I figured after DeSantis’s embarrassing defeat at the (tiny orange) hands of Donald Trump, the governor would roll over, piddle on his own belly and meekly rejoin the MAGA pack to salvage his future in Repub politics. He endorsed Trump and dissed Haley on the way out, which fit that pattern.
But now fault lines are spidering out across the peninsula, exposing fissures that separate House Don from House Ron. Consider the fate of an absurd bill a MAGA sycophant in the statehouse forwarded this week to put Florida taxpayers on the hook for $5 million in legal fees for Trump. John posted about it yesterday.
Signaling a crack in the alliance, DeSantis vowed to veto the bill, embarrassing Florida’s ambitious elected “CFO” Jimmy Patronis, who had enthusiastically touted it hours before as a “Florida Freedom Fighters Fund” that could also allegedly benefit DeSantis. The bill was quietly withdrawn.
Also yesterday, on a wingnut radio program, DeSantis threw cold water on Trump’s glorious victory in the Iowa caucuses and said straight-up that Trump has an enthusiasm problem: (WaPo)
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said Tuesday that Donald Trump’s commanding victory in Iowa should be “a huge warning sign” for Republicans, comments critical of the former president’s influence on the party that come just days after DeSantis dropped out of the race and endorsed Trump.
Speaking on the “Steve Deace Show,” DeSantis warned that the low turnout for the Iowa caucuses was reflective of conservatives who are expressing their discontent with Trump by staying away from the polls. He said his team found Iowa Republicans who caucused in 2016 but who were refusing to do so again in 2024.
“They were conservative but they did not want to see Trump nominated again, but they had basically been told that it was inevitable, that it was over, so why even bother?” DeSantis said. “And they just totally dropped out of the process.”
Election interference!
That turnout problem could get worse, DeSantis said. “In each contest, those voters that had checked out, I think that percentage will grow and those are the voters you need to be competitive.”
“And I think they’re just like, you know what? ‘We’re doing this again?’ and they’re checked out. So it’s a huge warning sign for Republicans, nationally, based on what we saw in Iowa…”
DeSantis sounded a note of caution in his comments Tuesday: “When I have people come up to me who voted for Reagan and … have been conservative their whole life, [who] say that they don’t want to vote for Trump again, that’s a problem. So he’s got to figure out a way to solve that. I think there’s an enthusiasm problem overall.”
The squinty fascist prick is probably right about the enthusiasm problem. Lots of us called it when the de facto incumbent Trump failed to pick up de facto incumbent-levels of support in Iowa and again in New Hampshire.
But what’s DeSantis’s angle? Is it just sour grapes because Iowa voters resoundingly rejected DeSantis? If so, the timing is odd because Trump started making conciliatory mouth-noises when DeSantis dropped out and endorsed Trump. So why pick another fight with The Beast?
My guess is DeSantis believes Joe Biden will defeat Trump (again), and DeSantis is positioning himself to be the party’s post-Trump savior after a loss (again). So, the 2028 strategy is a modification of the 2024 approach, the change being that DeSantis won’t have to run against Trump in the primary next time.
However, I wouldn’t bet the farm on that. If Orange Sauron loses in 2024 and is still alive and unincarcerated in 2028, he might claim two elections in a row were stolen and run again. Would anyone put it past him?
Open thread.
Baud
Trump: The Once and Future GOP Nominee.
Caveatimperator
Practically speaking, these are the most likely outcomes:
But if for some reason neither of these is true, he’s not attracting any new supporters. Independents hate him and they’re probably also bored with him.
Even so, none of that addresses one of Ron’s core problems. He only appeals to a very particular slice of dedicated Republicans. Most voters don’t care that there’s more representation in Disney movies. They care about the price of food and housing.
zhena gogolia
I’m going with this. The recent “gaffes” must be changing their minds about Trump’s inevitability
ETA: And I agree with Caveatimperator that it’s not going to work for DeSantis. But I think it’s what he’s counting on.
David Hunt
Trump will absolutely keep running for as long as he can. In to opening up a vast array of opportunities for grifting, the increased exposure will give his tiny soul the closest thing he can experience to real pleasure.
Baud
Even if Trump did win, how popular would the Republicans be after four more years of that?
Obviously, I don’t believe in burning the country down on the hopes of some glorious future, but it has to be on the back of GOP politicians’ minds.
waspuppet
Maybe it (or someone) finally got through to him that, for all the media myth-making, the only people Trump ever actually “destroys” are the people who embarrass themselves for him.
That leaves open the question of why DeSantis endorsed him, but he’s proven conclusively that he’s not very bright.
Bill K
Trump said recently that it was “highly unlikely” that he would pick DeSantis for a cabinet post, so now DeSantis has no motivation to kiss @ss anymore.
FelonyGovt
Don’t know if you’re up for another post mortem on the DeSantis campaign, but Michael Hiltzik had a good one in the LA Times. Choice, Betty Cracker-esq. comments included:
”his fruitless efforts to laugh or even crack a smile, which tended to produce only a hideous facial rictus” and
”After I wrote that DeSantis had all the charisma of a linoleum floor, the Times received an indignant letter from an architect objecting to the unwarranted affront to linoleum”.
😀
OzarkHillbilly
And insurance.
Jeffro
DeSantis’ angle almost has to be, “I got out early before any more humiliation, and now I’M the front-runner in 2028!”
(good luck with that, Ron – but I’m not in charge of curing him of his delusions)
He might also think he has staked out a “I told you so” position when trumpov inevitably crashes and burns later this year. Haley’s thinking that too, I’m sure, but it’s not like MAGA nation will care. They will be seen as traitors regardless.
catclub
WE know that DeSantis is very good at being blown about by whatever zephyrs spring up.
I think he could be aiming to be another Joe Scar MSNBC ‘reasonable’ republican – the media love those.
Stating obvious facts which the true believer Republicans are not allowed to say is catnip to the media.
Betty Cracker
@waspuppet: I think DeSantis endorsed Trump to kneecap Haley and position himself as Trump’s MAGA successor:
If Trump loses, which I think he will, the old-timey bagmen will fight the MAGA hordes for control of the party. It will be fun as spectacle!
Mai Naem mobile
@Baud: why would GOP politicians worry about future GOP voters? There are the same people who voted for the GOP after the Bush 1 recession, after Bush Junior’s Epic Disaster presidency and after TFG’s literal American murdering garbage presidency. The only people who have a thought about stuff like that are the GOP oligarch supporters and even they know they just have to own the media and control its narrative.
Soprano2
Was just saying to hubby this morning that TFG could run again in 2028. Would any Republican have the guts to stand up to him then?
catclub
I think the media will really choke on ‘Trump! has the enthusiasm problem’ when they really wanted it to be the Democrats with Biden. If deSantis can keep getting it on major media, more power to him.
Jeffro
I’d also like to point out something really interesting here (maybe related, maybe not): although the Post spun this story as “most NH GOP primary voters say that trumpov is fit for the presidency even if convicted [of felonies]”…that means that an absolutely HUGE % of them feel he is not fit if convicted.
And what will they do then? Where will they go?
There’s no reason to think that trumpov will perform any better than he did in 2020, and plenty of reasons to think he’ll do worse vs Biden, and that’s before we found out that 42% of Republicans (in NH, at least) feel that trumpov is “unfit”.
Wow.
I’m taking nothing for granted but that is HIGHLY encouraging!
Jeffro
@Jeffro:
@Betty Cracker: great minds and all that! =)
Mai Naem mobile
@Betty Cracker: DeSantis knows he can’t legally be TFG’s Veep on top of TFG having some personal animus against him. Haley’s figured out she’ll never be TFG’s Veep because she doesn’t fit his teevee typecast Veep. Both Haley and DeSantis are young enough to wait for TFG to kick the bucket. I’m more concerned about Brian Kemp down the road. He’s more serious and represents a big purplish state.
catclub
I am taking Haley getting 44% of the GOP vote as highly encouraging. I was expecting 70-30 so she outperformed expectations.
AND she is staying in.
AND it is driving Trump crazy.
Geminid
Rep. Bob Good was one of Ron DeSantis’s handful of Congressional supporters, and Good wasted no time jumping on the Trump train after DeSantis dropped out. He endorsed Trump Monday, but maybe too late: yesterday Marjorie Taylor Greene endorsed Good’s primary challenger, state Senator John McGuire. This could add some zest to House Freedom Caucus meetings.
Mai Naem mobile
@Soprano2: TFG is not running in 2028 whether he wins or loses in 2024. They won’t be able to deep fake TFG into looking good. The guy is unraveling. It might be the stress of the lawsuits. It might be dementia. Whatever, the guy is not doing well and you won’t be able to hide it or explain it away.
Baud
@Mai Naem mobile:
They’re worried about everyone else, not their base.
NobodySpecial
@Baud: About as popular as the Tories in the UK, who are still managing to wreck everything and have a compliant press eager to knock Starmer down, with Starmer good at assisting them in that every time he turns around.
p.a.
Given conservatism’s “just lash out” ideology (fascism fetishizes action, energy) DeathSantis’ moves don’t have to make sense. Haley beat me like a drum? Endorse tRump. tRump beat me like a drum? Badmouth him now that I’m done.
“These guys just aren’t very bright.” There’s no checkers involved, never mind chess.
Chris
The smart play would have been to sit out 2024 altogether. Then he could have run as Trump’s successor in a later election without the combined traitor/loser stink of being “the guy who came at the king and missed.”
(I know it’s normal for the loser of a primary to be the next candidate, but Trump and his electorate isn’t “normal;” they’ll see anyone who ran in 2024 as a traitor who tried to steal the throne from its rightful owner, not just another candidate competing for a job that doesn’t “belong” to anyone).
Baud
Haven’t heard a Republican talk about Reagan in a while.
Jeffro
@catclub:
Yup. He wants needs there to be NO questions, no other options, everyone must back him, and quickly, QUICKLY!…or else it all falls apart, and he has no chance of avoiding jail.
Which is why my focus for the next few months is to keep reminding every Republican (RWNJ or not) that I can reach out to that they DO have options. They DO have agency here. They don’t have to be saddled with a mush-minded convicted felon this fall.
JaneE
The MAGA are just screaming cultists at this point. They will vote for Trump no matter what, and will probably turn out in great numbers. What percentage they represent of the total Republican voters I don’t know. I was encouraged by the fact that almost half of NH voted against him, and some of those Haley voters said in exit interviews that they would vote for Biden in the general if Trump is the GOP nominee. That gives me more hope than I had before, but how many of them there are is the question.
A very low GOP turnout in the general, or GOP registered voters obviously going for Biden would send a message to the GOP they could not ignore. That doesn’t mean they would not chose to ignore it anyway, but they would be hard pressed to show they represented any but the white supremacist/fascist portion of America.
Baud
@JaneE:
Trump has been cleaning up with Republicans. Haley is doing well because of independent voters.
Harrison Wesley
The strange creature who is governor of Florida returns to his lair, seething with vindictive resentment over the humiliation and mockery he has suffered…..
……and, behind shuttered windows in a room somewhere in Tallahassee, a pudding cup screams in agony….
Scout211
My (wild) guess is he will be doing these kinds of interviews more often now, to rehabilitate his political creds but mostly to eventually get a paying job in the media.
ETA: edited for clarity
lowtechcyclist
@Mai Naem mobile:
This. I really don’t see him being able to string three coherent sentences together by 2028.
I wonder if Federal prisons have memory care units?
Yarrow
@Jeffro: If the MAGA fever somehow breaks I’d expect Gov Kemp to be a front runner. He’s somehow managed to keep his job in Georgia even though TFG didn’t endorse him.
OzarkHillbilly
New York man convicted of murdering woman in car that turned into his driveway
Good.
Chris
@Caveatimperator:
What’s baffling is that Republicans used to understand this. The whole shtick they have about demonizing do-gooder nanny-state liberals is based on the insight that the average Main Street voter doesn’t like thinking deeply about the moral and political implications of everyday things like entertainment. They don’t care if Temple Of Doom was racist, they don’t care if Black Hawk Down promotes the military-industrial complex, they don’t care if J. K. Rowling is a transphobe; they just want to enjoy their damn entertainment and be left alone by what they see as the busybodies. That may or may not say good things about them, but that’s the way it is.
Guess what: they don’t care in either direction. Nobody wants to have to explain to their kids that there’s no Disneyland to go to anymore because Ron DeSantis thinks gender transitions are icky.
Yarrow
@Baud: How many people still identify as Republicans compared to years past? I know there are still hardcore MAGA people but less crazy people have left the R party.
Anonymous At Work
*: joking translation of “Not-quite-human-man”, stolen from Frasier.
RaflW
It really is a (sad) insight into the politics desk of WaPo that they call Trump’s Iowa win as ‘commanding’ in that piece excerpted above.
51% is a win. No doubt. But ‘commanding’ is editorializing – and I’d say fabulizing – and on this rare occasion I’d say Meatball Ron is correct. Iowa turnout was low and he frankly just squeaked a win. Trump got 38-39% in the three most populous counties in/around Des Moines, which I think signals real trouble for the GOP if (when) TFG is the nominee
Those Republicans won’t likely flip and vote Biden, but the enthusiasm? Not there, IMO.
Steeplejack
DeSantis is going to be squatting his lame-duck ass in Florida for the next three years, and then he has to spend almost another two years doing God knows what before the 2028 election. That’s a long time when you’re not “relevant.” How does he maintain a high profile without constantly reminding everyone what a squinty fascist prick he is? (Good one, Betty.)
Roberto el oso
@Mai Naem mobile: “DeSantis knows he can’t legally be TFG’s Veep” …. why can’t he?
Jackie
@David Hunt: Biden needs to win in a blowout so huge that TIFG will be soundly humiliated and finally pack up his life and move to another country – unless he can’t – due to being behind bars.
Chris
@Mai Naem mobile:
More importantly, at some point the loser stink is going to catch up to him. You can only lose so many elections before you go from “a righteous victim who was cheated by the Liberal Deep State” to “a serial failure who just can’t close the deal and needs to fuck off so somebody else can have a shot.” (They’re not doing themselves any favors by portraying Biden as a babbling dementia patient who’s one stubbed toe away from keeling over at all times; if he is, then what would it say about Trump if he lost to him twice?)
I firmly believed as far back as January 2021 that Trump was going to be the 2024 nominee (and wouldn’t even have to sweat for it). If he loses again in 2024, though, I think more likely than not he won’t be the nominee in 2028. Of course, that’s only if he loses again in 2024, which is everything but certain.
OzarkHillbilly
I think we can stick a fork DeSantis’ political career. He’s a lame duck governor now and he only gets lamer after 2026.
eta: I see SteepleJack beat me to it.
RaflW
@FelonyGovt: Ron DeSantis has all the charisma of vinyl flooring. Linoleum is a remarkable product and I’m firmly with the architect on this one. It’s an ongoing shame that people conflate the two vey different sheet goods.
Odie Hugh Manatee
TFG knows that he is in deep trouble with voters and is in a panic because his victories have been far from the decisive wins that he was hoping for. That’s why he’s screaming at Haley to get out, so he won’t have to have any more poor looking wins before the convention and his coronation there. He wants to looks strong and it’s all falling apart around him.
Rhonda Sandtits is crapping all over him is the icing on the shit cake that is the Republican party of today.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roberto el oso: They are both FL residents.
ARoomWithAMoose
@Roberto el oso: “DeSantis knows he can’t legally be TFG’s Veep” …. why can’t he?”
Provision saying the President and VP can’t be from the same state.
In 2000 it was brought up that Dick Cheney also claimed Texas as home (Same as Gov. W), he silently went and declared residency in another state and continued his campaign machinations.
DeSantis as current governor of Florida would have a bit of an issue declaring another state as his home residence.
lowtechcyclist
Two things about DeSantis: first, by 2027, there will be a number of new entrants in the lists for the GOP nomination. Gov. Kemp has been mentioned, for instance. None of them will have DeSantis’ stink of failure about them. He’ll be yesterday’s news, and will have a hard time getting much coverage. And without a compliant media to make him look good, he’s sunk.
Second, speaking of that stench of failure, who the devil will be stupid enough to bankroll his campaign then after he did such a total faceplant this time? Even billionaires aren’t that dumb.
DeSantis’ political career is toast. He’s still governor of Florida, so his political career is effectively on artificial life support for the next three years. But then the plug will get pulled, and that’ll be it.
Nelle
@Omnes Omnibus: That didn’t stop Cheney and Bush, both Texas residents, though
Ed: Ah, beaten out while typing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Could we please do this without the Rhonda shit?
RaflW
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Heads up, I got very firmly called on the carpet around here for calling the Florida discount flooring salesman “Rhonda”. It’s not cool to feminize him as part of mocking him.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nelle: Cheney had a home in WY (and was originally from there), so he registered to vote there. Problem fixed. How does the sitting governor of a state do something similar?
...now I try to be amused
@Chris:
The Republicans who understood this (and still do) were pushed aside by the culture warriors they cultivated. The culture warriors were never supposed to be in charge, but here we are.
The turning point for the Republican Party was when the base figured out how to take control of the party apparatus and got their own elected.
Delk
Immediately endorsing trump amplified the loser stench. Good luck getting those bronzer stains washed out. Four years of scrubbing will be futile.
Jackie
@waspuppet:
Pudd’n Boots said he took the GQP oath to endorse the RNC anointed winner. He didn’t endorse TIFG enthusiastically, the words sounded like they were pulled from his mouth, with his mommy standing next to him, making sure he fulfilled his duty.
Roberto el oso
@ARoomWithAMoose: Thanks, that’s what I thought. I made a comment (about a year ago) saying the same thing, but a number of commenters “corrected” me, and said the provision no longer applies, or isn’t a hard-and-fast “rule” or something.
Color me confusified.
OzarkHillbilly
Stupidity is doing the same thing again and again expecting a different result. There are a lot of stupid billionaires out there, ex #1: Musk’s record w/ twitter.
waspuppet
@Betty Cracker: That’s more his speed.
Harrison Wesley
This has probably already been used, but one could say in Floridian that DeSantis has fallen like a frozen iguana.
Suzanne
@Mai Naem mobile:
I think Haley recognized what happened with Pence and is guessing that she’d be in a better position for 2028 if she doesn’t take the VP slot.
Nelle
Hoodie
DeSantis’ angle seem to be insuring that Trump loses while still endorsing him and avoiding the direct wrath of the cult. Trump losing in 2024 is more likely to put a stake in his heart, but you never know. Still, it would be better than him winning in 2024 as far as DeSantis’ hopes in 2028. If Trump manages to win in 2024, he’ll either try to obviate the Constitution and hold on to the office or will act as a kingmaker in 2028. DeSantis probably won’t fare well in that respect because Trump hates him and is a vindictive asshole. The negative commentary regarding lack of enthusiasm for Trump and inability to attract swing voters is probably aimed at getting that narrative to gain prominence in the media and thus undermine Trump. DeSantis is smart enough to know that media types have a tendency to get their narratives from Republican rumor mongers. The problem that DeSantis has is that he has been exposed as charisma-less weirdo. He’ll probably desperately try to remake that image over the next 4 years.
SFAW
@Anonymous At Work:
I’m curious: why would that prevent him from running? The MAGAts would still support him, and he/they’d spin it as some demonstration of his manly manliness.
Rational people would be repulsed/disgusted, but we’re talkin’ about TFG and MAGAts after all.
...now I try to be amused
@Omnes Omnibus: @RaflW: Is it OK to call him Rando Santis? I kinda like the sound of it.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker:
I can see DeStupid and Gaetz in a cage match battling to the death for the honor of wearing the fools gold encrusted MAGA Belt.
Yarrow
@Nelle: If Haley didn’t get at least 75% in NH they’d still scream that TFG crushed her momentum. It’s ridiculous.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
He’s getting lamer by the hour, I’m thinking. But maybe I’m using a different definition.
dmsilev
@Chris:
I think if he loses this year, he’s going to do his damndest to run again in 2028, but he’ll have two-time-loser stink on him, he’ll be four years further down the brain-decay road, and there’s a reasonable chance that he’s either in prison or dodging hundreds of millions of dollars worth of debt collectors. With all of that, he’s still got enough of a grip on enough cultists to win the nomination, but would be a shambling mess of a candidate against any Democrat capable of beating Dean Philips or Marianne Williamson in the primary.
RaflW
@Suzanne: She’s tainted enough for having taken that UN position in his last maladministration. She’s very ambitious, and will probably do a robotic RNC-required endorsement of him, but I don’t think she’ll go out to stump/surrogate for him.
Sounds like Ron has also laid a marker he’s not planning to dance on the hustings for Trump (or if he later does, we can laugh even more at his abject hollowness as a person).
Yarrow
@Suzanne:
Agreed. I wonder who would accept the VP slot. It would have to be someone TFG owns. Who can’t say no. People like Kemp or Sarah H Sanders probably would look at it as a bad idea if they want to run in 2028.
Baud
@Yarrow:
Someone who thinks Trump could die in office.
Jackie
@Mai Naem mobile: MAGAts hate Kemp. Kemp would represent the “old” GOP party that Cheney and others desire to save.
Jeffro
There are a couple of interesting nuggets in Thomas Edsall’s piece in the NYT today “We are Normalizing trump”
(which really should be titled, “Most Republicans are Normalizing trump”)
and
*It can’t be said enough: we have to talk about much-needed changes to our democracy, no matter how impossible to enact they might seem.
Chris
@…now I try to be amused:
This is also loosely my definition of fascism. Fascism is what happens when all the bigots and shitheads who had been drawn to conservatism’s message lose their faith in the conservative elites and insist on running the show.
What happens next is the totally predictable result of people going into politics when the only thing they know about politics involves Jewish Conspiracies and One-World Orders.
Hoodie
@Yarrow: Looks like Vivek and Tim Scott are running hard for the job. They probably think that’s the only way they could ever become president. The same was true for Pence, really. There are a lot of losers out there who would be willing to take a flyer on a lottery ticket, especially for a 77-year old president with a shitty diet. They also get a cushy job the would likely have no responsibilities as a VP for a guy who doesn’t like to share the limelight. You also get a plane and a nice house in DC.
Jeffro
lowtechcyclist
@Jeffro:
Edsall: “In other words, these voters have normalized perhaps the least normal president in American history.”
Fuck you, Thomas Edsall. The media have normalized the least normal president in American history.
Suzanne
@Yarrow: Honestly, I think right now, the most likely VP picks are Elise STEF-a-nik or the super-annoying Vivek. Neither of them have anything to lose by accepting it.
geg6
This may be an outlier poll, but Susquehanna is usually pretty good with PA polling. They have Biden up by 7.5. I don’t recall any polling spreads that wide in 2020. I think PA might be holding steady as a Biden state.
Scout211
IMHO, both DeSantis and Haley have committed the unforgivable sin of staying in the race too long and then (gasp!) criticizing Trump.
Tim Scott (according to some pundits) is interviewing for the job right now. He passed the first test by dropping out early on. Then he passed the next test last night by letting Trump humiliate him and then declare that he still loves Trump. This may keep him in the running for quite awhile. That is, until Trump realizes that Scott is a weakling and he doesn’t want him around.*
TBH, it is ridiculous for us to speculate about Trump’s veep choice. But that won’t stop any of us here at Ballon-juice. No sir. On second thought, it would be ridiculous for us not to speculate. So let the speculation
begincontinue!ETA: *or his polling numbers with Black voters don’t improve
debit
@Omnes Omnibus: THANK YOU. I am so sick of that shit.
Danielx
No matter whether it’s close or if he loses by thirty points, OF COURSE TFG will claim he won and for the same reason he claimed he won in 2020. He is psychologically unable to admit he lost because he is Donald Trump and Donald Trump does not lose at anything, ever.
OzarkHillbilly
I think Ati is my newest favorite. Another from them:
Stupid human trick, but damned impressive.
Yarrow
@Hoodie: Manafort picked Pence. I wonder who Putin will tell TFG he has to pick for the VP slot.
Geminid
@Yarrow: Trump endorsed former Senator David Perdue in the 2022 primary, and Kemp crushed him easily.
And I thought Kemp did well that year to beat Stacy Abrams by five points. She was a strong candidate and ran a good campaign.
Suzanne
@Scout211: Scott strikes me as too much of a rule-follower type for TFG. Like, he would have done exactly what Mike Pence did.
TFG is looking for the biggest asshole he can find.
JPL
@Jackie: Maybe nationwide, but not in GA. They stand behind him.
Jackie
@Scout211:
Pudd’n Boots hasn’t ANY charisma for TV, and he definitely doesn’t have a voice for radio!
lowtechcyclist
@Yarrow:
OK, why exactly was Putin supposed to have wanted Pence as Trump’s VP? I don’t understand this part of the theory. I get that Manafort may have been Putin’s errand boy, but the other piece is still missing.
Soprano2
@Mai Naem mobile: I know all of that, but he might try it anyway. Lots of unknowns. I personally think he has no one who cares about him, because if anyone cared about him they would have tried to put a stop to this and get him the help and care he needs. If he does have dementia, he’ll have no caretakers other than those who are paid to do it.
Hoodie
@Suzanne: Vivek and Stefanik would certainly fit that, but both have issues in terms of what Trump would call “central casting.” He may be more likely to pick someone like Noem. Photogenic nonentity, not as crazy as Kari Lake.
Hoodie
@lowtechcyclist: Yeah, I’ve always though the main reasons for Pence were that he was a bone thrown to the evangelicals, fit a certain type that screams “vanilla vice president” and wasn’t a threat to take the limelight.
geg6
@Suzanne: In that case, I’m guessing Stefanik has the inside lane.
ETA: Or, come to think of it, Kari Lake.
Suzanne
@Hoodie: Yeah, I’ve thought about Noem and Lake. I don’t know much about Noem and if she has ambitions beyond South Dakota, or if she needs money and is hoping to go to the Senate and then cash in as a lobbyist. Kari Lake has some loser stink, but she may appeal to the same election truther people. And she has nothing to lose by accepting it.
Geminid
@Hoodie: When people discuss Trump’s potential VP picks, tbey seldom speak of Alabama Senator Katie Britt. Most people haven’t even heard of her. That is actually to Britt’s advantage, I think.
Sure Lurkalot
@Nelle:
Hmmm, glad I opted out of renewing my subscription. However, it was a particularly bad time for me to subscribe to the LA Times instead. Will no one relieve us of pesky billionaires? Come on, Joe, let’s tax them to oblivion.
Jackie
@lowtechcyclist: Putin didn’t care about Pence; he cared about getting TIFG in office. Pence getting evangelicals to vote for TIFG was the reason.
Jeffg166
@Soprano2: I heard TFG speaking the other day and he was sounding feeble, old, tired. This run is taking a lot out of him. He isn’t used to actually working. His age is rapidly catching up with him.
Jay C
And if the “age issue” is really of any relevance, one should be reminded that, if he lives til June of 2028, Donald Trump will turn 82 years old – and (all the GOP gaslighting and bullshitting aside), is REALLY unlikely to be in any better physical or mental condition than he is this year.
I’m sure that whatever his condition, it won’t stop him (or whoever is propping him) from keeping up the same-old, same-old grift machine; with the addition of another “stolen election” to lie about: in an ideal scenario, his puppeteers would have to rely on the occasional video from jail….
Suzanne
@geg6: You know something, I think Stefanik is most likely. I know she’s kind of plain-looking, but I think that’s actually to her benefit here. TFG doesn’t want to compete for attention or to be overshadowed. He wants devotion. He wants undying loyalty. He doesn’t want to have anything to do with her. I don’t think her appearance is an issue for him, maybe even a benefit, because she’d be thought of as not trying to grab spotlight.
Nor do I think Vivek being non-white is an issue for TFG. Might even be perceived as an advantage. “Look, I’m not racist!”.
Jackie
@Geminid: Katie Britt wouldn’t accept the offer. She is not MAGA and wouldn’t take the loyalty test demanded by TIFG, imo.
Politico Magazine did a great article about Britt.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/23/britt-face-post-trump-future-00117753
Harrison Wesley
@Hoodie: VP was supposed to be Christie, but Jared nixed that because when Christie was a Federal prosecutor, he sent Jared’s dad to jail. I don’t know whose suggestion Pence was.
Splitting Image
Honestly, considering how bad Trump sounds these days, I think that if he is still alive in 2028 it will be possible to defeat him by lying about what year it is. His handlers will be able to walk him to a podium, let him do his campaign speeches, tell him he’s travelling to another city, then walk him back to the same podium and let him do the same speech, all without ever letting him near an audience or a news outlet.
I think this is how Trump’s family handled his father. Seriously, the guy is in bad shape. I’m not even sure what they will do for their convention this year. DeSantis is worried about people tuning out, but honestly that is the best thing the Rs have going for them right now. Both candidates will have to do a multi-day event this summer broadcast nationally, and I have far more faith in Biden’s ability to do that.
Snarki, child of Loki
I really *really* hope that Biden gets Fetterman to help with his mid-Atlantic election efforts.
Because the “smackdown-by-mockery” will be EPIC.
Trump is a much more target-rich environment for mockery than Oz was, also, too.
Suzanne
I also want to note that I don’t think Stefanik is ugly. I think she is utterly normal-looking.
OzarkHillbilly
Truth, she’s already surrendered any self respect she might have had.
Paul in KY
I think Cheetolini will run for Pres as long as he’s able to. He has found it a glorious grift of the rubes.
Yarrow
@Suzanne: I don’t think he’ll pick her. She’s too much of a Pick Me girl. Although he loves the attention I think he won’t want that level of desperation around him. Plus, she’s a weathervane and could easily change her attentions to someone else. He knows that. I think it will be someone who isn’t trying so hard.
Paul in KY
@David Hunt: Beat me too it (by alot)! Agree!
Yarrow
@Jackie: I agree this was a large part of it.
smith
@Splitting Image: I agree. No point in fretting about what he’ll do in 2028. At the rate he’s deteriorating he’s unlikely to make it to election day 2024. One reason he and his people are furious about Haley’s relative strength and her determination to stick it out for now is that he can’t disappear until the convention and get some respite from the relentless exposure of his cognitive collapse.
Harrison Wesley
@Paul in KY: Hmm….fits in with the latest equating of Trump with Christ: “The Grifts of the MAGA.”
Suzanne
@Yarrow: We’ll see. I think she’s an utter knob-slobber and that’s what he wants. He doesn’t want self-respect. But I don’t know how malleable she is. Pence proved to have just enough of a backbone to cause TFG a lot of trouble…. who would have guessed?
Yarrow
@Splitting Image: The handlers will put together the convention. TFG just has to do one speech.
Geminid
@Jackie: Britt’s a 41 year old Senator from a small state. She really has nothing to lose, it seems to me. Running in the VP slot this year will not impair her chances for reelection in 2028.
And Britt got where she is by serving as Richard Shelby’s Chief of Staff. That tells me she has experience subordinating herself to a powerful man. I think if Britt gets to the interview stage, she’ll show Trump what he wants to see.
Yarrow
@Suzanne: I know he doesn’t want anyone with self-respect. It will just come down to who does he own. Someone willing to suck up to him is one thing. Someone he can control because he knows their dirt and they owe him is another thing entirely.
Suzanne
@Yarrow: Yeah, that’s a good point. Someone who will owe him a lot of favors.
Anyway, the speculation is fun, but it also makes me want to take a Silkwood shower.
Miss Bianca
@JaneE:
Oh, I don’t know. Seems pretty evident to me that when it comes to ignoring existential-level inconvenient truths, the modern GOP has no peer.
kindness
It doesn’t matter if Trump wins or loses the ’24 election. If he’s alive he’ll be running again in ’28 because the grift and ego stroking are too good to give it up. It won’t matter if he’s campaigning from a jail cell or in a straight jacket. Some 30%+ of the GOP would still vote for him.
It’s a cult.
Hoodie
@Suzanne: She doesn’t seem to bring anything to the table. Trump already has the NY/NJ asshole vote sewn up. He’ll also want someone whose name won’t trip him up, preferably one syllable. He’s already mispronouncing hers.
NotMax
@Yarrow
So, Alina Habba.
// // //
Yarrow
@Suzanne: Agreed. It’s nothing but speculation and ultimately I don’t care. Whoever accepts the VP slot is disgusting and compromised. Yuck.
Paul in KY
@FelonyGovt: He truly is an evil man. I think he’s worser than TFG. God help us all if he ever is able to get his claws on the Presidency.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
zhena gogolia
@Suzanne: She’s ugly inside.
Paul in KY
@Mai Naem mobile: In 2028 (assuming, please Lord, that he loses in 2024), it might be people grifting off him that prop him up for another run. You know, in their hearts, they wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire (which is how he feels about them), so if they thought they could wheel his ass out there & make money, they will.
Yarrow
Across the pond I see there are now calls for the Tories to replace PM Sunak. LOLOLOLOL. What will this be? PM number 5? 6? I’ve lost count. They need to call an election.
Frankensteinbeck
@lowtechcyclist:
My guess: Because Pence is dumb as a fucking stump. Trump is really obvious about his stupidity because he won’t shut up. Pence rote repeats whatever he was told to say, over and over. Pence’s stupidity was famous before he was put next to Trump. He’s an unimaginative, incurious, obedient, moral-free empty suit. Having someone who would never spot, never care about, and never reveal any treason in Trump’s circle might have seemed attractive.
Sure Lurkalot
@Soprano2:
He (thinks he) only needs people for grifting and adulation like any narcissist. Since he can’t see beyond his nose, perhaps he didn’t notice that his wives and children turned out as transactional as he is.
RaflW
@Jeffro: “moving forward, young people are increasingly secular and comfortable with diversity. They are not going to identify with and vote for a party that also has to court evangelical voters.”
This is why I believe that if we can manage to thread the needle and get through the ’24 election (and a likely skirmishy-violent aftermath assuming Biden wins), we will be in a better place by ’28. Not secure by any means, but the national electorate will look remarkably different in 2028 than it did in 2016.
12 years of deaths, births, and reaching-18s will matter a lot.
Jeffro
@Geminid: Kemp strikes me as someone who can pull most of the MAGA base along with him once trumpov goes to prison and/or shuffles off this mortal coil.
Even despite the history w/ 2020
Suzanne
@kindness:
You think?
I honestly think that, at some point, someone in the GOP is going to do something to get him to stop costing them otherwise-winnable elections. In an effort to bow out “gracefully”.
I’ll put it this way: if I was TFG, I would take a cue from my Russian friends and not stand near any high windows.
But what do I know? I honestly thought the GOP was stronger and more organized and would have tried to move past him by now.
Hoppie
@ARoomWithAMoose: Provision says nothing of the sort. Electors from a state cannot vote for both Prez and vice to be from their state. This might present practical problems in case of a close election, but electors in any other state are free to vote for both of them.
Suzanne
@zhena gogolia: Oh, agree. Her character is as hideous as it comes.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Great line!
lowtechcyclist
@Jackie:
I think this presupposes a much more granular awareness of American politics than I’d expect him to have, even given the level of attention he would normally be paying to the U.S.
I think to the extent he was involved at all, he outsourced it to Manafort.
Bobby Thomson
I’m not sure why you think an incarcerated Trump wouldn’t run.
RaflW
@Scout211: One would like to think that Mindy Noce, Tim Scott’s just-announced financee, is going into all this with eyes wide open. She’s an adult and has agency.
But it sure looks like arm candy for rumor suppression and because VP resumes seem to require a marital status checkmark.
sdhays
I think more people are coming around to the idea that Trump isn’t going to be there in 2028, at least not mentally. DeSantis and others like him have increasing confidence it’s going to be a clear field. And I think he genuinely believes Trump will lose again in 2024.
RaflW
@Danielx: Just tell him he gets to declare Presidential Bankruptcy. He’s been fine with that discharge of obligation many, many big beautiful times.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Maybe that’s why he’s been at Mar-A-Lago the past few years, rather than Trump Tower. ;-)
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Frankensteinbeck:
This. I fully expect the Orange Fart Cloud to pick somebody who is “Another Pence”. I’m sure the GQP is chock full of such types.
geg6
@lowtechcyclist:
Nah, he just loves all the toadies coming to MAL to kiss his
ringass. He doesn’t like Trump Tower anymore because he gets heckled unmercifully every time he steps foot in NYC.Matt McIrvin
@lowtechcyclist: To help him win, perhaps. Early on, there was worry that evangelicals might be wary of Trump because the guy is obviously not one of them and is a magnet for scandal. But Mike Pence was one of them and they loved him. Some thought Trump was God’s vessel for putting Mike Pence in the White House– something was going to happen that would get rid of Trump and it’d be their boy in control. Of course, they came around to loving Trump because in a deeper sense, he was their type of asshole. But Pence helped him get over that hump.
NotMax
@comrade scotts agenda of rage
So, Mike Lee.
// // //
Paul in KY
@…now I try to be amused: That sorta sounds like his punk name. So no…
Chris
@RaflW:
Being an optimist is hardly in my nature, and yet I very much do believe that if our democracy can make it to the mid century, it’ll be in pretty good shape. Not perfect shape by any means, and the crazies will very much still be with us, but I think they’ll at least be a firm minority. Sort of like the early twentieth century: the Confederates were still with us, but they had no prospects of winning nationally. And a lot of that is in fact because of what the electorate will look like – people’s politics tend to become entrenched in their twenties, and Millennials and Zoomers are overwhelmingly not doing that with the kind of politics the far right would want.
Of course, that’s contingent on us getting there. Conservatives can read the numbers as well as we can, which is why they’ve gone all-in on effectively ending representative government so that this isn’t an issue.
Paul in KY
@Hoodie: Vifake would be the smarmy asshole that TFG ought to like.
Brachiator
I am happy to let Trump accumulate loser stank and become a new Harold Stassen, forever whining and forever losing.
I would also love to see the Republican Party reduced to rubble and if they continue to embrace Trump, they both deserve a place of dishonor on the ash heap of history.
suzanne
@Matt McIrvin: Agreed. Pence held the social conservative part of the coalition together at a time when they were needed. And he seemed completely boring. The perfect guy for that moment.
jimmiraybob
“Florida Freedom Fighters Fund”
Finally there’s someone fighting for every 5-year old standing up to the tyranny of having to finish there vegetables! Fight on!
Jeffro
@Jackie:
um
Paul in KY
@Snarki, child of Loki: I’m sure Sen. Fetterman and his team are working on epic burns right now! Buwahahahahaha!!!!
Jeffro
very much agree
Paul in KY
@Harrison Wesley: You are so right, Harrison!
Chris T.
Prediction: Trump will keel over dead within 2 or 3 years now, but he’ll still be the Republican front-runner in 2028, 2032, 2036, 2040, and so on, and the Qanon crazies will claim he’s still around…
Jeffro
“Britt speaks fluent MAGA”
(also, she’s a young, anti-abortion woman from the South)
I’ve been saying for a couple of weeks that I think it will be Stefanik, Noem, or Britt. But I think I have them in the wrong order.
Stefanik, Britt, or Noem.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: A Good Morning to you too!
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … TheHill.com:
I think this is a good sign – adding Christmas tree ornaments to must-pass bills is as old as time. And this is needed.
Things are moving…
Cheers,
Scott.
Paul in KY
@Suzanne: There’s alot of loser/sycophants/cucks in that party. Say what you will about Darth Putin, but he’s a winner.
IMO, none of them have the figurative balls to engineer an offing of TFG. They just pray that he strokes out one day.
I do think DeSatanis’ wife would do it, if she had a good chance.
Jackie
@Jeffro: “Shining star…” That alone would disqualify her in TIFG’s book. There can only be one, and it must be HIM.
Anyway, we can all speculate and guess until the cows come home. TIFG absolutely loves this, and names will be hinted out; discarded, and we won’t know until we know.
TIFG did hint that we probably “won’t be very surprised.” 🤷🏼♀️
Jackie
In non TIFG good news:
PJ
@Suzanne: No way the GOP does anything to get Trump out of the way. They had TWO chances to convict him in Senate trials, the second of which would have cost them next to nothing with the general (non-MAGA) public since Trump had already lost the election and had clearly incited the attempted overthrow of the government. But they didn’t do it because they didn’t want the MAGA crowd, which they’d built up over 12 years (at least since the Tea Party), to turn against them.
Baud
@Jackie:
👍
zhena gogolia
Maybe Lincoln Project is just about feel-good videos, but they make me feel good, so I don’t care.
Geminid
@Jackie: I reread that Politico article and I took away:
1) Senator Britt has the elements of a good Vice Presidential candidate, and
2) the author warned that Britt would damage her political future if she ran with Trump but could not say exactly how.
They mentioned her bright Senate future but did not explain how a 3-month national campaign would impair her status in the clubby Senate.
My conclusion was that the real danger for Britt is that she might fall in the estimation of Beltway journalists like the ones at Politico. As if she would care.
DC journalists are a fickle lot anyway. Some might give Britt the side eye for a few months, but before long they’ll be back to writing puff pieces like that Politico article.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
👍
Old School
Jon Stewart is returning to host “The Daily Show.” He is going to host the Monday shows while the Tuesday-Thursday shows will continue to rotate hosts.
Baud
@Old School:
Doesn’t he have an HBO show?
Interesting to see how viewers react to different hosts. People tend to like familiarity.
Jackie
@zhena gogolia: That warmed my heart. She could have been my father speaking – EXCEPT he was a life long Democrat and when TIFG was elected, he was terrified for his grandchildren and great-grandchildren’s future.
Jackie
@Old School: That should be interesting!
Another Scott
Dunno what Ron has planned, but he may have lots of options – especially if he didn’t spend all his campaign cash.
WEARTV.com:
Nixon rehabilitated himself by campaigning for other GQPers after his “Checkers” speech. Ron could do the same. If he has a bunch of money left after setting so much on fire in Iowa, then he’s got even more ways to gain favor for later races.
We’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Old School
@Baud:
He was doing an Apple show, but that was canceled.
jimmiraybob
“If Orange Sauron loses in 2024…”
It’s when. When.
Jackie
@Baud: I think of it as a “welcome home” moment. He was great at reaching the youth and educating them about the GQP in a humorous way. Let’s see if he can do it, again!
Frankensteinbeck
To anyone throwing out the “It was independents who voted for Nikki Haley!” argument, the proportion of self-proclaimed ‘independents’ to ‘Republicans’ in the primary was normal. The results still are clear: Republican support for Trump is squishy as Hell.
Baud
@Old School:
Thanks.
cain
@catclub: But she was already on record saying she will endorse Trump if she loses. Who the fuck talks about already being defeated. I mean if you’re going to declare you will endorse Trump before you even decide you lost – that’s going to chill those who want to vote for her.
It’s like already admitting the cards are against her. Dumb idea. Nikki doesn’t have really good political instincts as far as I am concerned.
Old School
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
This is largely a desperation move, I think.
Comedian Matt Green nails it in this short video.
Baud
@Old School:
Ok. It’s been a long time since I’ve been to Disney world, but that animatronic Abe was a little bit scary.
JaySinWA
They are already employing the “nobody likes either candidate that they are being forced to choose from” they are hedging the Biden enthusiasm trope with bothsiderism.
Librarian
By 2028, Trump will be barely able to feed himself, let alone run for office.
Baud
Looks like Reddit is down.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@RaflW: It’s also unfair to the Rhondas of the world, many of whom are decent human beings.
Hoodie
@Jackie: That can’t but help nail down Michigan. Biden’s looking pretty good in PA in recent polls, too. If those states swing to something like 5 to 8 point Biden leads, Trump’s chances of running an EC inside straight like 2016 would be significantly diminished.
Brachiator
@JaySinWA:
Yes! This is similar to the 2016 media narrative that voters were being “forced” to choose between two equally unpopular candidates, Hillary and Trump.
geg6
@Baud:
Wrong John. That would be John Oliver on HBO.
Jackie
@Old School: 😂 “You probably don’t meet the height requirement!” Good one, Mickey!
zhena gogolia
@Old School: HILARIOUS!
Brit in Chicago
@Hoodie: “DeSantis probably won’t fare well in that respect because Trump hates him and is a vindictive asshole.”
And here I was thinking that I had nothing at all in common with TFG….
cain
@Jackie:
Actually if she won NH, there would be articles asking her to step down for the good of the GOP and unity.
Captain C
@Chris T.:
We’ll have at least one incident every cycle where CNN/Fox/&c. focus their cameras on his abandoned grave during an entire epic policy speech by the Democratic candidate, followed by some navel-gazing fapping by the media wondering why the media keeps doing this sort of shit and/or why can’t the Democratic candidate get media attention/talk about policy.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Which is spectacular, because DeSantis and Haley’s campaigns have been 100% media creations. Literally nobody was asking for these people except for media pundits and the rich Republicans who pay their salaries, which is why they’ve faceplanted so embarrassingly. Trump is absolutely the choice of his rank-and-file voters, as he was in 2016. (Biden even more so, since all the “he’s old” wasn’t even able to produce a DeSantis or Haley level challenger).
Regarding 2016, you’d never know it from reading the media, but Hillary Clinton’s primary vote totals were more than all of the NeverTrumps’ put together. Heck, put them together and they still don’t amount to much more than Trump’s totals. It’s not like people didn’t have a chance to support other candidates; it’s that nobody wanted any of these fucking people. As usual, the media is trying to manifest what it wishes the people thought by simply writing as if they thought it.
Captain C
@PJ:
I think the MAGA crowd is the Tea Party, which in turn is the Gingrich wing of the party (and has been since 1994). Basically the base of the GQP, which runs on spite, sadism, racism, and misogyny. They’re also greedy, but that’s more of a defining characteristic of the Chamber of Commerce rump wing of the party.
Geminid
I see that carpet-bagging Rep. Boebert has another competitor in the 4th Colorado CD primary. According to a January 3rd Colorado Newsline article:
A picture of Lynch shows a rugged looking, smiling man in a cowboy hat.
Besides Lynch, the primary field includes state Rep. Richard Holtorp, former state Senator Jerry Sonnenburg, Weld County Councilman Trent Leisy, conservative radio host Deborah Flora, Ted Harvey, Justin Schreiber, Mariel Bailey plus the irrepressible Lauren Boebert.
Reporter Lindsay Toomer also said that U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson has endorsed Boebert. Johnson described her as “a relentless force for conservative governance.”
Chris
@Captain C:
Correct.
I’d also add that the teabaggers, not Trump/MAGA, was the moment when I looked at the GOP and said “yep, this is a fascist movement.” It was a fascist movement without a Führer-figure, at that point. But it was fascism.
Captain C
@Chris: I can’t remember where, but I remember someone pointing out that around the election of 2010 was the tipping point where Republicans who understood that the extreme rhetoric was still just rhetoric and they needed to govern at least somewhat effectively, became outnumbered by Republicans who believed the rhetoric and wanted to rule accordingly.
JPL
OT Does anytone have ideas on why it’s taking the appeals court so long in making a decision about trump and immunity?
Jackie
@Captain C: Wasn’t Haley one of the original Tea Party members?
smith
@Geminid: Not so fast! The far MAGAS just uncovered Lynch’s dirty little secret, and the CO GQP has joined the honor roll of “Republicans in Disarray.”
...now I try to be amused
@Chris T.:
“Rumors of my Death are FAKE NEWS!!” writes “Trump” on social media.
Meanwhile, the Donald J. Trump Memorial Latrine continues to do a booming business.
Alison Rose
@zhena gogolia:
That’s a good line.
schrodingers_cat
@Old School: Why? Don’t we have enough both-sides-do-iters in the media?
cain
@Suzanne:
Vivek is perfect for his VP. Not a rule follower – and is willing to blow shit up because clearly he loves chaos.
cain
@Geminid: She’s 41 years old without anything behind her and VP. She’ll get eaten alive by today’s politics – she’s not ready to take over for Trump that’s for sure. The independents are not going to go for her and she’ll be a liability in the general.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: He is such a pick-me. I have second hand embarrassment watching him play Gungadin
Matt McIrvin
@Captain C: They’re the same people who were in campus Republican clubs in the Reagan era. They were just as mean and nuts back then. 20-year-old fans of R. Emmett Tyrell and Cal Thomas who liked to talk about beating up protesters.
Captain C
@Jackie: I’m not sure, but that is around when she got elected governor, replacing Mark “Appalachian Trail” Sanford.
Captain C
@Matt McIrvin: That is a very precise and accurate description of them; I was in college during the Bush I administration and this jibes with my own memory of those types.
Alison Rose
@schrodingers_cat: Seriously.
wjca
So true. Only look at the California GOP to see how little impact repeated, massive, losses have.
Geminid
@smith: Oh man, that DUI will hurt Lynch. But he oughta get the drunk driver vote, and that might he enough considering that someone could win this primary with 27% of the total.
Still, Boebert’s chances are looking better. For one thing, she has a big war chest. Boebert could win this primary if she keeps her mouth shut. That’s a big if, though.
Suzanne
@cain:
Agree. Of all of the people we have talked about, Vivek is the most like TFG in that regard…. loves the chaos, loves the attention, loves pissing people off.
wjca
Don’t be too sure on that. See Heinlein’s Double Star. Wonder if someone around him is checking out actors yet….
EDT See also @Paul in KY:
Harrison Wesley
@Matt McIrvin: Wow. That brings back memories. R. Emmitt (or “Bob” as he styled himself) Tyrell, the bargain-basement Buckley.
docNC
@Betty Cracker:If Trump loses, which I think he will, the old-timey bagmen will fight the MAGA hordes for control of the party. It will be fun as spectacle!
It already is!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Geminid:
I’d swear I read somewhere that one of the other RWNJs in CO-4 had a crapton of money but can’t find it.
This Totebagger Radio piece from late last year gave the only indication of money saying that Bobo is carpetbagging in there with $1m on-hand…which I’d guess is a crapton relative to the rest of em.
https://www.cpr.org/2023/11/28/whos-running-for-colorados-fourth-congressional-district/
Geminid
@cain: Senator Britt does not seem to me to be the type to get “eaten alive,” whatever that means. She’s an ambitious, high-achieving woman who worked as chief of staff for one of the most powerful men in Congress.
And what’s the big deal about about being ready to take over for Donald Trump? I don’t see how he would be such a tough act to follow. Anyway, Britt’s got more on the ball than Mike Pence ever did.
Now, I’m not saying It will be Senator Britt. But Trump has got to pick someone, and Britt stacks up well against Noehm, Stefanik, Greene and the other women I see mentioned here, as well as the male candidates I can think of.
Chris
@Matt McIrvin:
A funny thing I remember happening in my college years (mid to late 2000s, not eighties). When I started, the College Republicans were pretty much all George Dubya Republicans, shitty people, but still, y’know, functioning members of society. Halfway through my time there, a freshman showed up and joined them who was a complete bomb-throwing nihilist in the Trumpian vein. Constantly online, present on every social media, 100% nothing but aggressive vitriol. And they simply had no idea what to do with him. One of the earliest things I remember was one of the CR leaders suggesting that he tone it down because he’d said some damn thing that went too far and that’s not what the Republican Party stands for. After about thirty seconds of Facebooking, the guy shoots back “oh YEAH? Well I’m not the one whose girlfriend joined an AL GORE supporters’ group. Is THAT what the Republican Party stands for now?” And so forth.
A similar thing happened in the college newspaper. The usual Republican op-ed columnist, who was actually a friend of mine and wrote opinion articles that were, y’know, wrong, but neither totally insane nor especially confrontational, resigned at the beginning of our senior year. The freshman who replaced him was the same kind of shock jock, a guy who gradually upped the Own The Libs factor in his articles to the point that the year after I graduated, he finally wrote an article defending date rape that caused such an uproar it actually got a little attention in the national media.
Total Eric Cartmans, the both of them. Neither of them really went anywhere. The first one was pretty much shut out of everything by the other CRs after a few months when they realized there was nothing to be done with him. The second one was forced out by the student newspaper (I’m sorry, “chose to resign”) after the date rape article. But years later after Trump became candidate and even more after he became president, I remember looking back at those guys and realizing that they’d been early signs of what the party was turning into. And now it’s pretty much nothing but them.
Paul in KY
@Captain C: Maybe the cameras will catch me pissing on it. Posterity!
Paul in KY
@schrodingers_cat: Vifake is a POS compared to the Gunga Din character (as played in that movie. Have never read the book). He was a hero to the British troops and died as such. He also (IMO) had more honour than Vifake
Edit: Above said as a British citizen. Can understand why you would think the Gunga Din character is a collaborator.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: For some reason I thought Boebert had more money. She needs it, I think. This is a situation where her strongest rival could attract a lot of money from outside the district. State and national Republicans want Boebert out of Congress because she’s bad for the brand.
JPL
@Geminid: trump was struggling with the evangelical vote, which is what made Pence an ideal candidate. I’m not sure what she adds, unless he thinks she would help with the college educated vote.
dirge
I seem to recall someone saying that court issues decisions on Tuesdays and Fridays. Could be wrong about that.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were reluctant to drop the decision on the NH primary or the Friday before.
More generally, they’d probably like it to be an airtight, 3/0 decision, and might be bouncing around a lot of drafts hashing out the details.
Paul in KY
@Geminid: His ‘body man’, Mr. Nauta, could probably do a better job being POTUS than TFG.
Scout211
Kate Cox will be attending the State of the Union address as a guest of Dr. Jill.
Nice.
fairdinkum
@FelonyGovt: Real linoleum is actually pretty cool stuff
ETA: RaflW beat me to it.
docNC
@Geminid: maybe she can “move” to Wyoming.
Gin & Tonic
I am beyond sick and tired of US politics being all Trump all the time. I hope I live long enough to see this country move on and leave him in history’s dustbin.
Kay
UAW endorsed Biden
not a surprise – they endorsed him in 2020 too – but it matters and is helpful
Barbara
@Gin & Tonic: He’s a black hole that sucks all of the energy and oxygen out of anything he comes near let alone touches. I find it beyond disgusting that there is a whole universe of people who look at him and say, “I wish I could be like that (and get away with it).”
zhena gogolia
@Barbara: I am so fucking sick of him. I wish he would disappear somehow. I thought Jan. 6 was going to be it.
JPL
@dirge: Let’s hope they release the decision on Friday.
smith
AZ joins in the disarray fun:
Arizona GOP head Jeff DeWit stepping down after leaked audio tapes
Barry
Betty Cracker: “However, I wouldn’t bet the farm on that. If Orange Sauron loses in 2024 and is still alive and unincarcerated in 2028, he might claim two elections in a row were stolen and run again. Would anyone put it past him?”
If he loses this one, he will have even more loser stink on him. He will face more and more legal trouble. He will physically and mentally rot in public.
And worse, the MSM might move on.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chris: I think it started earlier than that. In ’93 I briefly hung out with some similar CR types and they were listening to Rush Limbaugh every day, convinced that the Clintons were history’s greatest monsters and generally, just mad about Black People, Feminists and LGBTQ people who were just starting to be “out” on campus. Even then, it was all Racial/Gender Resentment. Sure they’d echo the GOP Party Line about Global Warming, Taxes and other policies, but it was very clear what was really driving them. I ditched them real quick and never looked back but I’m sure they love Trump, nowadays.
Kay
Ha! Fain is going after trump in the endorsement speech -called him a scab
the UAW is about 35 per cent non white (more diverse than non union workplaces, btw) and I think unions recognize that trend will continue – more non white.
Chris
@UncleEbeneezer:
It’s less the bigotry and more just the total inability to function as anything but a rabid animal. Communication as 100% trolling or dominance posturing, etc.
sdhays
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, he claims to be from the Ohio part of Florida, so I’m sure that sorts it all out.
Matt McIrvin
@Roberto el oso: The president and VP CAN be from the same state. But they can’t both get the electoral votes of that state. In the case of Florida that is particularly important.
In practice it means that the major-party candidates are never from the same state, though it may only be via a bogus token residency.
Brit in Chicago
@RaflW: In 12 years you’re going to get, roughly, 15% of the population dying, and 15% turning 18. (This is the true version of the replacement theory.) So, with any luck, that will make a difference. The kids will save us! (I hope.)
Suzanne
@Gin & Tonic: SuzMom has had some health challenges in recent months, and she was getting kind of down about it a few months ago. I told her she needs to live long enough to take a shit on his grave. That put some pep back in her step.
Geminid
@JPL: Britt would reassure traditional, Chamber of Commerce-type Republicans. These businessmen, professionals, millionaires etc. may not be as numerous as conservative evangelicals but they still are very influential. They punch above their weight in American politics.
They are the weakest link in Trump’s coalition, now that he’s won over the conservative evangelicals Pence reassured. The Wall Street Journal would hail the choice of Britt as proof of Trump’s seriousness, and the New York Times would call it evidence of Trump’s growing maturity. Hew Hewitt would be over the moon.
These people want Trump to win despite the misgivings they have about him as a person and a leader. They would be relieved that Trump wasn’t handicapping his campaign with a lightweight or a nut. And Britt is their kind of politician who shares their basic political outlook.
dirge
The MSM might mock him, or pity him, but it’ll take quite a while for them to ignore him. I don’t think that’ll be his biggest problem, though.
The most brittle part of his coalition are the ones who are kept in line by fear. That’s a lot of voters who worry about abuse from Trumpy family, friends, and coworkers, and, importantly, it’s all his aspiring heirs in the political and media class.
If he can’t win, then he can’t make good on his threats. All the grudges they’ve been quietly nursing will spill out. Once they smell blood in the water, he’s shark chum, and when they’re done with him they’ll turn on each other.
But that doesn’t mean he won’t run again in ‘28. The people around him won’t tell him any of this, and he wouldn’t believe them anyway.
Bab
@Yarrow: More importantly, she doesn’t bring any votes to the table. She represents the least populous district in a state that will never, ever give him their electoral votes, and no one outside of the North Country likes her even a little. Even Pence had some midwestern bible thumper clout to offset Trump’s East Coast “sinning and loving it” schtick. Stefanie is an unlikeable nobody.
evodevo
@Harrison Wesley: It was Trumpy’s campaign manager at the time, Manafort, who maneuvered him into naming Pence as VP. It was a shrewd move, since all that “grab them by the —” stuff was still circulating, and Pence had undeniable Xtian credentials to counterbalance it.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/do-we-remember-that-manafort-pick-pence
However, THIS time it’s Susie Wiles and (shudder) Jason Miller and I have no idea who they would pick. If you want to know who Donald would pick, just look at who his lawyer is in the defamation case…
Geminid
My understanding is that Suzie Wiles and Chis LaCivita are Trump’s top campaign managers. Those two will likely have more influence than Jason Miller in this matter. Trump will of course make the final decision.
This is assuming Trump has not fallen out with his current managers, which is always a possibility.
@evodevo:
Gvg
@cain: um no. After the Clinton Sanders fight and getting Trump, the Democratic Party and all the 2020 candidates were very careful to make it clear that it was going to end with them all supporting the winner. They were also a lot more careful than in the past in how they attacked each other.
The Republican Party had a history going back to at least Reagan of not attacking fellow Republicans. It doesn’t hold at all anymore, but it did and it gave them more power than the disorganized democrats. They want the power but still hate each other and aren’t as smart as past republicans.
tybee
@Suzanne:
LOL
Quadrillipede
I’ve been calling him Rodney Sandpits, which seems (to me) to be sufficiently disrespectful in a non-discriminatory manner.
Quadrillipede
He could resign as governer and move to another state… 🤔
Quadrillipede
Yes, but do they hate him as much as losing every presidential election for the foreseeable?