Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

When we show up, we win.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”

Cancel the cowardly Times and Post and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Bark louder, little dog.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

If rights aren’t universal, they are privilege, not rights.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Credit Where Credit Is Due

Credit Where Credit Is Due

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For some reason, this sentence makes me ridiculously happy!

“Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.”

~ Aaron Rupar

Also, why do all of Trump’s female attorneys look like Barbie?
(Apologies to Barbie, it’s not her fault)

Oh, and everyone probably knows already, but we have a date!
April 2026

March 4, 2024

PSA:  Look for a guest post from Valdivia on Tuesday early evening about the women’s soccer players in Spain.  They are standing up for all of us.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

197Comments

  1. 1.

    Sister Golden Bear

    “Irony Trumps legal defense jumps the track, careens wildly down the embankment, smashes through a circus, bulldozes a mink farm, and plows into the river, where it bursts into flame, then rolls over and explodes, raining down smoking clown shrapnel and flaming weasels over a terrified countryside.” — Stonekettle

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    “You don’t have to prep much when you’ve done nothing wrong” may be the most hilarious statement about Trump ever uttered. It’s right up there with the “Jeffery Dahmer doesn’t even OWN an oven.” defense.

    I’d love to observe Trump’s lawyer vetting process in action.

  5. 5.

    lee

    The way that so many folks are supporting the female Spanish players (including some male players). Is really great. I can’t wait for the guest post!

  6. 6.

    dmsilev

    This bit from the hearing was …special:

    Judge: Trial Date Will Not Be Set To Accommodate Personal Schedule Of Defendant

    She offers an illustration, saying it would not be the court’s problem for an athlete, for example, to claim they have a conflict with their competition schedule.
    She also tells lawyers that delay is a known tactic used by defendants and she is aware of Trump’s other trials.

    “Don’t you know who my client is? He’s a big important man, with big important things to do”

    “Don’t care. Trial date set.”

  8. 8.

    bbleh

    Hah!  I bet on March.  I win!

    Also legal eagles, can a judge use this sort of statement by an attorney on TV in deciding when to schedule a trial?  I don’t see why s/he shouldn’t, but perhaps there are Reasons.

  10. 10.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    I, for one, hope that the verdict drops on 15 March.

    To early? Not with all the obvious guilt.

  11. 11.

    oldster

    It’s true that the other side has 4 different teams of lawyers assembled by top career prosecutors who have extensive experience in complex trials.

    But Trump will have no problem in assembling 4 all-star teams of defense lawyers on his side; after all, he is a multi-billionaire with nearly infinite cash at his disposal, who has an impeccable record for always paying all of his legal bills promptly.

    Yeah, it’s going to be a debacle that will make fiascos look good. Once the other defendants themselves start taking counsel aside and saying, “you know that I wound up under indictment because I did legal work for him, right? And you know he has never paid me, right?”, I think there’s a good chance that tfg will wind up appearing pro se.

  15. 15.

    WaterGirl

    @Jackie: I’m gonna have to side with bleh on this.  All the internet lawyers I follow believe that, yes, there will always be delays, but the original date set for trial is kind of everything.

    If they had set it for August or even July or September, I think it would be game over, and not in a good way.

  16. 16.

    LAO

    Since this is an open tread I have a PSA for everyone: super scary situation happened to a neighbor of mine. About 4 months ago, she fell on the street, she broke her wrist, injured her other hand and knocked a tooth out. Unbeknownst to her, she suffered a serious head injury. Fast forward a couple of months, she started having balance issues. She goes to a neurologist, he proscribes an MRI. SHE DOES NOTHING!

    2 months later, she falls a couple of times and finally schedules the MRI. Turns out she had a cerebral hemorrhage.  She’s whisked into surgery. Scary.

    moral of the story: don’t fuck around with head injuries.

  17. 17.

    topclimber

    @Jim Appleton: Perhaps it has to do with the nature of what is burning in said dumpster. Given that Trump fuels this one, yeah you want to be “against” this particular one. Sadly, though, we can’t really get far away from it.

  19. 19.

    Jackie

    TIFG’s calendar is getting fuller!

    ”“Donald Trump will be arraigned next Wednesday in Georgia over charges he and 18 co-defendants sought to overturn the state’s election results,” The Hill reports.”

    ““Trump’s arraignment has been set for Sept. 6 at 9:30 a.m., the first of all the defendants, who are charged in a sweeping racketeering case alleging they joined a criminal enterprise bent on keeping Trump in power.””

  22. 22.

    bbleh

    @Jackie: @WaterGirl: woohoo! I win again!

    As to my question, I think it was answered in the DC hearing today, when the prosecutor used public statements by both TIFG and his lawyers in argument.

    It seems like they just can’t help themselves …

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    “so, just get the trial delayed past the election, and if we win, I’ll pardon myself and if we don’t, I’ll just declare I’m running again for president in 2028…they won’t be able to prosecute because then that’s ELECTION INTERFERENCE, AGAIN, BOOM!  problem solved!!”

    “um, sir…”

    “god I am smart!  the ‘Teflon Don’ had nothing on THIS Don, am I right?  I’m right!”

    “um sir…”

    ” ‘Smart’ doesn’t really even cover it, it’s more like…”BRILLIANT!”

    “sir…never mind…”

  24. 24.

    Jeffro

    @trollhattan: I’d love to observe Trump’s lawyer vetting process in action.

    “oops, I dropped a pencil…would you mind picking that up for me, Ms. Habb…Ms. Habbababba…whatever…?”

    gross but true

  25. 25.

    Jeffro

    @LAO: thank you for the PSA!

    In my case, my head is so hard it’s the sidewalk/street that better watch out, but point still taken.  =)

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    @Jackie: What I love is that all 19 of them are scheduled for the same day, in 15-minute increments.

    Message to Donald:  You are no better than the rest of them.  I hope he is scheduled in the middle of the pack, not the first and not the last.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    Look for a guest post from Valdivia on Tuesday early evening about the women’s soccer players in Spain.

    Fabuloso!

  29. 29.

    Baud

    OT Via Reddit

    Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

    Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

  30. 30.

    Jeffro

    Ramaswamy: the new trump, right down to the details

    re: Rep Ayanna Pressley:  What did she do to supposedly warrant Ramaswamy saying that she was using “the words of the modern grand wizards of the modern KKK?” She reportedly said, “We don’t need any more brown faces that don’t want to be a brown voice.”

    “For Ayanna Pressley to tell me that, because of my skin color, I can’t express my views, that is wrong. It is divisive. It is driving hatred in this country,” Ramaswamy said. “This is dividing our country to a breaking point.” You may recall that, during the debate, Ramaswamy declared that the country was in a state of “cold cultural civil war.”

    The political strategy here is the one Trump deployed in 2015. Cast the left and your opponents as deeply tainted and use the most strident rhetoric possible to describe them. If anyone pushes back, you double down and reframe as needed. Arguments don’t need to be consistent beyond “the left is bad, and the right are victims.”

    Actually, this is the old Gingrich playbook: “Tale as old as time…Tune as old as song…Bittersweet and strange…Finding you can’t change…Learning you’re never wrong...”

  33. 33.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl: He is scheduled first.  Link

    Former President Donald Trump will be the first of 19 co-defendants arraigned on Sept. 6 in a sweeping Georgia racketeering case accusing the group of scheming to overturn the state’s 2020 election results, according to court dockets.

    At 9:30 a.m., Trump will hear the 13 felony charges he faces and then is expected to enter a not guilty plea. Soon after, at 9:45 a.m., his former attorney Rudy Giuliani will go through the same process. Their co-defendants will continue in a 15-minute-increment procession until 3:15 p.m., with a one-hour lunch break at noon.

  37. 37.

    LAO

    @WaterGirl: The main thing we’re going to find out on arraignment day is who’s going to trial with Cheseboro and the Kraken. Should be interesting.

  38. 38.

    Bupalos

    “These aren’t complicated cases, look at Fani, it was a phone call that’s been around….”

    Took me a full 5 seconds to figure out what this meant, and then “oh, of course, they’re going to name the cases by the black women associated with them. Duh.”

  39. 39.

    ArchTeryx

    TFG sure learned the wrong lessons on how he was propagandized and thumb-scaled into the presidency, didn’t he? He mostly didn’t bother campaigning and when he did, made every mistake possible. And still won.

    Now he thinks that’ll work forever afterward. Maybe it’s whistling past the graveyard, but judges seem far less impressed with his carnival barker schtick than his cult is.

  40. 40.

    CaseyL

    @LAO: I haven’t had any injuries remotely like that, but I have been very wary of head injuries ever since Natasha Richardson died of brain injuries hours after crashing into a tree while skiiing, insisting (until she became unconscious) that all she had was a headache.

    If I ever hit my head falling, or by something falling onto me, or by crashing into something, I will hie myself to an ER immediately (provided, of course, I’m in any condition to do so).

  41. 41.

    Jeffro

    Fox News headline: “TRUMP LAWYERS HIT BACK AFTER JUDGE SETS TRIAL DATE SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF ELECTION CHAOS”

    Just look at that shit!  ‘HIT BACK’ = “your guy is still fighting, MAGA!  Stay fired up!”  And they wonder why the blessed GOP base can’t be reasoned with.

    (The ‘hit back’ was Lauro saying he wouldn’t be able to provide adequate representation given a 3/4/24 trial date, btw – oooooh, savage ‘hit’!)

  42. 42.

    ArchTeryx

    @Jeffro: That’s classic politics, sadly. I see the sort of verbage turning politics into a wrestling match all the time on the Great Orange Satan.

  43. 43.

    Jackie

    Did this opinion piece by President Biden get posted?

     

    ”Vice President Harris and I came into office determined to change the economic direction of the country and grow the economy from the middle out and bottom up, not the top down. Our plan — Bidenomics — is working. Because of the major laws and executive orders I’ve signed — from the American Rescue Plan, the bipartisan infrastructure law, the Chips and Science Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, my executive orders on racial equity and more — we’re advancing equity in everything we do making unprecedented investments in all of America, including for Black Americans.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/27/joe-biden-king-march-on-washington-jobs-freedom/

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    @Jeffro:SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF ELECTION CHAOS

    And why, pray tell, does it have to be “chaos?” Oh, sorry, forgot about Trump branding.

  45. 45.

    Roger Moore

    @bbleh: ​
     

    Also legal eagles, can a judge use this sort of statement by an attorney on TV in deciding when to schedule a trial? I don’t see why s/he shouldn’t, but perhaps there are Reasons.

    IANAL, but I think the judge is not supposed to go looking for this kind of stuff on their own. Now if the prosecution sees the defense making this kind of statement, they’re perfectly free to include it in their reply brief explaining why they think the originally requested date is fine, and the judge can certainly take that into account.

  47. 47.

    Baud

    @Jeffro:

    TRUMP LAWYERS HIT BACK AFTER JUDGE SETS TRIAL DATE SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF ELECTION CHAOS

     
    I’ll say this for Fox, it completely understands the nature of the Republican Party.

  49. 49.

    Shalimar

    @Jeffro: Mrs.  His last name is Reuben.  Always left out of recitations of Habba’s vast legal experience representing parking garages is that her current husband owns the company.

  51. 51.

    LAO

    @Roger Moore: I think framing the issue of whether a court may consider extra-judicial information (facts outside the courtroom and related legal proceedings) isn’t completely accurate. A judge may certainly consider whether an attorney makes arguments outside the courtroom that are inconsistent with what they say/do inside the courtroom in evaluating the credibility of the attorney.  And credibility is very important.

  52. 52.

    Geminid

    @WereBear: Congratulations! Do the Cat Writers have a branch in Turkiye? Cats seem to have a special place in that country. Someone put out a documentary about the cats of Istanbul a few years ago.

  55. 55.

    Gravenstone

    CNN was kind enough to contextualize 3/4/24 as the day before the “Super Tuesday” primaries. Trump is probably howling like a scalded critter after learning that little tidbit.

  57. 57.

    ArchTeryx

    @p.a.: It won’t work. A lot of these cardinals and bishops consider themselves holier than the Pope, and quite a few have told Pope Francis to sod off. That should get every one of them excommunicated, but heaven forbid they should take on their own. Even mass pedophilia wasn’t enough for that, why would a little matter like being pro-fascism?

  58. 58.

    cain

    @Jackie: March! Think how much money is going to be going into his legal fund stealing all the money away from the other candidates in other races.

    He’s going to be convicted multiple times – he’s going to try to try to appeal to the supreme court – who if they were smart will turn it down – otherwise, some shit is going to go down. Meanwhile, the mood is going to turn vicious – if the GOP doesn’t get behind Trump – including handing him all the funds to pay for the legal battles – it’s going to be bad.

    Trump is going to bankrupt the GOP and their donors.

  60. 60.

    cain

    @Jeffro: Trust me – that motherfucker is going to start talking about caste shit as well. He’ll start trying to divide the Indian community here.

    #ETA whoa.. #50 to #60!!

  61. 61.

    Ken

    @WaterGirl: This is the part where the judge reads the charges and the defendants just say guilty, not guilty, or no contest?  So the only real time-sink is the reading, and I assume the judge rehearsed that and found it was about 10 minutes.

    There might be some excitement if one or more plead guilty, or no contest; I’d guess that would mean some deal is in the works.

  64. 64.

    cain

    @ArchTeryx: I’m afraid that the pope should mass ex-communicate these bozos and ban them from entering vatican city or have any kind of support from the catholic church.

  67. 67.

    Alison Rose

    @zhena gogolia: It’s driving me nuts that people keep saying it wrong, especially since (while I recognize Fanny is a name some women have) the mispronunciation makes it sound almost like mockery or something. And I’m 99% sure that everyone on the right who does this is doing so on purpose

    No, my name ain’t Fanny

    It’s Fani

    Ms. Willis if you’re nasty

  68. 68.

    dnfree

    @LAO: We know a family where the mother (probably early 70s in age) was found standing in the kitchen over the stove, stirring a spoon in an empty pan, staring blankly.  They woke her up, she seemed okay, and they did nothing further.  Two months later she died suddenly, and they apparently didn’t do an autopsy.  But no one who knew the family could believe they hadn’t taken her to the doctor after the first incident.

  70. 70.

    Ishiyama

    Re: Trump’s lawyers’ performances (in court & on screen): Makes me think of Billy the Mountain and Studebaker Hawk; “A mountain is something, you don’t want to f-ck with, don’t f-ck around, don’t f-ck around”.

  73. 73.

    Redshift

    @Jackie:

    He’s scheduled first, so let’s see how long he hogs the clock – thus messing up the time schedule for everyone else.

    I feel like he’s generally minimized his time in court, because it’s a setting where he has to behave and isn’t in charge (and this procedure will likely be televised.) Sticking it to them by messing up the schedule probably won’t outweigh that.

  74. 74.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Baud: Yeah, and on the other hand, Frankie

    tells Russians to be inspired by their legacy as heirs of “the Great Russia of Peter the Great and Catherine II, of that Great Russian Empire, enlightened, of so much culture and so much humanity.”

    They are demonstrating their culture and humanity right now, in fact.

  76. 76.

    Redshift

    @Alison Rose:

    It’s driving me nuts that people keep saying it wrong, especially since (while I recognize Fanny is a name some women have) the mispronunciation makes it sound almost like mockery or something. And I’m 99% sure that everyone on the right who does this is doing so on purpose

    They absolutely are. Nobody refers to the federal cases with “Jack.” If she was white and male it would be her full name or DA Willis, and if they were trying to be disrespectful, they’d do it some other way.

  77. 77.

    Redshift

    @cain:

    I don’t think any of his lawyers are going to want him to say anything as he will either perjure himself or make threats.

    Good point. That, too.

  79. 79.

    TriassicSands

    @trollhattan: “You don’t have to prep much when you’ve done nothing wrong” 

    What she meant to say was, “You don’t have to prep much when you live in a fantasy world and only you know the ‘facts’.”

    @Alison Rose: To be fair, tic tac toe is probably quite complex for TIFG’s half-dozen brain cells.

    Yes, but his lawyer majored in Tic, Tac, Toe as an undergraduate, so he’s all set.

  80. 80.

    Scout211

    Update: ABC live updates.

    Meadows: ‘I don’t know that I did anything that was outside of my role’
    Court is in a brief recess after Mark Meadows testified for nearly three hours without breaks.

    On the stand, Meadows firmly stood by his actions — including observing the audit in Cobb County, Georgia, and setting up then-President Donald Trump’s call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger — putting it squarely as part of his role as chief of staff.

  81. 81.

    trollhattan

    Speaking of Republican dipshits [repeating myself] DeSatan tries to have it boff ways. It does not pan out.

    Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has been loudly booed at a vigil for victims of a racially motivated shooting.

    The Republican candidate for president was heckled in Jacksonville, where hundreds gathered on Sunday to remember the three victims of the attack. He was forced to step back from the microphone before a member of the city council asked the crowd to listen.

    “It ain’t about parties today,” Ju’Coby Pittman said, adding: “A bullet don’t know a party.”

    Mr DeSantis, 44, who has loosened gun laws in the state and faced criticism from civil rights leaders for targeting what he calls “woke ideology”, eventually spoke and called the gunman a “scumbag” which prompted applause from some of the crowd.

    Around 200 people attended the vigil, which took place in a predominantly black area just yards away from the Dollar General shop where the shooting happened the previous day.

    Twenty-one year old Ryan Christopher Palmeter fired eleven rounds at 52 year-old Angela Carr who was sitting in her vehicle, before entering the shop and shooting another two people dead.

    Anolt Laguerre Jr, 19, worked at the Dollar General and was killed as he tried to flee. Jerrald De’Shaun Gallion, 29, was shot dead as he entered the premises. Another woman was chased but managed to escape.

    As police arrived, the attacker turned a gun on himself and died at the scene. An AR-15 semi-automatic rifle and a Glock handgun, both legally obtained, were used in the shooting.

    Thoughts, prayers and groin kicks, governor.

  82. 82.

    Scout211

    More updates:

    Mark Meadows said on the stand that he wasn’t sure whether the lawyers on then-President Donald Trump’s phone call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger were Trump’s personal attorneys or lawyers for the Trump campaign.

    The prosecutor then asked Meadows if he didn’t know what roles they had then “why did you want them on the call?” At that moment the judge shook his head in seeming bewilderment.

    Meadows said the purpose of the phone call was to find a “less litigious way” to resolve an issue regarding signature match in Fulton County, Georgia

    . . .

    He said Trump himself asked to reach out to Raffensperger.

    Asked about his conversations with Cleta Mitchell, one of the three lawyers involved in the call, Meadows said he spoke with her about a variety of aspects related to Georgia and alleged election fraud but said he doesn’t recall the specifics.

     

    Hmmm, lots of “I didn’t knows” and “I can’t recalls” from Meadows.

    ETA: additional update added

  84. 84.

    TriassicSands

    @cain: I don’t think any of his lawyers are going to want him to say anything as he will either perjure himself or make threats.

    Apparently, Trump can’t commit perjury, because he believes every word that comes out of his gaping maw. I’m surprised this hasn’t been the defense in every perjury case in history. I mean who could disagree that if the guy believes what he’s saying, then in its own way it’s true? That seems to be Trump’s whole approach to life.

    “I won the popular vote.” (versus HRC).

    “It was the biggest crowd ever for an inauguration.”

    “I was the greatest president in history.”

    “I made a perfect phone call.” (Not once, but twice.)

    He’s soooooo convincing!

    Note: It doesn’t matter if those are exact quotes, because I BELIEVE they are. Hey, if it’s good enough for our greatest president, it’s good enough for me.

  89. 89.

    KrackenJack

    There was some debate about about whether Meadows would take the stand. The consensus was that the risks were too high.

    Guess he knows better. /s

  94. 94.

    TriassicSands

    @trollhattan:

    I’ve wondered that constantly as I read one opinion piece after another that claims convicting Trump will be really difficult because he believed he really won the election

    Oh, plus, the rules are different for ex-presidents.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    @LAO: to be fair, I know from experience that getting an MRI when you need one can involve a protracted fight with your insurance company, so I’m not surprised people would just put that off.

  97. 97.

    john b

    I just wish the judge would reply to Trump’s complaints about timing with “No one’s forcing you to run for President.” This sort of shit would never fly with the 99%:
    “But, Judge, I have a big work presentation on the trial date!”
    “Not my problem”

  99. 99.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Old School:

    Lord knows I was no fan of Joe the Plumber, but I wouldn’t wish pancreatic cancer on anyone. Condolences to his friends and family.

  100. 100.

    Geminid

    @SiubhanDuinne: Trump’s legal troubles will suck up a lot of cash, and so will Senate primary fights in Ohio and Arizona among other states. Their House candidates may have some expensive primary contests also.

  103. 103.

    tobie

    @LAO: This happened to my grandmother in the early 80s. She was walking in Manhattan, a truck was coming toward her, so she stepped backward and tripped on the curb. She went to the doctor, he said it was was nothing but some superficial bruises on her forehead. She had multiple ministrokes over the next two weeks and landed in a semi-coma that lasted for 6 years. (No life support but you couldn’t deny a feeding tube at the time without a court order.) The whole episode destroyed my mother. I’ve come to the conclusion that any wound in an old person is serious business.

  104. 104.

    Sure Lurkalot

    Supposedly Meadows’ counsel (George Terwilliger) is top notch but many of the legal pundits are questioning the move to have him testify. His testimony seems to be a mix of stepping on his own dick or not remembering anything.

  105. 105.

    Roger Moore

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     

    I know from experience that getting an MRI when you need one can involve a protracted fight with your insurance company, so I’m not surprised people would just put that off.

    Which is exactly the kind of thing that results in the US having worse health outcomes. If it’s not people putting off necessary care to avoid dealing with insurance company bureaucracy, it’s insurance company bureaucracy denying people necessary care to try to save a few pennies.

  106. 106.

    West of the Rockies

    Is there any news or movement on Trump’s NY trial?  Could that ultimately include jail time or just fines?

    It seems like the D.C. case, Georgia and Florida cases are far more consequential.

  107. 107.

    hotshoe

    @Gin & Tonic: ​

    The Russian Orthodoxy isn’t Catholic and isn’t even nominally in Pope’s dominion.
    Why does Pope Francis imagine that he has any influence in Russia?
    Sin of pride. Sin of thinking that he is such a good man that everyone everywhere in the world will be inspired to betterment by his words.
    Fake humility. Fake reasonableness.

    I despise the Catholic empire with their smug belief that they are the voice of humanity’s better selves.

  108. 108.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @oldster: ​
     I’m sending you an invoice for cleaning up all the sarcasm that spilled out of my monitor onto my desk with this single post.

  109. 109.

    Jeffro

    @Gravenstone: CNN was kind enough to contextualize 3/4/24 as the day before the “Super Tuesday” primaries. Trump is probably howling like a scalded critter after learning that little tidbit.

    It would be nice if they could contextualize that for 240+ years of American history, 99.99% of American politicians would simply resign and/or drop out of public life forever when hit with $5M defamation judgement, 90+ felony charges, etc etc etc.  Or that previously, the losers didn’t try to overthrow the government.  (See also, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Bush Sr, Dole, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Romney, Clinton)

    But no.  Because trump is a fucking psycho, we all get to fight it out all the way through, and the part the media wants to focus on is the impact of all these trials on poor trump’s “campaign” schedule.

  110. 110.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Scout211: Yeah, that’s utter horseshit, and the prosecution will prove it.  Meadows’ ass is grass, Fani is the lawnmower.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @TriassicSands:Apparently, Trump can’t commit perjury, because he believes every word that comes out of his gaping maw. I’m surprised this hasn’t been the defense in every perjury case in history. I mean who could disagree that if the guy believes what he’s saying, then in its own way it’s true?

    this + perpetually declaring you’re running for president = immunity from everything!  totes AWESOME!!

    I’ll be right back, I’m going to try it out at the nearest bank.  I believe it’s all my money and btw did I mention I’m running for prez?

  114. 114.

    TriassicSands

    @oldster:

    Trump has a virtually infinite amount of money available for legal fees, since his bills are all paid by his cult members and they will take out second and third mortgages on their houses in order to keep the money flowing. The true believers will sell their children to raise money if need be.

    However, paying his bills isn’t as much of a problem as is finding lawyers who are suitable. One difficulty is that there aren’t very many combination law and clown schools in the U.S. Many potential lawyers may not be able to take time away from children’s birthday parties at which they’ve already agreed to appear. I mean, little Johnny and Debbie aren’t going to accept the excuse that their clowns are needed elsewhere to represent former president Trump. Priorities!

  116. 116.

    OverTwistWillie

    I mean sure, DeSantis’ bundlers want to move on and clear the field for not Trump. But fronting Casey the $350-400 million needed to shiv a sitting GOP senator and win the general? That would be fucking crazy.

    She’ll cut a sidecar deal to walk Ron out of the race, and then bye-bye.

  118. 118.

    TriassicSands

    @Jeffro:

    I already tried it and they just handed over the entire contents of the vault without even asking for my campaign slogan.

    Next stop? Fort Knox. They’ve had my gold long enough.

  119. 119.

    hueyplong

    @Jeffro: I’m delusional, so I lack the mens rea to commit these crimes, yet I am the only one who can lead the most powerful nation on earth. Vote for me, but give me money first.

  120. 120.

    SteverinoCT

    @CaseyL: Steve Allen the comedian was in a minor fender-bender on his way to his son’s house. He arrived, and then said he was a bit tired and was going to lie down. Internal bleeding: never woke up. Being a NE Patriots fan, I would mention Drew Bledsoe, but the odds of being tackled by a lineman are pretty low for the run-of-the-mill jackal.

  121. 121.

    JoyceH

    @trollhattan: ​
     

    Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has been loudly booed at a vigil for victims of a racially motivated shooting.

    And the booers were chided. Dang it, guys, watch your manners, this is a VIGIL!

    Can I just say how exasperated I have become about this whole Panoply Of Grief that has grown up around these increasingly common atrocities? The first few times it was no doubt spontaneous, but it’s become stylized and routine. There’s the Memorial with the flowers and the pictures and the candles and the teddy bears. There’s of course the Vigil, with speakers promising ‘we’ll come back from this stronger’, and there is always the insistence that the locality is [Place Name] Strong (unless the mass killing happened in a school, in which case they’re [Team Name] Strong).

    Pretty soon we’ll have professional Community Grief Planners, like wedding planners but for mass shootings. Advising on correct placement of the memorial, the arrangement of speakers for the Vigil, and so on. I picture a bustling woman with lots of scarves and big sunglasses, hissing into her cellphone, “Dammit, we need more teddy bears, this was a school!”

  122. 122.

    Suzanne

    Ehhhhh. Last few days have been nutty. Spawn the Younger started school today (seventh grade, holy cannoli), and sports and dance and all that stuff is getting back into the swing of things. And SuzMom’s hip replacement was rescheduled for 9/8. So she had two medical appointments this morning and then two more on Thursday. Her brother came out to spend a couple of days with her to help keep her spirits up. I haven’t seen him in a couple of years, and he has aged rapidly and lost a ton of weight and doesn’t look great. So I spent the last few days busy hosting and trying to keep my mom as chill and low-pain as possible.

    Any time you hear some jackass say that “in Canada, they have long waits for healthcare!”….ask them if they have been to America ever.

  123. 123.

    Jeffro

    @TriassicSands: I already tried it and they just handed over the entire contents of the vault without even asking for my campaign slogan.

    Next stop? Fort Knox. They’ve had my gold long enough.

    Just keep a copy of your candidate filing form on you in case the Knoxians want to see it and you should be good to go!

  125. 125.

    Jackie

    Is it upside down day?

    “A judge on Monday sentenced an Ohio attorney to three years in prison for illegally voting in the last two general elections, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.”

    He voted for TIFG four times! And is actually going to serve jail time!👍🏻

  126. 126.

    TriassicSands

    @Suzanne: Any time you hear some jackass say that “in Canada, they have long waits for healthcare!”….ask them if they have been to America ever.

    I waited seven months for an appointment with a rheumatologist. It was the worst appointment I’ve ever had. The doctor shouldn’t be allowed within ten miles of a human being (or a dog or cat).

  129. 129.

    artem1s

    @ArchTeryx: 

    TFG sure learned the wrong lessons on how he was propagandized and thumb-scaled into the presidency, didn’t he? He mostly didn’t bother campaigning and when he did, made every mistake possible. And still won.

    The lesson here is that the GOP tools and money that Rove put in place to get W (and JEB) elected were still functional in 2016. Every red state that loses control of the state level BOE/SOS office is another 2-4 years they have to work to put their voter suppression tactics back in place. Every year the GOP refuses to put in the work into GOTV and actual policy platforms and relies on MAGAt cult of personality to turn out the vote is another set of candidates with TFG loser stink and P01135089 indictment stink on them.

  130. 130.

    Roger Moore

    @hueyplong:

    This basic thought process makes me so angry.  The only way they can excuse Trump’s behavior legally is to claim he’s mentally incompetent or deranged, but they don’t see this as in any way disqualifying for office.  I think the underlying idea is they don’t really see the legal claims as anything but a dodge.  It doesn’t really matter to them what he says in an attempt to win his case.  They know what he’s like, and they’ll happily accept whatever he needs to do to avoid conviction.

  132. 132.

    RaflW

    Since politics, and OT and all: I went to a Wallworth County (WI) Dems event yesterday that hosted Sen. Tammy Baldwin. Very, very good turnout. I suspect she got a good haul (though the money is only part of the reason for these events).

    As a mostly-Minnesotan, but a gay one, I certainly knew of her, and had made small online contributions before. Bot hot damn, she’s good. She has a powerful personal story of growing up, needing health care, and how that informs much of her work in D.C.

    And she seems to be able to carry a message to labor & union folks who might tend MAGA but who can grasp the importance of Biden + Dem Senator’s “Buy America” provisions in all the Bidenomics legislation.

    We really, really need to hold the line in WI next year for her senate seat. I hate to say it but, with the baked-in racism in this state (plus of course incumbency and a presidential-cycle turnout this next time) she likely has a better shot than Mandela Barnes had in ’22. But we can’t be complacent. Anywhere. For any seat.

    Onward!

  133. 133.

    artem1s

    @Jackie: Good! I swear there are Ohio snow birds who have been doing this since well before W was elected. There is a reason the GOP didn’t want those FL recounts to happen in every county in 2000. Hope this one is the first of many thousands.

  134. 134.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Roger Moore: I think the idea is that they think Trump is right and the election really was stolen from him–it’s everyone else in the world who is deluded–but since the law reads Trump’s belief as a delusion, the best they can do is use the belief to protect him legally.

  135. 135.

    Jay

    @TriassicSands:

    The true believers will sell their children to raise money if need be.

    Who would want to spend good money on used MAGAt children?

    They probably arn’t even useful as child labour.

  136. 136.

    TriassicSands

    @Jay:

    It’s an internal market — cult member to cult member. It’s worth it, since Trump will make America great again and they’ll all be millionaires if not billionaires. Infinite winning.

  137. 137.

    Roger Moore

    @Suzanne:

    Any time you hear some jackass say that “in Canada, they have long waits for healthcare!”….ask them if they have been to America ever.

    If the system doesn’t have waits and rescheduling for elective surgery, it’s probably doing something wrong.  We should be trying to use our resources efficiently, and that means keeping operating rooms busy.  Since there are some procedures that just can’t be scheduled for or postponed, i.e. emergency surgery, that means elective surgery will necessarily have some waiting and uncertainty.  Within the bigger picture of elective surgery, some kinds of that will be more elective than others, and they’re going to have longer waits and more rescheduling.  It’s a sign of a properly functioning system, not a disfunctional one, that those surgeries have long wait times.

  139. 139.

    Jackie

    @TriassicSands: A 2011 Ruling by one of TIFG’s SC Justices may nullify that argument!

    ““Former President Trump’s attorneys have signaled that they will defend him by claiming that he could not have been trying to defraud the United States in the wake of the 2020 election because he sincerely believed he won.””

    “However, a Supreme Court opinion authored in 2011 by conservative Justice Samuel Alito could knock this defense flat on its face.”

    “In a legal analysis published by The New York Times on Monday, New York University Law School professor Burt Neuborne walks through how the 2011 opinion affirmed that proving willful blindness to the falsity of one’s words and actions is legally equivalent to proving someone’s consciousness of guilt.”

    “In one particular relevant passage in the ruling, Alito argued that “many criminal statutes require proof that a defendant acted knowingly or willfully, and courts applying the doctrine of willful blindness hold that defendants cannot escape the reach of these statutes by deliberately shielding themselves from clear evidence of critical facts that are strongly suggested by the circumstances.””

    “As for how this would apply to Trump, Neuborne argued that testimony from multiple former Trump administration officials and campaign officials provides a track record to show that Trump had been told again and again that he had legitimately lost the 2020 election.”

    ”Neuborne concludes that “while this argument is not a slam dunk, there’s an excellent chance that 12 jurors will find, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Mr. Trump hid from the truth by adopting willful blindness.”“

    From NYT. The link is embedded in the blurb above.

  140. 140.

    Rachel Bakes

    @LAO: my 84 year old mom took a nasty fall last week and clobbered the back of her head. One more thing for us to keep an eye on, thanks. (Really)

  141. 141.

    Mai Naem mobileI

    @Jackie: can you imagine the conversations with his co-inmates?

    ‘I’m doing 4 years for making meth? What are you in for?’

    ‘Oh, I double voted for The Donald using my summer place in Floriduh and my home here in Ohio!’

  142. 142.

    Scout211

    And the defense rests.

    What a bang up job he has done to make himself look ignorant and guilty at the same time defend himself!

    Mark Meadows testified that the Hatch Act does apply to the White House chief of staff, but he said “there are some differences of opinion on how it should apply.”

    Meadows insisted that when it comes to his interactions with people connected to Donald Trump’s campaign, including Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, he said, “I didn’t [see ] that as a violation of the Hatch Act.”
    . . .

    Mark Meadows’ defense has rested. Meadows stepped down from the stand after nearly three hours and 40 minutes.

    Before stepping down, he reiterated that there is a federal role in ensuring the accuracy of elections and protecting elections from cyberthreats.

    Before Meadows stepped down, prosecutors questioned him about his role in the fake electors scheme. Meadows said, “As chief of staff, no I did not coordinate those efforts.”

    The prosecution asked Meadows if he had a personal interest in Trump staying in office. He responded, “Wanting him to stay in office? Certainly.”

    The prosecution then asked if keeping his job depended on it. Meadows said yes, joking, “I can’t imagine that I would be chief of staff for Joe Biden … I was not on the shortlist.”

  143. 143.

    jonas

    @Jeffro:Cast the left and your opponents as deeply tainted and use the most strident rhetoric possible to describe them. If anyone pushes back, you double down and reframe as needed.

    Quite right. She never said he didn’t have a right to express his views. She just said he could take his views and go fuck himself.

    And speaking of Mr. Ramaswamy, I sense a very target rich environment for oppo researchers. Nobody who’s that huge of an asshole can be as successful as they claim. I bet you really start digging into his business record, all sorts of janky shit starts spilling out. Just like Trump, indeed.

  144. 144.

    Roger Moore

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I tend to think of it more in the line of the ends justifying the means.  They want Trump as president, and any means, fair or foul, to get there is acceptable.  He has to win his cases first, so anything he needs to say to win is fair game.

  145. 145.

    AM in NC

    Since this is an open thread, I’m here to vent about a current lockdown at UNC. I heard about it while having coffee with a friend when the friend’s daughter called to say there’s a shooter on campus, and we’re in lockdown.  The whole University has been locked down for hours, and they cancelled all classes and activities for the rest of the day.  Local public schools are holding students after school until the town gives the “all clear”.

    Yeah, guns give us so. much. freedumb.   I fucking hate Republicans with the heat of infinity suns. They are a fucking death cult, and, even though I am not a violent person personally, I wish violence upon all of these death cultists. THEY should have to pay for the death regime they force the rest of us to exist (or not) under.

  146. 146.

    Shalimar

    @Gravenstone: Trump is ranting on TruthSocial already.  Wants the January 6th committee imprisoned for all their crimes against him.  Also swears he will appeal this horribly unjust trial date. (iirc, preliminary motions like this are not appealable)

  148. 148.

    TriassicSands

    @Jackie:

    I’ve read about that opinion. I’m not comforted by the idea that we might have to rely on Alito, et al. to be consistent.

  149. 149.

    Shalimar

    @jonas: Like Trump, Ramaswamy is also facing legal actions that he is trying to postpone because he’s an important presidential candidate.  In Ramaswamy’s case, he’s being sued by some of the people he has defrauded in his career as a con artist.

  151. 151.

    Geminid

    @jonas: After the Republican debate, Pekka Kallioniemi did a quick pass at Ramaswamy’s biography in a 16 tweet installment of his “Vatnick Soup” series.

    Kallioniemi also did a Vatnick Soup installment on Silicon Valley investor and would-be political influencer David Sacks.

  152. 152.

    jonas

    @Shalimar:Also swears he will appeal this horribly unjust trial date. (iirc, preliminary motions like this are not appealable)

    That’s how he’s always gotten away with so much shit in the past — just has his lawyers  appeal until the other side gives up or runs out of money. That’s not going to happen here.

  153. 153.

    Miss Bianca

    @SteverinoCT: Is that how Steve Allen died? I had no idea – loved his Meeting of Minds show – watched it every week on PBS when I was in high school.

  155. 155.

    Roger Moore

    @jonas:

    Nobody who’s that huge of an asshole can be as successful as they claim.

    Anyone who claims to be a self-made billionaire has something to hide.  Either they’re lying about their wealth or they did something dishonest to acquire it.

  157. 157.

    Scout211

    And the other former member of inmate P01135809’s administration, Peter Navarro, had some difficulties in his court appearance today.

    The federal judge overseeing Peter Navarro’s contempt of Congress criminal case on Monday called his defense arguments “pretty weak sauce,” injecting last-minute uncertainty into how the former Donald Trump adviser will be able to defend himself during his upcoming trial.

    Navarro, Trump’s one-time trade adviser, testified Monday in his defense during a key pre-trial hearing in his case. He’s facing charges for defying subpoenas issued to him by the House select committee that investigated the US Capitol attack on January 6, 2021, claiming he did so because Trump asserted executive privilege in the matter.

    But during the nearly three-hour hearing before US District Judge Amit P. Mehta in Washington, DC, the judge appeared highly skeptical of Navarro’s testimony, noting it’s from one side of the conversation.

    . . .

    That’s pretty weak sauce,” the judge added, referring this time to a comment Navarro says Trump made to him about regretting not letting him testify. The comment had been used by Navarro and his team to bolster their argument that Trump did invoke privilege because his subsequent regret indicated as much.

    “The record is barren, there is nothing here, even after your client’s testimony,” Mehta told Woodward.

  159. 159.

    Jay

    @jonas:

    @Roger Moore:

    In Ramalamadingdong’s case:

    • he set up a Corp in Bermuda with VC funding
    • bought the patent for a drug that had failed trials 4 times
    • had his Mom cherry pick the trial reports for favorable reports, ( most of which were about a competing drug in the same trials)
    • issued the faked report and did an IPO, (in which he owned most of the stock issue),
    • cashed out
    • drug failed trials a 5th time and the company declared bankruptcy
  160. 160.

    LAO

    @Rachel Bakes: I’m sorry to hear, I hope she’s feeling better. But seriously, if your mom is feeling unsteady, take her to a neurologist!

    BTW, my friend is 65 years old. Yay for Medicare but she is that old (by my standards lol).

  161. 161.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Miss Bianca:

    Yes, great concept. I am old enough to remember his “Tonight” Show. A bright, inventive, and funny guy. I also had no idea of the circumstances of his death. Bizarre.

  162. 162.

    Scout211

    @LAO: But seriously, if your mom is feeling unsteady, take her to a neurologist

    Even with Medicare, specialists often take months for a referral depending on local availability and MRIs also take weeks to schedule

    Take her to hospital emergency.

     

    ETA: formatting clean-up

  165. 165.

    West of the Rockies

    @Roger Moore:

    I’ve used this analogy before (and it’s only useful for NFL fans), but it’s like if your team had a ton of dirty players:  Romanowski, Burfict, Andre Waters, Suh, Dobler…

    You don’t care as long as you win.

    Sort of like fans who knew Bonds took steroids.   Don’t care… I want my homers and wins.

  166. 166.

    LAO

    @AM in NC: So, my brother was a first responder at Sandy Hook. We have talked, quite a bit over the years, about how we don’t have to live this way. It’s a choice to choose guns over children, to choose guns over just living our lives. The gun humpers have destroyed our sense of community and it enrages me.

  167. 167.

    patrick II

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Meanwhile in her Dominion case Sidney Powell’s lawyer claims that no reasonable person would believe her about election fraud.  It should be interesting when she takes the stand in the RICO case.

  169. 169.

    Jay

    @sab:

    Pekka Kallioniemi
    @P_Kallioniemi
    Aug 25
    In today’s #vatniksoup, I’ll introduce an American businessman and politician, Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy).

    He’s best-known for his stock promotion schemes, for his staunch support of Donald Trump, and for his hot takes on the Russo-Ukrainian War.

    The Vatnick Soup webpage hasn’t been updated yet, so here’s the nitter link. Receipts have been brought in multiple places, other than you know FTFNYT and WaPo.

    https://nitter.net/P_Kallioniemi/status/1695026047685681396#m

  170. 170.

    sab

    @artem1s: That is undoubtedly why Frank LaRose pulled us out of the ERIC system. The only illegal voters they were catching were Republican snowbirds.

  171. 171.

    trollhattan

    @LAO: ​
    So sorry for your brother. There’s no meaningful way to tally the victims of a spree killing and surely the people who entered the scene are counted among them. How does any day after seem normal? When does sleep return, if ever?

  173. 173.

    Jay

    @sab:

    Oh, BTW, he parked his profits in a Hedge Fund corp, (that again, he created with VC money, (Thiel etc.))

    The Fund basically, is invested in safe, low yield investments, with few employees, but,

    Is already being accused of violating SEC regulations.

  174. 174.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @cain:

    Trump is going to bankrupt the GOP and their donors.

    Only the small donors. Most of the affluent remain affluent because they can recognize a bad investment.

  175. 175.

    LAO

    @TriassicSands: If it makes you feel any better, Alito didn’t create the legal concept of “willful blindness”. It’s been around for a long time and the subject of several Supreme Court decisions. I’m not sure why the author chose to name/rely on a single decision. Probably to make a point to conservatives.

  176. 176.

    artem1s

    @Jackie: Oh man, I just read the whole article. Real piece of work.

    The sentence came after Assistant Cuyahoga County Public Defender John Martin asked Santoli to throw out his verdicts finding Saunders guilty and grant a new trial. Martin argued that Santoli incorrectly interpreted the Ohio law that Saunders was convicted of breaking. The law says that no person can vote “at the same election.”
    Martin argued that the U.S. Constitution has said that each state governs and holds its own elections, so elections in Ohio and Florida are not “the same election.” He pointed to Florida’s election law, which says that no person can “vote two ballots in any election in Florida or any other state” and that, because Ohio’s lawmakers were not as specific, the law only applied to Ohio’s election.

    Kind of surprised the flag fringe wasn’t part of the argument. /s

  178. 178.

    Jay

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    Most of the affluent remain affluent because they can recognize a bad investment.

    Most of the affluent remain affluent because their donations are chump change compared to their profits. Have enough money and you don’t have to do anything, it will accrue faster than you can spend it.

    Look how cheap the purchase price is for a Supreme Court Judge or a Senator.

  180. 180.

    Yarrow

    @RaflW:  Speaking of Wisconsin, I heard a thing on the radio on whatever day the Republican debate was in Milwaukee. They interviewed a young (26), newly naturalized immigrant from Guatemala who was a gay man who owns his own construction business. He said he thought he “had to” vote Democratic but was looking into what the parties stood for and felt the Republicans “aligned more with where he stood on issues.” I wondered if he realized they’ll be coming for the brown, immigrant, gay parts of him and don’t care how he feels about issues. I wonder where he stands on that.

  182. 182.

    Suzanne

    @Roger Moore:

    We should be trying to use our resources efficiently, and that means keeping operating rooms busy. 

    Efficiency is one good among many. I literally help healthcare systems calculate how many operating rooms they need to serve their catchment area, I get how it works.

    I would argue that reducing suffering is a higher good than efficiency. I will also note that efficiency and resiliency are often goals in opposition.

  184. 184.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @WereBear: Wow! Congratulations ;-).

    I was just thinking about you – one of my new foster kittens wants to bite/bites me while I am petting her, which is something one of my cats also does. Is that misplaced affection, or a signal they want me to stop with the pets?

  185. 185.

    Another Scott

    @TriassicSands: 8:1 (Kennedy dissented) makes me feel that the Court probably got this right.  I wouldn’t make too much of Alito writing the majority opinion in this case, myself.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  189. 189.

    hotshoe

    @Suzanne: Thank you for saying this.
    Having “surplus” doctors, rooms, support staff available is a positive good.
    No one should resent the health care system “wasting” a few hours a week when the doctors and nurses get an extra coffee break because they have had time to take care of all the emergencies plus the already-scheduled elective surgeries.
    No one should claim it’s desirable that clinics and hospitals are so busy that they have to deny non-emergency patients.
    Of course you said it better than I do:

    reducing suffering is a higher good than efficiency​

  190. 190.

    WaterGirl

    @LAO: You are both correct, and I’m sorry your brother has to live with those memories.

    Even with as maddening for the rest of us, I’m sure that makes it even tougher for him to see the inaction.

  192. 192.

    Roger Moore

    @Suzanne:

    My point, such as it was, is that hospitals try to balance efficiency and resiliency by treating the schedule for elective surgery as changeable.  I assume they leave slack in their OR schedules to account for the inevitable emergencies, but if that contingency time isn’t enough, they push elective surgery back to make room for higher priority cases.  It’s a sensible way of doing things.  Maybe they would do better to increase their space and staff so they had the resources to handle things sooner, but idle staff and OR space is expensive and will drive up the cost of surgical care.

  194. 194.

    TooTallTom

    @Roger Moore: I understand the model, but the model is not designed to be flexible for surge capacity, as we saw during the initial spike of the COVID pandemic, when there were more patients than available space.

  195. 195.

    Betty

    @CaseyL: The problem is that type of injury takes a while to show up. But definitely monitor yourself for at least 30 days for possible signs.

  197. 197.

    wjca

    @Roger Moore:

    We should be trying to use our resources efficiently, and that means keeping operating rooms busy.

    On that logic, we should only have enough electricity generating capacity to handle average loads.  Doesn’t matter what happens in a heat wave (or cold snap).  Little things like cooking should just be rescheduled for low demand periods.  Like 3 AM in a heat wave.

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