One of my favorite lines of dialogue in The Birdcage:
Albert : [discussing abortion] Oh, I know what you’re going to say. “If you kill the mother, the fetus dies, too.” But the fetus is going to be aborted anyway, so why not let it go down with the ship?
A real bill in North Carolina:
NC Bill 158 would make it legal to murder a pregnant woman who intends to get an abortion if you are “defending the life of a baby”. pic.twitter.com/JwVnzkoSL1
— Musclesandnursing (@musclesnnursing) July 17, 2022
I assume it has no chance of passing and hope it never will. But to borrow another line from The Birdcage, the North Carolina bill is just following the forced-birther’s train of thought to a logical, yet absurd conclusion.
Open thread.
Jesse
Frist?
Baud
God messed up by not including an AR-15 for the fetus as part of the gestation process.
HinTN
@Baud: That’s what genetic engineering is for.
HumboldtBlue
Glidwrith
It’s worse than that. The bill says fertilized egg is a person, so the way they define birth control as an abortifacient, you are guilty of murder if you use it.
SpaceUnit
This all makes perfect sense in a 2022 sort of way.
Villago Delenda Est
It’s all about punishing women for daring to have sex, and to have actual agency, and not be the chattel of some asshole white male cishet “Christian” medievalist.
Villago Delenda Est
@HumboldtBlue: Sue Rokita into penury. Make him suffer.
Dangerman
Can’t indict Trump; his base might start acting irrationally.
dmsilev
A bit of a respite: The Washington Post interviews the social media star-du-jour, Emmanuel the emu.
Burnspbesq
Never bet on the North Carolina legislature doing anything other than the worst thing imaginable.
Leto
Matt McIrvin
@Glidwrith: just to be clear: chemical birth control (including Plan B) doesn’t, actually, primarily work by preventing implantation of a fertilized egg; it prevents normal ovulation so that conception doesn’t happen.
The manufacturers could never exclude the possibility that it might in some cases prevent implantation after conception, so they don’t say it doesn’t. But the idea that this is the normal way it works is anti-contraception propaganda, intended to classify birth control as an abortifacient.
Needless to say, your hardcore from-the-moment-of-conception types all do believe it works this way.
RedDirtGirl
I am really losing it. This made me giggle. I am horrified. And yet my response was to giggle as if it was the funniest thing I had ever heard.
dm
I note that all bets are off if the fetus is convicted of a capital offense.
trollhattan
California passed a law legalizing breaking a car window to rescue a pet stranded in hot weather. Is this like that, only the window is a human?
dm
@Matt McIrvin: True. But IUDs work by preventing implantation.
trollhattan
@Matt McIrvin: The good old “Never say never” clause.
HumboldtBlue
@Villago Delenda Est:
Agreed.
Meanwhile, in D.C. —
EarthWindFire
It finally happened. My head just exploded.
trollhattan
DougJ/Pitchbot, at it again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/w2rxt9/its_gonna_get_worse_yall/?sort=confidence
Matt McIrvin
@dm: Oddly… IUDs mostly prevent fertilization, too (by blocking or killing sperm). One wouldn’t think that’s the case, but it is. They may just be preventing implantation in some cases.
Jerzy Russian
Jesus, Maria, y Jose.
I was going to ask if a bill could be anymore fucked up than that one from North Carolina, but if I were to ask it, someone would respond with a link to an even more fucked up bill, which, in turn, would make me even more depressed. So I won’t ask.
ian
Can one of our jackal lawyers explain this one to me? That last sentence is throwing me for a loop. Are they saying the state does not need to punish people who take the lives of those who have committed a death penalty offense? Is this a green light for vigilantism? If we exclude the born/unborn thing the sentence reads “to punish those who take the lives of persons who have not committed any crime punishable by death”
Also- this appears to be a bill to put it on the NC ballot in 2022, so I assume the goal is to drive up Republican turnout
Alison Rose
And this is why Gov Newsom says we need to stop calling them pro-life.
(Well, one of many reasons.)
These fucking ghouls.
Edmund Dantes
@ian: going to open up a lot of domestic violence murders defense as “I killed the (crude word) cause she was going to abort the baby” for the right kind of defendants (white and moneyed).
dm
@ian: I think what they’re doing is leaving a loophole in the sanctity-of-human-life for those who execute people convicted of capital crimes. That is, the human-life of the convicted is no longer to be protected by the state.
Scout211
@Matt McIrvin: But you are talking about “emergency birth control” not “medical abortion pill” right? Added: too many people think they are the same thing.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/the-abortion-pill
SiubhanDuinne
@HumboldtBlue:
From Axios:
The 17 arrested lawmakers are:
Matt McIrvin
@Scout211: Yep, exactly. Two different things.
HumboldtBlue
@SiubhanDuinne:
Good trouble.
Kay
@Leto:
Religious fundamentalists pushed their way in past this woman and her physician and forced her to accept substandard medical care that put her at greater risk for a bad outcome. They are directing what health care women may receive according to their religious dogma.
American women will no longer receive best practices health care in pregnancy. They will receive only the interventions that meet the religious test of these laws. Against their will.
If you’re a pregnant person in one of these states best to get out of there. You’ll be utterly helpless to obtain proper, modern health care if/when the emergency happens and you’re flat on your back.
robmassing
They all think they’re just trying to out-nutjob each other, but I guarantee you there are plenty of nutjobs who are ready to enforce this atrocity
Leto
@Scout211: and this is where #boycottWalgreens comes in.
schrodingers_cat
67% of white women in NC voted for this in 2020.
Gravenstone
“It is a matter of indisputable scientific fact…”
Science would like a few thousand words of rebuttal, you inbred cretinous yahoos.
gvg
Lawmakers don’t have the right to murder women. I want to see some smart policemen charge the lawmakers with intentional murder. If I were on a jury, I’d convict. This is intentional murder.
Gravenstone
@trollhattan: The man gets an inordinate number of bites on his tomfoolery, no?
Gravenstone
Which The State does by willfully destroying the lives of innocent persons who refuse to bow to it.
Kay
It’s kind of mildly amusing to me how misogynistic and brutal the actual anti-abortion base are compared to the slick, media trained spokespeople for the anti-abortion “movement”.
For so long we only heard the well compensated spokespeople but now the real brutality towards women is just exploding – they can’t control it. The anti-abortion base is ugly and you see it with the mask stripped off.
I’m pleased we’re seeing how ugly and brutal it is because of course that was always true and the fancy lawyers on the Right were never “the movement”, not really. The base want her on that table losing a liter of blood and in agony for hours against her will. That’s the goal.
JDM
@gvg: Except don’t we have laws that protect lawmakers from repercussions due to their actions, much as we do with cops?
kindness
It’s Gilead. They want control over women nudging right up to ownership of ’em. But please don’t call it slavery. That would be crass.
Wag
@trollhattan: IUDs also make the uterus inhospitable to the sperm, preventing fertilization in the first place.
Another Scott
I’m sure these RWNJs are signing up shock troops to free all the unjustly confined cells sitting against their will in vats of liquid nitrogen.
It’s just a matter of time. After all, there have already been lawsuits from cells being damaged… (from 2018)
And that was an award for the adults, before Dobbs. Who will be the legal entities defending these “lives” now??
As Kay has reminded us, there’s lots and lots of consequences from changing the legal status of collections of cells…
Grr…,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I hope every woman who’s ever experienced a high risk pregnancy — and there are millions of us — makes that connection.
Kay
I was reading about the ten year old rape victim and one of the members of anti-abortion base in the comments suggested she be forced to carry the child to 32 weeks and undergo a C-section if it was determined her small body couldn’t perform the one and only function they care about. He suggested this as a charitable, humane compromise. He’s sitting on his ass somewhere feeling that he not only has the right to control her body, but the right to control the specific interventions and medical care she receives.
That’s who we’re dealing with. These are the folks who will be in the examining room with you, in the delivery room with you, making all the decisions with the full weight of state power behind them.
Another Scott
I thought I successfully posted a comment, but there’s no sign of it. Could someone check the rubbish bin?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Old School
@schrodingers_cat:
So screw them?
mrmoshpotato
I’m right there with ya.
schrodingers_cat
@Old School: They need to wake up to the fact that they too are in the Republican cross-hairs and not vote for them.
Rs already lose among women of all other demographic groups. If enough white women stop voting for Rs our politics will be transformed.
The Thin Black Duke
@schrodingers_cat: Let’s see how many white women vote for this madness in the upcoming midterm elections.
mrmoshpotato
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’ve always wanted to be able to vote for her twice, but now I really do! Bravo!
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
It can change in an instant. One minute you’re a smug Right wing pregnant woman who votes for this wanting the sluts punished, thinking you’re safe as houses, and the next your delivery falls of a fucking cliff and you come to the horriying realization that religious zealots will be making all the medical decisions. Too late! Better rip that IV out and get thee to a free state because these people? They’re going to kill you.
schrodingers_cat
@The Thin Black Duke: I am hoping that enough will to unleash a political tsunami against the Rs. We shall see if that happens.
The Thin Black Duke
@Kay: Women are going to die. Let’s see what the number is before they pay attention.
Tony G
“Shifting the Overton Window”, as the kids say. The fact that this psychopathic legislation was even proposed in the first place, and the fact that it will get a significant number of Republican votes, means that this insane idea is now within the spectrum of acceptable opinion. That means that any other law that is “less extreme” — such as, for example, killing a woman AFTER she is forced to give birth — will now be closer to the middle of the “Overton Window”. This is what we’re up against.
HumboldtBlue
@Kay:
It sounds so much like hair-on-fire hyperbole, and yet you could not be more spot on.
Cameron
@dm: Hey, if the fetus stood its ground, it’s clearly innocent.
Another Scott
Trying again…See #44 above.We have to vote the monsters out.
Cheers,
Scott.
Peale
I’m surprised they haven’t started finding women who aren’t pregnant for the cost of monitoring them. Look, the natural state of the female is to be with child, so each month you’re not, you must have been up to something, and the only way to prove that you’re not is to have a bun in the oven. All those little angel babies in freezers that can’t be disposed of could be put to good use.
Hungry Joe
@SiubhanDuinne: Sara Jacobs — my rep! It’s her first term; she replaced the meh backbencher Susan Davis. Her fourth day on the job was 1/6/21.
West of the Rockies
I hope the Returdlicans who put forth bill 158 in NC and their entire party apparatus are made to babble defenses and walk backs… they must suffer on a quantum scale. They have to own this shit.
Ruckus
@Dangerman:
I shouldn’t.
I can’t.
I should!
Oh but I did get a snort out of that!
Gretchen
@The Thin Black Duke: They were arguing last week that 52 under-14s having abortions in Ohio wasn’t « that many » so rape/incest exceptions weren’t necessary. I think it’s going to take some high-profile, gory deaths to get it into their heads that this is dangerous.
Splitting Image
@Jerzy Russian:
It’s probably not even the most fucked up bill to come out of North Carolina. It used to be legal to “finish what you started” if a woman withdrew consent during sex. This was repealed in, um, lemme see. Oh yeah. 2019.
The article notes that resistance to repealing that particular law came from the evangelical community. Imagine that.
Tony G
@Glidwrith: That’s right. And, needless to say, every woman who has a miscarriage (also known as a “spontaneous abortion”) must be arrested, detained and prosecuted as a murderer unless the woman can (somehow) prove that the miscarriage was, in fact, spontaneous. This has been done for years in El Salvador, and probably in other countries.
James E Powell
@schrodingers_cat:
That right there is our problem with respect to abortion rights. Our view – reflected in the tags on this post – is that this is about women’s rights, that it’s a war on women.
67% of white women in NC and a majority of white women nationally don’t see it that way. Or at least they sure haven’t voted that way over the last thirty years.
Our situation right now is the product of three elections: 2000, 2010, and 2016. White women either don’t agree with us on abortion rights or they don’t think abortion rights is important enough to determine their votes.
I have no idea how to change this.
Gretchen
Republicans in KS got a bill to amend the constitution to allow them to outlaw abortion on the August 2 primary ballot, in hopes it would quietly pass with nobody noticing. The Vote No campaign outraised the Vote Yes (to outlaw abortion) campaign by a couple of million dollars. The Catholic Church contributed heavily to Yes. My neighborhood is blanketed with Vote No signs, with Very few Yeses, but I hear the proportion is reversed out west. Postcards to Voters is writing postcards for the No campaign. I hear the polling is about 50/50. I’m trying to comfort myself that everyone who has a Vote No sign had to make an effort to get one – the Democratic office kept running out, demand was so high – while the Yes signs were being passed out at churches. I sure hope this goes down. Abortion is already illegal in MO and OK. I’m on my way over to vote now.
Steeplejack
@HumboldtBlue:
Popehat weighs in (thread):
Threadreader version here.
Tony G
@Splitting Image: Now that the individual states are in charge of abortion policy, there will be a “race to the most fucked-up”. Who will win? Texas? Kansas? South Carolina? We’ll see.
Baud
@Splitting Image:
To be fair, they disproportionately face the situation of women deciding to withdraw consent during the act.
Ruckus
@Kay:
I know how to fix this. There are 2 ways.
First, females, never have sex ever again. OK yes, that’s not a good plan but still, it works.
Or
Second, males can never have sex ever again. OK that might be harsh, can a one yr old have a vasectomy?
And yes I do see some issues with this plan. But anything else leaves it up to humanity to grow the fuck up and be responsible. And that seems a hell of a lot farther far fetched.
Kropacetic
@Baud: Yes means yes. Even if other facts or the mood changes.
Don’t like the way he handles you? Gotta keep going.
Don’t like how he’s talking to you? Keep going.
Condom slight of hand? Shoulda said no to begin with.
HumboldtBlue
@Steeplejack:
Interesting, thanks.
Ruckus
@Gretchen:
The only possible way for this to register in those closed minds is for it to happen to them. And even then it’s at least an even chance that they still will be walking around with their heads located in their exit orifice.
Kay
@The Thin Black Duke:
I love how these freaks don’t seem to understand how families work. Their concept of women as walking, talking wombs. When you kill the mother in your zeal to force her to deliver the dead 16 week fetus the whole family loses her, including her other children.
It’s such a fucked up view of a family, like you can just sacrifice a central figure and it doesn’t matter.
I think it does! I don’t know what kind of families these people came up in but throwing mom overboard is pretty profound.
RaflW
TWIN FALLS, Idaho (AP) July 18, 2022 — The Idaho Republican Party has rejected adding language to their platform to allow an abortion to save the life of the mother.
KMVT-TV reported that a majority of the roughly 700 delegates from around the state rejected the change to the party’s existing platform during its three-day convention that wrapped up Saturday. The platform does not have the force of law but states the party’s position it wants Republicans in elected office to follow.
— —
They’re saying that they will stand by as a woman dies of an ectopic pregnancy. She won’t be around to try again. She’d leave any living children motherless.
They are blinded by a fervor akin to insanity at this point.
I don’t know how that rump 3rd of America ever comes back into reality, but they’re gonna control several states and maybe the whole ball of wax.
EarthWindFire
@James E Powell: Ancedata: a lot of those women never thought they’d pull the Roe trigger. Don’t have ancedata on how they’ll vote now that they have.
billcinsd
@trollhattan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x0fPZrPV3M
sab
@Betty Cracker: They won’t . One of my Catholic nieces won’t make the connection even though her sister had an ectopic pregnancy a couple of years ago.
Kropacetic
Once one has accepted that a woman has no rights over her own person and her primary role is to produce children, it isn’t a huge leap to say “they’re all interchangeable, just get a new one.”
Betty Cracker
Interesting story at CBS News about people from neighboring states with more restrictive laws are coming to Florida for reproductive care. DeSantis’s ban after 15 weeks recently went into effect (no exception for rape, incest or human trafficking), but the law here is less restrictive than neighboring states like MS. That’s pissing off Florida’s forced-birthers:
I bet DeSantis wishes someone would stuff a sock down Shirvell’s throat and keep it there until election day, but I hope he keeps talking to national media outlets. Reap the whirlwind, motherfuckers.
AM in NC
Speaking as a North Carolinian, I am ready to cut a motherfucker.
trollhattan
@RaflW: Having been to Twin Falls I’m unsurprised insane things are occurring there.
Imagine what they’d decide if they were meeting in Hayden Lake?
Splitting Image
@Gretchen:
Good luck and fingers crossed.
billcinsd
@Leto: or the woman who had a miscarriage and they wouldn’t treat her until she filling up a diaper an hour with blood
https://dnyuz.com/2022/07/17/after-new-abortion-laws-some-patients-have-trouble-obtaining-miscarriage-treatment/
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker: Convince me his misspelled name isn’t Shrivel.
Dude founding an anti-abortion group–seems on-brand.
Kropacetic
The dog caught the car just as it was backing up.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Taking the North Carolina bill to it’s logical end they should just execute women at puberty on the grounds they are potential abortionists.
The Thin Black Duke
@Kay: Unfortunately, it’s not that complicated, I’m afraid. Black people are born into a reality where it’s understood that some white people hate hate HATE us. However, for some reason, women can’t wrap their minds around the fact that more than a few men in this culture HATE them and don’t care if they die. It’s going to be a hard lesson to learn.
Another Scott
There’s one scene in the utterly forgettable movie Mother, Jugs & Speed that has stuck with me.
That’s just a small part of the past that these monsters want us to return to.
We have to vote them out.
Cheers.
Scott.
Jay
Anybody know what’s going on with Wonkette.
It won’t load on my phone.
p.a.
The template:
Journal of Alternative Perspectives in the Social Sciences(2013) Volume 5 No 2, 294-322
Consequences of Romania’sAbortion Ban under Ceausescu’s Regime:
To achieve the demographic goals of the state,Ceauşescu criminalized abortion in 1966, demanding that each family have at least four children. In the 23 years that ensued (1966-1989), the policies enforced were among the most brutal in the world, resulting in serious socioeconomic consequences for the Romanians.
Decree 770, which came into being on October 1st
1966, instituted severe measures and punishments with the goal of eradicating abortion, effectively subordinating the people to the power of the state.
The new law created mechanisms of absolute control over people’s reproductive lives: gynechological exams became mandatory for women in their fertile years, and childless couples over the age of 25 were charged a celibacy tax (Scarlat, 2005; Kligman, 1998)
Although modern policies that ban abortion tend to have low efficacy, as they not so much decrease demand as shift it from legal to illegal markets, in Romania the abortion ban was very effective in the short run.
Decree 770 was implemented in October 1966. It effectively banned abortion, except when: a) the mother’s life was at risk; b)one of the parents had a hereditary disease; c) the woman was physically or mentally handicapped; d) the woman was at least 45 years old; e) the woman already had four children; or f) the pregnancy occurred as a result of rape or incest (Scarlat, 2005)
In order to effectively achieve its demographic goals,the government started to stringently regulate gynecologists and nurses in hospitals and maternity homes. It also implemented mandatory gynecological exams, without which women could not access public health care services. These policies led to a sharp decrease in the availability of back-alley abortions. At the sametime, although not officially prohibited, contraceptives were not available in the Romanian marketplace(Kligman,1998). Schools did not teach sexual education and the government used its propagandizing to advertise only the positive sides of maternity. Even movies that showed how to avoid a pregnancy were censored (Kligman,1998)
Lower income families, especially those in rural areas, were affected the most by the new laws, as their lack of financial resources restricted their access to illegal methods of family planning. Better off families were able to adapt to the new regulations more easily, leading to the creation of a black market for contraceptives and abortions (Lataianu, 2001; Pop-Eleches, 2005). While this resulted in a decline in fertility rates in the ensuing years,it is clear that in Romania, as in other countries where abortion has been banned, the burden fell on the poor, as individuals with higher economic means resorted to illegal markets and fraudulent medical diagnoses that allowed for legal abortions (Kligman, 1998).
As mentioned before, the upper classes in Romania were most able to access family planning methods, with the burden of the abortion ban falling on the poor and rural populations wthose choices were severely curtailed.
In Romania, a country that espoused strong “pro-family” values, the relative impoverishment of families led to high numbers of child abandonment. The difference between public discourse and action was striking: poverty and exhaustion led to such exorbitant child abandonment rates that state institutions could not take in any more members, and their infrastructure was so poor that children were kept in cages, often malnourished.
This situation increased infant mortality and infanticide rates to such a point that the government would not register a newborn until two weeks after their delivery (Kligman, 1998).
This conflict between government intervention and individual will led Romania to have the highest maternal mortality rate in Europe – by 1989, Romania’s maternal mortality rate was 169.4 per 1,000 women, in comparisonto 49 in Russia, the communist country with the second highest rates (Lataianu, 2001). This naturally led to a high number of orphans: Trebici (as cited inLataianu, 2001).
Dan B
@dm: And would there be accessories to this crime? Fetus causes death of woman but she didn’t get pregnant all by herself…
Any of you cis het boys feeling anxious?
Mike in NC
@AM in NC: I must thank God every day that we tossed that rat bastard Pat McCrory after one deplorable term and replaced the loser with Roy Cooper.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
We shall discuss Mother’s inappropriate use of anesthesia another day.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
I’ve often thought black people could.ake some bank teaching others how to cope with the spread of fascism.
Suzanne
@EarthWindFire:
100%. There’s a lot of women who never thought they would have to actually act/vote to protect their right to an abortion. It’s been “the water we swim in” long enough that it’s easy to detach oneself theoretically from the effort to repeal. We all know this: it’s very easy to say when you would or wouldn’t do in the absence of actual reality, constraints, laws, limits.
Another Scott
@Jay: Works here on my Android phone and on Winders.
HTH a little.
Cheers,
Scott.
Old School
@Jay: Wonkette loads fine for me.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I try to imagine wanting to start a family in Idaho, but knowing that if the pregnancy goes awry, I’ll be left to die
Anyway
The TX snitching law did it for me. That was so fucked up and unAmerican, really, and I still can’t believe it became law.
brantl
@Glidwrith: Most birth control prevents fertilization, by one means or another. Wait til they say that sperm are already a complete zygote. They don’t know shit about science, I don’t know why they won’t do that.
HumboldtBlue
@The Thin Black Duke:
I was fortunate enough to grow up in a household with an extraordinary mom and four extraordinary sisters. I’ve said it here before, but one of the hardest lessons I learned as I became an adult male is just how many men HATE women. And I keep getting lessons in that hate each and every day.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
This should be a required disclosure for ob/gyns to give to newly pregnant people in Idaho and other red states.
SpaceUnit
NC residents will have the chance this November to elect Democrat Cheri Beasley to fill the senate seat that is being vacated by Richard Burr.
Perhaps leopards going door to door will help get out the vote.
Leto
@Baud: if society/humanity won’t take the lessons from the people who survived the Holocaust, then I’m not sure how much of a “market” there is for it.
Baud
@Leto:
This would be liberals teaching less experienced liberals. Not so much “society,” but the people harmed by society.
schrodingers_cat
@James E Powell: In all those elections the threat was hypothetical now it is real in the states where Rs dominate. Hopefully that will make the difference. We shall see.
Sure Lurkalot
@Betty Cracker:
Definitely in between a rock and a hard place for Florida pro-choicers! On the one hand, you must so want the creep to overreach but at the cost of hurting so many who need the health services.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jay:
It’s been weird for me since at least yesterday morning (can’t remember if I tried it at all over the weekend).
ETA: iPhone, Safari
Suzanne
@HumboldtBlue:
Funny you say that. I was talking to my ex-husband, who was raised by a single mom, grandmother, and grew up with a sister…. and he said the same thing. That he always intellectually understood that lots of men hold women in some level of disregard…. but that the utter contempt and hatred for women who are active agents of their own lives was something that he didn’t really grok until recent days. Simone de Beauvoir was absolutely correct about subject/object and the unresolvable tension and how it manifests as this really pathetic dependency and that only makes more hatred.
Kropacetic
Posted as reply on dead thread but I wanted to move this one up
Did anti-abortion activists give up when they didn’t get what they wanted after one election? Two? Twenty five?
Some are ready to give up with zero elections having transpired since Dobbs.
Adding: Dobbs demonstrates the power of voting every single time.
Suzanne
<a href=”#comment-55528″>@HumboldtBlue</a>:
<blockquote>I’ve said it here before, but one of the hardest lessons I learned as I became an adult male is just how many men <strong><em>HATE</em> </strong>women. And I keep getting lessons in that hate each and every day. </blockquote>
Funny you say that. I was talking to my ex-husband, who was raised by a single mom, grandmother, and grew up with a sister…. and he said the same thing. That he always intellectually understood that lots of men hold women in some level of disregard…. but that the utter contempt and hatred for women who are active agents of their own lives was something that he didn’t really grok until recent days. Simone de Beauvoir was absolutely correct about subject/object and the unresolvable tension and how it manifests as this really pathetic dependency and that only makes more hatred.
lowtechcyclist
@Gretchen:
So “that many” is a ‘pro-life’ threshold for how many lives matter, is it?
Well: in all but a handful of abortions, only one fetal life is being ended. That isn’t ‘that many,’ is it?
Especially after a million Americans died of Covid-19 and they didn’t give a damn. I guess a million lives didn’t qualify as ‘that many.’
HumboldtBlue
On another note, I am watching The Morning Show on Apple Plus, and it’s very good. My initial reaction was, “oh no, this is just gonna be a show about more rich white woman’s angst” but it’s far deeper than that. The show focuses on how women navigate spaces in a man’s world in the era of the Me Too movement.
Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon are the two main female protagonists (Witherspoon is fantastic, what an actor she is!) and Steve Carrell (always brilliant) is the main male protagonist dealing with a world in which the Me Too movement has caught up to his rapey ass. Carrell and Martin Short have one absolutely brilliant scene where they discuss the current climate and how rapey men are being canceled. “As men in the Me Too era, we have to tell our story. Do you think we can get Cosby?”
On more than one occasion I was ready to roll my eyes (with all the rich white woman’s angst and all) but each time the plot twist had me back rapt in attention. Aniston is pitch-perfect, and the added flavor of women and men of color having to navigate those same white male spaces strikes every chord as well.
It’s worth a watch.
Sister Golden Bear
@The Thin Black Duke:
Also true for LGBTQ+ people, some cis (and/or*) het people simply hate us and want us dead (and not metaphorically).
*Unfortunately, there’s cis LGB folks who hate trans folks, as well as cis LG folks who hate cis B folks, with the same level of hate.
Suzanne
<a href=”#comment-55528″>@HumboldtBlue</a>:
<blockquote>I’ve said it here before, but one of the hardest lessons I learned as I became an adult male is just how many men <strong><em>HATE</em> </strong>women. And I keep getting lessons in that hate each and every day. </blockquote>
Funny you say that. I was talking to my ex-husband, who was raised by a single mom, grandmother, and grew up with a sister…. and he said the same thing. That he always intellectually understood that lots of men hold women in some level of disregard…. but that the utter contempt and hatred for women who are active agents of their own lives was something that he didn’t really grok until recent days. Simone de Beauvoir was absolutely correct about subject/object and the unresolvable tension and how it manifests as this really pathetic dependency and that only makes more hatred.
ETA: comment getting caught?
Betty Cracker
@The Thin Black Duke:
Wow.
Zzyzx
I don’t think that bill’s goal is to kill a pregnant woman but rather to make it open season on anyone who tries to help her. Mind you, that’s not any less terrifying.
Oh to go back in time and punch whoever came up with this whole Senate idea…
Kropacetic
@lowtechcyclist: Life ends at birth. Or at least being pro-life does.
mr perfect
@The Thin Black Duke: Children get murdered in school shootings because of insane gun laws so they won’t give a rat’s anus for women dying from miscarriages. “God’s will.”
Ruckus
@Kay:
“I don’t know what kind of families these people came up in but throwing mom overboard is pretty profound.”
They didn’t come from families. They were hatched in dirty alleyways. There is no other reasonable explanation.
We in the US are in a bad place. We are arguing with people that think they want to live in the world of 2000 yrs ago. A world where nothing was good, food was whatever you could scrape together, you might know a couple hundred humans, could be eaten by wolves most any night, and worshiped to a god that other humans supposedly had nailed to a cross for the simple crime of not being an asshole and they learned nothing from that.
I ask, what is so bad about this world? About having the people of this country to be free and in charge of their own bodies? About working and per chance being part of the human race? Of at least being kind and working for better? Why does humanity go through this concept of trying to return to a life that sucked donkey balls every few
decadesyears, rather than looking forward? Instead they look for answers up their own asses? How does that even work?Lapassionara
@Gretchen: we lived in Kansas for a while. We were surrounded by Republicans. Every woman I knew was pro-choice, but voting for Republicans was just so ingrained. This was in the 1980’s.
Kropacetic
@mr perfect: School shooters are instruments of God*. Not only should we allow them unrestricted access to their tools of choice, we should let them be free to perform God’s will.
*I always gotta remember they capitalize their version.
Ohio Mom
@Kay: That is part of the Jewish rationale for permitting abortion, the recognition that the woman is woven into her family and community and that those established, ongoing relationships have priority.
Miss Bianca
@Another Scott: And hell, that was supposed to be a comedy, right? Good times.
(I’ve never seen the movie, btw, tho’ I remember as a larval feminist – I must have been eight or nine at the time of its release – feeling very offended that Raquel Welch’s character was referred to as “Jugs”.)
lowtechcyclist
@Kropacetic:
Certainly the latter. But the problem is, the underlying rationale for being pro-fetal-life is the notion that that fetus’ life is just as valuable and worthy of protection as yours or mine.
Now that they’ve shown beyond a doubt that they basically don’t value born lives at all, the whole thing collapses. Because there is no plausible justification for valuing fetal life more than your life or mine.
Kropacetic
I think the actual crime was pointing out their assholery, using kindness.
HumboldtBlue
thruppence
@Betty Cracker: Decades ago I was a cabbie and I heard one driver say to another: “I hate women but they got all the p***y”. I think he was joking and also telling the truth.
Miss Bianca
@brantl: Hey, they’d just be going back to ancient times. Wait till they start quoting Aristotle about how sperm are complete little homunculi, while the woman is just the passive gestation vessel. Hell, they already believe that.
Miki
@dmsilev: “In their first joint interview, Emmanuel stared into our Zoom call, then at Blake, then away from the screen. He refused to comment.”
Channeling Mike Flynn ….
Ruckus
@Kropacetic:
Sorry, haven’t read the book in more than a few decades.
Got the gist OK if not the correct premise.
trollhattan
@HumboldtBlue: Enjoyed it, and it has any number of gut-punches for those expecting yet another meta-newsshow show. Acting is uniformly terrific and Carrell is the latest iteration of a comic showing us what a dark character comedians can craft when the opportunity arises.
Captain C
@Kay:
Enforced sadism (on the correct people, of course) seems to have been a goal of the Right since the days of legal slavery. Especially against women and non-whites.
Fair Economist
@Jerzy Russian:
No matter how bad they get, Republicans can always get worse.
And do.
Kropacetic
@Ruckus: I don’t know the actual crime he was accused of, but I don’t think he would have drawn the negative attention of the law if he was passively not being an asshole.
He went against the power structure.
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
Especially if the fetus can’t/doesn’t actually live. Which 2000 yrs ago humans had only one way to know. Birth.
We have better information now.
Captain C
@Kay:
Enforced sadism (on the correct people, of course) seems to have been a big goal of the Right since the days of slavery, especially on women, children, and non-white men. And they want everyone to be happy with it and help them out.
trollhattan
@HumboldtBlue: At this point I’m wondering if all they do in the wild is prank one another all day. We need to rig up a bunch of emucams and find out.
AM in NC
@Mike in NC: A-fucking-men. And McCrory’s supposedly one of the “reasonable” Republicans. We saw how that went when he actually held power.
HumboldtBlue
@trollhattan:
She said in the interview linked above that we are only seeing a small part of the madness. The animals love the chaos. And I am convinced Princess the deer was biting her arm because she keeps treats in that pocket and wanted one.
Argiope
@dm:
No, they don’t. The copper IUD’s primary mechanism of action is spermicidal (the copper does it). If a copper IUD is used as emergency contraception, AND placed after both sex and fertilization but before implantation, it can interfere with implantation. But only under those circumstances. If it’s placed after sex but before ovulation, it kills sperm before they reach the egg. Levonorgestrel IUDs aren’t used as EC at this point, and they work by thickening cervical mucus so sperm can’t reach the egg.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I don’t understand how letting the pregnant person die preserves a fetal life
NutmegAgain
In other news, the Covidiots are now taking “black market” Ivermectin. Horses and other livestock have complaints!
Eunicecycle
@NutmegAgain: OMG that’s still a thing?
schrodingers_cat
@Kropacetic: Indeed it defies all logic that these same people who think voting in every election is too much of an ask think revolution or a general strike will be easier.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay:
It’s always “sluts must be punished” with this crowd.
Kropacetic
@schrodingers_cat: Looking for a one and done.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
Props to Andy Levin (D-MI), the only male on that list. I’ma throw him some money.
trollhattan
@NutmegAgain: Cut with fentanyl? One can hope.
Geminid
@AM in NC: It was a dreary day after the 2016 election. Roy Cooper’s election as North Carolina’s Governor was a bright spot. He won by about 10,000 votes I think, but in 2020 he increased his margin to over 250,000 votes.
Burnspbesq
@The Thin Black Duke:
Far more than you would ever imagine. “It will never happen to me” is a powerful drug.
Betty Cracker
@HumboldtBlue: I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the Emmanuel saga and have already used one of his friend’s admonishments on a wayward dog: “Don’t choose violence today!”
Baud
@Geminid: That really is an amazing jump.
The Thin Black Duke
@Burnspbesq: So is Deniel.
HumboldtBlue
@Betty Cracker:
Oh, you and 10 thousand other people! Just a wonderful story, and hell, Betty, you can even swing by and visit the chaos.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
Who’s Daniel?
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Me forgot how to spell. Hey, the grey matter short circuited a week ago.
The Thin Black Duke
DENIAL. (sheesh)
TiredOfItAll
Yeah, what is it with [white] women supporting Republicans? And how about those Log Cabin Republicans? I don’t get it. Is it like a masochism fetish or something? I mean, I really don’t get it.
Betty Cracker
@HumboldtBlue: Is the farm in Florida? I’ve just seen a few clips on TikTok.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Speaking of DeSantis, FL is on fire with COVID again.
COVIDActNow – Florida
Tops in the USA!! (Weekly admissions per 100k.)
Be careful down there. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
JaneE
So when the pregnancy goes wrong and the mother dies because you cannot harm the unborn child no matter what, is that fetus guilty of a capital crime? If by some miracle the child should survive the death of its mother, would it be charged with a crime?
Geminid
@Steeplejack: Interesting to see Veronica Escobar on the list too. She is an ally of Beto O’Rourke, and took over his El Paso House seat when he ran for Senate in 2018. Before that Escobar was El Paso County Judge, a powerful position in Texas.
Escobar’s Wikipedia biography is quite interesting. She was communications director for a reformist Mayor of El Paso in the early years of this century. After the old guard turned him out, Escobar, businessman Beto O’Rourke and activists Steven Gomez and Susie Bird got together and made a plan to reshape El Paso city and County politics, and they succeeded. The four came to be known locally as “the Progressives.”
Suzanne
@Burnspbesq: Lots of white women don’t realize how much contempt men have for them because it’s also tied up with being sexually desired.
HumboldtBlue
@Betty Cracker:
Yup, South Florida, check the first link early in the thread, she did an interview with WaPO.
Suzanne
@TiredOfItAll:
Why are you confused by this? Lots of women support conservatives because they hate liberals.
Liberal policies are much more popular than liberals.
Villago Delenda Est
@The Thin Black Duke: It’s not just a river in Egypt.
Villago Delenda Est
@JaneE: It’s out of the incubator, so it’s fair game.
TiredOfItAll
@Suzanne: I’m confused because I have a hard time understanding people who are complicit in their own self-destruction. I guess my brain just doesn’t run that way. Unless, maybe they think somehow they’re…..special? Bwahahahahahah.
catclub
What the heck will fertility clinics do with extra fertilized eggs?
The joke about protecting a mass of fertilized eggs in such a clinic, instead of a kindergarten will come true.
Villago Delenda Est
@catclub: Again, once the “baby” is out of the womb, it’s on it’s own. Fair game for psychopath ammosexuals who want to engage in massacres.
catclub
@TiredOfItAll:
More like a lower taxes fetish (with the assumption that the leopards won’t tear off my face).
Subsole
@Kay:
Never vote for a jail you wouldn’t be comfortable sleeping in…
Subsole
@Peale:
Get ready for your monthly workplace tampon inspections, kids…
Another Scott
@TiredOfItAll:
Obligatory, The Lottery (18:19).
Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
Parts of London are burning,
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/major-incident-declared-across-london-after-huge-surge-in-fires-and-homes-destroyed-on-uks-hottest-ever-day-12655061
different-church-lady
@SpaceUnit:
Emma from Miami
@Ruckus: I have an even crueler one. Set up a way to monitor the women related to these law-makers. Every woman my age remembers what “rheumatic fever” or “a trip to (wherever)” was. Any of them leaving the country or their state must submit to an examination before being allowed to leave.
Vicious. We won’t do it because we’re decent people. But a small, evil part of me wants to afflict them as mush as they afflict others.
Subsole
@Tony G:
I got five on Oklahoma.
Scout211
The House passed the marriage equality bill 267-157 with 47 Republicans joining all the Democrats present.
Baud
@Scout211:
Interesting.
sab
@catclub: They want to outlaw fertility clinics.
Anyway
@Suzanne:
Yep, I’ve seen this and don’t get it at all.
Liberals used to considered “kewl” but I am afraid that may be changing and and they are now back to being perceived as humorless scolds. It’s hard to combat the non-stop gaslighting by Rethugs and amplification by MSM without coming across as earnest.
catclub
@p.a.:
I hope that 169.4/1000 is a typo.
The maternal mortality rate in Mississsippi is 22 per 100k births
and it is worst in the US, which is worse than Modern European Countries.
HumboldtBlue
@Scout211:
Including Cheney.
Also,
Kropacetic
@sab: Infertility must also be God’s will.
Citizen Alan
@Ruckus:
It was regularly reported by abortion providers that anti choice women would have abortions on the sly, condemn the Providers for their sinful ways the whole time, and be right back out on the picket line a week later. Because their abortions were moral abortions unlike all those other slutty sluts.
Baud
@Anyway:
I’m still cool.
Mallard Filmore
@Old School:
As a lecherous old fart, where do I sign?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anyway: I heard an interview with Tim Miller– apostate Republican who wrote a book called “Why We Did It”, elect trump– and he quoted a friend of his who explained his hatred of liberals by saying, among other things, they called me a racist! That was part of Tucker Carlon’s “Why should I hate Putin?” rant, along with “Russians don’t eat dogs”. People who (I would bet a large amount of money) use the phrase “I don’t have a racist bone in my body, but…” really hate being called racist. I mean, they’ve told you: Not a bone.
Alison Rose
@TiredOfItAll: So long as other people–the ones they hate–are getting it worse, they’ll go along. Plus, as far as the white women, a lot of them suffer from permanent Cool Girl™ syndrome. All that matters to them is the men around them think they’re great and not like THOSE women. You know, feminists and shit. Gross.
Subsole
@brantl: Because that could put some jot of liability on the man.
After all, even a conservative knows sperm comes from the man. If it came from the man, then the man might (theoretically) bear some tiny potential of a sliver of responsibilty for his actions.
And these motherfuckers are most emphatically NOT here for that.
ETA: So very, very much of conservatism is basically offloading responsibilty for one’s life onto other groups. The women have to be responsible, not the men. The slaves have to do the work, not the overseers. The poor have to carry the econony, not the executives.
It’s all, ALL about shifting the burden for one’s chouces onto someone else. Ideally, someone you don’t like.
Mallard Filmore
@sab: If you can’t save both mother and fetus, you are praying to a defective god.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Was that on Pod Save America? Because I listened to that today too. It was a good interview
ETA: It was about why Republicans sold their souls for Trump
MinuteMan
@Jerzy Russian:
The GOP nut cases in the Senate and the House pale in comparison to what’s running around in the state legislatures. Fortunately, their crackpot bills die a rapid death as they’re usually too crazy for even the state level GQP.
Suzanne
@TiredOfItAll:
Literally a lot of people just do not think about it. They do not “put themselves in the shoes of others” or game out what-if scenarios. They practice mental avoidance because grappling with these things leads to uncomfortable conclusions. It’s not even denial, it’s literally aversion of the gaze.
CaseyL
@HumboldtBlue: In order to subjugate someone – a whole class of someones – you have to convince yourself they need and/or deserve it.
Patriarchy has taught men to do this for thousands of years. It’s ingrained, automatic.
The more polished misogynists try to cloak their hatred in something else: protectiveness (“You need me because you can’t defend yourself”), or backhanded praise (“Women are the civilizing influence! … that’s why they can’t have any actual power”), or some similar pablum.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Sister Golden Bear: @The Thin Black Duke:
Let’s not forget the gay men who HATE women and revel in the fact they don’t have to pretend otherwise to have sex.
Suzanne
Literally a lot of people just do not think about it. They do not “put themselves in the shoes of others” or game out what-if scenarios. They practice mental avoidance because grappling with these things leads to uncomfortable conclusions. It’s not even denial, it’s literally aversion of the gaze.
Subsole
@Kropacetic: That’s a bumpersticker for you: “pro-life ends at birth”
Baud
@Subsole:
Seconded. That would work well on a car.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Agreed.
Mallard Filmore
@brantl:
They don’t have to. Since there is no right to privacy, they can simply ban all contraceptives without bringing zygotes into the picture. It’s been done in the past.
sab
@Suzanne: That’s a very useful insight.
HumboldtBlue
@CaseyL:
I hear ya, it makes sense, and it works across all demographics — race, gender, ethnicity etc…
Elsewhere,
These fucking idiots:
zeecube
@NutmegAgain: Ms. Zeecube was watching one of her Housewives of _____ the other night when one of those dog heartworm medicine commercials came on. Take one guess, what is the main ingredient in the medicine that kills heartworms?
Betty Cracker
I’m going to make a tone-policey suggestion that everyone is free to ignore — I’m saying it as a fellow commenter, not a board moderator. Here goes:
Approximately one in four women in the U.S. has experienced a violent sexual assault. About five million a year are victims of domestic violence. Upwards of 60% of U.S. women identify as feminists, but the patriarchy exists, and anti-feminism among women is a thing too. The reasons for that are pretty fucking complicated, and yes, the net result is, it sucks.
It’s probably also helpful to bear in mind that the societal consensus that women are fully adult human beings is not only incomplete (and moving backwards at an alarming clip in the U.S.) but a fairly recent development. My mother couldn’t get a credit card without my father’s permission, for example, and I’m not even all that old.
In light of all that, broad, sweeping statements like “women don’t know” blah blah blah or “white women need to” yada yada yada can come across as…unhelpful. Being more mindful of the circumstances in which these wretched pathologies fester and more precise with our language might be a good idea. Or not! Just something to think about, if you care to.
Mallard Filmore
@Kropacetic:
Ted Cruz said very recently that if you don’t like these laws, vote for politicians that will do a better job. Sure Ted, my freedoms and even my life should go to a vote every 2 years.
Welcome to America!
Another Scott
Relatedly, …
Good, good.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Cracker:
Thank you!
Baud
@Another Scott:
Baud
@Mallard Filmore:
Should? No. Does? Yes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
that’s the one. I don’t really get the whole “go on Rogan” thing, but. I’ve never listened to Rogan. Maybe that would be something good for Fetterman. I dunno
ian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This Tim Miller? From Huffpo and Driftglass
Not an anti-Semitic bone in his body, I’m sure.
Scout211
@Betty Cracker: Thank you.
Subsole
@Ruckus: I read an interesting comment on twitter the other day.
They (black) made the point that most sci-fi seems to be simply taking situations that are reality today for nonwhites and applying them to whites. Not sure I see that, but they did say something that rang very true:
Most sci-fi today, they said, seems to be made for people to indulge the fantasy that under the correct circumstances, they could, in fact, be resilient.
I think a similar sentiment is at work with romanticization of prior eras.
(It’s not helped by the fact most folks are stock stone fencepost ignorant of how things actually were. Seriously. Some of these uggos would step out of the time machine and yell at the Saxons for not speaking English…)
Subsole
@Kropacetic: How else would you tell him from all the other gods he supposedly replaced?
Suzanne
@CaseyL: de Beauvoir wrote (in summary, paraphrasing) about how men are existentially frustrated by the fact that they want women who are autonomous enough to freely desire them but submissive enough to do what men want them to do. Subject and object, eternally in tension.
This is why saying “men hate women” is true but simplistic. It doesn’t ring true to a lot of men because they desire (some) women very much. But they don’t really love women as active agents of their own lives.
Gin & Tonic
@catclub: I’m not in a position to confirm or deny those statistics, but Romania under Ceasescu was a special kind of hell. So the numbers could very well be right.
Just look at the exit his people gave him.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The guy’s absolute scorn for Elaine Stefanik was entertaining
Subsole
@Eunicecycle: Ivermectin’s not just a cure-all. It’s a testosterone booster, immune strengthener, topical balm, hell, it’s even a desert/floor polish!
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
“In light of all that, broad, sweeping statements like “women don’t know” blah blah blah or ““white women need to” yada yada yada can come across as…unhelpful. Being more mindful of the circumstances in which these wretched pathologies fester and more precise with our language might be a good idea. Or not! Just something to think about, if you care to.”
Sounds very, very reasonable and wise to this white, male, old fart.
I don’t have the perspective to make judgements upon how women think and feel. I can imagine, I can know what an individual woman thinks – if she tells me, but I’m not a mind reader of minds that might possibly have the same vantage point as me, let alone minds that see the world from a different perspective. I can understand there will be differences between me and anyone else, I can have sympathy, understanding, I can even fight for someone else’s perspective, but know it first hand, especially fully understand? Yeah I don’t think so.
Gretchen
@Lapassionara: I moved here to KS in the 80’s and registered as a Republican because the Ds had no chance. We’d run someone every time but were startled when Dennis Moore won a few years later. This district was close for Clinton and went for Biden. We got a new Dem rep, Sharice Davids, in 2018. They tried to redistrict her out, but she’s been very active with veterans and small business. They’re running a “no abortion, no exceptions” person against her. I don’t think this is the year for that.
Mallard Filmore
@Baud: It works better with a snark tag added.
Subsole
@Subsole:
*dessert.
Good lord, brain…
Kropacetic
@Subsole: I wasn’t considering that, good point.
I was on my own perception of god; basically a combination of everything that ever was and ever will be mixed with the holy spirit, which I consider to be some fundamental underlying thing connecting us all. Pronoun: it.
Jay
@Betty Cracker:
Bill Arnold
@dm:
Occasionally two early embryos will fuse (“tetragametic chimerism”), and the child that is born has genetic material for two people. One is generally dominant and their genetic material controls the brain. Did they murder their sibling? (In adult humans, brain death is sufficient to declare death. So no brain, no life, but Christian Supremacists disagree.) How many souls are bound to the body? If there are two souls, does the non-dominant soul pay through eternity in hell if the phenotype of the dominant genome is not a “Good Christian”?
So many questions.
catclub
@Gin & Tonic: I found another paper. It has:
at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1949105/
so typo.
Bill Arnold
@dm:
Occasionally two early embryos will fuse (“tetragametic chimerism”), and the child that is born has genetic material for two people. One is generally dominant and their genetic material controls the brain. Did they murder their sibling? (In adult humans, brain death is sufficient to declare death. So no brain, no life, but Christian Supremacists disagree.) How many souls are bound to the body? If there are two souls, does the non-dominant soul pay through eternity in hell if the phenotype of the dominant genome is not a “Good Christian”?
So many questions.
Roger Moore
@The Thin Black Duke:
I think the core problem is that White women have conflicting issues. On the one hand, they ought to be worried about men hating them. On the other hand, a lot of them hate Black people just as much as White men do. The numbers suggest the hate is stronger than the fear.
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
At least Manchin and Sinema vote for practically all of Biden’s nominees. They may be worthless in so many other ways, but at least they do this.
Roger Moore
@lowtechcyclist:
Sure there is. A fetus is innocent, while you’re a dirty sinner. You claim to have followed the law, but we all know you did something wrong.
Kropacetic
Their policy intransigence definitely has worth to some people.
Ealbert
@Gin & Tonic:
Actually, what surprised me (it has been a long time since this was in the news), is that what the Republicans are proposing is way to the right of this. He allowed for women whose health would be dangerously impacted by pregnancy, who already had 4children and those who were over 55. Who knew that our right wing could make him look responsible.
Roger Moore
@TiredOfItAll:
It’s hate. Their hate for Those People is more important than the fear of being hated themselves. White women hate Blacks (and LGBTQIA+ people), gays hate Blacks and women, and so forth. They think as long as they hate enough of those other people, they’ll be part of the gang.
Roger Moore
@Suzanne:
Yep. Lots of liberal policies poll well until you tell people they’re liberal.
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
Yep. We all have blind spots. Some people’s blind spots are relatively microscopic, some have blind spots as big as Montana and have way too many. IOW their visions are relatively microscopic. If that big.
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What they’re really saying is they’re invertebrates. This should be unsurprising to anyone who’s seen them operate. It’s way easier to slither under the bar when you don’t have a skeleton getting in the way.
Eunicecycle
@Subsole: it was funny both ways!
Miki
@The Thin Black Duke: “However, for some reason, women can’t wrap their minds around the fact that more than a few men in this culture HATE them and don’t care if they die.”
True fuckin dat. And, for reasons that I am murderous about, too many of us deny our experience of that hatred. WTF?
Eunicecycle
@Roger Moore: I remember years ago the Cleveland Plain Dealer had a list of policies without a party assigned to it and asked people which policies they agreed with. People pretty strongly favored Democratic policies. This was probably in the 90s so before today’s polarization. And Ohio was much more Democratic then, but the results were still surprising.
J R in WV
@sab:
My aunt had one when I was still a little kid, so around 1960 — she was properly treated in a southern WV hospital and so was able to bear my cousin, who is my only surviving relative on that side of my family.
We’re pretty close, and I wouldn’t have him if treatment of an ectopic pregnancy had been banned. We haven’t talked about this since the Supreme Fuckers fucked with the nation’s rights, but days after TFG, SFB was elected I ran into him at the grocery, and he pulled out an ACLU membership card and showed it to me.
I was a member of the ACLU, but didn’t have a card to carry in my wallet, so I wrote them a slightly hostile email, and we got our cards ASAP after that.
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore:
But God loves me just as much, whether I’ve sinned or not. Though I don’t make silly claims about having followed the law.
leeleeFL
There is but one method to prevent this bullshit. Women have to go Full Lysistrata and have no, I repeat, no sexual intercourse with men until they stop it. If rape becomes their answer, self-defense becomes the watchword. Arm ourselves, shoot the rapists, and let God sort it out! She can let them live, maimed. Object lessons and all that. THIS IS INSANITY, AND IT MUST END!
This Country ii being led down a dark road, but people unfit to lead rats!
Roger Moore
@leeleeFL:
Voting. Women need to vote for people who will respect their rights and treat them as full human beings. If they all do that, they’ll be free to have intercourse with whomever they choose, because we’ll be free from these assholes.
Subsole
@Baud: Good, Baud! Keep hammering the ventilation and temperature regulation benefits of going pantsless!
A timely message, as ever.
leeleeFL
@Roger Moore: Voting goes without saying, but I voted in 2016, the shit-gibbon got into office, the Supreme Court was completely borked by him and McConnell, and here we are! Women need to take control of their bodies until men get the message. I know it’s not all men, I know some women agree with overturning Roe. But if most of the men who want to take us back to the f-ing middle ages were not getting laid, they might just reach an awakening.
OB
@Jay: I was debating emailing rebecca! Wasnt sure if my oldazz iphone or Wonkette or disqus!
@Jay:
Uncle Cosmo
@The Thin Black Duke: “Denial” is not just a mountain in Dyslaska.
Uncle Cosmo
For many years the public face of socialism in Baltimore was one A. Robert Kaufman (1931-2009), who I got to know when I was a college student and he was in his late thirties. Bob maintained that the way to promote socialism was to promote the policies it stood for – because many people would agree with those policies – and hold off mentioning the S-word for as long as possible. “Wouldn’t it be nice if…” and “Wouldn’t it be better if…” over and over as the audience nodded. Eventually, he thought, someone would ask, “Great, but is there any way we could do all those things as a society?” so that he could reply, “There is – it’s called ‘socialism’.” And hope that no one would start throwing heavy objects at him. Didn’t work, even then, but he tried.
cleek
That NC bill was from Feb 2021 and it died in committee.