A few items for everyone to chew over:
The Supreme Court is going to review a Mississippi abortion law banning abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy. Looks like Mitch McConnell will finally achieve a long-term Republican goal of essentially outlawing abortions in red states.
In New York, Cuomo just announced that we’re going to follow CDC guidelines and end masking everywhere except public transit, schools and health facilities. On the graph below, the yellow line is the positivity rate in my county (Monroe, NY), the blue is number of tests administered. We’ve been stuck at 3-ish percent positive for months. We’re around 54% vaccinated. Should we unmask indoors? I think it’s early. New Jersey hasn’t ended their indoor ban, for what it’s worth.
A short anecdote: As I’ve mentioned before, schools in my suburb have been in session without major issues for months due to commitment by teachers, staff, kids and parents. It is not uncommon to see kids riding bikes or hanging out alone with a mask on. It is just not that big a deal to them. A few days ago, a radio host tweeted out that he hoped that the poor children in our community can at least attend summer camp without masks. A few minutes after reading his tweet, I looked out the window and saw a kid ride by on his bike, with his mask on. Maybe instead of listening to whiners, he could have asked a few of the kids around here, who don’t seem to have a problem wearing a mask.
Matt Gaetz’ pimp pleaded guilty today and confirmed that he’s agreed to cooperate with the government. Fingers crossed that Gaetz gets some sort of consequence.
The Biden Administration is going to send 20 million doses of FDA-approved vaccine abroad by the end of June. This is in addition to the 60 million doses of Astra-Zeneca we’ve already committed to sharing.
Your Mellow, I Am Here To Harsh It: The Agreed To 6th January Commission Is Not Worth the Paper the Agreement Was Announced On
rikyrah
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
rikyrah
I hope that they are going to help folks in this hemisphere. We should be sending it to Canada, Mexico and Brazil.
Scout211
Governor Newsom already announced (before the CDC’s recent update) that he would relax or rescind the mask mandate as of June 15th. I think most Californians are waiting to hear from him today or tomorrow at his mid-day update to see if he changes that June 15th date.
Matt McIrvin
What is the deal about this arms sale to Israel? Are we seriously going to help them kill more Palestinians? We need to cut them off ASAP.
Major Major Major Major
I’m curious to see what private businesses end up doing in NY. Hopefully the excelsior pass can play a big role.
Brachiator
Over the weekend and this morning, I have listened to various talk radio hosts insist that enough people have been vaccinated or have built up natural immunity because they had caught Covid, and so no one needs to mask anymore. And we don’t really need to worry about getting the vaccine to children; nor should we try to get the remaining adult population to get the vaccine. It’s all over. We can declare victory and return to normal.
This dumb ass message is fairly consistent, but of course, never cites any authorities for this judgment.
A couple of talk radio gadflies point to Israel, but as far as I can determine, about 63 percent of the population has got at least the first dose, but the country is obviously smaller than the US and I don’t know whether they have many pockets of non-vaccinated people (and I don’t know how it goes with ultra-Orthodox Jews).
Percysowner
Once they’ve stopped Roe, the next step is Griswold. “Let’s put onerous regulations on any type of birth control that a woman can control. They shouldn’t have to worry their poor little heads about choosing to have a child. Let the men do that.”
NotMax
Good, but – 20 million doses is not of much use without also making provision for 20 million needles and also there being enough and proper storage capability at the receiving end to keep the vaccine potent.
Keith P.
The next step will be banning interstate travel for the purpose of an abortion, federalism be damned.
MattF
Gaetz’s goose is very cooked, IMO. He’s in fact out there, IRL, still saying extremely stupid things. Against his lawyer’s advice, one assumes.
Jeffro
I hope we end up shipping, oh, 10 billion or so doses of vaccine to other countries before a variant crops up that renders all types of vaccine moot and we get to do this dance all over again.
Baud
I hope Senator Uterus is gloating.
dmsilev
I could certainly imagine LA County lifting the indoor mask mandate for fully vaccinated people. Our current case rate is roughly 2.5/100k/day, with a positivity rate of about 0.5% (with both metrics trending downwards). The County estimated a week or so ago that between vaccinations and people who recovered from a case of COVID, something like 63-4% of the entire population has some level of immunity. By now, that’s probably ticked up to about 66-7%.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Major Major Major Major:
Cuomo tweeted today that the NBA playoff games will be 50% vaccinated (Excelsior pass) and 50% not. Tribeca film fest: 100% vaccinated. I think that pass is going to get a workout for ticketed events but I don’t see the utility at, say, a grocery store since it would involve a lot of labor to check, plus the inevitable confrontations with maskholes..
Mary G
@Percysowner: Yep, Roe is only step 1. Unless we stop the, Republicans will take us all the way back to women’s property belongs to their husband.
Major Major Major Major
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: if I ran a gym I’d use it there. You’re already scanning membership cards. Give out little bracelets to the vaxed. Or have days or times set aside for them—or even better, days or times set aside for the unvaxed.
Brachiator
@Percysowner:
It’s not just about birth control that a woman can control. Pre Griswold, the noxious idea was that the state had an interest in making sure that married couples reproduced. All forms of contraception were potentially suspect, even condoms.
germy
I call it “boss’s son syndrome”
Scout211
Just announced :
Woodrow/asim
Oh yes. There are quotes from anti-Abortion leaders in the last 70s/early 80s about killing Griswold, and they were not joking.
That said, it’s really fuckin’ critical to remember that for a lot of poor and marginalized folx, Roe is already dead.
It’s not a coincidence that the conservatives have basically forced changes on Roe that are centered not just on Red states, but on people who cannot afford/have agility to travel in those states. That said people are being pushed out of voting rolls is also not a coincidence.
Also: that said folx don’t sit in diners and get cushy interviews about their political views.
This is the slow horror of the anti-abortion lobby. They know that [EDIT: I was too broad] many people with a voice aren’t actually being too impacted by these changes. They prey upon the disconnect between the poor and middle-class, in America.
And I’d bet anything that the ruling that comes out will be a brutal one for a lot of folx — but will do it’s best to avoid direct impact on the women who have time and energy to be active in their communities. Even if Roe gets “overturned”, it’ll be a ruling with enough holes to drive a tank convoy thru, enough holes to keep the lobbyist mill running for more and more anti-abortion laws for another generation.
That’s what gets to me, about all this — both what the GOP has been doing for decades, and how we allow the media to talk about it.
germy
(Quote from the article linked above — bold mine)
I’ll cheer if Gaetz is implicated, but I’m not getting my hopes up. Guys like Gaetz usually get away with everything, up to and including murder.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Percysowner:
I don’t know, I’d think a lot of men wouldn’t be particularly happy that their significant others/friends with benefits wouldn’t have access to birth control. Or that condoms would be harder to get since those were also suspect apparently pre-Griswold
Baud
@Brachiator: Gotta fight White Replacement somehow.
MattF
@germy: I think pleas generally avoid accusing unindicted individuals of crimes.
Mary G
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I could be wrong, but my call is that they will let red states outlaw it under “states’ rights”, but California, NY, etc. will be allowed to provide abortions for now, so that all the rich people can fly over and get them.
Major Major Major Major
@MattF: This is my understanding as well. Cooperation isn’t publicly noted until later.
trollhattan
@Scout211:
This Californian approves heartily. Costco said they would relax mask requirements based on the revised CDC guidance, except where state law is more strict.
trollhattan
@germy:
I can see him sitting in jail and still being reelected. Republicans. Florida.
Shakti
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
One would think. But I’m reminded of this poll from 2018:
Cermet
@NotMax: More than likely it will be J&J since we have a surplus of that. So normal frig’s will work.
Cermet
@Mary G: Or that there is no such thing as rape in marriage. These monsters will never stop – they even have a typical amerikan religious type on that inferior court and she will certainly vote for those issues.
rikyrah
The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) tweeted at 6:01 AM on Mon, May 17, 2021:
Child cash benefits from the stimulus will begin landing in millions of parents’ bank accounts July 15, Treasury Dept. says https://t.co/OYPztMFbI1
(https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1394246810756124672?s=03)
catclub
I really wish that ‘get vaccinated even if you already caught covd-19’ had been emphasized more. The vaccines are better.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Shakti:
Of course, those were registered voters. I’d assume that registered voters nationwide as a group tend to skew older anyway, hence that 52%. I’d have to imagine that such a decision overturning Griswold would be a step too far for too many people. Even one that tried to do it based on “state’s rights” would be nutso; imagine living in a red state and being told you’d have to travel to another state/blue state just to buy a box of condoms or birth control pills. Middle class people for one aren’t going to like this and they actually have a voice. Married couples are going to want to have sex without worrying about an unplanned pregnancy
IMO, abortion is one thing. My impression is that apolitical people tend to fall for the emotional “SAVE THE BABIES!!” bs. Tell them that contraception is evil and killing “babies” and I guarantee the vast majority of people will look at them and go, “WTF!?”. It’s a way tougher sell for obvious reasons imo
I suppose this doesn’t preclude conservatives from trying to make contraceptives harder to get and the poor get shafted sadly, but that’s going to be hard to hide from a bunch of other people. I don’t think the forced birth nuts are going to be satisfied until women are barefoot and pregnant. Their efforts will be seen as increasingly radical and alienate most people. It won’t be tenable
Another Scott
@Woodrow/asim: +1
They’re not going to strike down Roe. They’re going to continue chipping away at it, and chipping away with other hallmarks of civilized modern society at the same time.
They need Roe to stay on the books as a punching bag. It’s how they rile up their lizard-brained voters. But they know that long-term it’s a losing proposition. There are ads on TV for web-based doctors and pharmacies that supply Plan B and “free” contraception now, after all… That’s why they’ve been pushing the latest “protect the children” stuff. They’re looking for the latest punching bag (and so far the P+1 folks haven’t found one).
Democrats ran on making Roe “the law of the land”. They’re not going to sit back if the SCOTUS guts it even more.
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
laura
It’s not just Roe and it’s not just Griswold- it’s the entire penumbra or The Right to Privacy. That’s the game that’s a foot. The Robert’s Court is an abomination.
Calouste
@Shakti: 52% is a lot more gay men than is usually assumed there are.
meander
@Scout211: The full statement from California Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly
Edmund Dantes
@Keith P.: oh the fugitive slave act is coming back. People have been using versions of it to make arguments that other states can’t harm their state industry through regulations. Wyoming and coal. It’s a “fringe” thing for now, but the federalist hacks have it percolating around.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mary G:
Probably. I’m not sure how restrictive these state anti-abortion laws are. Even among some anti-choice people I’ve talked to, they still tend to think abortion should be allowed in cases of rape/incest and to save the mother’s life
The SC simply can’t allow laws like that to stand
Geminid
@Shakti: Men just do not feel the urgency of the threat this Supreme Court poses to women’s freedom the way women do. I often thought of this when I saw the predominately male Sanders supporters say it really wasn’t such a big deal that trump won in 2016. “Heightening the contradictions,” and such bullshit.
randy khan
I am interested in the amount of skepticism on the left about the CDC’s announcement last week. It’s not really the inverse of vaccine hesitation, but it seems to sort of spring from the same kind of impulse. It’s like it’s hard to believe it when we hear good news.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Edmund Dantes:
State’s rights for me but not for thee. Also too, so much for the “invisible hand of the free market” ideology
Still, though, what would stop said states from simply ignoring such ridiculous rulings? Not to mention private industry. The coal industry thing is such a loser at this point
Another Scott
@catclub: There’s lots of evidence that having COVID once is not adequate protection from getting it again. Everyone (possible) needs to get vaccinated.
TheLancet (from January 2021):
As long as community spread is high, there are dangers in being unvaccinated – even if one has had COVID-19 before.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Calouste: Well done!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@randy khan:
Somebody here (Anne Laurie in her daily covid posts?) quoted something from the NYT interviewing a lot of epidemiologists and other public health experts who expressed surprise that the mask guidance had changed the way it did. They expected the public to be wearing masks indoors until next year at the earliest
Soprano2
Those people are not living in the real world. That was NEVER going to happen except maybe in a few places. NEVER. They may think it’s necessary to do that in order to completely get rid of Covid, but nowhere in the U.S. except really liberal areas would agree to this.
randy khan
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I’ve seen it. The article says that the survey had been going on for a couple of weeks – that is, that the vast majority of the epidemiologists were speaking in general terms, not in response to the CDC announcement. Equally important, the CDC said, essentially, that the decision came because of a flurry of new information over a pretty short period – vaccination rates and continuing vaccination activity, evidence of how well the vaccines work (both to prevent infection and to mitigate the impact if you are infected), declines in case rates and deaths, etc. So a lot of the epidemiologists likely were asked their opinions based on old information.
I would be worried about this if we were talking about a Trump Administration CDC head, but since Biden has been cautious all the way through on this, I think it’s more likely the change came later than it could have, rather than earlier than it should have.
mrmoshpotato
@Brachiator:
Assclown and Manbaby In The Morning talk mass vaccination!
JohnC
Have you seen this report? Tau Kappa Epsilon was expelled from Bucknell for outrageous hazing violations, and their former house was re-purposed as LGBTQ+ housing. The frat boys did not take this well.
“The students “banged against our windows and doors, swinging a metal bar at our flag pole that displays our pride flag, and urinating on our front porch,” he said.
They also yelled, “Let us in,” “This isn’t your home,” and “This is our home.”
The house at 825 Fraternity Road formerly housed the TKE fraternity until they were removed two years ago.”
No paywall: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-bucknell-university-investigating-harassment-lgbtq-students-frans-house-20210515-ryz742k7nzhdpkivvjijyqprnu-story.html?fbclid=IwAR1QqNEQpLBmD6kNjBGCvj9lfMTC2fAJ76r0EopIUOd-vwFXKMC1n0bF-zo
Paywall: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/05/17/bucknell-university-lgbtq-harassment/
Further article: https://www.losangelesblade.com/2021/05/16/queer-residential-safe-space-at-bucknell-university-attacked-by-frat-boys/
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Soprano2:
I’m not saying I necessarily agree. I do think this could’ve waited a few more months to be lifted tho. Maybe in July to see where we were. A lot of people aren’t vaccinated yet and those most likely to take off their masks likely aren’t. Like Another Scott said, previous infection from COVID-19 is also no guarantee you won’t get it again
Perhaps CDC has done models and concluded that cases/hospitalizations/deaths won’t go up significantly. In fact they probably have. Has the CDC published any data to support this decision?
rp
@Another Scott: I know I’m a guy and therefore in a privileged position, but if I’m being honest, I’m not sure I hate the idea of the SCt striking down Roe. Let the right put its cards on the table and see how voters really feel about abortion rights. I’m sick of them using Roe as a punching bag. And how much difference would striking roe down actually make to women in red states? Getting an abortion in those states is already almost impossible as a practical matter.
Soprano2
“Enough” would be 100% of those eligible. As far as I know no place has reached this yet. Here we’ll be lucky to get 50% fully vaccinated, although I wonder if once the pressure of having to perform by bragging about not being vaccinated has passed some of these people will go ahead and get it. Lots of them like to go on cruises……
I had a guy who has been fully vaccinated tell me last night that one of the problems with it is that vaccinated people can get Covid and pass it to a lot of people without knowing it. *facepalm* Couldn’t convince him otherwise.
Percysowner
@Brachiator: I know that pre-Griswold the point was to make certain everyone procreated, but in time since that the emphasis has move to “Men’s Rights” and the men in power don’t want to give THAT power up. The point is to keep women barefoot and pregnant and unable to wield any power.
Citizen Alan
@Percysowner: The thing that absolutely enrages me about the abortion debate is that nearly without exception, the god-botherers who want to abolish abortion and contraception also oppose food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc. Nearly without exception, all of them complain “why should I have to pay for somebody else’s mistake!” They want a huge population of children born and raised in abject poverty just to punish their mothers. Fucking sadists every one of them.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud:
I’m going to use that as a catch all for male GOP Senators. Come to think of it, it applies to all female GOP Senators as well.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@randy khan:
Ah. Well that’s good news then. I’d be curious to know what the results are of a study done on vaccinated people with mild/asymptomatic cases to see if long COVID/organ damage has happened or what degree it’s been mitigated by the vaccine.
Soprano2
I wish they had waited until the beginning of June, to make sure schools were out and to give people who only became eligible in April enough time to become fully vaccinated. I don’t think they could have waited until July, as the good news about the protection of the vaccine piled up. It really does reach a point where many vaccinated people start wondering why they can’t go without a mask if they want to because they’re almost fully protected, and are much more protected than an unvaccinated person wearing a mask would be. I think some people haven’t yet internalized the idea that we’re going to have to learn to live with Covid-19 in the world, because it has spread way too much to get rid of it.
I read an article in our newspaper from Friday that makes it sound like our health director is going to recommend that our city repeal the mask mandate and capacity restrictions as of May 27th. That’s the last day of school in our city, and that’s the reason for this timing. I have to give them credit, for this heavily MAGA area I think they held out as long as they could, and tried to set metrics to follow that I don’t think they are going to quite meet by May 27th. It could have been a lot worse. I’m not sure how many of you realize that there are many, many areas of the country where there were NEVER any kind of restrictions, or if there were they only lasted a few weeks. Lots of places have continued to operate as if Covid isn’t a problem
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Citizen Alan:
Yup. My RW evangelical aunt was asked about who would take care of the unwanted born children. Her response was that churches and charities would take care of them. Or something.
Like okayyyy, I don’t think that’s going to work very well in practice
randy khan
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
This is the epitome of anecdata, I realize, but one of my friends who had a milder version of long COVID was vaccinated and all of her symptoms went away.
Woodrow/asim
I’ve been a guy Belly Dancer, and spent time in Pro-Choice work.
In my studies and experience — esp. talking to a wide variety of women, some of whom have shared personal stories with me? Skip me with the “oh, guys’ll hate having no contraceptive choices!”
That polling is dead on — guys (including me!)’ll talk some game in public. But a lot of us’ll show a pregnant person our ass — and the damn door — in private. It’s a lot like my grumpiness about White allies for anti-racism work — they are hot to yell at KKK folx, not so eager to change up when you point shit out in their own actions.
Again: that man could have been me. I have to think about this a lot, so that I can keep trying to support the right side of reproductive rights. I’m not claiming so perfect allyship, in this regard — indeed, it’s my flaws that I’m working to use to make you, and others, aware.
I’ve heard a host of not-great stories, read others, heard how other guys talk, and know how I had to interrogate myself. All that work adds up. It tells me that the burden on contraception lies today on Women, and will for any changes to any laws, for good or ill. Moreover: I watched carefully the debate on the ACA and religious exemptions. It told me that any laws to alert people around restricting it risk — in today’s environments — falling on the deaf ears of horny dudes.
There’s a reason guys won’t “get the snip”. There’s a reason why efforts on male contraception seem never to go anyway.
Just as there’s a reason Viagra is fully covered in almost every plan.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): We’ve been lagging behind other neighboring communities here in Glendale. The Armenian population never has seemed to take COVID seriously, mask compliance was poor early on until the mask mandate was given enforcement teeth and vaccination rates are lagging about 10% less than our immediate neighbors(Little Armena in Hollywood also has low vaccination rates).
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Citizen Alan: I believe Barney Frank once pointed out that the only time Republicans care about children is between conception and birth.
sab
@Percysowner: Yes, but we have DNA testing now. 18 years of child support.
Barbara
@Baud: She doesn’t really care. Maine won’t outlaw abortion so she’s all good.
rikyrah
@JohnC:
So, THAT is who rushed the housing.
Sadly, I understand the report now.
Major Major Major Major
@randy khan: doomers gonna doom
rikyrah
@Citizen Alan:
tell that truth.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: The Seychelles are over 60% fully vaccinated and still had a massive COVID spike. Granted they never had a big wave in 2020, so there wasn’t a lot of immunity about from prior infection. And granted the vaccines they were using–Sinopharm and AstraZeneca–are probably less effective than the ones most of us have been getting. But it’s a warning not to make blithe assumptions.
Woodrow/asim
As someone who just wrote about this, allow me to extend my remarks.
If you’re poor, including working poor, in a Red state? Yes. You’re correct about the current state.
Yet, as I said on Twitter, it matters how you talk about this. Even with the laws we have today, we’re starting to build options, as another commentor noted below. There are travel funds. There are remote options.
So: You’re talking “letting the voters decide” in states where we are at massive, generational risks around voter suppression. “The Voters” will not decide. A small group of mostly Wealthy White Men, will decide.
In America, that usually leads to lofty words and not great outcomes for anyone not a Wealthy White Male. Hell, remember how at first most states didn’t even let poorer men vote? That’s a Democracy, yeah boy…
We all, in fact, have to decide. We need to decide if we want a different outcome, and how we’ll get it.
Throwing hands up, and walking away? That’s how you got Jim Crow.
JohnC
@rikyrah: At least as disturbing was the response of Bucknell security at the time: ““When Public Safety arrived, they laughed at the situation,” […] “the officers bonded with our offenders, reminiscing their college days and calling them handsome young men.””
lafcolleen
@rp: you are assuming that striking down Roe would be the end of it. As soon as Roe is gone, criminalizing abortion will be next. how many women are going to have to endure that? and they will criminalize going to another state to get an abortion as well.
Fair Economist
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Somebody should start a rumor about Turkey spreading vaccine disinfo info in the Armenian community to disrupt them and kill some off.
Might even be true.
dmsilev
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, Pasadena looks to be 10-15% higher in vaccination rate than Glendale. Something like 65% of residents (of all ages) here have at least one dose, and I think about half are fully vaccinated.
Shakti
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I haven’t registered for scribd so I can’t go and check if that sample skews older so so I don’t remember being impressed by any age group. Per the Cut, 45% of those younger (18 to 44) men said they benefited from women’s access to affordable birth control.
@Calouste: lmao.
@Geminid: They don’t. Cis Men aren’t responsible for birth control most of the time and they sure as fuck aren’t taking hormonal bc (in most cases) to avoid being pregnant. Men ejaculate and that’s it for them.
Randomly, I don’t know why COVID psas don’t focus on how it can fuck up your junk. That would increase mask and vaccine adherence in a hurry. We have tv ads for meds because Pfizer wanted to sell Viagra to men with pool noodle dicks.
WaterGirl
@Calouste: Though my initial thought was that by their measure, 52% of men are apparently clueless, live in a cave, and were raised by wolves.
lafcolleen
@sab: but it is actually a huge hassle to get support if the man doesn’t buy into the notion of an ongoing obligation to support kids.
DR courts are full of people trying to get or enforce support orders and it (often without lawyers) and the tools to enforce the orders are very blunt instruments. The trade off is pretty clear – if you don’t ask for support, I won’t visit. public policy isn’t against this as an explicit quid pro quo in court but it’s the compromise many people make.
WaterGirl
@rp:
Yes.
Too bad for all the women who get pregnant in the meantime, while things get sorted out. No big deal, I guess???!?!!!
Baud
@Barbara:
It’s not Collins. IIRC. it’s Udall of Colorado. That name was given to him by the media and some savvy liberals because he focused his election campaign on abortion rights. He lost to Cory Gardner.
WaterGirl
@Woodrow/asim: Thank you.
Fair Economist
@Matt McIrvin: There is quite a bit of variance on what happens in a ~60% vaccinated area that “opens up”. Seychelles had a monster epidemic. The UK is seeing cases accelerate slowly. Israel continues to see exponential decreases. The vaccine and the dosing regime could be part of it – the Seychelles is mostly Sinovac, UK mostly mRNA but with some Astrazenica and many single doses; Israel most aggressive with 2-dose Pfizer. But it’s just casual correlation at this point with no real studies.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Shakti:
Disappointing, but also from that The Cut article:
So mixed results
Sure Lurkalot
My governor and mayor went along with the CDC on masking almost immediately. Like some of you here, I wish it could’ve been tied to the July 4th 70% vax goal (good for marketing…”we are free at last”) or at least tied to some vax metric. It still seems arbitrary to me and then there’s the look of caving into the nutjobs.
That said, my spouse and I hit a large garden center this morning. Most of it is uncovered with some large volume greenhouse space and I’d say mask use was about 50%. I was expecting less given the change in regulations and the type of space.
I have few issues with mask wearing on such a limited basis so I’ll probably have one with me for a while. The only activity I really don’t like wearing a mask in cycling.
VeniceRiley
Gilead here we come.
pamelabrown53
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Sounds straight out of Oliver Twist : “Please, Sir, can I have some more?”.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
@rp:
I’m not a guy. I hate the idea of the SCt striking down Roe.
Sorry, but your argument reminds me of some on the left who think if right-wing extremists win, everyone will finally see what they’re all about and reject them forever. Nader voters made that argument over twenty years ago, and we ended up with two terms of George W. Bush, and four years of Donald Trump. And in the meantime, real people suffer and die.
And for anyone who thinks they wouldn’t dare strike Roe down because of whatever political calculations, remember that a couple of these judges aren’t from the Newt Gingrich/political calculation generation. They’re the generation the politically calculating Republicans brainwashed. They’ve spent most of their adult years in a closed right-wing noise machine. They hate the people who would be hurt if Roe would be overturned, and they don’t think long term.
mrmoshpotato
@Shakti:
Just want to gaze upon this phrase again.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
@Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): Stupid edit window closed while I was adding:
I also don’t think Republicans in general are even making the same political calculations. They can’t think long-term — they see demographics starting to shift against them, so they’re going to want to get as many of us over a barrel as they can, as quickly as they can. I don’t think the old political calculations w/r/t leaving Roe in place so they can keep beating that fifty-year-old drum are applicable anymore.
Cacti
After that, there will be an effort by elected Republicans to pass a Fugitive Slave Act type law that punishes red state women for seeking legal birth control or abortion services in a free state.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Keith P.:
“Pregnant? In this bastion of the most freedom on earth, we can’t let you go anywhere else.”
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Baud:
“Both sides are the same, but Hillary is worse than Trump. And don’t you dare guilt me about Supreme Court nominations!”
Kay
They still probably would have lost- the union got walloped- but it is amusing to me how deathly afraid these people are of any worker anywhere organizing.
They just couldn’t resist putting the big billionaire thumb on the scale because they have to win every time and on every question, always. It’s another manifestation of greed. They can’t give them one inch.
Dan B
@Shakti: I’m baffled too. Men are offended that masks are an attack on their masculinity. Ask them if they’ve heard about how Covid can cause their junk to wilt and sometimes there is scarring that is permanent.
Data persuades the already persuaded. Stories about threats to your manhood and virility could move mountains.
trnc
Actual good news (maybe).
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/17/us/police-unions-intervention-blueprint/index.html
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@trollhattan:
“His sins are between him and God. Who am I to judge; I’m just an ordinary forgiven sinner. But he speaks out for the right things and stand up for the culture, so I’ll continue to support him…..”
germy
Quick question for the commenters here:
What (in your opinion) is the best brand of chromebook?
I honestly didn’t know there were different brands until a few minutes ago. I thought there was only one, but I see they are produced by Acer, HP, Lenovo, etc.
Is one brand better than another?
Mike in NC
Local good news: gas stations are slowly reopening. I found one and filled the tank. Not sure what Putin’s goons will sabotage next. Railroads? Power grids? Without his stooge in the White House, he’s determined to mess with us.
Local bad news: next door neighbors adopted a dog about ten days ago. Seemed like a sweet girl, but apparently it barked a lot and was pretty destructive, and went nuts when it saw a rabbit, of which there are a lot around here. They returned her to the shelter today.
Cacti
**Statements are applicable to Republican candidates and office holders only.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Dan B:
Does your average 60+ year old conservative white guy even care if his junk works or not? From what I’ve seen, they are mostly interested in pissing off liberals and stepping on black people.
mrmoshpotato
@Dan B:
This attitude makes me groan. I can see how the mask mandates didn’t let selfish assholes continue to be selfish assholes, but an attack on their masculinity?
Stupid slapdicks, all of them.
James E Powell
@rp:
I sometimes feel this way; it’s an emotional response to a long simmering frustration. But:
As to that last one, the anti-abortion forces have a very long list of goals, the sum of which amount to a fundamentalist Christian theocracy. They are never going to go away.
rp
@Woodrow/asim: No, I’m not saying walk away. My point is that once s*** gets real, pro-choice activists will have more room to maneuver because many voters will not be ok with severe restrictions on abortion. Roe has made most Americans very complacent when it comes to abortion rights. Strike it down and put it in the states hands and voters will forced to reckon with these issues in a new way. Yes, I know this is a “heighten the contradictions” argument, but I think it’s one of the few instances where it makes some sense.
If you put a gun to my head, I’d say “no, of course I don’t want roe overturned.” I guess my point is that the alternative might not be the disaster we think.
hueyplong
@rp: I rarely see a heighten the contradictions argument from anyone in a group that will take that first-hand hit while the contradictions are being highlighted.
rp
@hueyplong: I know…I’m a terrible messenger for this argument. I can’t deny that. But like I said, abortion is already de facto illegal in many parts of the country
ETA: Put another way, the abortion rights situation in this country is already terrible. But because Roe is still technically good law, the average citizen who says he or she is pro-choice in a poll doesn’t know that.
Steve in the ATL
@Kay: in my field, the saying goes “companies that get unions are companies that deserve unions”. Treat your employees decently and it won’t even be an issue. Union avoidance is that simple.
Brachiator
@Percysowner:
The anti-abortion fanatics have not changed as much as you think. They want everyone, men and women, to submit to their idea of doing God’s Will. Men would be servants as well.
Martin
I’m glad that CA is sticking with the masking.
Lockdown is necessary when contact tracing is overwhelmed. So lockdowns end when contact tracing can take over, and 1% test positivity is still too high for that to happen. Our 7 day average for cases is still 1500 a day. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but contact tracing is time intensive, usually involving a face-to-face interview. If we can get that down another 75%, then we could shift to a mechanism where outbreak locations are happening and targeted lockdown/mandates could happen in a managed way.
There’s a step here we can do, and have done for other diseases, that it seems like most states are skipping, that I don’t think we should skip.
StringOnAStick
@Mike in NC: I have read that what was hacked was the system to account for how much gas went where and how to bill for it, so rather than not being able to bill, they shut the whole pipeline down. So the pipeline wasn’t in danger, but profits were.
Another Scott
@Soprano2: There’s still a lot we don’t know.
STATNews (from 5/13):
Few of us are virologists and infectious disease experts. This is still a “novel virus”. It doesn’t pay to get in the weeds as things are rapidly evolving in knowledge and understanding.
What we do now know is the mRNA vaccines are fantastic at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, and death. (But not 100%. Nothing is 100%.) That’s important. But continued public health measures are important as well to crush community spread.
HTH a little. Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
rp
@rp: All that said, the most compelling argument for saving Roe is criminalization. I have no doubt that post-Roe a few of the trumpiest states will pass laws criminalizing abortion, which would be truly horrifying.
Ksmiami
@laura: well fortunately the Roberts court doesn’t have too many field officers so if they want to launch civil War 2, well that’s on them. Violence is coming
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@hueyplong:
“Heighten the contradictions, just not at my expense.”
WaterGirl
@rp:
This attitude really makes me angry.
It will be a fucking life-changing disaster for every single woman who is directly impacted by not being able to get an abortion!
What part of that do you not understand?
WaterGirl
@rp: It’s already terrible, so who cares if we make it worse if it makes a point???
CaseyL
@rp: This “heighten the contradictions” think really bugs the hell out of me, because it doesn’t actually lead to anything. The contradictions get heightened, millions of people suffer and die, and nothing changes for the better.
FFS, name one country – one! – where “heightening the contradictions” actually led to a transformation that was better than before. Even when that tactic, as sadistic and sociopathic as it is, leads to a revolution like its proponents claim, the revolution results in an even worse regime taking over.
Ksmiami
@James E Powell: well we can with hold Covid vaccines and all manner of modern medicine from the evangelical population since they want to live in the 1300s… that would reduce their numbers
WaterGirl
@Martin: I just heard in one of the Jen Psaki daily briefings that the government does not plan to track cases of COVID that do not land you in the hospital.
Can that really be true? They don’t think it’s worth tracking if you get COVID, which can get you long COVID, even if you don’t end up in a hospital. They only care if you are hospitalized.
Are they not going to do any tracking or tracings? Are they just going to treat this like the flu?
I AM HORRIFIED. Between the recent CDC (awful) announcement “you’re on the honor system for masking” and this, I think we are suddenly completely heading in the wrong direction in how COVID is being handled.
Ksmiami
Followon I think we will be better off defunding the Red State Republicans. They can enjoy poverty and poor education but a wall around the fuckers
WaterGirl
@StringOnAStick: It’s my understanding that they shut everything down so the the entire system wouldn’t be compromised by the virus. Shutting the whole thing down to get the entire system from being compromised is completely different from what you are describing.
Ksmiami
@VeniceRiley: no – we have as much right to backlash as we dare take…
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m old enough to remember how constricted women’s lives were before Roe and birth control. We can’t go back to any of that.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl: If people get milder forms of Covid that don’t land them in the hospital and don’t kill them, it becomes a manageable disease – yes, “like the flu.”
hueyplong
IF in fact the vaccine x2 +2 weeks makes people immune, and WHEN everyone who can get to that point has had a fair chance to do so, I’m in favor of letting our old pal Darwin heighten the contradictions.
With or without tracing.
Brachiator
@rp:
Shit is already real.
I keep seeing weird stuff like this in Balloon Juice posts and elsewhere. Debate about the value of Roe. Meanwhile, red states make abortion illegal or impossible and otherwise interfere with reproductive choice.
Isn’t that a problem?
Martin
I think people are a little bit overreacting to the change with Roe. Not that it isn’t terrible – it is. But operationally it’s not like going back to the 70s.
Part of the reasoning behind Roe was that you couldn’t ban something that the state had no ability to know about. Since Roe, how we could administer abortions has changed substantially. In some countries 90%+ of abortions are medication abortions. In the US it’s only 38%. The main thing that is going to happen here, and likely already has in some places is that abortions will transition from clinics to mail-order. And as mail is federally regulated and protected, getting a prescription filled from a CA pharmacy can’t violate any state bans.
Granted, there are lots of cases that do need a clinic, but state laws will increasingly become impossible to enforce, and eventually this will fall away as a culture war issue.
As a measure to control women, it’s completely inexcusable, but women have a lot more ways to subvert the law, and they will, until there’s simply no point even arguing the issue. So long as CA is out here, and there is no federal ban, there will be telemedicine and mail order chemical abortions, and the burden will fall on your state to know whether you had a zoom call and received a package in the mail. Good luck with that…
Baud
@rp:
CDC for 2018
Things have gotten worse, especially in red states, but it’s not as if things are as bad as they would be if states could outlaw abortion completely.
smith
@Martin: Sure, but once again this works for middle-class women with internet access, and not for poor women without.
Martin
@Brachiator: It is. To be honest, the bigger problem is that Congress has let Roe carry the ball. If the Democratic party really believe as strongly in this issue as they claim, then they should be able to pass federal legislation protecting abortion while they have the necessary majorities. I haven’t seen anything even be suggested along those lines. So long as this issue is being argued along constitutional lines with no support from Congress, it’s going to remain an incredibly fragile institution vulnerable to state shenanigans. Why are CAs abortion rights so strong? It’s in our state constitution. In CA you have a constitutional right to an abortion. The courts are biased in favor of the citizen and legality because the legislature did the work. Congress has yet to do that in half a century.
Matt McIrvin
@Martin: We don’t know they won’t do something far more radical, like declaring embryos and fetuses persons under the 14th Amendment.
Another Scott
@germy: You probably have to compare specific models rather than brands. Some companies don’t update their models very often.
Also, Google has been adding more and more features to ChromeOS, so more powerful hardware might be beneficial if you’re concerned about that.
AndroidPolice from January might be a decent place to start.
Comments about GoogleIO 2021.
HTH a little.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Martin:
Internal party politics do not allow it. Any bill Congress passed would have to draw lines, and line-drawing would end up splitting reproductive rights advocates from more centrists members from redder areas. There was never any reason to take that on while Roe was good law.
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: I could agree with that except for what I said about long covid. Some people get long covid when they just had a mild case.
Mallard Filmore
@Brachiator:
“It’s amazing how rich God wants me to be!”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: Listening to Jonathan Cohn’s Ten Year War, I was reminded of all the abortion hoops Dems had to jump through to get the ACA past Bart Stupak (et al)
stinger
@rp: You can always — ALWAYS — tell when a pseudonymous writer is a man.
A Good Woman
@rp:
Pro-choice activists are already having to work with abortion restrictions in many states. The only breaks they appear to have gotten is when SCOTUS rules that the state has put unnecessary barriers in the way. That has been the case for the past 2 years at least. They are still fighting restrictions.
This case has only 1 question that will be considered, and I don’t believe that pro-choice activists are going to make any more headway if the Court rules that barriers are not, in themselves, unconstitutional. Assuming that somehow this will generate new thinking and options is naïve IMO.
stinger
@hueyplong: Change “rarely” to “never”, and you’ve got it.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl:It does come down to a risk/benefit analysis, though:How many people who get vaccinated will still be able to spread Covid?How many people will get Covid?How many of those people will get Long Covid?How many people who have Long Covid will not be treatable by getting the vaccine?
… each time, you’re looking at a smaller and smaller number of people.
Just like, in flu season, there are people who won’t get the flu shot, people who will get the flu, and people who will die or develop serious health conditions as a result. But very few.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Right. God bless advocates, but they are not the type to settle or compromise, especially on something like abortion rights.
ETA: and centrists aren’t going to give in to a lefty wish list either.
Geminid
@rp: “If you put a gun to my head”!?! Woman already have a gun to their heads.
germy
@Another Scott:
Thank you
TheTruffle
@Martin: I’m thinking if the GQP does what they have so long wanted to do, it will drive more voters and money to the Dems and the GQP won’t be able to overcome that.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Matt McIrvin:
I give that about a 30% chance of passage.
Nora Lenderbee
@hueyplong: @CaseyL: Sing it, sibling.
rp
@Baud: what percentage of those abortions were in blue states?
eta: I looked it up and 120k were in Texas and Florida, so I stand corrected.
Baud
@TheTruffle:
The hard part for the GOP is that their zealots will want the most extreme measures. And while the M.O. for Republican voters has been blind obedience for the sake of racial defense, I think abortion has been percolating for so long that it may be an exception to the rule.
Martin
@smith: I’m not sure how big a problem that really is. A $10 used smartphone gets you covered. So something like 97% of adults of childbearing age has one. Virtually every adult that doesn’t have a smartphone are seniors.
stinger
@Martin:
Coat hangers at home; it doesn’t get more subversive than that.
Baud
@rp:
There are tables at the bottom of the report that break it down by state. It doesn’t separate the states into red or blue, but red state abortions are not nothing.
Martin
@Baud: That may be, but it’s also served to put the entirety of the issue on federal judge appointments, which hasn’t just fucked up that process, but fucked up a ton of policies outside of abortion, for 50 years now. The entire federal judiciary is now shaped around this one issue.
The court should not have been allowed to be the final word on this for that long.
Baud
@Martin:
I’m not going to place any blame on Dems for this one. Nothing stops them from passing a bill after Roe is overturned.
J R in WV
@dmsilev:
Sure, if there is a serious legal penalty, like 10 years prison for attempted homicide, for people who go into a business with no mask, and completely unvaccinated.
Citizen Alan
@Matt McIrvin:
Antonin Scalia (may he roast in hell) never argued that fetuses were people. His position was that the state has an interest in fetuses being carried to term, but he never thought that fetuses had a right to live equal to or greater than that of the mother.
stinger
Nothing pisses me off more than supposed allies going, “Let’s you and them fight.”
Ksmiami
@stinger: the only coat hangers that should be used should be on the necks of GOP Congress people that want to murder women. Because in the absence of legal contraception and abortion, women die
evodevo
@JohnC:
Not surprised…the TKEs were a bunch of assholes when I was at UK back in the Sixties…sounds like nothing has changed…
sab
@stinger: When I was in high school ( early 1970s) the rich girls went to Japan for abortions. Everyone else went to Florence Crittenden or got married very young.
Martin
@stinger: The really annoying thing here is that chemical abortions are much safer than a D&C and the US has been very, very late to this change in procedure. We should have been fighting into that change because it would have had massive implications for how the abortion issue is even talked about. This is why CA mandated public universities to provide abortion services – because it’s ‘sit down and take these two pills’ in almost every case.
People complain so much that tech is dominating how many things in this country happen, and even democrats are just leaving this one for tech to solve. These are highlighting the services that are respecting state law, but services will develop that are akin to a health VPN – a way to do this process from a state that doesn’t allow it by making it look as though you are in a state that does allow it.
This is what tech does – it infiltrates markets and bypasses barriers. Along the way it forces changes to how we think about those barriers, sometimes making them stronger, and sometimes doing away with them altogether.
sab
Kay is not here now, but she always points out that abortion restrictions will involve monitoring all pregnancies throughout. their term.
Martin
@Baud: The legislature should have the greatest ability to affect public policy. We gave them a pass while they let Bush run wild, and we give them a pass when they let USSC run wild. I’m aware of the challenges, but that doesn’t absolve them of responsibility. Sooner or later they need to do this through Congress, and they can start wherever they can.
smith
Which leads directly to cross examinations and possible prosecutions of women who have miscarriages. Trauma upon trauma.
Baud
@Martin:
It’ll probably be an issue next year once this decision comes down.
Otherwise, Dems have controlled Congress and the White House for only 4 years since 1980, before this year. I’m not going to waste time holding them responsible for not preventing every GOP action.
J R in WV
@Major Major Major Major:
Best of all, tell the unvaxed to get the hell out, until they can prove their vaccinated status!!
Calouste
@sab: Even worse than that, it will involve monitoring all menstrual cycles. Or mandatory monthly pregnancy tests for every woman between 12 and 50.
sab
@Calouste: Fun times ahead.
Geminid
@rp: Sorry. That was kind of a cheap shot I took above, and I did not need to pile on. But I would like to make a more positive response to your argument:
You say that abortion rights are nearly impossible to obtainfor many women now. But is that really so? These new laws have tried to make abortion more difficult to obtain, and have, but I do not think it’s a matter of near impossibility. Yet. The case the Supreme Court will take up will be very consequential in this area. And I don’t think that the outcome of this case is certain.
But I was piling on, and appropriating the moral position of people who make these arguments better than me anyway.
stinger
@sab: When I was in high school — about 4 years before you, from the sound of it — pregnant girls dropped out and got married. Five years later, they’d be divorced, often with more than the initial child, and working as a cashier since they didn’t have a diploma. The lucky few who had the money and the savvy and someplace to stay, went to the next state over and got an abortion.
stinger
@Martin: Pill-based abortion is still abortion. Forced birthers are against that just as they are against D&C and other intervention methods.
Kay
@smith:
Gross. So intrusive. Conservatives are going to regret going down this road. There’s no end to it and laws are a blunt instrument. There will be horrifying and idiotic interpretations. Monthly.
They like to sneer at Roe but Roe is really the best analysis we’re ever going to get. It’s a hard question. I know they all think they’re the smartest lawyers on the planet but people left the bones of Roe in not because Roe is great but because it’s an impossible dilemma. Our newest justices don’t have that level of humility.
Remember these are the people who looked at the one of the greatest civil rights laws in US history, the Voting Rights Act, and gutted it without a second thought, ushering in whole new era of voter suppression.
Gvg
@Martin: we don’t have the numbers to do it. We can’t even get voting rights through. I don’t think we ever had the numbers either. It’s always been a slight majority favor roe, my whole life, not an overwhelming majority.
J R in WV
@WaterGirl:
I think StringOnAStick is correct, they would have to do a ton fo work to bill recipients of fuels manually, and what was borked was their billing IT system. So rather than set up a squad of accounting clerks, they quit providing fuels to their customers.
While they paid the criminals who borked their system $5,000,000, believing that the crooks would actually restore their IT system… which the crooks did not, could not do. Their own restore from back-up system, while slow, is faster than the de-crypt keys the crooks sent them.
Total greed-fest with major incompetence on top.
On the other topic, I’m with those who are revolted by the Theocratic evangelists trying to mess with the right to privacy, medical privacy means no one — NO ONE — else gets to know anything about your medical condition or needs. The End!!
I quit answering questions my Medicare Supplemental insurance company wants to ask, like “How long did it take for your doctor to see you?” A long ass time, because he is willing to see everyone who calls in sick — I’m good with that! Plus I spend 30 or 40 minutes with an RN taking my stats, drawing blood and asking all the questions. I just quit, I hang up on them, it’s none of their business if I don’t care to talk about my doctor appointments.
MUCH Less some pseudo-Christian preacher who doesn’t know me and mine. Much less. Those guys make up their own version of the Bible, and sue the fiction to mind-control people who want and need help, not mind-control leadership. Grrr.
sab
@stinger: I married into a big Catholic family, and I have many nieces who were very anti-abortion in high school. A generation later, when they are all grown up, with kids, and many successfual and unsuccessful pregnancies behind them, they are a lot more humble about telling other women what to do, and what the risks are.
Meanwhile, the Ohio legislature wants doctors to reimplant ectopic pregnancies. (!!!?*&!!!) so if the original pregnancy didn’t kill you the sepsis from the forced reimplantation will.
stinger
@sab: WHAT???????!!!!!!!!! Good Dog the level of ignorance……
sab
@stinger: It didn’t pass, but the fact that they could get a bunch of guys up on their hind legs discussing it in public tells me everything I want to know about these people.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud:
What I’m curious about is what percentage of these aborted pregnancies would not have been successful anyway: Medical cases for the mother, or cases where the child would not have survived.