Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Not all heroes wear capes.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Republicans in disarray!

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread: Hit Dogs Holler; Lying Hounds Can’t Track

Monday Morning Open Thread: Hit Dogs Holler; Lying Hounds Can’t Track

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Give the GOP casting department credit: With his piggy little eyes and crooked smirk, Comer looks like the corrupt Southern sheriff in a 1970s movie. Or, y’know, ‘Tailgunner Joe’ McCarthy with his ‘list of 205 names… ‘

Hey, maybe Tucker has the informant stashed away at his Maine retreat!…

Hayes Brown, last week, at MSNBC — “The GOP has to keep pretending its Biden investigations are legit”:

… Let us take Comer at face value for just a moment. In this hypothetical world, maybe he really is concerned about “the national security implications of a Vice President’s or President’s (and candidates for such offices) immediate family members receiving millions of dollars from foreign nationals, foreign companies, or foreign governments without any oversight,” as his memo on Wednesday indicated. Tightening ethics laws surrounding the presidential family would be a net good and well within the scope of the Oversight Committee.

But when you think about it for more than two seconds you can see why there will be little appetite among the GOP to actually make these legislative changes. Even if they could make any new tweaks to the law retroactive to any point in time when Biden was in office and Hunter was operating his businesses that are under scrutiny, those changes would then also cover the Trump administration. That would be too embarrassing given how the Trump Organization operated as a funnel for foreign money to pour into the family’s bank accounts during those years.

Further, imagine that they were to pass said changes to the law, and Trump were to win in 2024. The last thing that Republicans would want is for more ammunition for ethics watchdogs to expose the ways that the Trump family has enriched itself off his presidency. Comer has already been clear that he has no interest in, for example, probing how Jared Kushner has raised billions from the Saudis for his venture capital project.

Without a chance to nail the Bidens and paint them as criminals, there’s no political upside to sell to a GOP base that’s already howling about the lack of arrests. But to keep the investigations going, Comer has to pretend that they have a purpose beyond political point-scoring. Dropping that pretense would leave the whole affair vulnerable to a court slapping down future committee subpoenas of Biden administration officials or Hunter himself.

That leads to the current situation where the political nature of their probes runs counter to their stated legislative goals. Rather than cobbling together a bipartisan bill that strengthens ethics laws and safeguards the presidency against influence peddling, Republicans just have to keep on acting like they’re on the precipice of exposing Biden as a crook. It’s embarrassing for them and a wasted opportunity to actually get something good done with their majority.

Yeah, like ‘getting something good done’ has been such a priority for the GOP any time in the last several decades.

Reader Interactions

232Comments

  1. 1.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Now what? Is this asshole Comer trying to imply that the nefarious mobsters in the Biden crime syndicate ‘took out’ the informer who was going to deliver the goods?

  2. 2.

    trnc

    Without a chance to nail the Bidens and paint them as criminals, there’s no political upside to sell to a GOP base that’s already howling about the lack of arrests. But to keep the investigations going, Comer has to pretend that they have a purpose beyond political point-scoring. Dropping that pretense would leave the whole affair vulnerable to a court slapping down future committee subpoenas of Biden administration officials or Hunter himself.

    They don’t care, and probably knew that going into this whole sham. There’s always a win at the end of the day for people whose biggest selling product is grievance with almost unlimited free advertising from friendly media outlets.

  3. 3.

    trnc

    @The Thin Black Duke: Now what? Is this asshole Comer trying to imply that the nefarious mobsters in the Biden crime syndicate ‘took out’ the informer who was going to deliver the goods?

    Sure, why not? Their audience will eat it up, and there’s zero evidence this wasn’t part of the plan all along.

  5. 5.

    p.a.

    It’s always fun pointing out to these mouthbreathers that they must now believe every Rethug in the W and tRump admins must be in on Dem corruption since they controlled the DoJ multiple years and nothing happened to the Clintons, Bidens, “election fraudsters” etc.

    Mention Occam’s Razor, and that the only other rational response is to admit all the claims are lies.

    Of course, as every fraudster knows, once marks realize they are marks, 90% double down because psychologically it’s easier to do than admit they’ve been used.

  6. 6.

    Chyron HR

    Damn bro I wonder why the president didn’t talk about White Supremacy in the 1980s.

  7. 7.

    MattF

    News media are, ah, reluctant to say out loud that Comer is lying. It might be helpful if every paragraph of every news story on the subject begins with the sentence ‘Comer is lying.’

  8. 8.

    Warblewarble

    A whistleblower must meet certain criteria , who does Comer have who meets these criteria?  There are procedures to follow as a whistleblower, have these been followed? I think we know the answer.

  9. 9.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    This seems to be totally bombing for the GOP. I’m not saying the Clintons ever broke the law but the campaign against them was successful in creating a whiff of corruption or wrongdoing that the media took seriously and that colored perception of them among normies. With the Bidens, nobody but the RWNJ true believers is in any way taking it seriously.

  10. 10.

    trnc

    @MattF: News media are, ah, reluctant to say out loud that Comer is lying. It might be helpful if every paragraph of every news story on the subject begins with the sentence ‘Comer is lying.’

    That depends on whom the media’s help is intended.

  11. 11.

    RandomMonster

    “She lives in Canada…You wouldn’t know her.”

    Is her last name ’Glass’?

  12. 12.

    Warblewarble

    Republican accusations are not meant to be provable, they are intended to be repeatable, which is where the media has been most obliging.

  13. 13.

    Keith P.

    Comer can try to abduct a watermelon to prove that Hunter Biden could have done it.

  14. 14.

    trnc

    @Warblewarble: Republican accusations are not meant to be provable, they are intended to be repeatable, which is where the media has been most obliging.

    This.

  18. 18.

    Tony Jay

    Today London hosts the annual National Conservatism conference, where the Edmund Burke Foundation gather together some of the swirling dregs leading lights of Global Wingnutopia to spew their usual far-Right bollox about low-taxes, cancel-culture and anything else they can pare down to 14 words.

    Amongst those speaking today are Tory MPs like Jacob Rees-Mogg, Avatar-Temporal for Those-Who-Dwell-Under-All-of-the-Bridges, and Miriam Cates, who is best described as a category three thundertwat and what Marge Greene thinks she’s going to see whenever she looks into a mirror, only with an English accent.

    Moggtroll has already admitted that the recent imposition of photo-ID requirements for UK elections was an attempt by the Tories to ‘gerrymander’ elections that may actually have impacted most on their own elderly voters, while Cates has made an early stab at completing her Wingnut BIngo card by bitching about ‘Cultural Marxism’, the need for more (white) children, and the overarching threat to Western Civilisation coming from Woke Liberalism.

    You can see why wits have taken to styling this as the ‘Nat-C Party’ on parade, and only despair at the deputy political editor for the FTF Guardian describing Cates’ Orbanesque rant as “quite an interesting political speech in that, agree or not, it is intellectually coherent and knows what it wants to say.”

    But only if you ignore the antisemitic dog-whistling part, of course, which they will, because to get on in the British Media you have to remember that antisemitism is only a problem on and for the Left, while for the Right it’s as natural and unthreatening as the changing of the seasons and the tides of the sea.

    Don’t be stupid

      Be a smarty

      Come and whitewash

      The Nat-C Party.

  20. 20.

    Geminid

    The official tallies for the Turkish elections are expected to be released soon, at 3pm local time (8am Eastern US time). President Erdogan leads challenger Kemal Kilicdoroglu by ~5 points but probably will fall short of 50%, setting up a runoff election May 28. Erdogan is favored in the runoff, as third place finisher Sinan Ogan ran on a conservative, nationalist platform and a majority of his voters are expected to choose Erdogan over the more liberal Kilicdaroglu.

    The tally was close in Istanbul, with Erdogan holding Kilicdaroglu to a 48-46% lead. Kilicdaroglu racked up large majorities in predominately Kurdish cities. The Kurdish-based HDP won a number of Assembly seats in Istanbul as well.

    Turnout may have exceeded 85% of eligible voters, which I believe would be a record.

  21. 21.

    Shalimar

    @trnc: Their audience isn’t eating it up this time.  They’re frustrated by 30 years of investigations of horrible evil with no prosecutions to show for it.

  22. 22.

    Princess

    Just read Josh Marshall teeeting that Paul Gosar recruits aides straight from neo-Nazi online culture and there’s zero pushback or condemnation of him in the GOP so I’d say Biden’s right.

  23. 23.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: In the election for the 600-member National Assembly, Erdogan’s AKP and its coalition partner are expected to win a majority, albeit a smaller one than before. That may give Erdogan an additional edge in the runoff if voters decide they do not want a divided government.

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    Even if they could make any new tweaks to the law retroactive to any point in time when Biden was in office and Hunter was operating his businesses that are under scrutiny, those changes would then also cover the Trump administration. That would be too embarrassing given how the Trump Organization operated as a funnel for foreign money to pour into the family’s bank accounts during those years.

    Easy solution: they just write the law so that it only applies to anyone named “Hunter Biden,” or his close relatives. They should also include a section which states something like “this Law shall not apply to Donald Trump — the GREATEST President EVER, heck, the greatest person ever, except maybe for Jeebus — nor to any member of his family.”

    Problem solved.

  29. 29.

    Mel

    @MomSense:

    Yes, and they seem so frantic, just throwing out humdrum conspiracy theory garbage as fast as they possibly can, with the resulting lies so clearly phony and yet at the same time so boring and mundane that it seems like they’re being generated by hungover interns who are crammed into a musty backroom somewhere, have lost heart for their shitty cause, and are just phoning it in at this point.

    I guess they blew all their “creative” lie energy on the Immortal Kennedys and alien pedophile pizza parlors, etc.

     

    Your comment on WaterGirl’s Mothers Day post really touched me. I sent a response to your comment in that thread.

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    I’m sure if you asked the average white person in Alabama in 1955, they wouldn’t say white supremacism was the biggest threat either.

  31. 31.

    Matt McIrvin

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: The biggest danger for Biden isn’t this conspiracy crap, it’s the Democratic base feeling bored and unenthusiastic about him. But if Trump is his opponent, which is looking increasingly likely, negative partisanship may do the trick of firing people up all by itself.

  32. 32.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Matt McIrvin: I feel about Trump the way I did about the January 6 footage when the House committee showed it. I remembered what happened, of course. I knew it was bad. But the video still shocked me. I remember how bad Trump was, but seeing or hearing him in the present still shocks me. I think a lot of voters might be like that.

  34. 34.

    Quinerly

    Good Morning! Just wanted to report after so much interest yesterday in one thread that Miguel and I had a very successful day stirring and combining together the substance to place between the joints of my new flagstone patio on the southwest corner. I love the device that we plugged into an extension cord that rotated around, dare I say, “stirred,” the substance that we blended in 3 parts for the joints. 3 more areas to go, and I will probably be gifting this awesome rotating device with the Teflon drum to Miguel as part of his bonus.

    Thanks to many of you yesterday for your support and interest.😉

  37. 37.

    catclub

    @Hoodie: ​
     under Obama they worried about something something under Abandoned Walmarts in Texas. Some military operation.

  38. 38.

    Jay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s chemtrails,………

    No, but really, it really isn’t Biden, it’s the Rethugs at State level FAFO. That’s what’s driving engagement. Most of the people I talk to don’t have a clue about the job numbers, or that inflation is down,

    but they damn well know who is trying to grab their or their loved ones uterus,

    or wants to look in their kids pants,……

  39. 39.

    Quinerly

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    But is it truly better to stir the substance or stir the pot (that where the substance is contained)? That question could dog us for years to come…..

  41. 41.

    Soprano2

    This year in the Missouri legislature Republicans’ biggest enemy was other Republicans. One of them did a last-minute filibuster in the Senate to try to get his bill to slash property taxes passed (with no idea how local governments would make up the lost revenue, BTW), which meant that their attempt to gut the process for getting a constitutional amendment on the ballot failed! They have admitted that this means that a constitutional amendment protecting the right to reproductive services, including abortion, will probably get on the ballot and then pass. All the proponents of it have to do is sue to get their petitions approved by state government, which is currently having a disagreement over how much the measures would cost the state. The AG says $12 billion, the state treasurer says $0. You can see the conflict here. I actually wonder if this is their way of keeping it off the ballot. ETA – don’t worry, they managed to pass plenty of horrible laws regarding trans people, it’s gross.

    On another note, the symphony here had its last concert of the season Saturday night, and they saved the best for last. It was billed as a night with the Spyres Family. If you know about opera I assume you know who Michael Spyres is. I had heard people talk about him, but I had never heard him perform before, or any of these people for that matter. He and his family used to perform locally; they called themselves The Hillbilly VonTrapps. OMG, that concert was to die for! They did popular arias from operas, they did songs from musicals, they did comedy with the music and even a song from a Mel Brooks movie! It was AMAZING. One of the benefits of living here is that I got to see this concert for less than $50; in any large city you’d probably have to pay at least $200 for a ticket. The orchestra conductor told me he and his wife paid $300 in Paris to hear Michael.

  43. 43.

    Jay

    @Quinerly:

    missed that entirely,

    teflon drum?

    Cool.

    Wasn’t there a US President once coated in teflon?

    I understand it’s a serious health hazard if over heated.

  48. 48.

    SFAW

    @Jay:

    I got a kick out of his/her profile:

    Globalist – Head of illuminati, Deep State & Bilderberg – 5G vaccine creator – Klaus Schwab mentor – Agents: Bill Gates, Soros, Rockefeller, Rothschild

    I thought the “5G vaccine creator” was a nice touch

  49. 49.

    dave319

     

     

    @Matt McIrvin:

    “Bored and unenthusiastic”?  Hmmmm… from what echo chamber could that sweeping assumption have sprung onto The Base’ eager lips, I wonder? Cokie Roberts’ Ring Muscle, to rule them all!

    “Well! My hairdresser was talking to the DoorDash guy about how totes boring and old and dunked in Afghanistan fail-stink Senility Depends Biden is since, like, forever? And Minh the nail girl? None of us thought she could even speak English and she said, “Dem votahs all go zzz you betcha long time!”

    However does polevault the bullshit consesnsus even work? I gues we’ll never know.

  50. 50.

    dave319

     

     

    @Matt McIrvin:

    “Bored and unenthusiastic”?  Hmmmm… from what echo chamber could that sweeping assumption have sprung onto The Base’ eager lips, I wonder?

    Cokie Roberts’ Ring Muscle, to rule them all!

    “Well! My hairdresser was talking to the DoorDash guy about how totes boring and old and dunked in Afghanistan fail-stink Senility Depends Biden is since, like, forever? And Minh the nail girl? None of us thought she could even speak English and she said, “Dem votahs all go zzz you betcha long time!”

    However does “polevault the bullshit consensus”even work? I guess we’ll never know.

  51. 51.

    Quinerly

    @Jay:

    Somewhat odd AM thread yesterday. The Teflon part really wasn’t that important. I am assuming that the drum of this awesome rotating device that blends substances for patio joints is coated in a Teflon like substance. The substance that we stirred did not stick to the drum. Clean up was very easy. I was impressed, but I am not tempted to mix my morning eggs, milk, and cheese for an omlette in it, though.

  53. 53.

    Jeffro

    Good morning folks.

    If anyone is in need of a chuckle to start their morning, well, Tim Scott Is In a Better Position Than You Might Think.

    (um yeah, sure, and any day now Sanna Marin’s gonna call me up for a date, too)

     

    Scott is in a better position than many others. Former vice president Mike Pence permanently burned bridges with the GOP rank and file when he certified Biden’s victory. Haley’s favorability ratings have dropped since she entered the race. Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson is a Reagan-era relic that can’t see how outdated he is. Vivek Ramaswamy looks like yet another rich guy clawing desperately for validation in politics. Other potential contenders are even less inspiring.

    Scott, by contrast, enjoys broad support within his party. If DeSantis continues to lose ground, Scott could mop up the moderates* who see the Florida governor as the most plausible Trump challenger. And if the 76-year-old Trump stumbles before finishing the race, Scott has positioned himself as a less controversial alternative to DeSantis. If Scott manages his campaign’s budget well, he could stay in the race for a while, waiting for his chance.

    Scott isn’t a front-runner — and he might never become one. But he’s in the third-best position of any candidate. The fact that he rose to that level through optimism and compromise in a party that [only] rewards negativity and belligerence is no small feat.

    *excuse me…”moderates”?  Say whaaa now?

    Anyway, one could parse this drivel forever (did y’all know that it was Pence who “burned bridges” with trumpov and the GOP?  oh my) but it’s clear that the Republican Party and its various flacks are still unable to deal with the monster that they’ve created…

    …and have no strategy whatsoever to deal with him, except to hope that he keels over sooner rather than later.

  56. 56.

    Stacy

    The FBI briefed data centers at the beginning of this month that Atomwaffen Division and The Base are behind some of the railroad derailments and are targeting electrical grids and data centers as part of their white supremacist accelerationist goals.

  57. 57.

    Tony Jay

    @Jeffro:

      And any day now Sanna Marin’s gonna call me up for a date, too

    Well she is single now, so, y’know, get your profile back on Finndr and reach out.

  60. 60.

    Jay

    @Quinerly:

    here, British Columbia, joint compounds are  plate compacted, (big ass vibrator) dry. When wetted, they turn from a sand like mixture to “polysand”, (water based epoxy and sand),

    PITA if you are renting out a plate compactor.

    Can’t wash it off, get’s everywhere, including the air filter, have to use cleaning vinigar, (18%) and a pressure washer.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Stacy:

    are behind some of the railroad derailments

    Wow.

    I’m a little concerned about the normalization and promotion of extrajudicial executions by center Right pundits employed by the NYTimes right now- I don’t have time to add Right wing terrorists who derail trains.

    New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion
    What if Penny had stood down and done nothing at all? Would everyone — including Neely — have emerged from that subway car unscathed?” asks @DavidAFrench. “We can’t know for certain, and that lack of certainty creates the conditions for violence.”
    I don’t know that I have time to add “Right wing terrorists derailing trains” to my list.

    It’s now okay to kill people because of what they might do. I don’t know- given the Right’s penchant for shooting at kids playing hide and seek I don’t think the Right wing pundits at the NYTimes really want this to be the norm.

  64. 64.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Jeffro:

    and have no strategy whatsoever to deal with him

    Which is ridiculous, because it’s right in front of them.  “Trump failed you when you needed him most.”  Trump was president and couldn’t Stop The Steal.  You could roast him alive on the shit he promised and didn’t deliver, with ‘stopping the Democrats from cheating’ as Exhibit A.  My god, Republican politicians are pathetic weaklings.

  65. 65.

    Gretchen

    @Soprano2: I heard that at least one Kansas City, Missouri OB/GYN is telling her patients to go to a Kansas ER if they think they are having a miscarriage; MO can’t be relied on to give proper care because of its abortion ban. That’s certainly what I would do.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    “We can’t know for certain, and that lack of certainty creates the conditions for violence.”

    So unless they get absolutely assured safety every minute of every day they will kill preemptively?

    No one gets asssured safety! There’s no guarantee like that- not anywhere! If this is the standard they’re going to be killing a lot of fucking people because every single thing we do carries risk.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I wonder if libs could get away with killing random white guys because they were uncertain whether they were domestic terrorists.

    Actually, I don’t.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    About 2 years ago I had a very upset Right winger standing at the receptionists area in my office, ranting about his legal issue. There is a sign on the door that they can’t bring weapons in here but I could tell he was carrying under his jean jacket so I told him I knew he had a gun and to get out and he got more upset, but I walked him to the door talking and out the door into the parking lot.

    Under NYTimes pundit norms I should have just blown his head off. I must have assured safety!

    If this is what they want they can’t operate in the world. No one is “safe”.

  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    @Warblewarble: Why are we only just now talking about the comet that crashed to earth in Wyoming yesterday?

    We should have been talking about that comet crash in Wyoming 40 years before it happened!

  71. 71.

    Baud

    @SFAW: They’re operating a kind of protection racket, which when scaled up to the societal level, is essentially how feudalism got started.

  73. 73.

    Betty Cracker

    I’ve wondered sometimes what would happen if a person saw an angry-looking man armed with an AR-15 in an open carry state approaching a school, outdoor concert, movie theater, parade, etc. Given the prevalence of mass shootings, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for the observer to be in fear of imminent death or peril for themselves and others. So would the observer have the right to stand their ground and preemptively take out the armed man? For the sake of this thought experiment, imagine everyone involved is white. 

  82. 82.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:It’s now okay to kill people because of what they might do.

    Unfortunately, that’s their take.

    It’s been that way since the first “murder anyone who scares you stand your ground” law passed.

    It’s odd that justifiable homicide could be made justifiable due to the killer’s perception of threat, rather than a potential perpetrator actually brandishing a weapon, shooting at you, etc.

  86. 86.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Jeffro:

    It’s often occurred to me that somebody could try to engineer a situation where it appeared they were in danger from someone else and “stood their ground” because they feared for their life. I’m sure somebody, somewhere has tried it.

    And I don’t think it was some unintended consequence by the Republican sponsors

  87. 87.

    Chris

    Give the GOP casting department credit: With his piggy little eyes and crooked smirk, Comer looks like the corrupt Southern sheriff in a 1970s movie.

    Been saying for years that half the public figures in the Republican Party look exactly like the kind of asshole Hannibal, Face, BA and Murdock used to have to beat the shit out of once a week.

  88. 88.

    Soprano2

    @Gretchen: Yep, my niece was sent home with advice to call her OB on Monday when she went to the ER on a Friday for a possible miscarriage. Luckily she was OK, but I was outraged by the lack of care she got. She said she never even saw a doctor or a nurse, just sat in the waiting room for hours!

  91. 91.

    There go two miscreants

    @Quinerly: Laughing at your comments this morning. Apparently the discussion yesterday became more intense after I left to do other things! (I could see the currents in that direction though.)

  92. 92.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Geminid:

    That’s disappointing in light of the hyperinflation Turkey is experiencing as well as the fallout from the earthquake a few months ago

  94. 94.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker:  it still depends on whether or not the shooter is a liberal.  If so, they denied the gun nut his right to carry his weapon of mass death wherever he chose and should be hung.  If not…it would still depend upon who was more liberal, the shooter or the gun nut?

    Now…if one trumpie gun nut took out another trumpie gun nut under these circumstances, that should cause wingnut heads all across America to explode.

  95. 95.

    Chris

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Do you even need to?  If there are no cameras, all you need to do is shoot somebody.  Then claim that he was attacking or threatening you.  Who’s going to contradict you?  The dead body?

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    @Quinerly:“He was the leader of the free world again  in my mind, I had my white supremacist paradise back again, ahhhhh” a trump confidant told us gleefully.

    That’s why they’ve gone berserk at the state level, y’all know that, right?  They were just about there, man, just about there, and then mean ol’ Joey Corvette Guy took it away from them.

  97. 97.

    Cameron

    @Betty Cracker: In Florida?  Nonono.  Absolutely positively bro would be within his rights to open carry the firearm of his choice.  Except if he were in drag – then it’s sorta your duty to put him down before he does any of that woke grooming CRT shit.

  99. 99.

    Jinchi

    @Betty Cracker: ​  So would the observer have the right to stand their ground and preemptively take out the armed man? For the sake of this thought experiment, imagine everyone involved is white.

    This is the obvious flaw in the NRA’s “stand your ground” argument but it’s pretty clear, given the reality of how these laws are enforced, that the ones these laws protect are based on social status.

    You have to live the lifestyle (don’t get caught with a rainbow sticker on your moped) and you have to really mean it ( the other guy needs to end up dead).​

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @SFAW:

    NY’ers aren’t even subject to unusual levels of violence compared with some southern cities. They’re pretty safe! I don’t know that anyone can absolutely assure their safety, anymore than anyone else in the country.

    Also- would someone tell the NYTimes that lots of people outside of NYC use public transportation? Their insular, parochial belief that they are the only people in the world who ride w/strangers is silly.

    They’re really not that special.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    This seems to be totally bombing for the GOP. I’m not saying the Clintons ever broke the law but the campaign against them was successful in creating a whiff of corruption or wrongdoing that the media took seriously and that colored perception of them among normies. With the Bidens, nobody but the RWNJ true believers is in any way taking it seriously.

     

    Got to look at the context. The context of going after Hunter Biden when your azz was silent as Dolt45 and his entire crooked family used the government as their own personal piggy bank.

  102. 102.

    Scout211

    @Quinerly: Trump needs to be coached and coddled and his ego stroked before he answers reporters questions? So not surprising. But 🤮.

    This  is not surprising either. Yet, so very 🤮.

    Former President Trump has said he’ll bring back his former national security adviser Michael Flynn if he wins another four years in the White House in 2024.

    “I will say, General Flynn, he’s some general. He’s some man. He took abuse like nobody could have handled, and he came out bigger, better, stronger than ever before,” Trump said via phone to the “ReAwaken America” rally at Trump National Doral Miami, according to a Rolling Stone report.

    “He’s a leader, and you just stay wealthy and healthy and well, and everything. I want you to have great lives and, General, you just have to stay healthy because we’re bringing you back. We’re gonna bring you back,” the former president said.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve wondered sometimes what would happen if a person saw an angry-looking man armed with an AR-15 in an open carry state approaching a school, outdoor concert, movie theater, parade, etc.

    Execution of the gun-wearing Righty is absolutely justified under the NYTimes pundit norm. I’m preventing a mass shooting!

  104. 104.

    rikyrah

    @Tony Jay:

     

    Moggtroll has already admitted that the recent imposition of photo-ID requirements for UK elections was an attempt by the Tories to ‘gerrymander’ elections that may actually have impacted most on their own elderly voters, while Cates has made an early stab at completing her Wingnut BIngo card by bitching about ‘Cultural Marxism’, the need for more (white) children, and the overarching threat to Western Civilisation coming from Woke Liberalism.

     

    So, they’re trying the photo-id bullshyt over there?

  105. 105.

    Quinerly

    @There go two miscreants:

    Who would have thunk?

    BTW. Who is this frosty fred guy? He rocks but not to be confused with a stone product. (Rocks usually are a stone product that can be ground and sometimes used in a blend that is stirred together in an electrical device that turns….My blend yesterday did not contain discernable rocks…..just saying…..)

    I’ll see myself out.

    More yard work and gardening in the high desert today for me. Have a great day!

  106. 106.

    rikyrah

    About the Florida anti-immigration law.
    I honestly do believe that the design was to arrest the undocumented, throw them into Florida’s for-profit prisons and then have them do the work.

    The undocumented getting the Hell up outta Florida before the law goes into place has thrown A wrench in those plans.

    As for using the present prison population… Once again, I refer you to Alabama and what happened to them when they tried using prison labor after they passed one of these same types of laws.

  107. 107.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I’m old enough to remember way back in ’09 when DHS reported to Congress about the rising threat of White Nationalists/Domestic Terrorists and the GOP threw such a hissy fit that Janet Napolitano ended up apologizing for it.  White Americans (and especially Conservatives) have always been rather touchy about anyone mentioning the ugly, but painfully obvious truth of White Supremacist Terrorists/Orgs in America.  Sadly, the media aids and abets the problem, in general.  A few reporters will actually go there with deep-dive reporting on hate groups, but most media outlets will shrug them off or try to bend over backwards to Both Sides the issue by parroting myths about Antifa.  Even today it’s a fight just to get the real and deadly history of the Klan accurately portrayed in our damn history textbooks.  US history courses should spend at least a week on the arc of domestic terrorism aimed at Native-Americans, Black People, Mexicans, Chinese, Civil Rights volunteers, Labor Organizers, LGBTQ People etc.  It’s something that every student/American really should know about.  Most Americans have no idea just how long and bad this problem has been around and how prominent it has been for this country.  But way too many people (including Dems) would object under concerns that it wouldn’t be appropriate for their kids to learn.  Even in the realm of mainstream art, tv, movies, shows like The Watchmen, Lovecraft Country and Them get a whole lot of shit just for depicting the Tulsa/Greenwood massacre and horrific racist terror inflicted on Black People (Them).  Heck, even when I mention the superb documentary series Exterminate All The Brutes, by Raoul Peck on HBO, very few people ever bothered to watch it.  We have a real problem with collective denial, fragility and ambivalence, when it comes to this stuff.  It’s no wonder that the knee-jerk reaction by Conservatives, the Media, Centrists etc. is to either stomp their feet and throw a tantrum or shrug, whenever the topic is raised.

  108. 108.

    Baud

    @rikyrah:

    Once again, I refer you to Alabama and what happened to them when they tried using prison labor after they passed one of these same types of laws.

     
    What happened to Alabama?

  109. 109.

    Anyway

    @rikyrah:

    About the Florida anti-immigration law.
    I honestly do believe that the design was to arrest the undocumented, throw them into Florida’s for-profit prisons and then have them do the work.

    I agree. This is a big Rethug wish-list item. They want the low-cost imported labor but eliminate any means of legalization for the workers and their families. Instead this way they get bodies for for-profit prisons (which MucketyMuck Gen John Kelly was a big investor/board member of) and low-cost labor that can’t answer back and don’t have a choice. win-win.

  110. 110.

    Chris

    @rikyrah:

    Sarah Taber had a decent thread a few years back about how she fully expected prison labor to be increasingly used as a way to turn illegal immigrants into a captive work force.

  111. 111.

    Kay

    Six solid months of wailing from the free speech warriors when Yale law students would not bow and scrape before a federal judge and nothing about any of this:

    Nathan Goldwag 
    @GoldwagNathan

    If it seems bad that states are investigating teachers for showing a movie with a gay character, please remember that none of these kids go to Harvard or Yale, and therefore they don’t actually matter that much.

  112. 112.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: There are still many people in this country for whom New York City is perpetually stuck in 1977.

    NYC’s public transit system really is playing on a whole other level from most systems in the US, but New Yorkers can be incredibly parochial, rhapsodizing about floppy pizza slices or stale buttered rolls from a cart as if they were unique gifts to civilization.

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    @rikyrah: It’s certainly a tactic with a long history.

    Right now, my impression is that most profiteering from prison labor happens in the course of running the prisons themselves. But that’s now. Certainly wasn’t in the past, might not be forever.

  114. 114.

    Chris

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    I’m old enough to remember way back in ’09 when DHS reported to Congress about the rising threat of White Nationalists/Domestic Terrorists and the GOP threw such a hissy fit that Janet Napolitano ended up apologizing for it.

    There’s lots of ways the nineties were a watershed moment, but the way Republicans decided to go all-in on embracing far-right militias as oppressed and misunderstood patriots is one of the biggies.  Leads directly to 1/6.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    There are still many people in this country for whom New York City is perpetually stuck in 1977.

    That may be true but should it be true of NYers and the NY media? I mean, Jesus Christ. Can they put any of this in context or do we all have to pretend to believe what they believe?
    If the demand is total assurance of safety, I got news for them- no one gets that. They’ll have to remain inside with the doors locked, forever.

  116. 116.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    New Yorkers can be incredibly parochial, rhapsodizing about floppy pizza slices or stale buttered rolls from a cart as if they were unique gifts to civilization. 

    LOL. This is true.

  118. 118.

    Geminid

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Some gun owners are fantasists who dream of being Charles Bronson’s character in Death Wish” or even Robert DeNiro’s character in Taxi Driver. That’s one reason I think the new permitless concealed carry laws are so dangerous.

    I think a lot of other people saw this as well, because polling in Texas showed a solid majority against. These laws probably only pass because of gerrymandering state legislatures.

  119. 119.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Chris: The Oklahoma City bombing and the reaction to it knocked back the movement for a little while. But then 9/11 came along and everyone decided terrorists were all Muslim foreigners again, and that fed into the eventual revival.

  120. 120.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s just such bad, sloppy thinking. CENTRAL to this incident is the fact that the man who put the other man in a chokehold and killed him did not know that the homeless man had a criminal record. He didn’t know! He couldn’t have been acting on that! He acted SOLELY on the behavior he witnessed on the train.

    So the NYTimes pundit has to evaluate the situation the same way. He can’t add to the facts. 

    They’re poor quality, these people. They turn out cheap, facile junk.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s Trayvon Martin again. The media are trying the victim. The defense will do the same thing. The trial won’t be about the aggressor at all- it will be about how bad the victim is and the victim is dead so we won’t hear from him. I said after the Zimmerman trial that the best thing one can do is kill the person one has attacked so the victim can’t testify.

  122. 122.

    Geminid

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The inflation issue certainly must have hurt Erdogan, but not enough to knock him out. He’s much more popular in Turkiye than he is in the West.

    Reports are that Erdogan and the AKP did not have a significant vote dropoff in the areas hit by the earthquake. People may have cut him some slack because the 7.8-Richter Scale quake was exceptionally severe even for a country that experieces a fair amount of earthquakes.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    @Kay: The jury and jury instructions will be different, and there’s video, but you are correct that it’ll be the defense strategy.

  124. 124.

    sdhays

    @Betty Cracker: Honestly, it’s reasonable to fear for your safety if you see anyone in this country with a firearm designed after 1900 (pulling that year out of…the air). I guess we need to kill them all in order to be assured of our safety. Oh well.

    // (in case it wasn’t obvious)

  125. 125.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I’ve seen people having full-on screaming psychotic breaks on public transit, here in metro Boston. I’m sure many of us have. I cannot imagine just assuming that this person needs to be put in a chokehold.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    Yeah, like ‘getting something good done’ has been such a priority for the GOP any time in the last several decades.

    Not once in my over 7 decades.

    I’ve never once seen them do anything that relates to bettering anything except their donors pocketbooks and therefore theirs as well.

  128. 128.

    The Thin Black Duke

    “The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.”

  129. 129.

    Matt McIrvin

    @JPL: The fact that it was in Oklahoma City helped it blow back on the extreme right, I think. That if the capital of a super duper red state is subject to that kind of attack, no one is safe.

  131. 131.

    Suzanne

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve wondered sometimes what would happen if a person saw an angry-looking man armed with an AR-15 in an open carry state approaching a school, outdoor concert, movie theater, parade, etc. Given the prevalence of mass shootings, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for the observer to be in fear of imminent death or peril for themselves and others. So would the observer have the right to stand their ground and preemptively take out the armed man? For the sake of this thought experiment, imagine everyone involved is white. 

    Mr. Suzanne had this occur at a school at which he worked. The school is across the street from a park, and a white man was brandishing a gun in the park. They locked down the school.

    But yes, this is why this is corrosive. Living in fear makes people make bad choices. Look at Pistorius. Even under the most generous interpretation of the events that transpired…. he has to live the rest of his life knowing that he killed his girlfriend. That is a terrible way to live.

  133. 133.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I mean, if the person applying the chokehold now says he didn’t intend to kill the homeless man can we all agree that he’s completely incompetent at restraining people and probably shouldn’t intervene in these situations?

    They restrain people freaking out in the courthouse at least once every couple of months. They don’t kill them. Not ever. Zero casualties.

  134. 134.

    Chris

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s less the movement itself and more the amount of sympathy it got from powerful people (admittedly, also knocked back a little after Oklahoma City).

    There was a brief period in the seventies and eighties when violent far-right extremists actually were fair game; Reagan’s FBI cracked down on several militias and nobody gave a shit.  But after Waco and Ruby Ridge (or more honestly, after Bill Clinton’s election and the subsequent Great Republican Losing-Of-Shit), it was over.

  135. 135.

    Chris

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Nowadays they wouldn’t even care about that.  It’s a city, after all, and you know what they’re like.  You’d get some sneers about the people’s republic of Oklahoma City amirite? and that’s all.

  136. 136.

    scav

    Another interesting thread comparison.  Some are are free to kill at the mere perception of less than perfect assured safety while others are sitting unserved in hospital waiting rooms actually potentially dying and not saving their lives is the new moral high road if a heartbeat is detectable.  Clearly in their world view, only a very select few own the ground it is permitted to stand on.

  137. 137.

    Josie

    @Matt McIrvin: ​ I remember years ago visiting my son in New York and riding on the subway. A man a few seats from us got into an argument with several women. They were all loud and irritating. Suddenly the man started shouting that he had a gun and was going to kill everyone. My son and I held hands tightly and visualized dropping to the floor at the slightest movement on the man’s part. It was only a few minutes until we reached our destination, but it seemed like hours. Then the car stopped, the doors opened and everyone filed out. I can still feel the terror of those few moments, but thankfully no one died.​
    ​
    ​

  138. 138.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Great thread by Thomas Zimmer:

    It’s really hard to overstate how acutely dangerous this is: All strands of the Right – leading Republicans, the media machine, the reactionary intellectual sphere, the conservative base, the donor class – are openly and aggressively embracing rightwing vigilante violence.

    …

    It’s crucial to emphasize how this open embrace of vigilante violence functions in the broader context of the political conflict – it serves a specific purpose as part of the reactionary counter-mobilization against multiracial, pluralistic democracy.

    ..

    America is built on a social order that gives some people – white men, specifically – the power to use whatever form of violence they deem necessary to “defend” themselves against all threats from “others,” real and perceived. The Right wants to preserve that order.

  139. 139.

    Ruckus

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It doesn’t shock me, I’m only 3 yrs younger than SFB and I read about him when he was just a rich POS screwing his siblings out of their share of their daddies profits off of the less well off who rented the crappy apartments he owned.

  140. 140.

    jimmiraybob

    “@JamesComer’s failure continues…”

    Not necessarily.

    I assume that everyone realizes that the new narrative will be, “Biden crime family disappears patriot whistleblower. Search for body continues.” And the base will eat it up.

  141. 141.

    Baud

    @UncleEbeneezer: I hate to distract from the important points made in that thread, but this type of writing really gets on my nerves, especially when it happens in rapid succession rather than just occasionally:

    It’s really hard to overstate how…

     

    It’s crucial to emphasize how…

  142. 142.

    Citizen Alan

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I am pretty sure that has already happened. Person A breaks a restraining order and it comes onto the property of his ex wife. Person B, the ex wife’s current boyfriend, stands on the front porch with a baseball bat and tells him to leave. Person A, now “afraid for his life,” pulls out a gun and fatally shoots person B, claiming his right to stand his ground while on the. Property of someone he was threatening with violence!. He was acquitted. In fact, I’m not sure if he was even charched.

  143. 143.

    Quinerly

    @JPL:

    The only good thing about Oklahoma now is the Bob Dylan Center in Tulsa.

    Plus, Fred Harris from the past. He now lives in Corrales, NM. I spent an afternoon hanging out with him in Perea’s Tijuana Bar in 2018. I didn’t have a clue at first until one gal in his group cued me in. Being a Political Science major in the 1970’s I knew of him but didn’t know it was that Fred Harris I was drinking with. I just checked. Still kicking.

    Cool guy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_R._Harris

  144. 144.

    gene108

    @Kay:

    My brother has been living in NYC for over 25 years. I go there often.

    People carrying on in subway cars isn’t normal, not really common, but happens often enough that people sort of tune it out. If you feel the street preacher or homeless guy is a threat (maybe they made eye contact) switching cars or getting off at the next stop and waiting for the next train are options.

    If NYT opinion people sullied themselves with actually using public transit, they might’ve noticed this.

  145. 145.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jeffro:

    It’s odd that justifiable homicide could be made justifiable due to the killer’s perception of threat, rather than a potential perpetrator actually brandishing a weapon, shooting at you, etc.

    Wasn’t that pretty much the Rittenhouse verdict? He was afraid those unarmed guys might take his gun from him and might use it against him, so he was justified in killing them in self-defense?

  146. 146.

    Citizen Alan

    @Kay: The most annoying thing about the Kyle Rittenhouse nonsense was that there actyally was “a good guy with a gun” who didn’t take the shot when he had it and instead got wounded in the arm for his trouble. And then vilified by the conservative press for screwing up their narrative! If that guy had killed Rittenhouse first, He would have been a hero of the NRA, and Rittenhouse himself would have been painted as some kind of left wing, Biden loving, antifa terrorist despite all evidence to the contrary.

  147. 147.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @gene108: I was honestly impressed by the tumblers who did their act while the subway was bouncing, rattling, turning corners, etc. I gave them money.

    There’s no shortage of crazy people on the subways and some of them do start to annoy other passengers. Nobody ever died from that though, and nobody seems inclined to murder them.

  148. 148.

    Kay

    @gene108:

     

    Read this, written by one the Paper of Records public intellectuals:

    “We can’t know for certain, and that lack of certainty creates the conditions for violence.”

     

    What? Unless he is given absolute certainty he will become violent? This is a license to kill people. It’s not a standard at all.
    I was not 100% certain of my safety when I walked the enraged, gun-hiding Right winger out of my office but it never fucking OCCURRED to me that I could kill him.
    Also- this is in the context of paranoid Right wingers shooting hide and go seekers and people going to the wrong door. “They were uncertain! What did you expect?”

  149. 149.

    Tony Jay

    @rikyrah:

    Yup. Absolutely no evidence that it was necessary, no evidence of any fraud that didn’t involve Tories, no attempt whatsoever to provide ID to those who didn’t have it, crazy rules that accepted ID available to likely Tory demographics while rejecting ID common amongst non-Tory voting groups.

    You know, exactly the same techniques used to crop the vote in Red States, for exactly the same reason.

    The problem they hit appears to be that even normally Tory voting demographics don’t want to vote for them. Making Moggie sad.

  150. 150.

    BC in Illinois

    The sad saga of James Comer and the invisible witness brings a family story to mind.

    Many years ago, daughter number two complained to her mother, that her older sister had more imaginary friends than she did.

    Mrs. BC said that was one of the easier conflicts to resolve.

  151. 151.

    Citizen Alan

    @Anyway: It’s like I keep saying!I really do think the end game is to bring back slavery in some fashion. Mike Fucking Huckabee actually floated the idea on his radio show that, under the 13th amendment, it would still be legal to sell prison inmate to the highest bidder!

  152. 152.

    cain

    @Soprano2: One of the most curious things about these red states is that no matter how bad it gets they still will vote Republican. Take Kansas, Brownback by all measurements was not a great governor and they tried to apply the economic policy and it failed and the economy has been tanking to the point that they had to reverse it.

    The voters never punished them.

  153. 153.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @jimmiraybob: Yep. Just read a Wonkette article on how Maria Bartirona was temporarily stunned by the stupidity of Comer’s “we have a whistleblower but we lost him” line.

    But rapidly recovered in real time to pivot to “that sounds even more serious, that they’re killing off the whistleblowers. Better keep this story front and center.”

  156. 156.

    Kay

    @Citizen Alan:

    NYC already spends a TON on security. How much will they spend to guarantee absolute safety for every person who lives there? It’s a ludicrous demand. It can never be met, which, according to the NYTimes, means we’ll have extrajudicial executions daily, I guess.

    The New York Police Department (NYPD)’s uniformed officer overtime costs make up the largest share of overtime over-spending. Through February 2023, NYPD has spent $472 million on uniformed overtime, already exceeding its $374 million budget for FY 2023 by $98 million. The Comptroller’s Office projects that NYPD uniformed overtime will reach approximately $740 million in FY 2023, nearly double the amount budgeted.

    That’s the OVER budget amount. This is the budget:

    As updated in February 2022, the NYPD budget, including both the department’s operating and central expenses for fringe benefits, pensions, and debt service, is $10.9 billion in fiscal year 2022

  157. 157.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    They’re really not that special.

    No, they are not. I’ve ridden the L in Chicago, trains in Boston, I ride the Metro trains here in Los Angeles on a semi regular basis nearly 50 miles each way. It’s easier, often faster and far cheaper than driving with gas at over $4.50/gal, even in a car that gets great milage.

  158. 158.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @jimmiraybob: Yep. Just read a Wonkette article on how Maria Bartirona was temporarily stunned by the stupidity of Comer’s “we have a whistleblower but we lost him” line.

    But rapidly recovered in real time to pivot to “that sounds even more serious, that they’re killing off the whistleblowers. Better keep this story front and center.”

  159. 159.

    Miss Bianca

    @cain: Um…as I recall, the voters in Kansas actually elected a Democratic governor in the wake of the disastrous Brownback Experiment.

    ETA: So, not sure what you mean by “the voters never punished them”. Unless you mean the Republican pols in question were never charged with crimes against the people, or something.

  160. 160.

    Quinerly

    @JPL:

    Almost as cool as when Ali Macgraw asked to pet and hug my old Poco at a parking meter behind the El Museo Flea market one cold February while we were visiting Santa Fe. He was taking a pee on the meter.  Poco insisted on not taking a bath for 6 months after snuggling with Ms Macgraw.

  161. 161.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

    What happened to Alabama?

    The ‘ we’ll replace the undocumented with prison labor’ experiment FAILED…

     

    BADLY..

     

    so, they had to ultimately repeal the law.

  162. 162.

    Geminid

    @cain: Kansas Democrat Laura Kelly was elected Governor in 2018, and voters liked her enough to reelect her last year. I’m guessing she carried a majority of the Independent vote in addition to turning out Democrats.

    Kelly was one of several Democratic women who flipped red Governor seats in 2018, along with Michelle Lujan Griffin in New Mexico and Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan.

  163. 163.

    Citizen Alan

    @cain: White supremacists will accept any amount of suffering imposed by their own political leaders as long as The Others have it worse. Davis X Machina absolutely nailed it

  164. 164.

    rikyrah

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Right now, my impression is that most profiteering from prison labor happens in the course of running the prisons themselves. But that’s now. Certainly wasn’t in the past, might not be forever.

     

    The for-profit prisons were losing their populations. The numbers, erego, their profits, were declining.

    Arresting hords of the undocumented would resolve that problem.

  165. 165.

    scav

    @Kay: Ah, but NYC doesn’t have to absolutely protect every person in their fair city.  It only needs to absolutely protect every wealthy (in their own mind) traditionally behaviored manly he-man brave like a lion patriot of lily-white hue (lilies sometimes distinctly of the day lily persuasion).

  167. 167.

    Bill Arnold

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I’ve seen people having full-on screaming psychotic breaks on public transit, here in metro Boston. I’m sure many of us have.

    In the 1980s NYC, I watched a bag lady threatening people around her with a paring knife, on a crowded bus where people were standing. We all just ignored her or gave her baleful/sympathetic calming glares. (I was internally paying close attention, ready to grab her arm if she started getting stabby.)

  168. 168.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: It drives me absolutely crazy the way the pundits add in all these facts that the perpetrator couldn’t possibly have known. They act like of course that Marine knew that the homeless man had a long, long rap sheet and could have been a dangerous person, which even if he had known it STILL wouldn’t have been a justification for what he did. The truth is that too many people don’t care what happens to the homeless as long as they don’t have to see them. I had a co-worker say that the solution to homelessness was to run them out of town. I pointed out that this wasn’t a solution, it was relocation, to which he replied “But I wouldn’t have to worry about them anymore”. That’s the average person’s attitude in a nutshell.

  169. 169.

    cain

    @Jeffro: It’s also doesn’t apply to you or other liberals. That rule is only for conservatives. The 2nd amendment is used by racists to arm themselves against the other and the local legislatures and court systems support that.

  170. 170.

    Tenar Arha

    @Baud: It makes me think of my college &/ university lectures. The “academic speech preface” that tells you the professor is about to make a key point, something that will be the focus of a quiz or an essay, so you better be ready to write it down. I’ve also listened to his podcast, I think he tends to talk this way too. ETA (Which makes sense, he is a college professor)

  171. 171.

    cain

    @Baud: Yeah, but Dr. David Bruce Banner, physician, scientist who tried to find a way to alter his body chemistry – he didn’t need a AK47 – he turned into a green goliath.

    (I loved that show)

  174. 174.

    Quinerly

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    I keep meaning to watch it.

    When I used to drive thru Oklahoma regularly beating the path between St. Louis and Santa Fe and back, the only things that would make me smile were the signs for “Kickapoo Nation.” I just love reading it and saying it.

    Oklahoma did give us some fine musicians…two favorites for me. Leon Russell and JJ Cale. So, they do help by blasting when driving through and having to pay all those highway tolls and high gas prices in Oklahoma.

  176. 176.

    cain

    @Soprano2: The homeless aren’t going to go away and we are generating more homeless and more millionaires/billionaires. The system is dysfunctional.

  180. 180.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Geminid: Ack! I love your comments, but you always get MLG’s last name wrong: it’s Michelle Lujan GRISHAM. Thank you.

  181. 181.

    Fair Economist

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I’m sure many of us have. I cannot imagine just assuming that this person needs to be put in a chokehold.

    It’s much worse than that. You don’t accidentally strangle somebody to death. You have to hang on nearly five minutes after they stop moving. This wasn’t just choking out somebody he was pissed at (which would be plenty bad) but intentional murder.

  183. 183.

    Bupalos

    Biden has apparently decided to negotiate with terrorists. He is pretty sure that they want to avoid a default, and are going to work hard with him to help that not happen. I’m sure glad those Republicans are there to help him work this whole mess out.

    Pretty much the most disappointing day of the Presidency thus far.

  185. 185.

    Another Scott

    @Bupalos:

    Heh.

    It’s not over until it’s over. Everything before then is posturing. E.g. TheHill:

    Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) on Monday signaled there had been little progress in debt ceiling negotiations over the weekend, accusing Democrats and the White House of wanting “a default more than a deal.”

    “I still think we’re far apart. It doesn’t seem to me yet they want a deal, it just seems like they want to look like they are in a meeting but they’re not taking anything serious,” McCarthy told NBC and CNN when walking into his office Monday.

    “It seems like they want a default more than a deal,” McCarthy added, echoing his sentiments from last week.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  186. 186.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Quinerly: It’s really funny but also heavy, deep, sad and sweet.  And most important, it really feels like a project done by Native/Indigenous people FOR Native/Indigenous people.  It never feels like it’s written by white dudes or is pandering to the White Gaze.

  187. 187.

    StringOnAStick

    @Quinerly: The royal family; gee, what can you say?  I had long ago developed an attitude that rule by lucky sperm club was stupid, and noted they don’t actually rule over anything and are just an odd British anachronism; all pomp, no real power.

    If the Netflix series The Crown is even less than half true, it’s a  portrait of an upper class raised in incredible privilege, sure of their social superiority, but dogged by the fear that the country will eventually find them superfluous and turn off the money spigot.  Reading Spare, for all its flaws, revealed that royal families are just as riven with interpersonal politics, manoeuvring, and shifting alliances as 200 years ago, but now for such ridiculous low stakes as to be laughable.

  188. 188.

    Gretchen

    @cain: the legislature is mostly R but governor Kelly is able to veto the worst. And we have some fantastic progressive reps from the Kansas City suburbs. The attempt to outlaw abortion on an August ballot failed by 18 points.

  189. 189.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I think they have this exactly wrong. This is NOT an occasion to discuss homelessness. We cannot have a conversation about homelessness if the NYTimes and half the population believe that killing them is justified.

    Needs to be two separate topics– killing people and then homelessness. Obviously. Since Right wingers and center Right pundits went IMMEDIATELY to “let’s just kill them”.

  190. 190.

    Brachiator

    @Soprano2:

    I had a co-worker say that the solution to homelessness was to run them out of town.

    I had a coworker who believed that homeless people should be put out of their misery. Euthanasia. And she thought of herself as very progressive.

  192. 192.

    Baud

    @Another Scott: Thank you

    ETA:

    “It seems like they want a default more than a deal,” McCarthy added, echoing his sentiments from last week.

    Time to show up Biden, McCarthy.  Pass a clean debt bill and dare Biden to sign it!

  193. 193.

    Geminid

    @O. Felix Culpa: Thanks. I get it right every now and then but then I’ll blow it again.

    I’ll try to remind myself that the Governor’s name is the same as that of novelist John Grisham. He lives a county over from me.

  194. 194.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Ruckus: I’ve ridden subways/metros/light rail in at least a dozen countries on three continents, and can’t think of another one that runs 24/7 and moves 2.5 million people a day.

  195. 195.

    Brachiator

    @Another Scott:

    “It seems like they want a default more than a deal,” McCarthy added, echoing his sentiments from last week.

    Essentially, the Republicans want a second chance at being able to veto already passed legislation.

    Biden may be looking for some kind of compromise, but I wish that he would stand firm.

  196. 196.

    Fleeting Expletive

    @Quinerly: Thank you for bringing up Fred Harris of Oklahoma, and I’m real glad he’s still around. I met him at a democrats’ luncheon and sat at his table for a long and wonderful conversation.  Technically I think it’s still true that by registration there are more Democrats in OK than Republicans, but the latter have gone feral here like they have everywhere else. And the governor is a troll.

  198. 198.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Geminid: Thanks, sorry about the use of the word always, I tried to edit it to frequently, but I was too late for the edit window.

    Yes, GRISHAM, it is. :)

  199. 199.

    Quinerly

    @Soprano2:

    Yes. Sometimes if I was on a crazy driving schedule going  from Santa Fe back to St. Louis, I have stopped in Joplin or Springfield for the night. I also was a collections/business/commercial litigation attorney for almost 40 years. The big firm I was with in the 1980’s thru 2001 had a docket in Springfield that got rotated around my department. So about every 3 months I was down there overnight. My favorite memory about Springfield, MO was an execution (basically, seizing $ or equipment, etc post judgment to be sold at a sheriff’s sale to apply to the amt of the judgment obtained) on a very substantial $ amt judgment…. Had spent the night there, was up at dawn with Greene County Sheriff’s Dept to go in and seize construction equipment titled in the judgment debtor’s name. (The sheriff’s office had insisted having Plaintiff’s atty there…kinda unusual) I had had no luck locating bank accts or any other assets but this heavy equipment….”seizing” it  stopped all work for his crews. We made the newspaper. The debtor ended up paying up (was hiding assets somewhere) and we released the equipment. I was in town about 3 days on that.

    How long have you been in Springfield?

  200. 200.

    Quinerly

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    He was so fascinating in Perea’s. Basically holding court with some other villagers. I had gone over to Corrales and Bernalillo for the day. Was alone and eavesdropping on his group. I kept glancing up and smiling, nodding my head. Lots of Trump bashing going on. He looked over and invited me into the group. Thankfully the woman sitting next to me whispered to me who he was. It was a great afternoon.

  201. 201.

    cain

    @Gretchen: white conservative men have now decided women are also the enemy – so I think you’ll be seeing more stuff along women’s health and even new voting laws.

  203. 203.

    cain

    @Brachiator: Because they don’t see them as human, but misbegotten creatures that have failed at life and should be put out of their misery. I’m sure they pray really hard on Sundays.

  204. 204.

    RaflW

    @Another Scott: As the crisis looms, the Biden team should run ads in heavy rotation clipping Trump from last week saying “I say to the Republicans out there — congressmen, senators — if they don’t give you massive cuts, you’re going to have to do a default.”

    And then loop the phrase “massive cuts” several times, over logos of the V.A. + a vet & nurse; a fighter landing on an aircraft carrier; a school teacher in a classroom; a house on a beach collapsing into the waves, etc.

    Make it 100% clear who is doing what to whom.

  206. 206.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Brachiator:

    This surprises me not at all. Almost all of the chronically homeless are mentally ill, substance abusers, or both. These are hard problems to solve. I think most people don’t want to bother trying. I think there is also some resentment at the idea of just giving them housing. There are so many people barely making rent. There would be much more appetite for helping the homeless if there were fewer billionaires AND fewer people struggling to make ends meet.

  208. 208.

    Brachiator

    @cain:

    Because they don’t see them as human, but misbegotten creatures that have failed at life and should be put out of their misery. I’m sure they pray really hard on Sundays.

    My coworker friend was an atheist progressive who believed that putting the homeless out of their misery would be an act of kindness. Like putting a wounded pet to sleep.

  210. 210.

    rikyrah

    @Soprano2:

    ! They have admitted that this means that a constitutional amendment protecting the right to reproductive services, including abortion, will probably get on the ballot and then pass. All the proponents of it have to do is sue to get their petitions approved by state government, which is currently having a disagreement over how much the measures would cost the state. The AG says $12 billion, the state treasurer says $0. You can see the conflict here. I actually wonder if this is their way of keeping it off the ballot

     

    They are trying that bullshyt everywhere. They don’t want it to be subject to the will of the people.

  211. 211.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Chris:

    Which is why I said..

    There would be much more appetite for helping the homeless if there were fewer billionaires AND fewer people struggling to make ends meet.

  212. 212.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Quinerly:

    The only good thing about Oklahoma now is the Bob Dylan Center in Tulsa.

    How the hell did Tulsa become the site of the Bob Dylan Center?

    (If they were going to put it in a city in deep red territory, they should’ve stuck it inside of Mobile, with or without the Memphis blues.)

    Nonetheless, I’m going to take advantage of that – all three of my cousins on my mother’s side of the family have wound up in Tulsa, and I’ve been planning to visit next year.  Didn’t know about this added perk!

  214. 214.

    Soprano2

    @Brachiator: OMG, that is horrible! She was aware that these are people, right? I think there are more people than we want to admit who have more sympathy for an animal than for people who are homeless.

  215. 215.

    Soprano2

    @Quinerly: Since I moved here from a town about 20 miles southwest of Springfield when I was 18, in 1979. So, a long time. It’s slowly getting more moderate, but it’s taking a long time. It’s a good place to live if you don’t think about the politics. The local officeholders – city council and school board – are actually better for the most part than the ones they elect to the state legislature.

    I probably read about that case because I’ve been reading the local paper forever, but I don’t remember it. Sounds like you didn’t see that much of our city if you were here for only a day or two. It can be nice.

  216. 216.

    Another Scott

    @Brachiator:

    Essentially, the Republicans want a second chance at being able to veto already passed legislation.

    This is exactly right.

    They know they don’t have the votes to repeal Biden’s accomplishments in their actual position and job as legislators. So, they want to get out of their lane and try to run the Treasury instead.

    Similarly, the SCOTUS has decided that they want to be an unelected, appointed-for-life, super-legislature.

    It’s not their job.

    They need to stay in their lane and do their jobs.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  217. 217.

    Brachiator

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    This surprises me not at all. Almost all of the chronically homeless are mentally ill, substance abusers, or both.

    Some homeless people develop mental illness or become substance abusers because being on the streets is hard.

    In Los Angeles and Southern California, the number of homeless people seems to have increased greatly. I’ve seen more people living on sidewalks in front of stores. The cost of living and soaring rents have also accelerated the problem. I’ve noticed people who are homeless but still working. But the number of sustainable low wage jobs have also declined. And there are, of course, people living in their cars and RVs.

    I also see more homeless sleeping in Metro trains and buses. And more homeless families.

    Skid Row Los Angeles is overflowing. But some homeless adults don’t want to live in skid row housing or even government provided housing, if there are rules and conditions.

    There has always been a level of homelessness in California. The railroads and the weather helped attract poor people.

    But the problem has accelerated recently. People who cannot leave as their lives become impoverished, and who cannot find help with friends or family or often trapped in a spiral of despair.

    And those who may have mental issues cannot easily get treatment or help.

    Solutions are not simple, as you note, and governments and people have other problems that also must be addressed.

    I also note that I have seen a lot of this up close because I had a family member who became homeless for a time.

  220. 220.

    Mai Naem mobile

    There’s a massive homeless camp in downtown Phoenix. By massive, it honestly looks like a smaller third world shanty town. I am used to seeing small groups of homeless people in parks all around Phoenix. I just ended up on one of the border streets of the encampment because of construction and detours etc. There’s a ton of apartment building in Phoenix but for the most part they’re not cheap.  $1500/ mo for a 1 bed plus all the extra little gougy  fees. You can get cheaper stuff in the exurbs but public transportation is poor to zero so you need a car which brings its own expenses. I wish there was some kind of  transitional housing situation where you can give somebody free rent for 6 mos/9mos/12 mos. ,whichever is appropriate, to get their bearings(medical treatment,basic job training)  and then move on. Maybe a sliding scale on the rent later on. We have to do better.

  221. 221.

    Quinerly

    @Soprano2:

    Like I said, a day or two a few times a year from late ’80’s thru late ’90’s. That construction equipment case was probably around 1995. Slow news day. I actually had forgotten about it making the newspaper until I was cleaning out the house I grew up in in NC. Back in those days, I was  the only female atty in that firm. One of the semi retired founders of the firm liked to mentor me and was always slipping me these odd cases, without my direct boss knowing it. Suing on behalf of a TV station a Wendy’s franchisee for unpaid advertising, a state representative for unpaid child support, seizing a small airplane after the Flood of ’93. Then the founder would give out little tidbits to his buddy at the St Louis Post Dispatch. Sooo….several little blurbs in the St. Louis paper about my odd cases, with mention of the firm. I would send the clippings to my dad. I found the folder with the clippings when cleaning out his home office. I have no idea how the seizure of the construction equipment made your Springfield paper. Like I said…slow news day. And my old mentor loved to see the name of his firm in the newspaper. Any newspaper.

  222. 222.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: There are pecan farms in northeastern Oklahoma as well. I remember coming back from New Mexico once and loading up some nuts at a roadside stand near Vinita. I camped at Osage Hills State Park the night before. That’s some pretty country.

  223. 223.

    Quinerly

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I have yet to find a good explanation. I am a huge Dylan fan. If you find out why… post it.

    It was just getting going during my big move from St Louis to Santa Fe, 1.5 years ago. I haven’t been to it. I will hit it when I make a visit back to St. Louis. Actually, OK City was my stopping for the night point if I left either way on my normal timing. Never spent the night in Tulsa.

  224. 224.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid:

    That’s a beautiful park.

    I highly recommend “Killers of the Summer Moon” if you haven’t read it. I think it has been optioned for a movie.

  225. 225.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    so yeah, this thread may be dead, but it’s made one thing pretty clear: a lot of you don’t know a fucking thing about nyc or the subway.

    THERE IS NO CRIME WAVE IN NYC.

    there WASN’T a crime wave in nyc.

    you know how you know? when crime was a problem here, people would hide their jewelry and valuables when they would go out, pull their radios from their cars, CLUB the fucking steering wheels.

    people walk around with $500.00+ phones out in their hands, earbeads in, OBLIVIOUS to the world…

    ALL THE TIME.

    all HOURS. pretty much all LOCATIONS.

    no one’s worried about crime.

    if people were REALLY worried about that dude, they woulda poured outta either of the two doors at either end of the train.

    the marine SHOULD have known his chokehold was dangerous because he was a marine.

    sure, the press are being dicks, but a lot of you guys are, too.

    along with blaming the state democrats for the gop congress. ultimately what cost us was cuomo and his fucking judge. i ended up with goldman in the new ny-10, so i’m pretty happy but the districts state-wide were largely borked.

    …and let’s not forget mayor cop got in because of the vaunted, progressive ranked choice voting program. (don’t look at me, i voted for wiley.)

  226. 226.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Kay: Agreed. But he did know — thanks to his Marine Corp. training — that a chokehold should only be applied 8-13 seconds.

    Can’t remember the link, but there’s a petition started by Marine Vets to upgrade the charges to murder because this is something that’s drilled into recruits — among other reasons to prevent accidental training deaths — so holding a chokehold for 15 minutes is at a minimum criminally negligent homicide, which involves causing someone’s death by acting in a manner that was reckless, inattentive, or careless.

  227. 227.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Quinerly:

    I have yet to find a good explanation. I am a huge Dylan fan. If you find out why… post it.

    It was just getting going during my big move from St Louis to Santa Fe, 1.5 years ago. I haven’t been to it. I will hit it when I make a visit back to St. Louis. Actually, OK City was my stopping for the night point if I left either way on my normal timing. Never spent the night in Tulsa.

    What are now my Tulsa cousins all grew up on my uncle’s ranch in Cowley County, KS, two miles north of the OK line.  I’ve stepped over the OK line from the KS side, just to say I’ve been there, but that’s the extent of my having visited Oklahoma.

    Anyhow, sometime next year, or the year after at the very latest, I’m sure I’ll be visiting them.  Saw one of them just a couple weeks ago when she was out here for my mom’s memorial service; the other two, I haven’t seen since their mom’s funeral five years ago.  Time for some catching up!

  228. 228.

    Steeplejack

    @Quinerly:

    I was curious about the Bob Dylan Center being located in Tulsa, OK. It seems that in 2016 Dylan sold his “archive” of 6,000 pieces—including lyrics, correspondence, recordings, films and photographs—to the George Kaiser Family Foundation and the University of Tulsa for an estimated $15-20 million. The foundation also operates the nearby Woody Guthrie Center.

    New York Times:

    Mr. Dylan’s archives are now [2016] being transferred to Oklahoma, the home state of Woody Guthrie, Mr. Dylan’s early idol. After two years of cataloging and digitization, the material will take its place in Tulsa alongside a rare copy of the Declaration of Independence, a cache of Native American art and the papers of Guthrie.

    Mr. Dylan said in a statement that he was glad his archives had found a home “and are to be included with the works of Woody Guthrie and especially alongside all the valuable artifacts from the Native American nations.” He added, with typical understatement, “To me it makes a lot of sense, and it’s a great honor.”

  229. 229.

    Quinerly

    @Steeplejack:

    I guess I should know this/should have looked deeper. I remember the sale and should have made the connection. Thanks for finding this. Much appreciated.

  232. 232.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @lowtechcyclist: ​(If they were going to put it in a city in deep red territory, they should’ve stuck it inside of Mobile, with or without the Memphis blues.)

    The rainman gave me two cures and he said, Jump on in:
    The one was Texas medicine, the other was just railroad gin.
    And like a fool I mixed them, and it strangled up my mind –
    Now people just get uglier, and I have no sense of time…    ​

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