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Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Go Chuck (and other news) Open Thread

Go Chuck (and other news) Open Thread

by | 120 Comments

This post is in: 

Chuck Schumer is keeping the Senate in town.  I couldn’t imagine that we would do anything else, but it’s nice to see it happen for real.  (Schumer’s possible inner monologue:  “Fuck those guys!”)

Other good news:

Congress has approved legislation that would prevent any president from withdrawing the United States from NATO without approval from the Senate or an Act of Congress.

The measure, spearheaded by Sens. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) and Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), was included in the annual National Defense Authorization Act, which passed out of the House on Thursday and is expected to be signed by President Biden.

And more:

The House passed the National Defense Authorization Act with funding for Ukraine!

Just a couple more hoops and it should be on Joe’s desk.  It’s a good interim move.

Open thread.

 

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  1. 1.

    WaterGirl

    Oh, and Harry Litman is in the doghouse with me.  (I’m sure he cares.)

    He was talking about the Supreme Court taking up the “are we really going to let the FDA make decisions we don’t like?” case, and he referred to pregnant women seeking abortion as “the mothers”.  Head-desk.

  4. 4.

    Steeplejack

    Isn’t the “funding for Ukraine” a mere pittance, like $300 million? USA Today article doesn’t say. Better than nothing, to be sure.

  7. 7.

    Geminid

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, Biden is still looking for Congress to pass a $100+ billion supplemental appropriation bill. I think that includes about $60 billion in military assistance to Ukraine.

  12. 12.

    Frankensteinbeck

    You mean Johnson’s election wasn’t the hard right’s victorious plan, the GOP getting the House didn’t mean Ukraine was cut off, and Trump is not, in fact, calling the shots?  But mah DOOM!

  13. 13.

    WaterGirl

    Screw Christmas.  I’m hoping Schumer plays hard ball and keeps the senate as long as it takes to get funding for Ukraine.

    (No offense toward Christmas intended.)

  14. 14.

    Baud

    People were talking about eBooks in the last thread.

    E-books are fast becoming tools of corporate surveillance

    As the Internet Archive appeals a court decision blocking alternatives to surveillance-ridden digital book licenses, a new report reveals that the world’s largest publisher may be selling readers’ intimate personal data to the highest bidder

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    @Frankensteinbeck: Well funding for Ukraine is still mostly cut off (for now) but I am still hoping we can pull a rabbit out of a hat on that one.

    Funding Ukraine is good for the U.S. in so many ways.  The Rs are idiots for not being able to see that.

  20. 20.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: You think?  I bet even Jesus would approve of keeping the Senators here long enough to fund Ukraine, even if that mean they had to skip Christmas.  I went to Catholic grade school, so I feel pretty confident in saying that Jesus would not approve of genocide.

  21. 21.

    Geminid

    @WaterGirl: I think the Senate will git ‘er done next week. Blog favorite Kyrsten Sinema says she can “sense a deal” in the making.

    Then it will be up to the House. They don’t plan to meet until after New Year’s.

  23. 23.

    Geminid

    @Frankensteinbeck: Well, we can’t count our chickens yet. My guess is that the House will pass the big supplemental appropriation bill when it comes back in January, but this is not yet a certainty.

  24. 24.

    sdhays

    @Omnes Omnibus: Careful now, the estate of Theodor Seuss Geisel might be contacting you about the use of “Grinchy”.

    “Scroogesque” may be considered in the public domain, but I’m sure Disney’s looking into it anyway.

  27. 27.

    Scout211

    It’s always a good day when John Eastman is being investigated.

    Even if it’s Politico reporting.

    Federal prosecutors don’t appear to be done with John Eastman just yet.

    On Monday, a paralegal for special counsel Jack Smith’s office ordered transcripts from the recent disbarment trial of the former Donald Trump attorney. The move signals that prosecutors are still keeping tabs on Eastman, who helped orchestrate Trump’s last-ditch bid to remain in power despite his defeat in the 2020 election.
    . . .
    The transcript order is the first indication in weeks that Smith is still gathering evidence related to Trump’s allies. The dates of the transcripts correspond with Eastman’s defense testimony and cross-examination as he sought to preserve his license to practice law. Eastman testified for more than a dozen hours in his bar proceedings, which began in June and continued sporadically through early November. Bar investigators grilled Eastman at length about his reliance on purported statistical experts and his contacts with Trump, his aides and state lawmakers.

    In his testimony on the dates sought by the special counsel’s office, Eastman defended his work for Trump, claimed it was rooted in legitimate concerns about election fraud and said he gave no thought to whether his remarks to Trump’s supporters at a rally on Jan. 6, 2021, would inflame their anger.

  28. 28.

    MattF

    It’s… irksome that media reports take RW rhetoric and talking points as super-duper dramatic inside information, while ignoring the politics of what’s actually happening. There was second-by-second coverage of Chip Roy complaining about how political obstacles to his favored fascist programs kept getting in his way, with zero details about Roy’s actual goals. Grrrr.

  31. 31.

    Urza

    @WaterGirl: They don’t want good for the US.  They want the reduced economic growth from cutting it.  Its a twofer to appease Putin and hurt Biden, while also pissing people off about the state of the economy.

  32. 32.

    cmorenc

    Wow – the Ukraine funding authorization is a huge Biden deal – allowing Russia to grind down Ukraine’s ability to effectively resist Russian conquest would be the biggest foreign policy / strategic disaster in US history.  Is it enough to get Ukraine through past the 2024 election?

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    @cmorenc: This is not the big new funding that Ukraine needs, that the House is refusing to vote on.

    This is a relatively small amount of money, all things considered.  But it’s still progress

    edit: or, what Baud said!

  42. 42.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: Tell me about it. I’m sore as shit, and we’re not done yet. Seems like no matter how much I stretch, it’s never enough.

    But I’d better sign off now. Gotta big Zoom call, and then it’s up’n at ’em!

  44. 44.

    John S.

    @NotMax:

    I love Wes Anderson, but IMHO his last two films are his weakest (The French Dispatch and Asteroid City). They almost feel like someone else trying to do a copy of a Wes Anderson film.

    On the other hand, The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar is delightful!

  45. 45.

    cain

    @WaterGirl:

    Funding Ukraine is good for the U.S. in so many ways.  The Rs are idiots for not being able to see that.

    When you are collectively Russian assets – it’s more like the man in charge have asked them to do the kind of blockading needed.

    We need to make Russians keep spending – it will be just like Afghanistan – they don’t really know when to give up. Usually when they can no longer fool the public through lies because they have run out of men, money, and leaders.

  47. 47.

    Ben Cisco

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    You mean Johnson’s election wasn’t the hard right’s victorious plan, the GOP getting the House didn’t mean Ukraine was cut off, and Trump is not, in fact, calling the shots? But mah DOOM!

    Three words for you:

    Goalposts. On. Skates.

    Edited to add: I’m aware that this is NOT the full funding that is required.

  48. 48.

    Eolirin

    @Frankensteinbeck: Ukraine funding has not yet been properly secured. Until it is it could still get cut off. This buys a little bit of time.

    And it should be noted this was only able to be passed by bypassing the normal order of the house and required a 2/3rds majority to do so. Half the Republican caucus voted against it.

    We need to be honest about the challenges ahead of us on this. Things remain precarious. Hopefully they can get this done, but let’s not pretend it isn’t going to be hard, or that success is anything close to guaranteed.

  49. 49.

    RaflW

    “The sole focus of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) should be on national defense and security issues but instead it funds transgender surgery in the military and still allows drag queen shows on military bases,” Rep. Andy Harris, R-Md., a member of the House Freedum Caucus, said.

    Gee, Andy. If these things you don’t like are happening on bases involving troops who have signed a contract and sworn an oath, then — and get this thru your thick noggin — it has to do with national defense.

    Keeping our men and women in uniform healthy, and letting them have some recreation and entertainment, is part of the giant defense machine.

    Also I’m guessing based on movies from the era that Bob Hope +/or his contemporaries did drag in USO shows back in the day. Our WWII boys I’m confident didn’t have melt downs like you’re having, Andy.

  50. 50.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Steeplejack: It was probably my fave movie of his since Moonrise Kingdom.  And the only one that really moved me, emotionally.  That scene with Margot Robbie was so powerful.  Especially for someone who has grieved several major losses (family deaths) in recent years.  And I liked the fact that film actually kind of poked fun at his own reputation and movie-making style.

  51. 51.

    citizen dave

    I used to really like some of the Wes Anderson films.  But The French Dispatch, at least for me, was totally unwatchable.  Made it 10 minutes before shutting it off.  Glad I wasn’t trapped in a theater watching it.  Asteroid City is good, I really liked the cartoon look of it.  We screened Henry Sugar one night, but I was doomscrolling while my wife watched it.  I recall a LOT of narration.

  52. 52.

    Soprano2

    But I was told it was absolutely certain there would be no more money for Ukraine this year. Could it be that was wrong?

  60. 60.

    Eolirin

    @Redshift: Not being able to unilaterally leave NATO is good and important, but it doesn’t exactly stop a rogue president from ignoring our treaty obligations if Article 5 is invoked, and that’d be pretty much the same as pulling us out. There’s no constitutionally valid way of avoiding that either, other than impeaching the president over it.

  61. 61.

    Another Scott

    Yay Chuck!

    Meanwhile, … PetaPixel.com:

    An “extremely rare” half-female, half-male bird was photographed — in a sighting that has only been made once over 100 years ago.

    Zoologist and professor at the University of Otago in New Zealand Hamish Spencer had been on vacation in Colombia when amateur ornithologist John Murillo saw a hardly-seen bird known as a green honeycreeper.

    However, there was something highly unusual about this particular green honeycreeper bird.

    Typically, male green honeycreepers are predominantly blue in color. Meanwhile, female green honeycreepers have vibrantly green coloring. But this observed bird had both colors.

    […]

    Pretty birby.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  62. 62.

    wjca

    @WaterGirl: Funding Ukraine is good for the U.S. in so many ways.  The Rs are idiots for not being able to see that.

    Pretty sure they can see it.  They just don’t want anything good to happen to the country while Biden is President.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @Another Scott:

    This is the future Republicans have been warning us about.

     

     

    @wjca:

    Given the anecdata about people on our side who think the president is all powerful, I can’t fault the GOP strategy.

  66. 66.

    wjca

    @RaflW: I’m guessing based on movies from the era that Bob Hope +/or his contemporaries did drag in USO shows back in the day. Our WWII boys I’m confident didn’t have melt downs like you’re having, Andy.

    For that matter, watch the “Honey Bun” number in South Pacific.

    EDT Dang! Oldster got there first.

  68. 68.

    Eduardo

    @Jay C:  No — we hate communists and KGB agents more than anything else in this world.

    Many Cubans hate Democrats because they incorrectly think Dems are commies.

    And to be fair, more than one Democrat I have known seem to hate Florida Cubans more than they hate commies.

  69. 69.

    Steeplejack

    🚨 Alert! Ang Lee’s excellent comedy The Wedding Banquet (1993) starting just now on TCM. “Homosexual partners (Winston Chao, Mitchell Lichtenstein) living in Manhattan try to fool one’s nagging Taiwanese parents with a fake wedding.” Recommended.

  70. 70.

    beckya57

    The defense spending bill is good news.  The NATO bill is idiotic, worst kind of meaningless virtue signaling.  Presidents run foreign policy in the US.  All Trump would have to do is tell the world the US wouldn’t come to the aid of an attacked NATO nation.  He wouldn’t have to formally pull us out.

  71. 71.

    Baud

    @Eduardo:

    There is way too much glossing over the problems of communism.  But for Americans who aren’t from Cuba, communism is largely irrelevant these days except as a right wing attack line.  And the more abstract something is for people, the easier it is to turn it into something else.

  73. 73.

    catclub

    @Eolirin: Not even remotely. It might be enough to get them through to mid January.

     

    I think the last block of money was $23B to last about 6 months+, works out to $127M per day.

  74. 74.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Not so good news out of Missouri, where Republicans just pre-filed more than 20 anti-LBG-and-especially-T bills for their next legislative session.

    One target for lawmakers appears to be removing the expiration date from the gender-affirming care ban and a grandfather clause that allowed minors to continue hormone therapy or puberty blockers if they were already prescribed them — even as many clinics across the state have already stopped providing this care to minors.

    Another focus for some Republicans will be blocking or controlling discussions of LGBTQ issues and sexuality in the classroom. Legislation filed by state Sen. Rick Brattin would ban classroom discussions on gender identity or sexual orientation for students in kindergarten through third grade. Other bills attempt to restrict drag shows or performances, including a bill from Brattin that would ban children from drag shows. Violators of Brattin’s bill could be charged with a felony.

  77. 77.

    catclub

    @dm: allowing Russia to grind down Ukraine’s ability to effectively resist Russian conquest would be the biggest foreign policy / strategic disaster in US history.

     

    I think the invasion of Iraq was worse strategically than the botched Iran deal (so far). Both were bad.

  78. 78.

    Another Scott

    @beckya57: IANAL, but I understand that it specifically says in the Constitution that along with itself, treaties are the supreme law of the land. A president cannot simply ignore it, if, say, NATO invokes Article 5, because the NATO agreement is a treaty. (How it could do so without the USA voting for it is left as an exercise for the reader.)

    tl;dr – Hypotheticals are complicated.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    oldster

    @Steeplejack:

    I went to that thinking it would be a funny comedy about gay men.

    Instead, it was a powerful and moving story about grandparenthood, and the curious powerful hunger that some of us get, as we get older, to see our kids have kids.

    The final scene when the grandfather is wanded by the TSA guy at the airport — it has stayed with me ever since, as an image of peacefully accepting one’s inevitable death.

    That’s not a spoiler, by the way — he doesn’t die, in the movie at any rate. But we’ll all die sooner or later.

  85. 85.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @Another Scott: The Constitution says a LOT of stuff that it doesn’t say how to enforce and that, in fact, there is no way to enforce.  That is how it has brought itself, and this country, into impotence, discredit, and ridicule.

  87. 87.

    Kay

    Lansing — Testifying in court Thursday, top Michigan Republicans linked the organization and execution of a false certificate saying Donald Trump won the state’s 2020 presidential election directly to Trump’s campaign.
    While the Trump campaign has previously been tied to the overall strategy of crafting electoral certificates in seven battleground states, the testimony Thursday described campaign staffers as being involved in recruiting attendees and running the meeting of the false electors in Lansing on Dec. 14, 2020. During that gathering, 16 Republican activists signed a document that was used to claim the then-incumbent Republican president won Michigan’s 16 electoral votes.
    The revelations came on the second day of preliminary examinations for six of the Republican electors as Attorney General Dana Nessel’s office pursues criminal forgery charges against those whose names appeared on the false certificate.

  88. 88.

    Brit in Chicago

    @WaterGirl: “Funding Ukraine is good for the U.S. in so many ways.  The Rs are idiots for not being able to see that.”

    Is it possible, just barely possible, that some of them are not primarily motivated by what is good for the US? (A question for the lawyers: Can I still be deported for saying that? I am a US citizen now.)

  93. 93.

    oldster

    @raven:

    “It’s an Ang Lee film.”

    Yes, I knew he was the director, but your remark makes me think you mean something more.

    What should I infer from its being an Ang Lee film? What are the characteristics of an Ang Lee film that you would like to conjure up by saying his name?

  95. 95.

    Marc

    @Baud:  There is way too much glossing over the problems of communism.  But for Americans who aren’t from Cuba, communism is largely irrelevant these days except as a right wing attack line.  And the more abstract something is for people, the easier it is to turn it into something else.

    Just a reminder, what people tend to refer to here as “Cubans” are typically middle/upper class “white” Cubans who mostly reside in Florida. Many of their families started leaving Cuba before Castro took over.  There are also Brown/Black Cubans (the majority of the population of Cuba), who mostly reside in and around NYC rather than Florida.  The politics of the latter are quite different, they are not staunchly anti-communist, seeing Castro as having made education and medical care available to them for the first time. The ones I know all vote Democratic.

  97. 97.

    beckya57

    @Baud:

    I get your point, but don’t agree in this context.  Congress has long since handed control of foreign policy to the executive branch, which is in itself a huge problem.  As I said, all a president would need to do is refuse to send troops (as is his prerogative as Commander in Chief) to defend another NATO member, and I think it’s pretty obvious that’s what Trump would do.  My reaction was a bit overheated—I get what Kaine’s trying to do—but IMHO this is a real closing-the-door-after-the-horse-has-escaped situation.

  98. 98.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Frank Wilhoit: ​

    The Constitution says a LOT of stuff that it doesn’t say how to enforce and that, in fact, there is no way to enforce.

    For instance, we had the recent example of the emoluments clause.​

  100. 100.

    beckya57

    @Another Scott:

    Somehow I doubt Trump would be overly concerned about those niceties.  You’re right about hypotheticals in general, but I don’t think this one is hard.  If he gets back into power he can order the military not to send troops, in the CofC role, and there’s really no way that I see to stop him.

  101. 101.

    Another Scott

    @Frank Wilhoit: @Citizen Alan: @lowtechcyclist:

    [eta] and @beckya57:

    Sure. If people break their oaths and do all the rest of the bad things, then there’s no supreme body to make them do their jobs and stop them from doing the rest of the bad things.

    Human institutions depend on humans to defend them. Words on a page cannot substitute for humans doing their jobs.

    But the words on the page are important and worth defending, even if we haven’t done so in many occasions in the past.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  102. 102.

    Ken

    @Geminid: Then it will be up to the House. They don’t plan to meet until after New Year’s.

    “[The President] may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them” — Article II, Section 2

    How that would interact with the House’s own rules of order is a different question. For example, if he convenes the House and the Republicans refuse to come, could the Democrats who show up pass any bills?  They might have to vacate the Speaker and elect a new one first, but I understand that’s pretty easy under the current rules….

  103. 103.

    Omnes Omnibus

    The Ukraine funding and the NATO guaranties in the NDAA are good things.  They aren’t enough, but, fuck me to tears people, they help.  Don’t shit on them.  The Ukraine funding buys time for a real funding bill.  It’s money that wasn’t there yesterday.  It’s money that people said wasn’t going to appear.  The NATO guaranties are a marker to fellow NATO members that it’s more than just the administration that believes in NATO.

  105. 105.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @zhena gogolia: I just want my objections on record.  People will do what they want.  I’ll probably piss off to watch The Crown shortly.  Also, Archie on Prime comes highly recommended by Valdivia.

  106. 106.

    WaterGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: President Obama understood the art of working for what’s possible in any given situation, and so does President Biden.

    It appears that not everyone understands that, or at least not everyone accepts that.  Glad that there are good people in government right now, following that principle, that are working their assess off.  For which I am truly grateful.

  107. 107.

    Steeplejack

    @Miss Bianca:

    It is very funny and touching. Might be a bit “of its time,” judging by this mediocre trailer, which at least conveys some of the vibe. The setup is that the gay couple enlists their rude, punk tenant to pose as the nice-girl fiancée to fool the parents visiting from Taiwan. Hilarity ensues, of course.

  109. 109.

    SteverinoCT

    @wjca:

    For that matter, watch the “Honey Bun” number in South Pacific.

     

    My wife and I went to a Halloween party as that— she wore my dress whites with a double neckerchief, and I with a coconut bra (over a t-shirt) and grass skirt. No one got it; for that matter, neither did my wife! Not into old musicals, but she humored me.

  112. 112.

    RaflW

    @Another Scott: Along that line, passing this NATO withdrawal requirement does, IMO, matter. With out it, I’d see Rump signing a withdrawal order as part of his crazed/dictatorial “day one” strategy (yes, he is not so addled that he doesn’t have some elements of strategy. And henchmen).

    Passing this means that he can’t just yank the rug out from Europe as a destabilization attack if (and g-d help me that isn’t coming. I’m not dooming, I’m gaming out why I think this matters) he slithers into the White House.

    Yes, one can imagine a moment when Nikki Haley might have drunk enough isolationist koolaide that, as CiC, she might refuse to mobilize US forces and do great damage to the treaty agreements. That’s still a problem this bill doesn’t solve.

    But it stops – or certainly slows – what I think is a real short fingered vulgarian threat to ditch NATO as a preemptive move.

    eta: Also what Omnes said a bit upthread.

  114. 114.

    wjca

    @Citizen Alan: That sound you hear is every Native American tribal member in the country laughing at you.

    Ah, but did they ever take the government to court to force it to abide by the treaties?

  115. 115.

    Glidwrith

    @Another Scott: And yet, SFB unilaterally pulled us out of the Paris Accords and the Iranian treaty, so despite being the law of the land, treaties are toilet paper if a President is so inclined.

    Yes, I’m still bitter that so much work went into those treaties and that unmentionable skid mark just casually destroyed them.

  116. 116.

    Lyrebird

    @Steeplejack: @oldster: Wedding Banquet is AMAZING and yeah no I have no idea whether the blurb writer actually watched the movie – they bill it as a lighthearted comedy when it is full of family stress.  Also, the actual banquet and party scenes could be disturbing.

    Trying to avoid spoilers.

    For me, there is a red envelope scene that has the genius of of the movie all wrapped up in one moment.

    Have either of you watched Pushing Hands?  Ang Lee is brilliant, but some of his movies are effing stressful, I want a review before I watch that one.

  117. 117.

    Fake Irishman

    @Glidwrith:

    The US never formally left the Paris.  Accords. Trump gave notice that we would, but Biden got into office and cancelled that notice. (Elections matter, even when you mess up the one before)

    I’d also add that the NATO legislation matters even if Trump could effectively not honor article V commitments. Remaining formally in the alliance gives the US a road back when another administration gets in without having to ratify the original treaty again. That strikes me as rather important.

  118. 118.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Glidwrith: The Paris Climate Accords and the JCPOA limiting Iran’s nuclear program were not treaties, but rather were executive agreements.

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @Ken: Even if the President could force the House back into session during the next two weeks, he can’t make them pass the Ukraine funding package. People will just have to put up with the uncertainty for another 20 days.

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