chamber, I don’t think that horned guy is much of an actor. No wonder he’s living with his mom.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: I know its early in the cycle, but do you know of any good potential Democratic Senate candidates?
oatler.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Well, there was the Thing from the 70s, also known as the Kubelwagen, a WW II German staff car.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: Piggy-backing on this same question: Do you think Val Demmings would be a good statewide candidate?
NotMax
@WaterGirl
FYI, 520 error interruption for an extended time (unsure how long it lasted*) began overnight about 4:40 a.m. blog time.
*Judging by timestamps on last comment before interruption and first comment after, more than an hour.
Elizabelle
@Gin & Tonic: Saw that. Like there was some question who shot Lana Clarkson (NYT: she had a name).
I think Phil might have gotten a lesser sentence if he’d stayed with “I shot her by accident” rather than claiming she was a suicide in his home and then dragging his victim through the mud.
Knew about the guns and isolation of Ronnie; had not realized he suffered from mental illness, especially in his later years.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@oatler.:
I saw one at Hilton Head last fall, visiting the father-in-law. Hadn’t seen one of the damned things in 30 years. It was clearly stock, which impressed me.
germy
WaterGirl
@NotMax: Thanks for letting me know. I got in touch with the developers.
Ohio Mom
debbie:
I imagine there is a page or two in the DSM that describes Viking Guy. He is a sad case though he undoubtably knows right from wrong.
I’ve said this before, I hope arresting the low-hanging fruit like Viking Guy does not distract the authorities from thoroughly rooting out the real organizers.
Not that all those whooping it up for the camera don’t deserve to face the consequences of what they did. And that their arrests won’t serve as a deterrent, because they surely will among the crowd of those boat owners acting out their mid-life crises by waving Trump flags.
germy
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I can remember one good-cop story over the last few years about a “existing while black” 911 call. As I recall, the cops were called because of the black guy who was looking over the house he’d just bought. Cops were a white male and black female. They did NOT shoot or even mace the home buyer, but instead chewed out the neighbor who had called them.
Hope there are more of those stories out there.
UncleEbeneezer
On De-Nazifying US Police, I think that most of the work needs to be done from the local level up. I don’t believe there’s a ton that a President or Congress can do about it. I found this excellent article with some scholarly suggested practices. I would urge people to reach out to their local Police/Mayors and ask what they do to screen/review potential and current officers, and push them to do more. It’s also worth trying to push for State laws (in Blue states) that would make this stuff mandatory for all depts, though many states have pretty strict Bill of Rights protections for LEOs so you’d definitely need a good lawyer to help draft a bill:
• Screening interview questions
• Tattoo checks
• Unconscious Bias Testing
• Deep Investigation (FBI background check)
• Current Officers screened for extreme racial views
• Internet and social media investigations should be performed periodically at random
• Monitor emails and texts
https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/28080-lcb231article2johnsonpdf
catclub
Jan 17 was going to be another big day for RW demonstrations. Is there any evidence that is still happening?
My impression is that there will be zero today and very few or none on Wednesday.
Another US case of locking barn door after the horse has knocked over the wall.
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
The more I hear about Q, the more my mind is boggled. Especially because all these people could have been suckered in by a game.
germy
Is it too late for Trump to give Phil Spector a posthumous pardon?
catclub
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: A standard 911 operator question should be:
“Would you have called me if the person you are watching was white?”
catclub
@debbie: That also sounds like all the suckers who lose money in Facebook ‘games’. Facebook knows how to find them and take em for as much as they can.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Stein was the guitarist in Blondie, who is I assume the “we”
Given what we know about him now, I find the concept of “diet” wine more surprising than Phil Spector answering the front door with a pistol in his hand
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I’ve seen this depicted in WW2 movies, where I think they call it “midnight requisition”.
There’s a Bill Mauldin cartoon with a couple GIs being surprised by a German guard as they are in the process of stealing booze from a warehouse marked “For Officers Only” in German. The guard is smiling and saying “Please go ahead, gentlemen. I wouldn’t dream of stopping you.”
germy
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I see good cop stories every night on the national TV news. They’re usually run right after a story about a cop murdering an innocent person. I guess they run the copaganda pieces immediately afterward for Balance.
My local news is usually full of good cop stories, too. I think the police union has a public relations officer who does nothing but feed video stories about dog rescues, etc., to media outlets.
My sinclair affiliate will often (in the middle of their local stories) run a story about cop pulling a woman out of a burning car, even if it happened six months ago on the other side of the country. It’s treated as Breaking News.
Kathleen
@Frank Wilhoit: Have you seen any of the ODP Executive Committee interviews with the 2 candidates for Director position? I saw one interview and it sounds like the 2 candidates understand the problems and have a plan to strengthen the party.
germy
Exactly 60 years ago, on 17th January 1961, the first prime minister of the newly-independent Democratic Republic of the Congo, 35-year-old Patrice Lumumba, was tortured and then assassinated by members of the Belgian Secret Service. Four months earlier, he had been ousted in a coup that was led by Joseph-Désiré Mobutu, his former Chief of Staff of the Army, and backed by Belgium, the United States, and the United Nations. Shortly before he was killed, Lumumba wrote the following letter to his wife, Pauline Opango:
https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/i-prefer-to-die-with-my-head-unbowed
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: & @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’ll be interesting to see who emerges. We need two great candidates, one for governor and one for the US Senate. I like Demings a lot for either job. Don’t know if she’s interested but I hope she is.
The only statewide elected Dem is Nikki Fried, currently ag commissioner. She’ll probably run for governor. I have reservations about her, but she may have a leg up on any competitors.
Gwen Graham, former US House rep and daughter of former Gov. Bob Graham, may also take another crack at the governorship. I voted for her in the 2018 primary, but she came in second to Gillum in a fairly crowded field. She’d be a good governor and has proven she can win in red areas, though the climate has changed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: as I recall, those were major plot lines on both the Phil Silvers Show (Sgt Bilko) and McHale’s Navy. And MASH, come to think of it, though Radar was a hustler, not a thief. Henry Blake might’ve looked the other way at some pilfering, but Colonel Sherman T Potter was Regular Army, by god!
Baud
@germy:
Too late for Phil.
J R in WV
@Gin & Tonic:
Maybe because he represents himself as an authority, and sounds and looks authoritative as he speaks? For some appearance is nearly everything!
different-church-lady
@Jay: That’s how cults of personality work.
hueyplong
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You could argue that the James Gardner character in The Great Escape is a part of that noble tradition.
germy
@Baud:
Phil has an eternity to wait for a posthumous pardon. I wonder if it’s too late for Trump, though. Maybe he can rush one through on Monday.
Kathleen
River Deep Mountain High – Ike and TinaTurner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Lehkou2Do
germy
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Also, I don’t think Trump will ever be Governor of California.
zhena gogolia
@hueyplong:
JAMES GARNER
PETER STRZOK
LETITIA JAMES
zhena gogolia
Deleted. Don’t want to start this conversation up again.
debbie
@Kathleen:
Done deal. Liz Walters will be the new chair.
germy
I still can’t imagine what the library would contain.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: I wonder how many lawyers are involved in setting up the fund-raising so he can skim enough to pay the interest on his loans.
And his criminal defense lawyers. Those would be different lawyers, I assume.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy: Comic books with half the pages torn out of them.
germy
Rudy will get paid no matter what.
germy
@OzarkHillbilly:
I didn’t know he had the attention span for comic books.
I envision his presidential library as a porta john in the middle of an empty field.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: I often think the people around trump are either smart lawyers who left no fingerprints on criminal stuff (Conway, Barr) or have paid smart lawyers to tell them where to be careful about what they touch with their own hands (Mnuchin, even JarVanka). OTOH, I cannot imagine that sloppy old drunk Rudi! could withstand a criminal investigation of his books.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: They’d better skim their money off first if they want to get paid.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy: Just like with old Playboys, he just looks at the pictures.
Kathleen
@debbie: THANK YOU! Did you see any of the video interviews? I thought Walters was stronger candidate. What did you think of Pepper? I wasn’t thrilled.
Side note – the Chair of the Hamilton County Democratic Party is a Black woman and she’s done a hell of a job.
glc
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I can’t even
ETA: “wine?”
Ken
Which will be about the most that can be afforded, after he finishes skimming that $2 billion library fund.
Just Chuck
@Sloane Ranger: I would imagine there’s cameras covering the gallery.
debbie
@Kathleen:
I thought Pepper was an improvement over Redfield, but he still wasn’t what the party needed. We need a networker, an organizer, and a cheerleader.
That Sherrod likes her is also significant.
ETA: I’d really like to see her being upfront and vocal about redistricting.
Warren Senders
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
One of my oldest friends is my Father’s Sister’s Ex-Husband’s Second-Wife’s Brother’s First-Wife’s Daughter. We describe ourselves as being “cousins by double divorce.”
It may be the only familial tie for which there is no dedicated kinship term in Hindi; I dunno.
Kathleen
@debbie: Yes! Sherrod’s support is a huge plus.
Ruckus
@debbie:
There are all kinds of people in the military. Smart, and not. Loyal, and not. Selfless, and not. Selfish, and not. And on, and on, and on. Just like in every other walk of life. There is nothing special that the military instills in you, but it can bring out the good, and the bad that is already there. It is a microcosm of society at large, not a special place to become a better or worse human being, even though that happens all the time. It often asks people to do things they wouldn’t otherwise do, it sometimes has to restrict people from doing things that they would do if not stopped – and will do when no longer in the military. It’s life, with structure and rules different than outside the military. It’s life, with people the same as outside the military. Some stay the same, some get better and some get worse from the experience.
Low Key Swagger
I’ll put this here knowing this thread is likely dead. I am ex-military, former police. The academy I attended to become P.O.S.T. certified made my Army infantry training seem like recess at elementary school. Back then, it was referred to as full stress. Very very physically and mentally demanding. Some would paramilitary even. The most insidious thing they do is instill not just fear…but terror into you, because each and every encounter with the public could be your last. You are fearful from day one. You are taught that the lives of you and your fellow officers was all that mattered. Yes, there was rampant racism, but back then, it wasn’t out in the open. In contrast, my son is about to enter the academy, and it’s curriculum and overall environment looks to be a walk in the park.
Zinsky
@germy: I’m sure the Trump presidential library will have the world’s most extensive collection of Stormy Daniel’s porn movies, Kid Rock and Ted Nugent albums and 8-tracks and soiled bedsheets from son Diaper Don’s collection of classic bedwetting episodes. They could have interactive games where you match up one of 18 women’s pictures to the location where Trump sexually assaulted them and Kim Jong Un’s love letters to The Donald.
Hey, and they could have endless loops playing of Donald Trump saying, “You’re fired!” from The Apprentice.
It sounds like one of the circles of Hell from Dante’s Inferno.
debbie
@Ruckus:
So I’ve learned today, thanks. Guess I fell for those recruiting ads. ??♀️
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
l hate to say this, because it sounds so, horrible, but I’m glad my parents were too old, that they lived out their natural lives well before Covid. My dad lived most of the last decade of his life in care homes, because of Alzheimers. Mom only spent the last year or so in a care home and lived 94 yrs 364 days. People my age or older grew up and lived with the fear of many diseases that crippled or worse because there were not vaccines for them. And even people half my age still lived with chicken pox and have the fun of shingles, for which there is now an effective vaccine, of course after I had a go round. Fun times. It makes the concept that so many think Covid is a lark, something to live through, far, far more infuriating for their stupidity. But I guess that they, and a lot of their families didn’t have to see all that or have forgotten all that, or that they lived through it unscathed so they can get through this as well. I knew/know 4 people with polio, and 3 lived within a mile and one about 5 miles away. Life is different today, and yet, not so different. We know more and yet many are even more ignorant. And something new to have experienced, an insurrection and attempted overthrowing of our government, and all to keep an absolutely worse than useless ass as a worse than useless president because of our national illness – racism. Where is the vaccine for that?
There go two miscreants
Same here. My father could have withstood the isolation — he always was a sit-around-and-read kind of guy, although he had hobbies as well. But we would have worried all the time. My mother could never have put up with it — she had to get out of the house/apartment. It would have driven her nuts!
Ruckus
@debbie:
Lots of people did, and still do, and even during a war, which was shown on TV.
Ruckus
@Sloane Ranger:
They did recon and that was led by members of the legislature. They had prior knowledge. Not all of them, but enough of them to be an issue.
Aleta
Matt McIrvin
@Warren Senders: And here I was trying to figure out what my mother-in-law’s wife’s grandnephew is to me. “Some kind of distant cousin by marriage” is probably the best I can do.
Matt McIrvin
@There go two miscreants: My parents seem to be dealing all right. But my mother is infuriated by people she knows not taking the virus seriously, even after they’ve lost friends to it.
Gravenstone
@germy: It’s a stretch to claim My Pillow guy is from the pillow industry. More like bag of rocks industry.
ballerat
@OzarkHillbilly: Abandoned or placed?
That might seem far-fetched if only we didn’t know a number of Capitol police and very likely others on the inside actively supported and aided the insurrectionists.