Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

If you’re looking for someone who’s young and athletic, go watch a fucking movie.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

“Let’s not pretend [Trump] wants to engage in high-minded discourse.”

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

We still have time to mess this up!

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Attack on Speaker’s husband sounds like domestic terrorism

Attack on Speaker’s husband sounds like domestic terrorism

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Here’s an excerpt from the Wall Street Journal coverage:

The intruder shouted, “Where is Nancy?” before attacking her husband, one of the officials said.

The intruder broke in through a sliding-glass door and beat Mr. Pelosi with a hammer, one of the officials said, leaving him badly injured with wounds to the head and body. The alleged assailant was arrested.

The suspected attacker has espoused extreme right-wing views on social media, including conspiracy theories about Covid-19, according to one of the law-enforcement officials.

Here’s further information on the suspect, 42-year-old David DePape, from CNN:

Last year, David DePape posted links on his Facebook page to multiple videos produced by My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell falsely alleging that the 2020 election was stolen. Other posts included transphobic images and linked to websites claiming Covid-19 vaccines were deadly. “The death rates being promoted are what ever ‘THEY’ want to be promoted as the death rate,” one post read.

DePape also posted links to YouTube videos with titles like “Democrat FARCE Commission to Investigate January 6th Capitol Riot COLLAPSES in Congress!!!” and “Global Elites Plan To Take Control Of YOUR Money! (Revealed)”

Two days after former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin was found guilty of killing George Floyd, DePape wrote that the trial was “a modern lynching,” falsely indicating that Floyd died of a drug overdose.

So, yeah — a violent rightwing nutcase, which means the attack was almost certainly domestic terrorism. According to the SF police briefing, DePape attempted to tie Mr. Pelosi up and wait for the Speaker to return home, presumably so he could assault her too.

Kevin McCarthy, who recently said it would be “hard not to hit her with it” if Nancy Pelosi relinquishes the Speaker’s gavel to him after the midterms, sent thoughts and prayers, I assume.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

306Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    Lock him up.  What a lunatic.  Sad there are so many out there

    And I have to wonder how easily anyone recovers from a hammer blow to the head?

    Interesting the lunatic was not able to access firearms.  In California.  Moar on this story, please.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    I know how GOP voters would react if a lib tried to hurt one of their leaders like this.

    The injuries sound worse than the initial optimistic reports. Really glad NP wasn’t home.

  3. 3.

    waspuppet

    Please call this what it is? (I’m especially talking to our media stars here.) This was an attack on the Speaker of the House. She wasn’t there, but the guy didn’t know that.

  5. 5.

    Scout211

    The GOP responses are coming in and most are gracious, except for Rand Paul who had to use this moment for a revenge tweet:

    “No one deserves to be assaulted,” the Republican lawmaker wrote on Twitter Friday morning. “Unlike Nancy Pelosi’s daughter who celebrated my assault, I condemn this attack and wish Mr. Pelosi a speedy recovery.”

  6. 6.

    WaterGirl

    Do we know how Mr. Pelosi was able to summon the police while he was being attacked?  I wonder if they have some sort of panic-button setup.

  10. 10.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl: This would suggest that they have an alarm system set up with the police department. Link

    Reports state that he broke into the house.  In an early report they called it a “home invasion.”

    San Francisco Police Chief William Scott told reporters Friday that responding officers witnessed the suspect attacking Paul Pelosi with a hammer.

    “When the officers arrived on scene, they encountered an adult male and Mr. Pelosi’s husband, Paul,” Scott said. “Our officers observed Mr. Pelosi and the suspect both holding a hammer. The suspect pulled the hammer away from Mr. Pelosi and violently assaulted him with it. Our officers immediately tackled the suspect, disarmed him, took him into custody, requested emergency backup and rendered medical aid.”

  13. 13.

    Elizabelle

    Interesting news bite for the day an edgelord assumes control of Twitter.

    This attack is the fruit of the poisonous rightwing media sphere.  I hope no one shies at investigating that.

    Heard the FBI is on the case, too.

  14. 14.

    Burnspbesq

    It’s hard not to give in to the temptation to say that this guy deserves to spend a long time in Marion or Florence.

  15. 15.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: Capitol police are in charge of security there. Pretty sure they would have sensors to detect the intrusion or they caught the approach to the home on security cams.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    @Scout211:

    Our officers observed Mr. Pelosi and the suspect both holding a hammer. The suspect pulled the hammer away from Mr. Pelosi and violently assaulted him with it.

    Mr. P fighting back!

  21. 21.

    Scout211

    Family members are only protected when they are with their spouse.

    The security detail for lawmakers, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, does not protect their family members, including spouses, when the members of Congress are not with them, according to multiple sources. Some lawmakers have received additional security in their home districts from local police departments and private contractors.

    After the attack on Pelosi’s husband, Paul Pelosi, GOP Rep. Adam Kinzinger told CNN that the threats against his own family included one that mentioned killing his young child. But when he asked US Capitol Police for additional security, they essentially told him to “get in line,” Kinzinger said.

    Like other lawmakers, Kinzinger’s security detail does not protect his family when he is not with them, and the lack of assistance provided by Capitol Police has meant his campaign would have to foot the bill for any additional security.

  24. 24.

    TaMara

    This is what they want. They want the lunatics to go out and create chaos. And hurt people.

    They don’t care who dies in the process, they’re willing to sacrifice their crazy followers (see guy who attacked the FBI), so long as it advances their ability to hold onto power. Just make sure you vote before you die (which was probably their motto during the height of covid, too).

    I’m so sick and angry about this attack…

  25. 25.

    Jay C

    @Martin:

    According to recent reports (last hour or so), there wasn’t any “official” security on duty at the Pelosi house: local LE says the assailant got in “though the back door”. And is now in slam awaiting arraignment on charges of attempted murder (among others)….

  29. 29.

    JPL

    @Scout211: I assume that the suspect was white, which would account for the fact that he’s alive.  White guy, mental illness, nothing to see here.

  30. 30.

    Elizabelle

    More on the attacker.  He was raised in British Columbian (he’s Canadian??); came to California 20 years ago to “pursue a relationship.”  Was living in a storage unit in Berkeley, and supported himself making hemp bracelets.

    Already a bit crazy, and then he discovered rightwing media.  How many more like him are out there?

    We have the attack on Gabby Giffords that killed 7 in a parking lot.  The Florida Trumphumper who was sending pipe bombs to George Soros and various Democrats.  I can’t even recall them all.  Much like mass shootings in this country.  You cannot keep up.

    This is a problem with rightwing media agitating and developing the crazies.

    From CNN:

    Two former acquaintances of David DePape, the suspect in Paul Pelosi’s attack, told CNN he exhibited concerning behavior over the years.
    Linda Schneider said she got to know DePape roughly eight years ago and that he occasionally housesat for her in California. When they met, she said, DePape was living in a storage unit in the Berkeley area and told her he had been struggling with hard drugs but was “trying to create a new life for himself.”
    Schneider later received “really disturbing” emails from DePape in which he sounded like a “megalomaniac and so out of touch with reality,” she said. She said she stopped communicating with him “because it seemed so dangerous,” adding that she recalled him “using Biblical justification to do harm.”
    Laura Hayes, who also lives in California, said she worked with DePape for a few months about a decade ago making hemp bracelets when he was living in a storage shed in the Berkeley area. She said DePape sold the bracelets as a business.
    “He was very odd. He didn’t make eye contact very well,” Hayes said.
    She recalled him saying that “he talks to angels and there will be a hard time coming.” But she didn’t remember any seriously threatening comments, and said she didn’t think much of it because “it’s Berkeley,” a place where eccentric characters aren’t uncommon.

  31. 31.

    JPL

    OT Today I voted for Warnock, Abrams and anyone else identified as a democrat.   I went a few minutes before 8 am and was out in ten minutes.

  32. 32.

    Martin

    @Scout211: Yeah, and Capitol Police are still in charge of security there.

    Special agents with the US Capitol Police’s California Field Office “quickly arrived on scene, while a team of investigators from the Department’s Threat Assessment Section was simultaneously dispatched from the East Coast to assist the FBI and the San Francisco Police with a joint investigation,” according to a statement.

    They may not have agents on site in the manner the Secret Service does but that doesn’t mean they aren’t in charge. Even the secret service works with local law enforcement.

    Part of the reason for this is that local jurisdictions don’t always have the resources to maintain security for a prominent federal official. Yeah, it’s not a burden on SFPD, but it would be for most congressional districts.

  36. 36.

    different-church-lady

    Kevin McCarthy, who recently said it would be “hard not to hit her with it” if Nancy Pelosi relinquishes the Speaker’s gavel to him after the midterms, sent thoughts and prayers, I assume.

    Sure, like he’d be even that civil.

  37. 37.

    gvg

    @Scout211: I don’t see how capital police could provide security for family all over the country. Funding is only part of it, there would be jurisdiction issues too (IANAL). On the other hand police chiefs and sheriffs are rather random in their quality and some of them are actually egging this stuff on. Not sure what the solution is but it will involve money. We can’t assume that the system will deal with it. I think this is rather new so we have not yet made a system that does.

  44. 44.

    Tony Jay

    I wonder which excuse will gain the most momentum on the Right?

    Clearly this Canadian, hemp-weaving hippy is a warning of the dangers of legalising drugs.

    Clearly this was a Lone-Wolf radicalised by The Liberal Media constantly advocating Nancy Pelosi’s San Francisco Values.

    Clearly we can’t rule out the possibility that this was a domestic dispute between Pelosi’s husband and secret lover that got out of hand.

    Clearly this wouldn’t have happened in a Stand Your Ground state.

    Clearly these are crisis-actors attempting to distract from the massive fraud required to prevent California swinging Red Next month.

    It’s not like they’re going to admit that one of their own just tried to murder the Speaker of the House. That might not look too good.

  49. 49.

    Ksmiami

    @TaMara: There needs to be limits on what types of speech is appropriate in a Democratic society. Germany does not have 24-7 pro- Nazi media. We need to stop tolerating intolerance

  50. 50.

    oatler

    We need a big-ticket law talkin’ guy to oversee every minute of the police investigation, because you can guess there’s a lot of big money interested in it.

  51. 51.

    Elizabelle

    @Ksmiami:  As a matter of fact, since Germany has outlawed swastika imagery, you are now seeing …

    Confederate flags.  Someone raised one on a US Army base last year.  To my knowledge, perp never caught.

  53. 53.

    Martin

    @Ksmiami: To be clear, limiting censorship doesn’t mean limiting accountability for speech. That’s sort of the idea – we are supposed to correct for speech on the back-end. You call for violence and then violence happens, you are now culpable for that violence.

    Problem is that our justice system is not really up to that task right now

  56. 56.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Alison Rose: Easy: blame it on California being a shithole full of homeless people who haven’t been rounded up into homeless people’s prison, which is a standard right-wing line already.

  59. 59.

    Betty Cracker

    The suspect in the attack recently urged Trump to pick Tulsi Gabbard as his 2024 running mate and says Ukraine is being depopulated so Jews can buy the land cheaply.

  61. 61.

    President Johnny Gentle (Famous Crooner)

    “false flag,” “mental illness,” blah blah, cue all the usual bullshit from the “What, me encourage terrorism?” crowd. Fuck those people.

  62. 62.

    TheTruffle

    Governor Youngkin had this to say, per Twitter: “There’s no room for violence anywhere, but we’re gonna send her(Nany Pelosi) back to be with him in California.”

    Disgusting.

  70. 70.

    Dangerman

    RedState has published the attacker is from Berkeley and, of course, that means he’s a Lefty. Deep thinkers all there.

    Wonder how long it will be until it’s corrected.

  77. 77.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Key sign of where this is headed.

    David Raskin, highly seasoned federal prosecutor, has joined DOJ team on Trump’s handling of classified docs. Comes off of his recent success in Espionage case with many similarities.

  78. 78.

    Elizabelle

    @TheTruffle:  OMG.  Too true.

    WaPost has a small story about it.  Link has video.

    Um, political “messaging” in the headline ??  What a weird ass choice of words.

    Take a look: Youngkin turns Pelosi attack into political messaging against speaker

    Virginia Republican Gov. Glenn Youngkin used the attack on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband as a way to encourage voters to push the Democratic leader out of office.

    Campaigning with Virginia GOP House candidate Yesli Vega on Friday, Youngkin suggested Republican voters would send the House speaker back home to be with her husband.

    “Voters are getting ready to stand up again and say we have had enough — enough of Abigail Spanberger, enough of Joe Biden,” Youngkin told the crowd. “Listen, I want to stop for a minute and — listen — Speaker Pelosi’s husband had a break-in last night in their house and he was assaulted. There’s no room for violence anywhere, but we’re going to send her back to be with him in California. That’s what we’re going to go do.”

    The crowd cheered.

    Spokespeople for Youngkin, who has been floated as a potential 2024 Republican presidential candidate and has campaigned across the country for Republican candidates in the midterms, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

  80. 80.

    Motivated Seller

    @Alison Rose: Try this exercise: what would be the  media response if the attack were against Ginni Thomas, while the assailant was screaming, “Where’s Clarence?!”

  84. 84.

    Ishiyama

    @WaterGirl: Excuse me for not clearly identifying it as sarcasm. Do you even remember that meme about the Stooges being a bad influence because of copycat hammerings? It was the 1950s, so maybe I’m just too old.

  85. 85.

    schrodingers_cat

    So some tankies and self proclaimed supporters of BS on Twitter are gloating calling Paul Pelosi an insider trader, whatever that means

    She is effective and so she is hated by both the ends of the horseshoe even for something as inncuous as icecream

  91. 91.

    geg6

    @Baud:

    Yeah, because he wasn’t at all successful before Nancy went to Congress.

    I hate those people as much as I hate the MAGAts.

  92. 92.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Elizabelle:

    Spokespeople for Youngkin, … did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    No surprise there.

    Our rotating tag about “cruelty” is certainly apt. My naive question: what is the matter with these people? Even allowing for a dark view of human nature, didn’t their mothers tell them not to sink to the level of the people they despise? And what are they so upset about anyway?

  93. 93.

    cckids

    Republicans spend the majority of their time screaming about & promising to burn us all at the stake. They don’t get to be shocked when one of their own lights a match.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @geg6: Yeah, I don’t know his history.  I’m just aware of the meme against them.  I’ve never looked for or seen any shred of evidence to support it other than his success.

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    @Scout211:

    Rand Paul is pure scum.

    And that’s the nicest thing I can say about him.

    Likely anything else I would write would get me banned.

    There is something about getting old and watching the country you’ve lived in for over 7 decades and served in the military turn into an insane asylum full of RW nut jobs, egged on by other RW nut jobs who wouldn’t know reality if it walked up and smacked them upside the head. 50 yrs ago my rep was a member of the John Burch Society and he was a better rep than any current republican rep or senator

    Life doesn’t make one a douche bag, that is up to the particular person to decide to be or not to be one. Name one republican member of congress who isn’t one today.

  100. 100.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus: even though the Anglican Church was created specifically to remove the pope from the equation?

    And would high end whiskey sales be lower now if the pope had just granted Henry another divorce?

  101. 101.

    Alison Rose

    NYT reports that the fucker will be charged with “attempted homicide and other crimes” — can you charge someone with being a bigoted fuckwad? I wish

    ETA from another update: Chief William Scott said Mr. Depape would be charged with attempted homicide, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse, burglary and “several other additional felonies.”

  103. 103.

    cain

    @Tony Jay: I believe the winner on /r/conservative is “false flag” – it seems might suspicious for this to happen on the day Elon Musk took over Twitter. Something seems coordinated!

  108. 108.

    RaflW

    I kind of can’t get rid of my mental replay of the gruesome scene from the film Prick Up Your Ears (staring a young Gary Oldman) that represented a real, biopic hammer murder. I watched it decades ago.

    I surely hope Mr. Pelosi has not sustained too serious of injuries, but it could be grim. Dammit.

  109. 109.

    JPL

    @rikyrah: But I thought he was a mentally ill white guy.

    I don’t mean to make light about what happened, but the news seems forgiving.   I want to know why he was taken alive.

  110. 110.

    Alison Rose

    @Baud: I hope so.

    I can’t help but wonder how she felt when she was told what had happened. First just knowing her husband had been assaulted, and that it was in their home, and he’s in the hospital, and then that the asshole was looking for her.

    I honestly do not know how she has the bravery to set foot outside ever. Hearing that he had asked “Where’s Nancy” must have brought back horrid memories of those monsters chanting her name on Jan 6.

  111. 111.

    Another Scott

    I find it kinda amazing (but not really) the differences in the sound-bite reporting on this.

    “Nancy Pelosi’s husband was assaulted by an intruder.”

    “Assault” can include anything from offensive touching (no physical injury is required) to brutal beatings.

    KCRA:

    The suspect was identified as David Depape, Scott said. He was in custody.

    “Our officers observed Mr. Pelosi and the suspect both holding a hammer,” Scott said. “The suspect pulled the hammer away from Mr. Pelosi and violently assaulted him with it. Our officers immediately tackled the suspect, disarmed him, took him into custody, requested emergency backup and rendered medical aid.”

    Scott said Depape was being charged with attempted homicide, assault with a deadly weapon, elder abuse and other charges.

    The 42-year-old man broke into House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s San Francisco home early Thursday, attacking the speaker’s husband with a hammer just as police officials responded to the home.

    Police responded to the 2:27 a.m. call. Both men were holding hammers, he said.

    The 82-year-old suffered blunt force injuries to his head and body, according to two people who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing probe. He was admitted to Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital for his injuries, the hospital confirmed. His condition was not immediately available.

    Paul Pelosi was being treated by doctors for bruising, severe swelling and other injuries.

    Sounds a bit more serious than “assault” to me.

    (Emphasis added.)

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  113. 113.

    Baud

    @Another Scott:

    “Nancy Pelosi’s husband was assaulted by an intruder.”

    “Assault” can include anything from offensive touching (no physical injury is required) to brutal beatings.

    It depends on the timing.  The early reports wouldn’t have confirmed how serious the assault was, so I can see them using the broader term.  The first report I saw here this morning said simply that he was expected to make a full recovery.  I didn’t sound all that serious at the time.

  114. 114.

    Baud

    @Another Scott:

    Both men were holding hammers, he said.

    ???

    There were two hammers?

    The earlier story made it seem like they were fighting over the hammer that the assailant brought.

  115. 115.

    StringOnAStick

    My husband is Jewish and not nearly as political as I am.  I got him to start listening to Rachael Maddow’s “Ultra” podcast and he’s suddenly paying a LOT more attention because he’s seeing the parallels between the ultra right plot against the US government in 1940 and what’s been happening now.  What is amazing to me now is how little common knowledge there is of these events in the 1940’s, I suspect that our entering WWII and heavy government wartime propaganda finally made “fascist” = bad. At least back then it did; none of us grew up thinking anything else.

    The most important point to me so far in the podcast series is as true now as it was back then: they don’t see themselves as crazed right wingers, they are sure (then and now) that they are True American Patriots.  That kind of sureness is how people end up being killed.   I hope Paul Pelosi fully recovers, and I hope they buy better security for their home.

  116. 116.

    TheTruffle

    @eclare: Just say, “My thoughts are with Madam Speaker and her husband” and leave it at that.

    PS: Virginia, next time elect a better governor.

  117. 117.

    Martin

    @Omnes Omnibus: Didn’t suggest they were. We didn’t really get on with the job of genociding the natives until some time after, and that lasted centuries. I mean, go ask any Republican who and who is not entitled to live in the US and Episcopalians are going to be in the ‘allowed’ category.

    The US is what it is so that Europeans could get some cheap land. Episcopalians are just a subset of that group.

  119. 119.

    Tony Jay

    @Alison Rose:

    Fits with option 4.

    “California has had enough of Democrat incompetence, so now Newsom is laying the groundwork for seizing all of our hammers and declaring martial law!”

  123. 123.

    Ruckus

    @Tony Jay:

    “It’s not like they’re going to admit that one of their own just tried to murder the Speaker of the House. That might not look too good.”

    Do you really think they would game that out or just send it out in glee that someone they blame for all the world’s ills just got attacked with a hammer? The right in this country are getting desperate, look at how people like what President Biden is doing for the country, actually getting things that help passed. This country is recovering from the pandemic economics better than many because of him, because he understands how to make this place work.

  125. 125.

    Martin

    @Baud: I struggle to reconcile the thinking that Clarence and Ginni never shared insurrection thoughts with the thinking that Paul and Nancy don’t share not-yet-public world events that might affect the market.

    Politicians shouldn’t be allowed to invest broadly. Let them own some S&P 500 index, and leave it at that. Nancy has been wrong on this topic. It doesn’t take much info to give a pretty big market advantage.

  130. 130.

    Baud

    @Martin: I don’t believe for a minute that Nancy shares insider trading information with her husband.  If there’s actual evidence besides his success, I’m happy to consider it, but I don’t believe in making cynical inferences against Dems.

    I have no idea what information Clarence and Ginni share, but the information they would share is of a completely different nature than confidential business information.

  133. 133.

    citizen dave

    Too bad we don’t have popular vote to decide who sits in the highest Executive branch office.  If we did, Speaker Pelosi could have retired years ago during the Hillary Clinton administration.  (as I think I read was her plan)

  134. 134.

    Martin

    @Omnes Omnibus: What point are you trying to make here? I think you’ve overindexed on my use of ‘Pilgrims’ which was just a stand-in for ‘then the europeans showed up and killed everyone and took their land’. I mean, that’s sort of the salient point here – not what religious predilections those early groups engaged in.

    One day there were natives and no Christianity, and then another day there were no natives and a lot of Christianity, and nobody has clean hands here when it comes to what came in between.

  135. 135.

    different-church-lady

    Transit Police report arresting a Dorchester 14-year-old for attacking officers down the street from where Boston cops were arresting a woman allegedly trying to set people on fire in the Downtown Crossing Roche Bros.

    The sheer number of crazy people in the world is making my head hurt…​

  137. 137.

    Cameron

    I don’t know if it’s the same pattern in other countries, but here in the USA a lot of assassins and would-be assassins combine screwed-up minds with screwed-up politics.  I’m thinking of the guys who killed Garfield and McKInley and the guys who tried to kill Teddy Roosevelt and FDR.  Political motives, but a lot of other squirrelly shit going on.  Guy who tried to kill TR believed the ghost of McKinley was making him do it.  Zangara was an anarchist and he blamed capitalism for…..making his stomach hurt?  It may be even worse today, because a lot of political ideas kicking around are already nutty as hell.

  141. 141.

    Tony Jay

    @cain:

    Give it a few hours, someone will remember than the Hammer & Sickle = Communism and then “Who hid the sickle?” will become in-group MAGA shorthand for “What are the Deep State covering up now?”

    It’s one thing living in a bubble, it’s quite another thing living in a bubble they were too cheap to attach an oxygen feed to. Brain cells pop like firecrackers over there.

  147. 147.

    prostratedragon

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​ Oh, I have no doubt. Mine were old Baptists and French Calvinists.​

    To add a case in point, a friend took a visitor from UK to his Congregationalist/UCC church out on the East coast, and the visitor was stunned by how at home he felt.

  148. 148.

    Martin

    @Baud: I don’t think it’s possible for Paul and Nancy to not share. ‘Hey, how’s that virus coming out of China looking’. ‘Looks bad’.

    That’s enough. That’s not confidential business information. It’s intelligence the US has that the public doesn’t that carry very significant and easy to sort out implications for various business sectors.

    Hell, even if all he knows is that at the start of 2022 Nancy is in a lot of briefings around Russia/Ukraine, you can seriously tip the house odds on whether or not to short Ukrainian businesses. I once made about $80K on an Apple trade based entirely on a report about lagging holiday apparel sales. The whole point of insider trading laws is that the typical investor should not be lacking information that other investors have. People in government definitely have information that others don’t have – some of it specific like when I was asked to produce an employment analysis for a company looking to expand into California, and some of it general. I mean, the timings for jobs and economic reports are scheduled and published for exactly this reason – everyone hears the news simultaneously. None of it is confidential business information – it’s general macroeconomic data, and even *that* needs to be tightly regulated in order to keep investment reasonably fair.

  151. 151.

    Tony Jay

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    And as one the Right embraces an exciting new Church of Traditional Nordic Christianity so they can all wear hammers around their necks.

    “Religious freedom, Lib. Look it up!”

  152. 152.

    Baud

    @Martin:

    I disagree.  I’m confident Nancy knows what info she can share with her husband and follows the rules.  It’s the same way actual business insiders come with the law as well.

  153. 153.

    Scout211

    It’s not brain surgery as earlier reports said. Some now are calling it skull surgery. Here is the latest from NBC Bay Area.

    Pelosi was taken to Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital, where he is recovering from surgery on his head, a source at the hospital with firsthand knowledge says. Previous reports citing a hospital source said he was undergoing brain surgery.

     

    And another question answered.

    When Depape wasn’t looking, Pelosi managed to dial 911, the family member said. The family is hoping there is a recording of the conversation to provide more information.

  155. 155.

    Cacti

    This is the second time in 20 months that Republicans have tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House.

    Meanwhile, a grand total of 0 Republican politicians have been charged for their incitement of the first attempt.

    Get off your fucking ass, Garland.

  156. 156.

    Iron City

    @EThat’s why I moved to Maryland.

     

    @TheTruffle: We tried but the rethuglicans ran a much better fear mongering campaign.  This clown and hi attorney general are such tools.

  157. 157.

    Ruckus

    @JPL:

    Likely 2 reasons he was taken alive.

    First, he had to be physically stopped and that means physical force used which means cops in the line of fire.

    Second, because of #1 Paul Pelosi would also be in the line of fire and they may have actually thought killing him might be too much.

    Number 2 is just a possibility and you may notice that I left out that the attacker was white as reason #3.

  160. 160.

    matt

    I’d like to see elected Republicans renounce terrorism, but I doubt they have the character to accomplish even that.

  162. 162.

    Betty Cracker

    @Martin: Agree 100%. That sort of regulation has to be set for the lowest common denominator. If Kevin McCarthy’s spouse was a big time investor, would we trust McCarthy not to share information? Nope.

  164. 164.

    Scout211

    @Scout211: CNN has the 911 call audio. I can’t figure out how to link to it but here is their update On the 911 call.

    Paul Pelosi was able to call 911 at the start of the attack at his home in San Francisco, according to a law enforcement source and another source familiar with the matter.

    Pelosi managed to keep the line open and the dispatcher could hear a conversation in the background, according to the law enforcement source.

    Pelosi was talking in code, that source said, providing enough detail so that the operator overhearing it could understand that something was wrong. At the same time Pelosi seemed to be trying not to make it obvious to the intruder that he had an open line, the source said.

    The dispatcher could hear Pelosi speaking about what was going on and dispatched police to check on the house, the source said.

  165. 165.

    Dan B

    @WaterGirl: Youngkin believes in the right wing dogma that being callous is a sign of strength since having empathy means you cannot subdue the other.  It aligns with misogyny since women are not strong and must be protected.

  166. 166.

    WaterGirl

    @Scout211: I wonder if they had to remove part of the scalp because of brain swelling, like they did with Gabby Giffords?

    I was upset the second I read about this attack this morning, but as the day goes on I am feeling more and more angry and also so sad that this happened.

  168. 168.

    Tony Jay

    @Ruckus:

    I’m not sure what you mean. I think that the public facing GOP will spew a mixture of “thotznpreyz” and squid-ink bullshit to distract from the obvious conclusion that this was an act of political terrorism inspired by Rightwing propaganda, while the rank and file of MAGAworld will spill excitedly into their social-media safespaces to fap endlessly about how cool and exciting this all is before fracturing into smaller groups based on what flavour of conspiracy theory they prefer.

    Yeah, they’re desperate. They’re also radicalised sad deluded. It’s a scary mix.

  169. 169.

    sab

    @eclare: Technically Episcopalians aren’t Protestants. They are schismatics. They broke with Rome and the Pope without changing their theology much. The Protestant offshoot of Anglicanism is Methodism.

  170. 170.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: I’m horrified about what is happening.   Earlier I was streaming CNN and Dana Bash seems to be on the same page.   I assume she’ll be called by the higher ups soon.

  171. 171.

    bupalos

    @Baud: You don’t have to have specifically “confidential business information.” It would actually be really difficult for Pelosi to withhold the kind of information that could be useful to a trader. Like how the debt ceiling negotiations are going, whether that looks like it’s going to be a big deal or not. Lots of things like that.

  173. 173.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I don’t think presidents have much effect on crime. But if we’re going to play that game:

    1. Obama left Trump with the lowest murder rate of any president since LBJ.

    2. Trump was the first president in 28 years to leave office with a higher murder rate than when he started.

  174. 174.

    Tony Jay

    @VeniceRiley:

    “A ‘Hammer‘ is urban street-slang for a gun bought to commit a specific murder. I think that once the dust settles we’ll find that this was all gang-related. Probably a feud over drug-distribution territories or control of illegal migrant convoys.”

    Tucker Tan-Balls, tonight.

  175. 175.

    pluky

    @sab: I spent many hours listening to the priest and deacon running my Episcopalian confirmation class arguing whether the church was reformed or schismatic. The answer is a bit of both depending on where one finds oneself on the high/low church divide. My personal takeaway was the establishment of a religion has much more to do  with politics than any ostensible question of doctrine.

  177. 177.

    Baud

    @bupalos:

    Like how the debt ceiling negotiations are going

     
    So you think she actually talks to her husband about that and that he trades stock on that information. I don’t.

    Just about every person in the government has access to some sort of nonpublic information. I don’t think they are all breaking the law or engaging in corrupt practices.

    I’m ok with prophalytic rules so we don’t have to rely on evidence but if we’re going to accuse a Dem of wrongdoing, I insist on specific evidence. I’m sure Republicans feel the same way about their people.

  178. 178.

    ian

    @Baud: The appearance of wrongdoing is all that it takes to fuel political attacks and ads.

    It is a bad look politically, even if the two of them have done nothing wrong.

    I don’t know how to regulate the issue of families of congress critters enriching themselves, it is far more complicated than a simple solution.  But hopefully our political leaders see this as an issue where the public at large  wants some kind of reform.  The perception that members of congress are enriching themselves is not good for public trust in government.

  181. 181.

    Baud

    @ian:

    Perception is one thing.  That’s reasonable.  The conversation above was that Nancy doesn’t understand the rules about what she can talk about with her husband, and that Paul doesn’t understand what information he can and cannot trade on.

  186. 186.

    JPL

    from Kyle Griffin

    Breaking from Speaker Pelosi’s office: Paul Pelosi was admitted to Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital where he underwent “successful surgery to repair a skull fracture and serious injuries to his right arm and hands. His doctors expect a full recovery.”

  187. 187.

    prostratedragon

    Pluky @175: I also believe this is generally true. Can be true of not government-established religions as well.

    Note: I just had an automatic update of firefox (i.e. not requested by me, dammit) and some things are suddenly off, like being unable to reply using the button.

  191. 191.

    sab

    @eclare: John Wesley never officially left the Anglican Church. But your are right that right the Methodist Church isn’t Anglican. But its founder was.

  193. 193.

    Baud

    @JPL:

    His doctors expect a full recovery.”

    👍

    @Subsole:

    Gamergate with a thin, greasy sheen of Vaporwave Marxism smeared across it.

    That’s all the Chapo Faphouse Revolution ever was.

     

    I know I should know what those words mean, but….

  195. 195.

    geg6

    @eclare:

    That’s because the Methodist Church isn’t Anglican.  Methodists consider the Anglican Church to be only a half step further from the torments of hell as the Roman Catholic Church.  I know this because my paternal grandparents and their entire family, both here in the US and in England, were/are Methodists.

  196. 196.

    Dan B

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t understand Hunduism’s hundreds of deities.  Might be because it’s genuinely complicated to provide a story for every spiritual need.

    And… the Christian denominations are much crazy.

  200. 200.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: Protestants believe that if you believe something slightly different from your church you need to go to a different church, and if there’s none available then you make a new one.

  201. 201.

    AWOL

    @Booger: The Ferengi were played by Jewish actors and fell into Jewish stereotypes. The Ferengi  worshipped money and were treacherous. Thinking back, Quark had the best lines in the show, including noting that Worf was a psychotic.

    The Bajorans experienced both occupation and genocide from the cool-dressed, cultured Cardassians. They were also religious loons—and the show. sadly, went in that direction. When I was young, the Trekkies said they were Palestinian stand-ins. Rewatching the series, I’m unsure about that.

     

    Whatever, I consider both TNG and DS9 the best comedies TV ever produced, followed by “The Sopranos” and “Breaking Bad”—crime shows that knew nothing about crime. (At least “The Sopranos” was a comedy until Nancy Marchand died.)

  203. 203.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Dan B: The theory is that the divine  is infinite and beyond human capacity to grasp. Different deities are  manifestations of the divine we worship what we comprehend.

    Like a photo of a loved one is precious because what it represents not because the paper itself is worth something.

    Plus there has been historical Brahminical appropriation of local animistic deities into the Vedic pantheon.

  205. 205.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Matt McIrvin: This describes that nutjob Dreher. But are most protestants like that? I doubt it.

    I am allergic to religion, this India trip and the religious ceremonies part of it really tried my patience. Traditional brahminical Vedic religion bathes in patriarchy.

  207. 207.

    Matt McIrvin

    @AWOL: The Ferengi started out on Star Trek: TNG easily readable as really vile antisemitic stereotypes right out of a Nazi cartoon, though the creators of course insisted that wasn’t their intent. DS9 never managed to get entirely past that. But the writers and actors at least did a lot to make them deeper and often actually sympathetic characters, though they were usually comic relief.

  211. 211.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: The ones who found churches, definitely. But I think Protestants are generally more likely than other types of Christian to go “church-shopping” to find a sympathetic congregation. And some denominations like the Baptists have this concept of the “Priesthood of Every Believer” where it’s ultimately between you and God and the church is just supposed to be an aid to that.

  214. 214.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Matt McIrvin: That is just so weird to me. Why do you even need a congregation. I don’t think I have ever been a part of a group like that.

    As a Hindu, even the observing kind, you have an altar at your home. You light a lamp and offer prayers every day. You go to the temple(any temple) once in a while on special occasions like Diwali. Offer your prayers and come home

    Different temples have different prasad (what you get after you pray from the priest). Festival days have a special prasad. There was a Ram Temple where I grew up that had the best mix made with dried ginger, fennel and other spices for special occasions. Very fragrant and delicious.

    My interest in temples is as follows

    food

    architecture

    spirituality

  215. 215.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Princess: But Dreher started out as a Protestant and, in a weird way, by rejecting Protestantism and then Catholicism he was really embodying the tendency.

  216. 216.

    zhena gogolia

    @Matt McIrvin: We have two Congregational churches two blocks from each other because they had a split in the 18th century (granted, they weren’t in the same buildings back then, but still).

  217. 217.

    prostratedragon

    @WaterGirl: ​ Well, I just clicked on Reply again and it’s fixed all of a sudden. I swear it wasn’t working half-hour ago.

    Probably I could have found an earlier version, but I’m just one day off a few days of cell phone upgrade hell, and now realize that I’m more than a little finished with all that for a bit. Anyway, all good now.

  219. 219.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: Well, my parents eventually decided to get out…

    Dad was even going to be a minister at one point, but realized he didn’t have it in him to tell his parishioners that makeup and dancing were sinful, which was the denomination’s line at the time.

  220. 220.

    AWOL

    @Matt McIrvin: Agreed. I was born a Jew. But I could live with the anti-Semitism more than I could live with Rom gaining 56 IQ points or his son becoming an officer in Starfleet six months after joining the Academy.

    DS9 is worth a revisit in the canon. It’s religious for a show that swore to remain Humanist. It is anti-Semitic.  Young Jake Sisko’s character became so stunted it bordered on racism. It foreshadowed a lot of sexual kinks we see in modern adult erotica and fantasy novels—stuff that I’ve worked on as I toil in the evil world of publishing.

  227. 227.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: With the Baptists there’s definitely a tension between the whole Soul Freedom/Priesthood of Every Believer thing that is supposed to be fundamental to them, and the distinctly authoritarian quality of their worship. The Southern Baptist Convention, say, isn’t supposed to act like they’re the Vatican or something. But somehow they get really pissy when someone insists that a true Christian might not be hardcore anti-abortion and anti-gay-rights.

    (…my folks had been American Baptists, the branch that wasn’t pro-slavery in 1861. But it still wasn’t what anyone would call a liberal church.)

  230. 230.

    CaseyL

    @Eyeroller: I often think the Abrahamic diety is a grifter who showed up long after humanity started sorting itself out, saw that local “gods” had a good thing going (it feeds on adoration), and decided to get in on the action.

  232. 232.

    Ohio Mom

    @TheTruffle: I did not see the Youngkin tweet. Maybe an aide saw it and had it deleted?

    ETA: oh, he was on a campaign stop when he vocalized that. Just as bad, maybe worse,  but now I have the facts straight.

  235. 235.

    zhena gogolia

    @Ohio Mom:

    Gov. Glenn Youngkin (R-VA) seems to joke about the assassination attempt on Speaker Nancy Pelosi while campaigning for GOP congressional candidate Yesli Vega:“There’s no room for violence anywhere, but we’re going to send her back to be with him in California.” pic.twitter.com/K3D7X8NEcM— The Recount (@therecount) October 28, 2022

  236. 236.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Martin: She went for community band instead (French horn–I’m pretty sure I saw efgoldman introduce them at Faneuil Hall on at least one occasion).

  237. 237.

    Martin

    @schrodingers_cat: Any religious group that wants to deliver sermons via legislation can fuck straight off.

    That’s why we have this religious dichotomy in the US where Christians feel persecuted and non-Christians feel they have too much power – even if there were only 3 Christians left in the US, their religious views would live on in 250 years of legislation that continue to dictate how we are all supposed to live.

    I don’t care how big your congregation is in the US, if you write legislation based on your religious views, people are going to want to persecute you for imposing your beliefs on others.

    If you keep your religion private, nobody except for the folks that feel compelled to impose their beliefs are going to bother you.

  238. 238.

    prostratedragon

    @Matt McIrvin: Glad she found something. (Horn’s not so easy, I think; flute/guitar/recorder here.)
    A huge percentage of popular singers, and not only African-American ones, got started in church choirs. I think many Black churches still have music education programs run by people with serious training.

  239. 239.

    Steve in the ATL

    @geg6:
     

    Methodists consider the Anglican Church to be only a half step further from the torments of hell as the Roman Catholic Church.

    And you probably don’t know want to know what Anglicans think of Methodists!

  240. 240.

    TriassicSands

    Attack on Speaker’s husband sounds like domestic terrorism”

    Naah, it’s just normal political activity. No different than a bunch of peace-loving people storming the Capitol and causing death and mayhem. Except, in this case, it’s only one person “meeting” with another for a civil discussion.

    Someone on the Right will eventually say something like the above. In true sociopathic, lunatic fashion, they will blame the attack on either Pelosi or her husband.

  246. 246.

    zhena gogolia

    I have to say with respect to said commenter — I really don’t see how different his comments are from many voiced here all the time. I really don’t.

  247. 247.

    Alison Rose

    @Steve in the ATL: eversor is exponentially worse than anyone else on this blog when it comes to religion in general, and Christianity in particula

    ETA to zhena – you don’t? They have literally said the entire religion should be eradicated, which to my ears, is saying that all Christians should be. That’s eliminationist and vile. They repeatedly insist that there is zero good in religion, everyone who is religious is as bad as the worst fringe elements of it, and the only way the country and the world can be saved is to essentially ban religion. I have never seen anyone else here say things like that, not with the vehemence and frequency as they do.

  249. 249.

    JanieM

    @prostratedragon:

    A huge percentage of popular singers, and not only African-American ones, got started in church choirs.

    Touched upon in 20 Feet from Stardom, a great documentary about backup singers that I just watched a couple of nights ago.

    *****

    I was raised Catholic, and I was about 13 when Vatican II changed Masses into English and said the congregation should be singing hymns. My piano teacher was also the church organist, and she now needed people to accompany the singing at 6 or 7 masses every Sunday, so she recruited some of her teenage students, gave us a bit elementary training in playing the organ, and turned us loose.

    I enjoyed accompanying, if for no other reason than that I got to sit in the organ loft instead of with my family. But my Baptist mother thought the congregation needed a few centuries of practice before they’d sing as well as the Protestants. ;-)

  251. 251.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Alison Rose: fair enough—and on just about every subject. At least that’s my recollection from before I quit reading his tedious posts

    @J R in WV: yeah, but with brexit it’s not much of a prize anymore!

  257. 257.

    zhena gogolia

    @James E Powell: Let’s just say if you’re a practicing Christian you sometimes don’t feel too welcome here. I’ve learned to ignore it. The commenter in question didn’t really leap out at me as something special.

  258. 258.

    Ruckus

    @Tony Jay:

    I think we are basically saying the same thing.

    We may speak the same language (sort of) but our usage can be considerably different and I think this is one of those times.

  260. 260.

    Ruckus

    @Ksmiami:

    Be better. Some days it is difficult, some days it’s a breeze, but every day remind yourself – Be Fucking Better. It really isn’t a difficult as it sounds. Especially after you do this for a few decades……

  261. 261.

    J R in WV

    @Matt McIrvin:

    …my folks had been American Baptists, the branch that wasn’t pro-slavery in 1861. But it still wasn’t what anyone would call a liberal church.)

    interesting, so was my Wife’s family, American Baptists. Seemed fairly liberal to me, esp. compared to Southern Baptists and the rest of the fundy patriarchal theocrats.​

    ETA: Wife and I are primarily believers in science, not spiritual ghosts in the sky. But we have a good friend who wound up having several graduate degrees in the sciences and then became an Episcopal bishop. Life can be strange…

  262. 262.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat: You’re welcome.

    I always thought it kind of amusing that the UCC, one of the most liberal churches in the country, has a lineage that goes straight back to the Puritans.

  264. 264.

    Ruckus

    @ian:

    We have many in government that sure seem to be enriching themselves, all of a sudden they have increased their wealth several times over their yearly salary, how do they do that if it isn’t accepting money, being paid off, hit the lottery?

  265. 265.

    Matt McIrvin

    @J R in WV: In early 1960s South Dakota, where my parents met, they weren’t so much. But compared to the Southern Baptists, yes. And it seems like a lot of “evangelical left” activity has come out of the American Baptists (I think Fred Clark is one).

  268. 268.

    Ruckus

    @El Muneco:

    That would absolutely be in the top 4 reasons and I hadn’t seen that when I wrote that comment or until I read yours.

    Where was this posted, seen, heard?

    I wonder if the guy actually participated in the take down?

  270. 270.

    Scamp Dog

    @Matt McIrvin: Fred Clark is one of my daily reads. It’s a shame that he’s working at a big box store while people like Chuck Todd and Thomas Friedman are getting paid big bucks for their nonsense.

  271. 271.

    WaterGirl

    @Alison Rose:   @Steve in the ATL:   @eclare:

    I posted this in the comments yesterday:

    eversor, if you’re listening:

    The near-constant religious bigotry has got to stop.

    We don’t tolerate that sort of bashing on Balloon Juice. Not the bashing of women, not the bashing of black people, not the bashing of native people, not the bashing of gay people. The list goes on.

    We have tolerated your religious bigotry for too long, and that ends now. John Cole has given you a 3-day timeout, which will go into effect when I see your next religious comment.

    After the 3-day timeout, you are welcome to continue commenting on Ballon Juice on topics at hand, but the religious bashing has got to stop.

    Bigotry is unacceptable, regardless of the target.

  274. 274.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
      I don’t think that the connection to the Puritans is at all odd. The early Protestants were intellectuals and reformers. They also advocated universal education because they believed that the path to salvation was individual and that studying Scripture was a necessary part of it. The Puritans were also quite sex positive; a lot of what is characterized and Puritanical in that realm is middle class Victorian mores being projected onto older generations.

  276. 276.

    geg6

    @Alison Rose:

    If I was Queen of the World, I would tax churches a lot, a lot, a lot and forbid any religious figures from political activity.  But I’d have no problem with people seeking spiritual community.  I think it’s stupid and a waste of time, but whatever makes people happy.  But I see no need to harp on about it since I’m not the Queen of the World.  If the post topic is about religion, I’ll happily pile on, but bringing it into every discussion isn’t very productive or necessary.

  278. 278.

    ColoradoGuy

    Thanks, WaterGirl.

    My hobbyhorse is malign billionaires wrecking the world, but I’m not talking about elimination, just decreasing their power. They have too much now.

  280. 280.

    prostratedragon

    @Matt McIrvin: I think the Salem witch trials taught the community that they really could gross themselves out. I don’t know why people never seem to learn that that can happen, except the hard way.

  283. 283.

    Ruckus

    @ColoradoGuy:

    They need to be taxed at a reasonable rate. It is unfair to raise the tax rate on payroll/income as those increase and not raise the possibilities of making billions by allowing income from investments to be a much lower rate, on the premise that they are investing in the economy. Because they aren’t doing that, they are investing to make themselves far wealthier. And paying a lower tax rate to do so.

  284. 284.

    Tony Jay

    @Ruckus:

    I agree. I think. It’s so hard to understand you people when you’re all the way over there. 🇺🇸➡️🦻🏻🤷🏼‍♂️

  290. 290.

    kalakal

    I went to an English Public School. They were pretty keen on religion, we had some kind of Anglican service every day, classic Church of England stuff. As far as I can work out it didn’t work, neither myself nor my ex schoolmates showed any religious leanings then or ever since. I love the music and the architecture. To give you an idea of the level of effort the school put into indoctrinating us here’s a pic of the school chapel

    https://images.app.goo.gl/dFhNQSzBg91eM5RR9

    I have relatives who are Church of Scotland. Founded by John Knox they’re Presbyterians who considered Calvin to be a bit wishy washy and not hardline enough. The word dour ( must be in a Scottish accent ) sums them up. There is a breakaway sect, “the Wee Frees” that considers them as backsliders and they are the grimmest bunch I’ve ever met. They are the embodiment of the cliche of Puritans except not as happy-go-lucky

  291. 291.

    MomSense

    This is horrifying.  I am keeping Paul and the whole Pelosi family close in my thoughts.

    I was so busy today and had no idea what was happening in the world until my mom called.  She’s cat sitting for my sister so she’s alone and she was so scared.  Thank god she is not a Fox watcher because she is really vulnerable. I told her she has to stop watching the news for awhile.

  292. 292.

    James E Powell

    I am assuming no person of any prominence has connected this incident with Republican & FOX rhetoric directed at Speaker Pelosi.

  293. 293.

    MomSense

    @James E Powell:

    I am so sick of these motherfucking sociopaths getting away with inciting violence and causing death and misery.  They have goddamned blood in their hands.

  297. 297.

    Ruckus

    @Ksmiami:

    One can be better at war.

    One can be a better human at anything.

    But few of us are without trying.

    We aren’t designed to be better, we are designed to survive.

    We can be better, but it takes effort, it takes learning, it takes understanding.

    I’ve been working at it for 73 yrs, I still have a ways to go.

    Be better.

  298. 298.

    Expatchad

    A former Episcopal monk (yes, really) I immerse myself here every morning upon awakening, and am PERFECTLY CONTENT.
    SO THERE.

  301. 301.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Expatchad: I immerse myself here every morning upon awakening

    A glutton for punishment? Or a quick confirmation that the world is still turning?

  304. 304.

    Ksmiami

    @Ruckus: it’s the age old problem though- how do we retain our democratic ideals in the face of stochastic threats and intolerance. And as Tom Nichols pointed out, these Magas don’t want anything resembling legislative solutions etc, – all they want is to console their own grievances on the backs of their perceived enemies

  306. 306.

    Burr Deming

    @Another Scott: My poor understanding is that actual physical contact is battery. The threatening approach would be assault.

    I’m no lawyer, though. My expertise comes from watching old episodes of Law & Order. And also being too old to argue with.

Comments are closed.