1. Spices and Meat
Surprisingly, flawed opinions persist about the use of spices in Early Modern Europe. Apparently it was to cover the smell of rotting flesh or to compensate for poor quality meat.
I read two instances recently. pic.twitter.com/103oJ9gjbG
— Krishnendu Ray (@Raykris1) August 25, 2021
Everything in the news sucks, and some gremlin posted one of my year-old drafts-in-progress. Let’s talk about food, or something equally non-depressing. From a thread:
6. “Spices were very expensive, and meat was relatively cheap. According to the household accounts of the earl of Oxford in 1431–32, an entire pig could be had for the price of a pound of the cheapest spice, pepper.”
— Krishnendu Ray (@Raykris1) August 25, 2021
8. Meat does not need immediate refrigeration as evident from meat sold in the markets of South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa. Some meat, such as game, improves with hanging.
— Krishnendu Ray (@Raykris1) August 25, 2021
10. The dominant paradigm of usage of meats/vegetables in Western haute cuisine, after the nouvelle turn, assumes that things naturally taste good as themselves; as their pure essence. So they cannot believe that their ancestors would spice foods. Chefs are complicit in this.
— Krishnendu Ray (@Raykris1) August 25, 2021
zhena gogolia
Interesting.
I’ve been watching Robin Hood (2007), and they always have haunches of roast pork out in Sherwood Forest. Not sure how that works.
Immanentize
Garlic. In my families world, garlic was used to cover the scent of questionable meat. Not a spice. Almost free to grow. Worked wonders.
N.B. my grandfather, uncle and godfather were butchers in the depression and beyond.
debbie
Can’t remember which old television show it was, but I remember a scene where the chef went apoplectic because a diner asked for more salt on his food.
karen marie
I am very excited because I met my new neighbor briefly yesterday. She’s from India. I do not yet know whether she cooks, but I am trying to stay calm at the prospect of having a person with knowledge and experience provide me with guidance in improving my spicy dishes!
First she has to actually move her furniture in. HURRY UP, LADY!
Immanentize
@zhena gogolia: People could keep and/or kill pigs and chickens in many places in the middle ages. Cattle, horses and deer (and boar) not so much.
germy
WaterGirl
Anne Laurie, the one-year-old thread was only up for maybe 2-3 minutes. I hope that didn’t upset you!
Roger Moore
This has been repeatedly debunked to the point the debunkings have almost become tiresome. The best guess is that this is one of those crazy things the Victorians would sometimes say about the past. They really seem to have had it in for the Middle Ages and bad mouthed it in all kinds of ways: people never bathed, they thought the world was flat, they had to spice their meat to make up for it being rotten, etc.
germy
Chicken vs. dog. And they’re both enjoying themselves.
germy
@karen marie:
It’d be funny if she said “Gosh no, I’m all thumbs in the kitchen. Can you recommend the best places for take out?”
Roger Moore
@zhena gogolia:
They were probably poaching the king’s game. If you’re going to be an outlaw, you might as well do all the illegal stuff.
J R in WV
Should this thread be in the “food” category at all?
Methinks not, milord!
schrodingers_cat
Is this Ray person sub tweeting the Washpost columnist with an extremely stupid take on spices and food that he had at some Indian restaurant?
Miss Bianca
@germy: ha ha! that chicken jumping in the air just killed me.
schrodingers_cat
@karen marie: If you have questions about spices and food from India I may be able to answer some of them.
OzarkHillbilly
I read somewhere along the line that the reason tropical food is so spicy is to cover up meat that has gone bad. I have no idea if that is true or not, but it made a kind of sense.
One of the 2 times I got food poisoning was from eating pork and beans at a SW MO BBQ joint. Somebody had added a whole lot of chile powder to it, so maybe I am inclined to think that.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: Similarly, and relatedly, that tongue map of our taste buds is all wrong, also too.
When I first saw that in school, I knew it was BS. Why do they teach stuff that is obviously wrong??
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
My day was spent at the county courthouse for jury duty. Called to three courtrooms, but all of them filled the jury before they got to me. I have mixed feelings, since if I’d served I would be exempt for a while.
Ken
If World of Warcraft (as filtered through South Park) has taught us anything, it’s that the forest has an unlimited supply of wild boar.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize: But itinerant outlaws in the forest?
zhena gogolia
@Ken:
Oh, okay, I didn’t think of that.
Roger Moore
@zhena gogolia:
I think a certain degree of artistic license should be assumed in cases like this.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
I think it would be more likely to be venison, but whatevs.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Chef. PBS in C-bus used to air it. But that was different, It was because the diner wanted spice in the food; it was that HIS food was perfect with the spices he had chosen.
Gin & Tonic
@Ken:
I served on Jury duty probably 30 years ago, and have lived at the same address since, but have not been called again. Weird.
JoyceH
@germy:
Reminds me of when I was in the Navy and we had a 4th of July cookout and pot luck. For those of you who don’t know, a LOT of Navy guys have Philippine wives. So one of the petty officers suggested to his Philippine wife that she should make lumpia (Philippine egg rolls) for the pot luck. Told us she scowled at him and said she wasn’t making that trash, she was making good American food. So she brought fried chicken. We did have lumpia, though – it was made by one of the Caucasian female petty officers.
Cermet
Speaking of dead meat, half a million deplorables (and a far smaller number of humans) died thanks to the sacklers (crime) family – but no lost, right? They can help murder 500,000 people and all they do is pay a fine. Deplorable’s lives come cheap – what about $9,000 per deplorable. Just for our courts, that is more than enough – bet the states take much of it for non-treatment purposes and the victims see zero.
Cermet
@Another Scott: Because MD’s are 1) rather simple beings (unable to handle complex concepts) 2) memorize what ever their told 3) wouldn’t understand real research if it bite them.
Cermet
@schrodingers_cat: What are the may types of cuisine of India – I’m vaguely aware of a north/south divide but ignorant of what the difference are? Be nice to know more details (actually, any details … .)
Old Man Shadow
I could get by with garlic and salt if I was forced to do so.
Rosemary, Black pepper, and cumin would be next on the must-haves. Followed by ground chilis, turmeric, paprika, coriander, bay leaves, cinnamon, and I know they’re not spices, but brown sugar and soy sauce would also be on my preferred list of must haves on things I would want in my medieval kitchen.
schrodingers_cat
@Cermet: There are many many regional cuisines, what one sees in the west is mostly cuisine of northern India, especially Punjab. That’s mainly because of the displaced Punjabi diaspora after the Partition of British India.
I originally come from west coast India where seafood is the main staple. Coconut is another staple.
glc
@Roger Moore:
Somehow it still comes as news to me, may be the most interesting thing I’ve read today.
Anyway, more interesting than the breaking news at the BBC which is that a US military commander has come to the conclusion, sometime today apparently, that the Taliban will be “ruthless.”
Learned the “standard” version maybe 5 or 6 decades ago, never thought about it. Though eventually I looked at a 14th century cookbook and that was quite odd from my point of view.
Math Guy
I like the flavors and I understand that certain spices (eg, turmeric) have health benefits, so I use those in my cooking.
mrmoshpotato
If there ever was a thread for this…
?SPICE UP YOUR LIFE!?
Steeplejack
@Gin & Tonic:
You know what you did.
NotMax
Food? You’re playing my song.
There’s pancakes and then there’s pancakes.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: 63 yo and I’ve only been called for jury duty once. I didn’t even have to show up after I explained to the court clerk that I no longer lived in Crawford County.
Omnes Omnibus
@mrmoshpotato: I will cut you.
OzarkHillbilly
@Old Man Shadow:Bay leaves would have to be at the top of my list. Amazing what one little bay leaf can do for a dish.
NotMax
On topic, repeated from sometime previously here (emphasis added):
mrmoshpotato
@Immanentize: Garlic is fantastic. Though Aldi’s roasted garlic Alfredo sauce is offensively garlicky.
mrmoshpotato
@karen marie: The Get Curried recipe channel.
Oh, also, CookingSchooking
mrmoshpotato
@Omnes Omnibus: Diced, shredded?
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@OzarkHillbilly: according to rumor, if you leave the bayleaves still in in the dish when it is served, you automatically fail at the Cordon Bleu cooking school.
@JoyceH: Friend of mine was dating an Italian guy when he proposed they cook dinner at her house. She was anxiously awaiting learning the secrets of Italian cooking until she found him reading the pasta instructions from the back of the box.
@schrodingers_cat: sorry, most people don’t have “particular questions.” Indian food is like French food: clearly there’s decades of worth of entire cooking theory in there and it’s just scary for amateurs to touch it. However, I do have a question: are most dishes cooked at medium? Because in most cuisines, things are either on high (saute, or breath of the wok) or low (braise, or Instapot). But Indian cusine seems to call for most dishes to be cooked at medium temperature, which seems to be unusual.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Did someone say bigos?!
James E Powell
@Another Scott:
You should see the history book they want me to use.
schrodingers_cat
@Chacal Charles Calthrop:
Not really. There are many dishes where you start on high heat then bring everything to a simmer.
You cook some dishes on high heat and some on low. Depends on what you are trying to do.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@schrodingers_cat: this is why nobody has questions about Indian cooking; you have to already know how to cook a dish before you can have questions about it. I mean stuff like this:
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1021954-saag-paneer
schrodingers_cat
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: Can’t read it, I don’t subscribe to NYT anymore.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
Did you say pancakes?
schrodingers_cat
@Chacal Charles Calthrop:
Madhur Jaffrey’s books are easy to follow and she writes with the American audience in mind. I am basically self taught, and her books helped me a lot.
Although one advantage I did have was that I had a good idea about what the finished products should taste like
Chacal Charles Caltrop
@schrodingers_cat: basically it just says cook all the chopped up spinach & spices at medium low.
I really think it’s just a braise, only a raise of chopped-up veggies doesn’t take very long.
schrodingers_cat
@Chacal Charles Caltrop: NYT’s Indian recipes are so so. I would consult Madhur Jaffrey.
eachother
Open thread test.
new device
Emma
For those who don’t mind consulting their phone while cooking, there’s an app called “Indian Recipes.” I have no idea who writes them, other than a nameless, faceless team, but I’ve tried some of their dishes and was quite happy with the results.
Origuy
@zhena gogolia: In the Middle Ages, pigs were often turned loose in the forest to forage for acorns, chestnuts, etc. Jamón Ibérico is still made from pigs fed this way.
Steeplejack
@eachother:
You don’t have to put “Balloon-Juice” in the Website field. That’s only if you have your own site that you want to promote.