Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Republicans do not trust women.

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

In my day, never was longer.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

Come on, man.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

“Alexa, change the president.”

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?

When we show up, we win.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

You are here: Home / Nature & Respite / Something Good Open Thread / TGIFriday Evening Open Thread: Native American Heritage Day

TGIFriday Evening Open Thread: Native American Heritage Day

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  1. 1.

    satby

    Lots of good stuff here! I was hoping we’d have a post about Native American Heritage Day. Thanks AL!

    *and play that DOT clip just to hear the one undersecretary speak Navaho!

  4. 4.

    teezyskeezy

    Sort of on topic, a good book for kids about indigenous life in the 1800s around the Great Lakes is the Birchbark series by Louise Erdrich. Daughter just read the first book for school. The tragedy of smallpox is a major part of the story.

  5. 5.

    sab

    @satby:

    @Baud:

    You two deserve each other, and I don’t mean that as a bad thing.

    Says I slinkimg in after a tantrum when Watergirl somehow fixed whatever blocked me seeing the blog.

  6. 6.

    frosty

    Copying this from an earlier Thanksgiving thread. Except for bread and pie crust, these are the foods we eat that are all from North America:

    Turkey
    Cranberries
    Squash
    Cornbread
    Potatoes
    Green beans
    Sweet potatoes
    Pecans
    Pumpkins

  7. 7.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Given that the Framers were informed by Native American political concepts, it’s important to acknowledge all their contributions to the rich tapestry of America. To include all the land.

  8. 8.

    frosty

    @sab: ​No sweat, slink away. We’ve all been there or we’ll be joining you sometime!

    ETA, like, here’s mine. Why are some of my comments visual and some text? Why, when I hit edit, do they go to one or the other? (WG, don’t worry about it, I’ll deal.)

  10. 10.

    Alison Rose

    I really appreciate how each year there is more and more recognition given to Native tribes and their contributions and history. I don’t know if we’ll ever be able to fully repair the harms done to them, but that doesn’t mean the efforts are not worth making.

    Also, you can go here and put in your address to find out which tribes’ land you live on. For me, it’s Graton Rancheria and Southern Pomo.

  11. 11.

    Geminid

    I was glad to see the Native Transportation Department officials talk up the benefits of the Infrastructure bill for Native people. That is a very underrated piece of legislation, I think. Hopefully, tribal members will benefit from the construction jobs as well as the improvements to their roads and water systems.

  14. 14.

    NotMax

    Just shy of three hours spent going through both my saved in a text file possibles and new deals on Amazon to see if any are on special for Black Friday. Success with nearly a dozen items whose prices made me more comfortable than when previously viewed.

    Pledged to myself to in no case exceed a total of $150 (about double my usual widely spaced shopping bills there). Checkout total came to $149.99.
    ;)

  16. 16.

    rivers

    I had a lovely experience today at the Museum of the American Indian in Manhattan. A singing group composed of sisters and daughters from the Mohawk Nation of Akwesasne performed and led us in dances – there we were, a bunch of strangers holding hands and forming a circle. It felt so restorative amid so much chaos and violence in the news.

  18. 18.

    BeautifulPlumage

    @Alison Rose: once again you state what I was thinking but couldn’t put so clearly.

    @satby: thanks for the link.

    @Baud: I think of Indigenous Peoples Day as bringing attention to all cultures that were colonized and destroyed in the Americas and beyond. Today is for Americans to consider our specific history in relation to the original indigenous peoples who lived here

  19. 19.

    H.E.Wolf

    I was delighted to hear the Four Directions co-founder, OJ, talk about US Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland’s longtime support of their work: “We call her ‘Auntie Deb’.”

    From their website:
    New Mexico Congresswoman Deb Haaland talks about the Native vote: its growing political impact and the importance of continuing that momenttum in the upcoming Georgia Senate runoff election. Recorded December 14, 2020.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQneRaFvWSo

  20. 20.

    sab

    @frosty: Normally I make gravy from the turkey pnan. This year I was too lazy (a planned four person meal with leftover turned into an unplanned ten person meal, with not much left here.) We all missed my gravy.

    The gravy bottle had a turkey leftover casserole suggestion. I saw it and howled with laughter. Showed it to my husband, and he said “That looks good.  Let’s try it.”  Leftover turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, all in a casserole then heated. So that will be dinner tonight.

  22. 22.

    Jay

    @Alison Rose:

    for about a decade now, it has become common here, to make “Land Aknowledgement’s” here in speeches, broadcast, etc.

    So, here I am, writing from the Unceded Territory of the kʷikʷəƛ̓əm First Nation

    We say “unceded”, because when BC was a Crown Colony, the Government was too cheap and bag assed lazy to write treaties with most of the First Nations in BC.

    The BNA Act required that for First Nations to cede rights, (hunting, fishing, gathering, trade, travel, land, etc) treaties had to be written, signed and paid for, so technically, the kʷikʷəƛ̓əm First Nation still owns the land that my 25 story apartment complex sits on, the Safeway sits on, the Mall sits on and all the trout, salmon and crayfish in Stoney Creek.

  23. 23.

    moonbat

    There’s a very good article by Jack Weatherford about how big a debt our nation’s representative form of government owes to the Iroquois League’s governmental structure called “The Founding Indian Fathers”. Benjamin Franklin studied the Iroquois system closely and borrowed from it freely (except for the part about giving women the vote, naturally). The word “caucus” is even borrowed from them.​

  24. 24.

    Gin & Tonic

    I’ll use this thread as an opportunity to strongly recommend Indigenous Continent by Pekka Hämäläinen. Lots of history you didn’t learn in school.

  26. 26.

    Grumpy Old Railroader

    Can’t find the link but recently saw a Gary Larson cartoon.

    2 Indians on horseback watching a wagon train approach. One says to the other “Just great. Here comes another migrant caravan.”

  27. 27.

    sab

    I have seen articles that 30% of Americns think, mostly wrongly, that they have native American ancestry.

    That’s us. But Canadian. A diligent search, and they turned out to be French-speakng Swiss Protestants. Not what we were expecting, but much more like who we are.

    And not far from my husband’s Swiss Protestants that never went near Canada, and came directly to Ohio.

  28. 28.

    Dan B

    @japa21: I can hear TIFG now.

    The savage racists are celebrating the most stupid and wrong things.  We Americans civilized them to our beautiful ways and great culture.  Try again next year!

  29. 29.

    Alison Rose

    @Jay: Yes, a lot of people and groups do that here now, too. I think it’s important. Of course, racist assholes are like OH WHAT SHOULD ALL THE NON-NATIVE PEOPLE JUST LEAVE OR SOMETHING and like…well, yeah Sparky, YOU should, but no, that’s not what it means. It’s simply about recognizing whose land this would be if white bastards never showed up and stole it.

  30. 30.

    Dan B

    @Alison Rose: Interesting, I thought we were on Duwamish land since we’re only a mile and a half from the river but we seem to be on Muckleshoot land, most of which is 20 miles south of here.

  31. 31.

    Grumpy Old Railroader

    @Alison Rose: For me, it’s Graton Rancheria and Southern Pomo.

    Greetings neighbor. For me it is Nisenan of Auburn Rancheria and a couple of stone’s throw from their Casino where they get payback from descendents of colonizers

  32. 32.

    Nukular Biskits

    Somewhat related:

    For probably over 50 years (if not at least all the ones I’ve been on this earth), my mother and one of my aunts insisted that they both were of Native American ancestry.  It was somewhat plausible, given they both had jet black hair, somewhat dark complexions, brown eyes, etc.

    Then, several years ago, my sister got each of them a “23 and Me” DNA test.

    The results?  Neither my mother or my aunt were of Native American ancestry, a conclusion that neither of them would accept.

  33. 33.

    gwangung

    @Jay: For me and mind, land acknowledgements are an interesting thing. First, done so often, it becomes rote, and, thus, meaningless. It is a self-imposed challenge to keep them fresh and something to be worthy of. And second, being from a people that themselves have faced oppression and colonization, it then becomes a task to acknowledge that and to try and chart a relationship between our peoples.

  34. 34.

    RevRick

    @Gin & Tonic: Last Christmas, my daughter gave me An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. I started to read it but stopped, because I couldn’t stand the horror story of violence by armed white gangs directed against Indigenous Americans to which the government turned a blind eye.

  36. 36.

    gwangung

    @sab: And that leaves into the problem of “preten-Indians”, where some people claim indigenous blood in order to exploit resources set aside for native people’s purposes. Whether or not they actually have blood quantum is irrelevant; what matters is their relationship to the established (recognized and non-recognized) nations….and often times there is none….

  37. 37.

    RevRick

    @frosty: We live on Lenni-Lenape land, and our church made a land acknowledgment. We live about two miles from the Museum of Indian Culture (www.museumofindianculture.org)

  38. 38.

    Anne Laurie

    @rivers: I had a lovely experience today at the Museum of the American Indian in Manhattan.

    Some of my fondest childhood memories are of that museum!  I still have a tiny abstract wooden ‘Cherokee’ bear from the gift shop that I remember as my first ‘real’ more-than-a-dollar purchase with my own money…

    (I suspect my brothers’ favorite exhibits, two full preserved ‘shrunken people’ — one a supposed Spaniard with an enormous full white mustache — are no longer on public display, though.)

  39. 39.

    Alison Rose

    @Grumpy Old Railroader: *waves hello* Yeah, there are a few casinos near me, too. A lot of people were opposed to them, but I was like, fuck that, if a bunch of non-Native folks wanna go dump the contents of their wallets out on the floor, I think the tribes deserve every penny. I hate gambling but I did go to a tribal casino down in San Diego once, and I felt like losing a handful of tries on the slot machine was my tiny way of offering reparations.

  40. 40.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Nukular Biskits: My maternal grandfather told me that he believed there was some Indigenous ancestry, perhaps an Indigenous wife somewhere back in the 18th/early 19th Century.  Supposedly his (and my) easy ability to tan could be attributed to that.  I’ve never had a DNA test, but given the part of the country my paternal grandfather’s ancestors hailed from (eastern PA) it’s not impossible.

  41. 41.

    Alison Rose

    @RevRick: Important to note with that book that the author’s claims of Native ancestry have been called into question many times, and AFAIK most Native folks see her as a fraud. Obviously I don’t know anything for certain other than what I’ve read, but just some info to have.

  42. 42.

    dexwood

    48 years ago, this now old white guy who grew up in Baltimore knowing no more about Native Americans than what I saw in movies and on TV, met a young woman in New Mexico. She was a member of a Pueblo tribe, though, I didn’t know that at first. Man, did I learn a thing or ten over the years. I was so nervous the first time she took me to meet her grandparents, her large family on Feast Day. I worried for nothing, was welcomed with hugs and killer red chile stew. We are still happily married all these years later. Deb Haaland is her distant cousin.

  43. 43.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I was contracted (long story) to ghost write a horror novel once, and only after I’d agreed was I informed the main character would be a Native American from another book.  I was not happy.  I was going “Oh god, I don’t want to be offensive!” and studied everything about the Cherokee and especially their religion that I could get my hands on.

    In the process, I ran into one of the coolest folklore tidbits I’ve ever encountered.  When invoking a guardian spirit, the Cherokee did not call a beneficent or healing spirit.  No, when you wanted a supernatural bodyguard, you called the meanest motherfucker you can find, because he knows how to kick ass for you.  I loved that.

  44. 44.

    dexwood

    @Alison Rose: I took one of her classes at UNM. She was fierce, a tough grader, smart as hell. Married to Native poet Simon Ortiz. I have never heard that about her. Same thing is now being said about Buffy St. Marie recently.

  45. 45.

    Geminid

    @H.E.Wolf: Success did not come easily for Secretary Haaland. She grew up in a military family and attended 12 diffferent schools before finishing high school in Albuquerque. Haaland worked as a baker before earning a degree from the University of New Mexico at age 34. She became a single mother 4 days after graduating from college.

    Haaland sometimes had a tough time making ends meet, but was able to earn a law degree in 2004, when she was 44 years old. Ms. Haaland then worked in Tribal government and on President Obama’s 2012 campaign. She later served as Nevada State Democratic Chair in 2015-16, and was credited with rebuilding the party and its finances.

    In 2018, Deb Haaland was elected to Congress to replace Rep. Michelle Luhan Grisham, when Ms. Grisham ran for Governor.

    Fun Deb Haaland Facts: Haaland’s mother, Mary Toya, was a member of the Laguna Pueblo. Her father, Major John David Haaland, was a Minnesota Swede. So naturally, his fellow Marine officers nicknamed him “Dutch.”

  46. 46.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I never knew about the story of how my mom and my aunt absolutely refused to accept the results of the DNA ancestry test until after both of them passed a couple of years ago.

    Me and my aunt’s second oldest son were sitting around in the front yard of Momma’s house, drinking beer, swapping stories.  He told me about and it was laughing the entire time.  I asked my sister about it and she confirmed it.

    Had I only known … LOL!

  47. 47.

    sab

    Husband urping again because he got the lifetime unpleasant antobiotic out of sinc with his meals.

    This is the rest of his life, fightng with the unpleasant antibiotic that is keeping him alive. Mrsa, funnist way to have a virus kill you.

  49. 49.

    sab

    @gwangung: We were completelty sincere, and yet not much invested, because we had our own culture. So kind of sad but not shocked, because we did have our own culture and hadn’t ever felt that was ours.

    My older sister’s husband is Chinese. Whole different ball game on being invested in a culture Her kids are absolutely both cultures.

  51. 51.

    RevRick

    @sab: Public health scientists are absolutely terrified about the possibility of coming to a time when there are no more effective antibiotics, because bacteria has become resistant to all of them. Before antibiotics, a seemingly innocent scratch could lead to a fatal infection.

  52. 52.

    Steeplejack

    @NotMax:

    So what did you snag?

    I didn’t get anything. Not opposed, just didn’t want or need anything in particular and didn’t get caught up in the hype.

  53. 53.

    Hoppie

    @Alison Rose:  Down here in San Diego we have the most recognized tribes of any county in the country.

    Also, the largest number of breweries.

    And independent farms.

    Tells you a lot about the place….

  54. 54.

    Mike in NC

    No doubt at his hate rallies Fat Bastard bellowed that Indigenous People should “go back to where they came from”!

  55. 55.

    frosty

    @Nukular Biskits: ​ @Villago Delenda Est: ​ My maternal grandmother is from a family who settled Mississippi because North Carolina was too crowded. I have a picture of her mother who looks vaguely Native American. The story is when the Bonds settled Mississippi, there were two wives, one Native American, and later, an immigrant white woman. There’s a little discussion of which one the family was descended from.

    Of course, being Mississippi, there’s some preferential ethnicity involved: “Choctaw, we ain’t no Creek.”
    Sheesh. I did the National Geographic DNA test (damn, where did I file the results) and AFAIK I don’t have any Native American ancestry.​​​

  56. 56.

    Alison Rose

    @Hoppie: Haha :)

    I loved San Diego. Used to go down there a lot, first to visit a girlfriend and then after the break-up because I still loved the place and she’d moved to Portland anyway, LOL. It’s a great area.

  57. 57.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: In addition to funding water system amd road improvements, the Infrastructure bill helps Native and other people by funding more Superfund cleanups. One provision in the bill created a revenue stream for cleanups by reviving an excise tax on the sales of over 40 toxic but widely used chemicals. The tax had lapsed for over 25 years before Congress reinstituted it two years ago, in the Infrastructure bill. The reinvigorated Superfund program has made possible long-delayed cleanups at many sites on or adjacent to tribal lands.

  58. 58.

    dexwood

    @Mike in NC: Hate the lying traitor. Everyday I hope for a clogged cheeseburger to do dog’s work. Way back in history, tho, there is a geographic origin.

  59. 59.

    sab

    @RevRick: I got a stupid bug bite that briefly blew up. Settled down two days later.

    I have problems with amoxicilin. Swell up and get rashes. Possibly allergic.

    So the urgent care doctor wanted to give me, profolactively, the last possible antibiotic that works against my husband’s MRSA. She didn’t even think I needed it. And if it was unpleasant (which it it is) I would have quit midcourse. So probably more growing anti-resistant bugs.

    Doctors aren’t even on our side with antibiotics.

  60. 60.

    gwangung

    @Jay: Well, you know it’s just a start, and I know it’s just a start, but a lot of native folks are afraid (with good reason) that too many people will take it as an end to itself. Every time I use one I tend to tackle the problem anew, and take the issue further down the road (at least couple it with some tangible step).

     

    @sab: Oh, yeah different….not the least of which is that I bet he’s an active participant in the culture, so it’s the opposite of exploitative.

  62. 62.

    JoyceH

    I’ve been watching the Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow town hall. I don’t watch Chris Hayes with regularity so what struck me was that he’s really gained a lot of weight. Shallow of me to notice I guess, but I can’t help thinking that a female anchor would have been called out by the bosses if she’d gained significantly less.

  63. 63.

    frosty

    @Nukular Biskits: ​Stone County, near Wiggens. The line I remember is “Shake a tree and a Bond falls out.” My grandma went to Chicago when she met and married my grandpa, same time as the Great Migration.​

  64. 64.

    Jay

    @gwangung:

    @Jay: Well, you know it’s just a start, and I know it’s just a start, but a lot of native folks are afraid (with good reason) that too many people will take it as an end to itself. Every time I use one I tend to tackle the problem anew, and take the issue further down the road (at least couple it with some tangible step).

    Bit by bit, Court Case by Court Case, some of the land and rights are going back.

    In Canada, it’s not monolithic. There is a huge array of Treaties, no treaties and Tribal Governance.

  65. 65.

    Almost Retired

    Great thread. For reasons too complicated (or boring) to explain here, I have had to spend a fair amount of time in Oklahoma this year. And there is some great stuff there on the issue . The new First Americans Museum in OKC is excellent (if a bit flashy). The Cherokee National Museum in Tahlequah was fascinating – it tackled tribal identity and the struggle over whether to accept the descendants of slaves held by Cherokees as members. And the horrifying story of the Trail of Tears. Also we did the tour of the Osage Nations locales from Killers of the Flower Moon. BJ and Four Directions have really elevated my interest and understanding of Native issues.

  66. 66.

    Almost Retired

    @JoyceH:   My wife just said the same the same thing.  Her comment was basically that there’s all sorts of negative commentary when Joy Reid changes her hair, but Hayes went from hunky to chunky (her phrase) and there’s not much pushback.

  67. 67.

    SteveinPHX

    @Alison Rose: Thanks. I bookmarked the link. Out here on the west side of Phoenix, I’m on Hohokam land.

    What little I’ve investigated, the Hohokam were a huge presence in these parts. Now it’s all strip malls & subdivisions.

    The Tohono O’odham were/are an important tribe south & east of Phoenix, going down toward Tucson.

  68. 68.

    Geminid

    @frosty: John Grisham’s novel The Painted House is about a Mississippi family eaking out a living growing cotton. The story ends as the boy narrator and his family drive through Tupelo on their way to Detroit, where the father hopes to find a factory job. A good short novel.

  72. 72.

    smith

    @JoyceH: a female anchor would have been called out by the bosses if she’d gained significantly less.

    Funny, earlier today, apropos of nothing in particular, I was thinking about Christine Craft. For those youngsters here, she was a TV anchor in the 80s who was fired because a focus group determined that she was “too old, too ugly, and not deferential to men.” She sued, won two jury trials, but the wise elders of the Supreme Court decided she didn’t deserve any compensation. Sometimes it feels like we’re just running in place.

  75. 75.

    Matt McIrvin

    Various Native peoples lived around the area where I live, but the names that come up the most seem to be the Agawam and the Pawtucket/Wamesit/Pemacook. All spoke Algonquian languages and it shows in place names around the area. Haverhill’s original name was Pentucket and sometimes I wish that had remained the name because it’s easier to pronounce.

  77. 77.

    wjca

    @RevRick:

    One solution to the problem of bacterial antibiotic immunity: bacteriophages.  These are basically viruses which infect bacteria.  Which means that, like all viruses, they evolve right along with the bacteria.

    One of the top sources of expertise on phages is the Eliava Institute in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia.  They also have a huge library of phages, with data on which bacteria each infects.

  79. 79.

    Ruckus

    I supposedly have some percentage of Native American background, but I cannot remember any of the details – I was told this as a child and that is more than a few days decades ago. And there isn’t anyone left to tell me the details and I have no idea where said details are now located. Oh well such is life.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    What the hell is going on with the website?

    It double posts then won’t let me erase either comment so I’m editing the second one.

  82. 82.

    sab

    @gwangung: I remember vividly when my sister got a grant to go back to China for some study. She went with her husband and new baby and left her three year old behind with both his grandmothers. He was furious and refused to translate. My mom, his American grandmother, spoke no Chinese. His Chinese grandmother spoke fluent Shanghainese and Mandarin, and a couple of phrases of English.

    I was living back at home with my parents going to accounting grad school. I spoke no Chinese at all. It was a weird time for all of us. The angry toddler did like my dogs and they liked him.

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