Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

Not all heroes wear capes.

In my day, never was longer.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: The Old Warrior Has One Last Battle In Him

Thursday Morning Open Thread: The Old Warrior Has One Last Battle In Him

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NBC News, “Biden says he’s ‘not the only one who can defeat’ Trump”

President Joe Biden said Wednesday that he didn’t think he was the only Democrat who could prevail over former President Donald Trump next year but that “I will defeat him” — a day after he suggested he wouldn’t be running for re-election had Trump stayed out.

Biden was delivering remarks urging Congress to pass his national security package when he responded to a reporter’s question about whether he thought another Democrat could defeat Trump, the Republican presidential front-runner.

“Probably 50 of them,” Biden said.

“No, I’m not the only one who can defeat him, but I will defeat him,” he added.

On Tuesday, Biden said that his re-election campaign was prompted in part by Trump’s decision to run for president again and that it was an effort to block his predecessor from reclaiming the White House.

“If Trump wasn’t running, I’m not sure I’d be running,” Biden said at a campaign event in Boston, adding that he “cannot let him win.”…

Politico adds:

…This comes after there has been a new focus on Trump’s authoritarian tendencies in the campaign. In a town hall with Fox News’ Sean Hannity earlier this week, Trump again indicated that he would use the levers of power to take revenge on his enemies if he is reelected.

“He says ‘you’re not going to be a dictator, are you?’” Trump said. “I said ‘no no no, other than day one.’”


The backstory, at Reuters:

… After considering the decision for weeks with family and close confidants, Biden announced his re-election bid in April, coming to the private belief that neither Vice President Kamala Harris nor any other Democratic hopeful could beat Trump in next year’s general election, according to a former White House official who requested anonymity to discuss the president’s thinking.

The president’s aides increasingly regard Trump’s frontrunner status for the Republican presidential nomination as insurmountable, according to two of those Democrats who also declined to be named.

Biden has repeatedly made comments about Trump during a fundraising blitz that started on Tuesday in Boston and is set to include at least nine events before the end of the month.

“I don’t think anyone doubts our democracy is at risk again,” Biden said earlier on Tuesday.

 
Speaking of old warriors who don’t quit:

Reader Interactions

85Comments

  2. 2.

    NotMax

    Thing I learned this week.

    The GDP of the Australian state of New South Wales is larger than that of the entire U.K.

  3. 3.

    Tim C.

    @NotMax: I just googled that, cause it didn’t seem right,

    UK GDP: 3.1 Trillion USD

    NSW GDP: 660 Billion USD

    Not saying you are wrong, I used Wikipeda and Google,  but what’s your source on that?

  6. 6.

    Jeffro

    Here’s a good example of what talking about “the stakes, not the odds” (h/t Jay Rosen*) looks like:

    In her characteristically blunt, unvarnished way, [Liz Cheney] told CBS’s John Dickerson in an interview aired Sunday: “He’s told us what he will do. It’s very easy to see the steps that he will take. … People who say ‘Well, if he’s elected, it’s not that dangerous because we have all of these checks and balances’ don’t fully understand the extent to which the Republicans in Congress today have been co-opted.” She stressed, “One of the things that we see happening today is a sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the United States.”

    “I believe very strongly in those principles and ideals that have defined the Republican Party, but the Republican Party of today has made a choice and they haven’t chosen the Constitution,” she said. “And so I do think it presents a threat if the Republicans are in the majority in January 2025.”

    *Rubin also notes in her piece that this ‘stakes not odds’ framing originated from Rosen

    Anyway, thanks Liz!  I like the broader focus on the currently trump-corrupted Republican Party.  (And thanks Jennifer Rubin for staying focused on talking about the stakes).

    Speaking of the stakes, it dawned on me this morning that there might be some value in noting that under a trump kleptocracy, some portion of everyone’s taxes would be used to line trump’s and his kids’ pockets, and our entire government would be for sale to the highest foreign bidder.

  7. 7.

    NotMax

    @>Tim C.

    Here. He’s usually pretty reliable when it comes to statistics. Will note he’s talking about GDP per capita, something I glossed over above.

  8. 8.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Jesus fucking Christ.  The media wants a contested Democratic primary SO BADLY.  As we get closer and closer to the official decision, they punch and kick and scream louder “Why aren’t Democrats giving me the narrative I want!?”  “Biden is old” is an argument that exists only to make Democrats imagine nominating someone else.  Nobody is going to give a shit about it when it’s down to Biden vs Trump, and the national press knows it.  What are they going to do when it’s too late, Biden is officially the nominee, and their also-rans didn’t so much as scuff the paint on Biden’s campaign?

  10. 10.

    Scout211

    Restoring women’s health and abortion access is so important for all Democrats to run on in next year’s elections. I hope they don’t back down on this issue next year.

    Interesting report this morning from the Guttmacher Institute:

    Post-Roe, nearly 1 in 5 people seeking an abortion traveled out of state, analysis finds

    Nearly 1 in 5 people who had an abortion in the first half of 2023 – more than 92,000 people – traveled across state lines for their care, according to a report from the Guttmacher Institute, a research and policy organization focused on sexual and reproductive health that supports abortion rights. In a similar timeframe in 2020, before the US Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision revoked the federal right to abortion, less than 1 in 10 people left their home state for an abortion – about 50,000 fewer people.

    The data probably understates the impact that the Dobbs decision has had, says Isaac Maddow-Zimet, a data scientist with the Guttmacher Institute and lead researcher for the new report. More people are traveling for abortion care, and they’re traveling farther – largely because many states with bans and restrictions border each other.

    . . .

    People who traveled for abortion care may have time pressures, with a flight to catch or a long drive home, she said. Many have driven hundreds of miles and often travel with the family – both children and elders – whom they support.

    Whole Woman’s Health has adapted its waiting rooms accordingly, Hagstrom Miller said. In New Mexico, for example, clinics have a separate waiting room area with toys, snacks and comfortable couches to better serve patients and their families, especially those who have traveled for long hours.

    Nearly three-quarters of the abortions in New Mexico were provided to people who had traveled across state lines, according to the new data from the Guttmacher Institute. More than 8,200 people from out of state had an abortion in New Mexico in the first half of 2023. Only Illinois and North Carolina saw more out-of-state patients.

    . . .

    “A lot of the policies that states are passing, or other kinds of support that’s available for abortion patients more broadly, may be initially focused on helping folks traveling from out of state – which it does – but it also really helps to improve access for residents of those states,” Maddow-Zimet said. “In Illinois, we have this situation where a lot of clinics have scaled up capacity, a lot of funds have increased support, and that has definitely helped manage the huge amount of people who are coming in. And it’s also improved access for folks living in Illinois. It helps both sides of that story.”

  11. 11.

    catclub

    @NotMax: but any small rich nation has higher gdp per capita – Monte Carlo.

     

    Now California versus UK is probably a fair fight for overall GDP

  12. 12.

    Jeffro

    btw if anyone is sleeping too well these days, here’s something that should put a stop to that right quick: trump’s loyalty-first cabinet picks: Bannon, Miller, Patel, Carlson, Vance, and more worse.

    I cannot even.

    Clear yer calendars, people, we’ve got important work to do next year: making sure this shit NEVER happens!

  13. 13.

    catclub

    I will just note that having the GOP debate on ‘NewsNation’ is just about down to local access cable channel.

    And I agree that Trump will not debate Biden.

  16. 16.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @catclub:

    I agree that Trump will not debate Biden.

    His voters won’t like that.  Trust me.  I have seen it in action in Kentucky.  Against the also-rans in the primary it looks strong.  In the general it will look weak, and Republican voter enthusiasm drops like a rock.

  18. 18.

    Another Scott

    @catclub: We all know, TIFG is a coward.  Of course he won’t debate Biden.  He won’t even debate any of the ones in his own party running against him.

    !!BREAKING NEWS!! Sun rises in the East!

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    Biden was delivering remarks urging Congress to pass his national security package when he responded to a reporter’s question about whether he thought another Democrat could defeat Trump, the Republican presidential front-runner.

    “Probably 50 of them,” Biden said.

    “Including Baud!,” he whispered silently to himself.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    Worst platitude of the week?

    Just heard on a British program running in the background:

    “You can’t lay new lino over a dead cat.”

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    A while ago, I said McCarthy would serve out this term in Congress if Santos was expelled. I underestimated McCarthy’s vindictiveness. Happy I am to have been wrong.

  28. 28.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I underestimated McCarthy’s vindictiveness.

    It makes sense in hindsight.  Here was a man willing to do absolutely anything to get the Speaker’s gavel.  He was desperately pathetic.  He lied, he begged, he endured humiliating restrictions no other Speaker has considered.  Being kicked out of that position has to be the biggest emotional event in his life, for a man who has already proven he’s a dishonest, petty, self-obsessed little toad.

  29. 29.

    Soprano2

    @Jeffro: What TFG and the Republicans want is a state like Hungary, where it appears that democracy still exists and there are still elections, but the deck is so stacked in one direction that their party always wins. Then they can say, like Erdogan in Hungary does, that there are elections so why are you upset? I’m not a dictator, I was elected by the people. They’ve told us all that’s what they want with this constant whining that if they didn’t win an election was “rigged”. They want to rig it so they almost always win.

  30. 30.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, the war on Christmas decorations has begun.

    “The competition is really supposed to reflect the spirit of the season, be upbeat and fun, let people share their holiday traditions and different faith traditions,” said North Carolina Democratic Rep. Deborah K. Ross, who has participated since she came to office in 2021. “So this is not in keeping with the spirit of the season.”

    I’ll let you guess which other political party she’s talking about.

    It’s not worth a click if you want to be in a good mood the rest of the day.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  31. 31.

    Tony Jay

    @Frankensteinbeck:

      What are they going to do when it’s too late, Biden is officially the nominee, and their also-rans didn’t so much as scuff the paint on Biden’s campaign?

    Oh, that’s easy. They’ll switch effortlessly to coverage of “Concerns within the Democrat Party Mount that factions within the White House erred in shielding elderly President from challengers.” Then they’ll basically lavish all the coverage they should have applied to Trump’s ‘no questions’ campaign onto Biden’s campaign. Thus feeding the God of both-sides/Democrats are worse the sacrifices it craves.

  33. 33.

    Soprano2

    @Frankensteinbeck: I agree that it will look weak. He can’t spend months and months saying Biden is “cognitively challenged” and then refuse to go head-to-head with him. Why would you refuse to debate someone if you think you can run rings around them?

  35. 35.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    There may well be fifty Democrats who can theoretically beat TFG, but there’s one candidate who has already beaten him before in a non-theoretical sense. There’s a time for a discussion about the future direction of the Democratic Party, but that time is after Trump and the Trumpists are, politically speaking, dead and buried. Until then, I don’t want to gamble the future of the country on the results of an internecine squabble.

  36. 36.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: That would be Victor Orban who is the Prime Minister of Hungary.

    It’s easier to keep Orban and Erdogan straight if you remember that the President of Turkiye actually looks like a turkey. Orban looks more like a frog.

  38. 38.

    Trivia Man

    @Frankensteinbeck: Joe and his support need to just start hammering that now. “I know he wNt debate me, he’ll make some silly excuse. But we all know it’s because his positions are indefensibly blue and he doesn’t have the stamina to try for 2 hours on a neutral stage.”

  39. 39.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Geminid:

    @lowtechcyclist: Good morning! Are you working today, or do you have some time off?

    It’s a full day of work, including 3 hours of meetings.

    Also got hit by a power outage this morning which took more than an hour from my day.  It’s one of those days!

  40. 40.

    Trivia Man

    “He wouldn’t debate his own party and they all agree with him 100%”

    has the added bonus of tainting any possible replacement in case T drops from a bad cheeseburger pre-November

  42. 42.

    catclub

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Also, Trump tends to believe his own PR.

     

    The House GOP caucus believed their own story on Obama as clueless and brought him to their meeting – I guess in 2009.  They did not repeat that after he  outdebated the entire caucus.

  48. 48.

    Jeffro

    @Soprano2:What TFG and the Republicans want is a state like Hungary, where it appears that democracy still exists and there are still elections, but the deck is so stacked in one direction that their party always wins.

    Can’t argue with any of that, except maybe to add, “…and the trump family gets a cut of the action”.

  50. 50.

    Bupalos

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    There’s a time for a discussion about the future direction of the Democratic Party, but that time is after Trump and the Trumpists are, politically speaking, dead and buried. Until then, I don’t want to gamble the future of the country on the results of an internecine squabble.

    It’s really hard to assess which is the greater risk. But in general I think we’re talking ourselves into a kind of fear that our coalition is so precarious and fragile that we need to just stand still. I’m not sure at what point that is supposed to go away, because ‘when Trump and the Trumpists are dead and buried’ is likely to be either never or after the cataclysm they create by taking power. This is a global movement that will take decades to play out.

    For my money, there wouldn’t be any better time to open up this kind of internal conversation than when there is someone unequivocal and hated like Trump to coalesce against. And best case would have been for Biden to announce he was hanging it up a year ago.

  52. 52.

    jonas

    @Frankensteinbeck:  Republican voter enthusiasm drops like a rock.

    Remember, it’s a cult, not a political movement. So no, they won’t give a shit and will still think it’s badass to tell Biden and the media to pound sand.

  53. 53.

    WaterGirl

    @Jeffro: Is today the day we are supposed to be boycotting the Washington Post if we want to support the workers who are walking out?

    edit: I see from previous comments that to has been confirmed that today is the day.

  55. 55.

    Miss Bianca

    @Frankensteinbeck: You think so? I mean, I *hope* so, but with the Trump cult I feel like I never know what’s going to actually turn them off (except advocating for COVID vaccinations after nearly dying. That turned them off, as I recall.)

  56. 56.

    kindness

    Last night’s The Daily Show really pissed me off.  During the opening Headlines/jokes segment, they went all in on telling Joe Biden he is too old and he has to step aside and let someone else run.

    Who the hell are these mole people?  What planet did they come from because they sure as hell don’t seem to know how politics works here.

  57. 57.

    Miss Bianca

    @Bupalos:

    And best case would have been for Biden to announce he was hanging it up a year ago.

    Uh, no, dude. Yet another ice-cold hot take from The Man Who Knows…something.

  60. 60.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Trivia Man:

    no Josh Hawley? He’s got the most trumpy vibe to me

    Not really. Trump IS a low class guy who inherited a lot of money. That’s partly why his self-made image resonated with so many of his fans, even though its totally fake. He wasn’t a good student (also obvious). He’s had a continuous hustle going to try to grab the quick easy money. Upper class old money New York always looked down on the Trump clown show. But here he is, sleeping with models and porn stars, and living in gilded fancy houses. To the kind of men (especially) who do not come from money, are trying by any means necessary to get it, and have felt looked down on, Trump is both relatable and asperational.

    Josh Hawley is an elitist twat who’s pretending to be a man of the people.

  63. 63.

    Bupalos

    @kindness: Are we really that sure we know how politics works here? We’ve got a story for ourselves that Biden’s age is not an issue or is only an issue because “the media” “wants” to make it an issue. That story works for us, but I think if you talk to low info people on the regular you’ll get another impression.

    Now I’m totally with the idea that it’s now probably too late and causes too much chaos for Biden to withdraw. But people need to keep their eyes open here and not think handwaving is going to be enough. We need to be less defensive about the downsides of age and more proactive about the upsides of experience and record. There are tens of millions of voters who are predisposed to think of Biden’s age as disqualifying. And we’ve got 10 months for that to get worse or get better.

  64. 64.

    Bupalos

    @Miss Bianca: I’m aware it’s not a popular take here. Though I think if Biden had done it this group would be lauding his wisdom and noting how it reversed the equation setting up Trump as the oldest candidate to ever run for president.

  65. 65.

    Paul in KY

    @Jeffro: He wants a yes-man/woman toady has his potential veep. Sorta like Pence, but with more lickspittle.

     

    Edit: Vifake is trying for that, but TFG would probably never allow that annoying jerk to get in a position where he would have to listen to him for more than 12 secs.

  69. 69.

    Miss Bianca

    @Bupalos: I don’t share your opinion, obviously, and I don’t think I’m alone here. Personally, I find your “contrarian” BS to be tiresome in the extreme. Fortunately it also seems to get zero traction here except from some of the other contrarian cranks who like to flog the poor old “Biden is ooooolllldd” nag to death.

  70. 70.

    Bupalos

    @Miss Bianca: I really don’t think I’m really terribly contrarian, but I suppose things like this are relative. But don’t you think it’s best to have at least of few of these tiresome exhausting cranks around, if for no other reason than to boost the communal feeling among the rest of the choir? How would the rest of you know how vehemently you all agreed if you couldn’t shout “BS!!” at us?

  71. 71.

    Bupalos

    @Paul in KY: All things being equal, as they say.

    There really are political moods where incumbency is neutral or a detriment. I think in general we’re in a political era of increasing change, dislocation, and dissatisfaction, and that this value going forward is going to be much lower than we’re used to. It’s really somewhat stunning that the economic data and conditions are what they are, and yet the polity as a whole seems dead set on interpreting it as the product of mismanagement and decline. Or say crime. People seem to be predisposed to seeing the world as falling apart and willing to look past reality to affirm that predisposition. Not sure it’s great to be an incumbent.

    And that’s not just an American story, it’s a global one.

  73. 73.

    Bupalos

    @PJ: There are a lot. I mean, every time the electorate perceives things to be going badly, incumbency is a detriment. In the U.S., Hoover. Carter. Bush. Trump…. I mean, maybe I don’t get the question. Globally incumbents and incumbent parties are getting slaughtered, some in real shocks like the Netherlands. You must mean this some other way than I’m interpreting.

  74. 74.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Geminid:

    @lowtechcyclist: When does your long vacation start?

    A week from tomorrow!!!!!

    And really a week from this afternoon, since all I’ll be doing on Friday of next week is going in, handing over my laptop, badge, and parking pass, signing some stuff, and then leaving.

    I’ve been counting down the days to the tune of Greig’s In the Hall of the Mountain King, lyrics courtesy of Beethoven’s Wig.

  75. 75.

    Paul in KY

    @Bupalos: Incumbency at the Presidential level is different than Incumbency as a US Rep. Both are a big advantage (IMO), but being President, having the ‘bully pulpit’, coming in to cities dispensing largess while ‘Hail to the Chief’ plays is a big advantage (IMO) over whomever is running to unseat you. That’s why it is so funny & pathetic that TFG couldn’t win even with all those built in advantages. He’s just a loser.

  77. 77.

    Bupalos

    @Paul in KY: I’m pretty sure data would say incumbency is a more sure benefit for congress than president, but it’s hard to compare because the nature of the incumbency itself is somewhat different.

    But in more recent times (that I’m pegging to the last 8 elections with an incumbent and going back to Ford) the incumbent record is 4-4.

  78. 78.

    Mike S. (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    @Bupalos: We just need the media to do one little thing they seem to regularly skip and that is if every time Biden’s age is mentioned if they would just say “Trump is just 3 years younger at 77 years old” I think that would neutralize the issue for many people.

  79. 79.

    Delaware Ben

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: Exactly. Biden is the right person for the right time, again. He is the consummate politician (and that is a good thing) and he can make government work as he has done this term.

  84. 84.

    Bupalos

    @WaterGirl: If by “virtually always” we mean “virtually always in the first 175 years of the republic, and half the time in the last 50, then yes.

    Things change in politics. Which is this case is both good and bad, because while the rule about incumbents winning is likely no longer in force, the one about presidents with sub-40% approval ratings probably isn’t either.

    All I want to argue for is for people to recognize that the age thing is very real and something to make sure we address rather than ignore because it’s just “the media” or whatever. While I personally believe Biden could and should have reversed this issue on the grand OLD party by retiring and grabbing some Big Gretch pompoms, he didn’t. And what matters now is explaining that oatmeal is better than anthrax.

  85. 85.

    Bupalos

    @Mike S. (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!): “All we need is for the media to be different than they are” is a really bad plan though. The reason they talk about Biden’s age is because they get eyeballs doing so. There is more than 1 reason for that, but one of them is that running a candidate this old is unprecedented in the literal sense of the term.

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