Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

We still have time to mess this up!

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

The words do not have to be perfect.

You are here: Home / 2024 Elections / Monday Evening Open Thread: Back Into the Workday World

Monday Evening Open Thread: Back Into the Workday World

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Gift link: Will Leitch, for the New York Times, “Trump Is Back, to Make Families Fight Again”:

… Families across America that were so divided by the Trump era have only started to heal in the last couple of years — and now we’re facing the real possibility of a sequel.

I’m dreading, and I sense that [my cousin] and many other Americans are dreading, having to go through this gantlet so soon again. Politics have divided families in ugly ways, and I do sense that the Biden era, for many, has been a chance to try to heal. But the wounds may be about to be reopened.

One of the implicit, but central, selling points of a Joe Biden presidency was that, if he did his job right, the average American wouldn’t have to pay much attention to him. The “normalcy” Mr. Biden vowed to return us to was partly about making the executive branch a functioning arm of government again, and about no longer being the (very scary) joke that the country had become globally during the Donald Trump presidency.

But at home, for many Americans, it was about something simpler than that: It was about returning to a world where we did not have to talk and fight about politics all the time. It was about being in your own home, among your own family and being able to forget, if just for a little while, that politics were happening at all — or at least assume that reasonable people were taking care of it.

The Trump years made this impossible, and the ubiquitousness of politics, the sense that you had to be screaming about the state of the world at all times, fractured families across the country. What had once been merely some awkward moments at Thanksgiving became constant fissures pitting kids against parents, siblings against siblings, generation against generation…

Things have not been perfect, and there are still people desperately trying to fight about everything — there’s always that relative who insists on making sure you saw his “Let’s Go Brandon” hat. But with the easing of a pandemic that scrambled the planet, you have been able to walk around in the world for at least a few minutes at a time without worrying that it would explode. Maybe you even mended some fences with the people who, no matter how much you may disagree with them, you love…

My cousin and I disagree on many things, and there have been times — as when I saw her on Facebook cheering on the buses of “patriots” on their way to Washington on Jan. 5, 2021 — when I thought our relationship was essentially over. This was not long after she, someone who detasseled corn in the vast Illinois fields alongside me when we were both children, called me an “elitist deep stater.” It was difficult to wrap my mind around how much had changed: I had gone from affably disagreeing with her about Mitt Romney to wondering if she’d lost touch with reality entirely.

But the fact remains: I love my cousin, and my cousin loves me. It is impossible to imagine my life, who I would be, without her place in it, and I’m sure she feels the same way. She has known me forever in a way so few people have. I’ve enjoyed reconnecting and have even thought, “If our relationship can survive 2020, it can survive anything.” But can it survive that twice? I am not sure. I suspect many families across the country are wondering the same thing…

Keep America normal – reelect President Joe!

Monday Evening Open Thread: Back Into the Workday World

Reader Interactions

212Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    I really can’t fault the GOP strategy accurately depicted in that last cartoon.

  2. 2.

    japa21

    Actually, I think the average voter does like Biden, even many who consider themselves Republican. There is a difference between approving of the job he has done and liking him.
    And right now that approval rating is somewhat in flux, And aggressive campaign focusing not only on what the GOP wants to do (and has done) but also on what the Dems and Biden have actually done, could lead to a landslide victory, even in a polarized country like ours.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    This was not long after she, someone who detasseled corn in the vast Illinois fields alongside me when we were both children, called me an “elitist deep stater.”

    I’m curious what the author called the cousin. Or maybe their relationship works because the abuse only goes one way.

  4. 4.

    bbleh

    Whatever the arguments about how The Debt Ceiling Thing should have been handled, the relative merits and drawbacks of the various asserted Fixes, the importance of Removing It Once and For All vs. just kicking the can, etc., etc…

    I do not understand how anyone could think that the economic turmoil caused by ANY course of action other than the one he took would not have hurt Biden politically, quite possibly fatally.

  5. 5.

    Another Scott

    Sloppy final tweet by Josh.

    CNN:

    The final vote was 217-215, with four Republicans – Ken Buck of Colorado, Andy Biggs of Arizona, Tim Burchett of Tennessee and Matt Gaetz of Florida – voting against the bill. McCarthy could only lose four votes and prevail on the vote.

    Supposedly Qevin only won that vote by convincing enough of the GQPers that it would never get through the Senate so there was no risk of it being enacted, but he needed the “win” to have the press not run with GQPers in Disarray stories.

    Yes, beat all of them over the head about that bill. But get the details right.

    [/soapbox]

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  7. 7.

    japa21

    @bbleh: Not only Biden, but the country as a whole (although the argument could be made that they are closely intertwined).

  8. 8.

    Xantar

    Lemme guess: Will Leitch is white? That would explain why he prioritizes a relationship with an objectively bad person rather than calling her out.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    @bbleh:

    Ideally, all the blame would have fallen on the GOP. But that went out the window when libs started believing in One Weird Tricks that Biden could unilaterally implement to save us.

  10. 10.

    JMG

    I think the “Biden’s too old” thought, which is held by tens of millions of Americans, is because so many people have had to deal with the mental decline and/or failure of their own older relatives. It’s natural if mistaken for the idea that old age means dramatic decline to resonate with them. It speaks to their own experiences.

  11. 11.

    There go two miscreants

    I can’t speak for others, but I am not mending fences with any of the Trumpers I’ve cut out of my life.

  13. 13.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @japa21: I think this guy quote sums up Biden in the public eye

    “I mean it’s pretty good that we went from “Biden will massively cave” to “what was the point exactly?” in the course of like a week.”

    The press just plasters their “It’s Jimmy Carter 2.0” narrative all over Biden and the public doesn’t like that narrative.

  15. 15.

    Sure Lurkalot

    Ike was right about military spending but it seems majorities in both parties prefer things that go boom over housing, education, health care, climate change mitigations yada yada yada.

  16. 16.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    I haven’t cut the Trumpers out of my life. I’ve limited contact and disengage every time they start talking about politics. I figure it’s like a cult. They live in a bubble where they are constantly being propagandized in the most destructive ways possible. The cultists demonize anything and anyone that contradicts the crap they are being fed, which reinforces the bubble. Maybe they never escape it, but I keep the door open just in case. If roles had been reversed, I hope they would have done the same for me.

  17. 17.

    Suzanne

    My father-in-law unexpectedly passed away this morning.
    One of his more charming qualities was his ability to make gregarious, stream-of-consciousness conversation with anybody. He hated Trump. He is missed.

  18. 18.

    Spanky

    The top article on the wapo website explains what’s wrong with the deal:

    ‘Terrible public policy’. Why the debt deal infutiates climate activists.

  19. 19.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @JMG: ​ In their defense, I’ve seen several people go from fully functional people to gibbering toddlers over night.

    Not saying I think this is imminent, just saying that all too many people have seen it. (Mind you, I’m not worried, the constitution has this covered)

  21. 21.

    Mike E

    The basque astronaut and chatham harrison tweets read like nonsense to me. I must be doing this wrong.

    @Suzanne: my condolences to you and your family.

  22. 22.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @JMG:

    I think the “Biden’s too old” thought, which is held by tens of millions of Americans, is because

    Personally, I think it’s because normies hardly ever see him.  They hear about him on the news or see tiny clips.  You have to actually see and hear him speak to realize this guy is smart, physically fit, and energetic.  On the campaign trail that will change.  He’ll be shoved in people’s faces, and I predict a wide reaction of “Yay, Fun Uncle Biden is back!”

  23. 23.

    Baud

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    Military spending is a tough nut to crack, but I find the sinister portrayal of Dems as deceitful about the debt ceiling pretty disgusting.  Essentially the same as what the Republicans do.

  34. 34.

    Mousebumples

    Open thread, so… Anyone else watching the ECF game tonight?

    As a Bucks fan, idk who to root for.

    Celtics – first team to come back from 0-3 in the NBA playoffs, making the Heat the first team to lose a series after being up 3-0

    Heat – The 8 seed the ended the Bucks’ season also sends the Celtics home…

    Feels like a head’s I win, tails you lose situation to me… 🤔

  35. 35.

    Mousebumples

    @Baud: Picasso had a blue period.

    The Old Guitarist (or something to that effect) is one of my favorites of his – and it’s at the Chicago Art Museum. (eta – it’s very much from how blue period, which I now realize I didn’t mention in the original version of this comment)

  36. 36.

    geg6

    @Suzanne:

    I’m so sorry to hear that.  Your words are a sweet tribute to him.  My thoughts to you, Mr. Suzanne and the entire family.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    The other thing is, do people think things would be better with their relatives if it’s DeSantis spewing the hate rather than Trump.

  38. 38.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mike E:

    Basque’s point is that where government spending is concerned, the American people have self-contradictory and low-information preferences.  He is scorning this Benjamin Balthasar dumbass who is pushing the ‘Dems actually want to cut the safety net’ narrative.  I don’t honestly think Basque’s point connects very well with Balthasar’s.  I do see an intersection where Democrats wouldn’t need excuses to enact austerity.  It’s easy to sell austerity to a public that doesn’t know what it wants.

  40. 40.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Suzanne: Condolences to family and friends. I’ve had a few relatives die unexpectedly and it somehow makes the passing more surreal and tragic.

  43. 43.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Baud: i fear a lot of people do: they think that the problem with TFG is that he behaves badly, has the wrong affect, is chaotic. They don’t think that the problem is that he’s a goddamn fascist and white supremacist misogynist racist who wants to destroy America. That part they think is just fine just fine.

  45. 45.

    Mousebumples

    @Baud: No problem! I had a little Spanish artist study during my high school Spanish classes (that included a trip to the Chicago Art Museum).

    Mr. Mouse is a bar trivia nerd (and aspiring future Jeopardy contestant) and he confirmed Van Gogh did not have a blue period. 🔷

  47. 47.

    japa21

    @Mousebumples:  Going with the Heat. Makes the Bucks loss a little more bearable.  The two teams I thought had a chance to knock out the Bucks were the Celtics and the Heat.

     

    ETA: Rooting for the Admirals as well.

  48. 48.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Baud: I was going for “funding our paltry and porous safety net is always dwarfed by the largess we pile on defense contractors.”

  50. 50.

    Baud

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    Depends what you count as the safety net.  If you include Social Security and every federal health program, then, no, the safety net is much larger than defense spending.

    ETA: my prior comment was referring to the tweet in the OP, not your comment.  Sorry for any confusion.

  51. 51.

    HumboldtBlue

    This was not long after she, someone who detasseled corn in the vast Illinois fields alongside me when we were both children, called me an “elitist deep stater.”

    Our family (8 kids) and our maternal aunties’ family (four kids) each visited grandma and grandpa’s house in Massachusetts (at different times, except for one glorious summer when we were all there together) every summer from around ’70 thru ’77-’78 and pulling the hair off fresh corn that had been purchased on the side of the roadway on the way home from Elephant Rock beach was almost as much a rite of passage as was trailing along with grandpa on his weekly trip to the dump in those heady, wonderful, summer days.

    All 12 kids ended up staunch liberals and patriots (five enlisted in the military) in our own ways, and I guess we were lucky enough to avoid this sort of political divide. I chalk that up to excellent education (oddly enough, the Catholic Church played a key role, where civil rights and women’s rights and treating those different from you with respect were the top order of the day and there were plenty of priests and nuns in those days who were at the forefront of the Civil Rights battle) and an emphasis on the doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing.

    There are no political battles in my family, and even my father, raised by a snooty, drunken, racist woman, would eventually come around to the good side (he was definitely a Nixon voter back in the day, and yet a man who more than once told a priest or even one time the archbishop himself that if they had anything to say about his big-mouth wife and her push for more inclusive involvement of women in the church and mass they could come to him first and get straightened out) and it would never occur to any of us to be on the side of anything but the good side — that which you do unto least of my brothers you do unto me.

    Typing this out makes me proud, our family text threads could be a mirror of these comment threads at times — bar NotMax, who I am not sure is human and am positive is some sort of ChatGP creation to make us laugh and provide excellent link after excellent link — and to think that our parents, and through them our shared grandparents, made it 12-for-12 is a pretty damn good turnout and a damned fine legacy.

    @Suzanne:

    One of his more charming qualities was his ability to make gregarious, stream-of-consciousness conversation with anybody. He hated Trump. He is missed.

    He sounds like a wonderful, love to your clan.

  52. 52.

    Mousebumples

    @japa21: yeah, agreed.

    Giannis’s injury in game 1 wasn’t great for our chances anyhow. After GA and Ja both got hurt on the sliding “charge” move in Round 1, I’m hoping some rule changes could be coming in the off season …

  55. 55.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Suzanne:

    Oh, I am sorry. My condolences to you, Mr Suzanne, SuzSpawn, and everyone who loved SuzFIL and grieves his passing. Thinking of you and sending virtual hugs.

  56. 56.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​
     

    Ideally, all the blame would have fallen on the GOP. But that went out the window when libs started believing in One Weird Tricks that Biden could unilaterally implement to save us.

    Yeah, it was the One Weird Tricks, the consols and the coins, that caused the media to bothsides this. The media would have totally put the blame on the GOP if nobody had mentioned these things.

    What color is your sky, etc.

  58. 58.

    Citizen Alan

    @JMG: My own belief about Joe Biden’s age, based on my experiences with both my mother and father is that Joe’s health and mental competency will both be perfectly fine … right up until very suddenly and unexpectedly they are not. And no one but God knows when that moment comes. So I refuse to worry about it, particularly since my top choice from the 2020 primary is ready to step in if the worst happens.

  60. 60.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne: ​
     

    I’m so sorry to hear about your father-in-law. My thoughts are with you and your husband at this time.

  62. 62.

    Citizen Alan

    @There go two miscreants: My sister is quietly furious that I’m moving to California, in large part, I think, because she knows perfectly well how miserable I’ve been living in Mississippi and, I suspect, on some level enjoyed my suffering.

  68. 68.

    Ken

    @Frankensteinbeck: Basque’s tweet reminds me of Paul Krugman’s description of the federal government as “an insurance company with an army.”  (And you can argue that the army is part of the insurance.)

  69. 69.

    bbleh

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: @Baud: “love the sinner, hate the sin.”  Nothing wrong with refuting their arguments and beliefs while also accepting them as, say family members, or at least as humans as deserving of accessible health care as anyone else.

    I do NOT have any patience for their dogmas though, especially their bigotries.  I’ll call it bigotry to their faces and wait for them to refute it (and they almost never do).  I’d do the same if they had Biden tattooed on their back like Roger Stone has Nixon.

  72. 72.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Citizen Alan: She’ll be even angrier when you love living there and gush about how great it is. If she accepted that right-wing media is wrong about things like red states being utopias and blue states being hell holes, then she’d have to accept how much else they are wrong about.

  74. 74.

    frosty

    @schrodingers_cat: ​Oh my, that was so long ago! I probably used whatever came with the Rapidograph set. My drafting days were pretty short-lived though. Most of my graphics work as a Scheduling Engineer ended up being ChartPak tape. We used to call ourselves CPEs.

  75. 75.

    Citizen Alan

    @OzarkHillbilly: Did I mention how, last Easter, my sister asked me (in a hateful snarl) to give her one good reason why I supported Biden? I looked her in the eye and “On every issue that’s important to me, Biden agrees with my position and the Republicans oppose me.” And she literally ran out of the room hysterically crying and screaming that she needed to take a tranquilizer!

  77. 77.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: I can’t cut TFG supporters out of my life; I work with several of them, and have quite a few as regular customers. They know not to bring up politics with me, and know my opinion of TFG.

  78. 78.

    Citizen Alan

    @Baud: Those people have never heard Puddin’ Boots speak. I myself just actually heard his voice for the first time last week and I was shocked at how much worse he is when you hear him instead of just read his quotes.

  83. 83.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    I’m talking about the public, not the media. Biden can’t win anything with the public if libs don’t back him.

    OK, now I’m sure the sky is some weird color where you live.

    Who are these ‘libs’ who have more of an effect on what the public thinks than the mainstream media does?

    And how was suggesting ways to avoid this potential catastrophe inconsistent with backing Biden? Of course they wanted him to succeed, and not either (a) be President when the GOP forced a default, or (b) be President when the GOP made him pay an unreasonably high price for avoiding it.  That’s being on his side.

    You can argue that their advice was bad, and the Weird Tricks would have been a mistake, but I think it’s bullshit to say that their giving it was ill-intentioned toward him.

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud:

    Yeah, it sounded to me like the writer was both-sidesing his own relationship with his (pretty well self-documented) crazy cousin. Aren’t there like Enablers Anonymous groups for that?

  87. 87.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Citizen Alan:

    Welcome to the neighborhood, you’re gonna love it. Just stay out of the red areas — they are easy to spot, they are near universally in the inland/non-coastal areas where the summer heat and industrial pollution melt brains or so far away from anywhere that matters that no one cares what they do — and be sure to send back many glowing reports to your sis about how terrible it is out here and how she should NEVER make the move herself.

  90. 90.

    Soprano2

    @Ben Cisco 🇺🇸🎖️🖥️♦️: That’s pretty harsh. Was I supposed to cut my mother out of my life over TFG? There are more important things in life than politics. Just as a reference, she left a decent portion of her sizable estate to a local animal rescue, because she loved animals.

  93. 93.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Suzanne:

    wait whut

    Yeah, that doesn’t shock me. There is what Biden’s actual positions are and what the cultists think his positions are. That is the problem. Sensible immigration policy becomes open borders for criminals. Support for the right of transpeople to live their own lives freely becomes support for pedophiles. They really are being fed crazy crap 24/7

  95. 95.

    Citizen Alan

    @Jackie: Yes, I did! And then, after two days of agonizing, I called to apply at my number one choice to find out they’d rented out their last unit that morning, so I had to go with number two. :)

  96. 96.

    Steeplejack

    Okay, I downloaded Martha Wells’s first Murderbot book, All Systems Red, to my Kindle, based on recommendations here. It better be good! I need a palate-cleanser after my initial foray into Agatha Christie.

  101. 101.

    Citizen Alan

    The latest blowup was last week (the day before I went to Fresno for apartment hunting, natch) when we got into an argument over the disposition of some of my late father’s farm land. And she went on a rant about how, while I “having a ball” in New York (while working on an LL.M.), she was having to take care of our dying mother by herself. Never mind that both my mother and my sister concealed from me the seriousness of my mother’s illness. To the point that when I came home for 2 weeks at Christmas and could have withdrawn from second semester and completed my degree later, they let me fly back to NYC thinking that my mother had a mild cold.

  110. 110.

    frosty

    @Citizen Alan: ​
     Perfect! That’s how all my choices go too, except you missed the part about obsessively ranking all the features of both choices in a spreadsheet for days.

  111. 111.

    Mousebumples

    @Steeplejack: if that’s true, I’m not sure what the score would be if they were calling it straight. (currently Heat by double digits)

    @japa21: Hah, you got there first

    Eta – and now a Celtics run. My words seem to have affected the karmic balance.

  115. 115.

    bbleh

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: @Suzanne: and “policies” likely has a fuzzy meaning in this context.  The large majority of people have little or no information about the actual policy positions of most politicians.  It is much closer to a gestalt, one that often is influenced at least as heavily by emotion &/or by perceived tribal loyalty as by fact or analysis.

    Knowing nothing about the particular situation, I would hypothesize that it’s not “omg how could you support his policies” so much as “omg how could you be one of them?“

  123. 123.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Citizen Alan: No, you didn’t. Fortunately for me, my few remaining family members are still sane. If not… They probably wouldn’t like me so much. (I am not shy.)

  125. 125.

    patrick II

    @Mousebumples: ​
     
    I have been a Celtics fan since the days of Bill Russell, but I find it difficult to root for a team that has Marcus Smart on it. He is the James Harden of defense, flopping so often it is hard to watch.

  126. 126.

    Suzanne

    @Ohio Mom: Thank you all.

    Though his death was sudden — a second heart attack — he had been in poor health for a while, and so his affairs are in order. In the last few years, he had been having seizures, and had incurred some injuries and significant mental impairment and personality changes from those. He wasn’t supposed to drive, but occasionally he would sneak out because he missed driving and he got lonely, and it has been a constant stressor for us all, worrying if he was going to cause an accident. When my MIL called this morning, she thought he was having another seizure. Oddly, finding out that he passed away this was is a bit comforting…. apparently he didn’t suffer, and he was at home, and he won’t linger with impairment. It’s very shocking to Mr. Suzanne and his brothers, but they are all finding a bit of peace knowing that he didn’t suffer.

  127. 127.

    Urza

    Late to the thread but I have to ask how relationships heal when you realize how evil/stupid/gullible they are, and then they think you’re part of the Illuminati and at least ok with molesting children if not doing it yourself.

  128. 128.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Soprano2: ​ Yep, I am not shy about it at all. These days, there is only one and he has learned not to bring politics up. I love the fucker like a brother and can’t turn my back on him. But he knows.

  129. 129.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Suzanne:

    condolences to you, Mr. Suzanne, and spawn.

    this is lovely:

    One of his more charming qualities was his ability to make gregarious, stream-of-consciousness conversation with anybody. He hated Trump. He is missed.

    May his memory be a blessing.

  133. 133.

    mvr

    My remaining close relative’s politics are fine (as were those of the close dead ones). We used to fight like cats and dogs, but that is now a long time ago. And I like her kids too. That actually has helped w the relationship.
    But I live in a very red state in an academic environment where I could just not have R friends. But that would be to withdraw from politics in an important way. The thing I’m trying to crack is how to communicate across vast disagreement. I’m not sure I’m any good at it. But given where I live giving up would be giving up.

  135. 135.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: I’m very sorry for you and yours.

    Thanks for the thumbnail sketch – we can tell he was a good human and that means a lot.

    Remember the good times.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  136. 136.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @mvr: ​ Well, you could do what I do, make your p/u into a rolling billboard of liberal politics as well as your hat and t-shirts, but some folks aren’t so comfortable with that approach. For what it’s worth, I’m 5’9″ and weighing (now that I’m, old, gray, and fat) 195 or so, and the only people to ever say anything at all to me have done so in whispers and their words generally amounted to, “Thank you.”

    ftr, I live in Washington County, Misery. Also ftr, folks stay away from me, I think because they are afraid of catching cooties.

  138. 138.

    mvr

    @OzarkHillbilly: My strategy was/is to join a conservation organization (or several) and see what that leads to. Not sure how that is going locally but is has given me a place to plug into some national level work that still involves interacting with folks I disagree with about a lot in a hopefully useful way.

  139. 139.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Mousebumples:

    Recently I saw too late someone asking if my nym referenced Picasso’s The Old Guitarist, which is possibly related to the more direct source, the poem by Wallace Stevens, “The Man with the Blue Guitar”:

    They said, “You have a blue guitar
    you do not play things as they are.”
    The man replied, “Things as they are, are changed upon the blue guitar.”
    And they said then, “But play, you must, a tune beyond us, yet ourselves….”

    I do sometimes play the blues on a blue guitar

  141. 141.

    Jim, Foolish Literlist

    I recently had dinner with some of my right wing cousins. We never talk politics, but I think they’d be shocked to know me and my siblings are all Dem-voting atheists, so was their favorite uncle. I do know they didn’t like trump in ’16, but I strongly suspect his SC choices won them over. They’re all hard core Catholics.

  142. 142.

    eclare

    @mvr:

    Yes, there are some strange overlaps with conservation groups.  My Republican aunt is a big supporter of Ducks Unlimited.

  145. 145.

    Suzanne

    @Quiltingfool: He was definitely good people. He was the kind of person who many people consider “a lot”… he had a big personality and a lifelong urge to roam and ramble. He collected interesting friends and stories. In the last few years, he had been having seizures and that had been wearing him down. He wasn’t able to get out of the house as much as he wanted, and he wasn’t supposed to drive anywhere.

  146. 146.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @mvr: ​I disagree with about a lot in a hopefully useful way.

    That is about the best we can hope for. I remember being in a barbershop and 2 guys were discussing expanded clips for their semi autos. One said, “It’s ridiculous! Do you know how long it takes me to change a clip?” And I piped up with, “Long enough to stop Jared Loughner.” and they STFU. I doubt very much either of them had any idea who JL was or how he was stopped, but if one of them went home and googled it, maybe, just maybe, it made them think.​
     
    eta: One observation I have made to many out here is that we all know somebody who has no business owning a gun. After a few moments 85-90% of the folks I say this too go, “You know what?…” and relate the time cousin Billy Bob got really stupid. If they can’t think of anyone, I tell them to look in the mirror.

  147. 147.

    Jeffro

    @Chetan Murthy:a lot of people think that the problem with TFG is that he behaves badly, has the wrong affect, is chaotic. They don’t think that the problem is that he’s a goddamn fascist and white supremacist misogynist racist who wants to destroy America. That part they think is just fine just fine.

    Exactly!  According to them, the right *kind* of white supremacist messenger, somehow, will deliver unto them their white supremacist utopia.

  148. 148.

    Quiltingfool

    I gingerly made my way down the basement steps to start working at my quilting machine.  After getting a new knee, going down steps is a bit challenging – going up is pretty easy, though.  Quilting is much easier with a new knee, yay!

    I have three quilts of my own to do, but I guess the Universe sent out a signal that I needed to quilt, because I got a call from a lady inquiring about my prices. Her mother died a few months ago, and when they went through her things, she and her father found 15 quilt tops.  Fortunately, they only sent me five.  The neighbor lady brought me two.  I know there is another lady who will hear the signal and be calling real soon.

    Quilting for others is not my favorite part, but I shouldn’t complain, it is money.  I’d love to sell the quilts I have, but there isn’t much interest as of late.  At least I have tons of fabric, no need to buy more!

  149. 149.

    eclare

    @Quiltingfool:

    That sounds like a lot of work!  Good luck with the new knee, in my experiences hiking going downhill was harder than going up.  A walking stick helps a lot, if you have a cane or skipole.

  150. 150.

    Suzanne

    @Quiltingfool: Okay, I have a question about quilting. The technology exists to make a line design or pattern in graphic software like Autocad, and then feed that design to a laser cutter or 3D printer. Does that technology exist in quilting? Like, could you draw something out and then have the quilting machine sew it, or at least transfer the lines on the fabric so you would know where to sew?

  151. 151.

    Wapiti

    @Jim, Foolish Literlist: my wife was shocked to discover that her dad was a solid Democrat; he was probably 80 or so at the time. But he grew up poor in the Depression; some remembered who helped them.

  152. 152.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Quiltingfool: ​ Do you have a website? I grew up with a flutterby blanket my paternal grandmother made (long before I was born)(I never knew her) I might be interested… If I can afford one.

  159. 159.

    patrick II

    @Jackie:

    I have been rooting for the underdog Heat, but I am afraid against the Nuggets they are going to be overmatched. Miami is a small team and Denver has some serious size in the frontcourt at 7’1, 6’10” and 6’10” and they are all skilled.

  160. 160.

    mvr

    @eclare: Worked on a big conservation project with DU. Their staff knows conservation. Their fundraising is local but goes to national org which decides how money is spent on the ground projects. Based on good analysis so far as I can tell. Which then run into local politics that in my state thwarts conservation goals all to often.

  162. 162.

    mvr

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks. I’m going to save that quip.

    The people I know are all in agreement about background checks and such and still send more money than I have to the NRA. (Exaggerating for effect.)

  166. 166.

    Avalie

    @Citizen Alan: Welcome to California! As a transplant from Oklahoma, I appreciate my adopted state even more than people born and raised in California. I expect the same will be true for you!

  167. 167.

    everanon

    trump destroyed america’s families because he never had a family

    he was always resentful begrudging anyone what he did not have and especially what he could not have

    the devastation he wrought, the delight and satisfaction he takes in destroying what he cannot possess, lord do i hate the man

    a house divided against itself cannot stand and so he divided us

    our families have fallen so too our country

  169. 169.

    2liberal

    @OzarkHillbilly:  Also ftr, folks stay away from me, I think because they are afraid of catching cooties.

     

    Liberal Cooties, soon to be a thing on Fox news.

  170. 170.

    HumboldtBlue

    A developing story: Casey DeSantis has mob connections. She’s the niece of Joey “Bananas” Bonanno of the Bonnano crime family of Pennsylvania/Ohio.

  171. 171.

    Another Scott

    Whitehouse.gov:

    Q Sir, what’s your message to House Democrats who have reservations about this compromise bill?

    THE PRESIDENT: “Talk to me.”

    Q And what would you tell them?

    THE PRESIDENT: I’m not going to tell you.

    Q Why not?

    THE PRESIDENT: Look, you guys all get on and say, “Tell them what a good deal it is.” How about — how about if this was 100 percent deal for the Democrats? Do you think it would help me get it passed?

    Q Well, who got the better deal?

    THE PRESIDENT: Wai- — do you think it’s going to help me get it passed? Come on.

    It’s amazing he can keep his cool and good humor after decades of dealing with these clowns…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  172. 172.

    Ramalama

    This former Illinois corn de-tassler (it paid better than McDonalds for 14 year olds but fck was it the worst job) … went to a wedding of my great and good high school friend who was a Trumper, along with the majority of attendees. She thought he would secretly be liberal. No, she is not an idiot. Yes I was bitter toward her after he fell into the presidency. I was at the non-trump table at her wedding. Including lesbian couple, a white guy who wrote jokes for a local radio station, and a bunch of black people, three of whom were war vets from the US Army. We avoided mixing words with her Trump friends, until at the end of the evening a few of them just could not contain themselves any longer and wanted us to be for Trump. To agree with them. One guy had to be physically pulled away from us after we didn’t want to fight him.

    This was before all hell broke loose (.com). During Covid we yelled at each other online.

    Things have started warming up some. I agree that we will not make it as friends if he gets re-elected, even if she doesn’t vote for him, the second time around.

  173. 173.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Chetan Murthy:

    I’ve read that Shasta County is pretty dire.  And dangerous.

    it is. But fortunately it’s 200+ miles north of Fresno, and you’d probably only drive through it on the 5 on the way to Oregon. Bakersfield to the south of Fresno is a deep, deep Red area that I’d also avoid.

  174. 174.

    Kayla Rudbek

    And in other news, I have managed to finish off another weaving project in one day (estimated about 300 yards total of cheap cotton dishcloth yarn, I have to weigh out the weft yarn and do some math to figure out how much I used).  So far, weaving is more time efficient and knitting is more materials efficient.

    But I think that I may need to borrow my sibling’s long rectangular dining room table to properly put the warp yarn onto the loom, as apparently the loom itself should be clamped down during the process.  My godson might like seeing the process, but I don’t think that I can get the loom over there on the bike unless I buy a different bag for it and put the trailer onto the tandem. I don’t think that the assembled loom would fit into a pannier, and I’m not taking it apart. 

  175. 175.

    HumboldtBlue

    @HumboldtBlue:

    A developing story: Casey DeSantis has mob connections. She’s the niece of Joey “Bananas” Bonanno of the Bonnano crime family of Pennsylvania/Ohio.

    I should qualify — it’s not confirmed yet, just a lot of smoke. Worth watching, though.

  177. 177.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: Yes and it’s existed for decades. My mom has a Husqvarna that takes 3.5″ floppy disks. Things are much better now but still.

  178. 178.

    Jackie

    @Wapiti: That was my Dad. Joining the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) in his teens helped him help his family when they were dirt poor. He never forgot and was a rock solid Democrat his entire life. He was pro-choice and pro birth control when both became legal. Oh yah, he raised three teenaged daughters in the late ‘60s and early’70s 🥰

  179. 179.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Suzanne: I remember years and years ago Kevin Drum had a post about quilting technology.  His partner (Marian?) quilts a ton, and he wrote about how it was in many ways kind of like programming.  I forget, and maybe I’m misremembering.  Searched just now, can’t find the post.  But then, it was in the noughties, I think.

  180. 180.

    Ramalama

    @JMG:

    It’s natural if mistaken for the idea that old age means dramatic decline to resonate with them. It speaks to their own experiences.

    Yes! Especially dementia and other related ailments. Memory care for the elderly with some kind of dementia is shite in the US. My USA family learning the very hard way that even though they live in a great state that offers MORE than any other state services for the elderly? It’s not enough. I joined a group online to help deal with in-laws in Quebec (the group is mostly Americans). It’s unbelievable how bad everyone’s got it and no one’s doing enough to alleviate the suffering of the overburdened surviving family. Goddammit.

  183. 183.

    Another Scott

    @HumboldtBlue: In other Florida news…

    Sun-Sentinel.com:

    HOLLYWOOD — A dispute between two groups ended in gunfire on the crowded Hollywood Broadwalk near the end of the Memorial Day weekend, leaving nine people shot, including a 1-year-old child, police say.

    As the shooting unfolded on the crowded beachside destination, people began running from the Broadwalk toward safety. Good Samaritans and paramedics went to help those who were shot.

    Of the nine wounded, five are adults, ranging in age from 25 to 65. The four wounded youth range in age from 1 to 17 years old, said spokesperson Deanna Bettineschi. All nine were taken to the hospital, one person was in surgery and the rest of the shooting victims are in stable condition, Bettineschi said during a news conference held about 10:30 p.m.

    One suspect was in custody, and police were searching for a second suspect, she said earlier Monday evening.

    […]

    “Our beach has millions of beachgoers a year. It’s a very popular and beautiful destination,” Levy said. “This is a never before occurrence. Ordinarily it’s a peaceful beach.”

    Nobody could have predicted! It’s such a mystery how this mass shooting happened! They never happen in beautiful peaceful places visited by crowds of people..!!1

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  185. 185.

    kalakal

    @Quiltingfool: Glad to hear the new knee is going well. The first few months are pretty brutal but it made a world of difference to Mrs kalakal and sounds like it’s doing the same for you.

  186. 186.

    karen marie

    @JMG:  You’re so adorable.  People think Biden is too old because the both-sides media have been running the GOP’s messaging  since day 1 of the Biden administration.  “He’s too old.”  “He’s senile.”

    There’s a non-zero number of people who would have thought those things on their own but that so many people believe it is entirely due to the grotesque failure of the both-sides media to grow the fuck up.

  187. 187.

    No One You Know

    @Mousebumples:

    I like that painting, too. Reminds me of a poem:

    The man bent over the blue guitar,/a shearsman of sorts. The day was green. /

    They said, play upon the blue guitar/of things exactly as they are. / The man replied, /

    “Things as they are/are changed upon the blue guitar.”/

    They said, “But play you must,/ a tune beyond us, yet ourselves,/ a tune upon the blue guitar/ Of things exactly as they are.”

  188. 188.

    Quiltingfool

    @Suzanne: You can buy quilting machines that use a computer to guide the machine.  All kinds of patterns are available to download, and I’m going to say you could design your own pattern and download it.  Most quilters I know that have computerized machines do “edge to edge” repeating patterns.  If you’re really good, you can program the computer to do different designs in the blocks, sashing, etc.

    I don’t have a computerized quilting machine (they are pretty neat, I’ve used one before), I do freehand.  Let’s just say you will get a unique design, won’t ever be replicated, lol!

  189. 189.

    Eolirin

    @karen marie: Part of why that particular media drumbeat works is because it’s reflective of people’s lives.

    Yeah without the media bullshit people probably don’t go there, but other attempts at smears fail because they don’t connect; attempts to make Biden scary or threatening don’t work, for instance.

  191. 191.

    Quiltingfool

    @OzarkHillbilly: Just click on my nym, it will take you to my Etsy website.   You are a valued member of Balloon Juice (as well as being a fellow Missourian, and a spelunker) so you would get a discount!

    I want to help Ukrainians, so I’m thinking about donating half of the quilt cost to the Ukrainian charities on the sidebar.  That way, my material costs are covered.  I love making quilts, but I’ve got to do something with them!

  192. 192.

    karen marie

    @Eolirin:   I can be more effective at robbing banks if I have a gun.  Just because it’s effective doesn’t mean it’s right.

    It wouldn’t be effective if the compliant media wasn’t trickling it into the viewing public’s ears on a daily basis for two years.

  193. 193.

    Quiltingfool

    @kalakal: I’m telling you what, the money for this knee is the best money I’ve spent in a long time!  Nothing hurts when I stand to cook, or quilt, or anything else!  There is some stiffness, but that will recede over time.

  197. 197.

    JGreen

    @Sister Golden Bear:   Those of us still working, eh?  That reminds me of a joke (everything reminds me of a joke).

    Guy comes up to me and says “Could I borrow 10 bucks until payday?”.

    I say “When’s payday?”.

    He says “You oughta know.  You’re the one that’s working”.

    I got a million of them.  They’re not original, but they’re good.

  198. 198.

    kindness

    I know it’s a regular internet meme and all but I don’t think Biden is universally unliked.  Honestly, it’s Republican upside downism.  Biden is widely liked.  The media does a great job of playing up his age but his actions as president have been stellar considering the hand he’s been given.

  199. 199.

    thalarctosMaritimus

    @Suzanne: I’m so sorry to hear about your father-in-law’s passing. He sounds like a wonderful man. I hope your memories of him will bring you solace.

  200. 200.

    Avalie

    @NotMax: just like the book, I have lots of family members that headed out to California. Some stayed, others went back…

  202. 202.

    The Lodger

    @Citizen Alan: JFK died when I was nine. That taught me not to spend a lot of time considering how healthy any president would be in several years’ time. Right now, Biden is doing great. I have no way to know how fit he will be at the end of his next term, but I’m certain he’ll be in better shape than trump.

  204. 204.

    ian

    @Baud: Not a chance.  The problem isn’t Trump. (although he is certainly a big problem in many ways)  The problem is the media these people consume.  It could be Trump, DeSantis, or even by some clearly god-ordained miracle Mike Pence, and the Republican base would act the same way.

    This article doesn’t get it, which makes me suspect that Will Leitch doesn’t really get Republicans.

  207. 207.

    Ruckus

    @Another Scott:

    It’s amazing he can keep his cool and good humor after decades of dealing with these clowns…

    It’s because he’s been dealing with them for decades that he knows that keeping his cool and good humor really, really, screws with the clowns minds. He doesn’t let them get to him, and that gets to them.

  212. 212.

    Denali5

    @Alan,

    Best wishes for your new life in California. We loved it while we were there.

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