Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

đŸŽ¶ Those boots were made for mockin’ đŸŽ”

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Gradually, Then All At Once

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Gradually, Then All At Once

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An ‘impossible’ shift in the gun-safety argument, and also a refutation of Old people have a death grip on the Democratic party! meme…

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Gradually, Then All At Once

======


As I remember it, the idea of Trump ‘visiting a picket line’ was originally floated by his handlers as potential counter-programming to the second RNC debate next Wednesday, at the Ronald Reagan Library. I suspect TFG is not happy that he’s (possibly) been roped into physically travelling to the Midwest just to stand in front of a bunch of uppity workmen with jumped-up ideas of their own importance. Depending on the reaction to President Biden’s visit, I wouldn’t bet so much as a store-bought cookie that Trump will actually show up in Michigan, although he’ll probably drop a semi-coherent video clip…

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Gradually, Then All At Once 1

For the budget-conscious, looks like the President’s UAW visit (c’mon, he’s not walking the picket line, the Secret Service would stroke out and/or shoot some poor guy wearing deer season camo) may have been added to a previously-scheduled swing:

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Gradually, Then All At Once 2

Reader Interactions

223Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    2024 will be a labor vs. capital election.  Biggest opportunity since 1980 for working people to have a seat at the table in the economy.

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    Biden’s social media team is stellar. 

    @Baud: Yep, and that is some deft use of Haley and Fox News talking points to underscore it.

  3. 3.

    New Deal democrat

    In fairness, Neil Cavuto is an old school Reagan conservative who has always played it straight in his business reporting, and has called out nutcase talking points a number of times.  Notice in the video clip he is not criticizing Biden or the UAW.

  4. 4.

    MazeDancer

    @Betty Cracker:

    Biden’s social media team is stellar

    Shimmering brilliance. Maybe  he has striking SNL writers.

    That “Yes” over Haley is total aces.

    What’s Trump gonna do when he shows up second? Meet with management? Show his support for mega millionaires?

  6. 6.

    Betty Cracker

    @MazeDancer: I am also wondering how the 🍊 đŸ€Ą Will counter program Biden’s visit. He was originally scheduled to give a rambling, incoherent, self-pitying speech to “current and retired” members. Maybe he’ll stick with that?

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    It also makes me happy that the Maxwell Frost vid under Biden’s “Promise kept” has a Tom Tom Club soundtrack.

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    My 2 youngest STL gds are having a birthday party today (ages 4 & 2) at Lindenwood Park in STL, so I have a fun day ahead of me. Unfortunately, my wife won’t be going with me. She is sick as dog with a cough, runny nose, etc AND she’s lost her voice. We’ve looked everywhere for it and it is nowhere to be found.

  9. 9.

    Jeffro

    I like how Biden/Harris 2024 is giving the shrinking GOP nowhere to go…it’s almost like if you work hard and govern well for the people, you end up on the right (and majority) side of every issue.

    There’s a joke to be had there, somewhere: “A fundie, a billionaire, an anti-vax nut, and Leonard Leo walk into a bar.  The bartender says…”

    …so you guys decided to hold the convention here, huh?”

    I’ll work on it!

  11. 11.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​
     

    He can talk about all the anti-labor decisions his NLRB issued that Biden’s NLRB reversed.

    I don’t know if you win the thread, but that’s gonna be hard to beat.

  13. 13.

    Jeffro

    Meanwhile, more reporting like this please: The GOP’s Wrecking Ball Caucus: How the Far Right Brought Washington to Its Knees

    (leading off with my own barf-able Rep, Bob (Not) Good).  Link is gifted.

    With a disruptive government shutdown just days away, Washington is in the grip of an ultraconservative minority that sees the federal government as a threat to the republic, a dangerous monolith to be broken apart with little regard for the consequences. They have styled themselves as a wrecking crew aimed at the nation’s institutions on a variety of fronts.

     
    They are eager to impeach the president and even oust their own speaker if he doesn’t accede to their every demand. They have refused to allow their own party to debate a Pentagon spending bill or approve routine military promotions — a striking posture given that unflinching support for the armed forces has long been a bedrock of Republican orthodoxy.
     
    Defying the G.O.P.’s longstanding reputation as the party of law and order, they have pledged to handcuff the F.B.I. and throttle the Justice Department. Members of the party of Ronald Reagan refused to meet with a wartime ally, President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, this week when he visited the Capitol and want to eliminate assistance to his country, a democratic nation under siege from an autocratic aggressor.
     
    And they are unbowed by guardrails that in past decades forced consensus even in the most extreme of conflicts; this is the same bloc that balked at raising the debt ceiling in the spring to avert a federal debt default.
     
    “There is a group of Republican members who seem to feel there is no limit at all as to how you can wreck the system,” said Ross K. Baker, a professor of political science at Rutgers University. “There are no boundaries, no forbidden zones. They go where relatively junior members have feared to tread in the past.”

    here’s how you know it’s bad…for them…

    “The clowns are running the circus here,” said Representative Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, the top Democrat on the Rules Committee. “There are a lot of Republicans who are rational human beings who are horrified by this, but don’t seem to have the guts to stand up to it and push back.”

     

    “I’m starting to feel nostalgic for Gingrich,” he added, referring to former Speaker Newt Gingrich, who engineered Republicans’ takeover of the House in 1994 after 40 years in the minority and was reviled by Democrats. Mr. Gingrich also presided over a shutdown and an impeachment, and Republicans paid a price in the polls and at the ballot box.

  14. 14.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:

    2024 will be a labor vs. capital election.

    As much as I think it will have powerful impacts on labor and love Biden’s pro-labor stance, 2024 will be about Dobbs and everyone but the national press will know it.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    The problem with social media isn’t object impermanence.  It’s that there are subcultures within it that have norms that must be adhered to, including the norm that Democrats are not good enough and you should expect the worst from them.

  18. 18.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    As much as I think it will have powerful impacts on labor and love Biden’s pro-labor stance, 2024 will be about Dobbs and everyone but the national press will know it.

    I’m starting to think that 2024 will be about the fact that the GOP has gone batshit insane in practically every way.

    You can vote for the party that’s sane and trying to do stuff that improves your lives (and frequently succeeding, btw), or you can vote for a bunch of crazies who want to smash this country into smithereens.  It’s really that simple now.

  19. 19.

    OzarkHillbilly

    A military judge at Guantánamo Bay has ruled a 9/11 defendant incompetent to stand trial after a military medical panel found that the man’s sustained abuse in CIA custody years earlier had rendered him lastingly psychotic.

    A GuantĂĄnamo military commission spokesperson, Ronald Flesvig, confirmed on Friday the ruling by Judge Col Matthew McCall. The ruling means Ramzi bin al-Shibh will not be tried together with his four 9/11 co-defendants, whose case will now proceed without him.

    A Yemeni, al-Shibh is accused of organizing one cell of the 19 hijackers who carried out the 11 September 2001 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.
    …………………………………….
    A military medical panel last month diagnosed al-Shibh as having post-traumatic stress disorder with secondary psychosis, and linked it to his torture and solitary confinement during four years in CIA custody after his 2002 arrest.

    The “war on terror” keeps paying dividends.

  20. 20.

    eversor

    @Baud:

    It’s going to be about Trump and Dobbs in that order.  The press will try to make it about inflation and normal people making too much money.

  21. 21.

    artem1s

    I’m starting to wonder if half the MSM butthurt is all about the fact that they have to actually go somewhere besides Washington and FL (and Ohio diners) to cover the WH. So much cheaper and easier when all they had to do was have a couple of camera guys camped out at MAL all day. Hell Tucker and the other MAGAt press probably used the same stock video over and over again of the Orange shitstain cheating on his crappy golf course. Now they have to hire stringers all over the country and do actual advance work. I’d love it if the Biden team started doing side by side comparison ads – day 123 Biden or Harris doing XYZ vs. Orange loser playing golf at MAL or Bedford. How many days did that worthless POS actually work?  And, do the same for Nancy Smash’ last 2 years compared to McQuarthy’s do nothing Congress. Lots of ways to make hay on the ‘too many old Dems’ bullshit.

  23. 23.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Baud:

    But what about the things that really matter in Ohio diners, like stopping abortions and contraception? And what about seeing to it that they can open carry on the shop floor?

  24. 24.

    Ohio Mom

    I don’t have a TV, do ads like the one that starts with Nikki Haley play on TV? Maybe only in the Detroit TV market?

    Do autoworkers spend as much time online as I do? Of course you could spend loads of time online and not ever happen accross the video.

    Just wondering how this stuff reaches its intended audience. I enjoyed it but my vote is a given.

  25. 25.

    Percysowner

    I love the Biden/Harris pro union ad. I’ve replayed it several times. First, I can’t believe the Republicans are actually SAYING the quiet part out loud when it comes to working people. Secondly, I’m so proud that the Biden team is using the raw stupidity of the Repubs to tell everyone exactly where they stand on working people.

    Biden has a really put together campaign. Admittedly he’s being helped by the sheer ourageousness of the Republicans. He really has a bunch of batshit opponents which helps, but he is capitalizing big time.​​
    ​

  26. 26.

    Kay

    Republicans are going to run a wealthy person who lives in Connecticut this time for the PA US Senate seat instead of a wealthy person who lives in New Jersey:

    A month before Dave McCormick’s announcement Thursday for his second run for a U.S. Senate seat from Pennsylvania, he was the guest of honor at a party hosted by fashion designer Tory Burch at her massive Hamptons estate, according to several attendees. McCormick, the former CEO of hedge fund giant Bridgewater Associates, was surrounded by a Who’s Who of Wall Street as they celebrated his new book, “Superpower in Peril.” The more than 100 attendees included former executives Lloyd Blankfein, Steven Mnuchin and Gary Cohn, according to people who were there. Other guests were current Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon, and Bob Steel, the vice chairman of investment banking giant Perella Weinberg. Mnuchin served as Treasury Secretary under former President Trump while Cohn was one of Trump’s lead economic advisors. Many of those who attended the party have signaled privately they will likely back McCormick for bid to unseat Sen. Bob Casey, the Democratic incumbent, with campaign donations or fundraising efforts, according to people familiar with their plans. Other likely backers include Paul Singer, the president of investment giant Elliot Investment Management, and CEO Steve Schwarzman. McCormick, who has split his time between Connecticut and Pennsylvania, announced his campaign against Casey on Thursday, according to NBC News. McCormick plans to make his announcement in Pittsburgh, The Associated Press reported.Singer and other wealthy donors are planning to huddle for a strategy briefing on Friday backed by the pro-McCormick super PAC, Keystone Renewal, according to an invitee.
    Dave McCormick worked in the Bush administration’s Treasury Department. Dina had stints in the Bush and Trump administrations…. as many of these business leaders has backed his failed 2022 primary run for the Pennsylvania Senate seat currently held by the Democrat John Fetterman. The last time McCormick ran for Senate, his chief rival in the Republican primary was TV host Dr. Mehment Oz.

     

  27. 27.

    Betty Cracker

    I’m pleased to see Democrats in New Jersey and beyond united in calling on crooked Sen. Menendez to resign. Holy shit, y’all — have you read that indictment? Innocent until proven guilty, blah blah blah, but the prosecutors have got him dead to rights. So far, Menendez is trying to brazen it out:

    “Those who believe in justice believe in innocence until proven guilty… It is not lost on me how quickly some are rushing to judge a Latino and push him out of his seat. I am not going anywhere.”

    Yep, the craven piece of shit went there. His son who reps the old House seat kinda did too:

    His son did as well, saying he’s seen “countless detractors who refuse to believe a son of immigrants from Hudson County could rise to be one of one hundred and yet he’s constantly proven them wrong.”

    Fuck you too, nepo baby — I hope voters come for your seat next!

    Reading between the lines of the indictment, it looks like Menendez was being lead around by the dick. His wife, whom he married fairly recently, probably targeted the senator because he was widely known to be corrupt and is evidently a credulous mark. She had known at least one of the other defendants for years and started playing corruption matchmaker soon after she and Menendez started dating.

    I hope the whole rotten bunch does hard time.

  28. 28.

    geg6

    @Ohio Mom:

    Here in Western PA, we’ve been getting Biden/Harris ads on tv for months already.  Not so many that they are annoying but a consistent number of them, changing topics every month or two.  It’s been a consistent but subtle thing that’s been going on for at least a year.

  30. 30.

    artem1s

    @Baud: 

    Dobbs is about labor, mainly the right to avoid going through it.

    Well said sir! Literally a labor issue – the right to stay a member of the work force and not chattel property forced to go barefoot and pregnant at home all day.

  31. 31.

    geg6

    For anyone who might be listening to or are curious about the late night hosts’ Strike Force Five podcast, the latest episode was fracking hilarious.  They had Jon Stewart on as a guest and I was LOLing all over the place.

  32. 32.

    Shalimar

    It’s good to see John McCain join Ronald Reagan in the far-better-person-posthumously-than-he-ever-was-when-he-was-alive club.

  34. 34.

    eversor

    @Ocotillo:

    I’m pretty sure the point of political ads is for the ad makers to get paid.  Outside of political junkies who’s minds are already made up who watch them and then circle jerk each other over how awesome their crush is most people either ignore them or hate them with the fury of a thousand suns.

  37. 37.

    Mousebumples

    Good morning!

    Busy day here, so I may not be in the comments much this am, but I wanted to let the morning crew know that we’re doing postcards (and music) threads again! Saturday (tonight!) and Tuesdays, 8pm blog time (7pm central).

    WaterGirl will have postcarding options for Ohio (yes on Issue 1) and Virginia (state leg elections in Nov, I believe).

    Hope to you there!

  38. 38.

    Maxim

    @Ohio Mom: I suspect that lots of autoworkers and other blue-collar workers these days have smart phones. It only takes one to pull said ad up on their phone and show it to a bunch of their buddies.

  39. 39.

    Mousebumples

    Also, looks like WI GOP may be running a Senate candidate against Sen. Baldwin from California? đŸ€”

  40. 40.

    Shalimar

    @Betty Cracker: Speaking of nepo babies, Menendez’s daughter is a news host on MSNBC.  Amazing how many of those news reading jobs go to people who grew up with famous parents in entertainment or politics.

  41. 41.

    Betty Cracker

    @Shalimar: My 25-year-old DJ’d a road trip a while back with a playlist that featured Tom Tom Club, B-52s, REM, etc., and when I said why do YOU like all these oldies, the kid said because YOU made this stuff the soundtrack of my childhood! 😂

  42. 42.

    artem1s

    @Shalimar: Frost is a musician and so of course knows who Tina Weymouth is. Unlike say, the co-founder of the Rolling Stones and former board member of the Rock Hall.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    @Mousebumples:

    from California?

    I think it’s because they aren’t a real political party anymore – they just cast a national net for candidates they can turn into national celebrities and plug them into races, wherever. They don’t do any actual work once they’re elected other than screeching on social media and fundraising, so it doesn’t matter that none of them know anything about the states they “represent”. They can’t get elected to the senate in NJ or CT or CA so they just run in PA or WI – swingier states

  48. 48.

    mrmoshpotato

    Why is the orange shitstain going to Michigan – to throw pennies at the strikers and call them all losers?

  49. 49.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Drought sparks drinking water concerns as saltwater creeps up Mississippi River

    The New Orleans mayor, LaToya Cantrell, signed an emergency declaration for the city on Friday amid concerns about saltwater from the the Gulf of Mexico that has been creeping up the drought-hit Mississippi River in Louisiana. The declaration came amid concerns the saltwater, which is impacting the river because it is at such low levels, could impact the drinking water of thousands of residents in the next few weeks

    The Louisiana governor, John Bel Edwards, said the state would be requesting an emergency declaration from the federal government in the next couple of days as well to get federal funds and agencies involved.
    …………………………….
    The saltwater has already entered the drinking water of communities south of New Orleans – from Empire Bridge to Venice, Louisiana – making the water undrinkable for about 2,000 residents and causing water outages at local schools. As the saltwater moves upriver, it could affect the drinking water for another 20,000 people in Belle Chasse. After that it could reach the drinking water intake for the New Orleans community of Algiers, across the river from the French Quarter.

    To slow the progression of the saltwater, the army corps of engineers constructed an underwater barrier in downriver from New Orleans in July.
    ……………………
    The barrier was intended to slow the upstream movement of the saltwater, but the salt wedge has overtopped the barrier. Similar barriers were constructed in 1988, 2012 and 2022. This is the first time the barrier has needed to be built in back-to-back years. Last year, the barrier wasn’t overtopped, he added.

    But climate change isn’t real.

  53. 53.

    mrmoshpotato

    Biden is good sometimes actually

    Matt can shove his backhanded “compliment” up his ass ’til it comes out his mouth actually.

  54. 54.

    Mousebumples

    @Kay: I think it’s because they aren’t a real political party anymore

    Haha yeah, that seems accurate. Rep. Gallagher seems to be the one House Rep with higher aspirations, and he said LOLNOPE when they asked him to run. So many GOP officials are radicals on gerrymandered seats. Not winning a race against a popular incumbent.

  56. 56.

    artem1s

    @mrmoshpotato: he’s gonna wander thru a diner full of retired ‘fuck you I got mine’ MAGAt’s ex-union workers who hate that ‘their’ union is letting ‘those people’ have jobs. he’ll stick around long enough to mumble something about paying for dinner and then leave without paying.

  57. 57.

    Betty

    @Kay: The last time McCormick spent millions of his own money. Hope he does again. Bob Casey is in a strong position. Fetterman is already having a ball reminding voters of the last Republican nominee. That article is a great ad for Casey

  59. 59.

    Kay

    @mrmoshpotato:

    He’s appearing wiuth JD Vance. Trump and Vance will tell the workers that Biden’s EV push will leave them with lower wages and that we have to go back to them producing exclusively internal combustion engines, forever.

    It’s the same play they make with coal miners – “the future is BAD and you will DIE without conservatives protecting your jobs in dying sectors”

    I’m  huge labor supporter but the ball is really in their court. Biden is the best president for labor ever. If they want to boo hoo about the good old days with Donald Trump and JD Vance they can do that, but they are harming their own families. If they go with Trump I do not want to fucking hear about how they are “forgotten”. They slit their own throats. Not my problem. Weepy, self centered nostalgia is for suckers. It isn’t 1950 and 1950 wasn’t so great anyway. Grow up.

  60. 60.

    artem1s

    @Omnes Omnibus: srsly? you think I thought he’s the co-founder of the group? oh, to be really pedantic you should have pointed out that it’s the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

  62. 62.

    bbleh

    @MazeDancer: @Betty Cracker: @artem1s: they’ll have him in an excruciatingly screened and selected audience, outfitted with all the gear and perhaps some “homemade” signs, and with a handful of even-more-carefully-selected people behind him from the preferred camera angle.  It’ll be “reality TV” from first to last, full of cultists thrilled beyond measure to be part of it, and led by the WWE ringmaster.

    Y’know, like his rallies.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    It is great that Trump has to bring Ohio’s dumber senator to Michigan though. They don’t have any actual Michigan senators to appear with Trump because they have lost in Michigan every cycle since 2016.

    No one in Michigan aspires to be Ohio, but of course neither Donald Trump nor JD Vance would know that, not having any familiarity with this area of the country.

  64. 64.

    New Deal democrat

    @Ocotillo: “Yeah, I have always thought that about these online ads, how many people see them and are the right people seeing them?”

    It took me all of 2 ads from the Lincoln Project to realize that the target audience was progressives who would throw them $$$.

  67. 67.

    artem1s

    @artem1s: damn, I always thought the song ‘On the Cover of the Rollings Stones’ was about a magazine spread. Not being tattooed on Mick Jaggers face!

  69. 69.

    geg6

    @Betty:

    Plus, lots of news reports about him scrubbing his anti-abortion with no exceptions language that he made central to his primary run against Oz.  Suddenly he’s claiming that he’s been for exceptions and a 15 week cutoff all along.  All the PA GOP candidates, whether for national office, state office or judicial office, are frantically doing the same, with the exception of the religious nutcases in super safe districts.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Well, some of them. The UAW are fairly Right leaning among the unions, in my area anyway, and Democrats in Ohio still say they’re 55/45 D. The Teamsters are our most D union – rank and file come to our events, etc.

    But agree generally. I know they paid attention to the pension bailout because I heard a lot about it but they really need to get up to speed on Biden’s NLRB – it’s important for their families.

  73. 73.

    Ken

    @Kay: I know of Hawley (R-MO/VA) and Tuberville (R-AL/FL). Are there any other Senators whose primary residence isn’t in the state they allegedly represent?

  74. 74.

    Josie

    According to Political Wire, our former fearless leader posted on Truth Social that General Milley should be executed for treason. Someone is getting really nervous.

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    @Kay

    Evil EVs? Not oft mentioned but one of the cars (mostly foreign makes) owned by Dolt 45 is a Tesla (WaPo link).

    …Trump has a handful of elite foreign cars sprinkled around his various properties, according to his campaign. He’s a big fan of Rolls-Royce and started with a vintage 1956 Silver Cloud; now there’s a 2015 Rolls-Royce Phantom ($500,000 and up) that he occasionally drives himself, as well as a Maybach, a Ferrari, a Mercedes-Benz S600 and an SLR McLaren (with a $455,000 price tag) that he bought as a present for Melania. He no longer owns the electric-blue 1997 Lamborghini Diablo (it was spotted by car enthusiasts with his name on it), but in 2005, “Apprentice” contestants had to create an advertising campaign for the luxury Italian make. Rounding out the fleet are two made in the USA: a Cadillac Escalade and a Tesla. Source

  76. 76.

    Ken

    @Kay: I shall never understand the nostalgia for coal-mining jobs, especially not for the jobs as they existed in the early 1900s. I can only imagine it’s because a generation of kids grew up hearing how great their grandfather’s mining job was, but the grandfather wasn’t around to tell them about the shitty parts because he’d died of black lung at the age of 42.

  78. 78.

    mrmoshpotato

    @artem1s:

    I’d love it if the Biden team started doing side by side comparison ads – day 123 Biden or Harris doing XYZ vs. Orange loser playing golf at MAL or Bedford. How many days did that worthless POS actually work? 

    LOL!  You’re funny. :)

  79. 79.

    Kay

    @Betty:

    Oh, I’m glad. I just looked up his book. He’s another insufferable asshole, in the mold of JD Vance. It’s all “I will save the world because I am a brilliant servant-leader”.

    Casey can have a ball with that – nothing better than puncturing a pompous ass.

  81. 81.

    sab

    @Ken: My husband’s grandfather started out in Pennsylvania mines when he was twelve. He could fit in tight places. When he got too big for that he moved to Ohio and became a rubber worker building tires. He used to talk about how the mules’ safety was more important than the miners. Mules had to be purchased, while miners were paid hourly. He wasn’t the least bit nostalgic about leaving coal country.

    ETA He lived into his seventies because he got out of the mines in time.

  82. 82.

    Betty Cracker

    Ugh, Chuck Schumer’s statement on Gold Bar Bob:

    “Bob Menendez has been a dedicated public servant and is always fighting hard for the people of New Jersey. He has a right to due process and a fair trial.

    “Senator Menendez has rightly decided to step down temporarily from his position as Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee until the matter has been resolved.”

    I get that Schumer has to juggle issues the other Dems who’ve called on BM to resign don’t have to deal with. Okay, so say nothing. Or at least don’t fucking lie about BM “deciding” to step down as chairman — the rules compelled it or he’d still be squatting there.

  83. 83.

    Kay

    @Ken:

    It enrages me. They’re killing these people, telling them these sappy, romanticized stories. The POINT of the fucking union coal job was NOT that you would then send your kids to the mines! They were supposed to MOVE UP AND ON.

    Vance, like Trump, is one loooong whine about how bad things are. Christ, no wonder they’re all booting opiates. These sad sacks are making them suicidal.

  84. 84.

    MomSense

    I don’t think the pundits fully appreciate that Gen Z is the Obama generation.  They grew up with him as a role model and the image of leadership and these youngs want a better world.  Now if we can just keep them motivated to vote.
    I also want to say how awesome the White House social media team is.  Hiring the young woman who ran social media for New Jersey with all of the attitude she brings, was inspired.
    This is the last family weekend for a bit.  Have had my cousins visiting and it’s been amazing.  I’m exhausted from staying up late and playing cards, but so worth it.

  85. 85.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ken: ​
    I shall never understand the nostalgia for coal-mining jobs, especially not for the jobs as they existed in the early 1900s. I can only imagine it’s because a generation of kids grew up hearing how great their grandfather’s mining job was, but the grandfather wasn’t around to tell them about the shitty parts because he’d died of black lung at the age of 42.

    You read in all the hist’ry books
    That same old story told
    How us poor miners all got rich
    diggin’ that old black gold
    But you know the company got the gold,
    you know the miners’ lungs got black
    You know the company got the gold,
    you know the miners’ lungs got black
    -Si Kahn, “Black Gold”

  87. 87.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Chuck Schumer of New York: “Senator Franken should resign. I consider Senator Franken a dear friend and greatly respect his accomplishments, but he has a higher obligation to his constituents and the Senate, and he should step down immediately,” Schumer said Wednesday.

    I don’t think it’s great that both Dem congressional leaders are from NY. I think it’s a little too parochial for my taste. I would prefer a more geographically diverse set of leaders, plus, shouldn’t Schumer be focused on winning back some NY House seats instead of protecting this crook?

  88. 88.

    bbleh

    @Ken: @sab: @Kay: I think it depends on the time and place.  In WV in the early 20th century, despite the dangers and the terrible conditions and the sickness as you aged, the mines were a source of steady employment, regular wages and pensions, in places where there just wasn’t anything else like that.  A job in the mine, as exploitive and dangerous as it was, was a ticket to a better life for you and your family.  And that became increasingly the case as conditions improved and things became mechanized.  The men in town with spending money and cars — other than the educated elite or the few born to it — were the ones who worked in the mines.

    The poverty in Appalachia before the Great Society took hold is scary to look back on today.

  89. 89.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: The Majority Leader still needs Menendez’s vote so he and other Senate Democrats are letting him down easy. Schumer is leaving calls for resignation to New Jersey Democrats like the Governor. He called for Menendez to resign yesterday evening.

  91. 91.

    zhena gogolia

    @Ken: You know, one thing that really bothers me about that is that Scotch does not go with a burger! Scotch doesn’t really go with anything except maybe cheese straws, before or after dinner. You don’t drink it with dinner!

  93. 93.

    Kay

    @bbleh:

    A job in the mines was a ticket to a better life for you and your family.

    But it wasn’t supposed to end there. The “ticket” was supposed to be a springboard so your children wouldn’t have to work in the mines. It wasn’t supposed to be “we will now devote this entire region to protecting these 25,000 jobs”.
    Republicans now tell their followers not to send their kids to college. JD Vance went to college. Donald Trump went to college (well, I would need to see a transcript, but maybe) but they tell the lower classes they shouldn’t aspire to that, instead they shopuld demand that their kids follow them into the mines. They’re killing these people.

  95. 95.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I remember one job site lunch where there were myself and 2 other journeymen and a cub. When lunch was over we all stood up at the same time. The 3 journeymen all moaned and groaned in unison as our backs and knees snapped, crackled, and popped.

    The cub said, “I’ve got to get a different job.”

    I told my sons, “Don’t be a carpenter.” The younger one listened to me. The older one didn’t.

  98. 98.

    Ken

    @Kay: Though really, isn’t it better that the children want to go into the mines, than that the mine owner has to ask his buddy the governor to call out the state militia and force them into the mines? Or worse, the owner has to pay the Pinkertons to come in and bust some heads?

    Very odd — I’m sure I clicked once, but this one and the next both appeared, with the same text. I’m able to edit this one but not the next.

  99. 99.

    Ken

    @Kay: Though really, isn’t it better that the children want to go into the mines, than that the mine owner has to ask his buddy the governor to call out the state militia and force them into the mines? Or worse, the owner has to pay the Pinkertons to come in and bust some heads?

  100. 100.

    bbleh

    @Kay: I think for a lot of them  the “ticket” was more like a house with decent heating and plumbing, and decent food, and a car to get around, as opposed to the alternative.  I don’t think “I’ll do this horrible thing so you can do a better thing” was necessarily the mindset; rather it was “I have this opportunity to do better for us right now.”  And the notion of the mines as good places to work persisted even into the latter half of the 20th century.  Young men who weren’t gonna go to college really wanted to work in the mines, because they paid well (comparatively anyway).  It was not only money; it was status.

    Now perhaps as the images of middle-class living during and after the colossal economic growth of the 50s and 60s became widespread, the idea that “you could get out of this and it would be better” started to take hold, but that certainly wasn’t the case before, I’d say, midcentury at the earliest.  To the extent people were even aware of how people lived elsewhere, it was like Mars: looks great, I’ll never see it.

    And yes, the mine owners are killing people.  They’re famous for that, in some cases quite literally and very recently.  See, eg, the Upper Big Branch disaster in 2010, which was widely blamed on persistent safety lapses by the mine owners, notably the CEO Don Blankenship, who ultimately was convicted of … wait for it … a misdemeanor.  “Railroad barons” are considered to have been ruthless amoral greedheads, but they pale in sheer medieval barbarity to the coal barons.

  103. 103.

    NotMax

    @zhena gogolia

    Scotch doesn’t really go with anything

    Haggis? :)

    Maybe not a burger, but goes down pretty well accompanying a fine steak (Meat & Peat?). Or with paté YMMV.

  105. 105.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Mousebumples:

    we’re doing postcards (and music) threads again! Saturday (tonight!) and Tuesdays, 8pm blog time (7pm central).

    WaterGirl will have postcarding options for Ohio (yes on Issue 1) and Virginia (state leg elections in Nov, I believe).

    Yay for postcards! And music!

    get out the vote! Yes we can.

  106. 106.

    EarthWindFire

    @Kay:

    Weepy, self centered nostalgia is for suckers.

    Preach. It kills me that UAW is afraid of EVs because they’re easier to build. All for labor, but they don’t build a good case for themselves by flat out saying they won’t be able to add value as the world moves on. And the world does move on, whether you want it to or not.

  107. 107.

    Betty Cracker

    @Geminid: Silence on the issue I can understand. Cory Booker has declined comment, AFAIK. Or saying something like, “These are serious charges, but he has a right to due process” would be okay if he left it at that. But he didn’t. Schumer’s statement is a PR pool noodle — “dedicated public servant”? Really? And the bit about Menendez “deciding” to step down as chair is flat-out bullshit. I think Schumer sometimes gets shit for things that aren’t his fault, but this makes him look dumb and weak, and it wasn’t necessary.

  108. 108.

    Ken

    @Another Scott: [Menendez’s] term is up in January 2025. Maybe he’s hoping he can brazen it out and agree to not run for re-election.

    Doesn’t he know that while he’s running for office, he can’t be prosecuted for a crime? Bedrock constitutional principle.

    Also I’m sure taking money from people is covered by the speech and debate clause; money is a form of speech, according to Citizens United.

  109. 109.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I was relieved when Dr. Oz eked out his primary win over David McCormick. Oz was a crappy candidate, but McCormick might have given John Fetterman a tough race. Like Glenn Youngkin the year before, McCormick had plenty of money and like Youngkin he was a political newcomer. The astute Jeff Shapiro said of Youngkin that he had “a blank canvas” that he could paint in to his advantage; McCormick was similar in that respect.

    I’m not saying McCormick would have beaten Fetterman, but I thought he was definitely a stronger candidate than the clueless Oz.

    I’m not too worried about McCormick this time though, because he will run against a popular incumbent. Senator Casey won his last election by 600,000 votes, and McCormick has a steep hill to climb.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    My middle son has NINE apprentices right now. Up from Florida. They’re Hatitian and Cuban Americans. He’s only supposed to have three because they “work under his license” so he’s responsible for their work but they loaded him up this job for some reason. So he bought smiley and frowny stickers and he sticks them on the work as he goes around checking (he also is really quiet so he might like using stickers rather than talking to people). Frowny sticker means they have to do it over. They’re really young- kids- 18 and 19. He said they say “oh, not another frowny! What’s wrong with it?” :)

  111. 111.

    Kathleen

    @New Deal democrat: While surfing channels I stopped on Fox News because Cavuto was interviewing a Democratic Senator (whose name I forgot) but I had to pause because the focus was on FACTS and both Cavuto and the Senator conducted themselves with a genuine gravitas and respect for each other and the subject matter I haven’t seen since the 60’s or 70’s. I’ll take Cavuto over anyone on MSNBROC (except maybe LDO or Symone).

  115. 115.

    OverTwistWillie

    Taking the bark off:

    Brandon Presley, the Democratic nominee for governor, said at a campaign event last week in Summit that “not expanding Medicaid is one of the dumbest decisions that this state has ever made.”

    He said expansion could help keep hospitals open and provide coverage for 220,000 people.

    “They are folks like the lady that’s going to be wiping the table at the Waffle House somewhere here in Mississippi tonight,” Presley said. “Somebody will get up tomorrow and they’ll go to work at a Quick Lube changing oil, busting down tires. We’re talking people that roof houses. We’re talking about people that sweat. Folks that have to take a shower before and after work.”

    Wouldn’t we look like a bunch of Johnny-come-latelies, bragging on our own midget, doesn’t matter how stumpy:

    https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2023/09/21/gov-tate-reeves-announces-plan-to-help-struggling-hospitals/70924126007/

    Would it be uncivil to ask where all that fucking money was going prior?

  117. 117.

    Kathleen

    @Jeffro: Thank you so much for sharing that excellent article. (even NYT can provide good political analysis). My question about the excuse that “constituents want this” is do constituents really understand the impact it will have on their day to day lives. And with a national media obsessed with Hunter Biden’s laptop and “Biden so old” we have one more example of its massive failure.

  119. 119.

    Leto

    If Fox keeps writing all this campaign advertising for Biden, will he have to start paying them? Naaahhhhh!

  121. 121.

    Kathleen

    @artem1s: 90% of the Beltway Political Propatainment Complex’s butt hurt is because they’re racist, misogynyistic, no talent, fascist loving, narcissistic soulless ghouls. I hope I didn’t forget anything.

  122. 122.

    eversor

    @Kay:

    The catch is that most voters are voting their culture and religion.  It doesn’t matter what you offer them or what you do for them because they are just going to vote for Christian Nationalism or racism and be done with it.

  123. 123.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: Schumer didn’t sound dumb and weak to me. I thought he sounded smart and practical.

    Shumer is a working politician and not a pundit or a blog commenter. I do not care about what he says about Menendez or really,  about anything else; I care about what he does.

    I guess I do care some about what Schumer says, but only insofar as it advances his work or doesn’t.

  126. 126.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Shalimar: It’s good to see John McCain join Ronald Reagan in the far-better-person-posthumously-than-he-ever-was-when-he-was-alive club.

    Heavy lifters straining mightily to flip Shakespeare on his head, viz., “The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.”

  127. 127.

    lafcolleen

    @Kay:

    I am a NOLSW Local member  – we are affiliated with the UAW. (we are a national amalgamated local).

    Our ties to the UAW have traditionally been very attenuated and the UAW leadership had never done much to make us really feel connected.

    But the change to direct elections and Shawn Fain making strong efforts to communicate with members is changing things.

    Fain is bringing people with a strong background in orgamizing efforts into leadership.

    I am the unit chair at my organization and new hires are EXCITED to be part of a union. These are also the people that we need to get fired up about voting – so there is definitely an audience for the Biden ad. I will be sharing it with my members to remind them that (along with student loan forgiveness ) another Biden term is their best bet for financial stability. And many of my members put off startIng a family for financial reasons – so Dobbs is definitely part of the message too.

  128. 128.

    Another Scott

    @eversor:

    Census.gov:

    The table package shows patterns of voter turnout by race, Hispanic origin, age and other characteristics such as educational attainment and family income. Asian voter turnout was at an all-time high of 59.7% for the 2020 presidential election. As with past elections, a higher share of women (68.4%) than men (65.0%) turned out to vote. Voter turnout also increased as age, educational attainment and income increased. Voter turnout was highest among those ages 65 to 74 at 76.0%, while the percentage was lowest among those ages 18 to 24 at 51.4%. Overall, voter turnout increased as age increased, with the exception of 75-plus which had a turnout rate that was below 65-74 year-olds and not significantly different than the turnout for 55 to 64 year-olds. High school graduate turnout was 55.5%, while turnout for those with a bachelor’s degree was 77.9%. Overall, voter turnout increased as income increased, with the exception of those in the income ranges $10,000-$14,999 and $15,000-$19,999, which had turnouts that were not significantly different. For people whose income was $100,000-$149,999, turnout was 81.0%, while for people whose income was $30,000-$39,999, turnout was 63.6%.

    There are lots and lots and lots of registered voters who don’t vote. Increasing Democratic turnout is the path to victory and making things better.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  129. 129.

    Ruckus

    @lowtechcyclist:

    You can vote for the party that’s sane and trying to do stuff that improves your lives (and frequently succeeding, btw), or you can vote for a bunch of crazies who want to smash this country into smithereens.  It’s really that simple now.

    The current conservative party is about their rich benefactors getting richer, as it always has been. They don’t really want to smash the country, although it sure seems like it more and more, but it’s that in this day and age of well over 300 million people the government can’t be run like it’s the old rich farts playground where the rules are they can always get far richer on the backs of everyone else because sooner or later the numbers would, to protect themselves have to eliminate the those whose bank balances benefit most. Scrooge McDuck was a cartoon character, not a guide for the uber wealthy on how to play in their money piles at the cost to everyone else in a democracy, as Rupert is finding out, the hard way.

  130. 130.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @mrmoshpotato: Matt can shove his backhanded “compliment” up his ass ’til it comes out his mouth actually.

    IMO it’s far more likely that President Uncle Joe’s media team will cherrypick that quote and do him the favor of sliding it colonoscopically up his netherlands till it erupts xenomorphically from his piehole. But hey, I could be wrong…;^D

  131. 131.

    Jeffro

    @Kathleen: My question about the excuse that “constituents want this” is do constituents really understand the impact it will have on their day to day lives.

    It’s a good point.  It’s up to us to try and get that across, I guess: “here’s what having an arsonist for a Representative means, VA-05.  Y’all good with that?”

  133. 133.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @MazeDancer:

    What’s Trump gonna do when he shows up second? Meet with management? Show his support for mega millionaires?
     

    I don’t think it’ll take much for Trump to get a segment of the strikers to cheer him as he crosses (not “joins”) the picket line. He’s Nixon without the charm (Nixon famously got a lot of “hardhat” union members to vote Republican).

  137. 137.

    OverTwistWillie

    Dobbs is about denying 168 million Americans healthcare.

    So the crooks that put the likes of Tater Tot into office can pocket the money.

  138. 138.

    TBone

    @Kay: As a Pennsylvanian, allow me to say:  Fuck that guy.  Senator Casey will steamroll him, while cracking open a cold beer and perusing his PA map!

  139. 139.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Baud:  Trump can argue that if wasn’t for Biden would have never been elected and the unions wouldn’t have this kind of support from the government.

  140. 140.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Ken: …but the grandfather wasn’t around to tell them about the shitty parts because he’d died of black lung at the age of 42.

    Or in a mine disaster, as did my favorite uncle and godfather with 77 other miners at Consol No.9 in 1968.

    My future dad came to Baltimore from WV in 1940 when the coal-mine he worked at transferred him from above-ground work to “the shaft” to dig coal. He slept on the couch in his brother’s house till he found a factory job and drove back to The Sticks to collect his bride and move to The Land of Pleasant Living for the rest of their lives.

  141. 141.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @OverTwistWillie:

    So the crooks that put the likes of Tater Tot into office can pocket the money.

    There is no money for the oligarchs in making abortions illegal.  If anything, the better money is in having the procedure legal, especially by medication.

    It’s just misogyny.  Oligarchs have proven eloquently that they’re as bigoted and mean and stupid as poor people.

  142. 142.

    RevRick

    When I first saw the Seneca’s cliff reference, I thought it was about climate change. And this is THE issue that will motivate young voters.

  143. 143.

    BellyCat

    OT: Anybody else getting pummeled with personalized emails, likely originating from DNC list? (including from Nancy Pelosi) in which your first name is incorrect, but last name is correct?

    The incorrect first name I’m being addressed with would logically be from another person with the same last name (in my case, I suspect it’s my cousin).

    I fear that the database import was done incorrectly and the first name field is from the next person, alphabetically. If so, this could mean that MILLIONS of people are being misaddressed in their personalized emails! While not fatal, it’s damn irritating and makes the sender (if not the DNC) appear incompetent.

    Not sure how this gets verified or fixed but thought the Jackaltariat could easily verify if this is a widespread issue.

  144. 144.

    NotMax

    WT ever-lovin’ F?

    Kevin Bacon had to destroy haunted house on his farm after previous owner thought he’d get ‘possessed’

    The original homeowner was worried that the actor would get overtaken by a spirit and “do some serious damage.” Source<

  145. 145.

    wjca

    @Jeffro: There’s a joke to be had there, somewhere: “A fundie, a billionaire, an anti-vax nut, and Leonard Leo walk into a bar.  The bartender says
”

    
so you guys decided to hold the convention here, huh?”

    I’ll work on it!

    Perhaps:

    …And one [working on which one] says to the others: “If we’re all here, who’s out there intimidating the voters?”  And the billionaire replies: “I’ve got people for that.”

  147. 147.

    Juju

    @BellyCat: I was getting emails to Ann and then my last name. Ann is my middle name, so not quite the same issue as yours. My carrier upped their spam filter and that was filtered out, and I left it at that. When I’m ready to give I know how to get in touch with those people

  151. 151.

    wjca

    @artem1s:  I’d love it if the Biden team started doing side by side comparison ads – day 123 Biden or Harris doing XYZ vs. Orange loser playing golf at MAL or Bedford. How many days did that worthless POS actually work?

    Might be better to ask “how many hours…?”  Over 4 years, unlikely to reach triple digits.

  152. 152.

    pluky

    @Kay: What’s wrong with it? Good training method: look it over, then come talk to me when you think you’ve figured it out. The ability to critique one’s work WHILE ONE IS DOING IT is an invaluable skill.

  156. 156.

    lowtechcyclist

    @eversor: ​
     

    The catch is that most voters are voting their culture and religion. It doesn’t matter what you offer them or what you do for them because they are just going to vote for Christian Nationalism or racism and be done with it.

    Well, plenty of young people who were raised as conservative Christians have left that religion. Some ex-evangelicals are still Christian, but hardly Christian nationalists anymore. Others are no longer Christian at all.

    If you’re not a Christian, how about not being a Calvinist? People aren’t predestined to always be the same.

  157. 157.

    RevRick

    @Kay: You bet! The term “mainline” was originally a reference to the wealthy suburbs along the Pennsylvania Railroad main line. But all those Eisenhower Republicans are now voting overwhelmingly Democratic.

  159. 159.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ruckus: ​
     

    The current conservative party is about their rich benefactors getting richer, as it always has been. They don’t really want to smash the country, although it sure seems like it more and more

    The rich benefactors don’t want to smash the country, they just want a country where the rules are heavily tilted their way. But the crazies are increasingly beyond their control. So many of them are in safe districts, and can win without big bucks from the rich. And those safe-district crazies are accurately representing the crazification of their GOP constituents.

  160. 160.

    billcinsd

    @Geminid: You do know that Youngkin was a blank slate because the VA Republican Party anointed him as their nominee without a primary election despite other people that wanted to run for Governor. This allowed Youngkin to run in the general without having to defend a bunch of primary MAGA statements

  161. 161.

    Citizen Alan

    @Betty Cracker: I agree, but it’s not going to happen. Brandon presley is easily the best democratic politician mississippi has seen in thirty years. And hes going to lose to an absolute garbage human who stole money from medicaid patients to curry favor with an ex-NFL star.

  164. 164.

    Bill Arnold

    @Josie:

    According to Political Wire, our former fearless leader posted on Truth Social that General Milley should be executed for treason.

    It’s always projection with Republicans. Always.

  165. 165.

    Geminid

    Michigan Senator Gary Peters showed up in Armenia today, at the entrance to the Lachin Corridor that connects Armenia with the Armenian enclave of Artsakh. Sen. Peters called upon  Azerbaijan’s government to protect the human rights of the enclave’s 120,000 Armenian residents, and for international observers to make sure they do.

    After a two day war earlier this week, the Armenians are being “reincorporated” into Azerbaijan against their will. Delegations representing Azerbaijan and Artsakh are meeting in a town 60 miles north of the Artsakh capital of Stepankert to discuss the process and terms of occupation.

    David Ignatius is a fairly good writer in his area of expertise (not American politics!). His article published today in the Washington Post provides a good summary of the conflict.

    A few highlights: President Aliyev of Azerbaijan made a speech pledging that his government would respect the rights of its Armenian Artsakh citizens; Prime Minister Pashinyan of Armenia is urging Artsakh’s citizens not to leave the centuries-old community, and demanding that Azerbaijan protect them; and U.S. officials are pressing Azerbaijan to enact an amnesty for Artsakh’s fighters and separatist politicians.

  166. 166.

    Geminid

    @billcinsd: I followed the Republicans’ “Disassembled Convention” and the process that led up to it fairly closely. With his money and networking abilities, Youngkin definitely had the strongest hand in a process that was jammed into a few short weeks because the State Committee instituted it so late in the Spring.

    But I’m pretty sure Youngkin would have won a primary if he’d had to. Youngkin had plenty of money, plus he proved to be a hard-working, slick talking retail politician. That’s one reason he won in November.

  167. 167.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: if you can fake sincerity, you got it made

    google tells me that line came from George Burns, I always thought it was Groucho

  168. 168.

    Geminid

    @billcinsd: It’s true that Youngkin was able to win the nomination without a lot of public statements. That might have made the diffence but it might not have. Youngkin’s 3 opponents were not very strong, and his policy positions were standard for the party so there wouldn’t have been that much to argue about. And Youngkin was a sly communicator who excelled at being all things to all people. He was like a chameleon who showed people what they wanted to see.

    And even if Youngkin’s rhetoric happened to give the Democrats some weapons, I’m not sure how effective they would have been in Terry McAuliffe’s fumbling hands.

  169. 169.

    narya

    I’m sorta hoping that Slotkin shows up w/ Joe. She has a very effective message: we know that EVs are going to be built, and we want them to be built HERE, by union workers, rather than overseas. Also, workers made concessions and the US taxpayers bailed out the auto companies; now it’s time for the workers to share in the success and profits. Simple, effective messages.

    Might see you all tonight for the postcards!

  170. 170.

    Tony Jay

    @NotMax:

    Makes sense. If evil spirits really are looking for conduits through which to corrupt the physical world, then Kevin Bacon would be the go through guy.

  172. 172.

    divF

    @Mousebumples:

    Saturday (tonight!) and Tuesdays, 8pm blog time (7pm central)

    and 9:30 PM in Newfoundland and most of Labrador, as they might  say on the CBC.(No, I’m in California, but Mom grew up in Newfoundland).

  173. 173.

    Gvg

    @Ken: They part that gets me is the chances of dying in a mine accident, crushed under tons of rock or suffocated by gas. Hard labor in tight spaces with dangerous conditions always made worse by cheap owners and management. Then there were the company towns, script money, debt, child labor, widows and orphans, company thugs enforcing rules and blackballing people and deadly strikes over the mearest human rights like safer working conditions. How could they be nostalgic for those jobs?

  174. 174.

    wjca

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: if you can fake sincerity, you got it made

    google tells me that line came from George Burns, I always thought it was Groucho

    Dig a little further into google and you can find it attributed to both.  Although Groucho seems to have often given two attributes, like “sincerity and honesty” or “sincerity and fair dealing.”

  175. 175.

    tobie

    @eversor: What data are you basing this on?

    I live in rural America and can tell you that all of my arch-Republican, Trump-loving neighbors are more tuned in to Joe Rogan than any Assembly of God pastor.

    They’re resentful. They have chips on their shoulder because in their skewed, narcissistic worldview, they’re the only people who work and Hollywood and the elites don’t give them the respect they deserve because of Woke ideology.

    All of them–without exception–inherited a small biz or started one in the home trades. They tell me there are too many doctors, too many lawyers, too many eggheads and what we need are men who know how to operate a backhoe.

    There will always be trades people. You can get basic training to be a journeyman with a license to operate in Maryland within 9 months. I don’t disrespect the work but don’t genuflect before it either.

    I’ve never heard one of these people talk about church, faith, prayer, etc.

  178. 178.

    Geminid

    @Gvg: I think that most of the people expressing nostalgia for those jobs are not from Coal Country to begin with. Many do not have working class backgrounds of any kind.

  179. 179.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … KyivIndependent.com:

    President Volodymyr Zelensky presented state awards to two Polish volunteers during a stop in Lublin, Poland, on Sept. 23 for their efforts in supporting Ukraine’s war effort.

    “What you do is significant work—helping and supporting Ukrainians on the front lines, who are truly defending not only Ukraine but, in my view, Europe, the whole world, our common values,” said Zelensky.

    According to the President’s Office, the volunteers were journalist Bianka Zalewska and medic Damian Duda.

    Zalewska started volunteering in eastern Ukraine in 2014 collecting and delivering humanitarian aid. After Russia’s full-scale invasion, she continued her volunteer work, including helping transport seriously ill children to hospitals in Poland for treatment.

    Duda and a team of medics purchased medical supplies at their own expense and traveled to Ukraine to evacuate wounded soldiers to stabilization points on the front lines. He also established a fund that finances the purchase of medications for volunteer medic teams in Ukraine, the President’s Office added.

    Zelensky also acknowledged how much Poland has done for Ukraine since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022.

    “I am proud that Ukraine has such a strong neighbor. I want to thank you. I want to thank the entire Polish nation, all the people who, from the very beginning, opened their families and their homes and stepped up to help. I believe that any challenges on our shared path are nothing compared to the strength between our peoples,” Zelensky said.

    The gesture comes after tensions between Ukraine and Poland in recent days over Ukrainian grain exports. However, Poland’s President Andrzej Duda emphasized on Sept. 22 that the issue must be resolved and would not upend Polish-Ukrainian relations.

    Good, good.

    It’s important for mutual hurt feelings to be repaired quickly.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  180. 180.

    karen marie

    @geg6: Thanks for the reminder. I’ve listened to the others. It’s funny but also competently done. The sound person has done well. Too often group podcasts are an audio mess.

  182. 182.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Gvg:

    They part that gets me is the chances of dying in a mine accident, crushed under tons of rock or suffocated by gas. Hard labor in tight spaces with dangerous conditions always made worse by cheap owners and management.

    My often fabulist FIL said he lied about his age to join the Army during WWII to avoid a life destined to working in the coal mines of Pennsylvania. It is a horrible, brutal occupation. We have an entire political party who will dial back all progress to return to those good old days.

  184. 184.

    Citizen Alan

    @tobie: a lot of my salt of the earth family members subtly look down on me and/or resent me for going to law school. My sister… not so subtly.

  185. 185.

    JoyceH

    @Jeffro: ​
     

    There’s a joke to be had there, somewhere: “A fundie, a billionaire, an anti-vax nut, and Leonard Leo walk into a bar. The bartender says
”

    
so you guys decided to hold the convention here, huh?”

    I’ll work on it!

    Oh, come ON! The punchline writes itself – the bartender says, “Drinking alone, Mister Leo?”

  186. 186.

    Citizen Alan

    @tobie:

    All of them–without exception–inherited a small biz or started one in the home trades.

    You left out the women folk who are Republican because they married well.

  187. 187.

    RaflW

    Just seeing that Andy Kim (NJ-03) has announced he is running for Senate in NJ. Says in a brand new Xitt that “Senator Menendez said ‘I am not going anywhere.’ As a result, I feel compelled to run against him. Not something I expected to do, but NJ deserves better. We cannot jeopardize the Senate or compromise our integrity.”

  188. 188.

    frosty

    It’s been over eight hours since this post went up? I predict three in rapid succession from AL, BC, and WG, followed instantly by one more from The Blogfather.

  190. 190.

    Anotherlurker

    @Sure Lurkalot: Grandfather,  an Italian immigrant who originally worked in a marble quarry,  WA given a choice to either be drafted into the WW1 army or move to PA to mine coal. He moved to PA.  Later in life he always said he should have chosen being drafted into the army.

  192. 192.

    zhena gogolia

    @Omnes Omnibus: Not to complain about something that’s done by volunteers, but it’s always when I’m home alone and bored that the same post is up all day. It’s when I just woke up and have to hurry to get to work that there are five interesting posts all at once.

  193. 193.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @zhena gogolia: ​  I am not complaining. I am just patiently waiting for a new open thread to make my announcement of exciting news.​
     

    ETA: Exciting for me, that is.

  197. 197.

    Spanky

    I’m not bored, I’m just taking a break from some light interior demolition while Ophelia drains the last of summer out of the atmosphere here.

  199. 199.

    bbleh

    @frosty: unfortunately, I’m taking mine OUT of the dryer, which means I have less available to do

    @Spanky: speaking of which, where are all the Ophelia Upp jokes?  Like, when did everyone get all mature and stuff?

    It IS a very fall day here, for the first day of fall.

  204. 204.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Ken: I’ve recently become obsessed with the Everly Brothers and they came from a family of Kentucky coal miners. Don was born in Brownie, Kentucky in 1937. Lucky for the family, their dad Ike, while also a coal miner, was a talented musician, and they moved to Chicago where he could get work in clubs (and get the he’ll out of the mines!)  Phil was born in Chicago in 1939. They moved to Iowa for work at a radio station and that’s where the boys grew up, although they went back to Kentucky for summers. Their dad Ike still died of lung disease unfortunately.  But this is how the bluegrass “high lonesome sound” got into early rock (along with their incredible close harmony singing), due to the Appalachian folk song tradition. But the family sure worked hard to get out of the mines. No nostalgia there.

  206. 206.

    Redshift

    @Kay:

    I’m  huge labor supporter but the ball is really in their court. Biden is the best president for labor ever. If they want to boo hoo about the good old days with Donald Trump and JD Vance they can do that, but they are harming their own families.

    From what I’ve read, even the old retired coal miners are well aware that the jobs went away because of automation. It’s just like a lot of other groups, Republicans are offering them “we won’t fix anything, but we hate the same people you hate and we’ll give you someone to blame.”

  209. 209.

    Redshift

    @Kathleen:

    Thank you so much for sharing that excellent article. (even NYT can provide good political analysis). My question about the excuse that “constituents want this” is do constituents really understand the impact it will have on their day to day lives.

    Absolutely do not take Bob Good’s “my constituents want this” at face value. From an acquaintance in Charlottesville:

    Rep. Bob Good is lying. His large, rural, far-right district includes Charlottesville, an intensely liberal island in central Virginia. I guarantee his office has heard from plenty of us in opposition to a shutdown. Good might have only heard opposition from one constituent *in person*, but that’s because he studiously avoids encountering anybody he disagrees with, which includes steering clear of Charlottesville.

  214. 214.

    Ruckus

    @Gvg:

    They aren’t nostalgic for the early jobs but the later jobs that paid a lot better and had far better working conditions and so on. Those job originally were good jobs because of the pay and that there weren’t a lot of other jobs. We do manufacturing a lot different now than what little was done in the way back. I started working in dad’s manufacturing business at 12 and in the end owned it longer than he did. But when I started everything was manual, the machines or the hand work. Over the decades the processes changed became far more computer operated. The last machine I bought over 30 yrs ago could run for days without operator input and could work to tolerances unheard of when I started. Of course it was not cheap… The world of manufacturing has changed enough that someone my dads age would not recognize it today

  215. 215.

    Geminid

    @Redshift: Besides the liberal enclave if Charlottesville and the somewhat liberal enclave of Albemarle County around it, the Virginia 5th CD also includes plenty of Black Democrats from the Albemarle line all the way to North Carolina.

    I think the 5th was around R+8 after the latest redistricting, but it may be flippable towards the end of the decade on account demographic change.

  216. 216.

    cain

    @tobie: All of them–without exception–inherited a small biz or started one in the home trades. They tell me there are too many doctors, too many lawyers, too many eggheads and what we need are men who know how to operate a backhoe.

    They should not Republican who will support businesses that will use AI to operate those backhoes – and have a few eggheads for maintenance. That’s what the market demands. Supply Jesus also wants that.

    Vote union, vote for labor if they believe in all that. But yeah, you’re going to also have to put up with ‘woke’ which you don’t know what it even means.

  221. 221.

    Matt McIrvin

    @tobie: I grew up around people who were way into the church, faith and prayer stuff, back in the Reagan era. They weren’t rural tradesmen, they were suburbanites who by and large either worked for Beltway defense contractor firms or were the children of such people. I recall a lot of really shiny, spotless pickup trucks. And it was the 1980s, so, a lot of water under the bridge since then.

  222. 222.

    KWDragon

    @Shalimar: ​
     

    I know Biden was friends with McCain, and I know McCain hated Trump, but can we PLEASE not deify this racist jagoff? He elevated Sarah Palin and gave us his spawn, Megan. Haven’t we suffered enough?

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