Attorney General Merrick Garland Speaks:
WATCH: Attorney General Garland speaks as U.S. marks three years since Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol pic.twitter.com/Hjil7rSHDp
— MSNBC (@MSNBC) January 5, 2024
At the time, we had no idea how close we came to nearly losing everything.
Open thread.
schrodingers_cat
I watched the events unfold on Twitter. I was working on the accounting of one of the non-profits for which I was the Treasurer. I was horrified beyond belief. Every time I think that the Orange Beast can’t get worse he manages to exceed my expectations.
schrodingers_cat
The Republican lawmakers who participated in Trump’s attempted and failed coup haven’t been punished yet.
Spanky
Appropriate that Mr. Garland’s words were interrupted by sirens.
zhena gogolia
I was oblivious, waiting in the parking lot of the dermatologist for an hour and a half (Covid procedures). Finally I got to my office and saw Cheryl Rofer’s “Welp” post. I was a basket case for the rest of the day. But I’m glad I was spared the moment-by-moment for the worst part of it.
Jackie
Some of us wondered about President Biden’s tie he was wearing during his speech yesterday. I thought it was beautiful; crisp red white and blue, yet at the same time, understated.
It’s a Beau Biden Foundation tie. I hope he wears it often.
ooops here’s the link: https://secure.qgiv.com/event/bbfstore/store/
raven
I watched every minute of it including when nutcase Ashli Babbitt got herself killed.
WaterGirl
@raven: I watched it all, too. In disbelief and horror. But I still had faith that it was only a matter of time before we got it under control.
I had not idea of the layers upon layers of their planning. I had no idea that it was literally a coup attempt.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Yep I saw them break into the Capitol. I used to live in MD suburbs of DC and the Capitol is not that easy to get into. I was in shock.
Denali5
And yet the person responsible is not in jail. How can this be?
dmsilev
I forget exactly how I first heard of what was happening. I know where I was though; in the lab, talking with one of my students. We got the news, pulled up a CNN feed on one of the computers, and basically kept glancing over to that for the rest of the day.
Eerily similar to my where-were-you on 9/11. That was when _I_ was the grad student and was in my advisor’s office talking with him about something or another; his wife called him with the news, and we tried to pull up some coverage on the web, but every news-related site had crashed from being overloaded. Down to the lab where we had a radio.
JPL
My stomach is tied into knots today knowing what it is we have to lose. \
Mitch convinced republicans not to impeach trump because the courts would take care of it. It’s always comes down to Mitch.
Jeffg166
Would we have lost everything? Would everyone shrug their shoulders and say there’s nothing to be done? I have a feeling there would have been a large push back on the left. I wouldn’t go quietly to the camps.
Layer8Problem
@Jeffg166: Agreed. I would like to believe a successful insurrection would not have ended with “CHECKMATE, LIBTARDS! GAME OVER!” I mean I know we’re all sheep out here but even with an imposition of martial law there would have been more than a few members of the military from E-1 to O-10 saying “Fuck this shit. I don’t do illegal orders”, and a lot of common citizenry saying “Screw this, I’m joining the general strike”, and a lot of federal and blue state courts saying “You guys get to pick and choose what’s legal and what isn’t? Goes both ways, chief.”
Needless to say, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. And it’s really easy to be brave talking about a hypothetical.
Alison Rose
At the time, I was still working and of course all of us office folks were working from home. My coworker called me with a question and then she was like “WTF I can’t believe we have to sit here taking orders while this is happening” and we just ignored work for a bit and stayed on the phone together watching stuff on Twitter. It was so surreal. I heard from one of the employees in the warehouse that they spent most of the day hovering around their phones. It honestly almost felt like they should have just let everyone off early, because none of us could really concentrate. And when I did take calls, it was all I could do not to scream at people WHY ARE YOU ORDERING GARDENING TOOLS FOR YOUR CHILD WHEN THERE IS A COUP HAPPENING.
Alison Rose
@Denali5: Ain’t that America.
Another Scott
BlueVirginia.US has a good selection of tweets from a local perspective. It’s a good reminder that every local / state seat matters too. We can never be complacent when it comes to elections.
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
I have no doubt had the mob been able to nab Pelosi or Pence, they would have been killed. Maybe that’s what trump was hoping.
JoyceH
I watched the whole thing on television. I’d turned on the tv to watch the glorious certification of the End of Trump and they kept cutting away to the rally. Two main memories:
First was seeing some guys climb scaffolding to the roof to run down the American flag and replace it with a Trump flag. Could scarcely believe what I was seeing. (This is why I burst into tears watching the inauguration when Lady Gaga got to the “gave proof through the night “ bit of the Anthem, since it was the first time in our lifetime that there was even a question of whether “our flag was still there”.)
The other was the bunch of thugs roaming the halls with that one sicko crooning, “Naancy, ohhh Naaaaancy – we’re comin’ for you Nancy!”, in that mocking singsong, sounding exactly like every psycho stalker-killer in every Woman In Jep movie of the week ever filmed. Because that’s when it hit me – these guys know they’re the villains. They KNOW.
FastEdD
@JPL: Mitch told us we didn’t have to impeach because the courts would take care of it. Now in court we are being told that nothing can be done because he wasn’t impeached. Nice gig if you can get it.
Wag
I was in clinic seeing patients and between each patient I was glued to my computer screen watching the unfolding craziness.
narya
I had probably dropped into this place (which I did occasionally while working, esp. WFH) and then turned on the TV. I never watch TV during the day, so would not have otherwise known. And the more I hear from Nancy Pelosi, the more I am impressed by her; I saw a bit of the HBO special and, damn, she just was absolutely resolute. She did an interview w/ Hillary on the latter’s podcast (“You and Me Both”), before the J6 committee was even formed, and it was also amazing.
TBone
@Jackie: thank you for that, I had no idea. Gonna buy sumthin’ soon. There’s a cookbook!
Wag
@JPL:
Undoubtedly correct. The murder of either of them would have given him the perfect excuse to invoke the Insurrection Act.
pat
We got emails from friends in Austria, horrified at what they were seeing in real time! We were glued to the TV all day.
The repukes who deny this ought to be prosecuted for supporting a coup against the US.
Nukular Biskits
Not that I expect much more than a boilerplate response, but I will be sending an email (actually, filling out the stupid form on their respective websites) asking each member of my congressional delegation if they agree with President Biden about 06JAN2023 and, if so, why the are on record as supporting Donald Trump.
To wit, this:
Mississippi Today: Most Mississippi statewide Republicans endorse Donald Trump for president
Harrison Wesley
Just saw a headline over at MSN advising that DeSantis wants to keep Joe Biden off the ballot in Florida. That’s all I read; I don’t need that much aggressive stupidity this early in the weekend.
pat
@Harrison Wesley:
And here we go. Is there any doubt that this will start an endless tit-for-tat with the repukes? If the Dems can do it, so can we hahahaha…. Just look at the Biden impeachment nonsense right now. I don’t see this ending with any sort of satisfactory solution.
TBone
@Harrison Wesley: let’s see them try to “disqualify” the SITTING PRESIDENT – what a pretzel factory!
Timill
@Nukular Biskits: 06JAN2021 not 2023??
Mr. Bemused Senior
Let me expand on Alison’s brief response. A great deal of wrongdoing has gone unpunished. I think back to the George W. Bush administration. I’m sure you can all cite the many examples, I won’t enumerate them.
In the most recent TPM podcast Josh Marshall and Kate Riga spoke with Heather Cox Richardson, professor of history at Boston College. They discussed the historical roots of “how we got here,” documented in her recent book Democracy Awakening: Notes on the State of America. The lack of consequences for wrongdoing goes back a long way.
oldgold
I am not so sure Garland is a to be saluted for his handling of this. It was not until November 18, 2022 that Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel. At a minimum 12 months too late. Had Garland acted with due dispatch, we would not be racing the clock to save the Republic.
WaterGirl
@JPL: I agree with you. AOC, also.
gene108
Growing up, I was taught that the continuous and relatively peaceful transfer of power over two hundred plus years made America unique from so many other countries.
For all the divisions that could lead to government toppling revolutions in more repressive countries, the USA’s guarantees of freedom of religion, assembly, press, electing government officers, etc. allowed the country to adapt rather than crumble under social pressure.
I thought these were things the vast majority of people here took pride in, but J6 showed I was wrong. A large portion of this country would trade those freedoms and stability in for some sort of herrenvolk democracy with their interests unquestionably on top, with fucking Donald Trump as the unquestioned Dear Leader.
I lost a lot of faith with a large section of this country.
Chief Oshkosh
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Yep. The US has a long, long history of not holding the rich and powerful responsible. All of the Confederate leaders, elected and military, should’ve been paupered after serving a decades-long prison sentences. It wasn’t like they were needed for rebuilding the South.
It’s been an expensive luxury to “look forward, not back” or to “go high when they go low.” It’s pretty to think so, but it teaches all the wrong lessons.
Apply the law. To everyone. Hold miscreants responsible. A nice bonus is that we’d likely get faster justice reform as rich and middle-class white people start finding out after fucking around.
TBone
Luttig is on Velshi KILLING IT.
gene108
@pat:
The majority of the younger generations of white people in Republican areas start voting for Democrats. That’s the only demographic shift that matters. Republicans couldn’t win another election anywhere. They’d have to reform or be a powerless rump party.
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Also, I have no doubt AOC would have experienced…something else first. Because I’d bet everything I own that a majority of the men who took part in this shit have committed at least a few sexual assaults of various types in their past, present, and future.
Chief Oshkosh
@gene108:
The response to the pandemic by these fuckheads is when I started realizing that a large section of Americans have something seriously wrong with their cognitive processes. The J6 insurrection and aftermath was the cherry on top.
ETA: Actually, no. To correct myself: The election of Trump was when I started realizing that a large section of Americans have something seriously wrong with their cognitive processes.
ETA2: Actually, no. To correct myself: The response to 9/11 and Iraq War was when I started realizing that a large section of Americans have something seriously wrong with their cognitive processes.
dirge
There was a ton of investigative activity prior to that appointment, which was made in response to a specific circumstance (forget what) implicating political independence. I also think Garland could and should have moved faster, but I’m not a prosecutor and I wasn’t there. In any case, it’s wrong to imply he was just sitting on his hands until Nov 22.
piratedan
@gene108: I feel very much the same and my faith in certain American institutions has been strained to the breaking point…. things like…
the media attempting to call this anything but what it was and to address the implications of what took place
the fact that the FBI had to crowd source the identification of those attacking the Capitol
That selected members of LEO and the Military were quite sympathetic in their actions
That the DOJ has not been able to drive a stake thru the heart of the conspiracy (and lets face it, these guys doing the coup thing may have a low criminal cunning and a lotta cash but they are NOT smart).
the GOP itself still having faith or taking instruction on keeping the coup/conspiracy a thing.
I get that getting Trump is a big Biden deal, but there are multitudes of other key players out there untouched and still trying to pull this shit off.
Paul in KY
@raven: I missed that. Wish I had watched it.
gene108
@Chief Oshkosh:
It was the 2016 election for me and the fact Trump squeaked in. I’m not surprised racist shit heels lined up behind Trump after his announcement speech and Trump won the Republican nomination. His announcement speech had him ahead in most polls and it didn’t change much.
It’s the supplication of the rest of the Republican Party and Republican voters before Trump, and they’re joining the Trump cult that broke me. Ambitious politicians sacrificing their careers to blindly follow Trump’s cult of personality, where what he said is always right.
Jackie
@raven: There was also the MAGA woman who was trampled to death during the initial surge when the Capitol was breached. She isn’t mentioned anymore for whatever reason.
wenchacha
I watched and texted my husband, who was at work. I told him about people scaling the walls. At the time, it was reminiscent of a zombie movie or something
Did someone on that day already point out the formation of PBs or whomever, hands on the next guy’s shoulder, snaking.theirway up the steps.
I still wonder: how many foreign intelligence agents got inside with them on that day? I don’t ever hear any discussions about that. Still, if you were a deep cover spy in DC, it would be a golden opportunity, I would think.
Maybe they stayed away, not wanting to be caught in a net, but still. Those coup de twats broke open the Capitol to any and all enemies.
JoyceH
@Chief Oshkosh: Honestly, I think the next pandemic will save the nation. So many of the red states passed laws outlawing mask mandates and vaccine mandates that come the next time, the red to blue death gap is going to be so significant that all the gerrymandering in the world won’t save the GOP.
Paul in KY
@Chief Oshkosh: ‘All of the Confederate leaders, elected and military, should’ve been paupered’…they should have been hanged. Their families paupered.
wenchacha
@JoyceH: Lady Gaga made me catch my breath, too. That was a real moment.
zhena gogolia
@TBone: Can you say more? He’s so slow-talking, I have trouble imagining him KILLING IT!
wenchacha
@Chief Oshkosh: For me it was when a large portion elected, then re-elected Reagan.
TBone
Wenchacha “Coup de twat” just made my day 🤣
TBone
@zhena gogolia: I’ll have to find a transcript. He’s not fucking around.
Starfish
Can we have a lighter thread that is not “here, tell us more about the anniversary of a still unresolved traumatic event.”
zhena gogolia
@Starfish: It’s kind of ruined Epiphany forever.
gene108
@piratedan:
They can try, but without a narcissist like Trump wanting a coup to happen and marshaling people to make it happen all their plots and tricks will fall apart. The rest of the coup plotters in Congress, right-wing special interests, etc. cannot do this without a leader who cares about nothing but staying in power.
They are trying less blatant ways to achieve a takeover by trying to promote the idea a state legislature can independently decide which candidate gets the state’s EV votes, for example, or using the courts to whittle away at voting rights, etc.
That’s short of a J6 coup.
Kelly
@Chief Oshkosh: Iraq war 2 was where I realized how many of my fellow Americans were idiots. Trump 2016 hammered the point home. In retrospect the nutcase response to the covid was predictable given the nutcase response to climate change.
In spite of all that came before Jan 6 and the antifa/FBI conspiracy theories are staggering.
Bupalos
I think we need to find a way to keep the threat to democracy top of mind without slipping into micro-focused inflated binaries. We didn’t “almost lose it all” on Jan 6. Relatedly, if and when Trump wins another term, it’s not “the end of democracy.” And democracy isn’t safe if Biden wins. Democracy has a lot of institutional and cultural strength in the U.S., which will give us the time and opportunity to battle these threats. Threats which will keep coming as long as so much of the citizenry feels destabilized, fearful, and paranoid, and social trust continues to decline.
Starfish
@Jackie:
Oh, this one is super interesting. CNN says that though it was initially reported that she was crushed to death, it may have been a drug overdose.
scav
Trump being Trump, winning over Iowans being Iowans.
Trump tells Iowans to ‘get over’ school shooting at campaign event
In short, wheeeeee. They still are who they are.
oldgold
@dirge: This is a good clue that Garland moved way too slow. We are in great danger of not trying the matter of interfering with the presidential election process before the next presidential election takes place – four damn years later.
Generally speaking, I think Garland was a poor choice, given the totality of the circumstances, to be Attorney General.
Starfish
@zhena gogolia: Oh wow!
I never thought about that. MAGA is out here ruining religious days for Christians.
BC in Illinois
I’m retired, so I could watch the whole thing three years ago, beginning to end.
I had printed up a list of states and electoral votes, so that I could check off the running total. I watched the whole attack and never left the TV until sometime in the morning when the final votes were tallied and the election announced.
We can’t rest until Trump is defeated again, and finally, and resoundingly.
Bupalos
@JoyceH: That’s….not how it works. Anti-democratic threats increase with misery and destabilization. And with folks wishing death on their fellow citizens.
TeezySkeezy
@Layer8Problem: Accurate on every point. We would def get our hair mussed.
Frankensteinbeck
@gene108:
Didn’t surprise me at all. Once he was clearly the nominee, contradicting Trump meant siding with liberals. Even for mainstream Republicans, since Nov 4 2008 it has been Total War. Their voters sure feel that way.
Alison Rose
@scav: He should go see the parents of the child who was killed and tell them to their faces “get over it”. Maybe while tied to a lamppost with his arms behind his back so they can pummel the shit out of him afterward.
Jackie
@TBone: Yes, I plan to browse the cookbook.
It is so Biden to have a memory of Beau “with him” for his speech, a long with his bracelet.
AliceBlue
@zhena gogolia: I remember how over the moon I was the night before–January 5 was the runoff election day in Georgia and Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock won. My joy ended in a hard crash the next day.
Jackie
@Harrison Wesley: Never mind; misread.🤦🏼♀️
BC in Illinois
@zhena gogolia:
For my family, the date has an additional misfortune. Today is the birthday of granddaughter number three. (Our third teenaged g’kid.) Hopefully as years go by, it won’t be in the headlines every year.
On the other hand, her parents were married on the day commemorating the slaughter of the Holy Innocents of Bethlehem, and they seem to have put that behind them.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
Every time I think that the Orange Beast can’t get worse he manages to exceed my expectations.
I expect only negative anything from him, because he is a completely negative person. In every possible measurable way, he is a negative person. He is, if you believe in a deity, the exact opposite. He gives not one single damn about anyone else, starting with his family and ending with the rest of humanity. He believes that the rules are to give him a leg up and only apply to every other human on the planet. His value in human terms is the exact opposite of every dollar he has ever had in his possession. IOW, in human terms he isn’t worth doodly squat. And all the money in the world never has and never will change that.
Alison Rose
@BC in Illinois: My friend Cecilia can sympathize. Her birthday is September 11.
Nukular Biskits
@Timill:
Dammit! And I can’t blame Autocorrect for that mistake.
Thanks for the catch.
Baud
@Harrison Wesley:
“If I can’t be on it, neither can Joe.”
Jackie
@oldgold: If I remember correctly, Garland appointed Smith AFTER classified documents were found at Biden’s home? Until that point, he probably didn’t think he needed to appoint a SC.
Thor Heyerdahl
@oldgold: There was likely a thick layer of shitty Trump moles in the DOJ when he started. He took the course of action he did – and made sure he was not going to be hijacked from inside the DOJ.
Jack Smith likely had employment obligations at the International Criminal Court that had to be wound up professionally.
Do the timelines suck? Sure. Is it all because of Garland? Definitely not.
BellaPea
I am retired and on 1/06/21 I just happened to have MSNBC on the TV while housecleaning. When I heard the ruckus, I stopped everything to watch. I was in tears, the whole day. I still cannot believe that such a terrible event happened and that many of the participants–and instigators–are still walking free, including the Orange Fathead.
Bupalos
@Alison Rose: maybe they were prepping for a social cataclysm! Going to need tools for when the Magats ban Brocolli.
Baud
@Starfish:
So you’re saying you had an epiphany?
Citizen Alan
@JPL:
Agreed. My fear was that enough democratsic reps and senators would be outright killed to throw control of government to the Traitor Party long enough to install Shitgibbon for a second term and then pass laws to make it legal.
Kirk
@Nukular Biskits: If you can’t blame autocorrect, blame FYWP. Who’s gonna know, right? (grin)
Alison Rose
@Baud: Go sit in the corner.
Betty Cracker
Excellent breaking news: Today the FBI busted three Florida insurrectionists who’ve been on the lam for most of the last year. They had been charged with serious crimes (attacking cops with objects and chemical agents, etc.) and were released on house arrest. They cut their electronic monitors off and skedaddled, and today the feds rolled them up. How fitting!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Bupalos:
While I agree the attacks will probably continue at some level if Biden wins, I disagree with you that a hypothetical Trump win will not automatically mean “the end of democracy”. There’s Project 2025 where Trump/any Republican will gut the federal government of anyone who opposes them and replace them with lackeys. He also plans to invoke the Insurrection Act on Day 1. It will mean a dictatorship
Lyrebird
@Nukular Biskits: Hat off to ya for keeping up the fight!
Ruckus
@Denali5:
The wheels of justice grind very slowly. And they should because throughout time when they don’t, innocent people are hurt. Yes we want people responsible for their misdeeds to pay the proper price. But we have to remember that we are not deities, we all are capable of horrible, if we don’t take reasonable time and care to charge and find guilt or innocence and give a reasonable and responsible human penalty for and separate into high crimes and misdemeanors, we are no better than the guilty. Yes, it takes longer, but in the even longer term it is far better for all of us.
Citizen Alan
@Nukular Biskits:
I did not talk with my RWNJ sister about it at Christmas (thank god), But back in the spring she thought Trump was too old (that was literally her only objection to him) and was fully supporting Desantis. Since the meatball has self destructive, I have no idea who she supports now.
horatius
@oldgold: Agreed. Jack Smith was a better choice.
oldgold
@Thor Heyerdahl: Why wait for Jack Smith? The DOJ has over 10,000 lawyers. Surely, amongst them is the equal or better of Jack Smith. The sad truth is Garland did not give this the priority it so clearly demanded and as a consequence we are in a race to save the Republic.
dirge
True, and a huge problem, obviously.
Valid opinion. I’m not thrilled either. But it’s not at all clear the degree to which the aforementioned problem is straightforwardly a consequence of Garland’s personal failures, versus a consequence of institutional constraints that any other attorney general would have encountered. I’m inclined to believe there’s rather a lot of the latter, and a fixation on the former obscures the systemic issues.
That’s all just a difference of opinion or emphasis, though. Barely a disagreement. The thing I actually object to is the implication that the investigation only started with Jack Smith’s appointment, which is misleading.
Citizen Alan
@Chief Oshkosh: I worried that something had fundamentally broken in this country after 9/11. But I didn’t fully lose faith in the country. Until two thousand and four, when w was re elected, despite four years of groups incompetence at every level. Had my mother and father both been deceased by that point, I would have left the country. I had actually started the process for immigration to canada. But they were both still alive. And my dad was in poor health, and so my mother was able to guilt for me into staying. Then, 4 years later, the crash of 2008 cause me to blow through my savings. And now, between lack of funds and aging, emigration was out of the question.
Citizen Alan
@Jackie: They couldn’t blame her death on a black man.
citizen dave
@Chief Oshkosh: We’re all of a mind here, but sometimes a jackal crystallizes exactly what and how I think. You did that with this list. Thanks.
Lyrebird
@Betty Cracker: That is so awesome!
Also my email feed tells me that Officer Harry Dunn is running for Congress!
They need to get that other outspoken officer who sends me emails for Schiff, Sgt. Aquilino Gonell, who I believe is fully fluent in Spanish, to go talk to the Trump-loving Venezuelan Americans of Florida. He’s from the DR, not sure how that would be taken, but he’s a war veteran from even before he risked his life defending our democracy.
Citizen Alan
@Alison Rose: Isn’t that basically what he told the grieving widow of a soldier who was left behind and killed in a botched operation barely a month after he was inaugurated?
oldgold
@dirge: You are correct there was an investigation before Smith’s appointment, but it lacked urgency and focus. Hence, we are where we are at today – racing the damn clock.
sab
@zhena gogolia: My husband at 12:05 slapped his head and said he had just had an epiphany, that today was the anniversary. He was kind of embarrassed. He’d been reading all day about Jan 6 and the capitol storming, and hadn’t made the connection that today is the 6th.
The joys of retirement when you don’t need to know what day it is.
Also too, dim bulb on a dark night, as my dad would have said.
ARoomWithAMoose
@Betty Cracker: These idiots were also on the young side. From https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2022/investigations/tampa-bay-trump-voters-capitol-rioters-jail-arrests-sentenced/
“Joshua Doolin said he saw the Jan. 6 rally as a vacation with a chance to see the president speak and show support. Surrounded by family and childhood friends from his native Lakeland, he said he had no idea they’d go to the Capitol.
Prosecutors allege Doolin, 24; his cousins, Jonathan Pollock, 23 and Olivia Pollock, 31; and friends, Joseph Daniel Hutchinson III, 26, and Michael Perkins were part of a group that fought with police for hours on the Capitol steps.”
I know there’s a selection for rioters needing to be able bodied enough to actually, you know, riot, but the the younger a whackos that these fascists attracted to their cause was unsettling.
WaterGirl
@oldgold: That is simply not true. If you mistakenly believe what you are saying, you are still spreading lies. Do some research on the facts, and then get back to us.
There was a lot happening at the DOJ long before Jack Smith was appointed. Some of the attempts were blocked by high-ranking FBI people who were/are in the Trump camp.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@oldgold:
Are you a lawyer? Do you work for the DOJ? How do you know it “lacked urgency and focus”, whatever that’s supposed to mean?
Kelly
September 2020 we fled Oregon’s Labor Day fires. Flushed from our haven into the plague infested world. Our home made it but half the neighborhood and my brother’s home burned down. Local nutcases believed Antifa set the fires. The November vote counting dragged on. We eventually lost our Congressional seat to a Republican. Shit. Biden won hurrah! What the fuck is going on in Georgia? We won both Georgia Senate seats, hurrah! Jan 6 WTF!!!
Biden is inaugurated. At last I can uncurl from my fetal position. Honestly I was emotionally a mess from Sept 2020 until the inauguration.
Starfish
@Baud: 🤣 You are my favorite. Don’t tell the other Balloon Juicers I said that though.
scav
@Chief Oshkosh: Yup. The response to Guantanamo was another memorable bump down in my estimation of their moral worth. I’d personally had suspicions as to cognitive abilities earlier, but your stages hit the critical moments — and my realizations involved both the cognitive and ethical makeup of sad citizens.
JPL
@WaterGirl: That’s what I think. The first priority was to clean shop and rid the DOJ of the partisan hacks.
Sure Lurkalot
@scav: Think Trump’s “get over it” was bad? Here’s Nikki (from the Des Moines Register):
Her solution:
They are all sick fucks about guns and shootings.
Hungry Joe
Can’t remember why I turned on the TV, but for the first couple of hours I totally misread the situation — it looked to me like a bunch of yahoos had simply overwhelmed the police and were now strolling through the Capitol. I was rolling my eyes, thinking “Fer crissakes, get those idiots out of there so Congress can do its job.” Gradually more and more scenes of violence were shown. Eventually I started saying, “Holy shit, this is SERIOUS.” Slow on the uptake, I am
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: 👏🏻👏🏻
Ruckus
@oldgold:
Is it better to rush in or is it better to get it right?
Yes, I wanted the people trying to steal our government and country to be tried and punished. But of course there is that old saying – “Only fools rush in.”
This was unprecedented in our country, where we are supposed to have a democracy, a government of, by and for all the citizens. Having a completely irresponsible asswipe in the highest office was a first. But jumping in and not taking the responsible effort and time to legally deal with this really would not have been better. We have to believe that, otherwise we are not the country we are supposed to be. Yes it can seem wrong to not jump in and fix everything, but that is what SFB was actually trying to do, jump in and keep his dumb ass in power. This is, while different in exact details, was a coup. And while I believe the leader of the coup was and is an idiot, we should not be. We have to be deliberate, careful and abide by the laws and systems that provide us those freedoms by not just reacting but by reacting within the laws and restrictions that bind us.
Stacy
“Well I guess you know he knew what he was signing up for, but it still hurts” Trump to Myeshia Johnson, widow of Sgt. La David Johnson killed in Niger in 2017. Echoes what he said in Iowa. In Trump’s mind those poor children are like our fallen soldiers, “suckers and losers.”
dirge
Thanks. It’s important to be clear about the facts.
Seemed that way to me too, but I’m a little less confident about my ability to assess what’s going on inside a necessarily secretive DOJ investigation, whether mistakes were made, and if so by whom.
Yeah, that sucks.
Jackie
@Citizen Alan: His exact words to the grieving widow was, “He knew what he was signing up for.”
I was appalled then; still appalled today.😤
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
You can’t hear it but I’m applauding this comment!
If you could see me I’d actually stand up to applaud.
Kelly
@Hungry Joe: I didn’t realize the scale of the fighting or suspect the preparations. Figured it was the sort of yahoos that get in to recreational bar fights gathered together and the whole thing got out of hand.
Mike in NC
“Just get over it” is a variation of what Trump said to every woman he ever sexually assaulted.
Layer8Problem
One of the encouraging things about all the successful prosecutions of January 6th types is that it puts them on notice that “fuck around and find out”, for the time being at least, still works. These guys, the Proud Boys and the 3%ers and Bannon and Roger Stone, were all convinced they had a plan and that it was just gonna be execute plan, collect dictatorship, with no possibility of blowback so no need to have a plan B or escape route to Argentina. Bannon and Stone got pardoned; somehow President Dealmaker-I-Make-the-Best-Deals couldn’t pardon anybody else. The bar is higher now; loud malcontents recognize that FAFO might still be in play the next time they try something and that prisons aren’t nearly as glamorous or fun as TV makes them out to be.
WaterGirl
@Starfish: Lighter thread is up!
TBone
@Betty Cracker: hooray!
Kirk
Something I’ve observed is that most attorneys general, unlike Sessions and Barr, keep their cards very close to their chests. There’s this desire to actually investigate as opposed to staying in the news cycle.
I also observe through history that large, complex prosecutions against organized crime takes time. First, there’s the requirement to sustain the rights of those under investigation – both because it’s right, and because if that’s failed the case will be made worthless due to the violations. There’s also the need to winnow the wheat from the chaff. Add to this the already noted points above that the justice system was riddled with what should be called moles – individuals in protected positions cooperating with and reporting to the target(s) of the investigation. And of course, avoiding the temptation for easy quick wins that allow the real targets opportunity to escape.
No, based on what Jack Smith was able to do so quickly after he was appointed I believe there was effective investigation going on. It’s just Mr. Garland had no desire – and in fact in interest in avoiding – keeping his ego fed by being on the news circuit bragging about how well the investigation was progressing.
But since I, too, am not in the circles that would know the truth I have to admit that’s my opinion. so take it with what weight you wish.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Excellent news!
Layer8Problem
@Ruckus: “The problem with Omnes, see, is that Omnes never says we’re all DOOOMED!” //
I’ll trust those versed in the law over the “Biden/Garland/Jack Smith didn’t do this one weird trick I just thought up, so they don’t care” crowd. Get the tees crossed and the eyes dotted.
Ruckus
@piratedan:
One of the things of an actually free democracy is that we really do have to take time to get the parts of running a democracy correctly. Our reactions to this must be measured, within the bounds of the laws and normal actions, and that takes time and cannot be rushed.
There will always be trumps and their ilk. It’s humanity. We have something here, a country that is ours and rushing in to judgement and punishment often misses the mark, sometimes in massively bad ways. Donald Trump, aka ShitForBrains, tried to overthrow OUR government. Fortunately he actually has shit for brains or he might have succeeded. But that also doesn’t mean we should rush in and punish without doing it properly, lawfully and that takes time.
We have to get it right, and time is one of the costs of doing that.
TBone
@Kelly: holy hell. Glad you’re here.
SiubhanDuinne
@wenchacha:
Stealing.
UncleEbeneezer
@dirge: At this point “The Investigation didn’t start until Smith’s appointment” is a Truism on par with “the Civil War was about State’s Rights.” No matter how many stories come out debunking it, showing the actual reasons fo the slow movement (Trump loyalists in DOJ and FBI mucking up the works), showing all the moves that were set in motion the day that Lisa Monaco was confirmed etc., people will just ignore them. There’s still a hell of a lot we don’t know about the challenges of trying to simultaneously pursue justice, clean out DOJ, clean out the FBI and do so while GOP Senators refused to confirm the US Attorneys needed to get things moving. It’s Garland-Hater Dogma that there was One Weird Trick he could’ve done that would have avoided the countless legal and investigatory hurdles and gotten Trump in jail immediately so he must be a failure for not doing that One Weird Trick that of course, no one can ever specify.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Disappointed in the whining about Garland in this thread. Are we still doing this?
Institutionalists get blamed for institutional inertia because they acknowledge it and work through it, when others want to pretend it doesn’t exist (Green Lantern-ism).
Isn’t one of the lessons of the successes of the Biden administration that institutionalists don’t cause institutional inertia, but they sure as hell know how to work through it better than performative lightweights and loudmouths?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Kirk:
Yep – doing the work. This ain’t PR.
Kirk
I’d like to add, one of the reasons the wheels grind slow is that we hold to “It is better that ten guilty go free than that one innocent be wrongfully convicted.” The counter is, “it is better that ten innocents are wrongfully convicted than that one guilty escape justice.”
I consider it a solid mantra. Both positions suck and cause grief. But still, there I stand.
Nelle
@Mr. Bemused Senior: We’re reading it now (husband reads aloud while I crochet – sounds cozy. And it is.) It is distressingly familiar, these echoes of America’s past in America’s future. I’m grateful for how she ties it together. We just finished chapter 25, Mudsills or Men, and I had to keep checking that he was reading about the 1850’s and 1860’s, not right now.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
Will that help?
Ruckus
@sab:
The joys of retirement when you don’t need to know what day it is.
I check my phone or computer every day to see what day it is. Before I retired I didn’t need to do that because every day didn’t just roll into the next one. I used to know people long ago that would cross off every day on a calendar so they wouldn’t “forget” to go to work or the bank or…..
M31
the only thing I’ve enjoyed about the slow pace is that once the arrests did start, the MAGA treasonists had lots of time to worry whether they’d be next, and hundreds of them were. Hope they suffered.
The ones turned in by family, friends, and online-dating encounters? that’s just gravy
M31
another way to say
LEROYYYYY JENKINNNNNNNSSSSS!!!!
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: I know. People deliberately spreading misinformation on Balloon Juice is maddening.
Willfully refusing to take in actual facts and information – readily available! – because they don’t comport with the world view you chosen, that’s just embarrassing.
Jackie
@dirge: Some compare Garland’s timing to Barr’s – who jumped when TIFG said jump.
I’m curious as to how swiftly Obama’s AG or Dubya’s AG set investigations in gear? I have no idea, I never paid much, if any attention.
If we’re going to accuse Garland as slow, maybe comparing his timeframe to AGs pre TIFG’s term is worthwhile. I’m not on the Garland’s not moving fast enough train. I want all i’s dotted and t’s crossed.
oldgold
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I am an anonymous commenter. As such, I do not make “credentialed” arguments here. And, in this case there is no need to. The facts are clear. The DOJ did not give this matter, the criminal culpability of Donald J. Trump, the priority and urgency it so sorely demanded. So now, three years after the crime was committed, we race the damn clock with the Republic at stake.
dirge
Well said, and I think essentially correct.
Still, if there was ever a time to take extraordinary action to expedite an investigation, this was it, and it didn’t look like that was happening. One can legitimately hold the opinion that more should have been done, if only because it’s now very late. We just can’t know whether more could have been done, and probably won’t until a bunch of stuff is declassified a couple decades from now.
scav
Oh pish.
eclare
@Citizen Alan:
Also grossly cruel to the US rep whose husband was killed in Niger. I still wonder what our troops were doing there.
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/trump-fallen-soldier-widow/
TFG being cruel to another Black woman, gee, what are the odds?
Soprano2
I was at work, I kept clicking over to the WaPo web site and saying “WTF?” over and over. I was shocked they weren’t all arrested.
Pete Mack
Hah I say. Hah! In the Northeast, there’s been no more than a trace of snow. Tonight will make up for that, with a nor’easter. 8 inches last I checked. Fortunately this one won’t begin with rain or wintry mix. That’s an outright disaster.
Ruckus
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Yes.
Soprano2
@Harrison Wesley: They really refuse to understand that it isn’t political, it’s about him fomenting a coup!
eclare
@eclare:
I am sorry, the US rep heard the conversation, she was not the widow.
Burnspbesq
@zhena gogolia:
link to judge luttig w/velshi
https://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/-couldn-t-be-any-clearer-judge-luttig-predicts-outcome-of-scotus-trump-ballot-ruling-201473605809
wjca
Which demonstrates that these scum, and anyone who tries to emulate them in future, should be stuck behind bars from the instant they are arrested. It will lower the tone in our jails, but that’s a price worth paying.
Kelly
Same. DC has had plenty of jail space for far less violent protesters.
eclare
@Burnspbesq:
Thank you for the link.
Nelle
@Alison Rose: I’m about 30 miles away from Perry. A woman was interviewed Thursday, late morning, saying that she found her daughter but couldn’t find her son, a sixth grader. The middle school kids ate breakfast in the high school cafeteria. She said his name was Ahmir and he was having breakfast. She lamented that she couldn’t find out anything about him.
Yes, it was her son who was killed. But, now, two days later, we should get over it because it is getting in the way of Trump’s comeback?
I’ll be watching to see if Iowa press covers this at all.
Starfish
@WaterGirl: Thank you!
wjca
Because it would be just soooooo much better to have rushed forward, skipped the boring details that the law requires, and ended up with the guilty getting off scott free due to prosecutorial misconduct. Yeah, right.
Hob
@oldgold: You say “facts” but as far as I can see, the only fact you’ve referenced is that it’s 2024 and Trump hasn’t been convicted yet. You’re reasoning backward from “I haven’t seen the desired result soon enough” to “the reason is that Garland didn’t see this as urgent” with literally no steps in between. So it was reasonable for Goku to ask you whether you have some sort of insider knowledge that might account for that apparent lack of facts. You’re doing the equivalent of saying “the patient is in danger of not surviving this operation, it’s because the surgeon is incompetent”, and then when someone asks you if you know of medical reasons why it’s the surgeon’s fault and not the inherent difficulty of an operation that’s never been attempted before, your answer is “I don’t need to know, just look at how long it’s taken, clearly the surgeon doesn’t take this seriously.”
If the only point you’re making is that you wish things had ended up taking less time since this is a dangerous situation… well yeah, of course, we all wish that. But if that’s your only point, then there’s no need to pretend that you know the specific reasons why it’s taken this amount of time and that bad decisions by Garland are behind them.
eclare
@Nelle:
That is so heartbreaking. A sixth grader eating breakfast.
Layer8Problem
This justice stuff happens much, much faster on teevee.
Hob
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: “Are we still doing this?”
If by “we” you mean anyone on this page other than oldgold, no, we’re not. There’s literally one person here making this complaint. In the terms of the Internet in general then sure, there are tons of people still doing that, and I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for that to change even if Trump gets sent to prison five minutes from now— I mean, some people who are currently invested in blaming Garland would go “Well, even if I still think it could’ve been faster, at least it got done, that’s all I care about”, but there will absolutely be others who are like “It only got done because my guy Jack Smith fought valiantly against Garland [and/or Biden] who were deliberately trying to save Trump the whole time” and they will not care about any details of the investigation ever. I mean, this is the Internet. Pick any thing that you wish people would stop saying, there will literally never be a time that no one is saying it.
eclare
@Layer8Problem:
I mean, it only takes the folks on Law and Order an hour, amirite?
Nelle
@eclare: Well, if Kim Reynolds (guv) has her way, she will end all feeding programs and justify it as saving kids from obesity. Now she can add that she is saving children’s lives, since they could be killed by weapons she’s allowed to proliferate.
Snarki, child of Loki
Damn, you can even see the edge of the CAN that that fake-noose is wrapped around.
J6 morons couldn’t tie a knot correctly, but oh they wanted to make it *look* like a real knot. The lot of them should have had actual nooses demonstrated to them, with a short drop and long dangle for their treason.
TBone
@Burnspbesq: thanks, worth seeing twice IMO.
eclare
@Nelle:
I am sure. Sigh.
scav
@eclare: O! and the plucky teenagers and other amateurs solve everything ever so much faster than the dim grownups and police!
zhena gogolia
@Burnspbesq: Thanks! Watching now. He’s speeded up his delivery.
Layer8Problem
@eclare: I got a wish, and that’s when (ok, if) TFG’s properly domiciled in a Federal prison he has to listen to that Law and Order “DOINK-DOINK!” sound piped in to his cell every five minutes.
Juju
@Jackie: She was collateral damage, and who cares about collateral damage? Ayman Mohyeldin did a special about her on MSNBC a couple of years ago. She got herself looped in with the Q people and became a nutcase about it, separated herself from her family because Q and then was trampled to death. One tragic story amongst many.
Bupalos
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I don’t disagree with it being automaticalky damaging and destabilizing. But the idea that a populist authoritarian movement can ACTUALLY control the diffused machinery of democracy that we’ve grown over a century, in ways that neccesarily strike at its own perceived political legitimacy… I don’t think so. It would need to be a much longer project, and we will have opportunities to counter.
eclare
@Layer8Problem:
Hahaha…
Juju
@oldgold: When you become president you can decide who becomes Attorney General.
I don’t think it would have mattered when court cases started. Trump would have done what he always does and delay, delay, delay, and because there would have been more time, the push forward because of time issues wouldn’t have been there until they were, and we’d probably be in the same place we are now.
wjca
It’s been years since I watched it. (It just wasn’t the same without Jerry Orbach.) But my recollection is that it was usually closer to 40 minutes to the start of the trial.
Layer8Problem
@eclare:
TFG: “Screw, make it stop, will ya? It’s driving me nuts!”
Guard speaking through door slot: “Sir, and I assure you I’m saying this with tears in my eyes, that’s the sound of good old fashioned American Justice.”
Juju
@BC in Illinois: We also need to start pushing for an amendment to get rid of the electoral college. Without the electoral college none of this would happen, from the popular vote winner losing, to a sore loser trying to change the electoral vote count. It’s been A bad idea for 233 years.
Chief Oshkosh
@AliceBlue:
Actually, their wins was an abiding blessing to my outlook.
Juju
@Mike in NC: If that’s true, one would think he’d have refined his technique with all his experience.
Chief Oshkosh
@Thor Heyerdahl:
Uh…is that what they call “confirmation bias?”
UncleEbeneezer
@Kirk: This. It’s been noted thousands of times that DOJ speaks in court filings not in press conferences. It’s not DOJ policy to comment on ongoing investigations, for all the reasons you mentioned. As for the timeline, I remember former US Attorney Barb McQuade writing pretty early on that given the extent of the conspiracy, the players involved (Trump, Congressman, False Electors), the numerous privilege questions that would need to be litigated, and DOJ’s cautious/thorough approach to investigations that we shouldn’t expect charges until 2023. And that’s exactly when we ended up seeing them. She even said she understood peoples’ frustrations and would love things to move faster too, but that’s just not realistic if you understand the number of hurdles in this path. She’s not the only one with decades of experience who predicted that best case scenario would put us right about where we are now, with Trump trials just around the corner. Lord knows, if DOJ had done something foolish like charge all the other 1/6 co-conspirators (making the number of lawyers and appeals exponentially greater) it could have taken much longer and we’d have had no real shot at a trial before the next election.
Chief Oshkosh
@Betty Cracker: Best news all day. Thanks for posting!
Geminid
@Chief Oshkosh: And their wins made possible the American Recovery Act, Infrastructure and CHIPS+ bills and IRA possible. Had it not been for Georgia voters putting Warnock and Ossoff in the Senate, Joe Biden would be in a very different political position today.
Tony G
@Layer8Problem: Yes. I remember wondering on 01/06/2021 (and during the weeks leading up to that date) whether the U.S. Army and Marine Corps would really kill Americans in support of Trump. Close to half of the people in the Army and Marine Corps are non-white now. I doubt that they would have fallen in line for Trump. But would that have led to open warfare between (let’s call it what it is) fascist versus non-fascist sects of the military? Say what you will about Adolph Hitler, but he had the foresight to organize his own private armies (first the SA, then the SS), separate from the regular German Army, before he seized power. Hitler had a degree of intelligence; Trump, not so much.
Chief Oshkosh
@WaterGirl:
Not doubting you, but I’d love to read more about this. Do you have links?
Chief Oshkosh
@Ruckus: Not to pick on you or your specific comment, but in general there’s a lot of commentary here with the gist being that wrt J6 a lot was happening behind the scenes and people were busy at DOJ investigating J6 and getting rid of Trumpites, and that none of us know what was happening behind the scenes, so quit whining about Garland.
Well, it’s true that none of us knew what was happening behind the scenes. So I’m not sure how we would know that any of the above was happening to any great degree. With not much evidence to back me up, I do think that a lot was happening behind the scenes at DOJ. However, based on what members of the J6 Congressional committee said at the time, the focus needed to be on Trump and his direct advisors and it was not. It was only after some of the J6 Committee members went public with their concerns (e.g., Adam Schiff) that it seems like DOJ expanded its focus to include the top dogs, and then only very slowly. This is what I recall, but I often succumb to confirmation bias, so…big grain of salt.
Now, we of course can’t go back in time and change anything, but I do think it’s not helpful to ignore what people more in-the-know than The Jackalariot were saying about what DOJ was doing at the time.
Again, Ruckus, not picking on you or your comment – it just sparked one of my brain cells to bump into another one, and so I posted this general comment.
dirge
Funny, but we really do have a huge “justice delayed” problem, which goes way beyond this DOJ case. I don’t think we should dismiss it lightly.
Theranos imploded in Jan 2016. Elizabeth Holmes reported to jail in May 2023. Not surprising, but not really reasonable either.
That it took three years and change for Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss to get a judgement is ordinary, expected, and wholly unacceptable. How long has it taken for E Jean Carrol? And they’re going spend years more trying to collect. Not to mention every investor, contractor, and tenant he’s screwed; if he and his father hadn’t gotten away with all that, he’d still be just a small time slumlord in Queens, and a whole lot of other people would be substantially better off.
Could Garland have done anything about the sluggishness of the law, in this specific case? Maybe he missed some opportunity. Maybe there were no solutions available. Regardless, it’s a very real problem.
dirge
Your recollection of Adam Schiff’s version of events is correct. I believe that was contemporaneously echoed by a several others similarly situated.
Certainly, I take anything Schiff says seriously. But he’s only slightly better positioned than we are to know what was happening inside the DOJ. They weren’t leaking anything to him.
catclub
Really? Firing federal employees for their political views? and none of them have spoken up about this treatment? I have my doubts.
catclub
@catclub: maybe a lot of horizontal promotions/transfers.
UncleEbeneezer
@dirge: This got recently debunked. I don’t remember the details but Allison Gill mentioned it on the Jack podcast. It was recent reporting that DOJ was looking at Trump and higher-ups well before Schiff and the 1/6 Committee made this public statement/pressure. Gill even joked to Andrew McCabe something like “so are you saying that Garland’s DOJ was actually on top of this well before the Jan 6 Committee?” and he laughed and said it didn’t surprise him at all. It was in the last 2-3 episodes (either 12/24 or 12/10) if you wanna look it up. But no, Schiff’s (and other Garland critics’) claims that DOJ didn’t start investigating anyone at the top (including Trump) until X (date) have been shown to be wrong as more and more information has come out in court filings and reporting.
Jim Appleton
@WaterGirl:
The planning was unclear, but the coup/insurrection was pretty up front, as I experienced it online.
wjca
It is common, I believe, when addressing criminal enterprises (something DoJ has lots of experience with), to look at all levels of the enterprise. But focus initially on lower level members, both because the cases against them tend to be more straightforward and because some of them may be induced, when their cases are at the plea-bargaining phase, to provide material against the higher-up members.
From the outside, it can look like the leaders of the enterprise are being allowed to skate. But in fact the cases against them are being built the whole time. And you want those cases as close to bulletproof as possible. An occasional low level bad guy getting missed isn’t a disaster; but you don’t want the guys at the top to get off due to some overlooked detail.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chief Oshkosh:
This is another example where we find out that DOJ was doing something that Garland-haters claimed they weren’t. Schiff complained that DOJ wasn’t looking at the top dogs on 9/24/22. But oh look, whadaya know? They actually were doing exactly that earlier that same month!!!
Schiff (and you) just didn’t know about it because DOJ didn’t want to share that information with any of us, in order to protect their investigation. This is not the first time we have found out that there was earlier activity in the investigation, contrary to claims of Garland critics. It would be nice if at some point y’all would acknowledge that.
oldgold
This is not an argument as to whether the DOJ was doing some or no investigation prior to Smith’s appointment on November 28, 2022. That is a false frame.
The argument is whether the DOJ devoted sufficient resources and urgency to the investigation prior to November 18, 2022.
My opinion is the DOJ did not devote sufficient resources and urgency to this matter and that as a consequence our Republic may be in considerable peril. Specifically, in my opinion, without rushing a damn thing and after sufficiently dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s, this matter should have been tried in the second half of 2023 – some 30 months after the alleged crime.
Timill
@wjca: but you don’t want the guys at the top to get off due to some overlooked detail.
The “overlooked detail” here is the calendar; these guys are going to skate because their trials are going to be preempted because of the election.
wjca
IF TIFG manages to win the election, which is far from certain. And IF the trials don’t finish before Inauguration Day, which their behavior suggests those guys increasingly think they will. And IF the famously lacking in loyalty IFG actually bothers to pardon them. Then yeah, they might.
But while IANAL, I don’t see trial schedules being “preempted” by the election (if that’s what you are suggesting). Not that the miscreants aren’t trying desperately to stall. But their options there are narrowing fast. And the various judges (excepting Cannon, of course) seem increasingly irritated by the vacuity of their efforts.
dirge
I sincerely and emphatically agree. Or better yet, should have happened in late 2021.
But the word should is bearing a hell of a lot of weight here. It’s not clear that it could have been tried in 2023, regardless of Garland’s successes and/or failures, about which we still have pretty limited information.
tommyspoon
Today happens to be my birthday. I wasn’t in the best mood for the previous three, obviously. But I feel better today. I’ve listened to Biden’s speech three times now, and I feel more hope and optimism in my heart than I have in a long time.
I usually have a quiet b-day, and this one will be no exception. Gonna do some writing, eat some charcuterie, and then make my favorite fried chicken with some roasted carrots. With plenty of cab sav and an old fashioned later on.
Hope your day is a good one!
UncleEbeneezer
@dirge: The fact that the Jan 6 trial is likely going to take place before the election, despite the incredible complexities AND a once in a generation Pandemic shutting down the courts for most of 2021 is a god-damn miracle and we should all be celebrating. Not whining about how “
it should haveI wish it happened sooner.”dirge
Always nice to encounter a kindred spirit.
Happy birthday.
Lyrebird
I want to sit by you for a while.
I know that there are quite a few BJ readers with legal training, even I think some prosecutors, and I ain’t one of them. It’s guaranteed to be hard to catch a cheater by following the rules, and I can wish a lot of things, but I will try to focus on actions available to me.
dirge
We’re not really disagreeing about that. The massive delays built into the Justice system can be an unavoidable fact, and also a serious problem at the same time. It can be both a miracle that it’s happened as quickly as it has, and a tragedy that we couldn’t do better.
Maybe I’m just touchy about this because of all the money and years I’ve spent getting jerked around by people delaying legal process.
tommyspoon
@dirge:
*raises glass*
To kindred spirits.
*clink
Nukular Biskits
@tommyspoon:
Happy b’day!
VFX Lurker
For me, January 6th is supposed to be Armenian Christmas. It still is, but now it’s something else, too.
brantl
@wenchacha: “coup de twats” ; I’m stealing that!
brantl
@oldgold: They wanted an outside agent, to show that it was unbiased.
The Lodger
@Snarki, child of Loki: I already knew a scaffold built out of three 2×4’s wouldn’t hold an adult’s weight, but I didn’t realize the noose was also a special effect. What kind of inept lynch mob was this anyway?
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
Been gone for a bit so just getting back to you.
No I am not a lawyer, not I do not work at the DOJ, but.
I have known a lot of lawyers, 4 of my neighbors long ago were studying for the CA bar exam and I was helping one of them. It is very interesting to read law books and the laws and learn to decipher the actual meaning. It can be far more complicated than one might think. And one of the things I found out is that some sections of the law get used/abused/charged a lot. And a lot of the law does not get prosecuted all that often, even though it is important. Add in humans and humans with a specific slant on important issues and time can fly while it appears that nothing is happening, but it is. There are actually a number of lines of work that this can be said of. A major building takes time to design, get approval, prepare property, build and add the finishing touches. The law is often like that. I’ve served on a number of juries and nothing is rushed because that can cause mistakes rather easily. We often do not see a lot of this progress time because we have our own lives to enjoy. I’ve worked on jobs in a machine shop that took months to finish. One project, a mold for a clear stereo system cover took 2 of us 3 months at 10 hrs a day just to hand finish and polish, after all the machine work, which took almost 3 months as well. Life and work can be complicated at times. And life is more complicated than when I was young, more going on, more of us to feed, house and clothe, more TV, more and different jobs, such as in medicine, which has changed substantially in my lifetime.
Barry
@Citizen Alan: “I did not talk with my RWNJ sister about it at Christmas (thank god), But back in the spring she thought Trump was too old (that was literally her only objection to him) and was fully supporting Desantis. Since the meatball has self destructive, I have no idea who she supports now.”
Trump.