Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Come on, man.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

I’m just a talker, trying to find a channel!

Washington Post’s Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Biden: Oh no. We’ve upset Big Pharma again.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Let there be snark.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

So many bastards, so little time.

I am pretty sure Katy Tur wasn’t always such a bootlicking sycophant.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

In after Baud. Damn.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

You are here: Home / Politics / Religion / Religious Nuts / Christian Nationalism

Christian Nationalism

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One of the more infuriating things about people in the mainstream starting to wake up to the fact that the Republicans are overtly all about Christian nationalists is remembering all the times I argued with people and they ignored me- “Trust me they don’t just want to stop at 16 weeks they want to end it for everyone and ending abortion is just the beginning” and get met with “no they don’t just a few crazy ones.” As Americans become less religious the ones who are religious have become louder and more crazy. And I am just tired of their stranglehold on public policy.

Reader Interactions

109Comments

  1. 1.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    It’s clear that Christian Nationalists are not interested in governing, they’re all about total control. They want to rule, not govern.

    ETA: I hear that some of the last old school Repubs are retiring this year. I have no doubt that they will quickly be replaced with Christian Nationalists. The GOP is becoming the CNP.

  2. 2.

    Chief Oshkosh

    If the “old school” Republicans really meant it, they wouldn’t have voted Mike Johnson for Speaker. In fact, they should’ve either retired now or simply all been absent so that Jeffries would be voted in as Speaker.

    None of them are fit to serve. They’re not fit for much else, either. Hell, Buck is getting all this press about not running in the future, as if that is some kind of brave, moral stand. Fuck and and fuck the press that’s going along with that narrative. He’s a deluded, immoral coward.

  3. 3.

    ETtheLibrarian

    As Americans have become less religious is precisely why the christofacists have gotten much louder.

  4. 4.

    Josie

    All we can hope for is that we actually do outnumber them.​
     ETA: And that the normies realize where things are headed before it’s too late.

  5. 5.

    dmsilev

    They’re coming for gay marriage, birth control, any pretense of separation of church and state (but only _church_, and only the proper sort of church, of course), and a bunch of other things.

    And tax cuts for rich people. Can’t forget that.

  6. 6.

    Geminid

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: I guess you are talking about Kay Granger (TX) and Ken Buck (CO). Those could be interesting primaries.

    Democrats will have primaries to replace two retiring Democratic Representatives in Maryland and a couple more in Virginia. Oregon will have one also, to replace Rep. Blumenaur. Those will also be interesting.

  7. 7.

    Gvg

    Start talking about the 30 years war, the English civil war, the French huegonts, why so many different groups needed a place to flee and ended up in the colonies because they lost a fight with other Christians about how to be Christian and needed to escape. If your minister starts preaching what you think is wrong, you switch churches no big deal. What if Congress votes on how your minister has to teach and you have to pray, and people go to jail if they do it wrong. That’s why religion was separated from government here. They think they will always be on the winning side, but it won’t work like that.

    They have taught themselves a false incomplete history. I hate to say it, but home schooling is going to have to be addressed. Maybe eliminated even though some are good at it. It’s a bad idea to allow isolation of kids. You get abuse that way too.

  8. 8.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    I agree… they built the pile of shit that they are now fleeing. The monster they have been feeding has taken over the party and they act as if they had nothing to do with it.

  9. 9.

    Kent

    I’m related to a bunch of these people.  I come from a family of conservative Mennonites who are rapidly sliding into Christian Nationalism.  Their family Facebook feeds are a blend of Trumpism, photos of their kids in camo posing in front of the deer and ducks they have shot, and various rural evangelical Christian memes.

    I’m not sure what your distinction is between governing and ruling. But they most definitely want to govern according to their particular interpretations of Old Testament doctrine.  Strangely they are silent when it comes to the more liberal aspects of New Testament theology.

  10. 10.

    Ohio Mom

    @Geminid: When you use the word “interesting” all I can think of is the last thing any patient wants to be, a medically interesting case.

    That usually means the doctors don’t know what to do and they’ll be winging it. May or may not work in your favor. Nowhere near as optimal as having a evidence-based protocol to follow.

    TL/dr: the word “interesting” makes me nervous.

  11. 11.

    Suzanne

    @dmsilev: They’re also coming for no-fault divorce, any religion other than right-wing Protestantism or Catholicism in public life, and women in any positions of power or influence at all.

  12. 12.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @dmsilev:

    They want to destroy support systems for families because they believe these services have usurped the rightful power that men have held over women since forever. They believe that welfare and other programs allow women to pick their victim… I mean husband, have kids, divorce him, take half of his stuff and ruin his life. All because he hit her a few times because she forgot her place.

    That is why Idaho is refusing federal assistance for families. They want to put the men back in control of women by giving them nowhere else to turn for help.

  13. 13.

    Damien

    The main thing I think religious lunatics have going for them is the fact that they care SO MUCH about what other people are doing. They’ll go out on TV and start talking about the moral position this, and the moral position that, and pretty soon normal people who just don’t give a fuck their neighbors are gay start saying “hey wait a minute, maybe I AM immoral, cause it’s not like anybody’s out there saying that wanting to control the lives of people who aren’t you is fucking immoral and wrong.”

    People who just want to live their lives and be left alone by other people’s dumb moral rules aren remotely as zealous.

    We need a National Leave Us Alone movement.

  16. 16.

    dmsilev

    @Suzanne: Our new Speaker has one of those “covenant” marriage things, which as I understand it is basically a way to end-run around no-fault divorce laws.

    So, yeah.

  17. 17.

    Soprano2

    @ETtheLibrarian: The conservative religious ones think they have a right to have the world be comfortable for them all the time everywhere. It used to be, and they want that back. If they have to make their religious beliefs the law of the land to make things that way, they think that’s ok.

  18. 18.

    MobiusKlein

    Can somebody ask Mike J. what his kids dressed up as for Halloween?
    Cause I bet dollars to donuts he does not let them partake in such pagan affairs.

    Show how out of touch they are with the regular fun and enjoyment of actual Americans.

  19. 19.

    Marmot

    “Trust me they don’t just want to stop at 16 weeks they want to end it for everyone and ending abortion is just the beginning” and get met with “no they don’t just a few crazy ones.”

    If I had a nickel for every time. Man oh man.

  20. 20.

    schrodingers_cat

    There is one demographic that votes majority R nationally. Unless that changes Rs will continue to get worse. They haven’t paid a high enough electoral practice for their shenanigans

    FWIW I don’t think all R voters are bigots but bigotry is not a deal breaker for them.

  23. 23.

    Soprano2

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: I’ve been hearing this all my life, that welfare made it so women don’t need men to survive and that’s bad. They don’t want women to have a choice. Women’s shelters used to be controversial because conservatives thought all they did was encourage wives to leave their husbands.

  29. 29.

    gene108

    @Gvg:

    What if Congress votes on how your minister has to teach and you have to pray, and people go to jail if they do it wrong. That’s why religion was separated from government here. They think they will always be on the winning side, but it won’t work like that.

    I don’t see how they lose a battle of best brand of Christianity for America. Mainline Protestant churches don’t seem to make much noise. The Catholic church is powerful but not united in leadership, between a progressive Pope and reactionary U.S. Bishops.

    I’m not entirely sure how black Protestant churches shake out on issues like abortion and gay marriage. Black churches can make themselves heard in their communities.

  30. 30.

    Mike in NC

    @Gvg:  I hate to say it, but home schooling is going to have to be addressed.

    The only people I ever met who approved of home schooling didn’t want their kid(s) being exposed to the wrong color or religion.

  31. 31.

    Suzanne

    @Michael Bersin:

    Should someone tell them, or should we let them find out on their own when it’s too late? 

    Heh heh.
    Lots of Catholics are in denial about this. I vote for FAFO!

  32. 32.

    Another Scott

    Relatedly, … TheHill.com:

    The largest Christian university in the U.S. is facing a record-setting fine from the Department of Education for allegedly deceiving thousands of students about the cost of its doctoral programs.

    The department announced Tuesday it is fining Grand Canyon University $37.7 million, accusing it of lying to more than 7,500 former and current students about the price of the programs and saying 98 percent of students in them pay more than what is advertised.

    The Federal Student Aid (FSA) office found the alleged deception went back to 2017, with the school telling students the programs cost between $40,000 and $49,000. Data from the school showed 78 percent paid $10,000 to $12,000 more, according to the department.

    “GCU lied about the cost of its doctoral programs to attract students to enroll,” said FSA Chief Operating Officer Richard Cordray. “FSA takes its oversight responsibilities seriously. GCU’s lies harmed students, broke their trust, and led to unexpectedly high levels of student debt. Today, we are holding GCU accountable for its actions, protecting students and taxpayers, and upholding the integrity of the federal student aid programs.”

    […]

    (Emphasis added.)

    All this lying made me go down the rabbit hole of the 10 Commandments. Turns out, “Thou shall not steal” originally meant a prohibition on stealing a person – kidnapping. “Thou shall not bear false witness” was about prohibiting false testimony in a trial – especially a capital trial.

    So, since the 10 Commandments don’t forbid lying and cheating suckers people who aren’t your neighbor, these Good Christians™ were obviously doing nothing wrong.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  33. 33.

    BruceFromOhio

    Kos’ “American Taliban” spelled it out over a decade ago. And here we are.

    So, what do you do when people who won’t change their minds no matter what are in positions of power and authority, are guided by a narrow and sometimes incomprehensible doctrine, and reflexively distrust or attack anyone and anything that does not align with said doctrine?

    Vote them out! Yes, so long as the norms and rules of democracy are recognized. Unfortunately, that ship sailed 1/6/2021, as demonstrated daily by the current Preacher of the House, as well as various state Legislatures (e.g. Ohio)

    … what else?

  34. 34.

    Geminid

    @Ohio Mom: Sorry. I follow Republican party politics, same as Democratic party politics. I guess I should have said, “interesting to me.” But open-seat primaries do show a lot about voters, I think, and that is why they interest me.

  35. 35.

    Matt McIrvin

    @gene108:

    I don’t see how they lose a battle of best brand of Christianity for America.

    The traditional mechanism is by turning on one another, over minute theological differences that are hard for us to even understand.

  36. 36.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @BruceFromOhio:

    Vote them out! Yes, so long as the norms and rules of democracy are recognized. Unfortunately, that ship sailed 1/6/2021, as demonstrated daily by the current Preacher of the House, as well as various state Legislatures (e.g. Ohio)

    … what else?

    This is a pretty doomy comment, isn’t it?

  37. 37.

    Ohio Mom

    @Mike in NC: The home schoolers I’ve known are anti-establishment counterculture types. And special needs parents whose kids were being bullied by teachers and kids.

    That’s a reflection of the circles I travel in, I don’t cross paths with the other type of home schooler.

  38. 38.

    Anotherlurker

    Since I have been informed that every post on Baloon Juice is an open thread, here is a wonderful pallet cleanser.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7-PfzpQcJs

    In my humble opinion, this is one of the best songs about dogs.  It made me smile.

    Warning:  you may also experience the feeling of chopping onions.

  40. 40.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @TeezySkeezy:

    The mainstream is “waking up?” You think so? Maybe some.

    What makes you think otherwise? Plenty of evidence people are waking up, such as the special election wins this year, the August 7th Ohio Issue 1 vote, the Great Red Trickle of ’22 when the GOP should’ve wiped the floor given inflation and historic results etc

  41. 41.

    Almost Retired

    @Suzanne:  yes yes a thousand times yes.   That’s what’s up next.  It’s not birth control (well yes, but not quite as directly targeted yet), it’s no fault divorce.   I can’t think of anything that empowers married women more than this (other than community property in conjunction with no fault divorce).  Covenant marriages are contracts of servitude.

  43. 43.

    Old School

    Hi all, this is Ady’s wife, Rachael. I’m devastated to share the news that Ady has died from complications of ALS. You probably knew Ady as a healthcare activist. But more importantly he was a wonderful dad and my life partner for 18 years. [1/4] pic.twitter.com/KZ8k73Gujp— Ady Barkan (@AdyBarkan) November 2, 2023

  45. 45.

    patrick II

    What galls me the most is that if you dare to say anything about the Christian motives behind their intemperate political actions, their response is “How dare you attack someone’s religion!”
    Justice Alito’s conservative Catholic religion is an example that has come up recently after the Dobbs decision. The response is: How dare you attack someone for his Catholicism? I would say it is because it is why he is on the court in the first place. And also because it is a decision that takes away the right of a woman to control her own body because he believes it is immoral, but cannot say that out loud. He can’t say his reason is the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, although he believes that as all good conservative Catholics do. So instead he writes 98 pages of gibberish because his real reason cannot be a decision that is not based on law or precedent.
    Of course, you cannot argue about his real reason, because because it is tough to have logical arguments that contradict gibberish. Nor can you have arguments about his real reasons because he hides those behind a facade of pseudo-legal rambling.

  49. 49.

    brendancalling

    @Josie: Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Saddam Hussein’s Sunni minority  rule over a Shi’ite majority? Same with Assad in Syria—Alawites are like 15% of the population ruling over a Sunni majority.

    It can totally happen here.

  51. 51.

    mrmoshpotato

    D’Backs got TOTALLY SLAPPED!

    And it TOTALLY SLAPS!

     

    Also, the GOP should be slapped into the Sun.

  62. 62.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Leto:

    yet we currently have minority rule via the Constitution.

    The Republicans have a very tenuous majority in the US House and will likely lose it next year, if we’re not complacent. Dems control the executive branch as well as the Senate. Biden has made significant progress filling judicial appointments in the past few years

  64. 64.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I think people have and are continuing to wake up, based on recent election results. They know what the GOP is and are voting accordingly

  66. 66.

    mattH

    They are all double high authoritarians, true believers intent on imposing their hierarchy on the country. Bob Altemeyer had them pegged in 2006.

  68. 68.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I think people have and are continuing to wake up, based on recent election results 

    I hope you’re right, and I hope everyone realizes the Christofascists need to be shitslapped at every turn.

  70. 70.

    BellyCat

    The results of the Rovember 2024 election will be telling. Any speculation (or poll, or guesses pulled out of one’s ass) before then is essentially worthless.

    In the meantime, GOTV among Urban youth and minority (especially Black) communities.

  72. 72.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @BruceFromOhio:

    The practical, pragmatic solution, is voting them out. Same as it always has been. You can’t ignore the progress that has been made this year and in the last against the GOP

  73. 73.

    Geminid

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Actually, President Obama sent military missions to Iraq northeastern Syria and to help combat ISIS, and they are still there. And we have a separate force of advisors based near Erbil, capitol of the Kurdish Regional Government that runs the northern three provinces of Iraq. I think these missions run in the mid to high hundreds at each location.

    The force in northeast Syria supports the “Syrian Democratic Forces,” the larger part of which are the Kurdish YPG militia. Turkiye has been bombing YPG facilities and troops for weeks now, and three weeks ago the US had to shoot down a Turkish drone that had gotten too close to American troops.

    Besides Turkish drones, American troops have to keep their eyes on Syrian government forces and their Russian allies, plus Iran-backed militias that also operate nearby. And some of the Arabs in the SDF are fighting with the Kurds they’re supposed to be allied with.

    Meanwhile the Iranian backed militias are firing drones at US soldiers in both Syria and Iraq. Those guys have a really tough job.

  76. 76.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Steeplejack:

    You’re welcome. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried on some level, though. People like Mike Johnson both piss me off and scare me. I fear for vulnerable people, but I also fear that something catastrophic could happen with them in charge; like collapse of civilization as we know it bad.

    I’m also scared for selfish reasons because I don’t know how far they will go. I may be a white guy, but I’m not rich and I’m ace, or asexual, more specifically a heteroromatic demisexual (I think, it’s complicated). Conservatives already hate single, childfree/childless, unmarried women; they’ve made clear they despise even childfree/childless couples. Musk has said that childfree/childless people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, for example

    I could envision a world where people like me who aren’t necessarily interested in children/relationships are overtly discriminated against only ultra-religious can do. It doesn’t help I’m an atheist, either.

    I know I’m not first or even tenth on the list of targets of these people, but I believe I’ll get my turn eventually if they win. Or maybe there will be a nuclear war before then, I don’t know. So, I do what I can and try to keep hope as well as perspective

    I’m positive and optimistic because I kind of have to be. Freaking out in the comments here was getting old and bothering people. It was also distressing for myself. The final straw for myself was a commenter here I like and admire very much literally saying they thought I was a troll. I sat in my car and cried for literally 10 minutes after reading that. So, I take breaks from the news, I focus on self-care, and I try to be more self-conscious with what I comment and how I come across

  77. 77.

    Martin

    @dmsilev: No, they’re coming for much more than that.

    That’s their list when they have some meaningful hope of winning elections. Their real list is changing the conditions so they can get and hold power. That requires getting rid of elections, getting a meaningful part of the population to no longer be eligible to vote, or violence sufficient to tip the electoral vote in their favor.

    I think Democrats are way too optimistic here. They’re overlooking just how fundamentally the conditions for them getting power have changed. They aren’t backing Trump because they think he can win in 2024, they’re backing Trump because they think he will seize power even if he doesn’t win.

  78. 78.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Martin:

    I think Democrats are way too optimistic here.

    What does “here” mean?

    ETA: A bunch of the January 6er peons have gone to prison. That’s a clear signal that Trump does not have their back and left them out to dry; he could’ve issued a blanket pardon but didn’t before leaving on 1/20/21. Nobody rioted when Mar a Largo was searched, Trump was arrested, etc

  83. 83.

    danielx

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    The practical, pragmatic solution, is voting them out.

    Well, yeah. That’s why this whole “elections” business is getting to be a bore with them. Too many people aren’t buying what they’re selling, so they end up getting their asses handed to them in any elections resembling free and fair. Democracy won’t give them what they want, so fuck free and fair elections and fuck democracy too.​
     
    @Martin: ​
      Beat me to it.

  84. 84.

    Lyrebird

    @Mike in NC: Uh… I know a lot of commenters agree with you, I  fled the Anne Laurie thread on homeschooling.  But what if you lived in Fl and happen to be raising kids, and maybe you’re not white, or maybe one of your kids might be LGBT, …please don’t rush to take away homeschooling because some people who use it are close minded.

     

    I have taught quite a few students from public schools that pushed just as close minded an agenda as what’s beeing talked about here.

  85. 85.

    sdhays

    @Suzanne: Speaker Johnson’s wife is quoted as saying she thinks everyone else’s marriage is “marriage lite”. I think she truly believes that.

    Of course, not getting divorced is less impressive when it’s almost impossible. If you need that high a wall to keep you together…maybe your foundation isn’t as strong as you think.

  87. 87.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @danielx:

    I agree with you and that’s why we have to stop them. And if democracy falls, we’ll have to continue fighting them because most Americans don’t want to live in a theocracy

  88. 88.

    Hoppie

    @Mike in NC: We home taught for a year after the principal at Boubon (their misspelling, which when we pointed it out, he defended because the kids responsible “were so proud of their work”) High School wouldn’t give permission for our son to miss classes when we were travelling on business.

    After one year, we enrolled him in his grandmother’s district.

    I taught him French and math.  Ms. Hoppie taught him history and literature.  (He is now a six-figure plus programmer and impressed his wife with his French in Paris.)

    Very occasionally, home teaching can have value.

  89. 89.

    wjca

    @ETtheLibrarian: As Americans have become less religious is precisely why the christofacists have gotten much louder.

    I wonder if causality isn’t at least partially the other way around: the christfascists getting louder has push some Americans away from religion in general.  Or perhaps there’s a positive feedback loop happening.

  91. 91.

    Citizen Alan

    @sdhays:  I desperately want to see “Serena Joy” Johnson’s reaction if it ever comes out that Mullah Johnson has been banging an intern on the side. Bonus points if it’s a male intern.

  92. 92.

    hotshoe

    @Ohio Mom: ​

    The home schoolers I’ve known are anti-establishment counterculture types. And special needs parents whose kids were being bullied by teachers and kids.

    Yes, my experience too.
    Younger boy was constantly in trouble in first and second grades; I got called sometimes more than once a week to principal’s office to pick him up and “discuss” the problems. Nothing the school agreed to try for an education plan was helping. He was so bright, such a good reader, he didn’t need school if it were just going to be a place for him to be bullied by teachers.
    I don’t want to be retroactively too dramatic, but I don’t think anyone in our family would have stayed sane if we tried to stay within traditional public schooling.
    We had a grand success of homeschooling for about three and a half years. Guitar lessons, Spanish, Shakespeare, and of course all the library books we could carry :) Our actual educational support came from the liberal big city, next county over, which provided the state textbooks for grade level, administered year’s STAR tests.
    Then my sister persuaded the family that he needed to go back to school so he could socialize with peers. Might have been partly my fault, since we didn’t hang out with other homeschool families in our backwards town, so it’s true we were pretty isolated.
    I have no regrets about the years homeschooling. I worry that other families — the concerned counterculture types — might be denied a chance to homeschool because of abuse of the programs by creepy brainwash-their-kids christians.
    I dunno what’s the best answer for society while still respecting the needs of individuals.

  93. 93.

    lowtechcyclist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There is one demographic that votes majority R nationally. Unless that changes Rs will continue to get worse.

    So you’re saying that until Republicans can’t even get a majority of white people, things will get worse?

  94. 94.

    lowtechcyclist

    @hotshoe:

    I dunno what’s the best answer for society while still respecting the needs of individuals.

    Require homeschooled kids (and kids in private schools, charter schools, whatever) to pass the same tests that public school kids have to pass. (While proctored by public school teachers or administrators, just to keep parents from rigging the game.)

    If they flunk the tests, give ’em a make-up try, maybe giving the parents a couple months to teach their kids what they didn’t learn the first time.  And if they fail again, then back into public school they go.

    The notion that home-schooled kids are exempted from all academic standards (not true in every state, but true in a lot of them) is just freakin’ crazy.  When the Rapture doesn’t come, as it consistently doesn’t, where does that leave those kids when they grow up?

  96. 96.

    Chris Johnson

    @BellyCat: Did anyone notify Eversor that Cole lit the BatSignal?

    The thing is, if that poster was actually a working troll here to get Americans to passionately fight each other to the point of civil war seeming really plausible, then that shtick only works if people are legitimately opposed to it and defensive.

    If the shenanigans of the new House speaker and his ilk poison the well so badly that it’s impossible to be defensive anymore, eversor no longer works and whoever it is has to come up with ‘alwaysmad’ or something, and pick a different divisive topic. It has to be something where you can get people upset and defensive, and nobody is in the mood to defend Mike Johnson and where he wants to take our country.

  98. 98.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Chris Johnson: I think they’re a person who was hurt badly by right-wing Christianists and has a theory of what happened that catches whole classes of uninvolved people.

    I get it, to some degree. I grew up closely observing those people though the religion stuff wasn’t specifically the cause of most of my trouble as a kid. Peer-on-peer violence was, and it probably colors a lot of my doomy thinking about violence–in some corner of my head everything is a projection of a junior-high-school bully who knows the rules don’t matter if he gets just enough cover to punch you in the gut again. Only now, he has a gun. Anyway, that’s probably how the concept of God is to that commenter.

  99. 99.

    JeanneT

    @lowtechcyclist: The three reasons I wanted to home school my kiddo back in the day were the Christian influences in the public schools, their focus on teaching to the tests, and not wanting my son to be tied to a chair 6 hours a day.  We ended up sending him to a Montessori school.  Now my grand kid is in a public Montessori school, where I assume he will have to take the public school tests eventually.  It’ll be interesting to see how that works out.

  100. 100.

    gvg

    @BellyCat: This is exactly why I brought up the 30 years war and all the others. It’s also why the founders put in separation of church and state. They were the more recent descendants of refugees from those wars and knew more than we are remembering or are taught about why it is bad for sincere religious people for a government to have any say in belief.

    These kooks don’t realize they are setting up a situation where they could be kicked out of America as an actual persecuted hated minority. After they made us hate them enough of course, which they seem likely to do, and a minority because they think it is evil to compromise with anyone (except really rich sociopaths I guess, but they don’t have enough votes)

  101. 101.

    gvg

    @Hoppie: They need valid tests. My religious fruitcake cousin found a way to game the system. She had her kids meet Florida’s rules (which wasn’t her home state) and involved a compliant Psychologist stating they were meeting intellectual goals, not any actual subject tests. Her kids faced significant challenges when they were of age. It would have been worse, but she eventually found a social church group where the families helped teach each other’s kids, and her kids mostly caught up. Luckily, she liked socializing in that environment.  She hated school herself and resisted learning. It made her a poor teacher but a determined homeschool mom.

    I was a foster mom and exposed to a lot of foster care news for years. There is a subset of people who get away with abusing children by keeping them isolated. Homeschooling can be a tool to enable that. Which is why there needs to be something in place where other people see the children on a regular basis.

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    @Soprano2:

    But it didn’t used to be comfortable for them all the time. You go back to the 50s and these people (or their parents) would have been bitching about something. Gays and Commies and Uppity folks, most likely. Same stuff they bitch about today, actually.

    These people were never comfortable. They’ve been bullshitted (often by themselves, but that’s another thing altogether) into thinking they were.

     

    Listen to anyone my age. So many want to go back to the good ol’ 80s. Of course they do: they were fuckin’ 12. Of course life was better then – they didn’t have to live it. Life’s pretty grand when you ain’t worried about how to hold it down.

    Same deal here.

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    @Michael Bersin:

    Telling them won’t matter, and by the time they find out on their own the rest of us will be dead, or in the camps waiting to die.

    So I vote neither.

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    @sdhays:

    That reminds me of something David Gerrold once wrote:

    All insults are basic. They’re just some variation on “my orgasm is better than your orgasm.”

    What a bunch of fucking tools, is what I’m saying.

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    Paul in KY

    @Kent: You should gig them on that all the time. Mention all this New Testament touchy feely hippy stuff. They are supposed to believe it.

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    BellyCat

    Several years ago, I spent five months living on the road out west, experiencing the full-time “live/work” RV culture. Fascinating!

    Many of them had children and we’re homeschooling. There was a curious blend of counterculture and religious devotees doing this, and I was surprised to find how well they coexisted, and the fact that the children were remarkably well socialized, because they dealt with people of ALL ages every day, all day long.

    Among many preconceptions reconsidered was the possibility that school systems now, unlike one room schools of yore, involve ONE age only in classrooms. While this is perhaps a necessity educationally, one of the insidious byproducts is that it sets people up to perceive life (and power) in a highly vertical structure, and that is likely not in their, or anyone else’s, best long-term interests — except for Authoritarians.

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