Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

T R E 4 5 O N

You cannot shame the shameless.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

No one could have predicted…

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

This really is a full service blog.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / That Fucking Balloon

That Fucking Balloon

by | 120 Comments

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A good number of the problems this country has, and certainly a lot of the stupid military action we undertake, could probably be ameliorated / avoided if we didn’t think that we are such special squirrels. If the US of A decided to fly one or 99 or 9000 balloons over any country on earth, we’d think we’re totally justified and fuck them for complaining. But when some other country flies one over our territory, the stupids in our media and the super stupids in the Republican party absolutely let loose in their adult diapers. This isn’t to say that we should just roll over and hide, of course, but it’s fucking 2023. We’ve been under low-grade attack from the Russians and the Chinese for years on the Internet, but nobody’s gotten half as excited about cyberwar as they have about a little helium and mylar.

If the loudest mouths in ‘Murica weren’t voiding their bladders and bowels over this, perhaps we’d take a moment to realize that a BALLOON isn’t the most fearful weapon that the world has ever seen. I mean, Jesus, the Japanese sent over 9,300 balloons our way during WW II and killed precisely 6 of us. Perhaps the proper response to this is to point and laugh at the Chinese. I’m guessing that a few Chinese heads have rolled over this, because it is a god damned embarrassment that (a) they’re using balloons for surveillance and (b) one apparently got away.

Maybe the loudmouths might want to consider making the Chinese lose a little face over this rather than soiling their undergarments, but instead they’re hyperventilating over something that would provoke 1/100th of the reaction in every other country on earth — and 1/1000th of the reaction in countries where a broken leg doesn’t mean bankruptcy for half the population, and where politicians don’t want to take up residence in the uteri of women of childbearing age.

Open god damned thread.

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  3. 3.

    MisterDancer

    Speak it, MM. I’ve been SO FRUSTRATED by this discourse, among others, and also have some ongoing RL shit I’m dealing with that makes me want to scream, so I’m more sensitive than usual, I reckon.

    This is the literal example of the Shiny Object Theory of Modern Media Manipulation, in a lot of depressing ways.

    Thanks for saying some shit.

  5. 5.

    The Moar You Know

    THE CHINESE BALLOONS ARE INJECTING COVID VIA 5G TOWERS INTO MY GENITALS, MAKING THEM SHRINK.

  7. 7.

    waspuppet

    Maybe the loudmouths might want to consider making the Chinese lose a little face over this rather than soiling their undergarments …

    What’s the fun in that? Next you’re gonna expect the Blame America First crowd to stop auditioning for Fox and get real jobs.

  8. 8.

    bbleh

    Well I guess NOW we KNOW who is a Woke agent of the International Communist Bioweapons Conspiracy…

    Also probably an atheist.  Which reminds me, when d’ya think they’re gonna come after atheists?  Just wondering idly.

  18. 18.

    Parfigliano

    Making the Chinese lose face doesnt advance the GOPers only two goals.  Cause DEMs to lose elections so as to put the GOP in power to then install another tax cut for the rich/corporations.

  19. 19.

    bluefoot

    I also thought this was a John Cole post when I started reading it. :)

    Am I the only person who thinks about the tv show The Prisoner every time I see a picture of that balloon?  I keep half expecting Leo McKern’s voice in the voiceovers during news segments about the balloon.

    I wish the RWNJ were able to freak out about something constructive.  Anything constructive.

  20. 20.

    coin operated

    @bbleh:

    Which reminds me, when d’ya think they’re gonna come after atheists?  Just wondering idly.

    Not until the LBGTQ scare mongering runs it’s course.  Maybe 50 years from now.  We’re nowhere near as visible as the sinners in their sights today.

  21. 21.

    trollhattan

    WHO has stark assessment of the quake’s toll.

    The death toll from a strong earthquake in south-eastern Turkey, near Syria’s border, could rise eight-fold, the World Health Organisation has warned.

    The toll, which currently stands at more than 3,400 people, has increased rapidly since the first earthquake struck early on Monday morning.

    About 12 hours later, a second powerful tremor hit further north.

    Rescuers have been combing through mountains of rubble in freezing and snowy conditions to find survivors. Countries around the world are sending support to help the rescue efforts, including specialist teams, sniffer dogs and equipment.

    The US Geological Survey said the 7.8 magnitude tremor struck at 04:17 local time (01:17 GMT) at a depth of 17.9km (11 miles) near the city of Gaziantep. Seismologists said the first quake was one of the largest ever recorded in Turkey. Survivors said it took two minutes for the shaking to stop.

    The second quake – triggered by the first – had a magnitude of 7.5, and its epicentre was in the Elbistan district of Kahramanmaras province.

    Many aftershocks are still being felt across the region.

    The number of dead and injured from both Turkey and Syria has increased rapidly throughout Monday.

    The WHO has warned that those numbers are likely to increase as much as eight times, as rescuers find more victims in the rubble.

    “We always see the same thing with earthquakes, unfortunately, which is that the initial reports of the numbers of people who have died or who have been injured will increase quite significantly in the week that follows,” the WHO’s senior emergency officer for Europe, Catherine Smallwood, told AFP.

    Ms Smallwood added that the snowy conditions will leave many people without shelter, adding to the dangers.

  23. 23.

    Barbara

    Howling and baying and ginning up outrage is the name of the game even if it undermines your country’s best interest.

    Of course they are spying on us. Maybe the world is even better off because both sides feels like they have a better handle on what the other is doing.

    Trust Marco Rubio to run for the cameras before having any actual knowledge.

  26. 26.

    Aunt Kathy

    I haven’t kept up with comments from previous threads, so forgive me if this has already been hashed out. But doesn’t ANYbody remember April 2001, our spy plane went down on a Chinese island? 20-some of our people were kept for a while? And China had a good look-see at our spy stuff before they sent it back to us in pieces. We spy on them. They spy on us. Sometimes, somebody gets caught.
    I think it was Ben Rhodes who caught some flak a few yrs back because he said what we all know. It’s easy to manipulate the press because they never bother to learn or remember history. Idiots.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    @Aunt Kathy:

    Completely different.  The president was a republican.  Bush got a lot of credit from the media for that even though China made him dance to get our people back.

  30. 30.

    Martin

    My favorite element of this was the ‘what if it’s delivering a virus’ aspect of it, as if that didn’t just accidentally happen and the folks peddling the warning did fuck all about it and let ballpark a million people die as a result.

    I wonder how much of our GDP is just ‘fear’. Ramping everyone up so that they will part with their money to make the fear go away – from campaign donations to guns. Mostly on things that have no impact on mitigating any real risk, or actually making the feeling of fear go away because you’re just rewarding the people who made you afraid to begin with.

  31. 31.

    Almost Retired

    I am mostly in the point and laugh team on this.

    Unless this was a hilariously inept intentional provocation, my take away was that the Chinese are using state-of-the-art surveillance technology first used by Napoleon against the Habsburgs?  Be afraid?

  32. 32.

    bbleh

    @coin operated: ya think?  There’s not much left of LGBTQ except T, and public opinion has shifted so decisively (partly in reaction) on things like same-sex marriage, that apart from trans people, and maybe drag queens and occasional categorical raving about “grooming,” I’m kinda thinking it’s nearly run its course.  And so very very many of them have never — to their knowledge — even encountered, much less engaged with, a trans person that trans people have become a sort of chimera, and I don’t know how long a battle against people entirely in the RWNJs’ (admittedly fevered) imaginations can hold their attention.  I’d give it more like 5 years to burn out completely.  And THEN where will they turn?  (Other than non-white people, I mean.)

    Also, Holy War in the name of Jesus (for the infidels’ own good, of course) is pretty tried-and-true.

  33. 33.

    trollhattan

    @Baud: I wonder if the Pueblo had an effect on Nixon’s first election. It was seized during LBJ’s presidency, then Nixon won, then we got the prisoners back in December before inauguration.

    Unlike ’72, ’68 was pretty tight.

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    @Baud

    Wasn’t that about contemporaneous with when the sensationalist media was laser-focused on willowy young blondes disappearing from cruise ships?

  35. 35.

    trollhattan

    @Martin: Plus, there’s is no other possible way to deliver biohazards than a balloon traveling at 70,000 feet altitude. It’s very precise.

  37. 37.

    gene108

    and 1/1000th of the reaction in countries where a broken leg doesn’t mean bankruptcy for half the population, and where politicians don’t want to take up residence in the uteri of women of childbearing age.

    Japan and South Korea would freak the fuck out, if a North Korean or Chinese spy balloon took a coast to coast trip across their respective countries.

    European countries wouldn’t take Chinese or Russian spy balloons calmly either. The Nordic countries that neighbor Russia are already on edge with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. A Russian spy balloon wouldn’t be shrugged off as no big deal.

    I have no idea why you think other countries are calmer than the USA. The French have hissy fits over Muslim women covering up at the beach.

  38. 38.

    LeftCoastYankee

    Perhaps the proper response to this is to point and laugh at the Chinese.

    I feel like maybe they are returning the favor at the moment.  We are a very silly people.

  39. 39.

    Brachiator

    If the US of A decided to fly one or 99 or 9000 balloons over any country on earth, we’d think we’re totally justified and fuck them for complaining.

    We probably do fly balloons. We certainly use aircraft and satellites. The U2 incident from the early 1960s was one of the first revelations about this. The Soviet Union pretended to be violated and we did the dance of pretend regret.

    But when some other country flies one over our territory, the stupids in our media and the super stupids in the Republican party absolutely let loose in their adult diapers.

    Some conservatives believe that we need an enemy. And the designated enemy du jour is China. I have heard local talk show hosts and pundit blowhards use this and other “offences” to prove that while we MUST cut spending on social programs, we can never, never, EVER cut defense spending. In fact we need to increase military spending.

    Also, some of these people believe that war with China is inevitable, and may be even a good thing to hope for.

  41. 41.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @coin operated:

    “Which reminds me, when d’ya think they’re gonna come after atheists?  Just wondering idly.”

    Not until the LBGTQ scare mongering runs it’s course.  Maybe 50 years from now.  We’re nowhere near as visible as the sinners in their sights today.

    It will be sooner than that. The Christian supremacists have so alienated the younger suburban/urban youth that athiesm and ‘unaffiliated’ are the fastest growing religious groups.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    @gene108:

    I don’t think anyone would “freak out.” They’d take it seriously like the Biden administration did.  Biden hasn’t treated this as a joke, but he also hasn’t overreacted.

  44. 44.

    bluefoot

    @Martin: ​  Yeah, it’s goofy. Like, we already have a serious virus (more than one!) circulating and COVID causing death and long term disability. Why not freak out about getting better ventilation, access to vaccination, consistent mitigation strategies, funding epidemiology and public health? Increase the NIH budget? Put limits on what profit pharma companies can get from the COVID vaccines?
    It’s all just outrage and rage and fear. No putting all that energy to action.​

  45. 45.

    Brachiator

    @bbleh:

    Which reminds me, when d’ya think they’re gonna come after atheists?  Just wondering idly.

    My momma did not raise no fools. When they come around for atheists, I will be thumping my Bible long and hard.

    Of course, the villains would find me out if they asked me to join in with persecutions.

  47. 47.

    RepubAnon

    @trollhattan: We are – Number One!

    USA! USA!

    Plus, I enjoyed the Twitterer who characterized this as our sad lack of steampunk technology.

    It’s also amusing to note Team Rocket blasting off again!

  49. 49.

    Brachiator

    @gene108:

    Japan and South Korea would freak the fuck out, if a North Korean or Chinese spy balloon took a coast to coast trip across their respective countries.

    Japan and South Korea stay calm even when North Korea shoots missiles close to their territories.

    And spy planes fly over countries all the time. Can you say U2 or SR-71?

    Not to mention satellites.

  51. 51.

    Martin

    @bbleh: I don’t think they will. Atheists are much less visible. It’s why black people got it the worst. Gay people were harder – they could hide and suffer through. A decent number of atheists are Christian atheists anyway so they’re fine since they’re still carrying the cultural water.

    But my observation at the loss of cultural authority on the cultural right wasn’t coming from the reduction of white people, but the reduction of Christians – mainly their kids. I think by the time they decide they need to take on the atheists it’ll be too late. Their power will be gone. Sure, maybe in some states they’ll take a run at it, but my guess is the larger war will have already been lost by then.

    I think one thing that helps is that atheists aren’t advocating for an alternative. Typically the things atheists advocate for is personal agency, and that’s the same thing that most minority groups are advocating for, the LGBTQ community, etc. Until we start demanding that we take ‘In God we trust’ off of the money, we’re not a distinct target even though we tend to be allies of all of the other targeted groups. Now, maybe that’s a shitty thing – maybe it would help those groups if we stuck our head out more to take heat off of them, but at least as things are now it doesn’t seem like atheists are the drivers of the cultural changes that the right opposes. In time that may change, but honestly I don’t think any oppression of atheists deserves to be near the top of the list of wrongs in need of correcting in this country relative to how other groups get treated. I’m more than happy to put POC, LGBTQ, folks with disabilities, etc. first. Hell, I put Muslims and Jews ahead of atheists on the ‘folks whose rights are violated’ list. My guess is we mostly get a free ride on this one.

  52. 52.

    Suzanne

    @bbleh:

    And so very very many of them have never — to their knowledge — even encountered, much less engaged with, a trans person that trans people have become a sort of chimera, and I don’t know how long a battle against people entirely in the RWNJs’ (admittedly fevered) imaginations can hold their attention. 

    They probably have encountered a few trans people in their lives, and just not known it, because other people’s personal lives are not their business.

    They always manage to find someone who to hate. If there is anything in life that is limitless, it is the pants-crapping of social conservatives.

  53. 53.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Suzanne:

    If there is anything in life that is limitless, it is the pants-crapping of social conservatives.

    Nominate for the tagline.

  55. 55.

    different-church-lady

    Because I don’t watch TV, I have missed the entire freakout over the balloon. (Not the balloon itself, just the freakout.)

    Usually I can kinda tell second-hand what the latest freakout is all about, but I’m thinking this one is an entirely cable-news driven phenomenon. Like the entire freakout is nothing more than a “THE CAMERA IS ON ME!!!” thing.

  56. 56.

    different-church-lady

    @Baud: ​
     

    Biden hasn’t treated this as a joke, but he also hasn’t overreacted.

    No wonder the press hates him.

  59. 59.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: The SR-71 in particular I think reveals our bias. We’re offended by the balloon because of how primitive it is – it only operates over the US because we’re unwilling to risk the safety of citizens in shooting it down. Of course we have the tech to do it – we shot down a satellite in orbit with an F-15, FFS. But we’re not able to show that superiority because we care about possibly hurting someone. It’s emasculating in a way.

    The SR-71 was different – it was defiant. We’re going to fly over your country and there is fuck-all you can do about it. Americans could act as though were were aliens who came to earth, so technologically superior everyone else was powerless to stop us. The powerless only have rights if the powerful wish to grant them. They don’t even have the option to fight for them.

  62. 62.

    Doug R

    If it made landfall in Alaska, and then entered the USA again over Northern Idaho, that means it overflew British Columbia. Surprise none of the Canadian rage farms have blamed Trudeau for that.

  63. 63.

    JoyceH

    @Brachiator:

    Some conservatives believe that we need an enemy. And the designated enemy du jour is China.

    So… NOT the long-time traditional foe who recently invaded a harmless freedom-and-peace-loving democracy, and is still there committed war crimes and atrocities… Hmmm. Interesting…

  65. 65.

    Martin

    @bbleh: I don’t think that’s quite the case yet. It’s trending that way, but we’re still struggling with female president, let alone gay president. We may not be writing formal laws against gay people, but there are still plenty of cultural (informal) laws we’re writing. I don’t think black people felt especially liberated after the Civil Rights act was passed. Yeah, it was a big step, but so much still to do, and 60 years later still so much left to do.

  67. 67.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: Liberals need an enemy too. All of America’s systems are constructed around competition, not cooperation. The concept being that the good idea will beat out the bad idea, rather than my idea plus your idea might combine for the best idea. We just choose our enemies differently.

    I don’t for a second pretend to be immune to this.

  69. 69.

    pat

    So it’s carrying virus so we should shoot it down in a populated area and ….   geez these people are stupid….

  70. 70.

    JWR

    @trollhattan:

    Plus, there’s is no other possible way to deliver biohazards than a balloon traveling at 70,000 feet altitude.

    Unless they were counting on a Marco Rubio response from Biden and the thing was shot down somewhere over the “heartland”, breaking the delicate glass vials containing the deadly virus, which would be spread by Prairie dogs.

  73. 73.

    Dan B

    @Martin: There are many nasty anti- LGBTQ  laws coming out of GOP controlled states but most are going to make young people feel isolated and oppressed.  It is very discouraging that young people will experience what my teen years were like.  The US was headed in a good direction for the last couple decades.  Our neighbors are mostly BIPOC and feel reasonably safe here and are fine with us two Gays.  They’re less at ease in rural and majority white areas.  It seems that some changes never happen.

  75. 75.

    Geminid

    @pat: I’m not sure the people saying this are that stupid. They are making bad faith arguments and hoping a credulous audience.buys them.

  76. 76.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Dan B:

    If you live in an rural area, its still going to be scary to come out. I don’t see that changing for the next decade at least. Things really have changed in the suburbs and cities, even in red states. The laws in red states do make things worse, but at least there isn’t this overwhelming everywhere disapproval.

  78. 78.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    Liberals need an enemy too.

    Sorry, you stretch the idea past the point of relevance. I don’t wake up in the morning hating anyone or thinking that my life depends on someone being oppressed.

    Also, I don’t believe that liberal and conservative represent any real categories, only how some people insist on identifying themselves.

    I certainly do not believe that we must expand our military so that we can attack … someone, anyone.

    All of America’s systems are constructed around competition, not cooperation. The concept being that the good idea will beat out the bad idea, rather than my idea plus your idea might combine for the best idea.

    Interesting way of looking at things. Good point. But even here, fighting over ideas is not the same thing as beating up your neighbor.

  82. 82.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    Easy science experiment for your wee ones during a deep freeze.  Buy a pack of little balloons.  Fill up with water and add food coloring. Tie.  Leave outside for a few days until frozen.  Cut off latex with something sharp like a box cutter and behold beautifully colored ice spheres.   I bought some this weekend but it got too warm.  Basement is now a balloon party.

  83. 83.

    Scout211

    Domain awareness gap?! No wonder the right wing is insisting that the story of the spy balloons under the Trump years is fake.  The military’s explanation of why they went “unnoticed” actually sounds fake.

    CNN

    The American military had a “domain awareness gap” that allowed three other suspected Chinese spy balloons to transit the continental United States undetected under the Trump administration, the Pentagon general responsible for providing air and missile defense over North America said on Monday.

     
    “Every day as a NORAD commander, it’s my responsibility to detect threats to North America. I will tell you that we did not detect those threats,” Gen. Glen VanHerck, commander of US Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command said when asked about the three other balloons.

    “And that’s a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out, but I don’t want to go into further detail.”

  84. 84.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Brachiator: @Martin:

    Liberals need an enemy too.

    I interpreted that as liberals need an ‘enemy’ like Trump to band  together, instead of tear each other apart.

  86. 86.

    coin operated

    @Brachiator:

    My momma did not raise no fools. When they come around for atheists, I will be thumping my Bible long and hard.

    Unfortunately, I’d be one of the first to burn at the stake. I’m at peace with the fact that my brain does not process the supernatural realm.  Aliens, ghosts, gods of all stripes just do not compute…until one decides to c’mon down and shake my hand.

    I married a budding fiction writer who is into paranormal phenomenon. When she wants to talk about that kind of stuff, she’s learned to give her daughters a call.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    @bbleh: Atheists are safer to hate than many of these other groups, for many years polled as one of the most disliked groups in America (I don’t know how it is now)… but atheists can pass, more easily than just about any other marginalized group, because so many self-described Christians today aren’t particularly observant anyway so there’s little distinction in behavior. It’s harder in places where some particular fundamentalism is the norm.

    I think that active religious observance is declining rapidly enough that “going after atheists” is just going to get harder and harder.

  90. 90.

    Matt McIrvin

    @trnc: The Roswell incident was literally actually a balloon crash (from a classified US military project to detect nuclear explosions with airborne microphones). So there’s a tradition of balloon freakouts.

  91. 91.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: You don’t need to beat up your neighbor to think of them as an enemy. Damn near every sports fan others the fans of other teams. How many Calvin pissing on Chevy logos are still on Ford pickups.

    A lot folks here dislike the fucking olympics because of how adversarial it tends to be cast. You know, that event designed to bring countries together in peace.

    I mean just the word ‘Florida’ is a running joke here. Well, everywhere really.

    (See what I did there?)

  94. 94.

    BruceFromOhio

    These wig-out episodes demonstrate repeatedly:

    – GQP is all about negative reaction (hate, fear, war, cruelty), clickbait and fundraising

    – The topic is irrelevant if it drives these three things

    – There MUST BE A WAY TO MANIPULATE THESE SIMPERING IDIOTS INTO SELF-IMMOLATION using this methodology.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    @BruceFromOhio:

    – There MUST BE A WAY TO MANIPULATE THESE SIMPERING IDIOTS INTO SELF-IMMOLATION using this methodology.

    You’d think so, but they have no logical or emotional resistance to falling into line once a great white savior emerges. That’s their political strength–they can be directed as a bloc in ways that we can’t because we think about stuff.

  97. 97.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Baud:

    Alright Baud. We need to figure out something you can ‘save’ me from. That way when the Talibangelicals ask me if I’ve been ‘saved’, I can say ‘Yes! Of course!’

  100. 100.

    JaySinWA

    @Matt McIrvin: The Pro-vaccine campaign had an impact, much like the imagined “don’t drink bleach” PSA was supposed to.

    Just applying Cleek’s law with an Democratic party sponsored anti-suicide ad might do it.

  101. 101.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Baud: The leather bar kind or the kind that eat you in Alaska? I’m pretty sure the leather bar kind aren’t actually threatening, but they would probably get a kick out of pretending to be.

  102. 102.

    Brachiator

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    RE: Liberals need an enemy too.

    I interpreted that as liberals need an ‘enemy’ like Trump to band  together, instead of tear each other apart.

    I band together with others only out of necessity, because people insist on making me their enemy. But I don’t need an enemy and I don’t need to be anyone’s enemy.

  104. 104.

    Procopius

    …it is a god damned embarrassment that (a) they’re using balloons for surveillance and (b) one apparently got away.

    Oh, for [family blog]’s sake, it’s a weather balloon. I’ve been amazed/disappointed at how timid Americans have been since 9/11. And it’s not a “hot air” balloon, as I’ve seen stated elsewhere.

  106. 106.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    You don’t need to beat up your neighbor to think of them as an enemy. Damn near every sports fan others the fans of other teams. How many Calvin pissing on Chevy logos are still on Ford pickups.

    Got nothing to do with me. In general, I lack the “give a shit about sports” gene.

    If you are saying we tend to be tribal, yeah. But this is trivial. We can bring others into our tribe, abandon our tribe, etc. Human beings are adaptive.

     

    A lot folks here dislike the fucking olympics because of how adversarial it tends to be cast. You know, that event designed to bring countries together in peace.

    I hate the way Olympics are marketed, especially the nationalistic bullshit. But I love the competition. And I also recognize that the original Olympics competitions were sublimated warfare.

    A competitor or opponent is not the same thing as an enemy.

  108. 108.

    bbleh

    @Martin: Ok, let’s start a pool.  We’ll need to define a threshold for “coming after” (although my guess is, it’ll be pretty obvious, because after all that’s the point), and we can let someone reliable hold the wagers, like, I dunno, a Republican Congressman, hahahaha I joke.

    (Either way I’m screwed, so what do I care?)

  109. 109.

    bbleh

    @Brachiator: But even here, fighting over ideas is not the same thing as beating up your neighbor.

    Or, y’know, hating them.  For its own sake.

    A competitor or opponent is not the same thing as an enemy.

    This.

  110. 110.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Baud: a few years ago we had a San Fran meet up at the Thirsty Bear. You should have seen M4 and Mister Forkbeard!

  111. 111.

    Sally

    @Matt McIrvin: I can assure you that atheists in Atlanta, Georgia are not well thought of.  The neighbours didn’t let their children play with ours because we not only didn’t attend church, but didn’t reference “god in our lives” frequently in conversation.  The Catholics mixed with us, but not the Southern Baps.  I heard a pig farmer on TV saying he hated those Muslims, but at least they’re not them atheists!  We never admitted to being atheists, but there was a strong suspicion in the area!

  112. 112.

    brantl

    I was most surprised that Biden didn’t say that he wondered how the Chinese were going to navigate spacecraft, if they can’t manage a balloon.

  116. 116.

    Ruckus

    @The Moar You Know:

    I’ve been informed that you can’t afford that outcome!

    I’d rat out the person that told me that but he owes me money and wasn’t supposed to be checking you out in the club locker room….

  117. 117.

    Tony G

    @RedDirtGirl: It was like a John Cole cover band.  But, seriously, it is imperative that we not fall behind in the Balloon Arms Race against those inscrutable Asiatics!

  118. 118.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Very good FT article that provides the background of an apparently sizable Chinese program of sending surveillance balloons all over the world. Most relevant parts:

    They “are all part of a [Chinese] fleet of balloons developed to conduct surveillance operations, which have also violated the sovereignty of other countries”, a US defence official said. “These kinds of activities are often undertaken at the direction of the People’s Liberation Army. Over the past several years, Chinese balloons have previously been spotted over countries across five continents, including in Asia, South Asia and Europe.”

    In February last year, four groups of high-altitude balloons were detected over northern Taiwan, home to most of the country’s population and some of its most important air defence sites. The same month, the US Air Force scrambled fighters to intercept an unmanned balloon off Kauai, a Hawaiian island that has a key missile-testing range.

    In January 2022 one of the white orbs was spotted over India while another was seen over Taiwan in September 2021. The earliest publicly reported sighting was over the northern Japanese city of Sendai in June 2020. Taiwan’s armed forces last year confirmed a local news report that the February 2022 balloon swarm originated from the PLA Rocket Force, the missile arm of the Chinese military. In keeping with Taipei’s strategy to avoid public panic over Chinese military threats, the defence ministry said the balloons posed no danger and were being used for meteorological observations.

    …

    The US navy on Saturday was starting the process of trying to recover the debris from off the South Carolina coast. The defence official said the US would learn more after analysing the debris, but he said assessments conducted while the balloon was in flight showed it had a “broad array” of spying capabilities. The PLA’s balloons have been doing much more than spy on whatever country they are flying over. According to a military official from another Asian country, one focus area in the Chinese military’s balloon flights in recent years is to collect data that can enhance the accuracy of over-the-horizon and other radar systems used for targeting in wartime.

    Military analysts said data points such as atmospheric density would help the PLA develop software tools known as advanced refractive effects prediction systems, which are critical for advanced radars that aid missile, air and naval operations.

    “They are likely to be making rapid advances in this now given the recent steep increase in the frequency and range of such balloon flights,” said the military official who asked not to be named because he was not authorised to speak to the media.

    Amazing that these intrusions have not caused international incidents before! Were they not detected before? Some of the previous sightings were not Chinese balloons? Some of the previous sightings were not surveillance balloons?

  119. 119.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Also remember the RQ170 incident in Iran in 2011, where a US RQ170 stealth reconnaissance drone entered > 200 km into sovereign Iranian airspace, & was brought down via cyber hack. IIRC, the dominant media narrative in the US at the time was that Iran was behaving provocatively by bringing the drone down.

    Hypocrisy never dies in international relations.

  120. 120.

    StringOnAStick

    @Sally: Southern Baptists suck, period.  I’m related to a couple and I keep them out of my life.  Being allied to a religion that split off from Baptists so they could keep supporting slavery is just a garbage take on spiritual matters. Fundamentalism in every form sucks.

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