Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

A consequence of cucumbers

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / 2024 Primaries / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Proud to Be A Union Man

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Proud to Be A Union Man

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In conclusion…

===

I’ll admit I was mildly curious about the proposal to write in Ceasefire on NH Democratic primary ballots:

Reader Interactions

213Comments

  1. 1.

    Jeffro

    Hey AL, thanks for the link to that GQ piece about Jason Isbell in the late night thread, that was a cool article!

  5. 5.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Workers have two forces that can balance the power of employers. One is government regulations such as minimum wage and safety standards. The other is some kind of union.

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Just feel the need to point out that a large segment of union members are socially conservative and would slit their wrists before voting for a DEM. I can’t begin to say how many idiotic conversations I had with these boneheads.
    eta: not saying a majority, just that it is not insignificant​
    eta2: @Lapassionara: ​ Yep.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: One is government regulations such as minimum wage and safety standards.

    And that depends on which state one lives in. Alabama and Mississippi have to be in the running for the worst.

  10. 10.

    Ken

    Have a bit of sympathy for the “hot takes” folks who are tasked with spinning Biden’s 64% into a problem for his campaign. Anyone with a bit of brain will immediately ask about Trump’s 54%.

    My own hot take is that if in the general election, in each state Biden gets 64% of the votes he got in 2020, and Trump gets 54% of the votes he got, it would be an Electoral College blowout not seen since Reagan-Mondale.

  13. 13.

    Spanky

    @OzarkHillbilly: Nope. That may hold in Misery, but the union members I know in the Rust Belt are reliably Dem. And I bet there are more of those folks going to the polls in their respective states.

  14. 14.

    evodevo

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, especially the construction trades around here (except for electricians, for some reason) – the anti-war marches in the late Sixties/early Seventies, combined with the civil rights movements, pissed off a lot of them who were closet Archie Bunkers, and pushed them into the cohort who became the Tea Party and then MAGAts…long history of racist/leftie hate…

  15. 15.

    Ken

    @Baud: It’s similar to the attitude (sometimes even appearing in our wonderful comments section) where someone says we should just write off Texas and let them suffer. As XKCD pointed out (read the mouseover text), there were more Biden voters in Texas than New York.

  22. 22.

    John S.

    Seung Min Kim is terrible. She is right up there with some of the worst malpractitioners of journalism.

  26. 26.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Ken: Have a bit of sympathy for the “hot takes” folks who are tasked with spinning Biden’s 64% into a problem for his campaign. Anyone with a bit of brain will immediately ask about Trump’s 54%.

    Oh the hot take is Trump’s 54% is unprecedented.

  29. 29.

    Anyway

    wow, Harold Ford Jr got a write-in! Who’d write him in? Is his mom a NH resident? He’ s the poster child for No  Labels…

    Cenk got 3 write-ins – woo hoo!

  30. 30.

    lowtechcyclist

    “Donald Trump is a scab. Donald Trump is presents as a billionaire and that’s who he represents.”
    – UAW President Shawn Fain

    Had to fix that. The rest is truth.

  35. 35.

    Anyway

    @Baud:

    Am disappointed that no NH jackals wrote in Baud!

    Writing’s on the wall, pal. Time to go spend time with the family

  37. 37.

    Geminid

    @Betty: I was disappointed this morning to see a No Labels leader identified as Joe Cunningham. “Hope it’s not that Cunningham,” I thought. But it was the Joe Cunninham who flipped the South Carolina CD in 2018 and then lost to Nancy Mace in 2020.

    As one of 40 Dems to flip seats in 2018 Cunninham had been on my special List of Honor. But now I’ve transfered Cunningham to another of my special lists, the Shit List.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    We have to have each other’s back.  That’s a great theme for Biden-Harris in 2024.

    Keith Richard got a write-in vote in Nashua, NH.  He has half Joe Manchin’s support.

    Keef is surging!

    And anytime I think of Keef, I think of Amir, and hope that he will be back to us.  All the best to Amir (and Aoife cat), wherever you might be

  40. 40.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

    I know, right? Kind of wish I had campaigned for someone to do it, although I wouldn’t have wanted to take a single vite from Biden.

  41. 41.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: I don’t know how anyone can even think it’s a contest. Joe Biden is the most pro-labor president in my lifetime, how can any union not support him?

  42. 42.

    Yarrow

    @evodevo: Any construction trades union members who were old enough to get pissed off by the anti-war marches in the 60’s/70’s are most likely retired by now. Are they representative of current construction trades union members?

  43. 43.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    @John S.: I may be misremembering, but didn’t Joe Biden gently call out the stupidity/vacuousness of one of Seung Min Kim’s questions at one of his press conferences?

  45. 45.

    different-church-lady

    Lemme see if I got this straight: about 1500 people wrote in names that were already printed on the ballot?

    Turns out I don’t have that straight at all.

  46. 46.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: And yet strangely in MO they absolutely hate right-to-work laws. I know the people have voted them down at least twice in my lifetime. I can’t explain that, but it’s true.

  47. 47.

    geg6

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: ​
     
    Yes! They’ve been spinning like crazy to make it sound like Cheetolini had an amazing blow out, but barely any mention of the amazing Biden write-in vote, which was an actual huge blow out.
    I hate these people so much.

  48. 48.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Soprano2: ​
     

    The cognitive dissonance of Misery voters, during my 22 years there, never ceased to amaze me and so-called right-to-work laws was the poster child for that.

    I always used that as an entry point into any (limited) political discussions with my virulently red neighbors if for nothing else than to get them thinking.

    But it also showed the very real differentiation they would make between what they saw as local/state issues vs federal ones.

  50. 50.

    evodevo

    @Yarrow: Don’t know…KY is a right to work state nowadays (THANKS, REPUBS!), and all the construction guys I know are gig workers, except for a neighbor who is Pipefitters and does contract work for Toyota…​
    ​
    ​

  51. 51.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid:  Here’s a 5 minute interview with him on NPR if you can stomach it. Lots of  “we aren’t trying to keep anyone from winning, we just think the people deserve another choice” crap. Either they’re in total denial about how our system actually works, or they’re just lying.

  52. 52.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: It’s highlighted in one of those tweets above. Evidently there are a lot of weird people who get on the NH ballot.

  53. 53.

    3Sice

    Dean suggested he’d go away if he didn’t break 20%.

    Dude, Democrats just aren’t into you.

  55. 55.

    Soprano2

    @Yarrow: I agree, there is still a lot of talk about the Reagan-era “Reagan Democrats”, but most of those people are in their 80’s and 90’s or dead.

  56. 56.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Baud:

    The reddest congressional district in the country still votes 30% blue.

    That sent me down a rabbit hole looking back at Misery voting.

    Congressional District 8 (SE chunk of the state) managed 21.9% for the Dem in 2022 and just 21.4% in 2020.

    It’s gotta be tough to recruit any Dem candidate to run down there with voting patterns like that.

  59. 59.

    3Sice

    @Soprano2:

    They broke the seal on the Kucinich crypt, which goes to show just how desperately low quality the GOP rat fucking industry has become.

  61. 61.

    Soprano2

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I will say it’s slowly getting better around Springfield. Six years ago we only had one Dem in the state legislature, now we have three. I’m sure that makes it easier for them to recruit candidates for the other districts in this area. The surrounding counties are still heavily conservative, and of course loon Mike Moon is from Ash Grove, so there’s that, but I do think it’s slowly getting more liberal here as the Springfield metro area grows.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Soprano2: Yep. I’ve butted my head against that brick wall time and again. Too many seem to think that as long as their paycheck is safe, the rest doesn’t matter. They don’t seem to understand that these repeated votes to beat back Right to Work for less do not come with a guaranteed outcome.

  67. 67.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @NotMax:

    I completely agree.  It’s just tough to figure out ways to have a shot and/or convince people to run when facing those odds.  If I had an answer…

  69. 69.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: That’s the double standard, though, isn’t it? Trump’s 54% is a stunning landslide that should by all rights grant him a mandate to impose his entire agenda on the American people, while Biden’s 64% is a crushing disappointment that indicates America is dissatisfied with him and he must make major concessions to the GOP.

  71. 71.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Lapassionara:
     

    Union leadership understands it. Let’s hope union members do too.

    Sadly, a whole bunch do not. It flabbergasts me how many union guys are trumpers. And I deal with union leaders, not rank and file members! It’s crazy.

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    It seems that Eeyores are everywhere. I was looking at posts by Bora Bingol, a Turkish guy I follow and sometimes converse with. Bingol’s an ardent Homeland Party supporter, and he got fed up with one of his party’s doomsayers:

       Enough with your negativity pumping. No one is your emotional punching bag….You say what you think, thank you, but other people are not your emotional sand bag, other people don’t have to suffer your pain every minute.

    BECAUSE WE ARE IN A POLITICAL PARTY NOT A RELATIONSHIP.

    Politics is done in political parties, so let’s act like we are in a political party, please. I strongly request. Thanks.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Sadly, a whole bunch do not. It flabbergasts me how many union guys are trumpers. And I deal with union leaders, not rank and file members! It’s crazy.

     
    “Help me help you!”

  77. 77.

    artem1s

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​ 

    a large segment of union members are socially conservative

    that is somewhat dependent on which union you are talking about. SEIU is significantly more diverse than say the AFL-CIO or UAW or steelworkers. I suspect a lot of the ‘socially conservative’ members were the same ones who white flighted it out of cities in the 70’s and resented their union’s integration as much as they resented school integration.

  80. 80.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s bizarre, they’ll vote against right-to-work and then vote for the people who pass it! Voters are not logical, that’s for sure. I think a lot of it is that they see Democrats as the party of blacks, women and gay people, so they don’t want to vote for them.

  81. 81.

    Elizabelle

    A headline at the WaPost:  Gift link:

    The U.S. economy boomed in 2023, thanks to consumers opening up wallets

    New GDP figures today show strong growth at the end of last year

    … The economy’s resilience has been driven by vigorous consumer spending. A strong job market and rising wages have made it possible for many households to keep shelling out — particularly on services such as entertainment, travel and dining out — even at a time of elevated inflation.

    This is what Kay has been telling us.

    … Strong economic growth has distinguished the United States from its peers. Europe and Britain are on the verge of recession, and China — the world’s second-largest economy — is on slippery footing. Overall, economic growth in advanced economies is expected to slow this year, to 1.4 percent, according to the International Monetary Fund.

    Government policy played an important role in supporting the economy last year. The Biden administration’s efforts to fund new infrastructure and clean energy projects have created new jobs and spurred $640 billion in private investments around the country.

    Despite the economy’s strong rebound from the pandemic-inflicted recession, Biden has struggled to convince voters that his policies are making their lives better. Higher prices, particularly on essentials like food, housing and utilities, have clouded Americans’ views on the economy, with inflation routinely topping the list of voters’ biggest concerns.

    Oh come on. It is the fucking press and their doom and gloom too.

    Finally, in paragraph 10 of a 17 paragraph story, we see the word “Biden.”

    They tried to end the story with a discouraging quote from a barber in Philadelphia, but screwed that up, and we got a recap that includes “stable footing.”

    I despise the WaPost’s Bezos editor hire Sally Buzbee.  I wish one of his yachts or space vehicles would fall on her clickbaiting head.  She’s dreadful.

  83. 83.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Baud: very busy the last few months with both work and family. Have lurked some but not nearly as much as I used to.  Plus, there are times when I need a break from politics….

  88. 88.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Elizabelle:

    I despise the WaPost’s Bezos editor hire Sally Buzbee. I wish one of his yachts or space vehicles would fall on her clickbaiting head. She’s dreadful.

    They’ve been dreadful for 20+ years now, she’s the latest in a long line of upwardly failing “journalists”.

    My hometown paper, that 20 years ago I decided to stop subscribing to and for the last 5 years, barely read. It could have been different.

  91. 91.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Steve in the ATL:

    We should never forget that the war on unions started because POC started to get access to those jobs.

    The WWC were fine with paying their union dues as long as their upward failing white family members were first in line for all the jobs.

    When fair labor standards hit, suddenly the GOP was all about ‘right to work’, outsourcing to Asia, and dismantling the union pensions that meant the middle class didn’t have to die in poverty anymore.

  92. 92.

    Elizabelle

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:  The WaPost’s previous editor was Martin Baron, formerly of the Boston Globe.  Which won a Pulitzer for its coverage of priestly abuse scandals, and was the subject of the Oscar-winning movie “Spotlight.”

    Marty Baron was terrific.

    Agree that standards are falling, badly, in a lot of journalism, but Buzbee is Bezos fucking with the newspaper he bought and can barely stand to fund.  (Buyouts; staff reductions.  Meanwhile, he’s got ginormous yachts and his own space program.)

    It is sad that newspapers are disappearing and suffering, because they’re usually far more informative than broadcast/cable and talking heads.

    The horrible headlines, though, that don’t actually fit the story.

    I appreciate tremendously that the WaPost allows reader comments, and the top ones generally take them to task for the misleading headlines and negative or absent focus on Biden.

  94. 94.

    Jeffro

    @Elizabelle: I had fun putting that up on my FB page, for my various FoxBubble relatives to wake up to (both literally and metaphorically) this morning.  =)

  95. 95.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yep, for the first time in his life, my B-i-L has a good job. It’s union, natch. He was going on and on over the holidays about how great the union is. It was pretty jarring for him when on of my S-i-Ls (not his wife) walked them through which party has historically been FOR unions and which party against, and what Biden’s vs Trump’s positions are. The cherry on top is that it’s likely he got the job because of Biden’s infrastructure initiatives.

    You could almost see the neural pathways shutting down, wisps of smoke floating out of his ears.

    But other than politics, he’s a good guy.

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @artem1s: that is somewhat dependent on which union you are talking about.

    For certain, my point of reference is construction unions.

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax: ;-)

    @Soprano2: they see Democrats as the party of blacks, women and gay people, so they don’t want to vote for them.

    Ding ding ding! We have a winner! A lot of fragile white males in the world.

  98. 98.

    frosty

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: ​
      My hometown paper, that 20 years ago I decided to stop subscribing to and for the last 5 years, barely read. It could have been different.

    Different hometown paper and slightly different timeline but that was my reaction to the Baltimore Sun being bought by the Tribune. Even worse now, with the owner of Sinclair buying them.

    It could have been different. A group of investors wanted to keep good journalism in town and run it as a non-profit. Their bid was rejected and they started the Baltimore Banner. Which I just subscribed to.

  101. 101.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Okay.  Many union members are MAGA.  The endorsement is still a good thing.  Aside from the news cycle win, the endorsement means organizers and GOTV efforts.   People on the fence will be influenced.  Yeah, maybe the horse needs braces and a couple of fillings, but, ffs people, this was a good thing.

  102. 102.

    Another Scott

    Good for Fain and the UAW and all the rest of the unions trying to make things better for all of us.

    Ceasefire got more than RFK, jr., Cenk, and Cornell.  Where are all the pundits demanding that they drop out??!?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  103. 103.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Soprano2:

    I think a lot of it is that they see Democrats as the party of blacks, women and gay people, so they don’t want to vote for them.

    All of which, if you go back far enough, were enslaved, confined to the home, invisible.

    Which is a time most of these fragile white dudes, who have no actual experience with (well, except for Teh Gays being invisible), would like to send those groups back to.

  107. 107.

    H.E.Wolf

    @clay: ​Who are the dipshits who wrote in “Trump” on the Democratic primary ballot?

     Probably the same folks who sign up (via online portal) as fake volunteers in our local Democratic Party’s volunteer database, with fake names that are misogynistic or homophobic slurs.

    In both cases, it seems to me that it’s an action by someone who takes pleasure in being childishly hateful.

  108. 108.

    Elizabelle

    @Chief Oshkosh:  He may not have said anything to you, but that might have adjusted or changed his way of thinking. Who knows, he may even repeat the conversation to some of his buddies.

    Especially if he is a good guy, otherwise.

    I think a lot of these “good guys” aren’t that good on critical thinking, and are actually low information voters.  Because they are male and take a lot of things for granted.

    (Why yes.  I speak of my BIL, and one of my beloved nephews.)

  109. 109.

    raven

    I don’t much care for Steve Earle but the McCoury’s!!

     

    I‘m a union manJust like my daddy and all my kinI took a union standNo matter what the company saidI got me two good handsAnd just as long as I’m able I won’t give in’Cause I’m a Harlan ManA coal minin’ mother ’til the day I’m dead

  111. 111.

    Nelle

    @Elizabelle: Yesterday’s early headline about Trump “crushing” Haley’s momentum got tremendous feedback in the comments and later disappeared.

    I mourn the loss of newspapers, but we cancelled our subscription to the Des Moines Register, now a collection of sports coverage and restaurant information.  I miss the ability to page back and forth, not click here and there.  And now, I sometimes can’t go back and find an article.  Vanished into the ether.

  112. 112.

    p.a.

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: No.  Goes back to Taft-Hartly and the fact that unions in general were a $$$ source and the main foot soldiers of the Democratic Party since FDR.

    I think the anti-war movement & New Left alienated what was still at the time the WWC (not absolving the “hard hats” on their part either) more than the workforce diversifying.  Powell Memo & its energizing of the right is my particular bugbear in the attack on the union-Democratic  partnership.

  115. 115.

    Baud

    The death of newspapers is sad, but they couldn’t or refused to find a way to market to liberals in the face of right-wing media capturing the other side of the political spectrum.

  116. 116.

    Baud

    White union households are better for Dems than white non-union households. But a majority of both still vote GOP.

  117. 117.

    Jeffro

    Btw (apologies if this has been posted before) but…Alexandra Petri is a national treasure

    trump accepts election results, outraging his base

    Yes, Donald Trump got the results of an election and accepted them without a murmur. Indeed, he boasted about them. His supporters thronged X to tell the person with fewer votes that she had lost. As though winning fewer votes in an election were anything but an incentive to keep calling that election into question for years to come and making life hell for the election workers. As though you could tell whom people really wanted based on whom they cast their votes for. As though votes meant anything!

    Supporters tried to puzzle out what had changed. What made this election different from the presidential election? Was it that it was in New Hampshire? No, that can’t be. New Hampshire went for Joe Bidenin 2020. Trump won, yes, but that couldn’t be it, could it? It couldn’t be that he just was saying all those things before because he didn’t win, could it?

  118. 118.

    Suzanne

    LMAO. Someone wrote in Harold Ford, Jr. I bet it was Harold Ford, Jr’s mom. Does anyone else remember that dude?

  119. 119.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:  Am wondering if anyone could form a consortium to help fund local and major newspapers and share information across platforms.  Bring down those paywalls.

    What’s happening at the LA Times is tragic, and they actually seem to have a decent owner.

    We need accurate news more than ever, especially in the face of weaponized and instantly moving disinformation.

  120. 120.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Baud:

    The death of newspapers is sad, but they couldn’t or refused to find a way to market to liberals in the face of right-wing media capturing the other side of the political spectrum.

    As this was going on in the Aughts, I had a long-running conversation with a former WH reporter for a major paper (it’s where my BJ handle originated, except for the ‘comrade’ part) on this very subject.  She’d talk about how the editors would get hammered continually by obviously right-wingers on everything.  It was, when she got to the WH beat, the culmination of 15 years of working the refs that went into overdrive when the Bushies came to power.

    From her perspective, editors simply didn’t know how to handle it in the face of the internet, losing revenue streams, etc.  So, they simply caved.

  121. 121.

    Mousebumples

    Seeing HE Wolf around reminds me –

    Postcards to Voters has addesses for Tom Suozzi in NY (February election to replace Santos), if anyone has time or interest to help GOTV.

    I’m hoping to get some written this weekend and next week. Who’s with me?

  124. 124.

    Steve in the ATL

    @raven: Steve Earle is my favorite songwriter, and he did a concert for the Georgia Democratic Party during Covid.  He’s good people.

  125. 125.

    Geminid

    @Elizabelle: “Republicans can win on Culture War issues!” was one of many bad takes spawned by Glenn Youngkin’s success in 2021.

    One reason I dreaded a Youngkin victory was all the bad takes I could see coming. In this case though, I think they hurt Republicans.

  128. 128.

    Elizabelle

    @Geminid:  They can try this year.

    I think Dobbs inspires more than “woke” any day of the week.  And, perhaps the press will start noticing and publicizing that ancient Joe Biden has actually been a pretty good president.

    I am ashamed that Virginia elected Youngkin.  But, I think that will turn out to be an anomaly.  And he can only get away with the “rich dad in fleece vest” once among voters who pay attention.

  129. 129.

    catclub

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I think the loss of independent newspapers is from the shock of Craigslist and the internet.  The classified ad pages used to be a license to print money, also all the ad pages on the sunday paper– gone with the department stores that paid for them. So newspapers were previously in the ‘very profitable ‘ category.  They are not anymore, but the owners who got used to the license to print money could not adapt to ‘somewhat or barely profitable business’.

  130. 130.

    Elizabelle

    @Geminid:  Thinking on that more, it was the pandemic and all the zombies who wanted their kids back in school (unmasked), who cares about the teachers’ and grandparents’ health?, and wanted the restaurants and nail salons open.

    Covid might have elected Youngkin.

  131. 131.

    catclub

    @Elizabelle: And, perhaps the press will start noticing and publicizing that ancient Joe Biden has actually been a pretty good president.

     

    Would you also like a puppy?

  132. 132.

    Spanky

    @Suzanne:

    LMAO. Someone wrote in Harold Ford, Jr. I bet it was Harold Ford, Jr’s mom. Does anyone else remember that dude?

    No I don’t, and I’m making it a point not to look him up.

  136. 136.

    Steve in the ATL

    @catclub: the margins on classified ads and print ads were huge, and newspapers had a cost structure based on that.  The margins on click through ads, on the other hand, are tiny, so they have the unenviable job of realigning their cost structure to the new revenue model.

    On a smaller scale, fewer subscribers means physical delivery costs a lot more too.

  138. 138.

    3Sice

    Newspapers ran on union labor and the job offs were disproportionately working class.

    The bosses are no longer afraid to go down to where the work is done. This has changed media labor coverage.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @TBone: This could mean the end of the “Mountain Valley” pipeline that would carry natural gas from West Virginia to points near the North Carolina coast. The pipeline’s promoters act like they are not thinking about exporting the gas. But unless someone intends to carpet the Carolina lowlands with glass and brick factories, there is no reason to build a 42″ gas pipeline to within 40 miles of Morehead City except to supply a new LNG terminal.

  144. 144.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat:  It scares me that the FTF NYTimes’ business plan is to profit off communities that have lost their local news coverage, and supply the Democrat Derangement coverage from “the paper of record.”

    If you looked at the NY Times website, and spoke or read no English, you would think that Trump is king of the world.  His mug all over the place, in his business suit, “winning”, his name in too many headlines.

    Biden is apparently in the witness protection program.  Special one, for the old aged old.

  145. 145.

    Mousebumples

    @H.E.Wolf: Tom Suozzi’s surname is pronounced “Swozzy”, as in “Ozzy Osbourne”. I’d been trying out all kinds of (wrong) pronunciations while I was writing!

    Very cool! I would have guessed Sue-ozzie, lol.

    Happy postcarding to you!

  147. 147.

    Kay

    Biden will get 55 per cent of labor voters. It’s been consistent for years.  The reason the 55 per cent are important, punch above their weight, is because of where they vote not who they are. It’s  also why Lefties on Twitter are less important (although BJ spends an enormous amount of time “opposing “ them) because they live in NY and MA and CA – states Democrats always carry

    The real concern for losing votes on I/P is Michigan Arab Americans. They really could flip MI. I don’t think they will but they could and Democrats have to engage with them seriously and respectfully. Just sneering at them probably won’t work.

  149. 149.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Elizabelle: They’re turning up the heat on immigration hysteria, with the new nullification crisis Texas just started over razor wire on the border, where they decided to openly defy the Supreme Court.

    Why are they doing this? Probably because it’s one of the more popular culture wedge issues they’ve got. I’m sure we’ll be hearing about the scary caravans.

  150. 150.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Soprano2: I would argue that this is the main reason that anybody votes GOP.  They view the Democratic Party as one that panders to marginalized groups that they don’t like.  True for every Black/Latinx/Woman/LGBTQ/Immigrant etc., Republican voter I’ve ever met.  The only difference (sometimes) between them and White MAGA voters is who they call “those people.”  And many of them hate their own people with internalized bigotry.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    So it’s about 200k total Arab American voters in MI

    They vote 70 per cent D so 140k but obviously they all won’t do a protest vote (or a null vote)

    I think Democrats should pour outreach into those areas. Michigan Democrats already seem to be – now the national Ds have to

  155. 155.

    craigie

    So someone left their home to go through snow to the polls in order to write in “Donald Duck”?

    Such clever people…

  160. 160.

    Steve in the ATL

    @H.E.Wolf: ​ on a closely related note, I recently learned how Dutch actor Michael Huisman pronounces his name: muh-KEEL HOUSE-mun. Never would have guessed that, especially since he speaks English like an American native.​

  161. 161.

    Steve in the ATL

    @3Sice: ​
     the newspaper unions I have dealt with are extremely weak. May vary by market, but I get the impression that no one in that industry has any leverage whatsoever. Except the billionaire owners.

  163. 163.

    Scout211

    Peter Navarro will be sentenced today.

    He will be going to prison, likely for only a month, but still. ::happy dance emoji::

    Former Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro will be sentenced Thursday for criminal contempt of Congress, with federal prosecutors saying he “thumbed his nose” at the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

    The charge carries a mandatory minimum sentence of a month in prison.

    . . .

    Federal prosecutors are seeking six months in federal prison for Navarro, saying he, “like the rioters at the Capitol, put politics, not country, first, and stonewalled Congress’s investigation.” Navarro, prosecutors said, “chose allegiance to former President Donald Trump over the rule of law.”

  164. 164.

    Kay

    I would also suggest actually listening to them.

    Theyre not demanding Biden solve I/P or even guarantee a ceasefire so telling them he doesn’t run Israel is not responsive

    They want the United States (not “Joe Biden” but The President – the head of state) to CALL FOR a ceasefire.
    So respond to that. That’s the ask.

  165. 165.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I am really impressed by Shawn Fain. I know the UAW leader is a really important position but this guy should be something bigger. Governor/POTUS/Secretary of Labor??

  166. 166.

    Elizabelle

    @Scout211: I would guess Navarro might get more.  For the thumbing.

    And when will Steve Bannon be sentenced??  That’s been going on forever.

  168. 168.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Elizabelle:

    H/T to who mentioned this article earlier this week, Rick Perlstein discussion with Jeff Sharlet about an encounter Sharlet had with a FTFNYT political reporter.  A taste:

    Mr. Times: “You can say something is ‘racist.’ You can say something is a racist thing. But putting a label on someone is distorting from the reporting that we do. And the reporting is much harder. And much more powerful than the writing”—what he implied was the only thing Sharlet did, perhaps in an armchair in a book-lined study, smoking a pipe, mongering labels. “And people are welcome to label things however they want, but there’s frankly nobody else doing the reporting that we do.”

    Sharlet: “I’m going to disagree with you there.”

    Which was when the things that came out of the Timesman’s mouth started getting ugly and weird. His counterargument: “That’s what ten million people are subscribing to The New York Times for … And not to like sound too high and mighty, but the market has spoken, and they like what we’re doing.”

    Comment sections may be gratifying but it’s seems clear that they are not heeded by the powers that be. Subscription numbers are the metric of “success”. Let the market decide what truth is. That’s the almighty god they preach about in business school, one ring to guide us all..the MARKET!!!

    Best to unsubscribe. Subscribing apparently means approval.

    https://prospect.org/politics/2024-01-17-metaphors-journalists-live-by-part-i/

  170. 170.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Kay: I would respond that President Biden is working hard for the ceasefire that the Qataris are trying to broker.

    The problem is, this is not the ceasefire many peace advocates are pushing for; that is, a permanent ceasefire accompanied by an IDF withdrawal from Gaza. The Qatari proposal is for a 2 month ceasefire accompanied by an exchange of Hamas and Israeli prisoners. They hope it will become permanent.

  171. 171.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    The real concern for losing votes on I/P is Michigan Arab Americans. They really could flip MI. I don’t think they will but they could and Democrats have to engage with them seriously and respectfully. Just sneering at them probably won’t work.

     

    I don’t think anyone is sneering at them.

    It’s just that they don’t make any phucking sense.

    And, I mean that.

    Joe Biden is the ONLY thing standing between Bibi completely razing Gaza with no hesitation.

    The ONLY thing. There isn’t one phucking Republican that has said anything in support of Gaza.

    NOT. ONE PHUCKING ONE.

     

    TO A ONE – they made clear that Bibi would be allowed to do whatever he want, and that they wouldn’t be bothered with humanitarian aid in the least.

     

    And, let’s not even get into the fact of the Muslim Ban, and that the Orange one would let in absolutely no refugees from there.

    But…they won’t vote for the only person trying to do things in that region?

    The ridiculousness of that from this Black woman’s perspective…

    lips so pursed.

  172. 172.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: It drives me crazy how the press can’t be honest about this, because it hurts conservative’s feelings. Once you realize this is why they vote the way they do it makes sense why working class people vote against the party that supports unions.

  175. 175.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Well, whether it’s exactly what they want or not I would suggest responding with what you wrote.

    Losing the Mi Arab American vote is a genuine threat to Biden’s re- election – I think it’s interesting that instead of discussing that we prefer to discuss the much less real Lefty threat.

    Biden will carry Brooklyn and Boston

    worry about Detroit

  176. 176.

    Kay

    The union vote is interesting. I personally think Democrats kept 55 per cent although white men moved Right because unions changed – unions are more diverse than they were. The UAW is about 35 per cent non white now. So the diversity helped us hold steady amid losses w/white men.

  180. 180.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    yeah, I just think they’re an important D constituency so should be listened to and engaged with.

    Big picture, they’re upset because they still have hope for peace. I don’t have hope for peace – I don’t think either side of the conflict wants peace- so I don’t agitate on the issue.

    So I credit them with having hope.

  181. 181.

    Miss Bianca

    @rikyrah: I am here with you on the whole lips-pursed thing.

    And it’s amazing to me how even people I know whose judgment I would normally trust are so willing to jump on the “Biden’s doing everything RONG on I/P” bandwagon.

    I usually end up trying out a page from Adam Silverman’s book and say: “this territorial battle goes back at least as far as the Six Days War in 1967 through various intifidas starting in the 1980s” and then add, “and you expect that Joe Biden is going to just be able to wave a magic wand and STOP IT, like that?”

    Sometimes they actually stop and blink before they start talking again.

  182. 182.

    Kay

    I would speak directly to the ask – explain why the United States (personalizing it as Joe Biden is not serious) won’t call for a ceasefire

    thats the US position under Biden. defend it.

  183. 183.

    Scout211

    @Elizabelle: And when will Steve Bannon be sentenced??  That’s been going on forever.

    He was sentenced last fall to 4 months in prison and he has appealed that.  No word yet on the appellate decision.

    A Federal Appeals Court in Washington, DC, spent nearly an hour Thursday considering former Donald Trump adviser Steve Bannon’s attempt to overturn his conviction and sentence for contempt of Congress.

    Bannon was convicted in July 2022 of two counts of contempt of Congress for defying a subpoena issued by the now-defunct House select committee that investigated January 6, 2021. The ex-adviser and strategist to Trump was later sentenced to four months in prison, though his sentence has been on hold while his legal challenges play out.

  186. 186.

    Ksmiami

    @Kay: because a ceasefire with Hamas still in charge means more innocent Israelis get murdered going to a concert. It isn’t tenable at all.

  187. 187.

    frosty

    @raven: ​I love that album. Earle said he wanted to write some timeless bluegrass tunes and I think he did it.

    I’ve mentioned before that Del and his two sons played at my son’s high school graduation – his sons went to the same school. I think I was the only one in the audience who knew who they were! I’m going “That’s Del McCoury!” and my relatives just went “Who?”

  190. 190.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: Because our allies, the Israeli government (spit in Netanyahu’s direction), will claim it rewards Hamas and hinders their ongoing military operation to destroy Hamas. We also would like Hamas destroyed, as it does nothing for getting a Palestinian State sometime in the future. God willing, the Israeli government can become less-Likud in the future (thru elections & stuff). There’s nothing like that in Palestine, so killing them is about all you got (in ridding the process of Hamas).

  193. 193.

    wjca

    @Paul in KY: There’s nothing like that in Palestine, so killing them is about all you got (in ridding the process of Hamas).

    Except that, on the evidence so far, the IDF is being quite unsuccessful in killing Hamas.  It doesn’t really qualify as a solution if it can’t be implemented.

  194. 194.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I’m sure the Biden people aren’t sneering at them. The Gaza thing is a real quandary, and Bibi is making that situation much worse. I do get tired of the idea that Biden can control what Bibi does.

  195. 195.

    Soprano2

    @Matt McIrvin: That’s so nutty, they’re promoting the idea that it’s OK to prevent Border Patrol from doing their job and ok to ignore a Supreme Court ruling. Not good at all.

  196. 196.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    I just notice here that every time we discuss some potential political problem for Democrats we go thru the same process – the dissent isn’t “real” OR they’re not “Real Democrats”

    I mean, come on. It’s politics. You have to engage with people whether they’re following your orders or not 🙂

    We have a problem in MI. It’s not a catastrophe. But we have to make an effort with those voters. We need them (like it or not)

  197. 197.

    NotMax

    @Soprano2

    Cancelled my subscription to the family-owned Maui News the day after the announcement it had been gobbled up by right-wing consortium Ogden Newspapers, Inc. out of West Virginia.

  198. 198.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I don’t think that’s unreasonable, but they’ll have to be ready for all the pundits to say he’s “pro-Hamas”, because that’s how the right characterizes anyone calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, and we all know how the press bows to the right’s rhetoric. I’m amazed they’re still saying the stolen election stuff is a lie.

  199. 199.

    artem1s

    @H.E.Wolf: For many states you can vote in whatever primary you want to. Ohio GOP has been fucking with the Dem’s primaries going back to W at least. They usually know who the GOP candidate will be so they organize a bunch of GOPer voters to cast a crossover vote for some third party shithole in the Dem primary hoping to throw some delegates to a spoiler.

  200. 200.

    Geminid

     

    @Ksmiami: I’m hoping the Qatari-mediated ceasefire can be implemented. Hamas says it will reject a ceasefire that is not permanent and leaves IDF forces in Gaza, but reports are that they are coming around.

    So now Netanyahu is throwing the Qataris under the bus, telling the hostage families that Qatar is not doing enough to save their loved ones. He even blamed the US for renewing the basing agreement that enables us to stage substantial Air Force assets in Qatar, which I found pretty fucking arrogant even for “Bibi.”

    So this is very frustrating to watch. Gazans desperately need a ceasefire. Even if it wasn’t permanent it would provide some breathing space during which they finally get needed food, water and medical care. The Arab nations in the region need time to build support for a diplomatic resolution that could result in a more permanent ceasefire.

    Israel needs this ceasefire just as much. They tried to put political disputes on hold during the emergency that began October 7, but now they cannot defer them much longer. As War Cabinet Observer Gadi Eisenkot said in a sensational TV interview last week, “[Israel] needs to ask itself how it continues from here with a leadership that has failed so completely.”

    Eisenkot directly contradicted Netanyahu’s assertion that military pressure would bring about the release of the 130 hosrmtages in Hamas’s hands. The only way they’re coming back alive, Eisenkot said, is through another ceasefire deal.

  201. 201.

    Nelle

    @Kay:  I may be too late with this and I may be very wrong.  Here goes, though.  I have a neighbor from the West Bank.  The little we talk about politics, he says that none of his Palestinian friends will ever vote for Joe Biden.  I don’t bring that up now.  I just continue to be a friend (he knows that I’m the Democratic GOTV person for the neighborhood; he knows my politics).  The situation in Gaza is fluid and who knows what it will be late summer, early fall.  But that is when I will start to talk to him, gently, about the possible outcomes of a Trump presidency.  And I  know that he has a lot of friends that are a bit startled that an American reached out to him on Oct. 9 to check on his welfare.  I don’t do it because of a potential vote.  I do it because he is my neighbor and friend.

    So my suggestion to those in Michigan is to make relationships of caring.  Leave the politics alone for a few months.  Invest in them as your neighbors.

    (edited to add – sorry I wasn’t timely.  Was trying to get a sick grandson down for a nap.)

  203. 203.

    DougL

    @Soprano2:

    “I think a lot of it is that they see Democrats as the party of blacks, women and gay people, so they don’t want to vote for them.”

    (Sorry don’t know how to do the quote box thing)

    This! IMO it is almost completely the reason for the support from the white middle and working classes (while noting working class is often also middle class economically) for Republicans. And in the order of the enemies of “the (real, white) people” you listed.

  204. 204.

    Geminid

    @Nelle: I think a lot will depend on the course of this war over the next ten weeks. Right now the fighting is still intense, but the war is approaching an inflection point, I think.

  205. 205.

    Kay

    @Nelle:

    Oh, that’s nice. I’ll think about that.

    I don’t think we’ll lose all 140k but it makes sense to cut losses – there will be losses – the only question is if they are fatal to Biden in MI. I think it’s enough of a risk that I would take it seriously.

  206. 206.

    Kay

    @Nelle:

    We had a group goi g here for the Ohio repo rights amendment and there’s some interest in re assembling for the Biden/ Sherrod Brown effort

    It won’t be all Democrats (“real” or otherwise). My sense was some of the women had not been voters before.

  207. 207.

    Kay

    It also doesn’t make sense to say Lefties lost it for us in ‘16 but they’re also irrelevant.

    If they lost it for us in ‘16 then we do, in fact, need them so they are not irrelevant

    I don’t think they lost it for us in ‘16 because as I said I think NY and CA and MA go blue regardless.

    Make up your minds. Either they don’t matter or they lost the ‘16 race. It can’t be both.

  208. 208.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: From Axios reporter Barack Ravid:

       In an effort to teach a breakthrough in the hostage negotiations, CIA Director Willism Burns will hold a summit in Europe with the PM of Qatar and the Iraeli and Egyptian spy chiefs.

    The accompanying Axios article said the meeting will be held “in coming days.”

  209. 209.

    schrodingers_cat

    The cosplay socialists are not enough in numbers by themselves to actually win elections but they are enough in numbers to create distractions, so Ds running for office have to fend off attacks from both the left and right flanks. They also give enough fodder to the journo bros in the media to go with the Ds in disarray type stories. They also have enough numbers to play the spoiler like in Bush v Gore and in 2016.

    BS or bust voters and their complaining about how he was robbed by the DNC (election denialism) definitely played a part in HRC’s defeat.

  213. 213.

    Geminid

    @Paul in KY: This war may be at an inflection point. The Israelis had hoped to be where they are now five weeks ago. The IDF has now lost more than 220 killed, and that’s a lot in a country of 9.5 million. They could still succeed in their goal of ending Hamas control of the Gaza Strip, but a two-month pause won’t make that much difference; Hamas and its allies are dug in already.

    A two-month ceasefire would take a lot pressure off Israel if Gazans could get sufficient food, water and medical care for a couple months, maybe more. Besides the US, Israel’s allies in Europe and among Arab countries are pressing hard for this.

    It would also give Israelis time to hash out their domestic political problems. That’s one reason Netanyahu is leary of the ceasefire and is undermining its negotiation.

    The pressure to save the hostages is building though, and more people believe as does Gadi Eisenkot, the former IDF Chief of Staff: that the only way to get get the hostages back alive is through a deal.

    If you watch Israeli media this Saturday you will see the third and largest weekly rallies since they began again early this month. The first one in Tel Aviv drew 120,000 people, in a pouring rain. The Tel Aviv rallies have not been explicitly anti-Netanyahu, but the rallies in Haifa are, as are demonstrations in Caesarea where the PM has a home. That’s less than 48 hours away now.

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