Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

Let’s finish the job.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Cole is on a roll !

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / No Tears and No Hearts Breaking, No Remorse

No Tears and No Hearts Breaking, No Remorse

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This Dan Froomkin piece on just how badly the political press blew their coverage of this election is worth a read, though most of you already know and understand it. In normie world, anyone who fucked up as badly as the US political press might at least take a minute to wonder why and perhaps correct course. Instead, they immediately double down with garbage like this:

That’s the Post. Immediately after the election, the Times hired a third reporter to crawl up Trump’s rectum to see what he had for dinner three days ago. (WTF does “back to basics” mean for Trump anyway? It’s not like he’s returning to lying and grifting — he’s never left.)

At the moment, one of the most fascinating events in recent politics history is unfolding before our eyes: we are headed for an almost-tie in the House, with the possibly winning party under the sway of the political equivalent of a cage full of feral cats. Some races that supposedly competent politicians should have won were lost, and others were won by energetic, interesting newcomers. There are tons of stories to be written about the election and its aftermath. They would contain the same soap opera elements of the Trump stories, so these reporters wouldn’t have to cloud their beautiful minds with tawdry, boring stuff like policy.

Instead, we get the same old, same old tedious coverage of the Presidential horse race with zero soul searching about the horrible wrongness of the last three months of press coverage. Nevermind that idiot fodder like a Trump/DeSantis poll is completely worthless until things settle after this election. Political reporting, for the national press, is nothing but 2024 horserace bullshit.

I’m about as big of a political junkie as you’ll meet, and I don’t even bother reading much of today’s political coverage because it is all the same shit. That’s not to say that there isn’t any decent coverage. For example, this Slate piece covering the gross failure of Sean Patrick Maloney’s campaign is a combination of campaign history and score settling, which is typical of assessments of losing campaigns. It isn’t the acme of political journalism, but at least it isn’t about Trump or Biden in 2024. But it is telling that I’d rather read Ruben Gallego’s Twitter feed than most of the current political coverage.

Reader Interactions

301Comments

  3. 3.

    Quantum man

    I heard Trump is truth socializing about stolen electrons today. Anyone heard about any stolen electrons?

  6. 6.

    Chat Noir

    I’m about as big of a political junkie as you’ll meet, and I don’t even bother reading much of today’s political coverage because it is all the same shit.

    Yeah, same here. I’m so sick of he-who-shall-be-nameless and his ilk. The constant whining and insult schtick is beyond boring.

  7. 7.

    Citizen Alan

    This is why it annoys me so much when people saw “Oh, the Times political coverage is absolutely awful, I agree. But I keep subscribing for the Crossword puzzles and the Food Section.” I mean, Jesus Christ! Is a crossword and yet another review of a Times Square restaurant really enough to justify supporting a paper that is literally complicit in the dismantling of our democracy?!?

    Alexandra Petri is the only thing that justifies the Post not being burned to the ground, but she’s not nearly enough to get me to pay money for even her columns, let alone subsidize McArdle, Thiessen and the rest of those swine.

  8. 8.

    Queen of Lurkers

    The much derided NYTimes as an interesting op-ed today by Michelle Goldberg on Marie Gluesenkamp Perez’s victory in WA-03.

  9. 9.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Quantum man: I heard Trump is truth socializing about stolen electrons today. Anyone heard about any stolen electrons?

    We’re basically asking for stolen electrons until we reform the practice of wearing socks on carpets.

  10. 10.

    Jinchi

    WTF does “back to basics” mean for Trump anyway?

    For TFG, I assume it means drop all the ‘election fraud’ nonsense, and return to pure misogeny and racism.

  12. 12.

    rikyrah

    One of the things I will miss most about Twitter if it goes away, was the ability to confront these MSM clowns as they tried to gaslight us about their complete unprofessionalism during the 2016 campaign and beyond. Their deliberate incompetence when it came to Dolt45, and that we don’t see the change now that 46 is in office.

  15. 15.

    MazeDancer

    Read a report that MTG extracted a promise from Steve Scalise that he would support investigating Nancy Pelosi for her actions on Jan 6 and treatment of the “political prisoners” in exchange for MTG supporting McCarthy.

    That would be the Steve Scalise who stood next to the Speaker as she tried to save his life.

    Everyone of those newly elected “moderate” GOP reps in NY state can kiss their re-election good-bye if they are even photographed with MTG, much less join the Hunter Biden, Dr. Fauci show trials, or the Biden impeachment mockery.

    Read the room, Kevin. America has moved back to normalcy.

  17. 17.

    Jinchi

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​
    Did he make his announcement yet?

    I’m sure all our phones will get emergency alerts the moment he announces. In the meantime we’ll get daily articles titled, TFG expected to announce soon!.

  21. 21.

    Old School

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Did he make his announcement yet?

    You’ll be excited to know the “special announcement” is at 9pm EST tonight.  I’m somewhat scared to see how many networks carry it live.

  23. 23.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Baud: Is it just me, or does Senator-Elect Fetterman look like someone tried to put a business suit on the Washington Monument?

  27. 27.

    Poe Larity

    NEW YORK, Nov 14 (Reuters) – Scion Asset Management’s Michael Burry, known for his timely bets against housing ahead of the 2008 financial crisis, added five new companies to his portfolio in the last quarter including prison operator CoreCivic (CXW.N), filings released on Monday showed.

    Maybe an over-reaction, the Trump family is not that big.

  28. 28.

    citizen dave

    I’m hoping that trump will focus much more on himself this time.  The last two campaigns he  cared way too much about the  hopes and dreams of all Americans.

  30. 30.

    Jinchi

    @Old School: ​
      The real question is whether Mitch will manage to spike his Diet Coke with sleeping pills before the announcement, to keep him quiet until after the Georgia election.

  32. 32.

    MattF

    Yeah. Why, for example, do we never hear about TFG’s Russian connections? Or why all the MAGAs turned anti-Ukraine? Sounds to me like there’s a story there. Instead we get oohing and aahing about DeSantis’ latest nickname. Journalistic malpractice.

  34. 34.

    scav

    Maybe we need a Back To Basics Bingo card fo tonight?  How about a “Riding A Downward Escalator” and a “Live On-Camera Pussy-Grabbing” squares?

  38. 38.

    lowtechcyclist

    I’ve probably mentioned this before, but back in 2006 I was still subscribing to the dead-trees WaPo. That midterm, of course, the Dems flipped something like 30 House seats and 6 Senate seats to take control of both chambers. So that Sunday, I was looking forward to an Outlook section (the WaPo Sunday opinion/commentary section) with lots of coverage of what that meant, and what the Dems would try to do with their new Congressional majorities.

    Instead, the front page of the Outlook section, five days after the midterm, was all about Hillary v. Obama. The midterms were already old news, and they were jumping ahead to the 2008 primaries.

    So here and now, when they’re already jumping forward to “should Biden run in 2024, or is he too old?” before we even know for sure who’s in control of the House next year, it depresses me but doesn’t surprise me. Worthless dickheads.

  39. 39.

    CaseyL

    In one of John M. Ford’s excellent Star Trek novels (I am not kidding; you must read them) there is a Klingon embassy mission to the Federation, and one of the Klingons says of Earth’s news channels: “That was news? I thought it was an indoctrination channel for children.”

    This was, mind you, about 20+ years ago, and I have never ever forgotten that line.  Even more true now than it was then.

  40. 40.

    piratedan

    @Jinchi: I took that to mean that he’ll sexually assault Katy Tur and Stephanie Ruhle on live TV and use his secret service team to assist him.

     

    Then CNN will opine that they had it coming by provoking him while Laura Ingraham will wistfully wish that she had been involved.

    seems to be the right of amount of ewwwww….. for everyone.

  43. 43.

    Immanentize

    Mistermix,

    This is a question I keep asking about New York (which I will be returning to in a year or so into Central NY).

    Can the NY legislature pass a new redistricting plan right now? It is certainly U.S. constitutionally possible, but is it in NY?

    Also, do you think Conole will run again? If so, I would like to support him, maybe.

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    @rikyrah:

    Their deliberate incompetence when it came to Dolt45, and that we don’t see the change now that 46 is in office.

    It isn’t incompetence.  They are doing what their editors and publishers are telling them to do.  The problem starts at the top, and we won’t get better news media as long as it is owned and run by a bunch of oligarchs who actively cheer for the oligarch party.

  52. 52.

    Shalimar

    Do we get bonus Jackel points for knowing the lyric is from Haitian Divorce

    edit: I see Tractarian guessed first.

  53. 53.

    pacem appellant

    @lowtechcyclist: NYT needs to be burned to the ground (obviously metaphorically). I was OK with the WaPo for a while, but I ended my sub. They’re gunning to be just as bad as the NYT at this point.

    L.A. Times is my paper of record now. And Balloon Juice.

  54. 54.

    frosty

    @Roger Moore: I see this type of statement from a lot of commenters; that the reporters and opinion writers fall in line and write what they’re told to. Is there any proof? Quotes from ex-reporters who got out of the business? Op-Ed’s who were fired for not toeing the line? Or is it just speculation because of who we know the owners are? And what we suspect are their motives?

  55. 55.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @Immanentize: My understanding is that redistricting happens every 10 years, we shot our shot, and it’s done until the next census.

    Even though I’m right next door to NY-22 I haven’t followed it closely.  Conole seems to have run a good race, but the Syracuse district is the white whale of upstate NY districts.  The demographics and registration make it look like it should be a D district but it never flips, mostly due to the R in the race not being a firebreather.  I would hold off until Conole decides to announce again, but he raised $2.6 million to Williams $750K, and he didn’t win.  So he can raise money, but like the rest of New York State, he (and the rest of the party) couldn’t turn out voters.  When we start getting some more granular reporting on these districts, I’m sure what we’ll see is that the urban parts of the district (Syracuse) did not turn out anywhere near 2020 levels, and therefore the Democrat lost.

  59. 59.

    Ken

    @$8 blue check mistermix: Actually the Supreme Court ruled, a couple of decades ago, that states could redistrict at any time. Well, that Texas could redistrict because the Republicans wanted to, but I’m sure the principle will be applied uniformly.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    “Breaking With The President – The Mike Pence Interview”

    They take themselves so incredibly seriously. Mike Pence wrote a book which he is peddling. Couldn’t people just read that crap rather than having the same lines spoon fed to them?

  63. 63.

    Shalimar

    @lowtechcyclist: I predict that both parties will be in control of the House at different points next year.  There will be at least 8 members who vacate their seats for different reasons.

  64. 64.

    MattF

    @frosty: I think people underestimate the degree to which journalists will cultivate their careers by pleasing their bosses. Journalism is a job, and everyone working on every newspaper has observed what happens to people who don’t take the hint about how politics ‘should’ be covered in their particular corner of the media world.

  65. 65.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Roger Moore: 100% If we owned those papers, you better believe McMegan would out of a job and reporters would be interviewing ‘ordinary voters’ in the suburbs and cities.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    So according to these ridiculous people, no one is interested in January 6th or the attempted coup, but everyone is interested in Mike Pence recounting Breaking With The President (da-DUM!) on January 6th?

    Is it important or not? And why are they still covering Donald Trump like he’s President?

  67. 67.

    pacem appellant

    @Qrop Non Sequitur: No disagreement here. But they won’t. I don’t understand the incentive structure of the NYT, but that Miller, Bannett, and Haberman (in that order) have all failed spectacularly without any introspection can only mean that privilege is rewarded, and “being right” is a death sentence. (Atrios and Parker Molloy tenaciously mock the NYT for this)

  68. 68.

    Roger Moore

    @Major Major Major Major: ​
     

    At least it’s better than the “which Dem should run in 2024?” game.

    They’re doing that, too. In addition to claiming Biden is too old, they’re also completely dismissing Harris. I can’t white put my finger on why they’re so eager to get rid of her.

  69. 69.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Kay: why are they still covering Donald Trump like he’s President?

    Somehow he’s deemed more interesting than the actual President. I don’t personally understand, I can barely tolerate listening to Trump.

  70. 70.

    Immanentize

    @$8 blue check mistermix:

    My understanding is that redistricting happens every 10 years, we shot our shot, and it’s done until the next census.

    That is the common wisdom, but it doesn’t have to be that way. Tom DeLay re-districted Texas just three years after the first post-census map to start Republican gerrymandering. People got hot and bothered for a bit, but the federal courts said that was just fine.

    Also, if the Supreme Court rules only the legislatures can draw maps this term, will NY go back to the old legislative maps replaced by the Trumoy Court? I will try to find some answers about this….

    And thank you for the 22nd info. I am not sure the University (Syracuse) and college students Oneonta, etc.) got enough attention. But that would have required a big pro-abortion message?

  71. 71.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: I saw one of Pence’s interviews.  It was a joke.  It has been advertised as “Pence finally says what he thinks and comes out swinging at Trump.”  Bullshit.  He said the same milquetoast bullshit he has been saying since January 6th.  Came out swinging with a feather duster.

  72. 72.

    MisterForkbeard

    @MazeDancer: I’d thought that the price of MTG’s support for Kevin McCarthy is that McCarthy has already vowed to kick Ilhan Omar, Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell off all their committees for ‘reasons’. Mostly revenge.

    It hadn’t been explicitly attached to MTG’s support, but she came out in support of McCarthy just after this was said.

  74. 74.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @pacem appellant: I don’t know Miller or Bannett, but Haberman is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace is the fact that the FTFNYT thought Trump needed a professional turd polisher.

  75. 75.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Kay: The entire “break” is really sad, too. “Our administration didn’t end positively” and “Trump sorta encouraged the protestors but had no idea they’d do the bad things which weren’t that bad!”

    Yeah. That’s pretty much it.

  76. 76.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: Meanwhile, the most fascinating trial of Jan. 6 defendant Oath Keepers is going in every day. Where is Court TV? Breathless coverage? While the defendants blatantly lie and get crushed on cross?

  77. 77.

    Kay

    Voters just told them that voters are interested in the overturning of Roe and the repercussions of Dobbs and STILL there is little to no substantive national coverage of what has happened to medical care and women under this new US legal scheme.

    This is not a real market. Something’s wrong with it. It’s not responsive to prospective readers or viewers.

    Ignoring Dobbs made some sense when they were all proclaiming that no one gave a shit about womens health or rights but since voters just showed them that was bullshit one would think they could cover the issue. Nope. We’re not getting that. They have decided not to offer it.

  78. 78.

    Barney

    While I was looking, it seems the Washington Post has dropped the “back to basics” headline from its front page – it’s now “Trump campaign will be leaner for 2024 White House bid, sources say”. The actual article had nothing about “basic” in it.

    It is an incredibly boring list of people expected to get their salaries over the next couple of years from the Trump grift machine. It does not belong on the WP front page at all; it’s the worst kind of “inside politics” BS. I would guess the idea is to fluff the people mentioned in it so that they’ll leak juicy gossip to the article authors.

  81. 81.

    scav

    @frosty: There are also straight out articles on same, such as Murdoch tells Trump he will not back fresh White House bid – report

    “We have been clear with Donald. There have been conversations between them during which Rupert made it clear to Donald that we cannot back another run for the White House,” a senior News Corp source told the i newspaper.

    Lachlan Murdoch, the heir apparent and eldest son, who co-chairs News Corp and runs the parent company of Fox News, has reportedly told DeSantis that the group would back him if he ran in the next election. “Lachlan has been keen on Ron for some time,” said the i’s source. “He’s viewed within the organisation as a sanitised version of Donald.”

    So I guess it’s just a case of how many strong clues one needs.

  84. 84.

    Eolirin

    @Immanentize: I’m not sure that the legislature will do it, even if they can do it, but I guess we’ll see? Honestly I’m not sure they need to. Even with the districts like they are, I think we can pick up most of those close seats in a presidential cycle, especially if the Rs run Trump or another absolutely shit candidate.

  85. 85.

    Gin & Tonic

    Unconfirmed, but potentially serious – a Russian cruise missile appears to have overshot a target in western Ukraine, and impacted in Poland, a NATO state. Looking out for reaction from Warsaw… https://t.co/Kd5EJlXXj3
    — Euan MacDonald (@Euan_MacDonald) November 15, 2022

    Premier @MorawieckiM zwołał w trybie pilnym Komitet Rady Ministrów do spraw Bezpieczeństwa Narodowego i spraw Obronnych.
    — Piotr Müller (@PiotrMuller) November 15, 2022

    The second Tweet refers to an urgent meeting of the Committee of the Council of Ministers for National Security and Defense Affairs.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    @Shalimar:

    Because he’s running for President! It has nothing to do with us. This is a transaction between Mike Pence and political media- they both benefit. Us? Nah. We get shit out of it.

    I just want to be clear on the rules here. January 6th doesn’t matter at all when it shows Republicans in a bad light BUT when it can be used to promote Mike Pence’s phony sanctimony it’s of vital interest to the public?

  87. 87.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: That is because “the market” for them is white, mostly male people the media folks meet at dinners, clubs, and invitation only meet and greets in NY, DC, and LA.. Especially media owners.

  88. 88.

    Nelle

    @MattF: As noted here before, my daughter was a NYTimes stringer who was asked to go talk to Trump voters over and over.  The one time she was asked to talk to Democrats was to find women who were disappointed with Biden less than a year into his term.  She not only quit the NYT, but she left journalism entirely.

  89. 89.

    StringOnAStick

    I’ve posted this before but too late in a thread.  The thing we are going to have to fight is the Biden Is Too Old for 2024 line of attack.  The MSM is already in it, RW media has been laying that groundwork since Biden won.  What got me recently was being with a bunch of new friends who are all hard core D’s as we were celebrating the election wins, and every single one said Biden is too old and “Kamala is a huge disappointment, I had high hopes, she’s been useless, incoherent when she speaks” .  It really deflated me and made me wonder if BJ is my bubble and I need to get out more.  I did rally and state that I will vote for whoever black women pick because they are the core workers of the D party, and asked them “if Biden is the nominee, will you vote for him even if you think he’s too old?” and they all immediately said they would, with no question.

    That’s the hill we have climb, so toss Ageism onto the pile of all the other isms we have to fight.

  90. 90.

    Falling Diphthong

    Well, if a group of seasoned political professionals have looked at the outcome of the latest elections, and concluded that he should shut up about the fake stolen election and all the other grievances he’s amassed in the last 2 years, I’m sure Trump will manage to stay on message.

  91. 91.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @scav: Unclear is why any “news” organization should support any candidates or, if they do, why that shouldn’t be explicitly referenced in any discussion they have involving candidates.

  94. 94.

    AJ of the Mustard Search and Rescue Team

    Those links were excellent reading, ty Mistermix

    Good to know that Maloney was “so gracious” that his R opponent’s press sec was hesitant to tell the truth about how absent he was.

  96. 96.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I don’t want to read their stale, after-the-fact horserace coverage of Dobbs. They got the politics wrong. They blew horserace coverage. A day late and a dollar short, as usual.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    @Eolirin: That article Mister Mix linked to up top is really good about how Maloney shivving Mondaire Jones cost him his own seat in a Dem +10 District near NYC. The party needs a reckoning. Mostly to stop the powerful “moderates” from hippy punching the more successful progressives. This makes me worry about Hochul a bit. And please get rid of Adams. He is the worst possible Dem messenger.

  98. 98.

    Layer8Problem

    @Gin & Tonic:  “Unconfirmed, but potentially serious – a Russian cruise missile appears to have overshot a target in western Ukraine, and impacted in Poland, a NATO state.”

    If true, that would certainly be expected to provoke some kind of response; measured, proportional, but beyond a sternly-written letter at least.

  100. 100.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    That article Mister Mix linked to up top is really good about how Maloney shivving Mondaire Jones cost him his own seat in a Dem +10 District near NYC.

    I don’t know the details and don’t care that much, but this is a point of controversy here.

  102. 102.

    StringOnAStick

    @Gin & Tonic: Um, this is a very big deal.  I don’t think Russia would do that accidentally though I’m sure they will claim it was. I hope no one was injured.

  103. 103.

    Danielx

    @Kay:

    And why are they still covering Donald Trump like he’s President?

    Possibly out of pity for poor Donald, who needs attention as most people need oxygen and who would rather be dead than irrelevant.

  104. 104.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: Maybe it’s a case study in Pence’s cravenness. Like Doug’s pitchbot thing where he said ‘Pres. Trump tried to murder me on Jan 6th and here’s why I will vote for him in 2024’.

  106. 106.

    Immanentize

    @StringOnAStick:

    The MSM is already in it, RW media has been laying that groundwork since Biden won.

    The Bernie-adjacent “left” was the first and most powerful voice regarding Biden being senile. Horseshoe theory turns circle.

  109. 109.

    Layer8Problem

    @topclimber:  Yeah, he’s slippery, but if we figure his position and his direction and his speed, precisely, we can’t miss!  We’re gold!  Or maybe copper or silver.

  110. 110.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: The opinion side of the house is completely driven by the paper’s paymasters (who usually happen to be Republican millionaires).

    Insert Upton Sinclair quote here.

  111. 111.

    J R in WV

    @frosty: ​
     

    …reporters and opinion writers fall in line and write what they’re told to. Is there any proof?

    No proof, but obviously, writers for any media get hired and promoted and great assignments from senior media executives depending upon how those senior executives feel about their existing work product.

    If one doesn’t perform according to management’s wishes, one gets shitty assignments and no promotions or raises.

  115. 115.

    Matt McIrvin

    @StringOnAStick: A lot of Democrats outside our bubble seem to want to want Biden to step aside voluntarily and to nominate Pete Buttigieg as the new party leader. I am skeptical.

  118. 118.

    MisterDancer

    @Kay: Giant people wear suits every day :)

    Yep. Both me and my one-back boss are Big guys and we had to put on the suit, on occasion. Fun times!

    I will say Fetterman looks great for the person he is; he’s clearly a fella who ain’t puttin’ on no airs, as they used to say. Could a tailor tighten up that look? Sure. Does he need it to be effective as a communicator to his constituents, and the Democratic message?

    Nope.

  119. 119.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    I don’t know.  When it comes up here, people like Geminid point out that Maloney lived in the district he ran in, and I have not seen anyone explain what Maloney did that was improper (nor have I looked for an explanation).

    Given the mob mentality that falsely went after Hillary for winning the 2016 primary, if I don’t see a persuasive explanation, I automatically assume that allegations of Dem wrongdoing are unfounded.

  121. 121.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I have no idea what Putin is thinking.

    I wish someone did.

    Ok, better question — how do you think Poland might react? NATO? Orban?
    (Not really that serious about Orban)

    For this to happen during the G-20 seems, uh, meaningful.

  122. 122.

    MazeDancer

    @Immanentize: Said the same thing on this very site a while back and got some nasty trashing. Mean. Don’t like to fight on BJ. Disagree is good. Fight, no.

    Been saying it ever since SPM did the dirty. It was wrong and stupid.

    He should have run in my district. Northern Dutchess/Columbia/Ulster/Greene. Was ready to hold my nose and vote for him. Happy to have voted for Pat Ryan. But not at the expense of the House.

    SPM is not IS a greedy guy. Always has been.

  123. 123.

    cain

    Until they pay a price nothing will change. All of this is about grabbing eyeballs because news as it should be presented is boring. Trump is a chaos actor and because we all react so strongly to him – any article about him will be shared and re-shared. He’s a freakshow.

    The first thing we need to do at least starting in this blog is not post any links that give clicks. Across the Democratic political ecosystem. Instead, we’ll do what we will do is use different terms to refer to Trump but also the articles.

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    @Qrop Non Sequitur:

    The thing that’s really embarrassing about Haberman is that she’s a double nepotism hire.  Her dad worked at NYT, which is how she got hired there, and her mom worked as a PR flack at the firm Trump used, which is why she got put on the Trump beat.  Somehow, the part about her mom working for Trump is seen as a nothingburger that readers don’t need to be reminded of.  It shows NYT’s ethics.  Readers are mushrooms to be kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

  125. 125.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: He only lived in that district after the court ordered redistricting. Maloney’s new district was less than a third of his old district  The district he won in previously was left to another Dem who actually won.

    Still, how does a Democrat lose a d+10 District?

  126. 126.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Baud: I have not seen anyone explain what Maloney did that was improper

    There exists a strain of thought that suggests there’s nothing worse a Democrat can do than contest a primary.

  127. 127.

    Baud

    @Immanentize:

    He only lived in that district after the court ordered redistricting.

    Unless he moved into the new district, the result of redistricting was not his fault, and there is no wrongdoing.

    Still, how does a Democrat lose a d+10 District?

    Legitimate criticism about the campaign, but not a basis for allegations of wrongdoing.

  128. 128.

    Mike in NC

    Henry Olsen — one of the Washington Post’s resident wingnut pundits — predicted Republicans would gain at least 40 seats in the US House and maybe 4-5 in the Senate. These clowns are so predictable, and they never apologize for how wrong they are.

  132. 132.

    Immanentize

    @Qrop Non Sequitur: Maloney didn’t contest against Jones. After redistricting, Maloney – the head of the DCCC! – announced he was running in that district, where Jones had a solid following and support in 2/3 of the “new” district. Jones actually was the team player and tried his hand in another district where he came in 3d. I am sure Maloney thought it would be a cake walk and seems to have run his campaign that way.

    Well, as Nixon said, we don’t have Maloney to kick around anymore.

  133. 133.

    MazeDancer

    @Baud:

    Mondaire Jones also lived in the district. But SPM didn’t care. He just dumped him.

    How is this right? A progressive Black man? Isn’t NY supposed to be a blue state?

    SPM could have done his job as the guy in charge of winning the House, left Jones intact, and run in an open district. Which also included much of his old district. And me.

    But he wouldn’t even try. He just said get lost Mondaire.

    And then proceeded to run a terrible campaign. As did Hochul.

    Every article I’ve read says the same thing: SPM didn’t show up. Mondaire Jones would have worked his ass off.

    SPM’s opponent worked 6 or 7 events a day for the entire campaign. SPM did not.

    Am I angry? You betcha. Could that be clouding my judgement? Possibly.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    @MazeDancer: I don’t understand what you’re saying. If you are mad that SPM didn’t campaign hard enough, completely legitimate.  But that doesn’t explain how he engaged in wrongdoing or somehow wronged Jones.

  137. 137.

    J R in WV

    @MazeDancer:

    Been saying it ever since SPM did the dirty. It was wrong and stupid.

    Not to be hostile, but who the hell is SPM? How are people not from upstate NY to know what we’re talking about now?

  138. 138.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Immanentize:

    I know it isn’t likely to happen but one of the things I hope the lame duck session accomplishes is DC statehood (increasing the size of the Senate) and a larger US House.

    Manchin has been an obstacle to DC statehood, but West Virginia lost a seat in reapportionment and Montana gained one. Based on the Montana population to congressional representatives ratio, about 700,000 people in WV have lost representation in the US House. Coincidentally, 700,000 people in Washington DC are denied representation in both the House and Senate. Unlikely, but maybe a package deal for fair representation for WV and DC is something that he could accept. Applying the MT representation formula, NY would have 37 seats.

    The reason the House has 435 seats is that was the number needed for no state to lose a seat in the House, even Iowa, which had lost population. Now 435 results in states losing seats even if they haven’t lost population. NY’s population increased by 700k, Montana’s by 90k, and MT got one more seat because of the representation formula biased towards smaller states.

    California’s population increased not only by more than Montana’s increase, but by more than the entire population of Montana, and yet MT gets a 2 seat and CA loses 1.

    The size of the House is small in comparison to other countries.

    The original intent of the founders was that the House increase in size as population increased.

  140. 140.

    Roger Moore

    @StringOnAStick:

    The thing we are going to have to fight is the Biden Is Too Old for 2024 line of attack.

    Which is especially infuriating because Trump is all of 3 years younger than Biden.  Trump is obviously showing much worse signs of aging, but the same people who say Biden is too old will happily ignore Trump’s age.

  142. 142.

    Immanentize

    @MazeDancer:  Schumer did quite a bit of campaigning around the State. He is a good old time pol. Brings in the bacon, goes to remind people he did. I don’t think I ever saw Hochul’s name attached to the Micron deal near Syracuse, even though both Schumer and Biden were pointing to it as a huge Dem win.

  143. 143.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: Yeah, I kind of figured that he sent someone out and said “bring me back the biggest suit you can find”.

    That’s okay.  How he looks in a suit doesn’t matter, it’s what he can do as a senator.

  146. 146.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: I thought the requirement was at least every 10 years, on the multiple-of-ten year, but I thought it was possible to redistrict more than that.

    One of our lawyers should look into that. :-)

  147. 147.

    Soprano2

    @MazeDancer: Read the room, Kevin. America has moved back to normalcy.

    He can’t read the room because he can’t see it. All he can see is what’s on Fox News and right wing talk radio, and all they want is revenge investigations and impeachments.

  151. 151.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Roger Moore:

    Which is especially infuriating because Trump is all of 3 years younger than Biden. Trump is obviously showing much worse signs of aging, but the same people who say Biden is too old will happily ignore Trump’s age.

    I do think Biden is… not of an ideal vintage. No disrespect to my father, who is very smart and capable, but he’s Biden’s age, he has the same number of stumbles, and you know what, he shouldn’t be running the country.

    BUT, you go to war with the army you have, so.

  152. 152.

    Immanentize

    @MazeDancer:  Schumer did quite a bit of campaigning around the State. He is a good old time pol. Brings in the bacon, goes to remind people he did. I don’t think I ever saw Hochul’s name attached to the Micron deal near Syracuse, even though both Schumer and Biden were pointing to it as a huge Dem win.

  153. 153.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    @NeenerNeener:

    Thanks to the small margins, I’m less certain they will have the votes for impeachment.  They can go through the committee process though. And if they do have the votes, the Senate can swat it down since the Dems are in control.

  155. 155.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl: that is exactly right — but states can have laws that allow redistricting only once every ten years. I’m gonna try to figure out NY law, hopefully by calling a friend in NY at Cardozo Law.

  156. 156.

    MazeDancer

    @J R in WV:

    Sorry to go regional on you. SPM= Sean Patrick Maloney.

    @Baud:

    We may disagree on this. Which is fine. But, if SPM is in charge of getting the entire House back, but puts his own election ahead of that, by screwing over Mr. Jones, to me, that feels wrong.

    You may feel booting Mr. Jones out of his district isn’t “screwing over”. I do. We should do better in NY.

    Mr. Jones had no other district in which he could run. Even though he tried. But that was an over-crowded district.

    SPM could have run in the open seat – open – where half his old district was moved. Then both he and Mr. Jones could have a shot.

    But SPM thought that might be too hard.

    If he wouldn’t work for it, yes, it would have been hard.

  158. 158.

    karen marie

    @rikyrah:   You’re doing them favors by giving them attention.  They don’t care that it’s negative attention.  The more “interactions” they get, the happier their employers are.  If you really want to hurt them, starve them of attention.

    I’m really liking Mastodon so much more than twitter.  I find all kinds of interesting things on Mastodon — and plenty of politics — but without having a lot of “you’re going to be so mad about this!” or “X really showed them!” shoved in my face.   The algorithm at twitter is so obvious when you have a place that doesn’t have it to compare it to.

    Since I’ve been on Mastodon, I’ve been on twitter less and less.  Today about 15 minutes was all I could stand.

  160. 160.

    Baud

    @MazeDancer:

    You may feel booting Mr. Jones out of his district isn’t “screwing over”. I do.

    I don’t know what booting means.  Everyone has the right to compete in the primary.  If Jones lost to SPM, or didn’t want to compete, that’s on him. And Maloney had no special obligation to find a different district either.  I don’t put any moral obligation on Maloney or any other Dem to follow some else’s strategic plan on how best to divvy up candidates and districts.  I may feel differently if Maloney somehow inserted himself into a different district, but it sounds like that’s not what happened.

  161. 161.

    karen marie

    @Jinchi:  Speaking of announcements, I’m surprised to have not seen anything about the guest list for Tiffany’s wedding.  Granted, I haven’t actively looked but I’d have thought that would be ripe fodder for gossip.

    I’d also like to know whether there was any entertainment beyond a music stream curated by the bride and groom.  Trump is obviously too cheap (and too broke) to put out the amount of $$$ necessary to hire a name musician.  Did someone volunteer?

    Snickering people over here at my house want to know!

  163. 163.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    You all assuming Trump is going to announce his bid. My bet is it will be some bullshit about him forming an exploratory committee, or something.  Basically, anything to get him attention.

  166. 166.

    Baud

    Fetterman should host a reality show called “Dressing John Fetterman” where tailors compete to see how can make the best suit for him.

  167. 167.

    Citizen Alan

    @BlueGuitarist: Agree 100%. This would also have the benefit of curing much of the problems inherent in the Electoral College by adding additional EVs to the larger states.

  171. 171.

    Eolirin

    @Immanentize: I don’t live in the city, I have no say on Adams. And I wouldn’t consider Hochul to be all that much of a hippy punching moderate, that was Cuomo, unless you mean the party will be after her. Which, yeah maybe.

    But I’m extremely skeptical that Jones would have done better. He lost the primary and we did have a red wave election in upstate and long island, it just didn’t penetrate the city so we still won state wide. I suspect Jones does even worse.

  173. 173.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:  I think LeBron James or some of the basketballers/athletes should take him in hand and get him some tips on tailoring.

    They look sharp.  He can too.  At least, he can get a suit that fits and does not call attention to him.  At 6’9, he already gets that.

  176. 176.

    Mike

    My only disagreement is with the description of Republicans as feral cats. I prefer the analogy of a bunch of chimpanzees slinging feces around their enclosure.

  178. 178.

    Eolirin

    @MazeDancer: That open district being NY-18 which is the only district we won? Jones would have lost NY-17 and we wouldn’t have Pat Ryan in the house. We gain nothing.

  179. 179.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud:

    i DO think Maloney had an obligation as the guy who was supposed to be winning all DEM House seats – he should have done what was best for the team, not best for himself.

    This wasn’t just two guys who both wanted to run in the same district.

  186. 186.

    Immanentize

    @WaterGirl: It could have been my phone? It was like: write write write, then there was a little blip, then gone. Like an odd auto refresh happened.

  187. 187.

    Roger Moore

    @MisterDancer:

    Could a tailor tighten up that look? Sure. Does he need it to be effective as a communicator to his constituents, and the Democratic message?

    I would say having it not tidied up is part of his image.  He wants to look like a guy who’s uncomfortable wearing a suit but will do it because it’s part of his job.  The last thing he wants to look like is someone who wears a suit every day and thinks its worth spending a bunch of money on a tailor to make it perfect.

  188. 188.

    Major Major Major Major

    @karen marie: using mastodon regularly has really made me appreciate how much the quote-tweet feature changed the twitter experience. All it’s used for is “look at this idiot” or “I agree but want points for doing so”. Probably degraded my sanity by ten to twenty percent!

  190. 190.

    Ruckus

    $8 blue check mistermix

    “I’m about as big of a political junkie as you’ll meet, and I don’t even bother reading much of today’s political coverage because it is all the same shit.”

    I read here so I don’t have to read news crap. I live in LA county, along with almost 10 million other people and the news is mostly traffic accidents, cop chases, and the political bullshit you are talking about. So I don’t bother. Decades ago the news was an hour a day and now it’s not 3 networks it’s dozens of channels 24 hrs a day mostly owned, like the major print media, by a relatively few rich people who seem to like money more than anything else and also seem to think that even their shit smells like money and therefore we should all believe every word they pay to have spoken to us, and to kiss their asses. There are a lot more “trumps” in this world (although some of them aren’t quite as stupid, or at least quite as openly stupid as his majesty.)

  191. 191.

    BlueGuitarist

    @MazeDancer:

    Also Elie Mystal had an article in the Nation about how the redistricting mess was Andrew Cuomo’s fault for having appointed the Republicans and Conservative majority on the Court of Appeals that took over redistricting and put several Democrats into the same district as other Dems.

    Also Dave Wasserman mentioned that Andy Levin giving up his district to lose the primary to Haley Stevens in Michigan 10, 11 probably cost Democrats a seat since Levin would probably have won in MI-10 given the narrow margin.

    But in addition to what Democrats did wrong, important to mention that Republicans in state legislatures and the Supreme Court and DeSantis blatantly disregarded the Constitution (15A) and the law (Voting Rights Act) to steal more seats than the margin.

  192. 192.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Roger Moore:

    Richard M. Nixon @dick_nixon 2h

    Normally I’d send him my tailor’s card. But I am not going to do that. He genuinely doesn’t like wearing a suit, and that’s part of what sells. It’s not like Jordan, with that affected no jacket nonsense. Fetterman looks like your uncle at the wedding. That’s the point.

  194. 194.

    Immanentize

    @Eolirin: Jones lost a primary in a district he neither lived in nor had he run in before. He did not lose a primary against Maloney. Not surprising. Whether he would have lost in his old district is an unknowable now. But redistricting had a large impact on the whole state.

    That and Adam’s fierce support of the chief Republican talking point that crime was out of control. Some folks say his over the top crime talk helped Republicans in the New Jersey NYC metro area as well. Well, onward.

  195. 195.

    BC in Illinois

    The media . . . corrupt? . . . incompetent?  . . . stupid?  How about “trendy” ?

    trend·y   /ˈtrendē/
    adjective

         very fashionable or up to date.

         “I enjoyed being able to go out and buy trendy clothes”

    noun

         a person who is very fashionable or up to date.

         “Taiwan’s well-heeled young trendies”

    This was the conclusion I came to in 1980, when Ronald Reagan would stand in front of a microphone and spout gibberish, when he would hold a press conference and his staff would spend the next few hours correcting his errors . . . and the press would report on “The Great Communicator.”

    Were the media corrupt? incompetent? stupid?  Yeah, maybe, but I think that they knew that the trend was, that other people had been talking about how “likable” and “great communicator” he was. If you said anything different, you weren’t up-to-date. You weren’t with it. You weren’t trendy.

  196. 196.

    Eolirin

    @Immanentize: Schumer’s campaigning did literally nothing for him, he won with pretty much the exact same margin as the other male statewide race. The two women with races won with the same margin too. This was all about Zeldin vs Hochul and it dominated the down ticket races, imo.

  198. 198.

    Eolirin

    @Immanentize: Sure, but then calling NY-17 a D+10 district is also deeply disengenuous, since it’s not the same NY-17 and we really should disregard an article that is sniping on the basis of a failed candidate’s campaign having a grudge too, especially when they refer to it that way.

    Maloney used to be my rep. He was more or less invincible under the old maps. It doesn’t surprise me that he doesn’t know how to fight anymore, he hasn’t had to for almost a decade. But if he’s gonna lose, I’m still not putting my money on a Dem holding the seat.

  199. 199.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: Reports here from district residents were that Maloney was complacent and did not campaign hard enough. I was reminded of how Terry McAuliffe ran in my state last year.

    But I think that Republicans won four other New York congressional districts that Biden carried, so this was not just a Maloney problem.

  200. 200.

    MisterDancer

    @Roger Moore: I would say having it not tidied up is part of his image.

    Oh, I know that’s possible. That said,  I don’t want to assume too much about his (and his team’s) intentions without knowing more about Fetterman than I do.

    For example: One of the smartest people I’ve ever worked with showed up to the same meetings me and my ex-boss did in suits, in rumpled button downs and slacks/jeans. And that was 100% him, come rain or shine.

  201. 201.

    Roger Moore

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Quote tweeting is the only way to respond to a tweet when the original poster restricted who is allowed to reply.  It’s also often used as a way of leading people to a thread you want people to see; I think it’s a better way of doing that than retweeting each post in the threat.

  202. 202.

    Eolirin

    @Geminid: Yeah, the Dems were complacent state wide. Things have not been competitive here for a long time. This is the best result Republicans have had in the Gov margins since Pataki. Every other election has been a blow out.

  203. 203.

    JoyceH

    @StringOnAStick:

    Um, this is a very big deal. I don’t think Russia would do that accidentally though I’m sure they will claim it was.

    Geez, can’t we please, by NOW, get over this concept of Putin as the wily spymaster genius playing eleven dimensional chess, when every move any Russian makes anywhere in the world is obviously just another of the omniscient KGB Machiavelli’s subtly brilliant chess moves? Holy moly, come ON!

    Like, what? He PLANNED on an enormous chunk of his army, and that the most trained and battle-ready part, to be slaughtered in an embarrassing debacle in a smaller and less militarized country? He PLANNED to have to do this half-assed, no, not even quarter-assed callup of untrained drunks to fling into battle to be killed within days, and have contingents of Russian women storming to the RU/UK border demanding their husbands back? When are we going to see that final masterstroke where we all slap our foreheads and exclaim in admiration, “Oh, NOW I get it!”?

  204. 204.

    Major Major Major Major

    @BlueGuitarist:

    Also Elie Mystal had an article in the Nation about how the redistricting mess was Andrew Cuomo’s fault for having appointed the Republicans and Conservative majority on the Court of Appeals that took over redistricting and put several Democrats into the same district as other Dems.

    NY legislature passed a gerrymander after the poorly-designed bipartisan redistricting commission deadlocked. A lower court found this to be a process violation and asked them to draw new maps or the task would go to a court-appointed expert. They declined. The state’s highest court then found the gerrymander unconstitutionally unfair and told a lower court to draw new maps.

    Dems played gerrymandering brinksmanship and lost, knowing full well what the laws said.

  205. 205.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Roger Moore: Quote tweeting predated restricted replies by years. When I see it, it’s about 45% “look at this idiot” showing me an idiot I’d otherwise not have seen; 45% “read this thread I totally agree with” showing me the beginning of a thread I’d probably otherwise have seen as a RT; and 10% meaningful context. That 10% bonus is just not worth that 45% hit to my sanity.

  206. 206.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Wrondoing?  No.  Putting his personal preferences / gain over the what gave the best shot at winning more house seats?  I definitely think that’s not what the guy in charge of winning House seats shouting’s have done, and I definitely understand why people are pissed.

  207. 207.

    TinRoofRusted

    @Immanentize: This!  I live in Rockland county and was very angry about how Mondaire was treated. I did vote for SPM but not enthusiastically. Would Mondaire have won?  Personally I think so but at this point it is just a theoretical question. But I do know Mondaire was an excellent Rep and he was very popular.

  208. 208.

    Immanentize

    Here is an interesting thing happening right now, instead of trying to figure out why NY gave the House to the Republicans:

    Rick Scott announces challenge to Mitch McConnell for Minority leader position.

    ETA BETTY CRACKER ALERT!

  209. 209.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Immanentize: The Red Wave will be blood on the Senate floor

    Eta: Id much rather have Scott stealing from the Republican Party than McConnell systematically disenfranchising voters

  211. 211.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @MisterDancer: I’m not gonna knock Fetterman on not being a latter-day Beau Brummel. The message I take from his suit is “I’m almost as large as the Washington Monument and I’m not made of money.”

  212. 212.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Immanentize: It took me way longer than it should have for me to reconcile those two cultural references. My brain is getting old. Maybe more clouded…

  213. 213.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: Personally, I’d love to see Fetterman in sweats on the Senate floor.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not allowed. There was a recent depiction of the Riddler, though, that made me fall in love with the idea of a hooded blazer.

  214. 214.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Immanentize: Interesting. McConnell is who he is, I believe, because he controls the money, and he’s a cold-blooded operator with no higher ambitions. Scott famously fucked up spending early on, probably making big donors leery, impulsively released a legislative plan that was a gift to Democrats, and I doubt he doesn’t drift off to sleep at night dreaming of his inauguration.

    also, I heard on cable TeeVee the other day that the vote for the leadership is by secret ballot. Rick Scott may be kidding himself if he thinks that Teeny Weenie Marco, just for starters, will vote in a way that conforms to their public stance.

  216. 216.

    lowtechcyclist

    @pacem appellant:

    @lowtechcyclist: NYT needs to be burned to the ground (obviously metaphorically). I was OK with the WaPo for a while, but I ended my sub. They’re gunning to be just as bad as the NYT at this point.

    I don’t read them enough anymore to say for sure.  At any rate, I’ve found I can access the WaPo through the Calvert County Library website (Spanky take note!) so I’m canceling (ETA: I have canceled) my subscription.

    (ETA: It was up for auto-renewal later this month, and I’d already decided to kill my subscription, so this was a handy reminder to click through and actually do it.)

  217. 217.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    Since it’s an open thread and probably going to be knocked off by the crap that’s going down west of the old Soviet Union at the moment, plus The Former Guy finally getting fed up with not being the center of attention for the known universe:

    Elon Musk is currently re-enacting The Rise and Fall of Cave Johnson, and is probably less than a month away from giving his version of the Lemon Speech.

    Am I wrong? Am I being too obscure?

    :)

  219. 219.

    arielibra

    @Mike in NC: And the next day ate crow in his column (the avian white meat!) unlike just about every other pundit. I’m not a fan but I have to respect him for that.

  220. 220.

    Origuy

    The Guardian has a report that what hit Poland was the remnants of a Russian missile shot down by Ukraine. Russia has been shelling Lviv and eastern Ukraine; it looks like they are not bothering to make sure the flight paths don’t cross Poland.

  221. 221.

    raven

    Kick the tires and light the fires!

     

    Two missiles or rockets are reported to have hit a farm in Poland, near the border with Ukraine. Two people are reported killed.
    Polish media showed an image of a deep impact and upturned farm vehicle at the site, near the town of Przewodow.
    It’s unclear where the projectiles came from.
    However, the missiles or rockets landed at roughly the same time as a Russian missile attack on western Ukraine.
    A government spokesperson said that Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has convened the Committee of the Council of Ministers for National Security and Defense Affairs.

  222. 222.

    Geminid

    @Immanentize: The Intercept had an article about the scramble relating to the 17th district that was precipitated by the Special Master’s final map.

    They reported that Mondaire Jones had a quick poll conducted that showed showed his general election prospects in the new 17th were not good. The writer also said that Jones had polling of his primary prospects in the new 16th that he shared residency in with DSA/Working Families Party/Democrat Jamaal Bowman that did not look good. This, the Intercept writer said, explained Jones’s decision to run for the open New York 10th CD.

    I am somewhat suspicious of the Intercept, though, and this talk of internal polls may well not be true. The article can be seen in the context of the hotly contested primary for the NY 10th that Jones parachuted into.

    The nexus of the DSA, Working Families Party and Justice Democrats that the Intercept aligns with made a very big deal out of how Maloney “shivved,” shoved and otherwise did Jones wrong by running in the 17th district where he lived. But when it came to the 10th, state legislator Yu-line Niaou(sp?) was their choice. She was to come in second to new Congressman Dan Goldman.

    Jones had followed a course in his short congressional career that was very progressive, but relatively independent of left wing groups. After the redistricting, Jones was useful as a foil against Maloney, but had little value in his own right to the Intercept and its allies.

  224. 224.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: as I recall Jones and Niou agreed that Dan Goldman was the NY Dem party’s greatest monster and had to be stopped at all costs, except the cost of one them dropping out to let the other consolidate support against Goldman.

  226. 226.

    Bill Arnold

    @Quantum man:

    I heard Trump is truth socializing about stolen electrons today.

    So much negativity. The GOP should steal some positrons, in retaliation. A lot of them.
    Just … do it away from the rest of us.

  227. 227.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I suspect that Goldman will hold that seat for a while, now that he got throughis first primary. He’s a mere liberal, but that may be in character with the 10th’s Democratic electorate.

    But I live 300 miles away, and I am curious as to what New York jackals have to say about Goldman.

  228. 228.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

      I definitely think that’s not what the guy in charge of winning House seats shouting’s have done, and I definitely understand why people are pissed.

    Every Dem is subject to the standard of doing what’s best for the team. But

    1. What’s best for the team is not conclusively established by what the internet think is best for the team.
    2. Even if Maloney messed up, and he did to the extent he lost, the rhetoric about him suggests he did people wrong simply by running in the district, which is false.

    We sometimes get leery of people who primary sitting incumbents because of the risk involved.  But what Maloney did doesn’t even seem to rise to that level.  So the rhetoric strikes me as way off base.

  229. 229.

    eclare

    @Geminid:   He impressed me in whichever impeachment trial he was in.  He is also a filthy rich heir, who seems to be doing useful things.  A nice change.

  230. 230.

    Bill Arnold

    @raven:
    Today’s attack on Ukraine was said to be cruise missiles, of the following types:
    https://www.military-today.com/missiles/kh_101.htm
    https://www.military-today.com/missiles/kh_555.htm
    I suspect it was a Russian fuck up, e.g. vodka-induced targeting errors or missile malfunctions.
    They are said to be reasonably accurate (the first with a CEP of maybe as little as 5 meters). However, if so, then the Russians deliberately targeted three residential buildings in Ukraine today. Three is … not a coincidence.

  232. 232.

    StringOnAStick

    @Matt McIrvin:

    A lot of Democrats outside our bubble seem to want to want Biden to step aside voluntarily and to nominate Pete Buttigieg as the new party leader. I am skeptical.

    That’s precisely who they want though they expressed worry about his being gay.

  233. 233.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: @eclare: I have a vague but favorable impression of him. I do think he probably has higher ambitions, and all the Levi’s money burning a hole in his pocket…

     

    @Baud: also, the idea that he put his own interests ahead of the party’s assumes he believed he was the weaker candidate in the GE, but ran anyway. I don’t think any politician, especially one who’s won re-election several times, sees themselves as a weak candidate

  234. 234.

    tam1MI

    In regards to the Maloney election loss post-mortem, some points not yet mentioned:

    1. Mondaire Jones didn’t just “also live in the district” that Maloney bigfooted him out of – he had been born and raised there; as opposed to Maloney who had bought a house that he may or may not have lived in there. (Reporters uncovered evidence that rather than living in the house he was renting it out as a vacation home). People who conducted door knocking campaigns for Maloney are quoted in the Slate article as being surprised at how often Maloney pushing out Jones was brought up to them as a sore point with voters.

    2. Maloney had a primary challenger that he attacked as being soft on crime, using the media narrative of New York becoming a crime-ridden hellscape to do so. He took money from the Policemen’s Benevolent Association to do this. This arguably hurt many of his fellow Dems that lost seats, since it legitimized that particular narrative and line of attack. (Ironically, the PBA promptly switched sides in the general and attacked Maloney on being soft on crime in support of the Republican who beat him. Lie down with dogs…)

    3. When his campaign ran into trouble, Maloney siphoned off millions of party funds to shore it up, leaving many Dems who lost by far closer margins than he did twisting in the wind.

  236. 236.

    Baud

    @tam1MI:

    On point 1, once again, Jones had a right to compete in the primary in that district.  If he choose not to, that’s solely on him. If you’re going to use terms like “booted” and “pushing out,” you need to explain what that means.

    I don’t know enough about 2 or 3 to comment.

  238. 238.

    Eolirin

    @tam1MI: Okay, this kind of thing is why I’m so skeptical of all of the attacks being made toward him; Maloney’s margins are easy enough to look up, he lost by the smallest amount of everyone who lost.

    There isn’t anyone who lost by far closer margins than him. He lost by a little less than a percentage point. Only Conole was even remotely as close a loss, at 1.2%

    When bad faith and factually incorrect arugments are being continually raised, (someone a few days ago said he voted agaisnt the ACA despite not being elected until 2012) it screams of there being a coordinated smear campaign.

  240. 240.

    Ken

    The House Republican caucus has voted on making McCarthy speaker. He got 188 yes and 31 no votes, so has some work to do. I also saw a rumor/report that at least 3 of the no votes said they would never vote for McCarthy, which is a problem for him if they do end up with around 218-220.

  242. 242.

    Gravenstone

    @Immanentize: “Rick, your idiotic “plan” allowed the Democrats to beat us over the head and shoulders with it throughout this past cycle. You are kindly invited to fuck right the fuck off, or are you going to make me actually get my shivs out and make sure you have no political future from this moment forward?”

  244. 244.

    StringOnAStick

    @JoyceH: No, I do not think Putin is a master strategist, you’ve got my comment totally wrong and I don’t appreciate what you are implying.  Would you make this comment at Gin & Tonic, given his connections to Ukraine?  I notice that you didn’t.

  245. 245.

    tam1MI

    @Baud: To be blunt, it doesn’t matter whether I thought he was “pushed out” or whether you didn’t, what matters is that people in the district Maloney ran in thought so and it affected their vote. This perception of Maloney as a carpetbagger shoving a beloved native son made good could probably have been overcome had Maloney bothered to campaign in the district, but he didn’t bother – and it cost not just him, but the party.

  246. 246.

    James E Powell

    @Baud:

    Coming in at the end of a long discussion, so I don’t want to belabor thoroughly argued points. I feel strongly that if Maloney had won his election, we aren’t talking about this. Since he lost, he has to take whatever flak that comes his way. Politics is not fair.

    His gratuitous shot at AOC didn’t help any Democrats & didn’t make him look very good, but that’s kind of separate.

  250. 250.

    Roger Moore

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    Elon Musk is currently re-enacting The Rise and Fall of Cave Johnson, and is probably less than a month away from giving his version of the Lemon Speech.

    I don’t see a lot of rise in what’s happening to Musk right now; he seems to have skipped right to the part where he’s telling the test subjects “That thing’s called an elevator. Not a bathroom”.

  254. 254.

    Baud

    @Immanentize: Not true.  There are plenty of big dogs.  I just don’t hold it against the big dogs that they are big dogs, unless the big dog actually does something improper with his big-dog status.  A big dog running in the district where he lives does not meet that standard.

  258. 258.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: I will always love Maloney for his beautiful takedown of that asshole during Impeachment 1. He was some lowlife billionaire that TFG made our ambassador to the EU. I’ve mercifully forgotten his name. Sondland.

  260. 260.

    Immanentize

    @James E Powell: i think Maloney’s stupid post-loss whining at AOC, which was quickly shot down, is exactly part of the problem in NY. Rather than live and let live, Maloney and others in the D party (Adams of course) have been running down winners like AOC in an attempt to gain the votes in Staten Island, it seems.

  264. 264.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @Immanentize: Does he really want to end social security or does he want to stuff it in a bag and keep it for himself?

    Metaphorically speaking, of course.

  265. 265.

    Eolirin

    @tam1MI: Even if his seat had been salvaged, we still lose the House. This is a side show. NY’s overall numbers and the maps being relatively fair were the problem full stop.

    Also, this is like saying crime wasn’t really a problem but everyone thought it was and turned out on that basis, and that’s the Dem’s fault. And to the degree that they weren’t able to counter it okay, like sure, Maloney needed to campaign better to overcome that impression, and given that the margin was narrow he might have been able to. But it’s still a campaign tactic pushed by someone. If NY had voted the way it normally does he also would have won by several points, even with whatever campaign weaknesses he had. A gov win in the normal 15-20 point margin requires that these areas break blue. And since them going red was a regional problem, it’s not really down to individual candidate quality.

  268. 268.

    Baud

    @Immanentize: I stan for any Dem who is subject to unsubstantiated allegations.  If people want to criticize Maloney for his campaigning, I don’t have any basis for quarrelling. If people want to accuse Maloney of wrongdoing or improper conduct, I will ask what facts back up that accusation.  Having done so here, I have seen no justification to support those accusations. If people want to take issue with my conclusion, I will respond.  If people want to let it go, I will let it go.

  269. 269.

    tam1MI

    @Geminid: My understanding is that Maloney was responding to a shot Rep. Ocasio-Cortez took at him first, so it may not have been “gratuitous.”

    I can believe that AOC took a shot at Maloney first, but what the hell did Hochul ever do to him?

  271. 271.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: Goldman is just a Democrat. He is not a DSA member like Ocasio-Cortez and Bowman are, and did not have the support of the Working Familes Party like Niao did. Those groups are trying to build power within the New York Democratic Party. Niao would have been an addition to the “Squad” and Goldman will not be.

  272. 272.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Roger Moore: I figure the equivalent of the rise of Cave Johnson would have been Musk in his heyday as the front-man for SpaceX, laughing off the various explosions of failed attempts to land Falcon boosters for reuse after they successfully launched something into orbit. That’s like 50s/60s Cave; Elon at Twitter is well into late 70s Cave mode, but he’s still got a long way to fall.

  273. 273.

    Geminid

    @tam1MI: I have no idea. I got burnt out following the Israeli election. New York Democratic Party politics might be even more complicated than Israel’s, and they’ve got 12 parties over there!

  274. 274.

    Roger Moore

    @Qrop Non Sequitur:

    Does he really want to end social security or does he want to stuff it in a bag and keep it for himself?

    There’s not a lot of difference.  The big idea with gutting Social Security is that there’s still a trust fund.  As long as we were paying into the trust fund, that was great because it let us finance our deficits.  As we have to pay more and more out, it’s money that we’re forced to spend.  If we gut Social Security so it never withdraws from the trust fund, we can lower taxes on the ultra-rich by the amount we’d otherwise have to pay out in trust fund redemptions.

  275. 275.

    PJ

    @Geminid: ​
      It’s Goldman’s seat to hold as long as he wants. Justice Dems won’t have a realistic shot at replacing him in a primary unless he self-destructs.

    Somewhat related, if Goldman does well enough in the House, and if he doesn’t have long-term political ambitions in Congress, he would be a good mayoral candidate (of course, that all depends on how Adams performs, but right now, it’s not looking good.)

  279. 279.

    Geminid

    @PJ: Goldman strikes me as a House kind of guy, in the Adam Schiff mold. And he’s only just now getting involved in City politics.

    I know a lot of people want to ditch Adams, but there are probably other potential candidates who would be as good or better challengers as Goldman. And even though he seems to have gotten most everyone in the City mad at him right now, I would not underestimate Adams’ chances for reelection three years from now.

  281. 281.

    different-church-lady

    Froomkin:

    They [the political media] never even considered that voters might reject extremism.

    No wonder they didn’t see it coming.

    Call me paranoid, but my suspicion is a lot of them did see it coming… and they were actively complicit in trying to keep it from happening.

  285. 285.

    topclimber

    Just to get off the how NYS Dems fracked up, here are four races in California that point to Dem under performance there as well:
    The numbers show the actual Dem lead, vs. Biden’s vote in 2020.
    CA 13 = 1 vs. +11.
    CA 22:= (-5) vs. +13
    CA 27= (-9) vs +12
    CA 47= +1 vs +11.
    Maybe too much complacency in blue states, and way less passion than in the purple ones?​

  288. 288.

    Qrop Non Sequitur

    @topclimber: Maybe too much complacency in blue states, and way less passion than in the purple ones?​

    Not universal, though. We showed up in MA. My county even dislodged a Republican Sheriff who has been in office my whole adult life, so at least 20 years.

  289. 289.

    Roger Moore

    @topclimber:

    You need to be very careful when comparing 2020 districts to the districts with the same number in 2022.  For example, CA27 used to cover the San Gabriel Valley, a highly diverse area that voted consistently Democratic.  Judy Chu won the district every election since the last redistricting.  Since redistricting, though, CA27 covers the northwest San Fernando Valley, Santa Clarita, and the Antelope Valley.  It’s a totally different district.  The new CA28 is much closer to the old CA27, and Judy Chu is once again trouncing the sacrificial Republican sent out to oppose her.

  290. 290.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: There also is typically a greater drop off in Democratic voters in non-presidential years, relative to Republican.

    Some of those Biden districts could be winnable in 2024. I suspect a lot of the Republicans who flipped purple districts this year will be one termers. And some Republicans who held on in purple districts, like Ken Calvert in the California 41st CD, will fall also.

  291. 291.

    topclimber

    @Roger Moore: I am going with CNN’s claims about Biden’s vote in new districts. They say Biden would have won a district, not that he did, which suggests they drilled down to precinct level to properly compare apples with apples.

  293. 293.

    Ramalama

    @Elizabelle: I would love for John Fetterman to show up to Congress wearing business up top but cargo shorts and crocs down below. Kind of how I imagine Rachel Maddow keeps herself attired while on air. But with Fetterman it would be out in the open.

  296. 296.

    NeenerNeener

    @Immanentize: ​
      No, I still have Joe Morelle, who won Louise Slaughter’s seat after she died. But we got Claudia Tenney campaign ads in almost every commercial block all night long for months, even though this isn’t her district. One of the campaign promises in her ads was impeaching Biden in January 2023.

  299. 299.

    jackmac

    @StringOnAStick: ​
     It’s been said on other sites and programs (Stephanie Miller’s radio show comes immediately to mind) that Black women are America’s political early warning system.

    I’m good with that and am grateful they are on our side.

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