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You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Monday Morning Open Thread: Let’s F**king Go!

Monday Morning Open Thread: Let’s F**king Go!

by | 232 Comments

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Senator Klobuchar, with a timely reminder:

First (probably?) sh*tshow of the morning:

… The location for Menendez’s press conference is still undetermined. Menendez had asked to use the Colin Powell Elementary School in Union City, where he grew up and served as mayor, but school officials didn’t want the distraction since the school is open tomorrow. Menendez’s office had initially invited people to the school and are now looking for a new location.

It’s also not clear how many elected officials Menendez will be able to muster to stand with him at the press conference…

Maybe his staff can bus in some Repubs!
Monday Morning Open Thread: Let's F*cking Go!

(Clay Jones via GoComics.com)

Reader Interactions

232Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    This week’s @VP schedule:
    Mon: Meeting with POTUS Board of Advisors on Historically Black Universities and Colleges.
    Tues: Morehouse College, part of “Fight for Our Freedoms” college tour.
    Thursday- Florida Intl University
    Fri: Attend Armed Forces honors Gen Milley, Gen Brown Jr

    Say WHAT? No work on Wednesday? What a layabout.

    eta: Did everybody die last night? Or was everyone tailgating a little too hard?

  7. 7.

    Baud

    Menendez’s office had initially invited people to the school and are now looking for a new location.

    I recommend Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    Not sure how they are advertising this as some sort of gotcha. Almost half the Congressionally authorized Ukraine funds were earmarked for humanitarian and economic purposes.

    It’s to get the right wingers that already support Russia extra mad that we’re spending money on liberal things and not just weapons.

  10. 10.

    Ken

    Menendez had asked to use the Colin Powell Elementary School

    I’m not seeing how a twenty-minute press conference in the parking lot or gym would be a distraction. Maybe he asked for a few dozen kids to stand around him looking adorable and (hopefully) discourage reporters from some of the nastier questions?

  11. 11.

    Anne Laurie

    @Ken: I’m not seeing how a twenty-minute press conference in the parking lot or gym would be a distraction.

    Middle schools prefer to keep known criminals away from the students, if possible.

    Seriously — would you want Menendez, trailing a mob of baying ‘journalists’ and hangers-on, showing up to make your establishment the news site of the morning?

  13. 13.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:

    My theory:  It’s because the press is extremely pro-war and loves explosions.  Much like they felt betrayed and furious by leaving Afghanistan, the idea that some of the money that they thought was going to bombs is actually for humanitarian aid offends them.  Clearly they’ve uncovered a scandal!  The American people must know!

  16. 16.

    Warblewarble

    Biden must never be  forgiven, for shifting the economy away from providing bigger yachts to a smaller number of people and towards actually benefitting workers. Dontcha know  tax cuts for rich really, really is the best way to help the disadvantaged. So we have been told.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    @Warblewarble:

    Biden must never be  forgiven, for shifting the economy away from providing bigger yachts to a smaller number of people and towards actually benefitting workers.

     
    This is absolutely correct. The oligarchs see 2024 as a do-or-die election when it comes to their dominant hold over labor.

  19. 19.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    The oligarchs see 2024 as a do-or-die election when it comes to their dominant hold over labor.

    I doubt it. They’ll keep it up until serfdom or indentured servitude becomes “a thing,” and they have enough money to keep playing the long game.

  20. 20.

    narya

    @Baud: I know this is stupid and naive of me, but I will never fully understand the oligarchical desire to squeeze every last penny out of the workers. Truly, it just doesn’t track for me–life is too short to be spending that much time worrying about, as Marge Gunderson said, a little bit of money. Throw on top the immiseration they cause, and . . . I don’t know how one does that.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    @SFAW:

    Of course they won’t just give up.  But I think they understand that if the Dems win next year, it’ll be an inflection point that works against their interests.  It won’t simply be business as usual.

  24. 24.

    lowtechcyclist

    @narya:

    I think it’s much more about control than money.  Like that guy the other day who was saying the workers needed to be put back in their place.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    @narya:

    IMHO the error that workers make is thinking that it’s all about them and that the oligarchs are actually focused on sticking it workers.  For the most part, the oligarchs don’t care about workers.  They care about costs, and workers are a cost just like any piece of machinery.  And just like machinery, workers should be under the dominion of the owners.

    The only thing that distinguishes workers from machinery is that “human capital” sometimes talks back to the owners, and it’s not something their brains process very well.

  29. 29.

    eclare

    As JPL mentioned in a prior thread, go to covid.gov to order four free covid tests.  I just ordered mine, they start shipping the week of October 2.

    Free tests!  Thanks Joe!

  34. 34.

    narya

    @Baud: I see someone has read their Marx . . . and yes, I think you’re right, up to a point. On the other hand, That Guy, the one who thinks workers need to be put in their place, has an opportunity, that he clearly will not take, to consider the workers as actual humans, not cost centers.

  36. 36.

    narya

    @OzarkHillbilly: My conclusion as well, and it depresses me. And enrages me, especially when they turn around and yammer about morality of one kind or another. Greed is not, in fact, good.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    @narya:

    I only have a cursory understanding of Marx, and I’m generally not a fan. I wish someone else had been the pioneer in taking on the worst aspect of capitalism run amok.  But that’s not to say he was wrong about everything.

  38. 38.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … Warning – TheHill.com:

    Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) is ramping up the pressure on Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) to avoid a government shutdown by moving first on a stopgap funding bill that will pass the Senate next week, a few days before the Sept. 30 deadline.

    The Senate’s plan is to send the bill to the House and put pressure on McCarthy to bring it to the floor for a vote it would pass with bipartisan support if given the chance, said senators who are calculating how the endgame will play out.

    But Republican and Democratic senators admit they don’t know what McCarthy will do, and some GOP senators are worried about “sticking our necks out” if the stopgap is doomed to fail in the House.

    “McCarthy’s made the decision to shut the government down. Period. Stop,” Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) said, previewing the rhetorical offensive Senate Democrats will launch against McCarthy this week.

    The Senate is scheduled at 5:30 p.m. Tuesday to take the first in a series of procedural votes that will tee up the Federal Aviation Administration reauthorization bill, which Schumer will use as the legislative vehicle to pass the continuing resolution (CR) to keep the government open.

    […]

    Rodell Mollineau, a Democratic strategist and former Senate leadership aide, said a bipartisan vote on a bill to keep the government open will send a strong message to House Republicans.

    “There’s a reason why Schumer did this. I think part of this was to just show the world that it’s not the United States Senate that’s shutting down the government, that they’ve done their job,” he said. “It’s showing the American people that a strong bipartisan majority of Democrats and Republicans passed legislation not to shut down the government, and should that occur, this is squarely on the backs of House Republicans.”

    […]

    The way these things often work is that one house (usually the Senate) will pass something then leave town, forcing the “other body” to take it or leave it at the deadline. So, Schumer is doing the usual dominance thing, in addition to doing the sensible thing. We’ll see if Qevin’s brainiacs have a counter.

    Grrr…,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    narya

    @Baud: The part that has stuck with me over the years–and what we’re all talking about here–is the part about regarding people as things. The parts about how the state would wither away, well, he got that one wrong. IIRC–and it has been decades, so I might be mistaken–Adam Smith had similar conclusions about workers being cogs in the wheel; the difference is that Marx saw that as a bad, and changeable, thing, rather than a necessary thing. Again, I might be misremembering . . .

  43. 43.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chris T.:

    Or as Terry Pratchett’s character once put it (about sin), “treating people as things“.

    Yeppers. The simple phrase “sin is treating people as things” simplifies a lot of supposedly complex moral issues. Pratchett was an atheist, but this Christian looks forward to seeing him in heaven.

  47. 47.

    Matt McIrvin

    @narya: They know that revolutions happen in times of rising expectations. Give workers an inch and they’ll demand a yard, so they have to make absolutely clear that nobody is getting that inch.

  50. 50.

    H.E.Wolf

    In keeping with the spirit of the post title, I just requested my 2nd batch of addresses for the Ohio pro-choice “Yes on Issue 1” campaign from Postcards To Voters: linktr.ee/postcardstovoters

    As a slow writer, I was happy to find out with my 1st batch that the 3 required sentences (the standard modus operandi for this group) are easy and quick to write… for me, anyway.

    I also get a kick out of their email bot. :-)

  52. 52.

    narya

    @Baud: That could be–it really has been decades since I read him. I’ve read Marx more recently. That said, I don’t particularly care for what folks have done with the theories they found in either Marx or Smith.

    And it was interesting reading those works in light of the anarchist picnics I attended as a kid.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    Of course, some oligarchs really are psychopaths who get off on hurting people.  But I think the average rich person is like Mott Romney, who follow the “people are things” mantra.

  54. 54.

    lowtechcyclist

    @jonas:

    – What do you get an hour?
    For playing, we get $10 an hour.
    – And for not playing?
    $12 an hour.
    – Clip me off a piece of that.
    For rehearsing, we make special rate. That’s $15 an hour.
    – For rehearsing? And for not rehearsing?
    You couldn’t afford it. If we don’t rehearse, we don’t play. And if we don’t play, that runs into money.

    Marx Brothers, Animal Crackers

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Except – CEO pay started to climb as worker pay stagnated in the US. In codetermination, where workers participate on boards with executives, it’s all connected so worker wage increase demands act as a check on upper management and CEO compensation.

    In the US, CEO’s personally benefit when worker wages stagnate. More for them!

  60. 60.

    sab

    @narya: The reason modern CEOs get so much money is that they have a rare skill set: business knowledge (which lots of people have since business degrees are the so common)  combined with a high level of sociopathy. It’s the sociopathy combined with the business skills that is rare.

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: Did you notice the shipping? $123.50. At that price I hope it gets a window seat and it’s own personal masseuse.

  62. 62.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    Except – CEO pay started to climb as worker pay stagnated in the US. In codetermination, where workers participate on boards with executives, it’s all connected so worker wage increase demands act as a check on upper management and CEO compensation.

    In the US, CEO’s personally benefit when worker wages stagnate. More for them!

    Yeah, but these guys have more $$$ than they’ll ever be able to spend.  The answer to why that still isn’t enough is control, and also relative status among their fellow billionaires. Money is the means rather than the end in itself.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    Another way to look at it is that oligarchs see themselves as generals who are at war.  Must generals don’t want to send soldiers to die in battle, but they’ll do it because they have to to fulfill the mission.

  64. 64.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Kay: My first academic job was at a private business college that was theoretically non-profit. Every year, they ran an “overage.” The president got a bonus based on that amount. Every book in the library, every penny paid a teacher cost him money.

    When I took a job at GMI, I got a 50% pay increase and a 25% reduction in teaching load.

  65. 65.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: the average rich person is like Mott Romney, who follow the “people are things” mantra.

    To me, that is the core of being a sociopath.

  66. 66.

    Freemark

    @narya: It isn’t directly about money. Once the rich get above a certain level it’s about power. And the more desperate the peons are the more power they have. I believe it’s the reason they back Republicans. Democrats are demonstrably better for growth and profits. But they are worse for making the ones at the top more powerful.

  67. 67.

    Soprano2

    @eclare: I just did that, it was super easy. It’s important that things like this are easy, and don’t entail filling out reams of forms or going to many screens.

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @sab:

    The reason modern CEOs get so much money is that they have a rare skill set: business knowledge (which lots of people have since business degrees are the so common) combined with a high level of sociopathy. It’s the sociopathy combined with the business skills that is rare. run the place as if they own it.

    FIFY??

    The brainiacs that decided that paying upper management mostly with stock rather than actual pay to “incentivize performance” is what’s destroying so much of corporate America. They have divided loyalties.

    As Kay noted before, upper management makes very good money – as a salary – to do their best for the corporation and the stockholders. That’s plenty of incentive. That’s the incetive for just about everyone else – a pay check. Allowing them to twist things for personal enrichment via plundering the stock should be outlawed. The corporation isn’t theirs to plunder at will.

    It’s yet another pathology of the US tax system that needs to be fixed.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    At some level, it’s necessary.  There are times when you do have to lay off people to keep the business afloat.  That can’t be easy for a good hearted person.

  73. 73.

    Kay

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    This is the Wiki definition of the benefits of codetermination (Germany uses codetermination) :

    On the assumption that the primary goal of employers is to maximize profits in the interests of shareholders, codetermination can reorient the company’s goals in the interests of workers. A better balance may be struck so that the company interests are not so one sided. For unions, codetermination is part of democratizing the economy. It is also a way for workers to better the terms and conditions of their contracts in an orderly and regulated way.

    That’s groovy but I want to talk about the workers they left out- upper management. What’s their primary goal?
    The GM strikers are raising this and it’s good we’re talking about it. That 44 million going to the CEO can also be on the table if we’re maximizing profits in the interests of shareholders. Worker wage increases will put some pressure on CEO compensation to come down. Worker wage increases are better for the rest of us because workers will spend every penny they make where CEO’s just stockpile, creating nepo babies.

  74. 74.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Just placed my order for the covid tests. Then I read this:

    Orders will ship free starting the week of October 2, 2023.

    Oops. Maybe I’ll see them in December.

  75. 75.

    Soprano2

    As a person who employs people, who doesn’t see them as “things” but as people, I try hard in threads like this to keep repeating “That’s not me”. I think the employers who see their employees as things rather than people are not the majority, it just seems like it because they employ so many. I hope that’s the case, anyway.

  76. 76.

    Uncle Jeffy

    @Baud: Both “The Wealth of Nations” and his previous work, “The Theory of Moral Sentiments”, are full of cautionary notes about the failings of capitalism. Worth a read even if you’re not an economist.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    We’re mostly talking about big corporations here, although I’m confident there are small business owners who have the same mindset.  Hopefully not a majority though.

  78. 78.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Baud: Trouble is, you have situations where Zuckerberg spent billions on the Metaverse, a lousy idea that everyone knew was a lousy idea, and when reality finally came knocking on the door, Zuckerberg laid off thousands to make up the difference.

    It’s dangerous when oligarchs are protected from the consequences of their actions.

  79. 79.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: It was interesting to be on the board of my sister’s company that her trust formed for her business after her death. I figured out pretty quickly that I was the only non-management type person there. Sometimes I brought up issues that I think none of them would have thought of. Having some lower-level workers on the board of a company is actually good for them. I continue to believe that when everyone in the room has the same viewpoint, they make worse decisions. That would include if everyone is a lower-level worker!

  84. 84.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: That can’t be easy for a good hearted person.

    None of my bosses ever had a problem with it. Hmmmmm…

    On the slightly more serious side, in construction getting laid off* is inevitable, what else is there to do once the building is finished? But, it is necessary and very few enjoy the doing of it.

    The thing about a sociopath is they don’t feel one way or the other about it. If wealth is the goal, and one accumulates it by buying up companies, selling all it’s parts for a profit, cutting untold numbers of jobs and then declaring the company bankrupt, who cares about the lives destroyed? Mission accomplished!

    Which is how Mitt Romney made his money.

    *I did know a few guys who managed to avoid layoffs but they were few and very far between. Most construction workers are gypsies.

  85. 85.

    Eunicecycle

    @H.E.Wolf: I had kind of a long conversation with the bot yesterday. I guess I wasn’t phrasing it exactly like they wanted. But they kept trying until they understood!

  87. 87.

    Soprano2

    Just saw this at Atrios’ place, and I thought it was worthy of sharing because I think it’s true:

    As I’ve aged and seen my peers evolve in various ways, I’ve realized a pretty good signal for whether people are fundamentally conservative (independent of how they vote or whether they have some good policy views) is how much they get annoyed by other people simply being different.

    I try hard not to be like this, although in some ways I probably am. Changing mores are hard for people, things are different and sometimes confusing. I personally don’t like jeans that look like they need to go in the trash when they’re new (“distressed” is stupid marketing babble) and having 25 piercings in your head. I’ve never been the kind of person who insists that everyone needs to be just like me, though – I guess that comes from being a musician, what’s weird to the average person usually seems pretty normal to me. Conservatives don’t want to think about this at all, they just want to freeze everyone in amber in a time that they are comfortable with.

  88. 88.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    how to balance business risk between investors, management, and workers. I’m not aware of any easy answers to that question.

    Clearly, you’re not CEO material.

  89. 89.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: My sister told me that firing or laying people off was the hardest thing she had to do. She always hoped that eventually problem people would leave. I pointed out to her that the problem people were probably causing problems for other workers, and tolerating them encouraged others to develop bad habits. I think I was tougher about it than she was, but of course I wasn’t the one who actually had to fire people.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    Matthew Yglesias Donald Trump’s repeated threats to abuse various federal regulatory powers in order to censor criticism of him remains a much larger threat to free speech than dozens of other things that attract more attention

    The people who flipped out about “wokeism” and the Oberlin student council are finally, finally getting it. Now they need to add “Ron DeSantis” and “Greg Abbott” -it isn’t just Trump- and they’ll be caught up to where the rest of us have been for the last 7 years.
    Welcome aboard! No one mention how slow they were to get this.

  91. 91.

    Geminid

    @Uncle Jeffy: Adam Smith was one of a very enlightened bunch of Scotsmen. Besides Smith and philosopher David Hume, there was also the geologist James Hutton (1727- 1797). Hutton’s observations of Scottish rock formations led him to the theory that, contrary to the story of Genesis, the Earth is in fact very old.

    This influential and extra-Biblical theory predated Darwin’s by decades. James Boswell would not have been surprised that a Scotsman did it first, and better.

  92. 92.

    Kay

    A.R. Moxon
    @JuliusGoat
    Many free speech absolutists seem not to realize that it’s not just defending people they like, like Nazis and religious weirdos. If they truly believe in free speech, they have to defend all sorts, even schoolteachers and librarians and children they don’t like the look of.

  94. 94.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Time to take Percy to the groomer. When I pick him up this afternoon he’ll refuse to talk to me for at least 4 minutes.

  96. 96.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Taxation, monetary policy and fiscal policy and regulation of the capital markets guided by general welfare is what is needed. The only way to get it is to vote for Ds

    *And strong labor, which means powerful unions.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    Donald Trump wrote that we have to execute the witnesses against him in his upcoming criminal trial.

    If political media and The Atlantic and the NYT and WaPo don’t recognize that as authoritarianism I do not know what would qualify. I know they’re all rigidly conventional, brittle people who MUST INSIST everything is normal and fine because they can’t adjust to change but this is a real threat to our core national values. That doesn’t mean we have to run around in circles screaming but rational, sensible people recognize the threat.

  98. 98.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Baud: It’s hard to see people as things when you work with them directly. It’s hard to see people as people when you manage an organization that employs thousands of them.

  99. 99.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Eunicecycle: @H.E.Wolf: I had kind of a long conversation with the bot yesterday. I guess I wasn’t phrasing it exactly like they wanted. But they kept trying until they understood!​

     I know! It’s so earnest! :-)

  100. 100.

    eclare

    Watching NFL highlights on Morning Joe.  The Miami Dolphins scored seventy points?  Wow.  Did all of the Broncos miss the flight?

    Plus Taylor Swift showed up somewhere and an NFL game appeared in front of her.

  101. 101.

    Betty Cracker

    There’s a Politico story about a fat cat Repub donor, John Odom, who was backing Louisiana AG Jeff Landry in the GOP gubernatorial primary — until he heard Landry had hired former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. Now Odom wants his money back and is urging Louisianans to vote for other candidates.

    That’s because in 2021, Lewandowski made unwanted advances on Odom’s wife, Trashelle Odom, at a Las Vegas charity event:

    “On the evening of September 26 in Las Vegas, Nevada, I attended a dinner to support a charity and spend time with wonderful friends,” Odom said in a statement to POLITICO. “He repeatedly touched me inappropriately, said vile and disgusting things to me, stalked me, and made me feel violated and fearful,” she said, referring to Lewandowski.

    The Odoms were Trump donors too, and the incident caused the Trump PAC to sever ties with Lewandowski.

    Three things:

    1) Lewandowski is a vile pig, and Mrs. Odom’s account of his antics at the event are believable because Lewandowski has a track record of crude, violent behavior and other attendees corroborated Mrs. Odom’s account.

    2) Mrs. Odom shouldn’t have to put up with harassment like that — no one should, including the many victims of Donald Trump, whom the Odoms supported. Go figure!

    3) I’ve now christened the raccoon who occasionally messes with our garbage can “Trashelle.”  

  102. 102.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I cannot believe this wasn’t a blaring red emergency headline in every newspaper and on every political talk show. I guess they’ve lost their sense of proportion when it comes to TFG, but this is a horrendous thing that he said. Trevor Noah warned us in 2015 that TFG was just like the African dictators he was familiar with, he said the same things they said and acted just like they did. A statement like this one is something Putin or Xi would say, and then do. I wonder if Milley will now have to shell out a bunch of money for security to protect him from the MAGAs. This is a severely underreported problem, that anyone who crosses TFG has to worry about being attacked by one of his rabid, highly-armed cult members.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    wsj
    25m
    Taylor Swift attended an NFL game this weekend. It was only a matter of time before the powerful entertainment forces collided, and the double-unicorn magic happened Arrowhead Stadium, where a suite-nested Swift watched the Kansas City Chiefs demolish the Chicago Bears—amid unconfirmed gossip that she’s “dating” All-Pro tight end Travis Kelce.

    She’s amassing still more power.

  107. 107.

    Jackie

    @eclare: Ordered! Thanks for the reminder😊

    Also at the link you can find updated expiration dates for Covid test kits before you toss them away.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    The Trumpists ape him too. They were threatening elections workers here in the last election, the special on the ballot initiative where they lost. They attended the certification of the vote (because they don’t understand the process and think this is counting-it’s not- counting is over) and made threats in the parking lot. Luckily the county prosecutor heard the threats and jumped on them threatening arrest, so they scattered. She’s a Republican, btw. She was horrified.

  109. 109.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: That’s the thing – I think these people are a small group, but they’re dangerous and mostly highly-armed. Members of a cult can be dangerous when their cult leader is threatened.

  110. 110.

    eclare

    @Soprano2:

    Oh I am aware of the juggernaut that is Taylor Swift.  I am not a Swiftie, but even I bought a ticket to her concert movie coming out in October.

    Her tour, and Beyonce’s, powered the summer economy.  Glad her movie will do the same for fall.

  111. 111.

    Steeplejack

    @Betty Cracker:

    I know the stories behind many family names might be lost to history, but i’d really like to know the one behind Trashelle. Also why no family member said, “Eh, maybe we should retire that, like we did with Ephigenia and Dumpsterina.”

  112. 112.

    Mel

    @Ken: Retired teacher here.

    The kids would be fired up and chaotic from the moment someone saw the first tv station van arrive until three hours after everyone finally had left.

    Teachers would have to explain over and over that it wasn’t

    a. Taylor Swift or Beyonce arriving to surprise the student body with an impromptu concert

    b. a CSI team responding to unearth bodies discovered by the maintenance crew, or

    c. a response to a bomb threat or active shooter threat (a possibility constantly in the forefront of every child’s and teacher’s mind the moment an “official” or media vehicle shows up, or a group is seen gathering or moving unexpectedly).

    It would be a gargantuan shitshow, with the office besieged with calls from concerned or confused parents, the kiddo rumor and tweet mill flying at full, fantastical speed, and about 1/4 of the kids (justifiably) terrified that their lives were in imminent danger.

    Welcome to modern education…

  113. 113.

    eclare

    @Steeplejack:

    I cannot comprehend looking at a baby girl and thinking Trashelle is a suitable name.  We are naming our baby after garbage!  And giving her a great pole dancer name!  Was Michelle too common?

  114. 114.

    Betty Cracker

    @Steeplejack: Okay, Dumpsterina is the name of the other raccoon. ;-) I don’t know the origin of Trashelle, but it is allegedly pronounced TRU-shel. (FRONK-en-stein!)

  117. 117.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Geminid:

    This influential and extra-Biblical theory predated Darwin’s by decades. James Boswell would not have been surprised that a Scotsman did it first, and better.

    Darwin wasn’t trying to prove or contradict anything about the age of the Earth.  Hell, he wasn’t even really trying to show that evolution was a thing; the open question he and Wallace independently settled was the mechanism by which evolution took place.

  119. 119.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    You cannot fucking tell me that if Trump or DeSantis or Abbott were LIBERAL leaders that political media would not be sounding the alarm. My God, it would be 24/7 screeching about Leftist leaders taking over the country. There would be comparisons to Communist autocrats DAILY, in every newspaper.

    Imagine if a liberal governor had taken over a public university on the direction of a pure ideologue like Rufo?

    They’re stil gamely trying to jam this into the Reagan box they are familiar with because it’s Right wing and they’re more comfortable with Right wing than Left wing.

  122. 122.

    artem1s

    Age (experience) is Biden’s super power. Joe’s not afraid to say the hard parts out loud anymore. It seems as if most of the rest of the party is getting on board with ignoring the chaff from the MSM about his age and the deficit and inflation and their weird transphobia crap. If Dems continue to follow his lead, are enthusiastic about their progress, stay committed to protecting everyone’s rights, and say the hard parts out loud, the voters will notice.

  124. 124.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Yep, they have really internalized the message that “conservative” means “safe” and “regular white people” and “liberal” means “dangerous change” and “those people are weird”. It’s just so shocking that a former president said that a military leader SHOULD BE EXECUTED. And that all of his cult leaders are happily repeating the message on social media. In spite of everything that’s happened since 2015 the press is STILL in the mode of “Oh, he doesn’t really mean it, that’s just overheated rhetoric”. If January 6th didn’t push them off this paradigm, I don’t think anything ever will.

  128. 128.

    wjca

    @narya:  I don’t particularly care for what folks have done with the theories they found in either Marx or Smith.

    Both get a bad rap, Marx from the right and Smith from the left.  In fact, both laid the foundations for their disciplines — sociology and economics respectively.

    Did they get stuff wrong?  Of course.  That happens a lot in science, especially in a new field: you take your best shot at explaining what you see.  Then others come along, often with additional evidence, and come up with a better explanation.  Rather often, a century later our understanding of the field looks very different from where it started.  That’s not really a fault of the guy who got everyone started looking at it seriously.

    Anyone who wants to trash socialism or communism, go after Lenin. (You could also go after Trotsky.  But he’s no longer an influence.)  “Marxism” isn’t something that Marx would recognize.  Nor approve of IMHO.

  129. 129.

    wjca

    @lowtechcyclist: these guys have more $$$ than they’ll ever be able to spend.  The answer to why that still isn’t enough is control, and also relative status among their fellow billionaires. Money is the means rather than the end in itself.

    Not just their fellow billionaires.  It’s a general way to impress those who have no knowledge or understanding of what they do or why it might be valuable (if it is).  It’s just a way to say “I must be important, because look how much money I have/make!”  In short (snark deliberate), pursuit of more money simply a dick measuring contest.

    ETA: Note that taxes don’t really come into it.  You can boast about your high salary just as well, even if it’s taxed at 95%.

  132. 132.

    CliosFanBoy

    I gave up on 60 Minutes years ago when they did a story on something on which I had first-hand knowledge. It was a total smear job. Forget liberal vs. conservative bias. They just go for the “gotcha” sensationalism even if they have to fake it.

  135. 135.

    wjca

    @artem1s: Age (experience) is Biden’s super power.

    Predicting the 2025 postmortems: Biden won because TIFG’s (or whoever’s) fans believed all that stuff they kept hearing over and over and over about Biden being old and incompetent.  So they figured the election was a slam dunk and didn’t make a serious effort — since it was obviously unnecessary.  Oops.

  136. 136.

    eclare

    @rikyrah:

    I got mine last Thursday.  Unlike the previous five shots, I got a sore arm and some redness where I got the shot (it’s still sore if I touch the shot area).  Still better than getting covid.

    But no tiredness, aches, etc.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I got flu and covid this AM at CVS. Young man waiting for a scrip told older man ahead of me that older man was “brave” for getting covid shot. Older man (frustrated tone) said “oh, I’m not going to argue with you about this” and then started trying to persuade him.

    If we say we’re not going to engage with them we have to follow thru :)

    Discipline!

  138. 138.

    Betty Cracker

    @wjca: Sounds like a solid prediction to me. The concern about Biden’s age is real and not wholly a media-driven phenomenon. But when it sinks in that it’s a binary choice between Biden and the twice-impeached, two-time popular vote loser, serially indicted for serious felonies and increasingly unhinged Trump, I think we’ll go with Option A.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: A lot of people thought Darwin was trying to disprove the Bible, or at least that the implications of his theory tended to disprove a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis.

    The potential application of Darwin’s findings to human evolution is the reason “Darwinism” became such a bone of contention between fundamentalist Christians and secular modernists. If John Scopes had just taught the geological theory James Hutton proposed, he might not have attracted much attention. Instead, thanks to his subject matter and the good people of Dayton, Tennessee,* Scopes became a sensation.

    * I passed through Dayton, Tennessee a few years ago. A friend and I saw it on our way from Atlanta to see the solar eclipse from points north. Dayton seemed like a nice town, at least outwardly.

  141. 141.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Kay: Thank you.  Funny how so many of the “free speech” lovers’ principles go right out the window, the moment you bring up Black Lives Matter.

  145. 145.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @rikyrah: Glad to hear it.  We got ours Sat and felt pretty crappy most of yesterday (lots of body aches and I felt feverish).  Feeling much better now.  Though we also got flu vaccine on Sat, so it might have been that one that we were reacting to.  Either way, not the worst recovery imaginable.  Fairly quick and much better than what Covid/Flu can do.

  146. 146.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    There are two potential causes for concern a out Biden’s age. Neither bears much discussion because he is surrounded by a team of highly competent professionals and his succesor, should he truly need to step down, is more than up to the job.

  149. 149.

    Matt

    The House must pass a budget bill that reflects the bipartisan agreement that the Senate and House made in June.

    Or what? Centrist Dems will roll over and surrender so hard it’s embarrassing?

    The House GOP were lying in June, as anybody but the “bipartisanship” brigade already knew.

  150. 150.

    lowtechcyclist

    @cain:

    10 and 12 and hour during the time of the Marx Brothers is a pretty good deal!

    Certainly for one person, but this was for an orchestra.

  151. 151.

    catclub

    @CliosFanBoy: I gave up on 60 Minutes years ago when they did a story on something on which I had first-hand knowledge.

     

    I think this is named the “Murray Gell-Mann effect.”  When reading about something you know well versus reading the same press about something you know less well…. and trusting them to get THAT right, just not the thing you know about.

  152. 152.

    Righteous Hazard

    @artem1s:

    Biden’s superpower:

    While every republican in washington is mindlessly reprising a role in a really shitty play written by Newt Gingrich almost thirty years ago, while believing their dumb bit parts are heroic, Biden is the Bill Murray character who starts having fun when he realizes that he gets to wake up every morning and get the country through another Groundhog Day.

  153. 153.

    Matt

    @Geminid:

    he implications of his theory tended to disprove a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis

    All it takes to do that is one question: where did Abel and Cain’s wives come from?

    The greatest day in the history of humanity will be when the last “holy book” is thrown onto the embers of the last “holy place”.

  154. 154.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @UncleEbeneezer: Thank you.  Funny how so many of the “free speech” lovers’ principles go right out the window, the moment you bring up Black Lives Matter.

    If your speech makes them feel bad about their own speech, that’s a violation of their own free speech rights. So their speech is free, yours is only free to the point where any noteworthy criticism of then is made, then it must be restricted.

  156. 156.

    catclub

    @Betty Cracker: ​
     

    I’ve now christened the raccoon who occasionally messes with our garbage can “Trashelle.”

    It may be apocryphal, but I heard of being named for where one was conceived ( Jamaica, Aruba perhaps?). Formica Dinette is wonderfully commercially specific.

  157. 157.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Geminid:

    A lot of people thought Darwin was trying to disprove the Bible, or at least that the implications of his theory tended to disprove a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis.

    More significantly IMHO is that fundies nowadays believe that Darwin was responsible for the notion that the world isn’t just 6000 years old.  In their ignorance, they have no idea that was disproved well before Darwin set foot on the Beagle.

  160. 160.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Matt:

    The greatest day in the history of humanity will be when the last “holy book” is thrown onto the embers of the last “holy place”.

    Great. Now we’ve got two eversors.

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @catclub:

    Yes. I never got covid, which amazes me because we never closed the business and I live in such a Trumpy area. We had two distinct “spikes” where lots of people were hospitalized and, well, often died. I do probate work so I was aware of how many were dying. Many. I once got the flu so bad I passed out in the bathroom and hit my head on the side of the bathtub on the way down however, so I always get the flu shot now.

  162. 162.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Matt: I’m not a big fan of bipartisanship for bipartisanship’s own sake. That’s how we get a lot of extreme policy marketed as uncontroversial or a worthy compromise.

    I am a fan of knowing when we need to work together in some regard. Rs have the House, Ds have the Senate. How do we get a solution that doesn’t involve a compromise that large portions of both parties can get behind.

    McCarthy can fix this in an instant by sacrificing his position to sideline the tantrum caucus. He’d even be an American hero for exactly one day, like Mike Pence.

  170. 170.

    rikyrah

    @eclare:

    Her tour, and Beyonce’s, powered the summer economy

     

    The utter production value of Beyonce’s concert is stunning me.

    I have literally followed it since it opened in Europe thanks to TikTok.

    The lack of repeated costumes is jaw dropping.

    And to watch Blue Ivy grow in confidence, as the concert tour goes on. Comparing her initial dances in the beginning to the latest in Houston – she has grown more confident, and it’s just a delight to see.

  171. 171.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: and his succesor, should he truly need to step down, is more than up to the job.

    I suspect this unspoken sentiment is responsible for a lot of Democrats being comfortable with voting for Biden. Though in fact he strikes me as the type of super-fit older gentleman who is running rings around people 30 years younger. We just lost a friend of that description whose death at 96 still came as somewhat of a surprise.

    I suspect unspoken thoughts about his successor also drive a lot of Republican foaming at the mouth about age. In fact I remember some of that coming out explicitly in the 2020 campaign, a picture of Kamala with words to the effect of  “do you really want her to be one heartbeat away?”

    Yeah, damn right I do. Why would I not?

  173. 173.

    TS

    Be easier to say who Kamala is unpopular with – old white men. And by no means all of them.

    (someone else has probably noted this already)

  174. 174.

    rikyrah

    @artem1s:

    Age (experience) is Biden’s super power

     

    I agree. His age, combined with his decades in Washington, and actually WANTING TO HELP PEOPLE. His strength is the ability to inform his staff to get into the weeds of government and find the levers to help the average person. There’s a talent there. A skillset – from those who learn the ins and outs of government. Joe Biden is one of those people , and he staffed his Administration with them.

  175. 175.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @TS: As a white man emerging into middle-age, I promise not to abruptly start hating Kamala Harris in 20 to 30 years.

  178. 178.

    Kay

    Right wingers are seething at Taylor Swift’s new bf because he does endorsements for Pfizer vaccines and Bud Light. I think it’s hysterical because it’s almost like he’s fucking with them deliberately – vaccines! Bud Light! Leaving a football game you won with a beautiful, successful woman, the two of you in a convertible. 

    lol. Seething. The pencil necked, unattractive Nazi rape enabler you tubers think he’s not masculine enough.

  182. 182.

    opiejeanne

    @eclare: The Seahawks had a ceremony honoring team members from 2013, the year they won the Super Bowl, and after the game the announcers were joking that it was too bad that Russell Wilson couldn’t be there.

  183. 183.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: ​ They have a pretty twisted idea of what is masculine, not that this is news to you or anyone else around here.

  185. 185.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: We’ve never had covid either, and we live in a Trumpy area, and my husband works with all Trumpsters. I don’t know how we dodged it. My sister and I stayed up half the night talking and laughing one time, and the next day she tested positive. I was sure I would too. Nope!

  186. 186.

    eclare

    @rikyrah:

    I knew it was KC, I was being sarcastic.

    Considering she pumped a billion dollars plus into the economy this summer, she, along with Beyonce, are important people to follow.

  188. 188.

    Jackie

    O/T But Nikki Haley’s high heels apparently found a sensitive area on TIFG. He has acknowledged her with a nickname: Nikki Birdbrain Haley 😂

    I wonder if her accusing him of tripling the country’s national debt had anything to do with it?🤔

  189. 189.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Baud: Yep. Much of what Smith wrote about was the need for some sort of management (dare I say “regulation”) of what we’d now consider “the markets.”

  191. 191.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    lol . Emasculating!

    They’re actually mad because Swifties have so much fun and Swift herself had such a good time at the game.

    They hate that.

  192. 192.

    rikyrah

    It’s Biden AND Harris 2024. Deal with it. (@What46HasDone) posted at 1:22 PM on Sun, Sep 24, 2023:
    Lol. Trump’s “union” rally is going to be held at a non-union shop that is far from Metro Detroit.

    Like I’ve said, he’s not going to support the union. He’s going to tell them to hate EVs and then break the strike and go back to work.

    He’s holding a scab rally.
    (https://x.com/What46HasDone/status/1706011169503244699?t=B95sEouV4mnLT6vwkWlEXA&s=03)

  194. 194.

    hueyplong

    @rikyrah: He’s not going to resign today.  Things have a way of developing.  Seeing as how he beat the rap last time, it’s to be expected that he’d be all I’ll Fight This for at least a while this time.  But this time things will likely be different than last time.

    All ahead full on the primary challenge is exactly the right move.

  196. 196.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    I don’t know what they’re mad about. They have male role models. Donald Trump. Russell Brand. Matt Gaetz. Andrew Tate. Hmmm. What do all these men have in common, I wonder?

  197. 197.

    Geminid

    @rikyrah: There will be a couple good primary candidates if Rep. Sherill joins Rep. Kim in the field. But they won’t neccesarily be challengers; Menendez could well be off the board by the time New Jersey’s primary rolls around.

  198. 198.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @rikyrah: Of course, the rabble who are…revolting (heh, heh) need the example of those who are properly deferential to their superiors. 

  199. 199.

    Jackie

    @opiejeanne: 😂 We Seahawks fans will never forgive his arrogant greed for the zillions Denver blew on him.

    Of course Wilson doesn’t care as he counts his money.

    AND he broke my daughter’s heart, so my distain for him is personal!

  201. 201.

    wjca

    @Jackie: Nikki Haley’s high heels apparently found a sensitive area on TIFG. He has acknowledged her with a nickname: Nikki Birdbrain Haley

    I wonder if her accusing him of tripling the country’s national debt had anything to do with it?

    Probably not.  Running up debts, and then defaulting on them (or getting them “refinanced” by Putin’s friends), seems to be his standard MO.  So why should he care about the national debt?

  202. 202.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @sab:

    It’s the sociopathy combined with the business skills that is rare.

    A good friend of mine spent decades being an MBA’s MBA. He did quite well, but finally had what (at the time) was considered a nervous breakdown. He just could not compartmentalize any more the horror that was and is American capitalism away from his “real” life. He said he felt that everyday he was helping a system that was clearly designed to not only benefit the very, very few, but also to absolutely crush everyone else. The number of sociopaths he had to work with was, to him, staggering.

    I’m not saying he gave away all of his money, but he now lives in a modest home in the mid-west and spends easily 40+ hours per week tending to the elderly and, separately, doing the grubbiest work for two food banks.

    He’s enjoying life.

  205. 205.

    Soprano2

    @catclub: There was a story from a local TV station about complaints that the manholes on a certain stretch of pavement were too low. One of the comments was “why didn’t they get manholes that were flush to begin with?”. You have no idea how much I had to restrain myself from posting a reply that said something like “Tell me you know NOTHING about how these things are built without telling me”. I mean, that is such a stupid comment I wouldn’t even know where to begin. You make them level when the road is paved, you don’t buy “level manhole covers”. Can’t roll my eyes enough.

  206. 206.

    Ruckus

    @narya:

    When humans are enthralled over money more than anything else they will look for it wherever they can. And if they think that way, other humans have far less value than they do, so of course they are going to look at every last damn penny’s that they are squeezing out of everyone they can. And many humans are far more interested in how much money they can claim as their own than any other living being. It is for them a show of how great a human they are. For everyone else it is a show of either where they’d like to be or that this person has zero actual value as a human being.

  207. 207.

    Geminid

    @wjca: Personal financial practices aside, Trump may see that the Debt issue could be a good line of attack against him. I think it would be in capable hands, but his challengers are not very capable.

  211. 211.

    opiejeanne

    @Geminid: He probably would have been the Guest of Honor, other than the MVP of the game (who got to raise the 12 flag), except he was busy QBing the Broncos loss, 70 to 20 yesterday.

  214. 214.

    wjca

    @Geminid: Trump may see that the Debt issue could be a good line of attack against him. I think it would be in capable hands, but his challengers are not very capable.

    Not sure how they would do that, without mentioning that the reason he exploded the debt was . . . tax cuts for the rich.  Which position is unthinkable.  And, since Republican were in control of Congress, and didn’t slash spending when they had the chance, it’s hard to bring up that missed opportunity.

  215. 215.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I can’t even imagine how conflicted a lot of our KC fans at the bar are. To a person they love Kelce, and now he’s “outed” as maybe being a liberal. How ever will they reconcile the two things? Or maybe he’s just making money…….

  216. 216.

    Anyway

    @rikyrah:

    There’s a talent there. A skillset – from those who learn the ins and outs of government. Joe Biden is one of those people , and he staffed his Administration with them.

    Obama’s two terms were great for building the Dem “bench” in terms of staffing the admin (below the cabinet level). Biden (and Klain)  really built on staffers  with experience from earlier D admins.

  217. 217.

    opiejeanne

    @Jackie: Before Denver offered him so much money there was  some talk about his dissatisfaction with playing for Pete and the Seahawks. I think he thought he should be running the team, as he was undoubtedly The Star.

  218. 218.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @wjca:

    It’s just a way to say “I must be important, because look how much money I have/make!”

    Ego.  How many people are driven by the desire to feel good about themselves?  Control over others is a huge ego boost, and the most visceral control over others is when you can treat them like shit and they have to take it.

    This is the core of plutocracy.  They don’t care which government makes them the richest.  They care which government makes them feel like gods.

    @rikyrah:

    I assume he has a tight end and good for her having some fun.

    It reminds me of one of my favorite music videos ever, the original video for It’s Raining Men.  The singers are having so much fun surrounding themselves with himbos and I love it.

    Confession:  It’s Taylor, so she’s probably managed to scoop up a tight end and a good person she meshes with, but if she’s just playing with a hot toy I salute her for that, too.

  220. 220.

    CaseyL

    @Jackie: I noticed Wilson’s declining skills after his first injury (to his leg): I saw he wasn’t as agile as he had been, and he kept slowing down after that.

    I did not notice his lack of skills in reading defenses or throwing over the middle – because he had been, in his prime, such a magician those things didn’t register. Now that the magic is gone, those lacks are prominent, and serious.

    But the way he trashed Seattle and the Seahawks on his way out pissed me off, a lot.  So I have been feasting on schadenfreude watching the ongoing Denver Debacle.

  221. 221.

    Geminid

    @wjca: Yes, if this was a matter of rational argument Republicans would have to admit to the effect their tax cuts had on the National Debt. But these Republican primaries will see little rational argument. In this respect, they will be kind of like those food deserts nutritionists warn us about.

  222. 222.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    There’s a photo out there with him raising his arm with a vaxx band aid on it – part of a Pfizer promo. They caught him. It’s like when Donald Trump was adjudicated to be a rapist for liberals.

  223. 223.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    There’s a photo out there with him raising his arm with a vaxx band aid on it – part of a Pfizer promo. They caught him. It’s like when Donald Trump was adjudicated to be a rapist for liberals.

  224. 224.

    JML

    @Kay: Taylor Swift is pretty amazing. It’s got to be hard for her to date; whomever she’s seeing has to be comfortable enough in their own skin to not care that they’ll basically never be the more successful person in the couple, and almost certainly never be as accomplished in their own field as she is in hers. As great as Kelce is (and he’s a great TE, an eventual HoFer) he’s never been the best or most important person on his team and never will be so long as Mahomes is there. He seems pretty ok with that, so maybe that will help.

    I can’t even conceive of what Taylor Swift’s level of fame means for her life. Good on her if she’s having fun with someone like Kelce, who seems like a decent sort.

  225. 225.

    Jackie

    @opiejeanne: Absolutely. He made the Broncos’ front office fire their new  head coach after only one season to get Sean Payton from NOLA – who he wanted Carroll replaced with.

    The Saints are doing great, while Payton is probably second guessing his move.

  226. 226.

    Jackie

    @CaseyL: You and me and a whole lot of Seahawks fans😂

    And, I’m trilled Geno had a stellar season last year and is on his way to another!💙💚💙

  229. 229.

    rikyrah

    @wjca:

    Not sure how they would do that, without mentioning that the reason he exploded the debt was . . . tax cuts for the rich.  Which position is unthinkable.  And, since Republican were in control of Congress, and didn’t slash spending when they had the chance, it’s hard to bring up that missed opportunity.

     

    1 out of 4 dollars in our debt is because of the GOP TAX SCAM.

  231. 231.

    wjca

    @rikyrah: 1 out of 4 dollars in our debt is because of the GOP TAX SCAM

    My first thought was to ask for a reference.  Since my sense is that it’s a lot closer to half; in fact, probably closer to 3/4.

    But then I realized that you were only talking about the latest tax cut scam.

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