Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

He really is that stupid.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

This really is a full service blog.

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The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

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I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

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Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / NANCY SMASH! / Open Thread: YES WE DID!

Open Thread: YES WE DID!

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And *now* I can go to bed, and get some much-needed sleep!

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146Comments

  6. 6.

    Mai Naem mobile

    Wtf is up with Jared Golden voting no? One fucking Dem. Whatevs. Nancy effing Pelosi will go down as one of the most effective speakers in American history. And she did in heels and with way smaller majorities.

  8. 8.

    p.a.

    Watching to see how much Sinemanchin ‘Liebermanizes’ the Senate version.  I’m not happy w either, but fucking Joe has enough $$$ to just rubberstamp the House version and retire fat and happy until he croaks; anything else is inexcusable.  Sinema is young enough that her oppo may be some kind of long game for Idunnowhat, or, of course, she may just be an idiot.

  9. 9.

    JimO

    I would like to know what the final status of the State and Local Tax deduction is. Is it capped at 10K still? Is it capped at 80K? Is the cap gone? I desperately would like the simple statement of where they finally left that item without histrionics and high dudgeon.

  12. 12.

    sdhays

    @zhena gogolia: I’m so tired of that word. For just about my entire life, it’s been used for nothing but bad faith arguments to do bad things. Back in the 90’s, I believed it was important, but now when I hear it/read anything with that word in it, I just start tuning out. It’s automatic. I just don’t care anymore.

  17. 17.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @zhena gogolia:

    Parker Molloy
    @ParkerMolloy
    Hey, look at that. BBB actually *reduces* the deficit.

    The fiscally conservative thing to do here is to pass it, obviously.

    U.S. CBO
    @USCBO
    · 15h
    CBO estimates that the funding for tax enforcement activities provided by H.R. 5376, the Build Back Better Act, would increase outlays by $80 billion and revenues by $207 billion, thus decreasing the deficit by $127 billion, through 2031. https://cbo.gov/publication/57

    I don’t know who has the more accurate math, but I’m pretty sure it’s not a Republican.

  18. 18.

    Chris

    @p.a.:

    My fear forever has been that they’re both (especially Sinema) angling for immortal meme-ness in the form of a John McCain moment, where they let the bill go all the way to signature just so they can kill it as dramatically as possible.

    (As Abigail Nussbaum over at LGM pointed out at the time, it’s nice that McCain’s action on the ACA worked out for the American people for once, but it really said a lot about what a bottomless hole of narcissism and spite the man was).

  19. 19.

    taumaturgo

    Maine 2nd Congressional District

    U.S. Census Bureau (2010 data)[1]

    Population: 660,042

    Gender: 49.4% Male, 50.6% Female

    Race[2]: 95.5% White, 0.6% Black, 0.6% Asian, 1% Native American

    Ethnicity: 1.1% Hispanic

    Unemployment: 10.1%

    Median household income
    $40,518

    High school graduation rate
    89%

    College graduation rate
    21.6%

  21. 21.

    Geminid

    @JimO: No need to be desperate. That particular news will be out soon, may already be reported. I think they were tinkering with this particular item well into yesterday.

    Senators Sanders and Menendez say they have a different approach to the SALT deduction, so we may not have the final answer until a Senate /Houseconference commitee resolves the matter.

    I’ll never use the SALT deduction, but I really don’t care about that resolution except in so far as it affects Democrats’ election chances next year.

  22. 22.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly:I don’t know who has the more accurate math, but I’m pretty sure it’s not a Republican

    Yup, safe bet there.

    I also don’t know why coverage of this supposed ‘increase’ in the deficit/debt/whatever doesn’t note that across 10 years, we’re basically talking about a rounding error in a $4.7 T annual U.S. budget.

    Wait…actually I do know why the coverage doesn’t note it: reporters are too lazy to look it up and wayyyy to lazy to try and explain it to their readers/audiences.

    Maybe a bar graph comparing BBB’s net impact on the deficit compared to the trumpov tax giveaways?  Is that too much to ask, snooze media?

  24. 24.

    Fake Irishman

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Parker’s retweet just deals with the tax enforcement portion. The CBO projects a small increase in the deficit over all while Treasury estimates project a small surplus (because of how they treat tax enforcement) both are pretty small-c conservative estimates of revenues.

  25. 25.

    germy

    And with this bill @SpeakerPelosi becomes the greatest Speaker of the modern era, passing historic legislation (ACA, ARP, Infrastructure, BBB) with tiny margins. Let's also remember she supplied votes for TARP to save the US economy and twice impeached a lawless president.— Jennifer 'pro-voting' Rubin (@JRubinBlogger) November 19, 2021

  26. 26.

    germy

    Here’s a great example of one life-changing policy in the bill:

    Just one provision in BBB: universal pre-school. For the first time in decades we are adding two years to universal education. Think about it. We are going from 12 to 14 years of free universal public education.— Ronald Klain (@WHCOS) November 19, 2021

  28. 28.

    J_Noodles

    @p.a.:At this point, it seems pretty obvious to me that Sinema is another Tulsi Gabbard style fraud. Like Gabbard, she conned a lot of people into thinking she was a progressive, grifting her way to the national stage. Now that she’s senator, she can also take bribes donations from big business lobbies (both foreign and domestic) pushing against higher taxes for the rich. When her political career inevitable crashes and burns, she’ll probably be shittposting, blogging and going Fox News to speak against Democrats like midlife crisis Psylocke has been doing of late. All to keep the con going and maintain relevance.

  31. 31.

    germy

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Give them time, they’ll come up with something.  She recently officiated at the wedding of a wealthy couple.  That was good for a few days of complaining.  And then it was forgotten.

  32. 32.

    Leto

    Worthless reporter just now: “How do you respond to Republicans today, that say, Democrats lied to the American republic like when they said, “This plan costs zero dollars” when the CBO says that it at least adds 160 billion dollars to the debt?”

    Nancy “Get that fucking shit out of here” Pelosi: “Let’s just not, uh, present what the Republicans say as any fact that you’re predicating a question on. I mean, understand what’s happening around here, ok?”

    Nancy SMASH!

  33. 33.

    Another Scott

    @JimO: I saw various comments about things being phased in and out over 5 years.  If nothing had changed, then things would have changed under the existing TFG bill in 5-10 years anyway.

    Here’s the text of HR 5376 – but I don’t know if it’s the actual final version that was voted on (there’s often a lag in the Congress.gov website). I tried to do a quick search, but nothing jumped out at me. Maybe you’ll have better luck.

    Whatever it is, I would assume that the Senate version may be slightly different and they’ll have to hammer out the differences in Conference. (Or maybe they’ll say “enough, let’s get it done and go home” – who knows.)

    HTH a little.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    @germy

    Doesn’t have to be updated very much.

    One of former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s most infamous quotes was something she said during a 20-minute speech to the National Association of Counties’ 2010 legislative conference. Congress was considering the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and the endless, breathless coverage of the contentious process, Pelosi explained, was preventing people from appreciating the significance of its contents.

    “We have to pass the bill,” she said, “so that you can find out what is in it — away from the fog of the controversy.”

    Conservatives — abetted by dozens of political journalists who should have known better — immediately seized on a truncated version of the quote. Pelosi was really expressing her confidence in the underlying merits of the bill, but it became instead a shorthand for the allegedly dodgy process through which Obamacare was passed.

    But Pelosi never said the bill was enacted in secret or under cover of night, because it wasn’t. She said it was enacted in a fog of controversy.… Source

  36. 36.

    zhena gogolia

    OT, but I hope everybody saw this lowlife yesterday.

    Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA): “I don’t know whether to call you professor or comrade.”Someone off-camera: “Oh my goodness.”Dr. Saule Omarova, Biden’s comptroller currency pick: “I’m not a communist. I do not subscribe to that ideology. I could not choose where I was born.” pic.twitter.com/CEiCWNwx2N— The Recount (@therecount) November 18, 2021

  37. 37.

    Leto

    @Fake Irishman:

    The CBO projects a small increase in the deficit over all while Treasury estimates project a small surplus

    The issue here is how it’s being reported. The CBO deficit increase is what the media is already running with while neglecting to include the projected Treasury increase. It’s all “THIS WILL ADD TO THE DEFICIT! BIDEN LIED!” Pelosi, and some of her other colleagues, are currently dealing with this in real time at the press conference here. They’re already pushing back on that bullshit, but the media is already running with their predetermined narrative and it’s what we’ll hear for the next X number of days/months ahead.

  39. 39.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @NotMax:

    Conservatives — abetted by dozens of political journalists who should have known better — immediately seized on a truncated version of the quote

    rotating tag? too long? evergreen comment?

  40. 40.

    Cathie from Canada

    As great as this achievement is, I now dread a rerun of the endless Manchin & Sinema Show that will dominate December, with a brief intermissions for another debt ceiling debate.

    Schumer needs to Bring Back Earmarks!  Its the only way to get this moving.

  44. 44.

    Geminid

    @taumaturgo: Two other Maine  2nd District numbers, from the 2020 Presidential tally:  trump 196,692  Biden 168,696.

    Golden won reelection by ~22,500 votes.

    Fun fact: In land area, Maine’s Second District is the largest district east of the Mississippi River.

  46. 46.

    Leto

    @zhena gogolia: Chris Hayes covered this last night, including a good bit of that shitbag’s questioning. I heard that person off camera say, “Oh my goodness” and that’s the most gentle response I can think of to that. Half her family was fucking murdered by Stalinists, she didn’t have a choice in growing up in the Soviet Union, and bayou John wants her to write to her old school to get some type of note stating she’s no longer in the Youth Communist Party (or whatever the fuck it was called)? Sen Warren’s response to this was included in the coverage, and she was right to call it McCarthy tactics. Disgusting doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    Here’s the clip from the Hayes show. Doesn’t include all of shitbag’s questioning but you can get the jist of it.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Fake Irishman: Thanx, I was pretty sure she wasn’t doing the whole bill. Regardless, BBB is still far more fiscally responsible than there rich man’s handjob’s giveaway 4 years ago.

  51. 51.

    sixthdoctor

    The insulin cap ALONE should be on every Democrat’s messaging for 2022. “So, why do want parents to pay thousands of dollars more a year for their kid’s insulin? Are you a sadistic scumbag, or just dead inside? Or both? Yeah, probably both.”

  52. 52.

    Kay

    Pre k access is complicated and doesn’t fall along red/blue lines the way one might expect. I think the big change will be upper middle and middle class will benefit from the publicly funded programs, which will benefit the publicly funded programs broadly because you want to bring them in. Public programs are more robust, resilient and have more political support if they aren’t limited to “the poor”.

    State-funded pre-K programs currently serve just 22 percent of four year olds and 3 percent of three year olds in the U.S.
    Nationally, about 70 percent of children in state-funded pre-K are served in a school setting. For- and non-profit childcare centers, Head Start centers, and faith-based providers serve the other 30 percent.
    Florida, Georgia, and Oklahoma are the only states that currently make pre-K available to all four year olds.
    The District of Columbia, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana, New York, and West Virginia have multi-year plans to implement pre-K for all four year olds. (The District of Columbia and Illinois have plans that include three year olds as well.)
    Twelve states with state-funded pre-K do not offer their programs to three year olds.
    Twelve states have no state-funded pre-K program at all.

  54. 54.

    Geminid

    @germy: Magdi Semrau, who tweets as @Magi_Jay, has a practical and academic background in childhood education. She describes Universal Pre-K as a “game changer”, especially for educationally disadvantaged children. This is a wise investment in our nation’s human capital that will pay off handsomely.

  56. 56.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Oh FFS…

    “Progressivism once looked to the future; today, it’s stuck in the past. – The Nation”

    Dear The Nation, delete your account.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    @zhena gogolia:

    Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA): “I don’t know whether to call you professor or comrade.”

    I would have said, “Well, Senator Kennedy. Are you now or have you ever been a communist? Because otherwise I have no idea why you would address me as ‘comrade.’ ”

    Disgusting.

  61. 61.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Geminid: I used the SALT deduction until the standard deduction was increased beyond my ability to itemize, i.e. my mortgage, which is usually the expense that gets you to itemization, was no longer large enough. So, while this deduction does benefit the very wealthy, it helped my tax burden for years with a more modest home. Not on the coast either.

  68. 68.

    Edmund Dantes

    @schrodingers_cat: or it’s the reality. We watched the HOuse GOP celebrate the end of ACA. How did that work out for them? Lots of people here want to run to declare victory long before it’s achieved. Also as are those that declare defeat after it is won.

    I am neither. Cause the truth is the bill isn’t passed yet or did we change US civics at some point that I missed?

  71. 71.

    Edmund Dantes

    Apparently Golden’s justification is a better tax formula (lower tax). Which knowing the ME 2nd is a good fig leaf for how a lot of the ME 2nd thinks.

  72. 72.

    rikyrah

    @WaterGirl:

    Maybe he’s a Blue State voter that got screwed by the Republicans and wants his deductions back.

    Who knows.

    They phucked a lot of people out of a lot of $$$ with that bullshyt.

  73. 73.

    Another Scott

    @sixthdoctor:

    +1

    The savings that matters the most: if you are spending $800, $900, or $1000 a month on your insulin now, that will be capped at $35 a month. https://t.co/2R0VgNYlv0

    — Ronald Klain (@WHCOS) November 18, 2021

    This is real money for real people. It matters a lot.

    Here’s hoping that the caps are solid and that drug companies can’t get around them by making the package purple or something… :-/

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  74. 74.

    Fleeting Expletive

    If he’s not called “Baby Carrots Kevin” from here on out, we are really missing Leader McCarthy’s best nickname.

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @laura: always torn between Jubilation T Cornpone, Forghorn Leghorn, and as a kid who watched way too many reruns on local TV back in the day: Mr Haney.

  76. 76.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Edmund Dantes: Wallowing in negativity and predicting doom before the event has even occurred is not reality, it is defeatism.

    BTW PM Modi has promised to repeal the 3 farm laws that were passed in the parliament last year. The agitating farmers could have just given up and listened to Indian versions of Edmund Dantes but they didn’t. And they won.

    BJP has a majority in the Indian version of the House of Commons BTW without the aid of any other party in the ruling coalition. So the math was clearly against them.

  77. 77.

    Geminid

    @Sure Lurkalot: I said I was concerned about the effect of the SALT deduction on Democrats’ election chances next year, but I actually favor a higher cap on the deduction. When the Republicans imposed the $10,000 cap in 2017, they obviously were trying to punish citizens of high tax states like New York, New Jersey, Illinois, and California. They want to undermine support for needed local and state programs by ending what is in effect a federal tax subsidy. Most citizens affected do not have the option of moving to lower tax states, but they do have the option of voting tax cutting Republican politicians into local and state office. That is what Congressional Republicans intended.

  79. 79.

    rikyrah

    @Geminid:

    She describes Universal Pre-K as a “game changer”, especially for educationally disadvantaged children. This is a wise investment in our nation’s human capital that will pay off handsomely.

     

    clap clap clap clap clap

  83. 83.

    bluegirlfromwyo

    @sdhays: Same. I’m 50 so I’ve been hearing basically all my life that deficits will kill our economy, make the dollar worthless, etc. while the deficit kept going up. Until I get a number from the deficit hawks du jour, they’re the boy who cried wolf.

  84. 84.

    Old School

    BBC Breaking News
    @BBCBreaking·
    39m

    US Vice-President Kamala Harris to become first woman to be given presidential powers while Joe Biden is under anaesthesia for routine colonoscopy

  85. 85.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Edmund Dantes: Ten steps forward, nine steps back. That’s a political reality that hasn’t changed as long as I can remember. Great societal changes are always incremental, so I’ll celebrate this victory because none of this would have happened under a republican administration. I think marginalized people in this country understand how this shit goes down.

  86. 86.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Edmund Dantes: The bill has not passed the Senate.  We know that.  This was still an important step in the process.  There is nothing the fuck wrong with recognizing that fact and celebrating it.

  88. 88.

    Barbara

    @Kay: ​

    Pre k access is complicated and doesn’t fall along red/blue lines the way one might expect. I think the big change will be upper middle and middle class will benefit from the publicly funded programs, which will benefit the publicly funded programs broadly because you want to bring them in.

    I second this sentiment. When my kids were in their last one/two years of daycare I looked at public alternatives, which were mostly limited to kids who were considered to be at risk of lower achievement because of language or other barriers. There was a lottery for any remaining slots. This didn’t bother me unduly because I had the wherewithal to deal with the situation, and certainly, reducing the number of kids with special burdens in a classroom benefits both the other kids and teachers — but the cost of two additional years of full-time care is a big deal for most people, however that care is provided, including if it means two more years of a parent staying out of the workforce.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Magdi Semrau @magi_jay 1h

    Just gonna note that the people who many maligned as “neoliberal shills” just crafted and passed one of the most economically & socially progressive pieces of legislation in U.S. history through the House. This includes Pelosi & Biden, as well as Biden’s advisor, Neera Tanden.

  91. 91.

    Edmund Dantes

    @schrodingers_cat: do me a favor. Show me where I predicted doom? All I am doing is not celebrating a victory that hasn’t happened yet.

    Especially when we have a McCain cosplayer in the Senate. I haven’t said anything about whether it will or won’t pass.

    I simply said to the two biggest assholes in the senate don’t fuck it up.

     

    and it makes no sense to celebrate a victory when if Sinema wakes up and decides she really want to make the McCain cosplay real can crash the bike before we’ve crossed the line and actually won a victory.

    I’ve never doubted Pelosi’s ability to get this done, but unfortunately she doesn’t matter now. I wish she did.

  92. 92.

    Another Scott

    @Edmund Dantes: Pelosi (at least partially) controls who is going to be on a Conference Committee if the Senate passes a different bill.  She matters up until the instant Biden signs it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Edmund Dantes: You didn’t say it in so many words but you did imply it and again admonished those celebrating this key step in the passage of the bill, passing the House.

    It makes no sense to celebrate a victory when if Sinema wakes up and decides she really want to make the McCain cosplay real can crash the bike before we’ve crossed the line and actually won a victory.

    In your own words its wrong to celebrate a positive step in anticipation of an impending loss. I call it defeatism you call it reality.

  97. 97.

    NotMax

    @Another Scott

    I wouldn’t expect a conference committee. Whatever changes pass in the Senate under reconciliation will instead be re-introduced and passed as is in the House.

  103. 103.

    Woodrow/asim

    @Edmund Dantes: and it makes no sense to celebrate a victory

    The reason the GOP celebrated the House passing the ACA was that they moved the ball forward, and in a public manner that got them notice and column inches. It signaled to their followers that they were serious about repeal, and put that seriousness up as front-page/evening news. In other words, it was exactly the kind of messaging stuff so many people here, and elsewhere, say we Democrats fail to do.

    Yes, the GOP assumed, wrongly, they had the votes. Yet it’s a matter of public record that it was a late-minute campaign by Democratic leadership that pushed McCain to vote “no”. Without that, it’s likely the ACA repeal would have gone thru, and it was surely what the GOP side had in mind, with the celebration on the House end.

    We Democrats, living in the real world, have no such blasé assumptions. Nor will the reporting fail to mention the challenges we’ve seen, on the Senate side over the last few months. These celebrations are not occurring in a vacuum, bereft of context.

    We have a win. Announcing we have a win, can put wind in the sails on the Senate side. I’m pretty damn sure Pelosi knows this far better than you or I, and much like how she locked down the Impeachment reactions to present a somber affect, she has gamed out this public presentation as advantageous to the bill’s chances of passing.

  104. 104.

    Betty Cracker

    Since no one asked, here’s my personal opinion: this is a blog where many crabby and/or opinionated Dems discuss politics, among other things. It’s not a primal doom scream therapy group. And it’s not a positive affirmations group either. So, if someone wants to speculate on how Manchin and Sinema may fuck up the House bill in the Senate, that’s okay. If someone wants to lead cheers for the House Dem caucus, that’s okay too. 

    Given our broad mission, I also think it’s okay (if tedious) if the former group wants to complain about the latter — or vice versa — in every goddamn thread. Just thought this was worth sharing because sometimes folks react to topical comments in an open thread as if a squadron of wanton strumpets invaded a Junior Opus Dei purity pledge ceremony and started stripping. 

  105. 105.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​”@Edmund Dantes: The bill has not passed the Senate. We know that. This was still an important step in the process. There is nothing the fuck wrong with recognizing that fact and celebrating it.”
     

    If we need an historical precedent, both VE Day and VJ Day were celebrated. :)​

  107. 107.

    NotMax

    @Betty Cracker

    as if a squadron of wanton strumpets invaded a Junior Opus Dei purity pledge ceremony and started stripping

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    // :)

  109. 109.

    Geminid

    @Betty: I did not say the vote was justified. And I’m sure Golden will find disingenuous ways to justify his vote, rather than just saying “trump won my district by 28,000 votes and I want to win again in 2022.”

  111. 111.

    RaflW

    Quevin got roundly mocked for hours and hours, looks like a buffoon and a kook, and pushed the vote into the morning getting-ready-for-work hours.

    He’s quite the tactician!

  112. 112.

    Woodrow/asim

    @Betty Cracker: sometimes folks react to topical comments in an open thread as if a squadron of wanton strumpets invaded a Junior Opus Dei purity pledge ceremony and started stripping.

    As someone who knows a few strippers, that would be welcome :)

    As someone who does that kind of calling-out? Yeah, I’m guilty as changed. When I do speak out, I try to make it in service of actually breaking discussions into other directions I don’t oft-see covered, here.

    My response to E.D.’s post is an example. I get their motive, I really do. It’s just that I think it lacks historical context, on top of the impact on readers. I try to critique from that POV so t’s not just “I disagree with the emotional content,” but also point out that the logic of their approach doesn’t hold up to what we’ve seen in the past, when this was done.

    And — as happened last night — I strive to be open to being wrong, and accepting that with grace. I can get really emotional about topics, myself, and indeed I’ll be honest in saying the root of why I’m here, is an emotional attachment to the code idea of Progressivism, and this space tends to (mostly…) match that with a pragmatic nature to politics, that I enjoy reading.

    Some days I don’t make it that far, and it’s fair to call me, or others, other when we’re obstinate in the face of raw facts, too. :)

  113. 113.

    PJ

    @Betty Cracker:

    Just thought this was worth sharing because sometimes folks react to topical comments in an open thread as if a squadron of wanton strumpets invaded a Junior Opus Dei purity pledge ceremony and started stripping.

    Forwarding this one to the scriptwriters.

  114. 114.

    Cameron

    I’ll confess I was one of the doom-sayers, but I think things are looking pretty good.  Sure, Manchin may demand a few more ounces of flesh, and I’m not thrilled that Sinema is so Yertle-curious, but whatever we wind up with will shape a better country than we had before.

  115. 115.

    Old School

    @PJ:

    Forwarding this one to the scriptwriters.

    While the last Borat movie didn’t do exactly that, it was in the same spirit.

  116. 116.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, what is the physics behind explosions from deep-frying turkeys?? Glad you asked. Phys.org:

    […]

    Frozen turkeys—or any kind of frozen meats, for that matter—contain a lot of ice. Raw meat can be anywhere from 56% to 73% water. If you have ever thawed a frozen piece of meat, you have probably seen all the liquid that comes out.

    For deep-frying, cooking oil is heated to around 350 degrees Fahrenheit (175 C). This is much hotter than the boiling point of water, which is 212 F (100 C). So when the ice in a frozen turkey comes in contact with the hot oil, the surface ice quickly turns to steam.

    This quick transition is not a problem when it happens at the very surface of the oil. The steam escapes harmlessly into the air.

    However, when you submerge a turkey into the oil, the ice inside the turkey absorbs the heat and melts, forming liquid water. Here is where the density comes into play.

    This liquid water is more dense than the oil, so it falls the bottom of the pot. The water molecules continue to absorb heat and energy and eventually they change phases and become steam. The water molecules then rapidly spread far apart from one another and the volume expands by 1,700 times. This expansion causes the density of the water to drop to a fraction of a percent of the density of the oil, so the gas wants to quickly rise to the surface.

    Combine the fast change in density together with the expansion of volume and you get an explosion. The steam expands and rises, blowing the boiling oil out the pot. If that weren’t dangerous enough, as the displaced oil comes into contact with a burner or flame, it can catch fire. Once some droplets of oil catch on fire, the flames will quickly ignite nearby oil molecules, resulting in a fast-moving and often catastrophic fire.

    Every year, thousands of accidents like this happen. So, should you decide to deep-fry a turkey for this year’s Thanksgiving, be sure to thoroughly thaw it and pat it dry. And next time you add a bit of liquid to an oil-filled pan and end up with oil all over the stove, you’ll know the science of why.

    Now you know!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  117. 117.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Cameron: I agree with your current assessment.  I’ve just been arguing it for a while.   Now, counting chickens and all that….  We aren’t there yet, but I like our chances.

  118. 118.

    Tony Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Just thought this was worth sharing because sometimes folks react to topical comments in an open thread as if a squadron of wanton strumpets invaded a Junior Opus Dei purity pledge ceremony and started stripping

    With sexy results.

    Also I agree with your point. Room for all kinds of differing opinions on the issues of the day around here. Some people thinks it’s relevant and worth keeping in mind that the onus for passing the bill now falls upon those two corkscrew-witted egonovas of celebrity centrism in the Senate, some people… don’t.

    Big Tent, comes with clowns.

  119. 119.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    There is nothing the fuck wrong with recognizing that fact and celebrating it.

    You’d better put all your eggs in one basket,
    you’d better count your chickens before they hatch…

    Just don’t go telling a lot of people what we’ve done for them, before we’ve actually done it, okay?

    The Dems have a big enough problem already with promising to do X, Y, and Z if they win, and then not doing it for reasons (sometimes the filibuster, sometimes not) that aren’t at all clear to your average low-info voter.  Telling them we have done X, Y, and Z, and then having it turn out that we aren’t able to do them after all, would be even worse IMHO.

  120. 120.

    Brantl

    @Chris:

    (As Abigail Nussbaum over at LGM pointed out at the time, it’s nice that McCain’s action on the ACA worked out for the American people for once, but it really said a lot about what a bottomless hole of narcissism and spite the man was). 

    Nice to see McCain recognized for the man he really was.

  121. 121.

    RaflW

    You’ll almost never find me quoting Dick Cheney. But he wryly noted that Ronald Reagan proved that in politics, “deficits don’t matter”. And with BBB whatever tiny impact +/- really won’t matter.

    As far as that Mainer’s vote goes, it’s like Adam said yesterday: They’re gonna attack him anyway for being a ‘Nancy Pelosi liberal’ but he’s made it harder to argue to his constituents that he is delivering life-changing policies like covered hearing aides, affordable insulin or child care while parents work.

    But Maine is a weird place, politically, it seems. One of the few states on my to-do list, though it won’t be to learn about why they keep Mme. Collins around. Gimme lobster and quaint craggy fishing villages, and then I’m out.

  122. 122.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @lowtechcyclist: Okay, we have made some progress toward passing the bill (this process may or may not be halted in the Senate).  So any of you who may be concerned that the Democrats are not getting anything should continue to be concerned because nothing matters but the final passage of the bill and even then it will be smaller than we wanted so we should mutter about it and then be surprised when we don’t get any bump in the polls as the GOP continues to demonize anything we do.

    Is that better?

  124. 124.

    Ohio Mom

    Sigh. I was doing a really good job of ignoring this whole thing until just now when I learned BBB passed in the House.

    Guess I’m back on the emotional roller coaster — for our country yes, for the sake of Biden’s presidency but also because some of the programs would help my family quite a bit.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    @lowtechcyclist:

    The Dems have a big enough problem already with promising to do X, Y, and Z if they win, and then not doing it for reasons (sometimes the filibuster, sometimes not) that aren’t at all clear to your average low-info voter.

    I disagree with this on many levels.

    First of all, Democrat voters vary so widely that many of them don’t agree with all the promises. And in 2020, there was a lot of voting to get rid of Trump without regard to Democratic Party policies.

    Second, activist Democrats often care more about this stuff than supposed low-information voters, who don’t follow the ins and outs of detailed policy.

    But Biden is smart enough to focus on some key things. Activists and pundits like to get into the weeds about infrastructure and other stuff. But Biden says that he is going to improve the economy and create good, well paying union jobs. Even if voters only hear jobs, that is enough for them.

    There is much work that the Democrats need to do that may not have even been mentioned in policy and platform proposals.

    A lot of what the average citizen wants comes down to “work together, don’t fuck things up and make my life easier.”  Details don’t matter.

  127. 127.

    zhena gogolia

    Every day since he took office, Joe Biden and his team have worked with Democrats on the Hill and across the country to help America recover from the pandemic and prepare for a new era of prosperity, opportunity and leadership in the decades ahead.— David Rothkopf (@djrothkopf) November 19, 2021

  128. 128.

    Yutsano

    @Ohio Mom: I’m looking at it this way: the Democrats have already passed an amazing piece of legislation that will help our adults, for the most part. Now they’re looking to take care of the children and close some gaps. I really do think we’ll get something out of the Senate. Whether it’s worth a damn or a dog’s breakfast has yet to be determined. But it’s going to happen. I’m personally excited.

  129. 129.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: I don’t think low information voters hear about any of the stuff we debate about here. Most will only become aware of BBB bill provisions months from now when they themselves are affected.

    I did a mini-survey last week about a hot topic here. I was doing a chimney repair job for my friend Stephanie, and I asked her what she thought of “AOC.” “Who’s that?” she asked. “Her full name is Alexanderia Ocasio-Cortez,” I said, “and she’s famous.” Stephanie said, “Oh, I have heard of her. What’s she famous for?”

    Stephanie votes every election, and votes Democratic. No one who knows her would put her down as just a low information voter. She is a very competent middle manager with good people skills and a boatload of common sense. She just has other interests besides politics.

  130. 130.

    Brantl

    @Chris:

    (As Abigail Nussbaum over at LGM pointed out at the time, it’s nice that McCain’s action on the ACA worked out for the American people for once, but it really said a lot about what a bottomless hole of narcissism and spite the man was).

     

    Nice to see McCain recognized for the man he really was.

    @schrodingers_cat:  You don’t seem to know the difference between him implying it and you inferring it. You inferred it, apparently erroniously.

  131. 131.

    PPCLI

    @Geminid: This, this, this.

    The 2017 tax cut bill was an exercise in vindictiveness: the Republicans did everything they could to punish Democratic states, and target Democratic constituencies. The SALT cap was just one example. Targeting graduate stipends and counting tuition waivers as income was another. (Fortunately that one didn’t make it.)

  132. 132.

    sixthdoctor

    @Cameron: I tend towards doomsaying as well. But since the Republican party platform is now explicitly higher insulin prices, forced birth, and transmitting COVID for starters, it seems like Dems can run on that message.

    If half of this country are assholes enough to vote for Republicans anyway, then all we can do is hunker and prepare for the help which will be needed via charity.

  133. 133.

    Betty Cracker

    @Woodrow/asim: Nothing wrong with offering a counterpoint to what you perceive as unwarranted pessimism. That’s part of the give-and-take that makes this place amusing and instructive. My point is there’s nothing inappropriate about making negative comments, especially when they are on topic and in an open thread. Eeyores AND Tiggers are welcome, IMO.

  134. 134.

    Brachiator

    @Woodrow/asim:

    The reason the GOP celebrated the House passing the ACA was that they moved the ball forward, and in a public manner that got them notice and column inches. It signaled to their followers that they were serious about repeal, and put that seriousness up as front-page/evening news. In other words, it was exactly the kind of messaging stuff so many people here, and elsewhere, say we Democrats fail to do.

    I don’t know. This explanation seems a bit convoluted.

    Also, the supposed GOP messaging came down to a bunch of lies.

    Trump and various GOP lackeys promised repeal and replace. They promised that they would protect pre-existing conditions. They promised that their bill would be better.

    The GOP were disciplined. But this was all a bunch of lies.

    The GOP got media attention. But this was all a bunch of lies.

    The GOP would have been happy to repeal the ACA and leave it at that. They would have come up with a new set of lies about how they had saved America.

    But it would have all been a bunch of lies.

    Who needs that kind of messaging? It’s easy, but empty.

  136. 136.

    Ruckus

    @schrodingers_cat:

    They have embraced bigotry as their main issue!

    When haven’t they done that?

    They hide it under the guise of embracing money as their main issue but it’s always been there. The money is the car they drive to the convention with the pointy white hats.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    @Barbara:

    We have prek for 4 year olds as part of the public system where I live and it is wildly popular. Wasn’t controversial at all either- they added it when we built a new school. The assumptions are changing- the assumption now is they start at 4. But it’s important there be middle and even upper middle class buy-in, or it’s a poor people program and always and forever vulnerable and perceived as lower quality or less desirable.

    I paid for high quality private prek at a time I could barely afford it and I would have been thrilled with a public school program. It was inconvenient too- it was geared to families with one parent at home so had out of sync drop off and pick up times.

  140. 140.

    Alce_e_ardillo

     Just thought this was worth sharing because sometimes folks react to topical comments in an open thread as if a squadron of wanton strumpets invaded a Junior Opus Dei purity pledge ceremony and started stripping.

    Now there’s something I could watch!

  143. 143.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    I know I shouldn’t have but I laughed out loud at that.

    A very nice stop complaining rant.

    I think that we get comfortable when we find a place we like and we – humans – begin to take possession of the place and time. It isn’t right or necessarily fair but it does seem to be human nature. In public places we have to be careful about that because that comfort isn’t necessarily real nor earned.

  144. 144.

    topclimber

    @Omnes Omnibus: Also, for all the nitpickers, I suggest you call something a bill until both houses endorse it and the President signs it. Then it becomes a law, not a bill.

    IOW, keep talking about what’s in the bill, everyone else.

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