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Dorothy is here tonight with a set of reviews for another 3 book categories. Welcome Dorothy!
Romance, Romantasy & Fantasy
by Dorothy A. Winsor
As jackals may recall, I set out to read a book from each of the 15 categories Goodreads uses in its Best Book of the Year contest. This post covers categories four (Romance), five (Romantasy), and six (Fantasy). Wait! Don’t run away. See what you think of the books I read and maybe give us the lowdown on your own reading.
Romance: Love, Theoretically
First, my Romance confession: Even though Romance is the best seller of any category of fiction, I don’t usually read it. But on principle, I don’t diss romance novels. I believe it’s as hard to write a good romance novel as it is to write a good book in any other genre. I think the disrespect commonly shown for romance is a sign of disrespect for its largely female readers. Actually, I’d say the same thing about disrespect for the YA category, especially since women writers dominate YA. I recently saw a discussion on Reddit that implied YA was great until it got girl cooties.
In this category, I chose Love, Theoretically by Ali Hazelwood. Elsie, the central character, is an adjunct professor of physics at U Mass and other Boston universities. Let me just explain that adjuncts are hired year to year in non-tenure-track positions. The pay is so bad that, like Elsie, they teach at multiple places at the same time. Elsie supplements her income by working as a girlfriend-for-hire.
But as the book opens, things are looking up for Elsie because she’s one of two finalists interviewing for a tenure-track job at MIT. Elsie’s job hunt is complicated by the presence of an existing faculty member with whom she has history.
My major reservation was with the male lead. In my opinion, Jack is a cliche. He’s desirable at first sight but slightly mysterious. To quote the book: He has “a dash of bad boy…a hint of mystery…a dollop of smoothness.” And in the next paragraph, he’s “distant. Uninterested. Effortlessly confident. Charismatic in an intriguingly opaque, inaccessible way.”
Additionally, the tension in this story dropped way off for me in its last third. By that point, the plot problems raised at the book’s start are all resolved, and we’re left with Elsie’s internal issues and the romance. Sadly, the man is the one who guides Elsie to self-knowledge, a move I thought undercut her and her growing strength.
Romantasy: Fourth Wing
Amazon.com: Fourth Wing (The Empyrean Book 1) eBook : Yarros, Rebecca: Kindle Store
Romantasy is a combination of Romance and Fantasy. The category is new this year because so many submissions combined these two genres that they’d have crowded everything else out.
Fourth Wing, by Rebecca Yarros, is the story of characters training in a fantasy battle school that, among other things, requires them to bond with a dragon. The central character is Violet, whose brittle bones were supposed to send her to train as a scribe rather than as a combatant. But plans have gone awry.
I was engaged enough in this book that I picked it up whenever I had a free moment. I wanted to find out what happened. So that’s a good sign about the plotting. I’m also a sucker for found family stories and that comes into play here, as the cadets at the battle academy form friendships and struggle through trials together. There are some action scenes, including a long battle scene at the climax, and a couple of hot sex scenes. So, if those are your jam, they’re here.
I was, however, skeptical about the world building, and remained so throughout. I was never sure exactly why they were at war or even who they were at war with. There’s an acceptance not only of death but of murder not just of external enemies, but also of their classmates. Generally, societies don’t act that way. They might murder groups they see as “Other,” but not their own kind, at least not routinely as something they see as good. Also, people witness death over and over, and seem to suffer no trauma.
Fantasy: Tress of the Emerald Sea
In this category, I chose to read Tress of the Emerald Sea by Brandon Sanderson. Tress lives on an island in a sea of dangerous spores. She’s a window-washer by trade and has never imagined leaving home. Then the man she loves is taken captive, and Tress sets out to rescue him. The plot is full of twists that require Tress to grow and change. It’s not particularly tense, and I could put it down when I had to. But I always picked it up again because Tress’s company is enjoyable.
Sanderson calls the book a “grown-up fairy tale,” and it does have that tone. In some ways, the narrative voice reminds me of Neil Gaiman’s stories. Here’s an example of the description of a character: “Imagine him as the answer to the question: ‘What if that gunk from your shower drain were to come to life?’” I only gradually realized that the narrator is a character in the story. Unraveling his identity eventually becomes part of the plot.
The book is often humorous, but it treats serious, heart-felt matter. One of my favorite parts is when a tertiary character is killed, and the narrator stops to tell us more about this character, turning him into a person, rather than an anonymous red shirt.
Sanderson says the idea for this story came from watching “The Princess Bride.” His wife noted that Buttercup scarcely appeared. She wondered how the story would change in the princess was the one to set off to rescue the person she loved. Sanderson originally published this book on his Kickstarter as part of a project of his own called “Secret Project.” For a long time, Sanderson and his wife were the only readers. I like secret projects. In writing, I think they’re particularly useful because they provide a place the writer can play without worrying how anyone else will judge them.
How about you? Are there genres you don’t read? Do these books sound appealing? What have you read recently that you want sound off about, no matter the category? Have you ever had a secret project?
War for Ukraine Day 704: A Brief Sunday Night Update
WaterGirl
Tonight we find out how much overlap there is between football and Medium Cool. :-)
Dorothy A. Winsor
The time I had a secret project: I belonged to a writing group that tended to gang up on a member. Who the gangee could be changed, and eventually it was my time in the barrel. The constant criticism totally destroyed my self confidence. For a short time, I stopped writing. Then I started again but it kept it secret. I told myself that no one would see crappy draft this unless I let them. I kept going to meetings but I didn’t submit. Shortly thereafter, the group fell apart. The book I was writing eventually became Finders Keepers, the first book I sold to a publisher. I like those people outside of the writing group. But I needed a secret project to function.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@WaterGirl: I figured I wouldn’t have many commenters tonight. Luckily, I have a book to read. :-)
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: If it’s super dead, we can run it next week instead.
Dmbeaster
Not to mean about it, but romance literature very rarely has real male characters. You nailed it.
In my opinion, Jack is a cliche. He’s desirable at first sight but slightly mysterious. To quote the book: He has “a dash of bad boy…a hint of mystery…a dollop of smoothness.” And in the next paragraph, he’s “distant. Uninterested. Effortlessly confident. Charismatic in an intriguingly opaque, inaccessible way.”
It’s ironic that the genre basically relies of a cartoon version of men.
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: That sounds like a pretty ugly group dynamic, no wonder the group fell apart. Group dynamics can be like that sometimes.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@WaterGirl: I may be imagining the whole thing. Still, it was good for me to get out.
Suburban Mom
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Thanks for doing this. I haven’t read Fourth Wing, but it has hard core fans. Do you think it is worth a read despite the shaky world building? And out of curiosity, what do you think is the driver of the intense engagement by some readers?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Dmbeaster: As I said, I don’t usually read romance stories, so I can’t say how common that stereotype is. I can see the allure, but at the same time, I can’t lose my skepticism.
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I thought about postponing this and then thought “it’s not like it’s the Super Bowl.
Tony Jay
I’m secretly amusing myself by trying to write a sequel to the Hammer Horror ‘Karnstein Trilogy’ of four films that explains not only how all of those films fit into a workable chronology along with Le Fanu’s original Carmilla, but also how their variant depictions of How Vampires Work makes sense.
It’ll also – theoretically – set the scene for a sequel that explains how Hammer’s Dracula films actually exist in the same universe as Stoker’s Dracula novel and, more importantly, how there was stuff going on behind the scenes in Dracula that totally changes the narrative without changing one word of the text.
I might never get it done, but I’m having a blast with the further adventures of Captain Kronos and Hieronymus Grost, while coming up with a secret history of Renfield that gives the character his badass due.
Really hard not to write it as a comedy, though.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Suburban Mom: I really did enjoy Fourth Wing. Apparently, lots of other people did too. It’s hard to analyze what draws a massive number of readers. It’s hard enough to analyze why I enjoyed it. If we knew, publishers would all be rich.
You might as well give it a try. I do like the found family.
PS. I’m inhibited and skip the sex scenes. :-)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Tony Jay: See, that sounds like fun. You don’t need anyone else’s praise. You’re enjoying yourself.
Maybe there’s a place for this project on a fanfic site. You’re way out of my reading area, so I don’t know.
Scout211
I read a lot of romance novels. I have a kindle unlimited subscription. which is to me, like everyone else’s streaming service. I read a ton of kindle books and love a happy ending. But they do often run to tropes and unrealistic characters. I think many romance readers like that because it’s familiar to them.
Rebecca Yarros is a very good writer but I am not a fantasy fan so I prefer her earlier books that are contemporary.
Anyway
How did your book group like Yellowface? As a non-writer I enjoyed the behind-the-scenes look at the publishing industry. Some of the social media stuff got too meta but both unlikable protagonists worked for me. The ending was too cartoonish.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Scout211: I don’t mind tropes. They’re common because they appeal to readers. And writers play with them. That’s what Sanderson is doing in Tress of the Emerald Sea.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Anyway: My book club’s meeting is Feb. 12, so we haven’t discussed it yet. One woman told me she was enjoying it, and another said it was “dark.” June is just so awful.
dnfree
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I suspect you always have a book, or several, to read!
None of these categories appeal to me particularly, so I salute you for attempting them.
I recently read the first “Murderbot” and am trying to decide whether to read any more of them. Any advice?
Also, a daughter is a librarian who informs me that there are ongoing discussions over whether Star Wars is SF or Fantasy. I’d say fantasy.
stinger
Interesting reviews — thanks for sharing them here, Dorothy!
The description of “Jack” is, to my mind, overwritten. I never trust too much description. Show me, through the character’s words and actions, rather than telling me. Also the redundancy is off-putting. For example, “mystery… intriguingly opaque, inaccessible” says the same thing, over and over, as does “smoothness… confident”. I get it, already!
Tony Jay
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I’m just having fun knitting ideas together and getting a dopamine hit whenever I come up with a plot-hole solution that drives the story forward exactly how I want it. And believe you me, those films had a LOT of plot holes.
There’s romance in them too. The Hammer Films were mad chock full of it so it’d be rude not to carry that on, Lesbian Vampire Women and homoerotic manly yearnings and all. Kronos and Grost are just such a cute couple… of friends.
If you don’t write for pleasure what are you? A FTFNYT columnist, that’s what. Fate worse than bloody death.
Kristine
I used to hear the same back in the 90s about SF and Fantasy.
Some things just never bloody change.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@dnfree: I enjoy the Murderbot books. I love the way the Murderbot basically rolls its eyes at human beings who want to do things like talk about their feelings.
I’ve seen that argument about Star Wars. People compromise by calling it Science Fantasy. But basically, I think it’s closer to fantasy. It’s not really interested in the science or in exploring how science change how we live. The think I admire about SW is that it showed us a used universe. The space ships weren’t shiny and undented.
Suburban Mom
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Thanks! I am going to check it out. My son’s girlfriend really enjoyed it and I’d like to be able to discuss it with her.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@stinger: It calls attention to itself. You can’t miss it!
@Tony Jay: You’re right. You really have to do it because you enjoy it. Any other reward is uncertain.
@Kristine: I’ll bet you did. Your books stepped right into that manly science fiction universe and did what they liked.
Alison Rose
Fourth Wing is a weird situation. I haven’t read it because the negative substantive reviews I’ve seen have made it clear I would not even make it halfway through. But it blew up on TikTok and such and so many people are like THIS IS THE BEST BOOK EVER WRITTEN, and after hearing thoughtful criticism from others, it just…makes me question some people. I think it’s fine to read just for entertainment, and you shouldn’t have to read critically every time. But the effusive praise it’s garnered from some circles is so over the top for what sounds like at best a mediocre and heavily derivative YA fantasy. (I know some people insist it’s NA but…it sounds pretty YA to me. I don’t say that as an insult, just a descriptor.)
Rachel Bakes
Love good romance; it’s my favorite genre, historical and contemporary. That said, the books I don’t finish is a growing category. Dislike first person narratives for one thing. Crude or crass language is a turn off for me too. Maybe I’m more on the boundary between chick lit and romance.
romantasy? Hadn’t seen that tag on goodreads yet. There’s been a growing number of novels that fit that as witches, Faerie, werewolves (checked one of these out of the library without reading the blurb) keep appearing on a rotating basis.
brought 2 romances along on our anniversary sojourn to nyc yesterday. Got 1/3 into one of them and threw it across the hotel room in disgust.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Alison Rose: It’s a flawed book, no doubt. But then, most books are.
The dividing line between YA and New Adult is unclear. Generally, I think of YA as the equivalent of a PG-13 movie. In Fourth Wing, the characters are in their 20s. But it’s the explicit sex scenes that make this an uneasy fit for YA. You can have sex scenes in YA books, but they’re usually fade-to-black.
It says something about US culture that the over-the-top violence would be less of a problem.
RSA
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I enjoyed your post, though I haven’t read any of the novels. Thanks for your reviews.
For what it’s worth, I’m a fan of urban fantasy and grown-up fairy tales, though I avoid romance cross-overs. Romance seems to have taken over those genres, so I don’t read much in them any more. (It’s not the romance per se, but rather how authors so often sweep murder under the rug–he’s a vampire who’s fed on innocents for centuries, but he’s really hot, so we’ll forget about the past.)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Rachel Bakes: Ooh. What made you toss the book? Do you mind saying?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@RSA: I’m completely missing the vampire/werewolf appreciation genes. I don’t get it.
Alison Rose
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Right, it often is the sexual content that makes the difference. But often I think there are books that ARE young adult and then they make the sex more graphic so they can call it new adult or adult. Little annoying.
Barbara
@Rachel Bakes: ”Books I don’t finish is a growing category” for me as well. there are some kinds of books that I read over a long time because they are dense — serious history — so when I put them down I expect to pick them back up, almost like reference books. But there are an increasing number of genre books or “regular” novels that I am finding hard to read to the end. I can’t put my finger on any one thing in most of them, though gratuitous violence or characters with no redeeming virtues get to me. It feels like I’ve been on a losing streak for the last few months.
Tony Jay
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I think it’s a lot to do with cranking the Bad Boy trope up to max.
“It’s not his fault, he’s cursed. Toned and brooding and lovely and tormented and so, so, cursed.”
Yarrow
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Years ago I remember reading an article about the movie “Fight Club.” It had to be edited heavily to be shown in the UK because of all the violence. The US is totally fine with that. But sex? Heaven forfend! Can’t show any of that!
O. Felix Culpa
@Rachel Bakes:
Same here. So many books seem to start well, and then get lost somewhere down the line. I used to finish every book I started, whether I liked it or not. Now I realize life is too short to maintain that rule.
That said, the Sanderson book sounds intriguing. I might give it a whirl.
Scout211
That’s why I have kindle unlimited. It doesn’t cost a thing to return a DNF book.
Many romance novels are now self-published so there is no editing process to speak of. And there are rumors that many of the prolific writers are actually hiring out the writing of their books to editing services.
But I still prefer a romance novel in any of my favorite sub-genres over a mystery or a fantasy. I just return them to KU if they stink.
dnfree
@Dorothy A. Winsor: A couple of years ago I read the Stephen King book 1963, which involved time travel and the JFK assassination. It was better than I had expected, except for the sex scenes, which were beyond cringeworthy. “Fade to black” would have been preferable. The romance was fine, but the details seemed tacked on. I haven’t read any other Stephen King, so I don’t know if that’s typical.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Tony Jay: That rings true.
Chris
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The other thing I like about Star Wars and that, like the “used future” look, makes it feel more real, is just how much of a genre mashup it is. It borrows from other fiction, but it borrows from everywhere; its inspirations are as futuristic as Star Trek, as retro as Lord of the Rings, and also include World War Two movies, seventies conspiracy thrillers, Westerns, auto racing movies, and that’s in no way a comprehensive list.
… Which is, y’know, how real life works. Real life worlds don’t have a “genre.” Not just one, at any rate.
I wasn’t crazy about the Boba Fett series on Disney+, but the one thing that did make me laugh was all the critics whining about the cyberpunk bikers and how they “weren’t Star Wars.” What, you’re okay with the cowboys and Indians on the Far West planet, the Samurai wizards, the giant slug Mafia, the Nazis in space, Steve Canyon in space, and Harrison Ford doing his best impression of Smoky and the Bandit in space, but bikers and cyberpunk, that’s a hill you want to die on? This is Star Wars. Any genre and trope you can imagine exists somewhere in the universe. That’s part of the charm.
Dirge
I’m not a romance reader, but some of the fantasy/sci-fi authors I read have strayed into it:
T Kingfisher’s Paladin’s Oath series is quite good.
Bujold’s stuff is great and at time leans into romance.
Princess
@Barbara: I’m having the same problem. I love fantasy but I’m finding a lot of books have a great hook and sometimes good writing but the hook/gimmick is so prominent, there’s not much actual plot behind them. Recently I could not finish Kuang’s Babel, even though the basic hook was right up my alley. Now I’m almost finished 10,000 Doors of January and, while I like it better, it’s also sort of meh. I keep waiting for it to get going but I guess it’s just going to end.
karen marie
I saw “romance” and thought “meh, not for me,” but then I saw Sanderson’s name. I’m glad it came up. I’m about a quarter of the way into Sanderson’s “Elantris.” There are some issues with things being a bit silly or inconsistent but it’s an interesting world and the characters are engaging. I’m heartened to hear that he’s got other readable (or, in my case, listenable) things going.
Thanks for the post!
Kristine
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I first read SF in the early-mid 70s, maybe even late 60s. Asimov, mostly. Lots of short stories. Then I fell away until the mid-90s when I realized that, given my first wip was SF, it would be a good idea to see what was being published. Found Bujold, then Moon. Wow, look at all these female protags with full lives.
It’s a good idea to read outside your genre comfort zone at least once in a while, and I admire the fact that you did that. My fantasy is pretty much limited to the Discworld books—the Sanderson book sounds good.
Alison Rose
Funny, I seem to be the opposite of many here, in that I almost never DNF books. In 2023, I read 180 books and DNF’d 2. Part of it is that I like to give a book a solid chance to get good. I’ve read plenty that I wasn’t immediately pulled in by, but by a third in or halfway, then I was way more engaged. But even if I’m still not super enjoying it, I still tend almost always to finish because I want to give my full thoughts on the book when I review it, even if those thoughts are “LOL garbage”.
Scout211
I think most people think that. And yet, there are movies and shows and series that have stories and plot lines that are exactly like so many of the romance novels I read.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@karen marie: How funny. Sanderson has a ton of books but the only two I’ve read are the one I read for this project and Elantris. I believe he was the writer chosen to finish Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series after Jordan died. (If I’m wrong about that, I’m sure someone will tell me.)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Scout211: Jane Austen is the ur romance novelist.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Alison Rose: Do you review everything you read? That a lot of reviews. I’m usually hit or miss.
mali muso
I’ll out myself as an avid reader of the romance genre. In recent years, all my reading has shifted to audiobook versions as it’s easier to fit in with child-rearing responsibilities, etc. I’m curious to see what the other nominees in the category were.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@mali muso: Here’s a link to the finalists in a most of the categories. Maybe you’ve read some?
I listen to audiobooks in the car because driving is so boring.
karen marie
@Princess: I have two recommendations – Robert Asprin‘s “Phule” series – I listened to all of it on Audible and enjoyed it very much – and Tom Holt’s “YouSpace” series, which I absolutely adore. It’s very weird. I think “Donut,” the first book in the series, was a free listen on Audible. Books 3 and 4 in the series aren’t quite up to the first two but by the end of book 2, I had developed an affection for the characters and carried on.
As other authors do, Holt has issues with Audible and isn’t making anything further available there. He’s instead using Libro.fm.
I haven’t started a membership there (yet) because Audible and Librivox are keeping me occupied but at some point I’ll go there to get another Tom Holt fix.
Splitting Image
I’m doing a chronological binge run through all of my Jane Austen adaptations and today I watched the 1987 version of Northanger Abbey, not commonly described as one of the better adaptations. The original novel might be the book that established that there is a lot of crossover between the readers of gothic horror and romantic comedies. I’ll have to re-read the novel to get the adaptation out of my head.
Next up are all of the 1990s adaptations, most of which are very good. But I don’t get another crack at NA until I reach 2007.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Splitting Image: Now that is a fun project.
RSA
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@karen marie: I never heard of Libro.fm. Thanks for the pointer.
My publisher is a registered social enterprise in the UK. They had to qualify. It means they do business in a socially responsible way and donate etc. Libro would fit right in.
Anyway
I’m judgey about genres and tend not to pick up YA, fantasy, romantasy (?? first I’m hearing of it), historical fiction, true-crime …. easier to list what I do read — contemporary fiction is my favorite genre. I liked what Dorothy said about not dissing entire categories and will try to keep that in mind.
dnfree
@Alison Rose: I think you’re younger than some of us. At my age I have a big pile of things I want to read, and lists of more, and I’m very aware of the limited time remaining.
NotMax
@dnfree
It’s (what used to be called) space opera.
Penty
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Murderbot is a great series and if you like audio versions I can really recommend Graphic Audio’s version.
https://www.graphicaudio.net/our-productions/series/k-r/the-murderbot-diaries.html
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Dirge: I love Bujold.
I think romance is a normal part of human behavior, so it pops up everywhere. I guess it’s a question of the amount of emphasis it receives.
Alison Rose
@Dorothy A. Winsor: On Goodreads, yes. Not NYT-length reviews or anything :) I only started reviewing every book in…2019? I think. Before that it was sort of random.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Penty: In the audio books, is the Murderbot narrator male or female? Martha Wells carefully avoids telling us.
karen marie
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I missed this! If people sign up for a Libro.fm membership ($14.99/month, like Audible) using this link, I get a “free” book for each new account!
FelonyGovt
I don’t really read Romance. Limited Fantasy as well, although I really like T.J. Klune with his quirky, feel-good books full of adorable little robots and the like.
I just finished a book called The Fiction Writer by Jillian Cantor. Not to spoil it for anyone, but the main (female) character acts SO STUPID around the obviously troubled and duplicitous man (“People’s Sexiest Man Alive”) that I almost threw my iPad across the room several times.
And I find that I DNF books more and more. I’m old, there are lots of books to read, and I don’t want to waste time on something that doesn’t grab me fairly early on
Alison Rose
@Splitting Image: Northanger Abbey is my fave Austen novel, but I’ve never seen an adaptation because I’m afraid it wouldn’t be good enough. Do you happen to know of one you think is strong?
Princess
@karen marie: thanks! I love recommendations.
Alison Rose
@dnfree: Eh, I’m 43. Young by Balloon Juice standards, but not young per se. And trust me, my TBR list is massive. I have 665 books on my “want-to-read-unowned” shelf on GR and that’s probably not even half of the truth.
But I’m stubborn when it comes to books. It typically has to be either incredibly boring or grossly offensive for me to quit.
MattF
Speaking of ‘Science Fiction’ as a genre— it really does exist and it’s not Fantasy. A good example is Hail Mary by Andy Weir. It has a lot of fictional science… maybe not surprisingly.
Penty
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Like the books Murderbot doesn’t have a sex, but it is a male voice actor. But not an in your face one. They have samples for each book here is a link to the first one, if it works.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/graphicaudiosamples/MURDERBOTDIARIES01.mp3
Chris
@Kristine:
I need to read more of these. Only read Guards! Guards! so far.
Princess
I don’t think of Austen so much as a romance writer — I think of her more as a satirist and a skewerer of contemporary manners and morals. But I know I have a different take on what she’s doing, especially in P&P than most.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Penty: That’s a pleasant voice.
When I read a Murderbot book, I think of the Murderbot as female, probably because it’s in first person and on some level, for me, “I” is female unless told otherwise.
Chris
@Alison Rose:
Whoof.
I used to read three or four books a week. What really did a number on my reading habit was Covid and WFH. I used to have an hour on the metro in each direction, five times a day, to get my reading done. Then Covid happened and ever since I’ve worked from home, or driven to a non-metro-accessible main office. It’s been an improvement in a lot of ways, but there’s always something to do at home; public transportation used to be the one time of the week where I literally couldn’t do anything but read for a prolonged period of time.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Princess: Oh clearly, she a satirist. And a sharp one! “Gentle Jane” is hooey. I think books can be more than one thing at a time.
Alison Rose
@Chris: Definitely keep reading the City Watch arc. It’s fantastic.
dnfree
@Alison Rose: Your stubborn intention to finish might look different by the time you’re closer to 80!
My grandmother (born in 1894) once told me that HER grandmother liked to drink hot water, which seemed bizarre to my grandmother at the time. “But when I got to be 90, I discovered hot water tastes pretty good!”, my grandmother finished.
Alison Rose
The best Jane Austen commentary:
Splitting Image
@Kristine:
Oh god yes. Comic books are the same.
Spider-Man’s editorial staff has spent the last 20 years insisting that Peter Parker being married to Mary Jane made him unrelatable. They had Peter make a deal with the literal devil to get rid of the marriage and they thought that was an improvement.
I check in on Marvel and DC every so often and just have to shake my head. They’re both ongoing train wrecks. 15 years of blockbuster movies has translated into approximately zero new comic book readers and it’s because the old guard are very choosy about the readers they want. No one with cooties allowed.
Ken
Silly me, I saw “romantasy” a few days ago in the comments section and assumed it was fantasy novels set in a (pseudo-)Roman milieu. Which I’ve seen, though nowhere near as often as the romance-fantasies.
I have a slight aversion to romantasies, but that’s largely Laurell K. Hamilton’s work — for which we need a different coinage, perhaps “porntasy”. Charlaine Harris is much better at romance, and can write sexual encounters without getting graphic.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ken: My go-to Roman books are Lindsey Davis’s Marcus Didius Falco books. Private-eye stories set in ancient Rome.
Kristine
@Chris:
That’s a favorite of mine—most all the Night Watch and Witches books are faves. Also loved Mort. Not a fan of Rincewind the Wizard but I still read them.
Small Gods is iirc a standalone and in a class by itself.
Splitting Image
@Alison Rose:
I only know of two adaptations: one by the BBC in 1987 and one by ITV in 2007. The BBC version is a disaster. They basically stripped all of the satire out of the book and did it as a straight gothic story.
The ITV version is better, but it’s still a TV-movie, which means that a good deal of the book has been cut out for time reasons. It’s the only Austen novel that has never been adapted as a mini-series, so there is no “complete” version out there.
I keep hoping that will change, but for the moment I don’t think there is a really strong one. A shame, because the heyday of the Twilight series would have been the perfect time to do a full adaptation of the book.
Princess
@Dorothy A. Winsor: definitely!
kalakal
I started reading SF in the late 60s, mostly people like Asimov, Clarke and lesser known British authors like Edmund Cooper & Bob Shaw. Fantasy I got into via Narnia, Susan Cooper, and the wonderful Alan Garner*. Still read both, eg the late Iain Banks, Alastair Reynolds etc but have also ended up reading a lot of Romantasy thanks to Bookbub and Kindle. There’s a lot of dross in the bargain basement, some absolute gems and a fair amount of ok stuff and a lot of it is at ok or giveaway prices.
I also have to admire the work ethic, one person whose stuff I enjoy from the Bookbub cheapies is Lindsay Buroker , it’s very light, hardly Tolstoy, who turns out Romances with SF or Fantasy backgrounds at a great rate. They’re perfect for me after a hard day, light and with a fun sense of humour
* I cannot recommend The Owl Service, The Weirdstone of Brisingamen, and The Moon of Gomrath enough
Alison Rose
@Splitting Image: Gosh, I wish someone would do a mini-series of it. It’s the shortest of her novels, so it seems like it would be ideal for it. And yeah, the notion of stripping out the satire is…bonkers to me. That would be like removing the Hobbits from LOTR.
Ken
“And he’s got a motorcycle and a tattoo.”
I am not a big reader of YA, much less YA fantasy romances, but I have to imagine that there are a few where the parents don’t approve of the werewolf that’s dating their daughter. Perhaps even bringing in the old trope where the father’s polishing his shotgun when the boy arrives for the date — “And I’ve loaded it with silver buckshot…”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Suburban Mom: I’m still thinking about what I found attractive in Fourth Wing. I think it’s because flawed as the book is, it’s clearly about its characters. I was drawn to them and cared about them.
I look forward to hearing about you talking to your son’s girlfriend about the sex scenes. :-)
frosty
@dnfree: Star Wars is both, which is what made the first movie so great. It combined sword snd sorcery (fantasy) and military spaceships (SF). I don’t think that had been done before.
Timill
@Dorothy A. Winsor: How are you getting on with Flavia Albia?
Kristine
@Splitting Image:
That’s a damned shame because the movies made me a fan of Dr. Strange, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, and I would like to try the comics but the length and complexity of story lines scare me a little. But now in addition I’m wondering about the reception 65 yo me would get if I walked into a comics store and told them I was buying for myself, not my teenaged grandson.
Tehanu
I just finished reading Sense and Sensibility by, wait for it, Joanna Trollope. Same story, same characters, but set now — and it works! Highly recommend it. In the same vein, Curtis Sittenfeld’s Eligible — P&P set in Cincinnati.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Timill: I read just the first of the books with her as the central character. I enjoyed it but haven’t picked up another yet. I think I like Falco better.
Miss Bianca
@Suburban Mom: I thought so, definitely – although Dorothy has articulated the problem with it really neatly – I just couldn’t imagine a world where an elite corps of cadets were basically just allowed to kill each other and the reaction of the adult officers was basically, “shruggies”. Uh…no.
On the other hand, compulsively readable, if a combination of The Dragonriders of Pern, Hunger Games, and a dash of Hogwarts might be your jam. :)
Scout211
That right there is the essence of a good romance (or women’s fiction) novel. The main focus is on the characters and their emotions and their relationships. Good romance authors draw their characters in ways that make you care about them, understand them and even identify with them.
Mysteries tend to be written with the mystery as the central focus, which is often more thought-provoking but rarely more emotion-driven or character-driven than a well-written romance novel.
I like being drawn in to the emotions of the characters. And a good author writes characters who the reader cares about.
NotMax
@Kristine
You might get a chuckle or three out of the modestly budgeted labor of love series JourneyQuest.
kalakal
I’m not sure if they can be classed as SF, Romantasy or exactly what genre they are but I love Jasper Fforde’s Thursday Next books. Set in an alternate world where books and their characters can interact with the real world they’re very funny indeed. There’s also a world within the literary world for fairy stories. Aside from Pratchett and Christopher Moore probably the only other SF/fantasy humourist I really enjoy is Robert Rankin, who is delightfully eccentric in real life. Author of such gems as East of Ealing, The Sprouts of Wrath*, The Brightonomnicon, and The Big Over Easy there also hard to classify but a lot of fun
*He has a thing about Brussel Sprouts
lowtechcyclist
I’d just tell ’em, A Wrinkle in Time, Madeleine L’Engle, 1962.
kalakal
@Tehanu:
True, but the title of the thread is Romance, Romantasy, and Fantasy.
I don’t come across many people these days who’ve read Garner, seems a pity to me
Princess
@kalakal: Garner is wonderful. I came to him only a couple of years ago — somehow I missed his ones for children when I was a child. He isn’t for everyone but those of who he is for, wow.
FelonyGovt
@kalakal: I really enjoy Jasper Fforde and the Thursday Next books. I particularly like his “Nursery Crimes@ series, alas only two books.
kalakal
@FelonyGovt: I love the Nursery Crimes books
Suburban Mom
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I was thinking I would start the conversation elsewhere. Sexy scenes don’t bother me generally. The GF reads quite a bit of romance and my escapist preference runs more toward mysteries (the Falco books are wonderful) and police procedurals. I thought it would be good to bond over a book she liked.
kalakal
@Princess: So nice to find a fellow fan! His children’s books were really popular in England in the 60s and 70s but outside of that demographic I almost always get a blank look
Splitting Image
@Kristine:
Most of the store-owners would probably be fine, although the Comic Book Guy on The Simpsons was based on a genuine “type”. I don’t think he’s that common any more.
It’s more the quality of the comics. Every time I look in on the Avengers, they’ve made the Scarlet Witch go crazy, turn evil, and kill a bunch of people. Again.
Most of the major characters have some good reddit threads with suggestions about where to get started. There are some bright spots amidst the ruins.
O. Felix Culpa
@kalakal:
We lived in Hong Kong when my kids were young (and HK was still a British colony), so they read Garner’s children’s books. Plus Beano. A somewhat different genre.
Miss Bianca
@kalakal: OK, never heard of Alan Garner, but just placed a hold on The Owl Service. Thank you, Colorado Library Systems!
Pete Mack
I agree that part of the disdain for romance is because of its readership. But the other part that so much of the genre is absolute connect-the-dots trash. While there is plenty of that in fantasy (and SF), the genre has one advantage: it doesn’t pay as well so there’s less book mill stuff. Except on Amazon, shudder.
Kristine
@Splitting Image:
Yeah, well, that’s what they did to her in the DS movie, too. I keep trying to tell myself that they were adhering to the comics canon, but I was disappointed. I really liked her, and given that it doesn’t look like the Multiverse concept is playing well, I’m not thinking she’ll come back as a different SW.
Not a fan of how the MCU handled some of their female characters.
Never waded into Reddit. Maybe I will—thanks for the tip.
RaflW
I admit I recently read a romance novel. Alexis Hall’s Boyfriend Material. I don’t know that I’d have read it if it wasn’t gay, and quite silly, but it did tug at the heart strings at least a little. But I also couldn’t shake the feeling that he churns these out.
I bogged down on Hall’s 10 Things That Never Happened because it felt a bit too similar.
My go to these days is often Y.A. fiction. A couple decades age I read tons of very New York gay fiction, guys like Allan Hollinghurst, Edmund White, Felice Picano. A lot of good stuff but after working in an LGBTQ bookstore for two years and reading literally about 100 novels for gay men, I took a loooooong break.
Y.A. fiction and adjacent, like the recent bestseller House in the Cerulean Sea has finally recaptured my desire to read. I think I’ve also recommended Adib Khorram, but I don’t mind being repetitive, his two Darius books are deeply wonderful.
Chris
@Splitting Image:
I miss Captain America, Liberal Icon. There’s some hints of him in the MCU but they’ve mostly kept him generic enough that you can’t really narrow down his politics on one side of the aisle or the other.
RaflW
@FelonyGovt: I recently completed the three book Extraordinaries series by Klune. I’d not ever though of myself as someone how reads superhero books, but it turned out to be a worthwhile effort, and hopefully his depiction of an adhd kid was taken well by people in that community.
kalakal
@Miss Bianca: Hope you enjoy it. It’s a YA fantasy adaption of the Mabinogion – a big bit of Welsh mythology
pabadger
I mostly read nonfiction, with a little fantasy and sci-fi tossed in for good measure.
Currently reading People of the Wolf by Gear and O’Neal Gear. It’s about the first people in North America.
gwangung
@Chris: Really liked the Englehart-written issues where he fought
Richard Nixoner the Secret Empire and gave up the identity temporarily.Dirge
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I’m thinking of her Sharing Knife series, some of the last few VK books, a couple of the Penric pieces. It seems like she shifts gears and adopts a dual-perspective for these.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
It’s been 40 years since I read them but if I recall accurately Anne McCaffrey’s Dragonriders of Pern series had some romance elements (Dragonflight, Dragon quest, and The White Dragon). The Harper Hall of Pern books were more YA/PG (those were Dragonsinger, Dragonsong, Dragon Drums).
Sharon Kay Penman wrote a series set in the reign of King John that didn’t have any fantasy elements other than being set in the middle ages but if I recall did have romance elements and were mysteries…sort historical fiction romysteries.
As for the other Romantasy – the ones set in Roman times, if the Eastern half of the empire counts Guy Gabriel Kay’s Sarantium series are the only ones I know of.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Dirge: Yeah, I think that’s right.
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Kay is sometimes too violent for me, but his Sailing to Sarantium is beautiful and touching.
There’s some argument over whether you need magic for a book to be fantasy or if a created world (rather than history) is enough. I don’t think it matters for the story. Genre labels are mostly for marketing.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yeah I read Sailing to Sarantium but haven’t gotten around to the sequel. I like that he wrote two in the series and didn’t feel compelled to stretch it into a trilogy because that’s the standard for Fantasy series. I also really enjoyed Kay’s The Last Light of the Sun which features more violence than Sailing to Sarantium and involves Viking incursions into Wales so is not really connected to that series. I think it’s a stand alone rather than part of any series.
TheronWare
For anyone looking for some excellent High Fantasy reading and since Sanderson was mentioned, I would highly recommend Stormlight Archive.