Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Bark louder, little dog.

We will not go back.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Petty moves from a petty man.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / The Republican Debate

The Republican Debate

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My mother texted me in a huff last night:

The Republican Debate

I didn’t even know there was a debate, let alone making plans to watch it. My god, why?

And then I started to think about it- up until about 5 years ago, I would have been glued to my seat watching. Now, I just can’t. I can not hear the same bad arguments and the same lies and the rest of the bullshit.

Reader Interactions

183Comments

  2. 2.

    Ejoiner

    Right there with you – in a weird way I’m much more tuned out to politics right now than ever before…the details don’t matter at this point, you either vote for the Democratic party and our constitutional government or for the Republicans for a fascist kleptocracy. That’s it.

  3. 3.

    MagdaInBlack

    I’m with you John. It’s becoming more and more difficult to read what they’re up to. I still do because you need to know whats coming, but it ain’t helping my depression.

  5. 5.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Is that the Cartoon Network?

    This ain’t the South Park days, Fuckhead.  Cartoons are mostly liberal as Hell.  You want to go see your nonbinary, gay, bi, culturally diverse characters and female protagonists?  Preaching tolerance and generosity and saying “Fuck you, fascists”?  Go watch cartoons.

    Mind you, the executives running the networks are clueless dipshit conservatives, so maybe you’re onto something after all.

  7. 7.

    sdhays

    @Frankensteinbeck: South Park can be pretty problematic, but credit where it’s due – they were pretty direct about support for gay people back in the 90’s when it was fairly radical.

  8. 8.

    Another Scott

    Speaking of dumpster fires floating down a flooded street, … AlJazeera has some more details on recent events in Siberia:

    Details were sketchy, but some facts have emerged.

    A freight train caught fire in the 15km-long (9.3-mile) Severomuysky Tunnel in the Republic of Buryatia on the night of November 29, the East Siberian Transport Prosecutor’s office reported.

    Ukrainian media cited intelligence sources as saying four explosive devices had been planted on the railway, one of two rail links between Russia and China, reportedly also used for ferrying ammunition.

    “During the movement of the freight train, four explosive devices went off,” the Ukrainian intelligence source was quoted as saying.

    “Now the [Russian Federal Security Service] FSB is working on the spot, railway workers are unsuccessfully trying to minimise the consequences of the SBU special operation,” the source said, referring to the Security Service of Ukraine by its acronym.

    The train in question was believed to be carrying 44 cars of refined fuel. At least three were destroyed. A successful detonation might have disabled the tunnel, and that indeed appeared to be the goal of the saboteurs, who told Ukrainian media the route was “paralysed”.

    On Thursday, the FSB arrested a Belarusian man it said planted the train explosives on behalf of Ukraine’s SBU.

    Calling the incident a “terrorist act”, Moscow said the detained man’s handler was a Lithuania-based Belarusian linked to Ukraine’s secret services.

    Russian media said “the explosion seriously damaged the rails, and the leaked fuel flooded them”.

    Expecting trains to be rerouted through a northern pass of the Baikal-Amur track, the SBU apparently staged a second explosion on a second fuel train as it passed over a bridge in an unspecified location. Four fuel tanks were destroyed and another two were damaged.

    Slava Ukraini!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  9. 9.

    Bugboy

    @Frankensteinbeck:Cartoons are mostly liberal as Hell.

    Reality has a liberal bias, amirite?  GD shame we have to retreat to comedy to process our reality, but ya gotta laugh for crying…

  10. 10.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Agreed.

    But I just heard some great cuts on the Stephanie Miller show, though. Christy called Smarmysmarmy the “biggest blowhard on the planet” and told him to STFU apparently. And Smarmysmarmy basically unleased an Incel attack on the Haley’s “double XX’s”.

    I will say that Christie is definintely the only one willing to tell the R’s that Trump is a criminal and unfit, which is refreshing even coming from a guy like him.

  11. 11.

    Betty Cracker

    It’s pointless because unless Trump chokes to death on a Big Mac, he will be the nominee. I watched the first debate hoping to see DeSantis crash and burn because I hate him so much, and I believed Chris Christie when he said he was going to spend the whole time denouncing Trump and eviscerating his lackeys (which includes DeSantis). But DeSantis was merely unimpressive, not catastrophically bad, and Christie wimped out until last night, from what I hear. So I’m glad I didn’t waste more time on it.

  13. 13.

    CaseyL

    Reminder: Today WaPo staffers are walking out on strike.

    We can support them by not reading WaPo, not going to its website, not clicking on its links/tweets/posts/etc.

  14. 14.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Betty Cracker: DeSantis is getting a lot of practice learning to smile and talk and move like humans do. He could be formidable in eight or twelve years.

  17. 17.

    RaflW

    Saw some comments on Bsky. Sounds like the racism was over the top (even for the GOP). Ramaswamay I guess went full, open ‘great replacement’.

    So yeah, the downward spiral is accelerating.

  19. 19.

    Dangerman

    @Betty Cracker: It’s pointless because unless Trump chokes to death on a Big Mac …

    That would be arguably close to Bingo for me (my card has White Castle; it’s a Harold and Kumar thing).

  24. 24.

    catclub

    @RaflW: Ramaswamay I guess went full, open ‘great replacement’.

     

    Its true! I guess he is the darkie replacing the usual GOP white guys.

  26. 26.

    Trivia Man

    @Betty Cracker: as a recovering Mormon, I was able to explain to people that Book of Mormon did, in fact, accurately describe Mormon beliefs and doctrine. Some of it “unofficial” doctrine because it changes pretty quickly for a TRUTH IS ETERNAL AND NEVER CHANGING organization.

  28. 28.

    Redshift

    I almost never watched debates, even in the old days. They always made me feel anxious, and they never changed my mind, so why subject myself to that?

    I suppose the no-hopers debate might have avoided that, since it would be all rooting for injuries, but the ick factor still wins.

  29. 29.

    Trivia Man

    @Dangerman: my card has “stroke at a rally, on stage”. The choking is likely, but he never eats on camera and has too many lackeys to allow it to happen.

  30. 30.

    geg6

    Well, I did catch a few clips this morning (no way I was going watch that shitshow live).  Vivek is lucky to have gotten out of the room without being beat within an inch of his life by Christie and Haley.  And when Christie went on the attack, he got a few cheers along with the boos.  DeSantis looked like his Intel processor or whatever runs him was wearing out by the minute.  The clips were entertaining, at least.

    But this was totally inconsequential since I do not believe a single person watching is going to reward Christie for finally showing up as himself at one of these.  He might have pulled a few soft Trump voters away if he’d been this way from the start as he promised to do.  But to wait for the last debate to actually do it?  Too late, big guy.

  31. 31.

    Suzanne

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s pointless because unless Trump chokes to death on a Big Mac, he will be the nominee. 

    One can hope!

    I don’t watch these debates anymore. They don’t matter. No one else who matters is watching them, either. They have no influence.

  32. 32.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Trump was a criminal and unfit when Christie supported him. The Republican Party has no principles and ideals to venerate as Liz Cheney does nor do her former colleagues. 

    Here’s hoping we can jettison these two horrible judges of righteousness and character when they are no longer deemed “useful”.

  35. 35.

    Geminid

    This morning’s Politico Playbook tells me that House Republicans plan to continue working for the American people today by debating a motion to condemn President Biden’s student loan relief. Then they hope to pass a resolution censuring Rep. Jamaal Bowman for mistakenly pulling a fire alarm a couple of months ago.

  36. 36.

    RevRick

    John, I gave up on debates long ago, because none of them meets the standards of a high school debate team. Our so-called debates seldom form arguments about issues of substance, but are sound bites and invective hurled about in order to win the “vibes” about the debate. Other than Nixon sweating in the first debate or Ford claiming that there was no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe or Obama telling Romney, “please proceed, governor,” was there anything memorable about any of them?
    Even if you go back 165 years to the Lincoln-Douglas debates, which were multi hour sessions, you will find both candidates tempering their rhetoric to fit the audience, with Douglas going full-on racist in Southern Illinois and Lincoln boldly stating GOP positions in the North, and both mealy-mouthing their stances in the other’s base territory, and waffling in Central Illinois.

  37. 37.

    Suzanne

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    Here’s hoping we can jettison these two horrible judges of righteousness and character when they are no longer deemed “useful”. 

    Thank you. Like, their occasional moments of seeming-bravery are just a craven attempt at self-brand differentiation. They re, at best, momentarily useful assholes.

  38. 38.

    Rusty

    I’ve stopped watching because I can no longer tolerate the disdain for other human beings.  The Republicans routinely advocate for policies that will make other’s lives more difficult, miserable, less free and often outright kill them.  I don’t need to “hear the other side of the story”, I have been around long enough to know that it’s dark and paranoid.

  39. 39.

    teezyskeezy

    @MagdaInBlack: Don’t you know that pessimism is a character flaw and you should feel bad about yourself for it? Anyway, that’s what the optimists tell me.  Or maybe that’s how some people cope with the fragility of their own optimism.  Pie is another way.

    In all seriousness, right there with you. Optimism is a coping mechanism, not always justified, and in many cases is a delusion.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @RevRick: Debates that follow the rules of high school debate would not be any more informative than the current format.  That format is designed to reward fast talking and point scoring.  It’s fun and I was pretty good at it, but it would be next to useless as tool to inform people.

  43. 43.

    TeezySkeezy

    @Rusty: Does anyone anywhere want to hear “bothsides” anymore? Some people still naively suggest “both parties are the problem,” but is anyone actually positive about listening to both parties? You either tune out politics or you have a side. The number of people engaging with both parties with an open mind must be a tiny sliver of the pie.

  44. 44.

    RevRick

    @OzarkHillbilly: As Prof. Karen Ashcraft has pointed out, the Great Replacement Theory is really about sex, and is directed at white women. First, it scolds them for not popping out enough white babies. Second, it seeks to scare them about those icky, dangerous nonwhite men. Third, it shames them for choosing a decent nonwhite guy over a shitty white man.

  48. 48.

    Suzanne

    @RevRick: Yes. Thank you. The overriding fear is that white men are not going to have sexual access to the women they want (that they believe they deserve), and that they will not have white children.

  49. 49.

    Eduardo

    @sdhays:  All their gay characters are lovely and/or very funny: from Big Gay Al, all the iterations of Garrison (gay, trans, trans + lesbian, gay again), Mr Slave, even the gay dog.

    It is a comedy so everything is hyperbolic and there has to be an emphasis on disfunction  but there is so much knowledge about the community that I don’t believe for a sec these guys are bigots.

    Don’t agree on everything like when in the gay marriage episode they seem to be proposing civil unions (butt buddies).

    Also, they asked Gore for forgiveness lol.

  50. 50.

    teezyskeezy

    @Omnes Omnibus: Optimism as a tool is less effective in survival situations has been shown to be less effective than a bit of negativity about the reality of your situation.  Funny that “will to survive” is somewhat independent of positivity.  Partly, the mechanism is knowing that things are probably definitely going to get worse and what you are currently doing probably isn’t enough.

    I don’t know if we are in a situation that stark right now, but maybe.

    And maybe my problem are the fucked up magas and “both parties suck” people I have to deal with in life really giving me reason to doubt the electorate’s judgment right now.

  51. 51.

    RevRick

    @Omnes Omnibus: I hope I didn’t say HS debating is necessarily informative. I’m saying the political debates don’t even match those feeble standards. High school debaters have to stay on topic, at least.

  52. 52.

    schrodingers_cat

    I don’t think I  have ever watched a Republican debate. BTW I did see clips of Chris Christie, giving Avivek a rhetorical wedgie, after he stole his lunch money and drank his milkshake.

    Avivek’s debating style is totally reminiscent of the Sangh debating style bet he was going to Sangh run Sunday School/ summer camp equivalent as a kid.

    His Wikipedia entry is now scrubbed of all mentions of his  caste. It was pretty prominent before.

    Note: Sangh is shorthand for Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the parent organization of India’s RW ruling party BJP.

  53. 53.

    Ohio Mom

    @Dangerman: I don’t think any of us have seen Trump go near a White Castle so you have a losing Bingo Card. Somewhat ironic because the White Castle chain has limited locations but they are found in Trump’s childhood home, Queens.

    On the original post, it looks like Ma and Pa Cole have definitely given up their historical membership in the Republican Party.

  55. 55.

    wjca

    @Just Some Fuckhead: DeSantis is getting a lot of practice learning to smile and talk and move like humans do. He could be formidable in eight or twelve years.

    Assumes facts not in evidence.  Specifically, that he is capable of learning.  After a year of campaigning, he doesn’t appear to have improved significantly.

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @teezyskeezy: The “optimism” that people talk about in that way is a Panglossian best of all possible worlds attitude not a conviction that “we can get through this if we work at it” attitude.  There is nothing wrong with viewing a glass that is 50% full and 50% empty as half full.

  58. 58.

    Suzanne

    @RevRick: I noted on a previous thread (it was in the context of discussing Taylor Swift, but just as an example)….. the dynamic historically has been that men had the power to pick their wives/girlfriends/sexual partners. And that is largely no longer the case…. women now often get to be the one to pick their partner, or to pick no one. And men are feeling how shitty that is.

  59. 59.

    wjca

    @Ohio Mom: Somewhat ironic because the White Castle chain has limited locations but they are found in Trump’s childhood home, Queens.

    Yes, but Trump has always been desperate to put Queens behind him, and be embraced by Manhattan society.  Just one of his epic fails.

  60. 60.

    mrmoshpotato

    I don’t know why your mom would subject herself to any of this assclowning around after 2015-16.

  61. 61.

    RaflW

    @OzarkHillbilly: Can the American right’s definition of ‘whiteness’ expand to include South Asians? The key is to always be a couple of rungs above Black Americans. It’s vile who he (and Haley) will step on to gain power, rather than be in solidarity and find electoral success via working to improve baseline living in this country.

  63. 63.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Ohio Mom: I don’t think any of us have seen Trump go near a White Castle so you have a losing Bingo Card.

    White Castle probably resembles food too much for Dump.

    Remember this is the manbaby who had a bunch of McTrashass’s delivered to the White House.

  64. 64.

    teezyskeezy

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, I’m more like, getting through this is *possible*, but probably isn’t, but if we don’t put in some effort, my last thoughts on losing will be “maybe we coulda won if only…”  So, my motivation to volunteer is that…I don’t want my last thoughts to be regret that I maybe didn’t try enough. That makes me put in more effort, even though it’s probably for not.

    But I think the entire election is  going to hinge on those swing states where  trump is ahead in the polling, and the only hope is that a binary post-primary environment clarifies peoples choices, or somehow the silly “swing voters” can be converted. My fear is that there we are experiencing an unprecedented propaganda coup that has captured enough people both young and old such that whether I knock on a 100 doors or 10,000, or whether I send 10 postcards or 10000, they are like air gun BBs against a bowling ball.

    Maybe not, so we try, right? But I’m psychologically prepared for the other case. In that case, I’m not sure how we ever get things back outside of seeing the propaganda machines silenced in some way. Don’t know how that happens.

  66. 66.

    geg6

    @RevRick: ​
     
    That was a very good podcast, as TPM’s usually are. But I had already figured that out myself based on my own experiences with assholes in the wild.

  67. 67.

    brendancalling

    Apparently Ron DeSantis—a man who wears high heels—said Muslim men wear “man dresses.” Also, too, apparently that’s not the first time he’s said that.

  68. 68.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker:Christie wimped out until last night, from what I hear.

    It’s a shame.  He had a chance to make history in a good way, for once: use his closing remarks to a) announce he’s dropping out, b) throw his support to Haley, and c) clock Vivek.

    (then again, if he clocked Vivek, he’d be so popular he’d have to get back in the race LOL)

  70. 70.

    Jeffro

    @Dangerman: do we know what trumpov’s absolute favorite fast food meal is?  I kind of want to know ahead of time so that I know what to go get when The Best Political News of My Lifetime finally breaks some day (some day soon, please FSM).

    Talk about “let us savor”…mmmmmmmmm!

    ETA: Business Insider says it’s two Big Macs, two Filet-o-Fish, and a chocolate shake.  Ye gods.  I can’t do that to myself, even on such a special occasion…

  71. 71.

    schrodingers_cat

    During the days of the British Empire, Indians could not become members of exclusive British only spaces. There was no pretense of separate being equal either. Locals were treated by the administration like black people were in the South before the Civil Rights movement and segregated from British only spaces except as servants and occasionally as guests.

    So if any South Asians think that they will be considered white they are being delusional.

  72. 72.

    narya

    I watched Nancy on O’Donnell last night (link in previous post), and she was her usual spectacular self. O’Donnell also quoted Cheney at length and had Hutchinson on as well. All of it was more interesting than I expected.

  74. 74.

    StringOnAStick

    @Trivia Man: Given your background, how to you feel about the book Under the Banner of Heaven?  I thought I got a pretty good education on the origin of the LDS and a huge education on how dangerous the fundamentalist LDS is.  Though I’m sure watching The Book of Mormon would be a lot more fun!

  75. 75.

    catclub

    @schrodingers_cat: So if any South Asians think that they will be considered white they are being delusional.

     

    Given that a South Asian is PM of England, times may have changed.

    May.

  77. 77.

    Barbara

    @brendancalling: Never mind the imagery of Ron DeSantis going toe to toe with a Roman soldier wearing a toga, but it offends me when someone uses traits associated with the feminine as an insult when applied to men.

  78. 78.

    trollhattan

    Now, I just can’t. I can not hear the same bad arguments and the same lies and the rest of the bullshit.

    Same.

    What has changed for me is now hearing the same vacuous garbage from politicians around the globe, as though Steve Bannon has replicated like a human bacterium and landed in dozens of nations. e.g., Tories are effectively posh Republicans (posh, in this instance, includes reliable subject-verb agreement and other such niceties).

    It’s galling and since I’m in the middle of a vast book on WWI, not hard to see parallels with the world as it was 110 years ago. I do not know how we steer the ship in a different direction.

  79. 79.

    Hoodie

    @Jeffro: Seems like Christie might be at that point.  His soliloquy on Trump was pretty well done and he did stand up to some extent against anti-trans hysteria.  The problem with Christie is that he’s pretty smart and a talented communicator, but he’s just a corrupt shitbird at base.  Because he’s smart, he knew all along what Trump was about but went along for the ride for a long time before realizing that it really was dangerous (for example, Trump almost killed him from indifference to the risks of Covid).   I wouldn’t be surprised if he dropped out soon and threw his support to Haley (not that she’s any great shakes).  It’s all pretty irrelevant because I doubt most Republicans are watching or took any of what he said to heart.

  80. 80.

    RevRick

    @geg6: The recent huffy article about women not dating Republicans is another example of rejecting assholes in the wild as a  cause for alarm.

  81. 81.

    teezyskeezy

    @Jeffro: If he clocked Vivek, he’d be a felon, and no one would vote for a criminal as the nominee…*stares directly into the camera…* ..

  84. 84.

    Tony Jay

    @catclub:

    Sunak is only Prime Minister because he came second in the 2022 Tory leadership race behind Liz Truss, and once she resigned after blowing up the economy, a majority of Tory MPs, fearing what breed of barking lunatic the feral Tory Party membership would throw up if offered another go, handed the leadership to Sunak.

    So, no, it doesn’t mean much at all. Tory MPs wanted someone who could pose as a sensible businessman who understood money and how not to cost the country multi-billions of it, but they knew the Party faithful would rather not have a brown penis swinging above them, so they went without even the appearance of a democratic election.

  85. 85.

    teezyskeezy

    @catclub: I feel like tokenism is a thing the rightwing will do to give themselves legitimacy while they need to prove their legitimacy to the general public.  Once they lock in power and destroy the ability of the public to vote them out, then the masks come off. Maybe some  authoritarianism is less racially focused than others, but you never know how exactly it will go down until they are in control and can do what they want.

  87. 87.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Tony Jay: and to stay as PM, Sunak has had to promise all sorts of draconian measures against the teeming brown masses trying to invade green and pleasant Albion from beyond the Sewage choked seas.

  88. 88.

    geg6

    @RevRick: ​
     
    Heh, yes. I’ve heard this shit my entire life. I was one of those toddlers who wouldn’t play with dolls and, when asked about my adult plans, proudly announced I was never getting married or having kids. And what do you know, that’s exactly how I turned out. From teenage years on, boys and men have told me I’m intimidating. Which I really am not, but I do give off a vibe that I really don’t give a damn about what men think about me. Only the most self-confident of men seem to have decided I wasn’t some sort of Amazon woman who was going to un-man them in the middle of the night. I blame my dad, who was my advocate, champion and conspirator. He was the greatest girl dad of all time.

  89. 89.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @sdhays: At the same time, the show has had some really gross Transphobia according to accounts I’ve read from people in that community.

  90. 90.

    Chetan Murthy

    @RaflW: i’ve been told that some South Asians actually manage to pass for white.  I wouldn’t know, I’m browner than many many many Black Americans.  And Vivek?  It’s not clear which of us is browner but it’s pretty close.  That fucker needs to check the back of his hand.

  92. 92.

    Suzanne

    I see that the House is engaging in Incredibly Important Business for the Country this morning by censuring Rep. Bowman for being misreading a sign. So glad we have these fine public servants solving the tough problems on our behalf.

  93. 93.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: LMAO. There’s a house that I occasionally drive by, and they have two VIVEK signs up in their yard! I’m so happy when assholes identify themselves.

    There’s actually a Vivek house! Out in the wild! LAWL.

  95. 95.

    Yarrow

    @Tony Jay:  So is there going to be yet another leadership contest before the next election? The denials are making it look like there could be.

    Sunak has certainly embarrassed himself with this horrific Rwanda bill. You know it’s bad when Rwanda says, “Nope. We’re not doing that. It violates international law.”

    Also, anyone who is or knows anyone who is married to a foreigner in the UK needs to be paying attention to the latest Tory broadside against immigrant families. If you aren’t in the 30% or so of top earners in the UK then you can’t qualify to bring your spouse into the UK. If you are already there and your spouse needs to renew their visa and you don’t earn enough, your spouse may have to leave. Even if you have kids. The kids can stay, but mum or dad has to go. Here’s an article on it.

  96. 96.

    Tony Jay

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Mad Queen Bess, yes. A woman so addled she still thinks her Premiership was sabotaged by ‘sinister forces’.

    @Chetan Murthy:

    The man has the spine of a box jellyfish and all the political acumen of an occasional table with three misaligned legs. He’s spent his entire time in office throwing red-meat to the Base and all its got him is 20 points behind in the polls and an unshiftable reputation as a cowardly little nobody.

    The sooner he moves back to California (he’s yours, no take-backs, this window is now closed) the better.

  99. 99.

    Jeffro

    btw the NYT has up a real zinger by Michelle Cottle on the op-ed page: Was It Worth It, Kevin?

    yeOWch

    do not cry for the former Young Gun. He has too few regrets to mention. As he bravely cheered his own performance in a Wall Street Journal essay announcing his departure, “I go knowing I left it all on the field — as always, with a smile on my face.”

    Boy, did he. In his fevered pursuit of the gavel, Mr. McCarthy time and again prostrated himself before the altar of Donald Trump, sacrificing basically all the things that matter: his dignity, his integrity, his values (such as they were), his soul — you name it.

    Alongside fellow Young Guns Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor, he was part of a new generation of fresh, feisty conservatives looking to overhaul what they saw as a stale, out-of-touch Republican Party.

    Like an adorable boy band, the three pals each had a persona: Mr. Ryan the policy wonk, Mr. Cantor the blossoming leader and Mr. McCarthy the political animal. Mr. McCarthy was less concerned about policy or ideology than about mapping out the wins — for his team and, above all, for himself. Riding high in the mid-Obama era, the trio coauthored a book, titled, of course, “Young Guns,” that boldly demanded to know: “America urgently needs a new direction. But who will provide it?”

    Spoiler alert: none of these guys.

    Of course, a shape-shifting, flip-flopping, over-promising, self-serving politician is nothing new. Where Mr. McCarthy truly distinguished himself was in his willingness and ability to debase himself in the service of Donald Trump — even as he occasionally pretended to still have a spine. “My Kevin,” as Mr. Trump so delighted in calling him, certainly did his part to aid Mr. Trump’s political revival after the Jan. 6 sacking of the Capitol. In a turnaround so dramatic it must have given him whiplash, Mr. McCarthy went from saying that Mr. Trump needed to “accept his share of responsibility” for his role in the attack to, some weeks later, slinking down to Mar-a-Lago for a grotesque photo op with the former president.

    What could be more pathetic than this little field trip? Mr. McCarthy’s attempts to justify it.

    So do we send her an honorary Balloon Juice membership card or what?  LOL

  100. 100.

    RaflW

    @brendancalling: Can we plop Ron DeSimpering in an Egyptian or Moroccan desert, wearing his black jeans, navy blazer, and white rubber boots, and see how he fares compared to the men in traditional dress? Maybe give him one little 8.5 oz Aquafina and a map and say “Cairo is 100 km that way. Good luck.”

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @RevRick:

    As Prof. Karen Ashcraft has pointed out, the Great Replacement Theory is really about sex, and is directed at white women. First, it scolds them for not popping out enough white babies. Second, it seeks to scare them about those icky, dangerous nonwhite men. Third, it shames them for choosing a decent nonwhite guy over a shitty white man.

    Absolutely true. I wish that could fit on a bumper sticker.

  102. 102.

    Tony Jay

    @Yarrow:

    I know, it’s just… yeah.

    It’s looking like the Tory (Far, Far, oh so very Far) Right are willing to blow the Party up and spend a few years cementing their grip on the rump National Conservative Party (themselves, the Reform/Brexit Party, a few other extremist odd and sods) while they blame everything wrong with the country on Starmer’s Nu-Lab Corporate Franchise, whether that wins enough seats to govern alone or needs a coalition with the Lib-Dems.

    We’ll have to see. But yeah, Sunak seems to be a dead man walking.

  103. 103.

    RaflW

    @Jeffro: Great piece. I’d say to this “Instead of remaking the party, the party wound up remaking the Young Guns”, that like so much else, Trump & Trumpism just exposed the naked uselessness of these people. They were never any good.

    And it was always embarrassing that the pundit class was totally snowed by Paul Ryan’s alleged wonk-ness. Maybe he dressed the part, and could throw a few MBA buzz words. But his numbers never added up. Ever.

    Good riddance to all three (though Quevin is likely to linger in the most malignant ways, as a lobbyist money/puke funnel.)

  104. 104.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Chetan Murthy: Lighter skin helps, but it only takes you so far with white nationalists and other assorted RWNJs.

    In India I would say it is a definite plus because it is equated with a higher rank in the caste hierarchy

    But again a Brahmin male like Avivek has more privilege than any lighter skinned man lower in the caste hierarchy

    ETA: A brahmin priest barred the entry of the Adivasi female President of India in a Delhi temple not that long ago and no one batted an eyelid. The President is the ceremonial head of the state in India.

  105. 105.

    Yarrow

    @Tony Jay:  I see ITV is helping NIgel Farage entertainment-wash his reputation on “I’m a Celebrity…” He’ll be ready to parachute in to some constituency to stand as a Tory candidate for MP in the next election. Disgusting.

  107. 107.

    Chetan Murthy

    @schrodingers_cat: Googling, I see that Adivasi refers to members of various tribal groups in India, all outside the caste system.  Would it be fair to say that Adivasi are treated like untouchables ?  [I left India at age 4, and know nothing of these things]

  108. 108.

    cain

    @Frankensteinbeck: That said, South Park does a fairly good job of skewing conservatism dogma especially when it comes to religion. I find that I’m not particularly offended by the tropes that SP uses with liberals or maybe those are leftists.

  109. 109.

    Betsy

    It’s not a debate. It’s a bullsh*t session.

    It’s not even as good as a bull-session, which is useful for brainstorming and throwing around ideas.

    It’s just a ca-ca session.

    Sad for our era. Not only are we seeing the Death of Expertise — we’re seeing the Death of Any Connection to Empirical Reality.

  111. 111.

    Ramona

    @schrodingers_cat: Gosh! I didn’t realize his name was Avivek.

    Growing up Catholic in Bombay, I’d implicitly assumed I was familiar with the full spectrum of Hindu names. My favorite is “Avinash”. But, in the States, I’ve met people whose names I’d never encountered before. I also made friends with a woman named Krishna who might have been born in the late forties. I had not known then that Krishna could be a woman’s name. I was familiar with the name “Vivek” which I’d liked (probably for its alliteration) until now that it’s associated with such an odious being who is odious in oh so boringly a familiar way!

  114. 114.

    Suzanne

    @Jeffro: LMMFAO. God. Ryan, Cantor, and McCarthy…. what a trio of utter losers. At least their moms still love them. I mean, I don’t know that.

  119. 119.

    BigJimSlade

    Now, I just can’t. I can not hear the same bad arguments and the same lies and the rest of the bullshit. Like, since W. get (s)elected.

    That’s pretty much how I feel about the news. This is why I read blogs (both of them!)

  120. 120.

    Soprano2

    @schrodingers_cat: I try to see the reality of the way things are. Lots of people call that pessimism. ETA – I’m going to suggest to the 1A program that they do a series of shows on “Project 2025”. People aren’t taking this seriously enough, and I daresay most people don’t know anything about it. That needs to change – TFG and his minions are telling everyone what they’ll do if he wins, if only people would listen and pay attention.

  121. 121.

    schrodingers_cat

    @cain: Not crazy, he is using Sanghi debate tactics. Have you come across the nutjob Jai Sai Deepak? or Sudanshu Trivedi? They have similar debating strategy prone to excess, rapid fire nonsense and lies coming out of their mouths like water pores out of  a firehose.

  122. 122.

    Tony Jay

    @Yarrow:

    And what are ITV getting out of it? The hosts speaking out to say that they need to stop having ‘political contestants’ (and Ant & Dec are no fools) while the reviewers are starting to turn the dial towards “Don’t you think it’s starting to look a bit old and tired?”.

    Farage, meanwhile, swans off with hundreds of thousands and might finally get into Parliament in the new Nat-C Party.

  123. 123.

    AWOL

    @OzarkHillbilly: Many Indians are extreme racists who consider themselves Aryans. For extra fun, find an Indian from Trinidad—their use of the N-word would make a Confederate blush.

  125. 125.

    schrodingers_cat

    @AWOL: Arya in Sanskrit means pure. Germans coopted it in the late 19th century. It was not a racial moniker, anyone who followed Vedic rituals was considered an Arya.
    Persian which is also an Indo European language uses the same word, Iran is different pronouciation of the same word. So that word predates the Nazis by millenia

    So an Indian using that word does not necessarily mean they think of themselves as Nazis. But its still pretty idiotic and reeks of delusions.

  127. 127.

    zhena gogolia

    @schrodingers_cat: Is Christie pronouncing his first name correctly (with the stress on the second syllable)? My favorite student of all time had that first name, and I thought he pronounced it with the stress on the first syllable. But maybe he had Americanized it.

  128. 128.

    p.a.

    @schrodingers_cat: … nonsense and lies coming out of their mouths like water pores out of  a firehose.

     

    Gish Gallop: The Gish gallop (/ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/) is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.- Wikipedia

  129. 129.

    cain

    @Ramona:

    I’ve been watching indian shows with my wife and the number of indian names I have never encountered before is quite a lot. Despite the rampaging  nationalism + modi – the shows have become more liberal and inclusive – where you now see folks from himachal pradesh who can look full on Asian competing in shows and what not. It’s like India has discovered its own diversity and it isn’t just the usual areas.

  133. 133.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @cain: ​
    South Park’s consistent message from day one was “Everyone is just as bad, all ideals are bullshit, and making fun of people is what’s cool.” It is a favorite of young Libertarians. It is a vile and destructive cultural influence run by bigoted assholes. It is the embodiment of “Can’t you take a joke?” hate speech.

  134. 134.

    Chetan Murthy

    @p.a.: When I was a kid, I participated in debate.  We used to call this the “spread strategy”.   Whaaaat a waste of time! (debate as a thing to do in school, I mean: it had nothing to do with actually arriving at the truth of a proposition).

  136. 136.

    sdhays

    @UncleEbeneezer: I haven’t watched it in years. They can be pretty obtuse about things they don’t understand, and I can readily believe that transgender people would be something they would have trouble understanding.

    Honestly, I think they should have just stopped several years ago.

  138. 138.

    JaySinWA

    I don’t have cable, haven’t for a while.

    I didn’t go looking for the debate last night but I found it – on Comet, not on any of the big three or PBS. I didn’t check CW.

    Comet is generally SciFi/ fantasy. They preempted Buffy the Vampire Slayer in our time zone.

    They have been doing some weird prime time scheduling lately. They are owned by Sinclair

    ETA I just noticed it was there, I didn’t watch it.

  139. 139.

    Kay

    AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Texas judge grants pregnant woman permission to have an abortion in rare challenge to ban; state likely to appeal.

    This is the case (pdf)

    The case is about the “health of the mother” exception, which has turned out to be the biggest issue in states that limit womens bodily autonomy rights – it’s also the most politically powerful for Democrats, IMO, based on the hundreds of women I talked to in Ohio’s Issue 1 campaign.

    It shouldn’t surprise anyone this is the biggest issue (although it clearly is a surprise to anti abortion lobbyists) – both Ireland and Mexico changed their abortion laws based on risk to the mothers health. Obviously, this resonates deeply with women – the idea that anti abortion lawmakers are an immediate threat to their health.

  140. 140.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @Barbara: me too. But it happens all the damn time. Anything coded female, any profession that’s predominantly female or anyone assigned male at birth who identifies as female is seen as less than, weak, etc   Pussy is used as a slur to mean someone is weak and the speaker is not referring to a cat. The C word is considered by many to be the worst that no you can call someone.  People start in infancy refering to what a Real Boy a male baby is or how pretty a baby girl is and who she might marry when she grows up. It’s 2023 and I  am still hearing this shit  pretty tired of it.

  141. 141.

    Dave

    @brendancalling: “Man Dress” was definitely term used during OIF and OEF. Not great. DeSantis is trying to signal look I was deployed doing real deployed stuff. Manly stuff but in addition to it being ya’know at least moderately racist it also comes off as weird to people not familiar with the pejorative and like a pathetic tryhard to those who are.

  143. 143.

    MagdaInBlack

    @geg6: I too have dealt with it my whole life, not behaving as “girls are expected.”  My MIL believed I was a lesbian. I let her. Who cares. Her son whom I married had no issues with my personality.  I “blame” my mother who was exactly the same. 

  144. 144.

    cain

    @cain: Sorry not himachal – but Arunachal Pradesh – I keep messing those two up – they are in two completely different regions.

  145. 145.

    Ruckus

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Getting practice does not mean he’s learning or even capable of learning. And whatever he actually is, he seems to be having a rather difficult time even coming within a million miles of being human. Of course the old saying, “It takes all kinds” does apply here. But if he hasn’t learned by now, and he hasn’t, it doesn’t seem likely that he ever will.

  146. 146.

    Ruckus

    @Dangerman:

    WC is better than McDs by a substantial level. Now it’s been decades since I’ve had a WC but I’m pretty sure that McDs hasn’t been able to improve several hundred percent.

  147. 147.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ejoiner:

    Right there with you – in a weird way I’m much more tuned out to politics right now than ever before…the details don’t matter at this point, you either vote for the Democratic party and our constitutional government or for the Republicans for a fascist kleptocracy. That’s it.

    Same here.  I am loosely following a couple of things – the prospects of Ukraine aid getting through Congress, and the prospects of state referenda reestablishing Roe in those states – but that’s about it right now.  Other than those, all that matters is the one big thing.

  150. 150.

    Ruckus

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Read the Guardian stories about this and it goes on with other stories concerning TX police. It seems that everyone having a gun has recreated the old west with many feeling the need to prove that they can fire a gun and hit someone. Is it possible that in TX it isn’t a recreation?

  153. 153.

    lowtechcyclist

    @RevRick:

    Other than Nixon sweating in the first debate or Ford claiming that there was no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe or Obama telling Romney, “please proceed, governor,” was there anything memorable about any of them?

    There’s also Palin’s “All of them, Katie” and SNL’s “I can see Russia from my house” Palin parody. But point taken.

  155. 155.

    Paul in KY

    @Chetan Murthy: Back in the day (50s – 60s), when there were hardly any South Asians at all here, he might have been able to pass as a very Southern Italian guy who spent alot of time outdoors.

  162. 162.

    marklar

    @Paul in KY: “The creators of South Park (especially the main creative one, Parker) are libertarian douchewads.”

     

    Marklar agrees, even though they birthed his nym. Haven’t watched the show for over a decade. They spend too much time punching down.

  164. 164.

    zhena gogolia

    @schrodingers_cat: With more emphasis on the “wake”? I had no idea it was pronounced like a “w.”

    And where I heard him say it is in the interview clip, not the debate.

  167. 167.

    Miss Bianca

    @Paul in KY: I always wish Dukakis had been able to turn that question back on the bastard who asked him that: “What if it was your son who raped and killed my wife? Would you be so eager to have me declare for the death penalty then?”

  171. 171.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Paul in KY: Yes. Adivasis are casteless as in they are outside the caste system. So lowlier than the lowest caste. They don’t consider themselves Hindu and their religion is animist

    India’s former President Kovind, who was Dalit was not allowed to enter Puri’s Jagannath Mandir.

  173. 173.

    Eduardo

    @Paul in KY: For sure.  But Garrison(s) dysfunctionalities can be found in some members of the LGBT community (of course, grotesquely exaggerated), and are described with a level of knowledge and precision that seem to have been written by gay people.   Their humanity comes out and I think there’s a lot of room to identify with their plight and root for them.  Not what a bigot would do, I think. (See Babylon Bee and try to find anything funny there.)

    They (the Garrisons) can also be major assholes but the town is chock-full of them.  And I kind of like that they dish as much as they take.

    I fully understand all the commenters here that have no use for those guys and they have good arguments.  This is just how I have felt watching the show for all those years.

    I am dying to see “The Book of Mormon”.

  177. 177.

    Paul in KY

    @Miss Bianca: Agree so much! I still think that if he hadn’t rode around in that tank with the stupid looking helmet on and had shot the question back as you said, he’d have won. People were tired of Reaganism & GHWB sure ran on that.

  179. 179.

    Yarrow

    @Tony Jay: I don’t know what ITV are getting out of it. It worked out pretty well for them last time with Matt Hancock. The Farage stunt doesn’t seem to be going as well. Maybe ITV were pressured into hiring hm?

  181. 181.

    Paul in KY

    @Eduardo: I don’t like either of the creators (especially Parker), but I do regularly watch the show & have found many episodes funny.

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