Looks like we could use an Open Thread to be paired with the Ukraine thread.
I starred writing this on Sept 7, so maybe not as timely as it was then. But it will work for an open thread!
THIS THEAD IS WIDE OPEN
🌟
Like the warning that came out before the election in 2020, where it seemed that Dick Cheney had organized a bunch of people to issue the warning, I find myself wondering who helped get this going? Anyone know? Obama Foundation, since they are listed first? I wonder if the presidential centers are listen in order of joining in the statement?
On the face of it, this seems to be a good thing, but I find myself wondering…
- Who is the audience for this message?
- What do they hope to accomplish?
- Will it have any effect?
- Will it have the desired effect?
A statement from 13 presidential centers
The unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, as stated in the Declaration of Independence, are principles that bind us together as Americans. They have enabled the United States to strive toward a more perfect union, even when we have not always lived up to those ideals.
As a diverse nation of people with different backgrounds and beliefs, democracy holds us together. We are a country rooted in the rule of law, where the protection of the rights of all people is paramount. At the same time, we live among our fellow citizens, underscoring the importance of compassion, tolerance, pluralism, and respect for others.
We, the undersigned, represent a wide range of views across a breadth of issues. We recognize that these views can exist peaceably side by side when rooted in the principles of democracy. Debate and disagreement are central features in a healthy democracy. Civility and respect in political discourse, whether in an election year or otherwise, are essential.
Americans have a strong interest in supporting democratic movements and respect for human rights around the world because free societies elsewhere contribute to our own security and prosperity here at home. But that interest is undermined when others see our own house in disarray. The world will not wait for us to address our problems, so we must both continue to strive toward a more perfect union and help those abroad looking for U.S. leadership.
Each of us has a role to play and responsibilities to uphold. Our elected officials must lead by example and govern effectively in ways that deliver for the American people. This, in turn, will help to restore trust in public service. The rest of us must engage in civil dialogue; respect democratic institutions and rights; uphold safe, secure, and accessible elections; and contribute to local, state, or national improvement.
By signing this statement, we reaffirm our commitment to the principles of democracy undergirding this great nation, protecting our freedom, and respecting our fellow citizens. When united by these convictions, America is stronger as a country and an inspiration for others.
Obama Foundation
George W. Bush Presidential Center
Clinton Foundation
George & Barbara Bush Foundation
The Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute
The Carter Center
Gerald R. Ford Presidential Foundation
Richard Nixon Foundation
LBJ Foundation
John F. Kennedy Library Foundation
Truman Library Institute
Roosevelt Institute
Hoover Presidential Foundation
🌟
Totally open thread!
War for Ukraine Day 572: Russia Opens Up on Ukraine Again Tonight
HumboldtBlue
I have no answers, only more questions.
Such as, how do you get down from an elephant?
RobArt
The order is reverse chronological.
I do think it helps for institutionalists to speak up. If nothing else then for the historical record. And who knows? Every day there may be a handful more people coming around to seeing the truth about TFG and the current Republican Party.
lowtechcyclist
@HumboldtBlue:
I think I’ll duck that question, thanks.
hueyplong
Don’t see Eisenhower.
CaseyL
@hueyplong:
Because the Eisenhower Center didn’t sign. They offered a reason, but I don’t remember what it was.
Villago Delenda Est
Rush Limbaugh who pioneered the destruction of civility in the polity, with the able, enthusiastic support of Newt Gingrich, was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by TFG, rendering that honor meaningless.
NotMax
Barely, if at all, measurable.
Honorable sentiments dropped like a pebble in a swirling ocean of realpolitik, shifting currents of diplomatic innuendo and eddies of revanchism.
cain
Elon is looking to charge everyone for X/Twitter. So, looks like he’s ready to completely kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
Perhaps only the Nazis will pay. In the meanwihle, see ya on mastodon!
Did a post on my kitties today, went mastodon viral at almost 280 likes! It’s been pinging all day :D
RobArt
@Villago Delenda Est: I think that your comment raises a fascinating question about the value of honors, titles, and offices.
NotMax
@cain
New kid on the block?
RobArt
@NotMax: I enjoy your imagery, at least. The ideas are bleak but we’ll always have your facility with language.
I second the social media preferences of @cain
I’m at https://mastodon.art/@RMiddleton
dmsilev
@cain: That’s about the stupidest possible thing he could do.
No, wait, the stupidest possible thing would be to retroactively charge people for Tweets they already made. I give it a week before he tries that.
MisterDancer
I confess I don’t understand why we’d think it would move the needle. There’s a belief that we had a working government, but more and more I think what we had for the 1st half of the 20th century was a pact that allowed for the illusion of a stable government. And that illusion was built on the backs of ignoring certain groups.
Once one Party explicitly decided that maybe some basic civil rights made sense…the pact was done for. This statement pretends that isn’t the case, that we didn’t cut entire groups out of the New Deal for years to ensure it got passed.
The entire Conservative movement has turned towards finding new and exciting ways to kill any hope of resurrecting that pact. As a result: They could give less than a damn about this statement, because it doesn’t give then the power they think they deserve. Nor has the media paid a bit of real attention.
Brachiator
@HumboldtBlue:
The same way you got up on the elephant.
Sometimes there is a ladder, and when you get down, make sure you don’t step into any elephant shit.
SpaceUnit
The statement has a strong whiff of both sides to me. Fail.
ETA: The country is facing a clear and present danger. If they want to help they should come out and say exactly who and what it is.
cain
@dmsilev: I’m sure there are even more stupid things he could do like what you suggested.
The man doesn’t even get twitter, he doesn’t know the point. The people using the platform is the product not twitter. Moronic. You make money from the ads or personal information. Sheesh.
MisterDancer
@cain: Found this article on it, and the whole damn thing is worse than just the subscription:
What a waste of a human being Musk is.
glc
@cain:
Seems like a good move to me. It should make it a bit easier to find out what comes next. The poop emoji was always a giveaway.
Little by little, then all at once, as someone was quoting just the other day (in what context, I don’t immediately recall). Rip off the bandaid.
artem1s
this seems really manipulative to me. these institutions aren’t speaking for the presidents who gave them their names. they are program officers and marketing managers and fundraisers and administrators. it could just as well be a list of car dealerships. sounds like they are whinging about how they weren’t getting their proper respect when the loonies decided to start sending them hate mail or worse, death threats. they are experiencing what every 6 year old kindergartener in a public school has to deal with and they don’t like it. so they pull out the ‘why can’t we all just get along’ bullshit and point fingers at everyone else. where are their solutions to the lack of “civil dialog”? aren’t they supposed to be the big thinkers? Well, I can imagine that it’s hard to be an example for defending voter rights when your namesake invented all the really good voter suppression tactics used in the last half century.
Brachiator
Hard to say. Ideally, you would have to see the Republicans back down from their more idiotic positions, and more moderate Republicans speaking up.
Failing that, it might be up to voters to reject what they are being offered by the far right, and by Trump and DeSantis.
The press is largely hopeless. The more cynical either refuse to acknowledge the threat to democracy or don’t care. I think that some people and groups refuse to believe that an authoritarian could take over. Some other people believe that they will always be safe and comfortable, no matter who is in charge.
I think that the majority of people who vote for the Democrats understand what is at stake and are willing to fight to preserve democracy. And that’s a good start.
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: ” We don’t believe in democracy?” :-)
jackmac
The statement has the feel of “we’re really tired of this shit.”
But as to effectiveness and audience, I’m sorry to say that it’s sadly just more noise out there. If four indictments and nearly 100 charges against a former president doesn’t move the needle of public opinion, how can this?
HumboldtBlue
If needed, here’s a short clip of Snoop and Martha Stewart.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@HumboldtBlue: My, that was short.
Scout211
Governor Newsom was interviewed by Dana Bash for a broadcast tonight at 9 ET on CNN. Some of the interview was published on the website. Link
—
. . .
. . .
. . .
NotMax
A question.
Will (and should) Hakeem Jeffries refuse to sit any Democrats on the so-called impeachment inquiry committee?
Villago Delenda Est
Sorry, but when your “fellow citizens” have embraced fascism, there is no room for respect, only contempt.
Brachiator
@cain:
I don’t think that Twitter has ever made a profit, so there probably isn’t any golden egg.
But if he does something so stupid, it might accelerate the abandonment of X by even its most devoted users and help alternative platforms.
mvr
@HumboldtBlue: I’m sure someone will have beaten me to this, but you don’t; you get down from a duck.
I think lowtechcyclist was foreshadowing that answer in #3.
Brachiator
@NotMax:
Interesting question. I don’t see the point of Democrats participating in this nonsense.
Scout211
I think he will and he should add Democrats to the impeachment committee. Look what happened when MyKevin refused to appoint any Republicans on the impeachment committee. We need Democrats to be there and stand up to the crazy caucus.
MyKevin made a big mistake by making that silly stand of nominated no Republicans when Pelosi rejected a few of the nominees he had hand-picked. I don’t think Jeffries will make that mistake.
Edited for clarity.
MisterDancer
The last thing this country needs is an Impeachment Committee with only GOP voices. I mean, they’ll try their damnest to only have GOP voices, so we have to be twice as loud.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@NotMax: Will he seat Dems on the committee? Hopefully…
Should he seat Dems on the committee? Absolutely!
HumboldtBlue
Welp, they have…umm… they found that missing F-35. Or what’s left of it.
@mvr:
Don’t tell Brachiator, he’s out getting the ladder.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Scout211:
Yes! This is why.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Scout211: Hear hear. Dan Goldman has proved very effective in these types of hearings, Stacey Plaskett, a few others, and McCarthy will be appointing the usual poltroons, buffoons and maroons.
on topic: No
Ohio Mom
I can see this letter mentioned in a future history textbook as an example of how Americans of all stripes came together to fight the threat of a second Trump presidency — assuming our side triumphs. “This letter from Presidential libraries representing past executives from both parties was unprecedented and shows blah blah blah.”
Also in this textbook will be the comforting observation that Trump’s loss to Biden after one term, and later convictions show that our system works.
Future versions of James Löewen (Lies
my Teacher Told me) and Howard Zinn (A People’s History of the United States will tear these assumptions apart but it won’t make much difference.
Cameron
@Brachiator: The problem is, who will call out BS in real time? I have zero faith that Our Liberal Media will provide any sort of coverage other bland daily summaries. Shouldn’t there be at least one D to try to keep things honest?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Came here to say: Josh Marshall used a very interesting phrase tonight on the Hayes program that summed up something I’ve been trying to put into words for a while on trumpets, “belief as aggression”. Believing– or saying you believe, or saying you believe until you believe it– that trump won the 2020 election is the ultimate way to owning the libs. And it’s not just trump, anti-vax nuttiness, climate denial, so many tenets of the trumpist movement fit into this model. Putting a bumper sticker on your own brain.
bbleh
Strikes me as “Liz Cheney lite.” Might validate / encourage Republican-leaning “independents” and “undecideds” who are having second and third thoughts about backing TIFG. There is evidence that concerns about “democracy” have motivated voters in more than one recent election. Maybe this will promote more of that.
It’s certainly pale stuff in an environment of blistering neon. But there are a lot of people who don’t like the blistering neon …
Geminid
I just heard some sad news about Rep. Jennifer Wexton. She announced a few months ago that she had been diagnosed with Parkinson’s Disease, but intended to run for reelection next year. This morning it was announced that Rep. Wexton would retire instead, and now I hear that she has a more progressive neurological disease.
bbleh
@mvr: But “get down!” and “duck!” mean the same thing!! Verily a conundrum for the ages.
karen marie
@cain: Next time provide a link – I don’t know that I know you on Mastodon. I’m the always annoying (I try not to be but … hahaha) axomamma at mastodon dot online.
I can’t get enough of the cats. I want to see yours too.
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
It’s a window into the most recent (ultimately fruitless) defense strategery. To wit, “It’s my opinion and you can’t prosecute me for having an opinion.”
karen marie
@SpaceUnit: That fucking useless ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag George Bush was a signatory, so I didn’t bother reading it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@karen marie: as I recall, he didn’t sign it, but it’s supposed to be significant that he probably, quietly, behind the scenes, approved it? I’m guessing Jebbie and Neilsie and Doro must’ve also given their okay for Poppy’s place. Maybe even Ronnie and Patti told Michael to lump it if he doesn’t like it, assuming they acknowledge his opinion at all.
ISTR Nicolle Wallace, always one to gush over the latest one weird trick that will save us from having to win at the ballot box, intimated this idea came from the Carter Center? but it’s been a while.
Another Scott
Tomorrow – September 19 – is National Voter Registration Day.
A good proclamation by Biden.
We win by out-voting them, and making thing better while we have the power to do so.
Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
SpaceUnit
@karen marie:
You didn’t miss much. It’s pretty weak tea.
Adam L Silverman
The Ukraine update threads have always been open threads. I would appreciate it if you would stop bigfooting my Ukraine war update posts with inanities. People email me to complain about it. One of our readers is on BlueSky complaining about it so that everyone there can see it. There are far more important things than bullshit hopium.
And as a professional political science, no, this will make no difference.
Frankensteinbeck
@cain:
Advertisers are running screaming from the right wing cesspool Musk wants it to be. He can’t make money and run it the way he wants to, which is as a free haven where bigots and liberals talk to each other as uncensored equals. IE, where the former get to harass the latter.
People want so badly to stay on Twitter that it’s hard to predict what will happen when it’s ‘pay or leave’, but this sure sounds like it will end the platform as a communications method. However, I will throw out a wild guess: Musk, convinced of his own genius, has decided that aspect isn’t worth it to him anymore anyway. If he gets rid of the non-paying customers he can focus on rebuilding X into the financial services website he always dreamed of running.
mrmoshpotato
@Villago Delenda Est:
All of that is true, but I would like to take this moment to remind everyone that that PENIS! RUSH LIMBAUGH IS STILL DEAD!
Also, we can say PENIS! on the new site. PENIS!
Jackie
@Scout211: Thanks for the overview.😊
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
And not a moment too soon.
sukabi
@HumboldtBlue: you don’t, you get down from a goose.
mrmoshpotato
@Brachiator:
Or step on any ducks all of whom are thinking, “Why? Horses exist! Automobiles exist! Stupidly tall buildings that you call skyscrapers exist! Let Brittany and the elephants alone!”
RobArt
I think they’re the primary audience. Some media outlets somewhere will cover this statement. The more things like this that get spread the better. Right wing lies have a 30 year head start (or more) on seeping into the public consciousness. I do think that, even when we do not see definite results, speaking up for democratic values helps every time.
@Scout211: There are some strong statements by Newsome in that interview. Thanks for sharing.
Hilariously sad image.
Villago Delenda Est
Perhaps the Eisenhower folks didn’t agree with the statement. Ike preferred the direct approach with fascists.
wjca
Hogwash! An appalling slur! Student governments are routinely far, far better than this.
Jackie
@Geminid: I read about that this morning. It appears that her body isn’t responding as favorably to treatment as hoped, so she’s decided – rightly so – to retire at the end of this term and spend the time she has left with her family. I wish her and her family lots of quality and quantity family time!
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@hueyplong: Ikey no likey
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Sure, after the prom committee put down a rebellion by the also-rans.
cain
@Frankensteinbeck: you know .. I could see that.
My only thought is.. where will catturd2 go ?😂
Hildebrand
@Adam L Silverman: We can walk and chew gum at the same time around here.
cain
@karen marie: I followed you there ! I think you followed me back !
https://mastodon.social/@sri/111086489325629900
Adam L Silverman
@Hildebrand: There is no reason a new post was needed three minutes after I hit publish.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
The rise and fall and rise of a duck.
:)
piratedan
@NotMax:
I honestly believe he should…..
it’ll be broadcast to Faux News, which means if there’s no pushback offered they’ll be shooting that insanity straight into their veins
If the GOP actually abides by the rules, then in order to reinforce that, you take that opportunity.
The opportunity to be the sane rational ones is never an opportunity to be missed, especially so if the GOP broadcasts this.
We saw how the J6 hearings helped to sway public opinion, I see no reason to not allow our erudite representatives bring receipts.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Adam L Silverman: To be fair, open or not, there might be some of us not attending the Ukraine threads. I’m all for the just Ukrainian cause, but my soft little heart don’t want me thinking about it all too much.
It’s not at all uncommon here to have activity on two or more threads. We’re mostly veterans of this site at this point. We know how to find what we want to read. I respect and appreciate what you’re doing, but we’re all sharing this space
ETA: A space we wouldn’t have or enjoy as much without both you and Watergirl.
cain
@MisterDancer: truly..
I hope we all find the social media home we are comfortable with.
I’m sad that the people who made Twitter their home will have to find other places.
But perhaps it is time for a change and now is the time to do it.
NotMax
@Villago Delenda Est
Passing mention that Dolt 45 misspelled the word Nazi* on one of his newest execrable Pravda Social screeds.
*”Natzi”
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Hildebrand: reminds me of one of LBJ’s greatest quotes: “Gerald Ford is so dumb he can’t piss and chew gum at the same time”.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@NotMax: I did Nazi that coming. One should familiarize oneself with the organizations one is drawing support from.
cain
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Well said. Also, it seems almost disrespectful to go on an Ukraine post and talk frivolous convos on a thread documenting war, death and struggle. And the betrayal by our so called betters. It’s sobering.
cain
@Adam L Silverman: yeah that’s a bit too soon.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: I know you put open thread in the tags on all those posts, but there are commenters who disagree
Why not just let people decide which threads they want to participate in?
Another Scott
@Villago Delenda Est:
KansasReflector.com (from September 7):
I haven’t been able to find the full text of the statement on why she declined to sign.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Very much, this, too. Thank you.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Why are no cheese wheels in those football helmets?
mrmoshpotato
Cardinals beat the Brewers 1-0.
Go Cards! (That hurt.)
cain
Black mastodon had an interesting thread https://todon.eu/@jalcine/111088500871618636
Mike in NC
Driving through South Carolina today we saw a sign for a Trump Superstore, where their motto is, “In Trump We Trust”. They really do worship him like an Orange Messiah.
Scout211
I approve of the CNN story:
Tensions flare inside House GOP as moderates explore new plan to avoid shutdown
And there’s more infighting and backbiting at the link!
Jackie
@cain: My viewpoint as well. I read Adam’s posts religiously, but skip the replies after the first few.
Jackie
Aren’t we supposed to learn Judge Chutkan’s decision regarding to recuse or not recuse today? Or did I somehow miss her decision?
Frankensteinbeck
@Scout211:
They had a better negotiating position with the debt ceiling. They gave that away for nothing, and now they’re trying to start over without that hostage. Amateurs. Dumbasses. And, like last time, I bet cowardly GOP reps will drag things out until the last minute hoping that someone will solve the problem for them.
Jackie
@Scout211: I read that Gaetz plans to replace Pudd’n Boots as the next FL governor.
Poor Florida Jackals should this come to pass 😢
cain
@Scout211: Just waiting for someone to put up a trial balloon about starting their own conservative party.
It won’t work of course because it would be brutally attacked or instead of one nazi party there will be two.
cain
@Jackie: Not to put words into Adam’s mouth – but he’s reacting to the fact that he just spent maybe 1.5 or longer on this post only to see another post a few minutes after his. I can see him being miffed – but I think it’s important to note that nobody is doing this on purpose – but still hard to put up with especially when it’s unpaid labor.
Scout211
Hard news website TMZ is reporting that Lauren Boebert is not planning a second date with Quinn Gallagher because she just found out that he’s a Democrat!!!111!
🤣
Jackie
@Scout211: He got what he wanted the first date, so it’s all good 😉
HumboldtBlue
@Jackie:
Same here, I’ve never thought it appropriate to comment off subject.
dmsilev
@Scout211: I think a shutdown is likelier than not at this point. Avoiding it would take McCarthy putting a true Continuing Resolution (i.e. flat funding, without the cuts the Freedom Caucus are demanding) on the floor and then passing it, most likely with the help of a lot of Democrats. Followed ten milliseconds later by the Freedom Caucus defenestrating McCarthy. Probably metaphorically, but I can’t rule out the possibility that they’d actually throw him out of an actual window.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Scout211: dare I say it – republicans in disarray
Jackie
@cain: I understand. I just want him to know I do read and I appreciate the time and effort he dedicates to his Ukraine posts, even though I don’t post on them.
hueyplong
@Scout211: Prelude to paraphrasing a DC mayor by claiming, “Woke low-T male set me up.”
hueyplong
@dmsilev: Your proposal is accepted. Please make it so.
Jackie
@dmsilev: They support Putin, so throwing “My Kevin” out the window is only a forgone conclusion. 🙄
TriassicSands
It isn’t meaningless, but it isn’t going to have any effect whatsoever on Trumpists or the GOP. They’ve simply redefined all the terms used in the statement.
@Adam L Silverman:
The war is far more important than an anodyne message of support for motherhood and apple pie, but I think you may be being overly sensitive here. The importance of the war is such that I don’t really consider your Ukraine posts to be “open threads.” I expect them to be updates on the war’s situation and tossing in comments about other subjects strikes me as frivolous and distracting. Very few readers have anything overly useful to add to your informed discussions, so I almost never read comments to your posts.
I appreciate the effort you put into reporting on the war, and, honestly, I don’t really see any point in the subject of WaterGirl’s “bigfoot post,” in part because of the content of the foundation’s statements, and in part because I expect it to be utterly meaningless in influencing people or changing minds. It’s no more profound or surprising than a Trump social media post explaining that only he can save the world. But that means, to me, it’s the perfect thread to talk and write about whatever — from the trivial to the profound. Those who have something relevant to the war have your thread.
WaterGirl spends a lot of time keeping things going here at BJ and she, too, deserves my (and our) thanks. I think your two posts can coexist without conflict.
Note: Given that AS’s post was only three minutes before WG’s, maybe, for whatever reason, she was unaware of AS’s post. (I don’t know how the system works on BJ — I’ve always figured that the front pagers could tell what others were doing, but that doesn’t mean they would always do so.
Obviously, the way to fix this is with a no holds barred cage match between Zuckerberg and Musk with Kristen Welker officiating.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@cain: big footing has been going on here as long as I’ve been here, which is (my god I’m old and time is fleeing) fifteen years. My understanding is the front-pagers have no way of knowing who’s putting a post up when, until they’re up
Geminid
@Scout211: Mike Lawler is one of the Republicans representing a district Biden carried. I think there are a dozen or so others. Lawler’s mad because he is watching safe-district Republicans like Gaetz piss away his career in Congress.
In the 219-2021 Congress, Nancy Pelosi had a lot of Democrats elected from red districts. She tried to protect these “Majority Makers” and was largely successful (although we still lost good people like Kendra Horne and Xochitl Torres Small in 2020).
McCarthy lacks the guts to protect his own majority makers, and lets members like Gaetz actively undermine them. This Republican Caucus is toxic, and they are poisoning their own. Rep. Lawler and his staff would do well to keep their resumes and professional networks current, because they will be looking for new jobs come November, 2024.
Brachiator
@Cameron:
The impeachment inquiry is by definition a sham. An attempt to find something to pin on Biden. There’s no way to keep it honest.
Ultimately, though, I will look to see what the Democratic Party leadership does and will support whatever they decide.
RandomMonster
My thoughts exactly. If they want to make a difference, say Donald J. Trump is a clear and present danger.
Jackie
Rachel Maddow will be interviewing Cassidy Hutchinson next Monday – her first interview since testifying at the J6 Committee. That could be interesting!
TriassicSands
A shutdown (and Biden impeachment hearings) are the only way for Republicans to show their voters that they are on the job. Since Republicans have no ideas that would help the American people (or anyone else) and since their job description is more or less limited to obstruction, chaos, authoritarianism, cruelty, punishing the poor, and damaging our system of government and country, what else can they do?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jackie: and Lawrence O’Donnell the next night. I wonder if it’s on the advice of her attorneys or her literary agent
prostratedragon
@Jackie: She hasn’t released it yet. Probably not tonight, though things sometimes do drop as late as midnight.
TriassicSands
@RandomMonster:
That’s not how the institutionalists operate. In that, they are similar to the MSM, which has to be so middle of the road, noncommittal, and inoffensive that they can’t name names or condemn anyone on the fascist side lest they are accused of being mean.
We don’t face some nebulous threat from shadowy figures lurking somewhere out there in the ether. The threat is obvious, as are the culprits. If this statement named names the No Labels Party would be all over it whining about the need for non-partisanship. The problem here is not partisanship, but authoritarianism and it shouldn’t be difficult to condemn that and its source in clear, unequivocal terms.
Geminid
@TriassicSands: Republicans may see a tangible effect of a shutdown this November, when Virginians go to the polls to elect all 140 General Assembly members. A lot of Virginians would be harmed by a shutdown, and they’ll have Republican politicians at close hand to take their revenge upon.
pieceofpeace
Saw in our local paper that Blasey Ford is writing a memoir. I’m all for her getting all the whatever she wants to gain from this brave endeavor.
I also don’t know how to work the ETA, so you might already know of this.
Bmaccnm
A public handy on your first date?!? Lauren, honey. All the boys gonna think you’re easy/
Jackie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh, she has a book coming out? I guess after watching both interviews, I’ll decide if it’s worth purchasing – or if I get enough juicy info via interviews.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jackie: snarky speculation on my part, just wondering why she’s going on a media tour right now, letting my non-lawyer’s mind wander, wondering if it could be relate to her (I think) all but inevitable testimony
Seems to me if Meadows is a defendant, she the prosecution’s star witness
Jackie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: 👍🏻 I hope Meadows is having nightmares. He knows what she knows 😁
eta I read/saw somewhere that Hutchinson is listed as a witness for the prosecutors for the J6 trial?
TriassicSands
@Geminid:
I agree, but a shutdown is unlikely to register with many Republican voters who will simply blame it on the Democrat’s unwillingness to gut the social safety net and close a few cabinet departments.*
The truly amazing thing about the Right in this country is their unfailing inability to connect the dots now matter how obvious things are. Willful ignorance and rationalization are among their most common qualities. The hope, of course, would be that if a shutdown hits their own paychecks maybe the message will get through. I remain open to the possibility, but I long ago stopped hoping — the disappointment just isn’t any fun.
Ken B
@HumboldtBlue: The guys in the clip are carrying AKs and not speaking English. I don’t know if the video was intended as snark or not, but that’s definitely not the F35 wreck in South Carolina.
karen marie
@cain: Welcome! Yes, I got you!
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@TriassicSands: I remember the first shut-down, back when Newt Gingrich, Super Genius, was Speaker. I visited my mother, and took the Natchez Trace Parkway to get there.
As a limited-access highway/quasi-park, all services along the Trace are those provided by the government.
So all the offices were closed, and all the restroom facilities. If you weren’t willing to pee in the woods, you had to leave the road at one of the (very infrequent) exits, and hope that there was a business waiting to cater to your needs close at hand.
I’d stopped at one of the rest areas to check my map and see how long the drive to anything likely was, and while I was sitting there, an older white couple—classic Nice, Well-off Southern Republicans—emerged from the woods. The woman was expressing herself eloquently on what she expected her husband’s response to their congressman to be the next time he asked for campaign support, financial or otherwise.
So yeah, when they themselves are affected, even if it’s just something as petty as locked bathrooms & closed parks, they don’t much like the results of a shutdown.
Geminid
@TriassicSands: Virginia does not have enough Republicans to win purple districts. They typically have to carry a majority of the Independent vote just to have a chance. There are a lot of federal workers and federal contractors who don’t identify with either party, but still vote regularly. Those are the voters who will be tempted to take their frustrations out on Republican General Assembly candidates.
This government shutdown prospect is starting to bubble up among Virginia political commentators. The ones I’ve read see it not as a question of whether a shutdown will hurt Republicans here, but of how much.
TriassicSands
But do they forget when the election is more than a full year away?
The behavior of Republican voters is so antithetical to good government and even just plain old common sense. I’d love to know how many elderly Republicans are just like my former neighbor who wasn’t aware that the GOP had changed since the 1960s. I once questioned her (under a bare light bulb) about her actual political beliefs. Few, if any, were remotely like those of the party she unfailingly supported until her death at 85. She was sure, however, that unions were powerful than ever.
On the other hand, it’s not surprising for voters who consider racism and other forms of bigotry to be vital to their own well-being to be Republicans.
Citizen Alan
@Villago Delenda Est: Not only was that contemptible fucker given the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Shitgibbon interrupted the State of the Union Address to give it to him! The same SotU, by the way, after which Nancy Pelosi was called “divisive” because after the speech was over, she tore up her paper copy of it.
brantl
@HumboldtBlue: You don’t, you get down from a duck.
brantl
@NotMax: Oh, absolutely not. They should put the people who can blow holes in their “arguments” and”facts” minute-by-minute.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: There are also complaints that when there is not an Open thread when the Ukraine post is active, it often kills Balloon Juice for the rest of the night. News flash: people complain, and they don’t always agree.
Not one single person who would be participating in the Ukraine thread is going to not participate because another post goes up.
Should we talk about how often you put up your Ukraine post just a few minutes before or a few minutes after Medium Cool goes up at 7 pm on Sundays?
It happens with such frequency that it has seemed obvious to me that either you don’t care about big footing, or you don’t think the threads are in competition with one another.
One thing I think we should all be able to agree on is that one front-pager publicly disparaging another front pager is not cool, whether that’s on the front page of Balloon Juice or on social media. This isn’t high school, and it’s not good for Balloon Juice.