I’ve got a bit of work on, sadly, so I can’t watch the impeachment coverage gavel to gavel. The piece that’s interesting to me is the revelations about Republicans who were minutes or seconds from death on 1/6.
Romney being saved by Officer Goodman is one of those “you wouldn’t believe it if it was in a novel” moments, and, for whatever you want to say about Mitt, he at least is going to vote (again) to convict, and he personally thanked Goodman yesterday. The same video shows how close they got to Pence, and also how the mob was chanting “Hang Mike Pence”. Then, there’s this:
This timeline is INCREDIBLY damning
Trump speaks to Tuberville around 2
Tuberville tells him Pence is being evacuated
So now Trump KNOWS Pence is in danger
THEN he tweets to his followers that Pence failed them
He knowingly and purposely endangered Pence#TrumpIsGuilty pic.twitter.com/skcBn1jRvv
— Adam Cohen Lawyers for Good Government #DemCast (@axidentaliberal) February 11, 2021
Still, Pence did more-or-less nothing after 1/6. At a minimum, Trump left him for dead, and more likely, Trump incited the mob to find and kill him (and some of his family). My most basic human reaction to this is, what a fucking chickenshit. Trump tried to kill him, he had the power and means to punish Trump (the 25th Amendment), and he did not a goddamn thing. Maybe he thinks that he has a future in Republican politics, but it’s clear that he was no more than an easily replaceable accessory, like Ivanka’s handbag.
zhena gogolia
Their behavior (Pence, all the Repubs who will vote to acquit) is now beyond human comprehensibility. No political calculus can explain this. After yesterday’s presentation, how could any of them vote to acquit?
germy
Mother was pissed off at Pence when Trump won. She must be livid now.
Hildebrand
I am utterly mystified by Pence’s silence. He is finished in politics (he was finished by the time Trump fished him out of obscurity), so why not go out with a clear conscience? Why not take Trump down? What, he is worried that people are going to hate him, threaten him – they wanted to kill him on January 6th!
I would love if they called just one witness – Pence.
beef
I keep seeing Twitter discussions about the Fairness Doctrine not applying to cable. Maybe that’s true. Maybe Fox is safe. But this doesn’t need to be the end of the discussion. Because guess what the Fairness Doctrine can and should apply to?
AM radio.
And AM radio is a much bigger part of the problem than a lot of people think. We see Fox because we watch TV. But we don’t listen to radio much, so we miss out on what’s happening. It’s a cesspool, and its audience is big. More people listen to AM radio than read a Sunday paper. More people listen to Hannity on the radio than listen to NPR staples like All Things Considered.
It’s time to give it a long hard look.
Hildebrand
@zhena gogolia: My question is why do these people think Trump wouldn’t turn on them in a second, aim the mob at them in an instant? If Trump got it into his head to run again, and he knew Cruz and Hawley were his main competitors, he would incite the mob against them in a heartbeat. How can they not see that Trump’s only allegiance is to himself?
dmsilev
@zhena gogolia: It’s amazing, isn’t it? And not in a good way.
Also, I hope the Democratic Senators are taking good note of their colleagues’ attitude. How can you even think of the possibility of bipartisanship with a group of people who literally are ok with the idea of inciting a mob that nearly got you and them killed?
JPL
@Hildebrand: Pence would not appear, because he still wants to run for president. He needs the proud boys.
Mallard Filmore
At what time was it known to TV, and Trump, that the Senators and Congress People were all safe?
2021-01-06 ??:??pm TV reports that Congress People are known safe
2021-01-06 4:17pm Trump tweets Go Home
2021-01-06 5:06pm Mr Shaman gives an interview on the Capitol steps that the insurrection is over and he is going home.
Did Trump wait until he knew there would be no hostages or executions?
Betty
Maybe Pence is still afraid for his life and is lying low?
@dmsilev:
Hildebrand
@JPL: But he doesn’t have them. Not in any timeline will the hard-core militia types back Pence. How can he not know that they see him in the same way they see Pelosi?
Omnes Omnibus
@Hildebrand:
My understanding is that he is not very bright.
p.a.
Well they’re craven. They think (rightly or wrongly) that without the tRumpturds they will 1) lose their seats and/or 2) be in actual physical danger from opposing tRump.
The anti-tTump Rethug electeds are either actually brave enough to face the primary election consequences or have made the political calculation that opposition now is a winner. I won’t give any of them enough credit thinking they are honoring their oaths of office.
If/when the craven think the political calculation favors dumping tRump they will, except for the truly stupid like Greene.
rikyrah
Not only tried to kill him, but, his wife and child.
How pathetic.
And, never forget, that the National Guard troops were called in by PENCE
NOT by Dolt45.
PENCE.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
Hard to believe power means more than life to these pro-life proponents. //
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Hildebrand: Like the old story goes, maybe the horse will learn to sing? I mean, Trump still has command of the Southern Strategy voters and can still kneecap any Republican in Congress who crosses him, so maybe there’s a calculation that a “miracle” will happen and either Trump will reward them, or Trump will fall despite them rather than because of them and they can step into the void he leaves and claim those juicy, political-life-preserving Southern Strategy voters.
Also, the political calculus has absolutely changed: now, they don’t only have to worry about the end of their political careers. Now, they have to worry that Trump will – once again – send an armed mob to kill them. The Democrats in government wouldn’t even consider doing that, so the Republicans aren’t as viscerally afraid of the Democrats as they are of Trump and the mob.
This is what the Republicans have done to our country.
Cervantes
Yeah well it doesn’t matter there won’t be more than six Republican votes to convict. The whole party is in Crazytown.
raven
@Betty: He signed one of them agreements.
taumaturgo
One could see this syndrome in abused children. When children abused by their parents are asked, “do you know why they would hurt you like this?” Some would reply, “because they love me.” The MAGA types are emotionally underdeveloped and they love the abuser -Trump- and if Trump turns on them they believe the abuse is normal and deserved. They unable or unwilling to recognized that anything is wrong.
cmorenc
@Hildebrand:
Most of the R Senators inclined to acquit are well-aware of both the potential physical danger, as well as just the political risk, of crossing Trump and his fanatical followers, and many of them are simply too chickenshit to defy them. If the Senate impeachment vote was anonymous, it’s likely there would be at least 17 R votes to convict, even though many others would still be beyond reach no matter what.
karen marie
@zhena gogolia: The conventional wisdom seems to be coalescing around “Dems present emotional argument.”
Facts that are upsetting should not be considered, so Republicans are home free!
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: When you’re a sociopath, anything is possible.
Roger Moore
@zhena gogolia:
The behavior of the Republicans makes perfect sense. They just aren’t acting like a political party anymore; they’re behaving exactly like members of a cult. They make a lot more sense when you lump them with the People’s Temple, Heaven’s Gate, or Branch Davidians than with the Republican party of years past.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Romney, it really says a lot the guy we mocked as robot has more humanity in him than the rest of the Republican party.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@beef:
And both are a big fat waste of time.
Per above, Pence was not called Senator Dence for nothing. He is an incredibly dim bulb.
Benw
The GQP is anti-democracy. Acquittal will be one more time they are telling us they will absolutely attempt this again, in 2024. They are incredibly dangerous
Another Scott
Pence’s behavior since Donnie started attacking him can probably be explained by his new job(s):
He’s set as long as he doesn’t rock the boat. His paycheck depends on him not doing so.
Cheers,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@JPL: I think you’re right. Pence is finished in Republican politics, thanks to Trump, but he’s too dumb to know it.
Imagine starting every sentence with the introductory clause “under President Trump’s exceptional leadership” for four years, and this is the thanks you get! Hahaha! Too bad he’s too dim to feel the insult.
KenK
@JPL: @#7 “Pence would not appear, because he still wants to run for president. He needs the proud boys.”
Yeah, and people in hell want ice water. One is just as likely as the other.
Msb
The impeachment trial makes clear, if people hadn’t noticed before, that trump was trying to kill the 2 closest Constitutional successors, the VP and Speaker, as well as stop the certification of the election.
Wyatt Salamanca
Ivanka’s handbags have more backbone than Mike Pence.
patrick II
@beef:
Theoritically, television was able to be managed to a degree by the government for the public good because it used public bandwidth technically available to all, but reserved for those deemed useful and who would follow the rules.
As you say, radio should be under the fair use constraints too. I think it was, wasn’t it? I don’t remember any Limbaughs before Reagan’s lifting of fair use.
Cable also uses public lands to run their cables across and Satellite relays with reserved public frequencies, and I would assert that if the doctrine applies to tv and radio the same should apply to cable for the same reason.
All of that is moot, of course, with this Supreme Court. There is no such thing as the public good, especially in conflict with profit and Republican advantage.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia:
Consider how many of these people are mediocrities who through unjustified ambition and dumb luck found themselves in positions of great power (if not as great as they imagine) and the whole cult of the Senate thing: Susan Collins latched herself on to William Cohen and stumbled into his seat; Marco Rubio was a nice-looking young man willing and able to play the Cuban card in Florida during a conservative cultural backlash; I don’t know much about Roy Blunt or Missouri but everything about him screams time-serving ward-heeler who got lucky in his timing and primary opponents. They think if they can just outlast trump, wait for those cheeseburgers dipped in mayonnaise to do their thing, they can go back to being American cardinals.
Rubio in particular: fairly young, limitlessly ambitious and about to be Ivanka’d into a life of a semi-prestigious law school gig and hoping somebody at CNN notices how creepy Rick Santorum is. He really thought he was going to be President, once.
Jeffro
It is so obvious, and so incredible, that it’s hard to process. A U.S. president sent a violent mob to stop the certification of an election/his loss and potentially/probably kill his own vice-president and the Speaker of the House.
stacib
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: Why would they worry about armed mobs? Aren’t they the “good guys with guns” who can stop all the bad guys? Surely, they are fully capable of protecting the homestead, and with their guns, there should be nothing to fear. //
Doc Sardonic
@Omnes Omnibus: He is not. I know someone you had to deal with him when he was governor of Indiana. When He was picked for VP I asked them them what we were getting as the person a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I was told we would be better off with a bag of hammers, he only does what he is told is correct or what the evangelicals have a hard on about.
Another Scott
@patrick II: +1
Just about any form of mass communication uses the public airwaves in some form or other. There are good reasons to have something like a Fairness Doctrine 2.0 apply, but figuring out a way to do it would be difficult. Difficult but not impossible.
But the courts are the rub.
A faster way is public boycotts. Vote with your dollars as well as on the ballot. Shunning is powerful when enough people do it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ksmiami
@zhena gogolia: the Republican Party is a disease
WaterGirl
@Msb: The next successor after those two was in the chambers, as well.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I also think that’s the lesson the Democrats took from this; they can just walk all over the GOP as long as they talk nicely in public.
Gravenstone
It occurred to me this morning that we’re actually fortunate that Twitter had not yet banned Trump on 1/6. Because his timeline is an excellent corroboration of his deep involvement and responsibility for the insurrection. Both as it was being planned and in the moment. Not that the Republican co-conspirators will act against him.
What we may never know is whether the assault of 1/6 would have actually occurred had thet banned him earlier. I suspect yes, simply because there were so many others repeating and amplifying his grievances.
Redshift
@Another Scott:
This. They’re not just thinking about avoiding a primary challenge to stay in office in a gerrymandered district or ambitions for higher office, they’re thinking about prospects for cashing in on wingnut welfare if they stick with the party line.
Another of the million ways that right-wing billionaires are destroying democracy. They need to be taxed out of existence.
Ksmiami
@Benw: exactly so do we turn them into ash? I mean that’s where we are headed so I’d rather be proactively planning
Cacti
The Washington (com)Post published an article yesterday on the “economic anxiety” of the insurrectionists.
Yep. They’re still trying to pretend that Trumpism isn’t a white supremacist revanchist movement.
Mother fuckers. smh
Sure Lurkalot
@Roger Moore: There’s an article over at Rude Pundit that posits that young Democrats have no problem seeing Republicans as the death cult they truly are because that’s all they have seen in their experience. Olds have memories of a party that had principles, however misguided those memories are.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That whole Politico article on Pence underscores this point. A man whose nickname is “Dense” , obvious the sub in a hilariously un-self aware BDSM relationship with his own wife, is being hailed as a scholar and great thinker of the American Right. They are being rewarded for being spinless nothings.
A Ghost to Most
Pence is trying to protect his new Heritage Foundation gig. No deep meaning, just more selfishness.
West of the Rockies
@beef:
I’ve been saying here repeatedly that AM rage radio has been recruiting and creating 1/6 seditionists for decades. I think Limbaugh and Gingrich were two points on a compass, enabling and accelerating hatred. They created the conditions for Hannity, Palin, Trump. MTG, etc.
geg6
@JPL:
The Proud Boys were trying to kill him. If he thinks they are going to vote for him, he’s even more stupid than his reputation as the prototype for Louis Gohmert.
RandomMonster
When things don’t add up, you have to wonder if someone, somewhere, has something on Mike Pence.
danielx
@Doc Sardonic:
You are correct, as those of us who had the misfortune of of being his constituents are all too well aware. He has a certain amount of political shrewdness but he’s dumber than a barrel of hair. He took the VP slot when offered because he was well aware than he was going to be hammered into the ground like a tent stake in the next gubernatorial election. Naturally, his reward was to be damn near murdered at the hands of Trump’s minions after four years of revolting servility.
germy
They pay good money for their thinkers. And their scholars know what their job is: to promote the ideas of their bosses.
It wasn’t all that long ago that Pence was writing editorials about cigarettes not causing cancer. Someone wanted to use Pence and his credentials to put that idea out.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: He was called “Congressman Dense” for a reason.
Villago Delenda Est
@West of the Rockies: In the runup to the 1994 midterms, Gingrich declared war on the idea of a respectful polity.
And here we are today.
West of the Rockies
@Ksmiami:
Yes, I wonder, too, how much attrition we will see. Supposedly, tens of thousands have unregistered as Republicans nationwide. That takes a bit of effort. Will it stick? Will LE begin (at least in discernable numbers) to drift away from lockstep support of the QOP? Stay tuned to this same Bat Channel…
Doc Sardonic
@Sure Lurkalot: I thought about that a lot after reading the stories that came out about the Congressional staffers barricading offices, hiding under desks and conference tables etc. I brought to mind my first and second grade years doing the “duck and cover to avoid the nuclear blast”. The difference is that is a distant, dim memory for me, those staffers mostly were in school during and after Columbine and prepping for a mass shooting instance became ingrained and acting to the mob storming the Capital was instinctive. Same with our memories of Nixon and Republicans having the principles to force his resignation. Their world and experience dealing with Republicans and these events are current, ours are basically a nostalgic view of the past and many cannot process that the past is gone, like dusk to dawn*, and principled Republicans are becoming almost extinct.
credit to Mr. Tyler
RandomMonster
I don’t think he needed Twitter to organize 1/6. He needed his cult to show up, and then he needed to incite them to riot.
CaseyL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: and Upton Sinclair (“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”) nailed it.
You have a bunch of mental and moral nullities who lucked into the best gig they will ever have, and need to keep it going.
Also, the Wingnut welfare eco-system has been around long enough now to turn out alleged adults who have never ventured beyond it, so they’ve been thoroughly inculcated from the start that government exists only to serve the interests of their sponsors, whether theocratic or oligarchic (or both).
patrick II
Pence confuses me. I have defended him here before and after the vote count on Jan 6 because I always thought overturning the election would be a bridge too far for him. I was right — and he also was effectively acting president without invoking the 25th for a couple of weeks, so kudos. But that’s it. He has done nothing else, even in the face of being put on Trump’s hit list and attempted murder. As others have stated, he has no future in Trump’s party as long as it remains Trump’s party. His only real chance (which is still next to zero) is to go hard at Trump, but he won’t do it. Maybe it wasn’t principle at all, but he thought if Biden still became president he would go to jail if his actions were too overt.
Whatever, in the end, for whatever reason, he did what was necessary.
patrick II
I posted this a couple of days ago, but will again.
Why the hell hasn’t Alex Jones been arrested on multiple charges?
Villago Delenda Est
@Another Scott: The cable networks rely on satellites to distribute their content. Via the electro-magnetic spectrum. The same electro-magnetic spectrum that over the air teevee uses.Regulate them on that basis. They’re using the public airwaves to distribute their content.
geg6
@patrick II:
I’m willing to bet it was Mother who forced him to do the right thing. I think Mother had already had enough long before the mob tried to kill her.
Baud
RA
@patrick II: There were Limbaughs on radio even during the time of the Fairness Doctrine but there were many liberal talkers too. I remember as a teen in the 60s getting infuriated at Joe Pyne when I would hear his garbage. Right wing radio bloomed like dandelions in June after they dumped the Fairness Doctrine.
Baud
geg6
@Baud:
Seems like every day, he wraps up a present and just quietly leaves it there where we’ll find it and be surprised and pleased. Can’t tell you how comforting that is after the last four years.
feebog
While the Rubes out there may be convinced Trump will be back in 2024, Cruz, Hawley, Rubio and the rest of hopeful candidates for the Republican nomination are playing a different game. They know there is a rabid and sizable base who essentially worship Trump as their cult leader. They are not going to write off that chunk of votes by convicting Trump of insurrection. They are betting on Letica James, Cy Vance and now the Fulton County DA to come through for them. They know there was no steal and Biden’s election was legitimate, but counting on the legal system to take Trump out for them and open the door to the nomination.
StringOnAStick
@West of the Rockies: Exactly right. I remember when Rush showed up on the scene because of the impacts he had on my RW S. Baptist sister, and on my dad who did lots of highway miles for his career. It was a brilliant masterstroke for the RW financiers to go for a radio audience because of who they could reach, and they caught every persuadable one-truck contractor up through his boss and anyone else who has a job that involves lots of time in vehicles.
Where we used to live we had a neighbor (retired corrections officer) who played RW radio loudly every time he was working in his yard, and he was a yard obsessive so it made working in our yard a continuous audio assault. I am so thankful in many, many ways that we moved and especially that we landed in a friendly neighborhood filled with Love is Love and Biden-Harris signs.
skerry
@rikyrah: Pence’s brother, Greg Pence (R-IN), voted against impeachment. He was with Mike Pence during the insurrection.
Poe Larity
If Pence really wants to fund a foundation, he should take his master up on that and sell tickets.
Doc Sardonic
@geg6: I am sure Mother is reminding him on an hourly basis of his failings. I remember reporting at some point either after the election or inauguration of her telling him “you got what you wanted now leave me alone”.
Gravenstone
@Baud: A possible indication that Trump faces charges once the impeachment farce comes to its preordained conclusion? One can hope…
J R in WV
@patrick II:
I agree with you, completely~!!~
Reagan did more damage to American freedom and government than anyone since the Civil War until now, with Trump.
Of course, without Reagan’s tearing at the public mechanism of government, Trump couldn’t have been elected either. Reagan was owned and operated by right wing monsters, just as Trump has been.
geg6
@Doc Sardonic:
That was just after the election and exactly why I suspect it was Mother’s prodding him that made him do the right thing.
Ivan X
@beef: So, funny story, in the NYC market, one of the large local AM radio cesspools is WABC 77. Only I didn’t know it was a cesspool. I just knew it was a talk radio station and I didn’t listen to it. I didn’t know who was on it or anything.
About ten years ago they approached my company about running ads on their station, and we were in a growth mode, so we entertained the idea. They even went ahead and mocked up a sample ad, and they did a solid job, quoted reasonable rates, and we were intrigued.
Then they started talking to us about when during the day we wanted to run our ad, and they showed us their lineup, and despite a few innocuous hours of the day, it was otherwise full of horrors, with Hannity, and Mark Levin, and other right-wing all-stars. My partner and I agreed that we just couldn’t give money to an engine of that much wrongness, even if it were during one of the less offensive hosts’ shows.
The station was pissed, too, since we were all on the garden path, and then we’re like, “Look, we were on board, but we just can’t do this, we don’t believe in what you’re doing.” They said, “It’s just business! Others do it!” But we couldn’t. Still one of the better decisions I think I’ve made over the years.
cain
@geg6:
Considering conservatives believe he betrayed Trump – he’s not going to be doing anything. I suspect Mother is sick of politics at this point given that it almost lead to both of them getting murdered.
citizen dave
@StringOnAStick: “he was a yard obsessive so it made working in our yard a continuous audio assault.”
Oh my, there is no way I would not fight back with EXTREME audio assault, perhaps with some Violent Femmes, Ramones, Clash and of course Dead Kennedys. I recall once a few years ago I pulled up to the costco gas pumps and some jackass had Rush cranked. It took much resolve to not engage.
When I checked on Rush yesterday (is he dead yet? He hasn’t been on his show since Feb 2), somewhere I read that his mastermind offered the show at the start for free to the stations, only keeping 4 minutes of air for the national commercials.
germy
I remember hearing her on public radio back in the day, saying what a great country this is. She had just been hired at some conservative think tank or another. Such a land of opportunity!
CaseyL
@cain: But if they’d been killed, they would instantly have been elevate to the Elect in Heaven, so maybe almost-being-killed isn’t the disincentive it would otherwise have been.
citizen dave
@skerry: I weep for my lifelong state of residence. To quote Mr. Dylan: I was born here and I’ll die here. Against my will.
different-church-lady
@danielx:
I think he might actually be a barrel of hair.
gvg
I have one point I want to defend Pence on. He didn’t really have the power to invoke the 25th. That power only occurs if the majority of the cabinet level heads supports it, and they have to maintain the support for a long enough time while the nutters are threatening their families and their own party doesn’t support them. Most of them have no security guards. If you move against the King, you can’t miss. In these circumstances Pence cannot say anything unless he knows he has the support. If he speaks to someone and they disagree and run to the President, everything blows up. This is a pretty backstabbing group and the last ones in power were worse than the ones Trump started with. I just don’t see anyway he could have successfully invoked the 25th. This amendment does not turn out to be useful in this real situation. It has actually turned out to be useful for trusting relationships and surgery in life. That wasn’t the way the amendment was invisioned, but Trump isn’t exactly what the writers expected either.Anyway, don’t blame Pence for that.
West of the Rockies
@Cacti:
Did you read the article? It was more than a Cletus safari. I took away the point that the seditionists were (many of them) self-centered people who had means and opportunity and fucked it up. What they lack is self-insight and a sense of personal responsibility. It was not an especially sympathetic take.
citizen dave
@Cacti: “The Washington (com)Post published an article yesterday on the “economic anxiety” of the insurrectionists.”
What in the actual F? Some/many of these people FLEW to DC, on commercial and private planes. It is still a big deal for me to spend my own money on a place ticket. I would hazard to guess a substantial portion of americans have not flown commercially.
StringOnAStick
@citizen dave: I thought about a reverse audio assault, and then I heard how he’d punched the prior neighbor for getting a survey so they could put up a fence between their houses; that neighbor immediately sold and moved because as a retiree from the sheriff’s office, the creep was given kid glove treatment over that assault. He got into a “let’s show each other our guns now that we’re in a shouting match” with another neighbor a couple of years later so he’s an armed nut too. This guy has been encroaching on city land (there was official open space behind our houses there) and each neighbor forever. Maybe now is a good time to rat him out to the city since we no longer live there.
Redshift
@patrick II: I don’t give any credit for Pence not overturning the election on January 6 because he had no power to do so. He could have caused a bunch of consternation and chaos and made the Big Lie worse, but for the actual outcome it would have been as much of a fart in a windstorm as Trumps braying “we totally won in a landslide.”
This wasn’t a case of violating norms that we rely on to make things work, like so much else, it’s about where the actual decision lies, and it’s not in the ceremony. La La Land didn’t win Best Picture just because Warren Beatty announced it.
J R in WV
@West of the Rockies:
Me too, also. They came off as people who had every chance to succeed, yet blew it to some degree in the recent past. Then they joined an illegal movement, took video of their participation in an insurrection and violent riot in one of the most closely observed environments in the world.
Talk about a recipe for failure!
Think about the guy who wore a jacket with his business name, and his own name, to a riot… whoo, that’s really dumb!
Amir Khalid
@germy:
She is also an anti-Islam Muslim. I don’t resent her for that; she’s a deeply strange person, and I recognise it as part of her strangeness.
Redshift
@citizen dave:
One of the weaknesses of AM radio — it’s pretty simple to build a short-range jamming device for a particular frequency. There are probably plans easily available on the internet. Way back in high school, a friend was taking a shop class full of teenage boys who would play a terrible radio station at high volume. He built a little pocket-size circuit that would make the radio emit horrible squeals, and they eventually decided it was broken and gave up.
(Of course, these days it may well be satellite radio, in which case it’s not so easy.)
artem1s
I think they need to ask Pence straight up why he called out reinforcements if he didn’t think Trump had abdicated his role as CIF. And if Trump really meant what he said at the rally about a peaceful protest why was it left to the VP to call out reinforcements for the DC and Capitol police to enforce that peace?
I’m pretty sure Pence will refuse to appear as well, but yes, he is the one witness that the Christian Right needs to see recount his experiences that day and the following days while Trump was in hiding. They need to see what distain the McConnel’s, Hawley’s and Cruz’ have for the useful idiot puppet that Trump and the GOP chose to use to con them with. How the GOP leadership openly plotted to assassinate him and whether that was worth getting Barret on the court.
Brachiator
Pence knows this. All other Republican leaders know this.
And yet they still protect Trump, and seem to be willing to want to leave him able to make another run at the presidency. They are also willing to let Trump continue to recruit and to energize his craziest supporters.
Yep. A bona fide Death Cult.
skerry
@citizen dave: I grew up in central Indiana. Luckily, I was able to escape after college. Family still there.
MisterForkbeard
@Mallard Filmore: I’m late to this thread, but: Yes. Trump clearly waited until the insurrection had failed.
He waited over two hours to say anything. And he waited until after the national guard was deployed and the key congressfolk had been successfully evacuated.
The timeline is incredibly damning.
Another Scott
@Redshift: +1
I’m reminded of the counterpoint (maybe from Kay?) to the trope that CEOs deserve giant stock bonuses because they make so much money for their shareholders.
“They get paid a salary. It’s their job. They should do their job.”
Pence did his job. It’s nothing extraordinary to do his job – billions of people do their jobs every day.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@beef:
These comparisons are interesting. And also hide another large problem and shift in behavior. Newspapers are dying. Soon, you might have nothing but the NY Times, USA Today and maybe Washington Post as national newspapers, and most other dailies reduced to vestigial Internet media sites.
Public radio is still largely a niche boutique product, so saying that more people listen to Hannity is not saying much.
And radio is dying as well. Radio stations like iHeart media is desperately trying to get a lot of their audience to use apps, but increasingly I find that I hear people under age 30 say that they simply do not watch conventional TV or listen to radio at all. My neice and nephew are in their early 20s, and I do not think that they have ever owned, let alone listened to a radio in the house. They listen to radio sometimes in their cars, but only to music stations.
Still, the marketing research companies claim that 90 percent of Americans listen to radio. But one organization defined this as listening to even one second of radio a month.
I just don’t know that the Fairness Doctrine would accomplish anything since there are so many places online, etc., where people can get any opinion that they want. And more and more people are happy to be able to shut out opinions they do not want to hear.
And some of the “both sides” commentary you can watch on shows like the PBS Newshour are so creaky that I expect the pundits to fall over into a dead sleep mid-sentence.
Brachiator
@Poe Larity:
“I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters,”
– Trump, 2016
Trump did this already when he let tens of thousands of people die from the Covid-19 virus.
And sure enough, he didn’t lose votes. He got more votes in the November election.
patrick II
@Redshift:
Regardless of how important you think it was, Trump thought it was important and had been trying to intimidate Pence for months as part of a larger plan, and in the end even tried to have him killed. It took some nerve to stand up to that — more than most of the D.C. Republicans I see.
Ruckus
@Hildebrand:
Dense doesn’t have a conscience. If conscience had a number system, like 1-100, he’d still be zero. shitforbrains is -300 on the same scale, as is Epstien.
Soprano2
That’s why I’ve taken to calling it the Trumpublican Party. That’s the truth now, that’s what they are.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@patrick II: Couldn’t we do warning labels and licensing differently though? OANN should have to broadcast a warning at the start of every segment stating that they are NOT an objective news station but represent a partisan, one-side perspective that may not be an accurate representation of the truth.
lou
Here’s a really scary survey of Republicans out of the American Enterprise Institute. The survey found that nearly three in 10 Americans, including 39% of Republicans, agreed that, “If elected leaders will not protect America, the people must do it themselves, even if it requires violent actions.”
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Brachiator:
This is true. But groups who still listen to a lot of radio are truckers, contractors, kitchen workers, etc. because they can just play radio in their workspace for free. Those people are better served by the Democrats, but are being fed poison all day long. Something has to be done about that.
JustRuss
@Another Scott: Thanks. My first thought was “Pence must have some sweet gigs lined up and he doesn’t want to blow it.” Bastard.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@West of the Rockies: I’ve read that the attrition in Republican voters isn’t happening in districts that voted for Trump. I’m not sure how much it will help us in the end.
Quiltingfool
Re Trump running in 2024. Right after the election, (while traveling in Osage Beach, Mo) I noticed a Trump 2024 billboard. Made me think that the folks putting up that sign acknowledged Trump lost, but was gearing up for another run. So, today, as I was on that same road, I noticed the billboard was gone – only the billboard frame remained. Hmmm. Wonder what changed?
Miss Bianca
@germy: I read her autobiography at one point. She’s scary to me because I could see clearly how her experiences led to her beliefs. I hate having sympathy for people whose belief systems horrify me.
Brachiator
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
RE: I just don’t know that the Fairness Doctrine would accomplish anything since there are so many places online, etc., where people can get any opinion that they want. And more and more people are happy to be able to shut out opinions they do not want to hear.
People are not passively being fed anything. They are happily going to the Bigotry Buffet and loading up on all the right wing nonsense they can consume.
I have a theory that in the age of the Internet conspiracies and nutball nonsense has intensified precisely because it is so easy to find accurate information about most subjects.
But there are people who are desperate to preserve the lies and falsehoods that sustain them and give their lives meaning.
I have no problem with lawmakers crafting a new Fairness Doctrine. But I will bet good money that tons of people will simply shut off media that is fair and hunt down the media which will tell them lies.
ETA: When I was a teen and started reading more political news, I soon learned that the Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time rules was often bullshit. This was based on the simple observation that I rarely saw anyone on TV or heard anyone on the radio accurately espouse the views of people in my community.
I still see this today on the Sunday pundit shows and stuff like the PBS Newshour, where questions and panels are shaped to reflect and debate a narrow range of opinion.
Even some supposed progressive opinion is slanted. I once watched a Bill Moyer special in which every guest presumed that government run single payer was obviously the best health care system. No one, absolutely no one mentioned the health care systems of any country with universal health care that was not government run single payer.
wuzzat
My guess is that the number of “True Believers” is small and that most of them are just self-serving pieces of shit. No matter what they do, Democrats still aren’t going to vote for them and if they don’t side with Trump they’ll have lost his cult following for whatever sack of bugfuck crazy he throws his weight behind in the primaries. If they vote to convict, there’s nothing in it for them other than proving that they may not have completely betrayed their oaths of office, and most of them just don’t have it in them to do the right thing just because it’s the right thing.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Brachiator: I when you limit the flow of outrage and BS it turns down the temperature. When you hear someone you don’t agree with make a solid point, you are more likely to see the other side as human. Case in point, my parents are so much easier to talk to when they are limiting their Fox consumption. Its like they come out of a fog and see the world around them again. Just limiting the ability of people to listen to radicalizing BS all day ever day would make a difference.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
What country has a non governmental healthcare system that is single entity/single payer? We have a governmental single payer healthcare provider here, it’s called the VA.
Redshift
@patrick II: Trump also thought it was important to go to court in every swing state and try to get the results overturned. What did that get him? Pence had the choice of doing his ceremonial duty as prescribed, or stirring up a temporary shit show. Either way he was going to fail Trump, and as we’ve seen repeatedly, Trump trashes people who put on a ludicrous show of support and fail just as much as people who disagree with him.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
From a fast Google search:
Brachiator
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Totally agree.
Sadly, some people live for outrage.
KenK
So, what’s Tuberville’s role in this , other than Mike Lee being on trump’s and Rudy’s speed dials?
Mike G
OT but WTF kind of hick name is “Tommy Tuberville”?
It sounds like a cartoon potato from a kid’s TV show.
brantl
@Brachiator: SO, you found ONE?
Brachiator
@brantl:
No. I knew about the Swiss system and wanted to get the details right. So, I specifically searched only for that.
Nora Lenderbee
@brantl: Germany, France, Japan all have multi-payer systems. You could Google it.
Uncle Cosmo
I rather doubt he was ever called that – since he served in the House and not the Senate. Anyone who might have called him that would only have confirmed his/her ignorance of this simple and easily verifiable fact. The same for anyone who would have believed someone who called him that. NB that includes you.
Uncle Cosmo
In fact that is exactly the way “the amendment was envisioned” – to ensure there would always be someone with the authority to make decisions and issue orders as Chief Executive when the sitting POTUS agrees that he’ll be hors de combat**, e.g., under general anesthesia. That’s why the voting threshold for permanently sidelining the sitting POTUS and installing VPOTUS as Acting POTUS per Section 4 is higher than for impeachment and removal*** – clearly the drafters of the 25th intended to prevent its use in a “palace coup.”
** Bad pun somewhat redeemed by being en français.
*** 2/3 of both houses vs majority in the House to impeach and 2/3 in the Senate to remove
The Fat White Duchess
@taumaturgo: Very good point. And any bets that Pence was in fact an abused child? I’ve been assuming that for a long time.
The Fat White Duchess
@Ivan X: Admirable decision, thank you.
In my teen years, WABC-77 was the ultimate Top-40 radio that most of my classmates listened to. (I did, too, for a year, trying to fit in. Then disco took over, and I gave up.). Sorry to hear it’s gotten so much worse.
A close friend (and ex-girlfriend) of our housemate’s is a… well… conservative evangelical married to a serious RWNJ. I like her as long as we don’t talk politics (which is mostly doable, as she only thinks about the topic via her husband, and I avoid him). Occasionally I challenge her, because she is basically a good person thoroughly brainwashed and I would dearly love to help her escape the cult.
[I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the Upton Sinclair remark re: salary, and how often it also applies to relationships Especially, it seems, for women.]
But back pre-2016 we attended their Christmas party, and every person there (except the three of us) talked about their daily rourine of listening to the local hate radio. It was weird, and chilling, and I didn’t know what to do. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were in the 1/6 mob.
The Fat White Duchess
@West of the Rockies: Yes, though they only briefly (as many of the conments notes) hinted at the important that these economically precarious folks: 1. strongly leaned libertarian glassbowl, and were precarious because of liens on unpaid taxes and suchlike forms if deadbeat patriotism, 2. then blamed their lisses on Others who needed to be put in their proper status.
(Sorry for the unwieldy sentences, if anybody is still reading yesterday’s thread. Insomnia, like madness, takes its toll.