When voters are presented with how Republicans actually govern, they go running in the opposite direction.
Good news for Dems ahead of 2024.
— Tim Fullerton (@TimFullerton) February 22, 2023
This is an open thread, since it looks like we could use one.
japa21
Things are looking up. Hopefully this is also a good omen for Virginia elections later this year
JWR
Trying hard to squeeze out a #2…
;
TA-DAH!
Gin & Tonic
Re-posting from dead morning thread.
FTFNYT indeed. Here comes their Moscow correspondent, on Twitter, repeating without any fact-checking russians’ claims that there are 200k people at the Z concert in Luzhniki Stadium. The stadium has a seating capacity of about 77,000. Probably too hard for her to mention that.
acallidryas
I’d like to think that’s correct, but I don’t think this is really proof of anything for Democrats. it was an out of cycle special election in a district the Rs were never going to win and that wasn’t going to result in any changes of control. Ds were turning people out for McLellan and the first Black woman from our VA delegation but it wasn’t a hotly contested seat. Lots of Rs who would have turned out to vote for a presidential election and cast a congressional vote while there weren’t showing up just for the special election.
So, happy to see this, and it’s certainly not a bad sign, but I don’t think we can take it as evidence for any other races.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
In russia, truth is whatever they want it to be/say it is, reality be damned
I’m thinking that FTFNYFT is squarely, absolutely in the same barrel as the russian ruling lack of class.
UncleEbeneezer
HumboldtBlue
“If we played them ten times, they might win nine. But not this game, not tonight. Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight we shut them down because we can. Tonight, we are the greatest hockey team in the world.” – Herb Brooks, today in 1980
43 years ago today, Miracle on Ice.
I remember like it was yesterday.
Almost Retired
Super happy with the Wisconsin election results. Janet Prozac (or whatever) got slightly more votes than the two Republicans added together – and the two Dem candidates received almost 54% of the total. The Trump nut won (the woman he defeated would seem to be the stronger candidate in the general), and the media is already covering his record of election denying. Time to start badgering voters to turn out in April!!
CaseyL
Had a flurry of a snow flurry in Seattle this morning. It had just started when I got on the train to work, and when I emerged from the train tunnel at Husky Stadium the snow was coming down thickly and sticking. It was beautiful, because snow is always beautiful while it’s falling.
Now, a few hours later, it looks like the snow has melted away here in the University area, but there may be some snow still on the ground further north.
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
The other part is that whiteness is inching closer to neutral than it has been throughout US history, and the usual suspects are freaking out, as is their wont.
UncleEbeneezer
Conservatives’ war on emotions in the classroom
“Social-emotional learning has been a basic — and uncontroversial — part of education for decades. So why are conservatives waging a war against it?”
I’m going to hazard a guess that a lot of this is about parents wanting to prevent having their kids develop empathy and trying to ensure that their kids can be ambivalent, obnoxious, disrespectful (even downright bullies) to their schoolmates, without facing any consequences.
West of the Cascades
@Gin & Tonic: I saw somewhere (that I can’t find now) that spectators were paid 500 rubles to attend?
Ruckus
@CaseyL:
Supposed to snow here in SoCal over the next few days. Not much in the flat lands but the highest mountain near me, Mt Wilson is said to be getting up to 100 inches. That’s a bit of snow for SoCal. It’s said we might see flurries in the greater LA area.
geg6
@HumboldtBlue:
Me too! What a game that was, even though it wasn’t in real time.
SpaceUnit
@UncleEbeneezer:
Yeah, I read that earlier.
Clearly the future of the Republican Party depends on a sizable portion of the population growing up angry and maladjusted.
HumboldtBlue
@geg6:
Yup. It was tape delayed until 8 p.m.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic: Even assuming that they had more than 77,000 because they allowed for standing room tickets, any Moscow reporter should know by now not to take these things are face value and tweet them. She could have just said that the stadium looked full.
Baud
@geg6:
@HumboldtBlue:
Ah, the days before Internet spoilers.
West of the Cascades
@HumboldtBlue: I was living in Buffalo at the time, and was lucky to be able to watch it live on CBC out of Toronto (compared to ABC’s tape delay). Most amazing sporting event I’ve seen on TV.
trollhattan
George McClellan? Imagine my confusion.
Gin & Tonic
@West of the Cascades: Many were. There are also videos of masses of people filing out as soon as the free food ran out. It’s very cold there, you’re not going to stand around for free.
HumboldtBlue
@Ruckus:
It’s snowing inland just outside the city, and it’s fucking cold, with temps forecasted for the low 20s tonight and snow on the coast.
dmsilev
@Ruckus: The forecast I saw said “snow down to 1,000 feet”, so still the mountains, but getting all the way down into the foothills. And then rain for lower elevations; I think my local forecast said 3 inches worth over the next few days.
trollhattan
@Ruckus: Yeah, we sure don’t see this kind of thing in the Valley very often!
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
The way to a man’s heart. I’d probably listen to Putin for free food.
dmsilev
LA Times:
Given that people around here break out the ski parkas when the temperature drops all the way down to the upper 40s, I predict much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the next few days.
Ruckus
@CaseyL:
Mt Wilson, which is in view of my front door, is expecting 4 ft of snow through Saturday. Mt Wilson is just over 5700 ft. I live in the eastern edge of LA county about 4 miles from the San Gabriel Mountains.
geg6
@Baud:
I was a bartender at the time and had worked the daylight shift. I got off at 6pm and brought a bunch of bar food takeout and beer home and a bunch of friends came over to watch with me and one of my roommates. Our living room just went insane when the game ended! And then we all marched back down to the bar (our rental house was 3 doors down from the bar) and had the band that was playing announce the score and that whole place went nuts. The band, too. They went on break and the TVs in the place were all turned onto ABC to see the highlights. Such a fun night!
Chetan Murthy
I’m guessing people saw the Galup poll that said that LGBTQ identification ticked up to 7.2% ? https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx
Twice what it was in 2012. The real “wow” finding was:
All I can think about, as I read this, is my friend from college who came out once he left Texas. And a guy I knew in high school (in East Incest, TX), who later came out, and lives a few blocks away from me here in SF. What was life like for them? How long did they wait until they told even *one* person the truth of their life ?
20%. 20%. How did we manage to crush a fifth of our population with this insane shit, denying them the right to live their lives in truth, when it didn’t affect or concern any of the rest of us? How?
I’m so thankful that this is changing.
jeffreyw
I have questions..
FelonyGovt
@dmsilev: That’s for sure! Digging out foul weather attire that I haven’t used for many years. Although I really don’t plan to leave the house for the next few days.
Origuy
Just for fun: The Tim Traveller visits the German town that has the World’s Largest Toilet.
Matt McIrvin
@UncleEbeneezer: The move that freaks out conservatives more than anything else is to treat dominant groups–white people, men, straight people, cis people, etc.–as something other than the default, unmarked case. To treat them as just one group among others, rather than the normal type of people.
That was why they flipped out over the very phrase “cis people” as if it were some kind of slur, once it started getting popularized. It was a seemingly new way that they were not the default. They correctly perceive this as a little bit of privilege draining away.
HumboldtBlue
@Baud:
Indeed, I recall avoiding any TV so as not to spoil the game.
@West of the Cascades:
I had just turned 15, the greatest sporting event of my life to that point and remains so to this day.
Oh, and not sure if any of you were following the story of the woman who set fire to a pride flag outside an NYC restaurant, but that trifling twat has been arrested.
And I’m not sure why, but I am always double depressed when an act of hate is committed by a woman, maybe because my mom and sisters were and are such awesome people.
geg6
I seem to remember someone here saying they’d heard some rumors that John Tester may not run for re-election. I am here to say that I think that question has been answered. I got two text messages from him today asking for donations. Pretty sure that means he’s running.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Just got my first fundraising email for the new election cycle. John Tester is running for reelection. I know everyone was awaiting this announcement with bated breath
@geg6: Jynx
RaflW
@Baud: But, but … Think of her sources and contacts!
OzarkHillbilly
You know what else would save a lot of money? Him committing seppuku.
Baud
Via Reddit, latest fascism act in FL. Automatic liability for accusing someone of discrimination, unless it’s religious discrimination. Also, apparently, also virtual eliminate media protection against defamation.
https://i.redd.it/0x0e980alrja1.png
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: I don’t even see anything in there stating the accusation has to have caused reputational damage. Defamation of feelings is enough, I guess.
Jackie
@HumboldtBlue: I do, too! America went CRAZY with joy! It truly was a miracle.
eclare
@Gin & Tonic: She is a stenographer not a journalist. What a waste.
Alison Rose
Hi, everyone. My Dad passed away one week ago.
I feel far too young to have lost a parent, but I also know plenty of people have experienced this at far younger ages than I am. So I’m trying to be thankful for getting to spend 42.5 years with him. I’ve spent the past week on memory lane, thinking of things he and I used to do together and places we went and what he liked and stories he told me, and sometimes it’s comforting and makes me smile, but it also hurts like hell and makes me sob. And I guess that’s probably how it stays for a while, yeah?
I know death is part of life. But it still sucks. He was a very good man.
Baud
@Alison Rose:
My condolences. That’s always hard.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Alison Rose: Sorry to hear. Take care of yourself.
Spanky
@HumboldtBlue: I object to the use of the term “deranged”. Never assume derangement when a simple “asshole” will better fit the crime.
HumboldtBlue
@Jackie:
It really did capture the national spotlight.
@Alison Rose:
So sorry to hear that, have some love for you and Pop from the North Coast.
eclare
@UncleEbeneezer: Yep. I remember a very privileged white cis het male friend who went on and on decrying “special interests” on the Democratic side in the 2016 election. YOU ARE A SPECIAL INTEREST!
I have no doubt he is now full blown MAGA, although I cannot confirm. We are no longer friends.
Spanky
@Alison Rose: Yes, it always sucks. My condolences to you.
cain
@JWR: I see what you did there.
ETA but wait.. #50 bwahahaa! 50 TRUMPS 2!
Old School
@Alison Rose: My condolences. Sorry for your loss.
SpaceUnit
So very sorry, AR. It hurts.
Chetan Murthy
How do you know you’re heading in the wrong direction? When Tuckums wants to be your friend.
Don, you need to, y’know, find a mountain and go sit on it and contemplate.
Geminid
@geg6: Politico put up a story this morning about Tester running. Evidently that wasn’t certain. It sounds like creepy Matt Rosendale wants a shot at Tester.
eclare
@jeffreyw: Huh.
Nelle
@Chetan Murthy: Has anyone challenged Don Lemon to say “prime for what, Don? Be explicit.”
Baud
@Chetan Murthy: What’s the context? I mean, I agree biology is real as in it’s a real science. I assume the context has to do with trans people.
cain
@OzarkHillbilly: Imagine if Jesus said the same thing about God.
WereBear
@Alison Rose:
When we lose someone close to us, our brain which is intimately wired with then feels the lost tooth, which is why we feel that hole in the center of our being where we used to have the comforting knowledge of them being here.
The process of grief is to slowly fill in that hole with the memory of them. Which is not as good, but lets them live on through us, and the stories we tell of them.
eclare
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry, I figured something must have happened with your absence. It’s hard.
Geminid
@Chetan Murthy: Carlson’s not on Lemon’ side. He’s trying to stir shit up and Lemon is a means to that end.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: Judging by the replies to the tweet, he was apparently trying to say he’s “pro-life” even though it would be cheaper to allow abortions to occur, so he’s a stand up guy. But who knows?
UncleEbeneezer
@Matt McIrvin: Yup. And that assumption that white people are the default is the most glaring, and probably the most commonly held form of White Supremacy.
CarolPW
@jeffreyw: I hope they are prepared to deal with interracial children.
UncleEbeneezer
@Alison Rose: So sorry to hear it. Lost my Mom when I was 39 (11 years ago) and it still hurts even though we weren’t very close. Deepest condolences to you.
Matt McIrvin
@Chetan Murthy: I think it affects more than the 20%.
Even the rest of us who are cishet enough to comfortably identify as cishet… maybe I’m just overgeneralizing from personal experience, but I doubt most of us have never had any momentary feelings that go outside the box. And we’ve been trained to react with fear and suppress that. It’s ancient fodder for comedy, after all.
It’s just this background constraint on freedom for everyone. Another way to make people worry needlessly.
JPL
@Alison Rose: It does suck, and I’m so sorry for your loss.
FastEdD
@Alison Rose: “I won’t cry because it’s over, I’ll smile because it was.” -Antsy McClain. Brilliant song writer and a friend of mine. Good words, but so hard to live by. My heart goes out to you.
Jackie
@Alison Rose: So sorry, Alison. I was 62 when my Dad died. I had a lot of years with him, and, yet still wasn’t ready to lose him. It’s been 5 yrs this coming Sat and, what with Jimmy Carter in hospice as was Dad, I’ve been thinking and dreaming about him a lot this week.
Be kind to yourself and hug the memories close.
CaseyL
@Alison Rose: I am so sorry. It’s good that you have great memories of him.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: But it affects people who cling to their bigotry most of all, so that’s why they are lashing out.
eclare
@CarolPW: Hahaha….
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Alison Rose: oh Alison, you have my deepest sympathy. I hope you will draw solace from the community here as I have.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Or an experience stepping outside the box, even for something fairly anodyne, and getting cis-heteronormative pushback
surfk9
Condolences Alison Rose. Remember the good times!
geg6
@Alison Rose:
I totally understand and sympathize. My dad died in 1999 and my mom in 2001. I was, respectively, 41 and 43. I still feel too young to have lost my parents, especially my dad to whom I was very, very close. This is why January is always the cruelest month, IMHO. Dad passed on 1/2 and mom on 1/28.
The Lodger
@Alison Rose: So sorry he’s gone.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry.
geg6
@Nelle:
Apparently one of his co-hosts did in real time. He had no answer that wasn’t as sexist as sexist gets.
Yutsano
@jeffreyw:
I mean…they have to make more right?
Citizen Alan
@Chetan Murthy: And it will continue. I have always believed that if there were no social strictures in place to demonize same-sex relationships, a significantly larger percentage of people would come out as bisexual. I have some very good friends, a married couple in their 40s with 3 kids, and both of them consider themselves bisexual and have had same sex relationships in the past.
CarolPW
@Alison Rose:
I am so very sorry. It took a while, but my dreams of sick dad eventually were replaced by dreams of healthy dad which was nice. It helped ease some of the loss.
Annie
@Alison Rose:
Deepest condolences. And yes, it will take some time. My grandfather and I used to swap mystery novels. After I moved to California we’d discuss them on the phone. We’d send each other paperbacks we thought the other would like. It,took about 3 years after he died before I could look at a mystery novel without automatically wondering if my grandfather would like it.
Glidwrith
@Chetan Murthy: The same way “we” ignore women being stripped of personhood, at the behest of religious fanatics. Or anyone of color being murdered by the police.
The calculus is obviously changing as those of us with a conscience continue to fight, but dayum.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@CaseyL: When I was up there(grad student at UW), we had about a week of snow my last year there. The U looked amazing with snow
ETA: They’re predicting a rain/snow mix here in Glendale tomorrow morning.
RevRick
@HumboldtBlue: Brooks’ sons run the Flyer farm team Phantoms in Allentown PA.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
I see a lot of stupid shit in my Facebook timeline about the hootenanny at Asbury College in Wilmore KY.
I’ve made some angry, pithy observations, including the following:
FelonyGovt
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry. Losing a parent is incredibly hard, at any age. Take care of yourself
ETA the raw hurt will last for quite a while, I’m afraid. But you will eventually be able to remember him with a smile.
twbrandt
@HumboldtBlue: I don’t think I breathed for the entire 3rd period of that game.
Chetan Murthy
@Baud: Lemon was discussing Nimrata Haley’s prez candidacy with some other CNN anchors (female), and he said Haley was “past her prime”:
I mean …. WTF. So blinded by his dick he can’t manage to think about women in any context divorced from reproduction.
Chris T.
@Gin & Tonic:
A quick look at Wikipedia says that the maximum attendance ever was 102k (many decades ago) and that a refurbishment reduced the capacity, so yes, there’s no way there are 200k people there.
dmsilev
@Alison Rose: I’m so very sorry.
Yeah, pretty much.
Citizen Alan
@Chetan Murthy: To be fair, there is a certain truth in this. Nikki Haley is a Republican, after all, and among Republican voters, a woman’s value as a human being is directly proportional to how “fuckable” troglodytes consider her to be. See also Sarah Palin and how she caused that National Review perv to get a thrill up his leg.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Chetan Murthy: What prompted this line of discussion? I’ve met exactly no one ever who would suggest that your 50s is too old to be President.
I’m curious about this line:
Is the “she” here Haley? My wild-ass guess is Haley was criticizing potential Presidential opponents for their age and Lemmon brought the whatabout to a bad place.
Brachiator
@Alison Rose:
My condolences. Please take care.
I liked this. Very simple, but once of the best things one could say about a parent or other person who is important to you.
RevRick
@Chetan Murthy: back in the early 60s I was in Junior high school and there was a boy who was tormented unmercifully in our gym class, because he seemed somewhat effeminate. I was part of that pack of hyenas. I carry the shame of my participation with me to this day.
This is the world to which MAGA fascism wants to return.
raven
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry to hear this.
Chetan Murthy
@Citizen Alan: 100% agree with you. And when Lemon said this, I thought to myself two things:
But that’s not what her said. He more-or-less said that for him, the definition of a woman in her prime, is when she’s fuckable.
Obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPpsI8mWKmg&list=PL1gI2eKjrAW–IJe7gFmk5dt75EGVLzJd
frosty
What you did there, it has been seen.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@raven: “Don’t say gay” was such a wild success, they decided to take it statewide and expand it for racists and misogynysts. You know, meeting the needs of the people.
RevRick
@Alison Rose: May the Source of all comfort comfort you and your family in this time of sorrow.
Chetan Murthy
@RevRick:
I remember doing similar things. You want to “fit in”, and when the group into which you want to fit expresses racist, misogynist, and homophobic views (expresses them out-loud), well then, you do the same. The shame remains with me to this day, too.
cain
I have edge on my Linux machine and the start page is msn.com – saw an article from Washington Examiner that caught my eye because it was so laughable. Apparently, hordes of migrants are coming from Canada into Vermont and all of them are illegal Mexicans! That’s right – these hordes snuck through the U.S. and Canadian borders – probably went across Ontario to Quebec and then snuck back down into Vermont!
The border controls sent out a memo looking for volunteers! Yes, volunteers to stop the horde.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/border-patrol-sends-out-call-for-volunteers-after-850percent-surge-in-crossings-from-canada/ar-AA17Mdek
But to make it super duper scary – the front page picture isn’t Mexicans – it’s black people with young children!
Anoniminous
Stand Back! I’m going to use MATHEMATICS!!!!
Primes: 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97 ….
So a woman is “in her prime” when she is 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97 or … years old.
cain
@Alison Rose: So sorry to read this – my deepest condolences.
Anoniminous
@Alison Rose:
Please accept my condolences.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Breaking from MSNBC: Jack Smith has subpoenaed the JarVanka
Alison Rose
Thank you for the kind words, everyone. It’s very much appreciated.
persistentillusion
@geg6: Yes, Tester announced he’s running earlier today.
Anoniminous
@cain:
Goddamn Canuckexicans coming to ‘Murica stealing our jobs in the maple syrup and taco industries.
Matt McIrvin
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: We may already be able to make a case that it’s becoming unsafe for most people to even go to Florida. This is a state that thrives on its gigantic tourism industry. It’s such a thing that there are airports and airlines that only have passenger service at all because of flights to Orlando and Fort Lauderdale.
Hell, I’ve gone there multiple times, family members are there now. I’m certainly thinking twice about booking any future travel to the state, and it’s not just in protest.
People who visit the state generally figure that the state government isn’t going to cause them any trouble, but with DeSantis going out of his way to harass Disney, they’re doing their best to pierce that bubble of unreality.
Maybe normies don’t care about politics, but maybe normies care if some of them end up in jail because Ron DeSantis decided to make an example of them.
Eolirin
@Chetan Murthy: If that number is 21% the actual number is almost certainly higher too. I think the biggest thing with Gen Z discourse and identity is that it’s a lot less binary. I think a lot more people are fluid, ace or bi/pan than ever talk about it for various reasons.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ooh. That could be fun
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Chetan Murthy: I’m gay and grew up with all this. Even after I kinda knew, I remember being younger making homophobic and gender-normative comments.
It’s easy to internalize this stuff and spread it no matter who you are. Children need guidance, respect, and appropriate context to understand the way they treat others.
CaseyL
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
Back in November 1978 (? or ’79), one of my roomies took a photo of me on the front lawn of the boarding house, standing in a few inches of snow. I had moved to Seattle from Florida a couple of years prior to that, and this was the First Real Snowstorm for me.
(I think I sent the photo to my Mom back East. By mail, because that’s how we shared stuff back then. Mom keeps photos forever, so maybe that one is still lurking in a long-forgotten album or shoe box somewhere.)
raven
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’m not sure what you are responding to?
Dan B
@Chetan Murthy: My teen years were especially isolating I didn’t know anyone gay until I was 19. I kept ffeeling like I might be the only one. There were no gay people in any media. I believe I have some form of PTSD / depression.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I’ve known for a while I would refuse to travel there for the foreseeable future. This moved it from protest to personal safety for me.
DeSatan does love making examples of people to support unjust laws. The chilling effect is real.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@raven: The post just before yours. I misclicked.
frosty
@Alison Rose: Yes, waves of grief and waves of comforting memories. That’s the way it goes. You have my condolences.
raven
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Thanks
Baud
@Chetan Murthy:
Should have asked Chat GPT.
UncleEbeneezer
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
👍
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: Those aren’t the prime earning years at all. If he’s not talking about professional success, which would make sense in the context of a Presidential contest; what, oh, what could he mean?
JCJ
@Almost Retired: Time to start badgering voters to turn out in April!!
You know Cheeseheads are very used to Badgering, but don’t you dare try Gophering or Wolverining us!
Baud
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Honestly, the first thought that crossed my mind is that he’s trying to help Haley by insulting her.
God help me, I’m being seduced by false flag theory.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: A personal insult won’t get her there, he would need to be performatively triggered by her.
Ken B
So what happens if Disney announces that they’re shutting down all their operations in Florida, including Cruise Ship arrivals/departures?
My guess is they can afford the cost better than Florida can.
Brachiator
@Chetan Murthy:
RE: Lemon was discussing Nimrata Haley’s prez candidacy with some other CNN anchors (female), and he said Haley was “past her prime”:
It was stupid on all levels, but it represents how a lot of men, and even some women think about female leaders. It is good that this be aired out.
This nonsense defines women by their sexuality and potential fertility. A male leader presumably still has plenty of testosterone and can beat up other male leaders. But a woman who may be in menopause, why hell, she barely even exists.
I saw a clip of Lemon saying this, and knew immediately when he talked about “if you google it” and definitions of prime that he didn’t even realize that he was not looking beyond a woman as more than a mother or romantic partner. It was like watching someone about to drive into a sinkhole. You could see it coming and not be able to do anything to stop it.
Yeah, we could jump all over him. But a lot of people have to get pass this crap to be able to accept women as political leaders.
Also, Don Lemon is gay, so he wasn’t a typical macho guy thinking with his d*ck.
geg6
@Chetan Murthy:
Which, I have to say, I find disconcerting in a gay guy. In fact, a lot of gay guys I know have this problem.
Obvious Russian Troll
@Alison Rose:
I’m so sorry to hear that. Both my parents passed away when I was in my thirties and it was a rough time for me. I can’t imagine you’re doing much better.
I am, however, grateful for the support my in-laws have given me over the years. (Although my father-in-law passed away a few years ago and my mother-in-law is nearing the end.)
UncleEbeneezer
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yeah, and this is exactly what conservatives are afraid of. They know that their children’s school environments are largely going to guide them to treat marginalized groups with some level of basic dignity/respect. Conservatives desperately want to go back to the days of sexist/racist/homophobic jokes were commonplace in classrooms (and even joined in by teachers).
Chetan Murthy
@Brachiator:
OK, that is *all manner* of weird. He doesn’t see women as sex objects, and yet he can’t then make the jump to youth has nothing to do with being in their prime” ? Got no idear what’s going on in his head.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ooooo, both of them, I hope?
Eolirin
@Chetan Murthy: He very likely doesn’t spend much time thinking about women at all, so the misogyny is via cultural osmosis. It’s very deep in this country.
RevRick
@Chetan Murthy: The irony for me is that I was being bullied by a pair of boys on a daily basis after school as I walked home. But being bullied didn’t make me any more sympathetic to the boy we tormented.
Thank you for sharing your similar experience.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@geg6: It’s the society, maaaaaan.
We all have blind spots. It’s fine to criticize; good, even, as long as we keep it in perspective.
I’ll continue not watching Lemon, as I haven’t been. If he makes a sincere effort to adjust the associated views, I’ll bear him no long-term ill-will.
persistentillusion
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s raining subpoenas (h/t to Allison Gill and Andy McCabe’s pod – Jack).
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@geg6: Read closer, they’re now a common entity.
UncleEbeneezer
@geg6: My wife has a bunch of gay male friends from her years working in the museum world. I was kind of shocked at the level of casual misogyny when we first started dating. Hell, they’re not much better than most of my fellow Cis/Het male friends.
JustRuss
@Alison Rose: I was 24 when my dad passed, my brother was only 17. Now I’m nearly as old as he was when he died, makes you think.
Sorry for your loss, I’m glad you appreciated him.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@UncleEbeneezer: I did myself a favor jumping into a field with a disproportionate amount of highly-educated professional women.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chetan Murthy: They aren’t sex objects for him. But he can still view them as such on a societal level.
Westyny
@Alison Rose: Deepest condolences. I’ve been there. Good parents are good company, besides being gods to our subconscious. Every other day something happens that I’d love to tell either one of my parents about. Somehow that’s a blessing. ❤️🩹
Jackie
In other news:
“Former President Donald Trump’s daughter Ivanka and his son-in-law Jared Kushner have been subpoenaed by the special counsel to testify before a federal grand jury about Mr. Trump’s efforts to stay in power after he lost the 2020 election and his role in a pro-Trump mob’s attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021,” the New York Times reports.
“The decision by the special counsel, Jack Smith, to subpoena Ms. Trump and Mr. Kushner underscores how deeply into Mr. Trump’s inner circle Mr. Smith is reaching, and is the latest sign that no potential high-level witness is off limits.”
This makes me gleefully happy! 😁
Eolirin
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yeah I think that’s the thing that does the most, having to actually deal with navigating relationships with women and take them seriously in the context of there being consequences for bad behavior.
The more you can be insulated from consequences in your interactions, or just not ever have many meaningful interactions to begin with the more work you need to put in to self reflection to not end up being an asshole. And self reflection is hard.
UncleEbeneezer
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I did the next best thing by dating and then marrying Feminist women (two diff women but both really challenged/changed my worldview/priorities etc). I only wish I had been friends with women* (rather than only trying to f…them) at a much earlier age so I could’ve spared the world a couple decades of casual misogyny in addition to all the good stuff I would’ve gotten by having opposite/different-gender people in my world. Better late than never.
* And Black people, LGBTQ people etc.
Chetan Murthy
@RevRick:
Precisely my experience. And that of every “ABCD” (American Born Confused Deshi) I’ve ever met (above a certain age: thankfully it’s changing). We all came to this white country as children, wanted to fit in, and since we experienced racism at the hands of our schoolchild peers, we turned around, and in order to fit in, imposed racism on other schoolchild peers. Typically Black peers, but also (SMDH at this, but I lived it) other South Asian peers.
There was a trope of Desi folks in the US, that they (we) would not meet the eyes of other Desis we passed on the street. As if somehow, we were tainted by association with them in public. B/c we wanted to associate with white people. Ugh. So much sickness.
I know that only after moving to SF (at age 42!) was I finally able to start sloughing off that shit.
prostratedragon
@Jackie: Furthermore I doubt Mr. Smith has called the two of them to find out more about what Mark Meadows was doing.
Anoniminous
Musical Interlude: Androgynous
Baud
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
I completely missed the words “a field with” on my initial read.
scav
@UncleEbeneezer: Yeah, things can get weird with individuals. Couple of very out guys, full on bears, were actually among the worst about not believing in bisexuality except as a wimp-out position for actually gay individuals, let alone asexuality as anything other than clinical mental aberration. Zero empathy, added to not being able to see how some of their arguments were exactly those formerly leveled against homosexuals. Luckily, (shhh, don’t tell them) their approval was neither important nor sought.
Jager
@HumboldtBlue:
On the day of the Gold Medal win, my kids and I were skiing at Killington in Vermont. After a long day on the slopes, we napped, cleaned up, and headed out to dinner. The game was delayed 3 hours by ABC for broadcast at 8 pm. We went back to our condo and watched it. When the game was over, the condo parking lot filled with families chanting, USA! USA! We joined them. When the medals were presented, some guy dragged a TV set out on his balcony, everybody cheered their asses off, then we all sang the Star Spangled Banner and went back in. My daughters were 12 and 10 at the time. What a night!
Anoniminous
@Brachiator:
Cultural conditioning is orthogonal to sexual orientation.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: Ayo…
Dan B
@Eolirin: I got schooled on my misogyny by W.I.T.C.H. (Women’s International Conspiracy from Hell) in 1970. They were supporting Chicago Gay Liberation. Radical feminist organizers didn’t suffer fools.
MagdaInBlack
@Alison Rose: I am so sorry. Yeah, it does suck. Be kind to yourself, you’ve had a huge kick to the heart.
Gin & Tonic
@Alison Rose: So very sorry to hear this, Alison. I was only 27 when my own father died; it was very difficult, and remained so for a long time.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Dan B: Wait, are you being serious here? That was a thing?
Jeffro
@Jackie: that’s awesome!
trucmat
@RevRick:
I am still ashamed of similar behavior in HS decades ago. One boy got sick of my shit and punched me in the stomach. My jock friends wanted to beat him up but I told them it was my fault and to leave him alone. I really did learn something from that but it’s been a process to throw off the bigotry I was taught. I hope I’m a good ally now at the least.
Gin & Tonic
In other news, Elmo goes full BiP, tweeting that nobody is pushing the (russian) war more than Victoria Nuland.
HumboldtBlue
@RevRick:
Did not know that.
@twbrandt:
Indeed.
@Jager:
Helluva memory.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
My MAGA loving parents honestly set me on the path toward feminism. Not by espousing it openly, but they modeled it well considering all the toxic opinions I’ve heard about other areas of life. It was just the nature of their relationship. Don’t want to get into too much more detail.
They taught me about human dignity and respect, I just tend to apply it more broadly.
Anyway
@Alison Rose:
So sorry to see this, Alison. My condolences to you and your family, Take care.
Dan B
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Yes. It was founded by Rennie Davis’s* girlfriend. They put on witches outfits, stirred a big cauldron, and handed out pamphlets. People were entertained and curious so they took the pamphlets.
*Chicago Seven defendant.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Dan B: Wait, what’s the Chicago seven?
Never mind, I’ll take this one on my own. You helped me enough today. 😁
Jeffro
Since this is an OT…this pro-Senator Tim Scott piece just won’t fly, no matter how hard author Matt Continetti tries.
Just silly stuff these days
Let’s have Biden v DeSantis 2024 and have it out already!
UncleEbeneezer
@scav: In 2017 I got into a heated argument with a white, Cis, Gay male friend when he made a crack being really dismissive about Transphobia and Black Lives Matter, saying they get all the attention, unlike cis, gay men. He said this in West Hollywood, of all places, making it all the more ironic.
He was also one of those Bi-is-just-Gay people back then too. I’m pretty sure he has evolved since then but I unfriended him and don’t see him that often anymore. He was also grossly misogynist and would use his gay, male identity like that made it okay.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I think I may have inverted the intent of your comment in my mind here now that I’ve been looking this over more closely.
raven
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: You don’t know who the Chicago 7 was? Dang.
japa21
@Alison Rose:
I will add my condolences. Both my father and father-in-law died within 6 months of each other shortly after our first son was born. Mrs. Japa and I were still in our 20s. It was, needless to say, devastating to both of us. Since our 2 boys grew up without grandfathers, it was, and still is, important to them that we are involved in their children’s lives. One of the reasons I finally gave up smoking was to be around to watch them grow to adulthood.
Both of us (our mothers are also now deceased) will frequently have thoughts of them cross our mind almost 50 years later. Always with a twinge of pain, more most of the time with a smile at the memory.
Brachiator
@Anoniminous:
Except for certain times of the month when a woman is an irrational number.
Can I get someone to cosine this? Or is that too much of a tangent?
//snarka doodle doo
kalakal
@Alison Rose: My deepest condolences.
I was about your age when my dad died and yes it hurts terribly. But it does get better with time I hope that the time will come that when you think of your dad the first thing you think of is the love and joy.
UncleEbeneezer
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Good for you. My parents weren’t overtly misogynist, like no Women-belong-in-the-kitchen bullshit, but they were still very anti-Feminist and would never help me see how misogynist so much of our culture in the 80’s-90’s was. I would have been a much better person in my 20’s if they had.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@raven: Just found out. For reference, I was born during the blighted Reagan ascendancy.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
We all could have been better in prior decades if we knew then what we know now. I count that as evidence that the culture is mostly, albeit slowly, improving around issues of human rights and respect.
raven
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Babysan! This might get ya started.
Major Major Major Major
@Alison Rose: Oh, how awful. Condolences.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@raven: There’s a film? That’s way better than a Wikipedia that will take me a month to resolve from my browser tabs now that I’ve read the first paragraph. Thanks.
Took me a minute on Babysan. First reaction, “isn’t that a college?”
Yeah, I’m a veritable spring chicken at roughly 40.
Dan B
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’ve also got stories about being trained to avoid the hit the Chicago mob planned, helping the Vice Squad to not fill their 200 paddy wagons with us gay folk at a big dance, and doing a zap of two anti-gay psychiatrists at the big convention in 1971 that led to the task force that got homosexuality off the DSM. Wild times!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Dan B: Damn, makes 90s school bullying sound like a walk in the park. Sometimes I regret I missed all the big protest moments; then I think about it and nah, I like starting with the improvements already banked
Eta: So thank you for the work you out in over the years.
cain
@Chetan Murthy: Yeah, I really hated that ABCD nonsense. There is nothing confused about me, yo.
Ksmiami
@Ken B: they certainly should threaten the closures… make DeSantis public enemy #1
NotMax
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Courtroom artist sketch of Bobby Seale after being gagged burned into memory and will never not raise my hackles.
Mallard Filmore
@Chris T.:
You rotate them in and out, for the food.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
It just occurred to me I’m pretty close to having posted here for half my life.
Princess
If 20% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ…well, they do not exist in a bubble. Let’s say each one has one unique cishet friend. That makes 40% of Gen Z feel an absolute imperative to vote for people who won’t deny their, or their friend’s right to exist.
Maybe that’s why they expected 27 UWisconsin kids to vote yesterday and instead got 500, all lining up at the single voting booth.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
I’ve been around gay folks for the last 50 yrs because my sister was gay. It’s nothing new, the only difference is that that far more humans are now willing to be open about their sexuality. And even with all that we have a large segment of the population of not just this country but the entire world thinking that human appreciation for another human can only take one form/direction.
It’s just bullshit.
Baud
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Based on my Internet experience, you’re doing young people wrong. You’re supposed to hate the olds for having it so easy.
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
The better half, I’m sure.
Gvg
@Ken B: I hate to say it, but you are wrong. Florida gets money from Disney indirectly and it has bills to pay, mortgages, taxes, wages that still have to be paid with no revenue, not even figuring stockholders. Even if most employees have DeSantis and what he is doing, they still have mortgages, children and need to eat so there is no way a shut down would work out well for the good guys unless it was involuntary. Then I could see federal intervention and public support. Otherwise it works for DeSantis and Disney will never do that. It’s just something to say because you are mad and frustrated. We need to think of better plans to screw and destroy all these performative maga bully’s so their type falls out of use. I’d like one of these over the top governors to cross a line enough to end up in jail really quickly for going to far. I think that would chill things pretty well.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I save that for issues pertaining to money.
Definitely many good years. Though there was that one…and the residual effects the following one….
danielx
@Ruckus:
Much like the last two Republican administrations.
MagdaInBlack
Sitting here in the grey and dismal Chicago nw suburbs, watching the lights flicker, my internet go in and out, and the ice build up on the trees. And being thankful I took the day off.
trollhattan
@Chetan Murthy: This Don Lemon?
Just sayin’.
zhena gogolia
@Alison Rose: I’m very sorry. We’ve missed you.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
Sorry about your dad.
It’s tough losing a parent.
Take care of yourself and remember him well.
Dan B
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: We’re probably going to need to organize for LGBT+ rights in red states. For certain for Trans rights. You may get your wish to be part of activism.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
I just walked to my car in a large parking garage.
Why is there a pamphlet entitled ::clears throat:: “Hey!!! Is it REALLY ‘OK’ to be Gay? What Does the Word of God Say?”
The answers inside may surprise you…if you’re new here…
Also, too, I don’t see these in other doors.
Sure Lurkalot
@Alison Rose: Condolences to you and your family and all who knew and loved your dad. It sounds like you have a lot of good memories and may they be a comfort to you.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Dan B: Sadly you’re right. Once I find a gay spin to put on “Underground Raiload” I’m good to go. Harder than it may look at first glance.
eclare
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
That’s creepy.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@eclare: Boston is supposed to be woker than this.
Maybe it’s my fault for leaving lube in the cup holder. But I’m a busy man.
Baud
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Yes.
The guy who invented the 🌈?
Cameron
@UncleEbeneezer: Bet at least one of them sings louder than James O’Keefe.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: Facts. At least I have a 90 minute 20 mile drive home to stop being mad about that and get mad about cars as our primary source of transport.
Burnspbesq
@dmsilev:
that means snow in places that never get snow: Altadena, Monrovia, Anaheim Hills. Angeles Crest Hwy, Ortega Hwy, Mulholland Dr., Santiago Canyon Rd. Will all be closed.
Snowpocalypse, for real.
Jacel
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: The Chicago Seven is the typical number of pounds people gain after eating in the Chicago area on a weekend visit.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Jacel: That sounds happier. I’ve never been to Chicago, I’d like to.
The movie was good.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
“Well you know women are only good for one thing”……
BTW this is absolute snark, unless you are a conservative asshole. It’s not enough that one’s skin has to be blindingly white, or that a penis is the most important part of human anatomy, some people are so damn close minded they think the world revolves around the 400 yr old 6ft diameter redwood tree they have stuck up their ass.
Matt McIrvin
@Ken B: Disney is not going to do that, period. And they can’t necessarily afford the hit.
Disney actually does not care one iota about being socially progressive beyond what people force them to do. They didn’t want the fight with DeSantis but many of their employees and consumers do care. This is part of the reason why their efforts to deal with old problematic content or make gestures in a tolerant direction are so clumsy; they’re only doing it under duress. But they’re also the biggest target in the entertainment industry so they end up getting it from both sides. Which, contrary to the wisdom of Broder types, does not mean they’re in a good place.
Quiltingfool
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry. Loss of a dearly loved parent is so very hard.
Blessings be upon you, my sister. May your Dad walk with joy in the Summerland.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Chicago 7 was a defensive alignment used by the Bears
bjacques
@Burnspbesq: Anaheim, not to mention Azusa, and…
.
.
.
…Cucamonga!
I’ll get my parka
Ruckus
@Eolirin:
I know gay men who never, ever say anything about it outside their close friends. I know one who when he’s among friends he knows well is the most outwardly gay person I’ve ever met, besides my gay sibling and her partner when they were alive and together and when he’s at work he’s button downed 3 piece suit who never discusses who his friends are. When I was at their funerals I was among the 10% who aren’t gay.
Zelma
@Alison Rose:
So sad for you. I lost my father much too early too. And 40+ years after the fact, I still have moments when the loss seems new and raw. Remember the good times
Soprano2
@Alison Rose: I’m so sorry, the loss is hard no matter what age you are.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
I think it’s not at all unusual that most humans grow up being like those around them. We learn how to behave (or not) from those around us. We learn how to fit in or how to stomp down on everyone else from those around us. We are/can be rather independent but we grow up in the world as it surrounds us and guides us. And unless we are somewhat loners or somewhat more independent than most we are very much going to want to fit in. And that starts a long time before most of us start having ideas/concepts of being an independent person.
KenK
@jeffreyw: mating beetles?
Ruckus
@UncleEbeneezer:
The world is full of people who fit but don’t fit well in one group/segment of humans, they have bits and pieces of things they learned, were exposed to, reacted to or against and all of the bits and pieces do not always go together the same way. It’s a jigsaw puzzle with a lot of parts that fit in more than one place in the full picture or which has some serious holes in the finished product.
eclare
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Hahaha…
J R in WV
@Alison Rose:
Sorry to hear about your dad ~!!~
My dad died in 2004 after several weeks of at home Hospice care — I got to be with him and hold his hand for several weeks, thanks to my brother calling and saying, if you want to be with dad, you better come now.
He died on election day, and my ( RWNJ ) brother didn’t say a word as we watched election returns that night, which was sweet of him. My dad was also a good man, for years ran a Xmas Toy Fund to hold a party with gifts for kids on welfare who otherwise would not have had anything for Christmas.
I hope you never forget the good things about your dad~!!!~
Ruckus
@danielx:
There’s a difference?
OK, most of those rethuglican maladministrations are slightly less willing/able to have a gestapo. But only slightly……
Ruckus
@Burnspbesq:
Snow has fallen in Monrovia before. I know I grew up there. Didn’t build up any evidence on the ground mind you but still it has snowed in Monrovia.
Chief Oshkosh
@Alison Rose: My sincere condolences. I lost my dad a two years ago, and though I’m a lot older than you, it was still too soon. It sounds like you two had a good relationship, as we did, and thinking on that, revisiting the good times in my mind, helped me a lot. The pain and sadness lessens with time.
Uncle Cosmo
@Chetan Murthy: I always thought ABCDEFG stood for “Another Bewildered Confused Distraught Expatriate From Gujarat.” Well, not always, but at least since 1995 when a university librarian I was working fairly closely with dropped that into casual conversation…
Bupalos
@Chetan Murthy: we need to learn to tell this story with the framing you are giving it here. This is a story about expanding freedom for everyone. That is what democracy and liberalism means, and we need to reclaim that.
I think we’re at an inflection point in American politics writ large. For my entire adult life, the word freedom has somehow been owned by the more narrowminded- the so-called “conservatives.” A big part of that is an inheritance from the cold war, when liberals really did make some mistakes about freedom.
But now. From book purges and laws about what teachers can and cannot teach; to laws reaching all the way in to people’s bodies in the name of holy writ and sacred tradition; to carelessly tossing entire populations and cultures away to wolves like putin, in the name of a rounding error on the defense budget… in all these things they are currently in the process of shoveling every scrap of their attachment to the word and reality of freedom into the bonfire of their fear. This needs to stick to them for 40 years.
scav
@Ruckus: When I was terribly wee, there was a snow on the ground event in Glendora . . . . round about Apollo 8 timeframe?
cain
It is bullshit – and only religion will impose a binary choice. (well, Abrahamic religions) – sexuality has always been on a spectrum, intelligence on a spectrum – there is no such thing as one or the other.
The fact that there is some deity who ostensibly knows everything would impose binary choice on everything is ludicrous.
Shana
@Chetan Murthy: Umm, isn’t Don Lemon gay?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Shana: Keep reading.
Matt McIrvin
@scav:
Wasn’t that a political thing for a while? I can kind of understand it: if you regard getting as many closeted gay people as possible to be out as a matter of literal life-and-death importance, you’re going to be inclined to think of someone who expresses what sounds like a wishy-washy version of the orientation as just being afraid to get with the program.
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
It may have been in part political, but it is also where politics often conflicts uncomfortably with a deeper reality.
It was like saying, “Gay or Straight.” You must be one or the other. There cannot be, there must not be any other variation.
Where have we heard this before?
Manyakitty
@Alison Rose: so sorry for your loss. May his memory be a blessing and an inspiration
Brachiator
@cain:
I like how you begin to make a categorical statement about religion and then immediately back away from it. I guess that all human societies have some obsession with and rules about sexuality, but I don’t know that, for example, Buddhism in itself gives a shit about sexuality or gender.
This doesn’t sound quite right, either. Spectrum is just another metaphor about human traits, but doesn’t quite nail it.
This is not to say that you are wrong, but it has been interesting to see how, I guess, the 20th century has seen more open contemplation, and fighting over these subjects, often including vain attempts to impose the most reductive and restrictive definitions and restraints on human behavior and choices.
eddie blake
@Citizen Alan: yeah, i dunno. i figure that number is skewed by the AIDS crisis. i figure there’d be a lot more boomers and gen xers identifying as bi or gay if so many hadn’t died.
eddie blake
@scav: seconded. i know a couple of gay guys who are REALLY down on bi people, like they’re not real; they don’t actually exist and are just afraid gay people who have found a different closet to hide in.
it’s fucked up.
Queen of Lurkers
Pretty sure Don Lemon is gay.
RevRick
@Chetan Murthy: I’m convinced that whether we want to believe it or not we all are white supremacists. It’s Europe’s most successful export. It shapes what we consider normal or beautiful or good. Back in the 40s Dr. Kenneth and Maisie Clarke conducted their famous experiment using black and white dolls with black children. I suspect the results would be similar today.
So, for me, the question is am I an unrepentant viral white supremacist, or one in denial, or one in repentance. I am working on it.
I think a lot of MAGA rage, and propensity to violence, stems from the fact that the premises of white male supremacy are being challenged by women, blacks, persons of color and the LGBQT community. It terrifies the right that the horrendous magic spell of white male supremacy that keeps us enthralled may be broken.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: I do think it’s strongly generational. Lots of gay and straight people in my parents’ generation believe bisexuals don’t exist. Nobody in my daughter’s generation seems to believe this; they find the notion that there wouldn’t be bi people ludicrous; they know lots of them.
Matt McIrvin
@RevRick: I also think a lot of people really recoil at the idea that they have internalized racist attitudes or feelings. It’s an insult to their character; you’re accusing them of being bad people. So then they have to justify the racist feelings they do have as being not racism but simple common sense.
RevRick
@trucmat: That punch in the gut proved to be a clarifying moral gift for you. I’m sure it felt awful, not only physically but also having one’s self revealed to oneself that way. A tough lesson. But clearly you have become a better person.
RevRick
@Matt McIrvin: You’re absolutely correct in your assessment. Whenever I preach on matters which would probably raise defensive hackles, I always try to talk only about my struggles and shortcomings.
For example, I referenced my shitty bullying behavior in my children’s message last Sunday (and my did one boy’s eyes widen). It was about forgiveness and what do you do when you never get a chance to apologize.
Alison Rose
An extra late thank-you to all the additional kind words.
scav
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s also a bit too much “Your lived reality is unimportant, and is, moreover, subservient to my political needs” for me to be wildly enthusiastic about it.