I checked the President’s calendar as I do every morning, and this was not on there.
President Biden’s address paraphrased:
What is likely to occur in Ukraine in the upcoming days:
Unity, determination and resolve. There are reports of a major uptick in violations of the cease fire. Shelling of Ukraine kindergartners. More and more disinformation being pushed out, claiming that Ukraine is planning to launch a big attack.
That defies basis logic. Phony allegations of genocide. Fabricated claims about Ukraine attacks on Russia, with no evidence.
All consistent with the playbook that Russia has used before. To set up a false justification to act against Ukraine. Just as we have been warning about for weeks.
Ukraine refuses to allow Russia to bait them into war. Ukraine is surrounded by Russia forces on all sides.
We believe they will target Kyiv. Calling out Russia’s plans, not because we want conflict, but to try to keep war from happening.
Russia can still choose diplomacy.
If Russia takes military action, they will have slammed the door shut on diplomacy; they will have chosen war and they will pay a steep price for doing so.
Russia has a choice between war and all the suffering it will bring.
Answer to a question: “As of this moment that the decision [for Russia to invade] has been made. We have reason to believe that.”
The President begins speaking at the 1 hour and 21-minute mark.
Take a minute to watch this. It's tempting to view Putin as some world-dominating mastermind. But that's not what's happening here. At all. pic.twitter.com/3fvrkPCI4m
— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) February 17, 2022
zhena gogolia
This is horrible
Another Scott
There were at least 4 big things that Biden said clearly today:
* (roughly) “As of this moment, we believe he has decided to invade.” Biden says diplomacy is still possible as long as he doesn’t invade.
* Kyiv is a target.
* The timeline is very short. “Week” (no ‘s’) or “Days”. This has been the rumored timeline for months (Xi supposedly asked VVP not to invade during the Olympics).
* Asked how he was so certain of VVP’s plans he said “we have significant intelligence capability”.
It was indeed an important speech. We’ll have to see if VVP recognizes he has a weak hand – the US can read his cards – and he will suffer “devastating” consequences if he doesn’t back down.
Cheers,
Scott.
brendancalling
I’m really upset about this. My ex’s family is there.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Yes it is.
Wvng
Not sure Putin cares about the consequences. He either gets the West to cave to his demands or he’ll invade, because he can. I wonder if Trump is secretly cheering him.on, as Fox does openly.
Brachiator
Send Trump to Ukraine. Send his family with him. Let him do something presidential, and talk to his buddy Putin.
Send Tucker Carlson and Hannity along as well.
VOR
I claim no special expertise. But Putin will probably drive for Kyiv, decapitate the government, and put his own sympathizers in place. Somehow a sheen of democracy will be force-fitted onto this coup. Russia will quickly withdraw back across the border. Then the new Quisling Ukraine government will make nice with Russia and start negotiations for permanent adjustments to borders. There will likely be crackdowns on anyone not sufficiently enamored of the new regime.
The real question will be the European response. Will Germany really walk away from Russian natural gas? Will Sweden and Finland become friendly with NATO? How will Erdogan handle this in a bordering country?
And how will the invasion be portrayed on Fox “News”?
sab
@Baud: This makes no sense for anyone or for either side.
Gin & Tonic
I believe it’s more likely in the east than in Kyiv. Especially now that civilians are being exported to Russia (being bribed to leave.) The cynic would say to look for one of those buses to be attacked as a false flag casus belli.
Gin & Tonic
@Brachiator: Ukraine doesn’t want those assholes.
Geminid
@Brachiator: And drop James Comey off at a monastery that has a vow of silence!
debbie
Putin’s no mastermind. He’s a monster and a criminal thug. I wish there was some way to remove him. Make him a pariah.
Jeffro
I think that unfortunately, we already have a good sense of that portrayal.
We might also have a sense of how Fox will be dealt with going forward if it chooses to continue undermining America. Wasn’t there some “news” organization that just got in trouble for passing along Russian propaganda earlier this week?
Baud
@Jeffro:
It didn’t get into trouble. It was just called out.
Dan B
@VOR: Russia has detailed lists of opposition leaders to torture and assassinate.
Chris Murphy’s video is great but it seems Putin is like a cornered animal.
Spanky
@debbie: I’ve read that he avoids things like computer-controlled elevators, and well he should.
Biden’s game is to make it clear to Vlad that he (Vlad) has no idea how much the US really knows and is funneling to Ukraine. I think the longer the wait goes on the more doubt is sown in the Russian hierarchy.
VOR
@Baud: Consequences for one’s actions? What a quaint idea!
Mike in NC
Putin told Trump in Helsinki what his plans were. Trump shrugged.
mrmoshpotato
Diplomacy is still on the table. Did she miss his entire address? ?
I hope Putin backs down.
Another Scott
@VOR: I have no special expertise either.
But I think a problem with a “dash to Kyiv” tactic (and I agree that it likely what they’re thinking) is something Powell said during the Gulf War – “First we’re going to cut it off, then we’re going to kill it.” It’s pretty much standard military doctrine, as I understand it. So, VVP either has to make it a bigger operation (to keep from being cut off), or he risks failure. And a bigger operation invites many more casualties and more resistance.
Some sort of commando raid to try to decapitate the government seems unlikely to succeed because, as I understand it, much of the government has moved west temporarily. (Corrections welcome). Plus, it’s extremely unlikely that such a coup would be recognized and sanctions would be severe.
VVP’s best move is to accept negotiations and back down, but he seems unlikely to take it.
But we’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
I don’t think that the people who run Fox News know how to back away from their sedition and propaganda. The same may be true of the GOP in Congress.
debbie
@Spanky:
That, and NATO unity.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Scott: The government is in Kyiv, where it belongs.
hueyplong
@Mike in NC: Of course Trump shrugged. Anything else would have been insubordination, which the evidence suggests might irritate Putin.
Gin & Tonic
@Dan B: “Opposition leaders”?? The Ukrainian government is united in opposition to Russia.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: Who is “she”?
Baud
@Spanky:
He probably avoids windows in high buildings too, lest the irony become too tempting for someone.
Dan B
@Gin & Tonic: Yep. I believe all Ukrainian leaders are on the list. Are there any who favor Russia in the government?
Sorry about imprecise word choice.
debbie
Mike in Pasadena
The US does not have much of a moral leg to stand on except we weren’t trying to make Iraq part of our country.
Baud
@Mike in Pasadena:
Zero people care about our legs.
sab
@Spanky: Hoping against hope. Iulia Joffe had said for years that Putin is not a strategist. He is just reactive, to home pressures and foreign pressures.
Hoping very much that he is backing down from foreign pressures.
/// But thank you so much for war-mongering American media for upping his foreign pressures.
Am I wrong to want Richard Engle to die on a battlefield somewhere? Or near a battlefield?
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
His actions make no sense. If he really wanted Ukraine, he should have moved on it while Trump was still in office.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Trump was supposed to destroy NATO. After than, Ukraine and a lot of other countries would have fallen within Russia’s orbit.
Gin & Tonic
@Mike in Pasadena: The question is not any moral legs ( or lack of) on the part of the US, but the position of Ukraine. It does not want to be at war with its neighbor, but it really doesn’t want to be annexed by its neighbor. Does a sovereign nation in 21st century Europe get the right to self -determination, or not? If yes, it unfortunately needs help.
Mike in Pasadena
We’re gonna fuck up your shit cuz we can. Oh yeah, Sadamn is a bad guy and we don’t want a mushroom cloud. Only we get to drop nukes on people, doncha know. Signed, W.
zhena gogolia
@Mike in Pasadena: Oh go fuck yourself.
Sanjeevs
Putin has been making war on the West since at least 2014 via his troll farms, comprising Western politicians via bribes and kompromat, assassinations, cyberattacks etc
The one one good thing about this horrible situation is that is finally out in the open and undeniable.
And Biden has done a good job clarifying this.
sab
@Mike in Pasadena: What is your thought process here? I haven’t a clue from your comment.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Sorry. I was referring to the last reporter.
Brachiator
@Baud:
Yep. That was the plan. As usual, Trump screwed this up. Couldn’t even do betrayal right.
Gin & Tonic
@Dan B: “Givernment” in that context usually means ministerial-level, what would be called the Cabinet in the US. They are united. The unicameral parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, unfortunately has members whose loyalties are questionable – just as in the US.
sab
@Brachiator: Leader unsteady on his throne since he botched Covid so badly.
“Squirrel!!”
Johnnybuck
Only thing Putin is doing here is making NATO stronger.
mrmoshpotato
@sab:
Are they already jerking off to a war that hopefully won’t happen?
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: Right. Idiot. Biden could not have been more clear.
Jeffro
@Brachiator: ?
I said ‘dealt with’, not what they’ll choose to do/keep doing.
debbie
@Brachiator:
He kept telling NATO to pay him lots of money…. ??♀️.//
MagdaInBlack
@sab: Stirring shit.
Jeffro
why are folks feeding the troll?
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
The people who run faux news are all in. They seem to feel that money is far more important than the country, the constitution, democracy. They want a dictatorship with someone they can control (puppet strings!), that will give them the freedom to hate at will, demand whatever the hell they want, and to give the people zip, zero, nada, bupkis. Followers not citizens. There are a few rethugs in congress that want a conservative government, but not what faux news wants.
Kirk Spencer
@Mike in Pasadena:
That’s actually quite a large exception, I think.
I mean, if you’re only able to see pure positions of white or black I suppose it’s not there. But for shades of grey there’s a very discernable difference. In my opinion, of course.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: And we have intelligence agencies? Hot! Dog!
WaterGirl
@Sanjeevs: I just approved your first comment. (Or at least your first comment with that device, email and screen name.)
Now your comments will show up for everyone right away.
Mike in Pasadena
@Gin & Tonic: i agree, it’s right to oppose putin, I admit I’m still bitter about the Iraq operation fuck up
JPL
@zhena gogolia: Perfect!
If Putin wants to save face, he could withdraw and say the military exercises was to deter Biden, the real warmonger. Fox would agree and Biden could rest assured, he saved Ukraine from a bloody battle.
Dan B
@Gin & Tonic: I hope the Verkhovna Rada are not feeding info to Russia.
oatler
The whole situation reminds me of a Ionesco play, or to quote willy Wonka, “The suspense is terrible. I hope it’ll last.”
Kirk Spencer
@Jeffro: Because Mike in Pasadena has been a non-troll several times in the past. And because I’ve watched more than a few bouts here that had pieing and yelling and such against honestly held opinions. Which is not itself trolling.
Sanjeevs
@WaterGirl: Thanks – I’ve commented many times before but been out for a while
Jeffro
@Kirk Spencer: oh ok
except ‘not feeding the troll’ doesn’t mean pieing or yelling or anything…folks can just not respond. it’s technically an option.
Mike in Pasadena
President Cheney set an example for others to pull variations on the same shit. Think up a phony baloney pretense, make up shit, and go shock and awe on a weaker country. Reap what you sow.
Kirk Spencer
@Jeffro: Technically, yes. And technically the GQP isn’t a seditious organization.
Kirk Spencer
@Mike in Pasadena: If you think Bush/Cheney set the example, you need to read more history.
PJ
@sab: there’s a weird way of thinking among certain people on the far left, that everything the US does is bad, therefore the US has no right to say or do anything contra any other country’s actions. The upshot is that US foreign policy should be one of acquiescence to every country’s bad actions. As if foreign policy were premised on some of kind of morality game – Iraq (or whichever war you prefer) means that the US should sit in the penalty box for the rest of history and passively accept whatever a brutal dictator wants to do regarding his neighbors.
WaterGirl
@Sanjeevs: I thought I recognized your nym, which is why I added the caveat.
In the comment I replied to, you only had two zeros at the end of your email address instead of three. So to WordPress, that was a new email address.
Mike in Pasadena
Cheney and W were like Putin. We’re gonna stomp thru your shit cuz we can. Quit yer bitchin’ suckers, no whining. So we wreck your country and create ISIS. So what.
Tim in SF
Congress should pass legislation requiring Chris Murphy to explain everything complicated.
Another Scott
@Gin & Tonic: Thanks for the correction. Appreciated.
Cheers,
Scott.
Dan B
@Mike in Pasadena: At the time of the Iraq War I had a friend from Baghdad who was horrified at the disbanding of the military because it put a million men, mostly young, out of work. She predicted they’d be drawn to radical groups. She wanted Saddam gone. She’d been an anesthetist for many operations where his opponents had their ears cut off. And her neighbors in Baghdad were from many different sects and all got along. Military might means nothing unless you can win the peace.
Another Scott
That’s the thing about war – it rarely goes according to plans. Especially to bad plans.
(via CherylRofer)
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Fair point. I don’t see anyone dealing with Fox. Murdoch is too adept at evasion.
Another Scott
WH.gov transcript of Biden’s remarks and the brief Q&A.
Cheers,
Scott.
buggrit
@sab: I would settle for a bar fight.
Ksmiami
@Ruckus: fucking hang the entire Murdoch clan…
Mike in Pasadena
@zhena gogolia: thank you for your thoughtfulness
Mike in Pasadena
@Kirk Spencer:
@Kirk Spencer: Cheney and W didn’t set an example?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in Pasadena: It suggests that your grasp of history goes no further than 21 years back.
Mike in Pasadena
@Dan B: You are right, Saddam was a bad guy. Did that justify our invasion and Rummy’s love of Shock and Awe? From my posts, I really don’t think it did. YMMV
Jinchi
Not just bribed, implicitly threatened.
Everyone expects a false flag operation by Putin to justify his invasion. That would involve dead Ukranians on “Russia’s” side of the battle. People for him to avenge.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott: There’s nukes now, which changes the whole equation. If the correct analogy is to World War I, it lasts an hour or two and we all die. I kind of doubt that’s how it goes, though, because everybody already knows that.
J R in WV
@Kirk Spencer:
Oh, yes, they ARE !!!
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: Yup.
On the other hand…
There have been at least a couple of times when Russian military people have not launched nukes when hotter heads might have (sensor malfunctions; fear that Reagan was attacking, etc.). We really don’t know how things would go if it ever came to that… :-(
(via CherylRofer)
Cheers,
Scott.
Soprano2
@Dan B: The disbanding of the Iraqi military was easily the stupidest thing the Bush administration did after invading Iraq. Our military was taken by surprise by that move – according to Tom Ricks’ book the generals in Iraq were planning to use them to clean up and rebuild. They were pissed when they got the word about the change of plans. Oh, and racing by all those weapon and ammo caches was beyond stupid, too. Lots of stupid associated with the Iraq War and Occupation.
Gary K
Petty comment, I know, but why is there a loud music bed under Sen. Murphy’s video?
texasboyshaun
@Mike in Pasadena: Dude, chill TF out. You’re not witty, you’re recycling talking points from 20 years ago, and the only mushroom cloud involved anywhere is the one in your head.
texasboyshaun
@Brachiator: May “everything Trump touches dies” extend to Putin and his cronies.
trnc
@Mike in Pasadena: WTF are you going on about? There clearly aren’t a ton of Iraq invasion supporters here, to say the least. Regardless, that misadventure has fuck all to do with this situation. First, as trite as it may sound, doing the right thing is the right thing to do, no matter how badly you’ve fucked up in the past. Second, if your premise is that Putin feels like Bush/Cheney/Iraq gives him cover to invade Ukraine, that seems pretty thin because the Biden administration doesn’t look one fucking bit like the Bush administration.
You’ve made your point about Iraq. Maybe try again with something relevant.
Miss Bianca
@oatler:
Did Willie Wonka say that? I’d forgotten. He is actually quoting Oscar Wilde, there.
Another Scott
@Miss Bianca: Yup. Tenor .gif
Cheers,
Scott.
brantl
@Mike in Pasadena:
@zhena gogolia:
He’s not wrong.
brantl
@Kirk Spencer: Yeah, remember Grenada?