Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

So fucking stupid, and still doing a tremendous amount of damage.

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

How stupid are these people?

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

I don’t recall signing up for living in a dystopian sci-fi novel.

Human rights are not a matter of opinion!

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

When I was faster i was always behind.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Many People Are Saying…

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Many People Are Saying…

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… That both President Joe and Representative AOC are much better at communications than their critics believe…

Counter-argument (which, presumably, appeals to people whose businesses deduct the cost of their Wall Street Journal subscription):

Reader Interactions

305Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Shoutout to the people who hold it against her that inequality wasn’t solved last night, or who suggest that this one appearance is the sum of her work.

    This is how we treat Democrats generally, isn’t it? “Why should we vote for Democrats if they haven’t solved everything yet?”

  2. 2.

    Immanentize

    Your daily reminder: there really are very few family farms left in the country. Such small scale farming is now acomplished by what we used to call “share croppers.”

  3. 3.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: Its worse than the normal “do something!”  in her case — “Ha ha she spent 30K to go to a party with rich people.”

  5. 5.

    debbie

    Speaking of the rich, congratulations to California for the recall results. Now, figure out the cost of the recall to the taxpayers to illustrate the waste in terms of dollars and send the bill to the state GOP organization.

  6. 6.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
    Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
    While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,
    Shouting the battle cry of freedom!

  7. 7.

    Baud

    DHS expects about 700 people to show for pro-Trump D.C. rally Saturday, official says
    A DHS official said “tens of thousands” of protesters attended the pro-Trump rally that turned violent Jan. 6, but 700 were expected Saturday.

    I hope they are correct.

     

    “Pro-Trump” however is am euphemism for “sedition” however.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    Your reminder that a lot of ordinary income GOP base members who aren’t going to be affected by the tax increases will claim to be devastated by the tax increases.

    Also, too, a lot of rich Republicans who will be affected will pretend to be struggling working people.

  13. 13.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: Sadly not that many. Organic farming is really expensive — it takes years to change the soil to get an organic certification. Farms are now not trying to go into organic growing but “natural.” No GMO, natural fertilizers, etc. instead of organic. Only the big corps can afford to go there.

    Yes, maybe I am thinking about getting a small ex-farm somewhere.

  16. 16.

    Chief Oshkosh

    “Tax the rich?” Those dud Dems, always with the half measures…”Eat the rich” – now THAT will get the juices flowing.
    /s…?

  18. 18.

    debbie

    @Immanentize:

    A couple of friends of mine have tried, so, yes, very difficult. Certainly beyond my energies. But I would think practically all of the farmers at all of the farmer’s markets across the country would be included. Am I taking your use of “share croppers” too literally?

  22. 22.

    Immanentize

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    How about Hang the rich?

    I turned around, and she said
    “Why do you always end up down at Nick’s Cafe?”
    I said, “Uh, I don’t know, the wind just kinda pushed me this way”
    She said, “Hang the rich”

    — Crazy River

  23. 23.

    Kay

    There’s a lot of joy in AOC, it came through at the beginning and ever since and it’s why people are attracted to her. Underrated in D politics, IMO. She loves her job and she’s good at it.

  24. 24.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: ask farmers at farmers markets — a lot of them are renting other people’s land. I just had a great Convo with some youngs who were doing just that -+ happy weird specialty in garlic.

  26. 26.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @debbie: ABC is reporting the recall cost is $300M. I’m sure CalFire could’ve found a use for $300M. Given that the recall hotspots and the fire hotspots overlapped a lot (according to my Cali acquaintances), I’d hit on that hard, reminding everyone that the 27%ers are costing us all money, lives, hopes, and dreams. Sure they’d whine, but heck, they’re whining anyway and it’s finally becoming a big turn-off.

  31. 31.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Good question. Of all people, Morning Joe was on this. Admittedly, he was whinging about how the Democrats are failing us by not going after unearned income, but at least it’s out there now.

    As is my won’t, my druther is to first explore what Morning Joe’s portfolio looks like.

  32. 32.

    Patricia Kayden

    Yep

    Tonight's win in California proves that DEMs can win when we're organized and we get the vote out. We MUST replicate that to expand our Senate majority in 2022. Your RT and small donation supports our efforts. t.co/x88W3t0Z9O— BrooklynDad_Defiant! (@mmpadellan) September 15, 2021

  34. 34.

    MomSense

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I keep forgetting to tell you that the daughter of one of my bestest friends has a new YA book out.  If You, Then Me by Yvonne Woon.
    Her mom gave me a copy and I’m hoping to actually sit down and read it this weekend.

  47. 47.

    Sean

    I was wondering about the debt ceiling (as I have been for the last several weeks). If we get close enough to default and reconciliation isn’t a vehicle that will work and GOP is filibustering every other voting option, can’t dems carve out a filibuster exception for JUST the debt ceiling votes? (As the senate previously did for judicial and cabinet nominees?) would Manchin stand in the way of saving the global economy on one vote? Is that possible? I’m just hoping there is an escape hatch, especially if GOP forces us into default.

  49. 49.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Baud: This is how we treat Democrats generally, isn’t it? “Why should we vote for Democrats if they haven’t solved everything yet?”

    That’s an oddly common human line of thought, I do customer repair and the attitude from both management and the customer is always “if you were any good at your job the unit would have never broke in the first place”

  51. 51.

    Baud

    Six major climate provisions in congressional Democrats’ massive budget bill could slash US greenhouse gas emissions by nearly 1 billion tons per year by 2030, a new analysis from the nonpartisan Rhodium Group found.

    It would be comparable to removing all passenger vehicles from the road, or the yearly greenhouse gas emissions of Texas and Florida combined, according to the analysis.

  53. 53.

    evodevo

    @Immanentize: ​
      Yep. In KY, burley tobacco was grown by families with as little as an acre or two, and by larger farms also. it was a cash crop that contributed billions to the state income, and allowed several of my friends to attend college, when they wouldn’t have otherwise. It was a price supported govt. crop. Since Moscow Mitch negotiated the “buyout”, if you grow tobacco today, you grow it on contract with the big companies, who pay you whatever they feel like. Almost no one grows it nowadays, as I can see when I run my mail route and look at a hundred fallow former tobacco fields. The land is being broken up into 5 or 10 acre lots and sold off for houses. Very few family farms nowadays, even in the mostly rural counties.

  55. 55.

    raven

    @Immanentize: My bride is on her way out to harvest the last of her butterbeans. Our friend moved back to his farm when covid hit and LA became a nightmare. He owns the property and does quite a business supplying high end eateries here.

  58. 58.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

     Ever wonder if all of the famous people that end up on the red carpet at the Met Gala actually buy their tickets? For the most part, they don’t. Here’s how it works. The team at Vogue makes a list of just about everyone that’s hot at the moment, including musicians like Rihanna, actors and actresses like Zendaya, and models like the Hadid sisters. Then, they suggest to the various fashion houses attending to invite them as their guests. Yes, famous people really do get everything for free—even seats at charity events.

    That’s what I thought. Further research shows only 700 are invited and the guest list has to be signed off by Anna Wintour (aka The Devil Wears Prada)

    So people carping that AOC spent $50K are …. (checks notes) wrong.

  59. 59.

    NotMax

    Memo to self:

    Locales in California around which to detour.

    While the recall of Gov. Gavin Newsom was quickly defeated at a statewide level, initial results indicate that most voters in more than two dozen counties — largely rural ones in central and Northern California — supported the recall strongly.

    A majority of voters in 25 of 58 counties across California had voted in favor of the recall as of 11 p.m. Tuesday, according to state figures.
    [snip]
    The largest margin in favor of the recall came in Lassen County, where 82.9% of voters opted to remove Newsom from office, with all precincts reporting. Lassen County has about 30,000 residents.

    Other counties voting in favor of the recall were: Del Norte, Siskiyou, Modoc, Shasta, Tehama, Butte, Plumas, Sierra, Yuba, Sutter, Glenn, Colusa, El Dorado, Amador, Calaveras, Stanislaus, Tuolumne, Mariposa, Madera, Fresno, Kings, Tulare, Inyo and Kern.

    Meanwhile, Democratic strongholds along the coast turned out overwhelmingly in support of keeping n Newsom. In Los Angeles County, 73.6% of voters rejected the recall, while 86.7% did the same in San Francisco County, according to state figures. Source

  61. 61.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Patricia Kayden: It also underscores what happens when the Democrats makes it a point of explaining what kind of fruit loop their Republican opponent is and the problems that causes.

  65. 65.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Chief Oshkosh: Also those fires are happening were they live. Apparently Red California thinks the solution to the Fire Crises is tax cuts for the 1%. Just damn stupid and useless stoner hillbillies.

  66. 66.

    schrodingers_cat

    I am sorry but politics as performance art by a sitting Congresswoman does not impress me. And that gown was fugly. Also, putting tax the rich on your butt and partying with wealthy Democrats is hardly the stuff of revolutions.

    If she really wants to tax the rich she can write legislation to do something about it. Aren’t they marking up a huge budget bill right now in Congress.

    BTW Who paid for her $30,000 ticket?

    I like Congresswomen who do the work they are elected to do. 

    Rep. Underwood does not get 1/10 th traction in the media or on the Balloon Juice first page.

    Yesterday BC was apoplectic because she thought I was accusing her of being racist when I said the there were no posts on Neera Tanden’s OMB nom being rejected due to the machinations of Manchin and his cranky buddy from VT who runs the Committee.

    The Trump years have made me realize how much the media including blogs and leftist Twitter privilege the views of white people. The one that can afford tickets to the Met Gala and the ones who like to read about it on blogs and other media. AOC is their darling, while Rep. Underwood is not when she  actually won a purple district and is a darn good legislator.

    So time and time again the media, the blogs, including this one focus on what matters to one demographic, letting us know that the rest of us are chopped liver. It is not really that different from NYT and its fucking diner stories. And if you point it out they will say how dare you even point this out.

  67. 67.

    Anne Laurie

    @Chief Oshkosh: “Tax the rich?” Those dud Dems, always with the half measures…”Eat the rich” – now THAT will get the juices flowing.

    Hand to goddess, I saw tweets quoted last night that said exactly that — and not sarcastically, either.

    AOC had betrayed the movement by allowing her message to be reduced to half measures!!!1!!  So much for Demon-crats!

    (N.B.: I don’t think those embittered tweeters were ever Democrats, frankly.)

  70. 70.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Larry Elder Claims Widespread Evidence of Him Losing

    SACRAMENTO, California (The Borowitz Report)—After the polls closed in California’s recall election, the G.O.P. candidate Larry Elder claimed that there was “widespread evidence” of him losing to Governor Gavin Newsom.

    Detailing his accusations, Elder alleged a “vast conspiracy” involving millions of Californians, designed to deny him a victory.

    “I had people stationed at polling places across the state and they came back with truly shocking reports of people voting for Newsom,” he said. “Now, lo and behold, Newsom is being declared the winner. Coincidence? I don’t think so.”

    via commentor CSK over at OTB

  71. 71.

    J R in WV

    Even if Alexandria Ocazio-Cortez had spent $35,000 on a ticket, and spent $15,000 on a designer dress. that would still have been very cost effective.

    Everyone was talking about her “Tax the Rich” text on that designer dress, way more Buzz than $50,000 worth of ad buys! She is  a high-energy and attractive person with very quick wits, perhaps only second to Jen Psaki as far as quick witted in DC!

  78. 78.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah, but now everyone is talking about “tax the rich.” AOC has a skillset, and she’s using it. Underwood has a different skillset, and she’s using it. I’m happy to take both wins.

  79. 79.

    Anne Laurie

    @Immanentize: I’m been seeing American farming categorized into three tiers:  Hobby/home (micro)farms; share-cropped farms permanently indebted to the big ag companies; and ‘agro-factories’, where the corporations have decided it’s cheaper to cut out the middlemen.

    If we’re going to survive as a species, “we” need to squeeze the corporations and grow the smallest farms, but from what I read (not much) the middle tier of professional farmers have been trained to consider the ‘hippies’ their enemies and the corporations their natural leaders.  As with so many fields of American society!

  80. 80.

    Low Key Swagger

    @schrodingers_cat: I think the ticket purchase thing has been addressed.  My question is why not embrace both types of Dems?  We need messaging, and it has to be somewhat in your face messaging or it gets lost in the noise from the Right and it’s enormous apparatus.  I think AOC has grown into the job…not fully, but she is real and she has appeal with a demographic we need.

  83. 83.

    Steeplejack

    The plague at Sighthound Hall seems to be burning out. My brother reports that he and his husband have “turned the corner,” although they are still coughing and feeling very tired. The kids and the dog remain asymptomatic. They’re all staying in Rehoboth Beach through the weekend, because the BIL and the kids don’t come off the D.L. until then.

  87. 87.

    SFAW

    @Kay: 

    There’s a lot of joy in AOC, it came through at the beginning and ever since and it’s why people are attracted to her. Underrated in D politics, IMO. She loves her job and she’s good at it.

    You just don’t understand! She’s a publicity hound (or something); why can’t she just write tons of important legislation, without opening her mouth??!?!?!

  89. 89.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Chief Oshkosh: There is always the “service” side of Customer Service and Repair then…

    Tech “So what is the failure?”

    Customer “It’s broke”

    Tech “Broke…symptoms?”

    Customer “I don’t know, it’s broke, like I said. I think it doesn’t turn on, or something.”

    Later

    Tech “Ok, Sir, here is your unit, fixed and tested”

    Customer “What was wrong?”

    Tech “Well,  the…”

    Customer “BORING!”

  90. 90.

    Low Key Swagger

    @Anne Laurie: Struggling with this as we speak.  We own roughly seventy acres of some pretty farmable land.  We could even support small livestock operations and I have wondered about how to make use of this land and this infrastructure. It’s all I can do to keep it from getting overgrown…I basically mow or brush hog these acres from April to October.  I’m too old to farm, and wasn’t raised in a farming community.  We can sell and have a very comfortable retirement…this area of Tennessee is growing remarkably fast and we have developers nipping at our heels.  I used to grow hay for our horses, but with the price of diesel fuel and fertilizer, it’s actually cheaper to buy what we need.  We don’t want to sell, so we are looking for a like minded partner/s to help us keep this small farm viable.  It’s our only shot.

  91. 91.

    schrodingers_cat

    AOC and her antics are electoral poison for Ds in districts that are not the deepest shade of blue. But go on AOC stans. Tell me more about how her Insta Stories and tweets are more important than doing actual work.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    It’s perfectly fine to not like or disagree with AOC, but I’m confused about how Underwood became her foil.   Is there some beef between them?

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack

    @raven:

    I can remember my mom (born in 1930 in rural Tennessee) occasionally using that phrasing when talking about people in the Depression.

    Wikipedia:

    By the early 1930s, there were 5.5 million white tenant farmers, sharecroppers and mixed cropping/​laborers in the United States; and 3 million blacks. In Tennessee, sharecroppers operated approximately one third of all farm units in the state in the 1930s, with white people making up two thirds or more of the sharecroppers.

  100. 100.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Black women on Twitter (some of whom I follow) have been pointing out the widely disparate treatment two young Congresswomen from the class of 2018 have gotten from the media. I am just following their lead

  101. 101.

    narya

    @Low Key Swagger: Reach out to Chris Covelli at Tomato Mountain Farms. That’s the owner of my CSA; he might be able to hook you up. At one point there was a list run by maybe the Cornucopia Institute where people who had land to farm and people looking for land to farm could be hooked up w/ each other.

    ETA: He’s in Wisconsin, but it’s a very interconnected community.

  102. 102.

    SFAW

    Meanwhile, according to CNN, the Show-Me Seditionist* (Hawley) has said that unless Tony Blinken, Lloyd Austin, and Jake Sullivan (National Security Advisor) resign, he will place a hold on every civilian nominee for the State and Defense Departments.

    It’s kinda too bad the 1/6 insurrectionists didn’t mistake him for Pence or Pelosi or AOC. Asshole might be singing a different tune. [Just kidding; he’ll be a piece-of-shit asshole until his dying day.]

     

    * Yeah, it’s alliterative, but it’s not a great appellation. Suggestions? I know efg would have something pithy.

  105. 105.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: I learned a lot from our Secretary of Agriculture in one of Jen Psaki’s briefings last week.  They are making regulations  to help the small farmers.  I was impressed.

    It really struck me that he is making the most of this second chance at being Ag Secretary to right some wrongs, and try to remedy mistakes he made the first time around.

  113. 113.

    Starfish

    @Immanentize: “Natural” has no real or enforceable meaning, so I really do not believe people advertising their stuff as natural. People can spend the money on getting the Non-GMO project label on their product, but I think the process is expensive.

    The organic farms around me are 100 acre farms. To have actual money-making farms, it seems like you need 1000 acres.

    With climate change, I am not sure that choosing to be GMO-free and having lower yields is going to keep farming going. Due to the droughts in western Colorado, half the money for the fruit share of our organic CSA is going to be refunded because the fruit is not going to happen. We had both droughts and spring frosts that kill at least the flowers and possibly the trees. I am not sure how viable some of these farms are going to be.

  114. 114.

    SFAW

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I do customer repair and the attitude from both management and the customer is always “if you were any good at your job the unit would have never broke in the first place”

    Well, if you DID do your job properly, those customers wouldn’t keep breaking again after you (allegedly) “repaired” them.

  115. 115.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I have no objection to AOC. Her district likes her, and she seems willing to learn from people like Pelosi. She makes a good target though–WOC, pretty, young, cheeky. She obviously doesn’t know her place. That riles a lot of people, and not just Republicans.

    Mind you, I know she’s not perfect.

  119. 119.

    germy

    Designer of AOC’s gown:

    fastcompany.com/90676272/meet-the-visionary-designer-behind-aocs-tax-the-rich-dress

    WHO IS AURORA JAMES?
    If you’re unfamiliar with James, it’s time to remedy that. She was born in the Toronto suburbs to a father from Ghana and a Canadian mother. She spent her twenties traveling throughout Africa, where she was fascinated by local artisans who were experts at making leather shoes. In 2013, she launched the label Brother Vellies, a luxury brand that could highlight these shoe-makers’ work. When I spoke with James earlier this year, she explained that she built the business slowly. “I only had $3,500 and I was selling these shoes in flea markets around New York,” she told me.

  120. 120.

    Starfish

    @Gin & Tonic: In addition to that, she is going out to districts and helping people with their local fundraisers.

    She is doing the work and going to the parties, and people are letting their hatred of leftists get in the way of their ability to acknowledge that.

  122. 122.

    Starfish

    @germy: A person who spent her 20s traveling around Africa is lying when she says she only had $3500 when she was selling shoes. Rich people love some self-made millionaire myths.

  123. 123.

    Gin & Tonic

    @SFAW: The idea that one Senator out of a hundred can essentially block the functioning of entire Cabinet departments is completely absurd.

  124. 124.

    Kay

    @SFAW:

    House Democrats probably have 400 tax the rich bills gathering dust. They have one right now.

    this idea that she “doesn’t do the work” is silly. The issue isn’t “not enough tax proposals”

    they’re lousy with tax proposals. Any Democrat could  pull one off a shelf. They have to sell it.

  126. 126.

    jonas

    @Anne Laurie: ​
      Year before last during the primaries, Elizabeth Warren would get standing ovations on the stump in deep red Trump country pledging to break up Big Ag — the packing houses, seed companies, and food conglomerates that have basically turned the modern farmer into a miserable, indebted sharecropper. Any Dem running for office in an ag state and/or at the national level needs to be beating this drum over and over and beating their Republican opponents — who are invariably completely in the pockets of Big Ag — like rented mules over it. A lot of rural farm voters may still shrug and pull the R lever because GUNZZ! and the abortion or whatever, but they may actually hesitate and think for a moment before doing so, and that’s some progress.

  127. 127.

    RSA

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  I don’t know how I feel about a story in which getting rid of the handicap is a major plot element.

    In the first Percy Jackson novel, the hero’s dyslexia is explained by his brain trying to read magical script and getting confused–his disability is only there, on Earth, because he’s a god (or something like that).  It’s not a major element, but it happens early enough in the story that it stands out.  I wondered whether it was a good idea to write about disabilities in that way in a YA book; I don’t know.

  132. 132.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @RSA: I remember that from the Percy Jackson books. They’re middle grade, meaning aimed at a slightly younger audience. Often that means the adventures are treated with more humor, which maybe suggests none of this should be taken seriously? I don’t know either.

  134. 134.

    Anne Laurie

    @schrodingers_cat: I feel a little guilty about *not* front-paging Neera Tanden’s nomination more… problem was, I collected literally pages of embeds, but every time I tried to bricolage something readable, my hatred of the Cosplay Socialists caused my eyes to cross and my circuits to fuse!

    As for Lauren Underwood, she seems to be a very good Representative (too), but her district is not AOC’s.  Remember, AOC’s district does not include the zip codes of Met Gala attendees… but those same attendees have funds which her mostly working-class voters don’t, and they can be finessed / bullied into helping pay for projects that *are* in her district.  Ms. Underwood may not get as much attention from the (NYC based) media, but yes, I do think her hard work will be rewarded by her constituents, if only with their continued loyalty!

  135. 135.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: AOC and her antics are electoral poison for Ds in districts that are not the deepest shade of blue.

    I love when a DEM uncritically repeats GOP talking points. Warms the cockles of my heart, it does.

  136. 136.

    Sibsole

    @Baud: It’s certainly how Bernie’s internet fandom has treated everyone else, ‘lo these last 5 years. Hence a lot of the exasperared anger she’s getting on Twitter.

    I really cannot overstate just how boneheaded it was for Bernie to put a bunch of scumbag internet troll-grifters in charge of comms. They have pretty well annihilated any good will with the base, and done some real damage in other quarters.

    You don’t get to bash Pelosi for having $10 ice cream, spit on Clinton for taking political donations, rake Beto over the coals for getting money from oil company employees, call Biden a senile rapist, rip on VP Harris as an out of touch blood-soaked aristo laughing in her wine cave, and then spin your luxurious evening with the Cinderella Peerage as some blue collar crusade…

    The brocialists set the standard for honest politicians at sack-cloth and ashes. Now they get to live with it.

    If only someone had warned ’em.

  139. 139.

    jonas

    I’m sorry, I don’t think it’s fair to say AOC doesn’t “do the work”. From what I can tell, she’s one of the hardest-working members of Congress, including with constituent services. Her politics and tactics at times are not everyone’s cup of tea, to be sure, but I don’t think it’s fair to slag her as some poseur for wearing a provocative dress this one time at an event in her own city where nearly every other prominent NYC pol was also in attendance and wearing something creative and provocative is expected.

  140. 140.

    SFAW

    @prostratedragon:

    It seems (to me, at least) that the “beef” is that Underwood doesn’t get the publicity she deserves, and AOC gets more publicity than she may deserve, and that AOC is believed to be less productive than Underwood. [FYI: Underwood has sponsored 53 items, cosponsored another 500; AOC has sponsored 38, cosponsored 720. Ayanna Pressley (Boston and ‘burbs), who apparently doesn’t have the cachet of Underwood, has sponsored 66, cosponsored 997.]

  142. 142.

    Geminid

    @Baud: There is no beef between Representatives Underwood and Ocasio-Cortez. The beef is between Ocasio-Cortez’s fans and those who believe Underwood and other less famous Representatives are as or even more valuable than the New York City Congresswoman.

    Ocasio-Cortez entered Congress an order of  maginitude more famous than any others in her cohort, the class of 2018. This was a very talented group of people that included Deb Haaland (NM), Veronica Escobar (TX), Joe Neguse (CO), Elaine Luria (VA) and many other talented and capable Representatives including Lauren Underwood (IL). These others may prove to be more effective in the long run than Ocasio-Cortez.

    I cannot blame Ocasio-Cortez and her supporters for making the most of her popularity. But it is a legitimate question to ask: is the Congresswoman from the Bronx famous because she is effective, or effective because she is famous?

    Part of the problem may be a attitude of cynicism about politicians in general. Some people think “stars” like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Katie Porter are invaluable, but still think of the rest of their capable Democratic Representatives as chopped liver. But personally, I tend to put Representatives like Underwood and Luria on a par with Ocasio-Cortez and Porter. And in terms of electoral stategy, I consider Porter, Underwood and Luria more valuable than Ocasio-Cortez because they flipped red districts, which Ocasio-Cortez could not have done.

  143. 143.

    germy

    @Starfish:

    I admire her achievements.  Your mileage may vary

    If she has rich parents, as you suggest, she could have gone the Ivanka or Tiffany route.

    Instead, she worked to empower artisans around the world.

  146. 146.

    Starfish

    @Baud: Some of the first-time Congresswomen who came in at the same time as “the squad” get a lot less attention. I think AOC gets the most attention not only because she is young, light-skinned, and attractive but also because New York is the center of the media universe.

    Ilhan Omar gets attention because of Islamophobia, mostly.

    I think Underwood works quietly because she is from a district that is more middle of the road. No one is asking her if she prefers to work quietly when they get grudgy about “Why is she not as visible as AOC?” Some people from centrist districts prefer to work quietly.

    No one wants to be tied to AOC and Ilhan Omar and thrown into the ocean.

    The party itself is not responsible for the amount of media time some members of the squad get.

    I am going to the 43rd Annual Tribute to Black Women Luncheon here in Colorado because someone I know is winning an award, and the guest speakers are going to be Maxine Waters and Ayanna Presley (who is also a member of the squad and doing excellent work by supporting folks outside of her district.)

    The performative way that some people love to hate on the squad is too much.

  147. 147.

    Anne Laurie

    @Starfish: A person who spent her 20s traveling around Africa is lying when she says she only had $3500 when she was selling shoes.

    Can’t speak to the specifics of A. James’ biography, but if she had family in Ghana, I can see her travelling back & forth cheaply, finding artisans, and then getting her relatives to ship her small-volume ‘product’ to sell in NYC.    It’s not uncommon for immigrants / children of immigrants living in big, rich cities.

  149. 149.

    SFAW

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Hunh, I guess I misread things, because the list of her sponsored bills/amendments/resolutions (as opposed to co-sponsored) doesn’t appear to include any PO renaming. I gotta work on my basic (il)literacy.

  151. 151.

    WaterGirl

    @Low Key Swagger: Do some reading about the new regulations coming out of the Dept of Ag.  Or find Jen Psaki’s press conference from last week where she had the Sec. of Agriculture talk at the beginning.  it sure sounded to me like there are changes that will fix some of the inequality between big and small farmers.

    Check it out.

  152. 152.

    topclimber

    @schrodingers_cat: Tax the rich is a message that works in many districts. It may be the most unifying message in America.

    You keep on saying AOC doesn’t do the “real” job, but never show the receipts. She seems well prepared at Congressional hearings, and just showed impressive constituent service after IDA, when her team made more than 100K calls.

    Maybe the Green New Deal will never come close to being enacted, but it is part of a many-pronged effort that will bring climate change legislation to the fore.

    Yes indeed the media should pay more attention to Congressional work horses. How is that AOC’s fault?

  153. 153.

    Starfish

    @germy: I am not railing against her in specific. I am railing more against the myth of being self-made like the myth of lone scientists doing amazing things in isolation. A lot of the people who are allowed to achieve very impressive and large things are allowed to do that because of money.

  154. 154.

    sab

    @Starfish: Accusation of lyimg based on what?  I had a high school friend who did the same on about $1500 in the 1980s. And he really did do it, and it was fucking hard, but possible.

  156. 156.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Walker: I have not. I just looked at it on Amazon. Does the woman who lost the use of her legs recover them? The summary talks about her hope for recovery. I hesitate about handicaps being magically removed too. I found writing about a handicapped character to be tricky in ways I didn’t anticipate.

  157. 157.

    Baud

    In one sense, I’m glad the media is less focused on people “doing the work,” because the media would just spend all its time nitpicking and scandalizing the normal day-to-day activities of the messy process of governing.

    Politico’s business plan in particular seems to revolve around this approach.

  158. 158.

    sab

    @OzarkHillbilly: In Ohio the only people who even notice AOC are young men who think she is hot. I have no problem with them noticing her because they will also notice her message.

  159. 159.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid:

    I cannot blame Ocasio-Cortez and her supporters for making the most of her popularity.

    I can, because she often uses her popularity to shit on other Democrats, Democrats who are in much tougher districts and races than she is, Democrats we need to hold majorities, and her out-of-district work is often committed to promoting candidates and ideas that are/ would be bad for candidates who aren’t in D +30 districts.

  161. 161.

    jonas

    @Immanentize: ​
      Yep — the USDA organic regs were written by huge Ag companies who could afford to jump through all the hoops and purposely throw up barriers to entry for smaller producers. None of the small farmers we buy from in our CSA are USDA-certified organic, but all farm organically for all practical purposes. We’ve seen their operations (couple of acres at the most) in person and know they take it seriously.

  164. 164.

    germy

    @topclimber:

    How can they advance the liberal agenda when they’re too busy renaming post offices?

    We’re up to about 100 post offices now.  Workmen arrive in the middle of the night, and in the morning there’s all these shiny new signs.

  165. 165.

    Soprano2

    @schrodingers_cat: BTW Who paid for her $30,000 ticket?

    I’m not a huge AOC fan – I think she has a skill set that can be useful, but she doesn’t seem to actually do much so far. I know about Lauren Underwood – I’ve seen her on Maddow a few times, and she’s impressive and certainly doing the hard work of legislating. However, I hate criticisms like this one. Why are Democrats expected to live in hovels and wear rags in order to be authentic? I can afford to have season tickets to our symphony for me and my husband – does that mean I’m not really a Democrat anymore? We say we are a big tent and embrace all comers, yet we snipe at people in this way, implying that anyone who has a sizable amount of money cannot possibly be a real Democrat. It’s buying into Republican framing, and I hate it when our side does it.

  166. 166.

    prostratedragon

    @SFAW:  [sigh] In other words, they’re all pretty hardworking.

    What I meant above is that there’s been no sign of tension in their interactions with each other, that I’m aware of. Third parties will say as they will.

    ETA: Or as Geminid says @142.

  167. 167.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    That example is not at all illustrative of what you said. Try again.

    Actually, it’s perfectly illustrative of what she said. I know a lot of people want to believe AOC(!) is the future of the party– maybe she is, I’d be very glad if she is– but that future isn’t 2022, and it would’ve been a huge mistake if we listen to Herself (and Bernie, and Susan Sarandon, and Michael Moore… those names familiar?) and thrown an anchor named Nina Turner at Tim Ryan when he’s got an uphill, but possibly successful, shot at a Senate seat.

  169. 169.

    Starfish

    @sab: She spent her twenties traveling around Africa. Do you know what type of person doesn’t do that? The type of person who needs a job.

  170. 170.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    In a couple of books, I’m planning a Supervillain series book where the main character is made of glass.  Her power lets her fix herself, but she breaks constantly and lives a life where she has to move slowly and be careful and sedentary to reduce the pain to manageable levels.  This makes her uniquely tempted when she gets an offer to turn into a rampaging giant monster,

  172. 172.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Soprano2: I don’t think that Ds should take a vow of poverty.

    When your whole schtick is hating the rich, asking for revolution it comes off as a tad hypocritical.

    DSA roses dunked on Nancy Pelosi for having premium ice-cream in her freezer for weeks. Its the pretense that is off-putting.

  173. 173.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, I was trying to be kind, and trying to emulate the dispassionate approach of my new Muse, @Mangy Jay.*

    But it is true that Ocasio-Cortez is a player in the intra-party war between “progressives” and moderates, and has to take what she dishes out in this arena.

    *I was interested to see that in her Twitter header, the toughtful @Mangy Jay now includes her actual name, Magdi Semrau.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    DSA roses dunked on Nancy Pelosi for having premium ice-cream in her freezer for weeks. Its the pretense that is off-putting.

    I don’t know if AOC dunked on Pelosi for that, but I agree that those who did are hypocrites (although some of them may have dunked on AOC as well for the Met gala, given some of the tweets in the OP).

  175. 175.

    prostratedragon

    @Geminid: hey flipped red districts
    Red and in Underwood’s case awfully darn white. Yet they seem happy enough with her to have sent her back for a second term. They have different styles, but my impression of Ocasio-Cortez is that she has as much appetite for homework as most in her cohort, so I wouldn’t sell short her chances for influence in the long run.

  176. 176.

    SFAW

    @prostratedragon:

    Wasn’t slamming you, apologies if it came across that way. My intent was to note that AOC apparently also “does the work,” as does the unheralded (outside of Boston, including this joint) Ayanna Pressley.

  177. 177.

    sab

    @Starfish: She had a job, selling their shoes in US flea markets. That’s what my friend did too (handmade jewelry, not shoes.) It’s hard, but it can be done.

  178. 178.

    geg6

    @Jonad: ​
     
    I’m not in OH, but the GQP will be whinging about it here in PA, too. As someone who knows quite a few small farmers here, the idea that there are countless $1million+ small farms here is hilariously inaccurate.

  181. 181.

    WaterGirl

    Wow, there is so much sniping at Democrats in this thread.

    I will always love Elizabeth Warren for her response when some late-night talk show host tried to get her to shit on Barack Obama because he didn’t name her to head the CFPB.  (consumer financial protection bureau)

    I’m saving the rocks in my pocket for the Republicans.

  182. 182.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid:

    Well, I was trying to be kind, and trying to emulate the dispassionate approach of my new Muse, @Mangy Jay.

    I’ve tried to stay out of it, but the absurd histrionics around this little stunt — a second thread about it? two days later? Really?– have me at severe risk of permanent ocular damage from involuntary eye-rolling

  183. 183.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: Why don’t you give me an example where she helped flip a district from red to blue.

    Why would I when I think she has very minimal to no effect on other races?

    In 2018 she campaigned against Sharice Davids in Kansas for a BS acolyte who eventually ended up losing.

    Did Sharice Davids lose? No. Once again your example is not illustrative of your statement. You said, “AOC and her antics are electoral poison for Ds in districts that are not the deepest shade of blue.” and in neither race did the more moderate DEM lose to a GOP.

    Your examples illustrate only that AOC is far more liberal than the people in those districts, not that it cost DEMs a seat.

  185. 185.

    germy

    @WaterGirl:

    Wow, there is so much sniping at Democrats in this thread.

    It’s all those renamed post offices.  It gets me so mad.

    Leave the damn post offices alone!

  186. 186.

    schrodingers_cat

    @OzarkHillbilly: No she campaigned for Sharice David’s opponent who lost. She was electoral poison for him and for Nina Turner as well (blue but with a black majority)

    So I should revise that by saying she is electoral poison anywhere except where white liberals are a big enough demographic to decide an election.

  190. 190.

    Geminid

    @prostratedragon: Underwood did win reelection in her suburban Chicagoland district, but it was a very close call. Her opponent, dairy baron Jim Oberweis, failed by a few thousand votes to unseat her. Oberweis, at 71 years old, was part of the Republican Election Committee’s “Young Guns” program.

  191. 191.

    Another Scott

    @zhena gogolia: Front pagers read what we write and often post things about it.  Nobody is stopping anyone from talking about Underwood or Spanberger or Pressley or anyone else on this free blog comment section…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  193. 193.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: what I said that she is not popular beyond the online left

    That’s not what you said tho, if you had I’d have no argument with you because that is true (well, that and the people in her district). Right now, I have seen no evidence of her costing a viable DEM an election, endorsing DEMs who can’t win a primary doesn’t count.

    I hear Republicans vilifying her at every turn, but if she isn’t on the ballot, the DEM who is is far more responsible for the result than AOC ever could be.

  194. 194.

    Served

    @Geminid: Underwood works hard and connects with people, and it shows in her ability to win in a district so conservative that a perennial loser Oberweiss can get that close just by having an R by his name.

    Thankfully, she is about to be rewarded with a much safer district for 2022.

  195. 195.

    Joe Falco

    @Geminid:

    Oberweis, at 71 years old, was part of the Republican Election Committee’s “Young Guns” program.

    To be fair, anyone younger than Strom Thurmond’s age before he died would be considered a “Young Gun” by Republican standards.

  196. 196.

    Soprano2

    All the stuff about family farms and the estate tax is bullshit. David Cay Johnson wrote a book about taxes where he went to Iowa to talk with farmers there about the estate tax. He said all of them told him that it didn’t affect them in the slightest, and that they thought it was funny how Republicans used it as a talking point. I can tell you from working on my mother’s estate that right now the exemption for a single person is almost 12 million dollars! How many true “family farms” will be valued at that amount? I think it’s double for a married couple, so that would be almost 24 million dollars. It’s all bullshit, the estate tax really only applies to the truly wealthy now. Plus, inheriting property right now wipes out a lot of capital gains, because you inherit at the base rate that existed when the person died. My mother bought her house in 1986, so I’m sure its value has appreciated a lot, but I inherit it at whatever it’s assessed at today; none of the gain it realized will ever be taxed.

  197. 197.

    schrodingers_cat

    @topclimber: Justice Democrats want to undermine the Democratic party I see them as a threat.

    Balloon Juice is a space dominated by white liberals where there other Democratic points of view are considered invalid or out there. When they are actually fairly mainstream if you look at the voting patterns of Democrats which is not a party dominated only by white liberals and has a huge black base. Biden would not have been the nominee if that was not the case.

  198. 198.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: She was electoral poison for him and for Nina Turner as well (blue but with a black majority)

    They were electoral poison in those districts. AOC had nothing to do with it.

  200. 200.

    Another Scott

    @schrodingers_cat: Politicians endorse other politicians.

    Other Turner endorsers:

    Senator Ed Markey, Massachusetts
    Senator Bernie Sanders, Vermont
    Rep. Ro Khanna, California’s 17th Congressional District
    Rep. Ted Lieu, California’s 33rd Congressional District
    Rep. Katie Porter, California’s 45th Congressional District
    Rep. Jesús “Chuy” García, Illinois’ 4th Congressional District
    Rep. Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts’ 7th Congressional District
    Rep. Andy Levin, Michigan’s 9th Congressional District
    Rep. Rashida Tlaib, Michigan’s 13th Congressional District
    Rep. Ilhan Omar, Minnesota’s 5th Congressional District
    Rep. Cori Bush, Missouri’s 1st Congressional District
    Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York’s 14th Congressional District
    Rep. Jamie Raskin, Maryland’s 8th District
    Rep. Jamaal Bowman, New York’s 16th Congressional District
    Rep. Mondaire Jones, New York’s 17th Congressional District
    Rep. Pramila Jayapal, Washington’s 7th Congressional District
    Rep. Mark Pocan, Wisconsin’s 2nd Congressional District

    We’re a big tent. If you want to highlight someone else, please do so.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  201. 201.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid:

    Oberweis, at 71 years old, was part of the Republican Election Committee’s “Young Guns” program.

    That’s hilarious. I remember when they first came up with that “young guns” thing. I had both feet firmly planted in middle age and I was younger than all of them but Ryan.

    I have family in that district and driving through there last fall (was it really only a year ago?) I was shocked at the number of Underwood signs in their neighborhood (Batavia, for those who know the area). That district has changed a lot in the last few years, but it was still a close run thing

  202. 202.

    Ken

    @germy: WHO IS AURORA JAMES?

    What an interesting story. It reminds me of how some of the great European fashion designers got started a century ago. But without the Nazi connections.

  203. 203.

    WaterGirl

    @germy:

    Every person comes with their own set of imperfections, and so does every politician.

    The Republicans do well enough with their talking points about our side.  I don’t think we need to help them by repeating Republican talking points.

    This is not a zero sum game.  We are shooting ourselves in the collective foot when we drag down other Democrats in order to raise up the people we favor.

    Why demonize people on our own side?

  204. 204.

    rikyrah

    Anyone else been following this story?

    It’s straight out of the movies.

    I have believed from the beginning that he stole from the wrong people. And, knows that they are coming for him.
    Police: Prominent SC lawyer arranged for man to kill him but was only grazed; arrest made

    by: Associated Press

    Posted: Sep 15, 2021 / 05:55 AM EDT / Updated: Sep 15, 2021 / 05:55 AM EDT

    COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — A prominent South Carolina lawyer who found the bodies of his wife and son three months ago, tried to arrange his own death earlier this month so his son would get a $10 million life insurance payment, but the planned fatal shot only grazed his head, state police said Tuesday.

    The shooter, Curtis Edward Smith, was charged with assisted suicide, insurance fraud and several other counts in the Sept. 4 shooting of Alex Murdaugh on a lonely highway in Hampton County, the State Law Enforcement Division said in a statement.

    cbs17.com/news/south/police-prominent-sc-lawyer-arranged-for-man-to-kill-him-but-was-only-grazed-arr…

  206. 206.

    geg6

    @rikyrah:

    As much as I am not a very big fan of AOC (and I donate to Underwood), I think this might be unfair to her.  From what I’ve read, she also does the work for her constituents.  Also, despite not being an incremental kind of person personally, she understands the need to be somewhat incremental in implementing policy on the nation.  And she definitely doesn’t deserve any criticism over this particular situation.  I thought it was pretty brilliant.

  208. 208.

    prostratedragon

    @Geminid:  Yep. Took about a week to establish the winning margin. But remember, that was more-or-less a gerrymander short of Hastert’s old district. With that figured in, might as well have been a landslide. Would have to look at the matter formally, but my impression is that attempts to dilute Chicago area black representation by gerrymandering districts has resulted in unexpected popularity of black politicians among white voters.

  209. 209.

    jonas

    @Soprano2:  This is exactly right — farms, which like many businesses enjoy enormously favorable tax benefits to begin with, even before we talk about subsidies, etc., have long been shielded from most inheritance taxes as well. If you have a farm or ranch that’s going to be subject to inheritance taxes, 1. you don’t have a good tax planner and 2. you’re fucking rich. Really rich. As in, your name is Ted Turner and your ranch covers several counties in Montana.

  210. 210.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Oddly enough, not all legislators are expert crafters of legislation (or have them on staff).  Many simply show up, do constituent service, and vote their party line.  Yep, most legislators are career back benchers.  Those who are not can excel at a variety of things, including but not limited to herding cats, raising money for the party, raising public awareness, and, of course, drafting legislation.  Those who make it the top over the years excel at a several of things.  Few can do everything.

    TL;DR:  There are places for AOCs and Underhills in Congress.

  211. 211.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @WaterGirl:

    Why demonize people on our own side?

    I am never gonna hold my fire against the anti-Democrat Left, even when they call themselves Democrats. They’ve done too much damage to the party, to say nothing of the country, in the last twenty years.

    Or against the likes of Lieberman and Manchin

    ETA: I’ve said before: People tell me I need to get over 2016, I respond I’m not over 2000. It’s not about grudges, it’s about learning from the mistakes, not to say the stupidity (cause I’m nice and civil and shit), of the past and not repeating them. I don’t think we’re doomed in 2022, but I also don’t think we can afford to be self-indulgent and pretend anything we don’t like is just “Republican talking points”

  212. 212.

    Mary G

    Rick Wilson always makes me happy when he points out that TFG’s oldest daughter and her creepy husband will never be invited to the Met Gala again. IvT has said that it’s her favorite event. Anna Wintour has myriad faults, but she’s a staunch Democrat and hates boring clothes, which is all White Supremacist Barbie has ever worn.

  213. 213.

    oldgold

    @Soprano2: Plus, if your family is actually farming the land, you can value the land using a “Special Use” formula that drastically reduces the value of the land for Federal Estate tax purposes.

    The  “family farm” being placed in jeopardy by the Federal Estate tax is a myth.

  214. 214.

    Frank Wilhoit

    Yesterday’s/nobody’s message.

    1.)  If someone has been getting a free ride, that is the problem, full stop.  Alleging that the free ride has been at the expense of {fillintheblank} does not strengthen the argument, it weakens it.

    2.)  I do want to punish success, because success is proof of crime.  If the law were enforced, every businessman would be out of business by nightfall.  They have been pursuing unaccountability, to the exclusion of every other goal, for more than a human lifetime, so that there is no longer anyone who remembers how or why to operate within the law.

  217. 217.

    Ken

    @WaterGirl: Wow, there is so much sniping at Democrats in this thread.

    Relief at the recall results has let everyone revert to form.

    Though had Newsom lost, I expect there would have been sniping, just with different targets.

  218. 218.

    sab

    @Soprano2: Not up to date on estate planning, but there used to be ( and probably is still) an exemption/ deduction for working small farms. If the family continues to work it as a farm for x number of years it is not taxed. 10 years, as I remember. If they sell it to a real estate developer it is taxed same as every other asset. Farm famulies hate that they can’t cash out tax free,  but if they keep on farming they aren’t taxed.

  220. 220.

    schrodingers_cat

    @WaterGirl: I don’t want the Democratic party to become a lefty version of the Republican party, the Green tea party is just as dangerous. Check out what is going on in  Nevada where the DSA took over the state party.

    2016 has shown us the damage a cult of personality can do

  223. 223.

    Geminid

    .   When Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders flew to Kansas to try to help Brent Welder beat Sharice Davids, they flew right past the Chicago district where Marie Neuman was trying hard to unseat dinosaur Dan Lipinski. Neuman came very close in a low turnout primary, and a little extra push would have helped her prevail. But the Justice Democrats on that plane flight, such as Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign manager, wanted to help Welder because he was part of the Sanders campaign of 2016. Neuman had been a Clinton supporter.

    Justice Democrats did throw their support behind Neuman last year, when she did not need it to retire Lipinski.

  224. 224.

    prostratedragon

    @rikyrah:  Wow, hadn’t seen this update. Still think there are other shoes to drop, considering wife was killed and son much more seriously injured, and yes, it sounds like a plot of one of the Vera stories I’ve been watching.

    ETA: I see the son was also killed. Thought I’d seen that he was injured but survived.

  226. 226.

    germy

    @schrodingers_cat:  Balloon Juice is a space dominated by white liberals where there other Democratic points of view are considered invalid or out there.

    Other points of view like calling the gown designed by a Black woman (whose father was born in Ghana) for a politician (whose mother was born in Puerto Rico) “fugly”?

  227. 227.

    sab

    @Another Scott: Nina Turner did herself a lot of good in national party circles by going to work quite visibly at MSNBC. Her problem is she completely  ignored her home town from then on. And that’s where her constituents lived. All politics is local, and she had been igjoring the locals for years.

  229. 229.

    WaterGirl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I am never gonna hold my fire against the anti-Democrat Left, even when they call themselves Democrats. They’ve done too much damage to the party, to say nothing of the country, in the last twenty years.

    I would argue that the anti-democratic left are not on our side.  Not every person with a D next to their name is on our side.

    But AOC is on our side, and Warren is on our side, and Pete Buttigieg is on our side, and Beto is on our side.  etc.

    I think we can not like something a politician has done (Katie Porter endorsing someone who does not appear to be on our side) without demonizing that person or writing them off entirely.  It’s possible to think that a politician screws some things up and yet still think they are good at their job.

  231. 231.

    Joe Falco

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I am never gonna hold my fire against the anti-Democrat Left, even when they call themselves Democrats.

    Seconded. They consider Democrats the enemy so I won’t give them the benefit of considering them a friend and ally.

  232. 232.

    Ken

    @oldgold: Plus, if your family is actually farming the land, you can value the land using a “Special Use” formula that drastically reduces the value of the land for Federal Estate tax purposes.

    You remind me, after TFG’s trade war with China did not work out as optimally as might have been hoped, the US government began shoveling lots of cash at the farmers who no longer had markets, drawing it from an emergency fund. For three years, which kind of belies the word “emergency”, and also drained the fund IIRC.

    My questions are, are the money faucets still open?  And, has the emergency fund been replenished, or will farmers get a nasty surprise when they ask for drought relief this year?

    I am pretty sure that the Chinese soybean market is still gone, and it will take more than eight months to rebuild — eight years is probably not enough. If I’m wrong, or if anyone has more information, please share.

  233. 233.

    Mike in NC

    Fuck Elderly Larry and every other Republican asshole. Larry was endorsed by pundit Victor Davis Hansen, AKA the “Fascist from Fresno”. Nobody ever heard of him until the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001, when Vic crawled out from under a rock to pass himself off as an expert on what the far-right wingnuts were calling Islamofascism. Yeah, the usual projection with those shitheads. It never got very much traction in our crappy media, however.

  234. 234.

    Another Scott

    @schrodingers_cat: Made me look.  The first one on that list has 26 co-sponsors and every one of them listed is from NY.

    Is naming post offices really worth getting upset about?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  235. 235.

    geg6

    @topclimber: ​
     
    For real. Not to mention how her Puerto Rican descent is being erased and lumped in with being “white” and “rich.” I’m sure a lot of my brown friends from Puerto Rico would be surprised at that.

  237. 237.

    WaterGirl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Or against the likes of Lieberman and Manchin

    Obstructing popular Democratic legislation – almost literally being the only thing standing in the way of hugely important Democratic programs – make a politician fair game, in my opinion.

    That’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m talking about trashing Dems because you don’t like a particular thing they said or did.

  239. 239.

    Mary G

    @Omnes Omnibus: This. Different people have different skills. Lauren Underwood’s Momibus legislation will help parents in all kinds of ways. AOC’s dress has taken much of the media’s attention away from the hearings on Biden’s handling of the Afghanistan withdrawal currently going on. We are lucky to have both of them. I am old enough to remember the days when female Congressmembers were rare birds, often wives finishing their dead husband’s terms. The thought of the big gang of women wearing white together at the 2019 State of the Union in front of TFG still makes me so happy.

  240. 240.

    Ken

    @Baud: When I’m president, each of you will get a post office named after you.

    Yay!  But can mine also act as a bank?  I’d even let people who can’t keep $500 in checking at all times, or use a post office box as mailing address, or don’t have a steady job to bank there, since they aren’t of interest to regular banks.

  241. 241.

    Another Scott

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: rofl.

    We’re talking about her because she’s in the news, because the media and Twitter want her to be in the news because it draws clicks.

    It’s summertime.

    It beats the Icebucket Challenge, doesn’t it??

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  242. 242.

    topclimber

    @schrodingers_cat: Good job finding 21 post office renamings she co-sponsored. This is a common courtesy between reps.

    Then there is this: the 31 pieces of legislation she has introduced.

    As always, you do a bang-up job of ignoring any evidence that doesn’t fit your slant.

  243. 243.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Starfish:

    She spent her twenties traveling around Africa. Do you know what type of person doesn’t do that? The type of person who needs a job.

    I know nothing about her backstory, but this is pretty unfair, IMO. My son spent large parts of his 20’s traveling around Eastern Europe and Asia, with no support from his parents. If you’re in your 20’s, you can travel pretty low to the ground – I recall he once told me what he’d budgeted, and I was very surprised. There were periods of work, and periods of travel, to the point where he had to get pages added to his passport. Once he reached age 30 (and had a girlfriend) he decided it was time to get serious, so took out a substantial loan and went to grad school – and the extensive travel background helped him both in admission and schoolwork in more ways than I can count. So I can pretty easily imagine someone with family ties in Africa spending a lot of time traveling there on a shoestring (as it were.)

  244. 244.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Ken:

    Yay!  But can mine also act as a bank?

    Bernie’s best idea and teh one that won’t seem to catch on anywhere

  245. 245.

    JaneE

    My taxes are close to if not the lowest they have been in my life. Would I have put money in an IRA or 401k if they had told me it would be taxed at the same rate after I retired instead of a “much lower” one? Probably, it comes from having parents who grew up in the Depression. When it comes down to it, I would have to go back and look but I may be paying a higher tax rate now than I did on some of my first contributions. I certainly never made the top tax bracket until they eliminated all the ones above me. Pardon me – they consolidated and widened the brackets. In other words they extended the range of the top tax burden to the middle class and lowered the rate so the top incomes made out like bandits.

    Until they redo the system to equalize the effective tax rates (LOL), let’s just bring back the rates from Ike’s administration.

  246. 246.

    Starfish

    @sab: It appears that you are right.

    The type of success she had is more and more unusual now than it has been in the past.

    Part of what we are suffering under right now is that the wealthy cannot fall out of their socio-economic class no matter how badly things go, and other people cannot rise no matter how hard they work. This is really a dagger in the heart of the “American Dream” that immigrants came to the US seeking.

  247. 247.

    sherparick

    @NotMax: This ranks very high in the cognitive dissonance & the strange stories we tell ourselves based on affinity. Lassen County very much depends on Government, both State & Federal. The National Parks & Forests, state parks & forests, etc. attract tourists and affluent second home owners.  And of course millions are being spent fighting the fires to protect their lives & property.  Lassen County Sheriff’s Office lifts some evacuation warnings – InciWeb the Incident Information System (nwcg.gov)   And of course it is human caused climate change that is making life harder and harder for these people. But they let grifters tell them to blame the Black, Brown, Asian, and tech liberals in the cities for their problems.

  251. 251.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: Not sure– there was a lot of overlap in their platforms. I thought it was one of his long-standing issues that he abandoned in favor of Wall St Speeches and STOP TPP!

  253. 253.

    Ken

    @Baud: Somewhere I got the idea that postal banking was already allowed, under some Depression-era law, but pressure from the banking industry (and their friends in the payday loan business) was blocking implementation. But that’s likely wrong.

  258. 258.

    Suzanne

    @Mary G:

    TFG’s oldest daughter and her creepy husband will never be invited to the Met Gala again. IvT has said that it’s her favorite event. Anna Wintour has myriad faults, but she’s a staunch Democrat and hates boring clothes, which is all White Supremacist Barbie has ever worn.

    This brings my cold, shitty heart a great deal of warmth.

    ETA: I love that AOC is considered a desirable guest at this event, but Ivanka has been dropped like it’s hot.

  261. 261.

    schrodingers_cat

    @germy: Not my aesthetic, FWIW I hate message tees as well and that font looked like chicken’s feet.

    The cut was fashionable the font made it ugly, hence fashionably ugly. Of course fashion is very personal so YMMV.

  263. 263.

    Edmund Dantes

    @Anne Laurie: people are also forgetting the reason AOC gets so much media is because the GOP picked her to be the replacement boogeyman for Nancy Pelosi.

    The liberal media just follows a lot of what bubbles up from the right wing media.

  264. 264.

    Geminid

    @prostratedragon: The same year that Lauren Underwood flipped her majority white Chicagoland district, Jahana Hayes, another Black woman, was elected to the blue Connecticut 5th district. Theat district is 72% white, 17% “Hispanic,” and 6.5% Black.

  265. 265.

    Suzanne

    @zhena gogolia: It is satisfying, but I don’t think AOC’s critics quite absorb how critical it is for “shifting the Overton window” that she got to go to this cool event with rich people and be straight-up about taxing them. Like it or not, we will not ever get to tax them without their consent. (Yeah, that is bullshit, but it is true.) It is clear that AOC is now seen as fairly aspirational among that cohort, and that is a good thing for the agenda.

    I know it’s dumb that people admire celebrities and good looks and that they have any influence at all, but they do. They set a lot of our ideas around what is normal-to-admirable, what is status-y.

  266. 266.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mike in NC:

    Larry was endorsed by pundit Victor Davis Hansen, AKA the “Fascist from Fresno”.

    I can never ever remember the difference between Victor Davis Hansen and Mark Victor Hansen. I mean, I know the difference, I just can’t ever remember which is which.

    Fortunately, I rarely require that knowledge, so I’ll try not to waste any further brainpower on it.

  267. 267.

    Miss Bianca

    @Chief Oshkosh: 

    Yeah. I may prefer Underwood’s style – keep under the radar and get shit done – but I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s a place for AOC’s style as well.

    People use the terms “show pony” vs. “workhorse”, with AOC often touted as an example of the former. Just want to remind everyone that an actual, successful “show pony” WORKS DAMN HARD at looking pretty and getting people talking. And if looking pretty gets people talking about taxing the rich, great. Me, I’ll take an AOC *and* an Underwood, thanks.

  270. 270.

    Reboot

    @schrodingers_cat: Thanks. These POs all seem to be in NY so possibly relevant to her constituency.

    First in your link, George H. Bacel seems to have been a NYC WW2 vet and also a postal worker (katko.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/rep-john-katko-announces-legislation-name-fayetteville-p…)

    Rep. Katko sponsored it. Might seem a bit assholeish not to co-sponsor?

    From your link, looks like AOC has been party to a lot of PO renaming, as a co-sponsor, which is not quite the same as ‘AOC has sponsored legislation to rename more post offices than Underwood so there is that.’ Now you’ve made me curious about Underwood’s sponsorship of PO renaming….

  271. 271.

    Ken

    @Mike in NC: Larry was endorsed by pundit Victor Davis Hansen, AKA the “Fascist from Fresno”.

    @SiubhanDuinne: I can never ever remember the difference between Victor Davis Hansen and Mark Victor Hansen.

    Is that because “Fascist from Fresno” needs its own wikipedia disambiguation page, like “Butcher of the Balkans”?

    (Kidding, I think. I’ve never heard of either of the above, so apologies if MV Hansen is not a fascist, or not from Fresno.)

  273. 273.

    Dan B

    @danielx: I pied one person about a month ago and the comments on this post don’t seem very cranky.  Pie Person seemed to have a vendetta against AOC and it got very exhausting to read the comments

    It’s been much more enjoyable to read the comments since I applied the pie.  It was a revelation to discover, yet again, how one person can poison Hood duscussion.

  274. 274.

    Suzanne

    @Baud:

    It’s perfectly fine to not like or disagree with AOC, but I’m confused about how Underwood became her foil.   Is there some beef between them?

     

    SRSLY. We’re a team, not everyone has the same skillsets or appeals to the same people. That’s a strength.

    I was initially meh on AOC, for example, but Spawn the Elder loves her. He’s the typical kind of very left that most teenagers are. AOC will be important for keeping these kinds of people in the coalition. That’s her contribution. Thats important, to keep that cohort from feeling like they don’t have a place so the go to Jill Stein and other dumb shit.

  276. 276.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: LOL, according to my local right-wing rag I’m a Bolshevik. I keep meaning to tell the asshole editor if I ever encounter him FTF that *at most* I’m a Menshevik!

  277. 277.

    ProfDamatu

    @Immanentize: Very true – and my family (on my father’s side) owns one such. It’s only 200 acres, mostly alfalfa and cotton and some pecans. (And it’s in a part of the country that’s basically desert – southeastern NM.)

    This tax bill would be…interesting in its effects. Because I’m not at all sure what the capital gain on the land even would be; it wasn’t all purchased at the same time, but the most “recent” purchase would have been probably in the 1960s. Property transfer records in these rural NM counties are…not great, as we’ve found since Dad died in January and we’ve been figuring out his estate. The property hasn’t been appraised for sale value probably since before I was born (just for property tax purposes, and of course such assessments are quite low on agricultural land in NM), so…fun times!

    I wish there were some way for the law to identify truly small farms and do some kind of lower rate or such when it comes to tax proposals like these. I totally understand that it’s a huge privilege to even own any land at all! But, that $1 million exemption has the potential to force the sale of at least some true family farms. For instance, my family’s land is probably worth a few million, and most of that value will be a capital gain because it was purchased so long ago. BUT – the farm is small, and once expenses are factored in (equipment, water, employee salaries), we’re talking a middle-class level income that it produces (and I mean actual middle class, less than six figures – my father had a completely separate career as a veterinarian, which gave him breathing room in bad years). If the capital gain on the land was, say, $3 million, exemption $1 million – that’s $2 million taxable capital gain, which would be a tax of like $400-$500k (several times the annual profit). At that point, it’s no longer financially feasible to continue – if you sell enough land to pay the tax outright, the farm is no longer large enough to produce a viable income; if you pay in installments, the profit gets low enough that it’s probably no longer worth the headaches.

    All of this is unlikely to actually be an issue, as my dad wanted the farm sold upon his death regardless. But I figure there must be corner cases like this all over the place, if not nearly so many as there used to be.

    And that bit from the quoted tweet about the “death tax” is some bullshit – AFAIK that exemption is still going to be $11 million for individuals, which excludes the vast, vast majority of true small family farms and businesses.

  278. 278.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ken:

    MVH is the guy who basically invented the whole “Chicken Soup for the Soul” franchise. Certainly not my cup of tea broth but AFAIK not actually harmful. I know nothing about his politics.

  279. 279.

    Geminid

    @Baud: I also was a little surprised at some of the Congressional endorsements of Turner. I chalked them up to intra-Caucus politics. Within the Democratic Caucus as a whole, both the liberal Progressive Caucus and the more moderate New Democrat Caucus each have about 95 members (the Azul Canine kennel is down to 19 members). Turner’s oppoonent may well caucus with the New Democrat Coalition. Aside from caucus numbers, a Turner victory would have demonstrated the progressive side’s ascendancy among voting Democrats.

    Turner did her part by metamorphising into a kinder, gentler version of herself as soon as she realized that Marcia Fudge’s seat could be won. Turner did a good job of maintaining this front until her lead slipped away in the last couple weeks. Then she went down snarling.

    More Progressive Caucus members stayed out of the fight than endorsed Turner. And I would bet that some of  those who did endorse Turner were relieved when she lost.

  281. 281.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid:

    Turner did her part by metamorphising into a kinder, gentler version of herself as soon as she realized that Marcia Fudge’s seat could be won. She did a good job of maintaining this front until her lead slipped away in the last couple weeks. Then Turner went down snarling.

    Politics and personal character (her shape-shifting opportunism, her dishonesty about her lobbying career) aside, she’s a fucking nut. I have a low opinion of Bernie Sanders, but the fact that he and so many others couldn’t see, well, any of that, just lowers it, and does not speak well of any of her endorsers. Bakari Sellers, who I gather is generally considered to be more of a centrist, used the time-worn, “I’ve known Nina for X years”, the same horseshit so many Dems who should’ve known better (Barbara Boxer, I’m looking at you) used to justify their support of Lieberman in ’06

  282. 282.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @geg6:

    Well…way to sound just as much an asshole as you think AOC is.  Fuck off, jerk.  I haven’t seen a single person say this.

    Wow. I apologize for reading different tweets than you do.

    ETA:

    Fuck off, jerk.

    Seriously?

  283. 283.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    Wow – Heaven forbid AOC successfully gets media attention!

    SC, I love you, but your blindered crusade against AOC is just as unrelenting and unreasonable as anti-Dem leftier than thou types going after Nancy, Chuck, Kamala, or Joe.

    There is room in the Democratic Party for just about everyone. Big tent!

  284. 284.

    Nelle

    @schrodingers_cat: Lauren Underwood is the headliner for the Polk County Democratic Steak Fry in Des Moines here in Iowa this month.  This a big deal event.  In presidential years, before the Iowa caucus, all the candidates come.  I think there were around 12,000  in 2019.  She is being noticed.

  285. 285.

    geg6

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yes.  Seriously.  I’ve never used the pie filter before but between you and another who seems to like slagging on a brown person from a working class neighborhood as some sort of white elite, I’ve about had enough.

    And I don’t even like AOC all that much.  Jesus.

  286. 286.

    Ken

    @Nelle: Polk County Democratic Steak Fry in Des Moines here in Iowa this month. In presidential years, before the Iowa caucus, all the candidates come.  I think there were around 12,000 in 2019.

    I think I know what you mean, but it’s fun to read it as saying there were 12,000 Democratic presidential candidates in 2019.  Though at times it seemed there were that many.

  287. 287.

    Gravenstone

    @Immanentize: As someone whose family still owns what would be considered a “small family farm” in NW Ohio, whoever wrote that little snippet is full of shit. Even at the currently exorbitant rates tillable land is going for there, I could (and eventually will) sell our place and remain comfortably under a $1M exclusion.

  288. 288.

    Geminid

    @Nelle: And Elaine Luria (VA-2nd) will also get noticed soon. Luria was one of seven Democrats chosen to serve with Chairman Bennie Thompson (MS) on the Select Committee investigating the January 6 insurection.

  289. 289.

    Gravenstone

    @Baud: Should make identifying them for later investigation pretty simple. Provided most aren’t already under investigation for 1/6.

  291. 291.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @geg6: okay, I can’t figure out how you got from what I said to what you said, but… it is just a blog

    You’re really that angry because I mocked the idea a dress at the Met Gala a pivotal moment in politics? I’m surprised.

    Also, I’m not responsible for any other commenters.

  292. 292.

    lowtechcyclist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Black women on Twitter (some of whom I follow) have been pointing out the widely disparate treatment two young Congresswomen from the class of 2018 have gotten from the media. I am just following their lead.

    Maybe my jumping into this discussion isn’t the wisest thing I’ve done this week.  But with all due respect to you and them, it’s an apples-and-oranges comparison.

    First, I agree that Rep. Underwood deserves a lot more positive attention than she’s getting.  It’s really pretty easy to come up with a good plan for raising more tax revenue; where the rubber really meets the road is figuring out how to spend it in ways that really make a difference and aren’t just wasting money.

    And that’s what Underwood is doing with her Momnibus Act, and she’s doing the followup work of getting it through committee.  If it stays in the reconciliation package all the way to Biden’s desk, she will deserve a shitload of ink, people should be talking about her as a rising star, because at least inside the halls of Congress, that’s what she’ll be.

    But right now, quite honestly, flying under the radar is probably a Good Thing for the success of her legislation.  Sure, she doesn’t get attention. How often does Fox News go on the warpath against her?  (That’s why AOC is a star, after all: Fox News attacked her from the moment she won the Dem nomination in 2018, and she handled it well.)

    So Tucker and Hannity aren’t getting their audiences riled up about Momnibus, which increases the likelihood that it’ll get through while their fire is directed elsewhere.  But it also means that nobody’s rallying to her defense, either, because there’s no need.  The conversation isn’t about her, because nobody’s making it about her.

    The conversation’s about AOC because Fox News and the rest of the wingnut media have made the conversation about her, and she’s handled the attacks and her job both well enough that people on our side of things are inclined to defend her.

    You complain that while she advocates taxing the rich, she’s not writing legislation to make that happen.  Like I said up top, writing legislation to tax the rich is easy.  I could write a pretty good bill to accomplish that in fifteen minutes; I could write a very good bill in an afternoon.

    So trust me, the writing is all covered by other people in Congress; the hard part with taxing the rich is getting enough Congresspersons to support it. And a necessary preliminary is to activate public support – people are always in favor of higher taxes on the rich, but if they don’t even know it’s on the table, then it’s not.

    So what AOC did the other night is important. If people are talking about taxing the rich, it’s got a much better chance of happening than if they aren’t. If they aren’t, the perpetual pressure from rich people and their lobbyists wins, because they show up and our side doesn’t.

    But the fact that AOC gets a lot more attention than Underwood: that was just the way things happened. Fox News attacked one but not the other, and ever since, the conversation has been about the on they attacked and keep on attacking.  And also, once someone is in the news, they tend to stay there: look at Caitlyn Jenner. That’s 90% of how AOC is always in the news.

    But how one gets the media conversation to be about someone who might should be in the news, but isn’t – you’ve got whole professions devoted to solving that problem for their clients, with mixed success at best.  Sure, people should be talking more about Underwood, because she’s the real deal. But making it happen is the hard part, and I have no idea how one does that.  Sometimes, life just isn’t fair.

    But you know who it should be more fair for? Those moms and kids that Underwood’s legislation would go a long way to helping. And at least for now, I’d say the fact that Underwood hasn’t attracted any media attention really ups the odds of that legislation becoming a reality.  So let’s hope she gets the attention she deserves after this passes.

  293. 293.

    Gravenstone

    @Low Key Swagger: Maybe see if there are farmers in the area looking to lease more cropland? That’s what my stepfather has been doing for the last 20+ years, ever since he decided to stop doing the work himself. He actually goes in with his tenants on costs and then they split the gains (if any) at end of season.

  294. 294.

    gvg

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
      The authors son has dyslexia and he wanted to make his son feel better about himself. The whole series did well with dyslexic kids of that age because of it. My nephew was introduced to them because of it and loved them. Still had trouble with reading though.
    The explanation was the demigod kids (1 parent was a Greek god) had brains wired to read ancient Greek and had trouble with other languages like modern English and were often hyperactive and had ADD they were supposed to fight monsters. It seemed fine to me, but I didn’t have dyslexia.

  295. 295.

    gwangung

    Folks can disagree all they want to with AOC, but far too many of the takes with the respect to the Met Gala betray staggering ignorance of how non profits operate their special events. And non profits have to operate in the system we have now, not the one we want it to be.

  296. 296.

    Another Scott

    @lowtechcyclist: Thanks.

    I like to think that my RepDonBeyer is kinda like that.  He works extremely hard on economic issues, his district has more federal workers than any other and he fights for them, and he also has a decent Twitter presence.  But he’s mostly ignored by the press (partially because they can’t ask him – “Are you running for President??!!11” – since he wasn’t born in the US).  And that is mostly a good thing, given the way the howler monkey press usually acts.

    We’ve got lots and lots of skilled, smart, talented people on our side.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  298. 298.

    Ruckus

    @Starfish:

    It depends on how she traveled about Africa. Did she drive around in a Mercedes SUV or on a bus or on foot like others. I’ve traveled around this country and others in many different ways. I traveled around quite a bit of Europe by Navy ship – and got paid to do that. Not paid exactly a lot either. I traveled around most of this country by air, but I’ve crossed the continent by motorcycle – twice. And once in a 73 foot long truck. And during all of that I got paid the entire time. And Africa is not the US. So yes, it is possible to travel around a lot of Africa for a lot cheaper than here in the US.

  299. 299.

    Ruckus

    @Another Scott:

    We’ve got lots and lots of skilled, smart, talented people on our side.

    And while it would be nice if we agreed with all of them, or vice/versa, they agreed with us, the Democratic party is big and diverse and I think we should embrace the differences, that we can work together and see that while our differences are real, many of our goals are not all that much different. I enjoy that we have, even on this blog, people of widely varying backgrounds, races, and places of origin. I like diversity. In my time I’ve met people whose names any of us would know and yes some of them don’t deserve respect because they don’t actually respect others. I’ve known people in journalism who got high on the smell of their own effluent. I was, not long ago, thinking of leaving BJ because I don’t always fit in, and many people let me know that. The Democratic party is not about fitting in, it is about embracing our differences. The republican party has lost all concept of acceptance, as if it ever had any concept of that in the first place. That’s not quite correct, they have chased out all concept of different, which really what conservatism has been about for all time. That and praise the rich and fuck everyone else.

    Life isn’t simple, in a modern world it takes a lot of people that can do different tasks, understand differences. Take medicine for example. We are all human and yet we are actually different from a medical point of view. I have issues that medicines exist to fix or help. And yet I can tolerate none of those modern medicines. I’m the odd ball in this case. In the BJ vernacular I’m the AOC of my problem, the outlier, the one to be discarded. And some docs do exactly that, they don’t even try.

    We need to accept the differences, to understand them as we wish they might understand and accept us.

  302. 302.

    Felanius Kootea

    @germy: SC has a larger point though.  One example: not a peep about the Haiti earthquake on the front page of this site (I asked).  It’s fine, I just know to go elsewhere for that kind of discussion.

  303. 303.

    Felanius Kootea

    @Gin & Tonic: She has relatives in Ghana.  From a family base there it doesn’t take much to travel around the continent.  I’ve done it and I’m nowhere near rich.

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