Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

I was promised a recession.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

There is one struggling party in US right now, and it’s not the Democrats.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Cole is on a roll !

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

…and a burning sense of injustice to juice the soul.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Sources Close to Jared and Ivanka Say Privately They Oppose Forced Birth for 14 Year-Olds Carrying Rape Pregnancies

Sources Close to Jared and Ivanka Say Privately They Oppose Forced Birth for 14 Year-Olds Carrying Rape Pregnancies

by | 79 Comments

This post is in: 

This is not a New York Times link:

Donald Trump likes the idea of a national ban on abortion past 16 weeks of pregnancy with exceptions for rape, incest and to save the life of the mother, the New York Times reported on Friday morning.

Trump has veered away from taking a firm stance on abortion during his presidential campaign. He has taken credit for the US supreme court’s 2022 overturning of Roe v Wade, since he appointed three of the justices who took part in that decision, but he has also suggested that Republicans who take extreme stances on abortion lose elections.

“Know what it is about 16?” Trump told one individual, according to the Times, which based its report on two people with knowledge of Trump’s thoughts. “It’s even. It’s four months.”

Color me surprised, since what I thought Trump liked about 16 was that it is the age of consent in some states.

I’m sure Susan Collins will base her Trump endorsement on this bullshit, but come the fuck on.  It’s no surprise that the Republican-leaning NYT will print this shit, but I hope Democrats will use this opportunity of Trump raising this issue to point out that Republicans in power aren’t going to do shit unless it involves taking more rights away from women.

Also, I caved and got a Bluesky account, so if you want to follow me there, I’m mistermix.

Reader Interactions

79Comments

  1. 1.

    Albatrossity

    “Know what it is about 16?” Trump told one individual, according to the Times, which based its report on two people with knowledge of Trump’s thoughts. “It’s even. It’s four months.”

    Spoken like a true scientist…

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    Same dude who said the woman should receive some sort of punishment. Still a force for good, I see.

  3. 3.

    Raoul Paste

    TFG also promised universal healthcare  and a big infrastructure program during his 2016 campaign .  But naturally, the FTFNYT takes him at his word

  5. 5.

    Alison Rose

    I firmly believe Trump doesn’t give a single shit about abortion one way or the other. He’ll just say whatever he wants in a given moment that he thinks will benefit him.

  7. 7.

    cain

    @Alison Rose: Perhaps we will say that he will “art of the deal” with all women and negotiate with their bodies when it can abort fetuses.

    His people would be dumb enough to believe it too.

  8. 8.

    MattF

    Also, managing to ignore the completely unambiguous threats from the Abortion Thought Police that they fully intend to abolish contraception for people with lady-parts. The extremists will never give up or back down. This is their motto, and it is just a fact that everyone should know. And should be told, again and again.

  9. 9.

    rusty

    And we see how well exceptions for rape and incest have worked in every state where they have been imposed.

    This is the NYT getting played like a fiddle. Just another example of them softening extreme positions of Republicans by printing articles where “they really don’t mean it”, while continuing to advocate and legislate those exact same positions.  Who are you going to believe, the NYT or your lying eyes.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    As I said earlier, what’s more important than what he’ll ban is what he’d allow the states to do.  They want to pretend that they’re protecting abortion up to 16 weeks.

  13. 13.

    Scout211

    Color me extra suspicious that Jared (and Ivanka) are popping up in the media lately.

    Jared Kushner, former Trump adviser, defends business dealings with Saudi Arabia

    Former Presidential Advisor Jared Kushner Discusses Israel-Hamas War at Harvard Kennedy School

    Kushner says he’s not looking to return to White House

    Before Trump was elected, they totally swore that they would never be part of the a White House team.  People were just being ridiculous with that nonsense! Ugh.

    It does look like Jared is front and center on this one. But I did find this “important” article about Ivanka:

    Ivanka Trump shares a gushing photo tribute to husband Jared Kushner on Valentine’s Day

  17. 17.

    Elizabelle

    Ah.  This is the thread to pop in the free FTF NY Times link to Jamelle Bouie’s excellent column today.  Jeffro recommended it, and a Catherine Rampell column at the WaPost as well.

    Free link: Trump Owns Dobbs and Everything That Comes With It

    … despite the fact that Trump openly bragged about his pivotal role in overturning Roe v. Wade — many Americans don’t seem to blame the former president for the actions of the Supreme Court majority he assembled during his term.

    [December poll results: 24% likely voters blame Trump for abortion bans/restrictions. About 1/3 blame GOP in state offices and Congress; half blame the Supreme Court.]

    It is true that the Supreme Court made the ultimate decision on Roe. It is a political problem for the Democratic Party however, that voters — including many independents and rank-and-file Democrats — do not connect the actions of the court to those of the president who shaped and cemented its right-wing majority. And it’s this identification gap between Trump and the court that gives him the space to position himself against the Republican Party on abortion rights, which he’s trying to do right now.

    Trump, somehow, gets a mulligan. Voters — and to some extent the political media — have allowed him to set the signature events of his administration aside as if they don’t count, as if they don’t define his past performance and weigh on what he might do with a second term. The Trump mulligan allows him to promise the moon as if we don’t already know he can’t reach it. It allows him to stand for a return to normalcy when the only thing he can deliver is disarray.

    Why does Trump get this mulligan on his presidency? I think it owes a lot to his celebrity persona. Although Trump has not been on a major screen in Hollywood since 2015, when he was fired from NBC’s “The Apprentice,” he still retains the celebrity status he cultivated over decades in film and television. He is a politician — he was, again, president of the United States — but he’s not perceived as a politician. He is seen, even now, as outside of or somehow transcending traditional politics.

    The result is that many Americans don’t seem to hold Trump responsible for the political and policy consequences of his actions as president.

    ….The key to making this stick, I think, is for Democrats to resist the urge to treat Trump as exceptional. The more his opponents hold him up to the public as a dangerous gamble or a threatening aberration, the more they reinforce the outsider persona that makes him an electoral threat.

    …. [in recent elections] voters have held Republicans responsible for unpopular Republican policies. What Democrats have to do is hold Trump responsible for unpopular Republican policies.
    It may sound simple, even obvious, but the challenge of this election is to remind the voting public that Donald Trump is, in fact, a conservative Republican who, if elected again, will act in the manner of conservative Republicans.

  19. 19.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Just dropped today:

    NEW YORK (AP) — The mild-mannered Franklin — the first Black character in the “Peanuts” comic strip — gets to shine in his own animated Apple TV+ special this month in a story about friendship.

    Franklin is a newcomer who bonds with Charlie Brown and is welcomed to the Peanuts universe in “Snoopy Presents: Welcome Home, Franklin,” which premieres on Friday.

    Co-writer Robb Armstrong, the cartoonist behind the “Jump Start” strip., says he’s building on the blueprints that “Peanuts” creator Charles Schulz left. “Whenever you start with good ingredients, you have to work hard to make a bad cake out of it,” he says.

    Race is never explicitly mentioned but Armstrong and co-writer Scott Montgomery make a subtle nod when Franklin surveys the kids in his new town and remarks, “One thing was for sure: There was a lack of variety in this place.”

    “I never wanted to come off preachy or anything, but it needed to be handled in the same way that I handled it in ‘Jump Start,’” says Armstrong. “I don’t come out and call people anything. I let the characters participate in a problem solving process.”

    The portrait of Franklin that emerges is of a boy who likes baseball and outer space, is good with his hands and listens to Stevie Wonder, Little Richard, James Brown and John Coltrane.

  22. 22.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty:  That is the main complaint NY Times reader commenters are making!  Over and over again.

    They are indeed radicals and extremists

    I think you have a LOT of embarrassed Republicans saying that Trump is not even one of them.  He just says anything to get elected.

  23. 23.

    dmsilev

    @Betty: Honestly, if the word “conservative” becomes associated in people’s minds “with frothingly-mad reactionary”, I’m ok with that.

  24. 24.

    Another Scott

    Kinda relatedly, Matt Gaetz has been in the news again… TheDailyBeast.com:

    […]

    Last year, prosecutors announced they were declining to file charges against Gaetz, while also refusing to publicly offer an explanation. That decision, almost exactly one year ago, gave rise to frustration and outrage among key witnesses in the case, including women who had come forward to provide intimate and detailed accounts of their interactions, according to interviews with lawyers and witnesses in the matter.

    “The fact that nothing has come of it has kind of astonished her, who along with all the others had been the focal point of such an intense investigation,” the woman’s lawyer said. “For them to go through all that and then for the target of the investigation to just get a wink and a nod has created for some of them a loss of faith in the system.”

    Not long after prosecutors tabled their investigation, the Ethics Committee reopened its own probe, which it initiated in 2021 but quickly put on ice in deference to the DOJ. Since then, the committee has reached out to several key witnesses, including the former 17-year-old at the center of the sex trafficking allegations, Greenberg, and an ex-girlfriend of Gaetz’s, according to news reports and sources familiar with the events.

    The Ethics probe appears to have rattled Gaetz. Last month, The Daily Beast reported that he privately told colleagues that the rebooted investigation was the reason he waged his scorched-earth campaign to oust then-House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. The months of infighting destroyed key allegiances within the House GOP, eroding trust and sowing enmity between members, feeding a stream of embarrassing headlines. Republicans still have not recovered from the damage.

    Gaetz’s close associate, Greenberg, struck a deal with prosecutors in May 2021, pleading guilty to child sex trafficking, fraud, and an array of other federal offenses. In his plea agreement, Greenberg admitted he had also connected the former 17-year-old to other unnamed “adult men” who had sex with her while she was still underage. After several proffers and deferments, Greenberg was eventually sentenced in December 2022, receiving 11 years in prison.

    In a confession letter Greenberg penned in 2020 as part of his pursuit of a pardon from then-President Donald Trump, Greenberg wrote that Gaetz also paid to have sex with the 17-year-old, as The Daily Beast previously reported. In his letter, Greenberg noted the exact date that he accessed a DMV database to learn that the teen in question was underage.

    “Immediately I called the congressman and warned him to stay clear of this person and informed him she was underage,” Greenberg wrote. “He was equally shocked and disturbed by this revelation.”

    But that new information apparently didn’t scare Gaetz or Greenberg off from the teen. The Daily Beast previously reported about a Venmo payment from Gaetz to Greenberg about eight months later, where Gaetz asked his friend to “hit up” the teen. She had turned 18 just five months prior to that Venmo transaction, and Gaetz was 36 at the time—twice her age.

    […]

    (Emphasis added.)

    Don’t believe all the wringing of hands about how difficult it is for Johnson because no chairman has loyalty to him since Qevin not Johnson appointed them, etc., etc. These monsters made their own beds.

    I’m reminded of the goings-on with Paxton in Texas (he was untouchable, then there was a sudden trial in the Texas legislature, then the was suddenly acquitted, then there was news that some legislators wanted to do-over because he lied about the settlement) – it’s all about personal power.

    All this stuff is connected. These monsters think they are ENTITLED [/Rmoney] to ignore the rules and the laws.

    We need to vote them out.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    We were only supposed to get an inch or so of freezing rain/sleet/snow. It’s thundering now. So I guess all bets are off. Could be 2″ maybe 4″ maybe ?, I don’t see us getting 18″, it’s just not that strong a front.

  29. 29.

    Sean

    Doesn’t this hurt him with no abortion, ever, dead enders? There’s plenty of those votes in the GOP. Do they stay home? Also, I imagine news publications would do well to point out this type of ban isn’t going to pre-empt state bans. it will just extend bans to blue states. I feel like that message will inevitably be lost.

  30. 30.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Another Scott: Also too, this woman was 21 at the time, but….

    When ABC News reported on Wednesday that the House Ethics Committee had acquired text messages between a young woman involved in the sex trafficking investigation and Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), a Gaetz spokesperson told ABC that the congressman “does not know anything about the woman you’re referencing.” That seems extraordinarily unlikely.

    The Daily Beast can now report that this woman told prosecutors in 2021 that she had sex with Gaetz at a drug-fueled party that she was paid to attend, according to the woman’s attorney. This attorney told The Daily Beast on Thursday that the woman, in fact, received payments in connection with multiple sex parties with people in Gaetz’s circle.

    “She told them that she and lots of girls were provided all kinds of controlled substances at these parties,” the lawyer said, confirming a number of news reports about the gatherings.

  31. 31.

    Chat Noir

    Here in Missouri, we are in the process of putting abortion rights on the November ballot. The goal is to get upwards of 300,000 signatures statewide. The coalition to get this done is diverse!

  32. 32.

    VFX Lurker

    I live in California. An older man who lives in Idaho (but commutes frequently to California for work-related reasons) talked to me about how moving from California to Idaho was the best thing he ever did. His cost of living (mostly housing) dropped to 1/6th of its previous cost. He recommended Idaho as a great place to live.

    I conceded that moving to Idaho worked well for him, but that people trying to start families might want to stay out of Idaho. He insisted that I was wrong — that Idaho was a great place for families. I noted that if something went wrong with a pregnancy, Idahoans had to travel to Washington for medical care. Again, he dismissed my concerns, saying that “the media” blew such stories all out of proportion. From his perspective, Idaho had excellent medical care.

    I did not use the word “abortion” during our discussion. Maybe he knew what I meant; maybe he didn’t. He didn’t seem like someone who thought much about a post-Dobbs world.

    I didn’t even touch on families that got past the risks of pregnancy and birth, but might have trans kids who need medical care.

  35. 35.

    Elizabelle

    Another Scott put up a link to this free Pro Publica story, about Mayron and Chris, their precarious life in Tennessee (Mayron had already had 3 children removed from her custody; she was 3 years sober at age 31 after starting drug abuse at age 12), and the unplanned pregnancy, three months after their daughter Zooey was born.  Their struggles, the miserly state programs, Mayron cycling in and out of the justice system.

    ProPublica.org – The year after Dobbs

    But the Supreme Court had just overturned Roe v. Wade, which guaranteed the right to abortion across the United States. By the time Mayron decided to end her pregnancy, Tennessee’s abortion ban — one of the nation’s strictest — had gone into effect.

    The total ban made no explicit exceptions — not even to save the life of a pregnant patient. Any doctor who violated the ban could be charged with a felony.

    Women with means could leave the state. But those like Mayron, with limited resources or lives entangled with the child welfare and criminal justice systems, would be the most likely to face caring for a child they weren’t prepared for.

    And so, the same state that questioned Mayron’s fitness to care for her four children forced her to continue a pregnancy that risked her lifeto have a fifth, one that would require more intensive care than any of the others.

  36. 36.

    Geminid

    @Sean: This stance would likely hurt Trump with the anti-abortion crowd if Trump announced it in public. That’s why it’s being put out there the way it is, as insider gossip. And the people pushing harsher restrictions on women’s autonomy know they control the Republican party anyway, and that Trump will go along with their plans. It’s clear he doesn’t care about anything but himself.

    Trump has no other principles or convictions. Not all of his followers understand this but the preacher/politicians do.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    @VFX Lurker:

    Again, he dismissed my concerns, saying that “the media” blew such stories all out of proportion. From his perspective, Idaho had excellent medical care.

    1. I wonder how many times it has to happen for it to not be out of proportion.
    2. I have no idea what type of medical care he has had in Idaho, but I do now that Idaho on Tuesday will file a brief in the US Supreme Court that will argue that it has a right to deny women abortions who face emergency situations.
  41. 41.

    gene108

    @Alison Rose:

    I firmly believe Trump doesn’t give a single shit about abortion one way or the other. He’ll just say whatever he wants in a given moment that he thinks will benefit him.

    He’s very very good at it. It’s his superpower in dealing with the U.S. media and Republican voters. They go along believing what he says.

  42. 42.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Still no drag queens or trans people involved….

    Tens of thousands of Hungarians protested in Budapest on Friday at the biggest rally against Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s government for years, after a sex-abuse case pardon by President Katalin Novak caused public uproar and led to her resignation.

    Conservative Orban, who has been in power since 2010, has sought to defuse the week-old scandal that brought down two of his key political allies, the president and former justice minister Judit Varga, but it has continued to dominate domestic media.

    The motives behind the pardoning of a man who helped cover up sexual abuse in a children’s home, that led to the resignation of the president, remain unclear. Orban’s ruling Fidesz party tried to win back the narrative, saying mistakes on its side had consequences unlike those made by the opposition.

    Orban has been passing anti-LBGTQ+ laws for years, under the guise of protecting children.

    Every accusation, a confession.

  44. 44.

    Jinchi

    @trollhattan: Same dude who said the woman should receive some sort of punishment.

    I thought that was just for all the trouble they’ve given him, personally.

  46. 46.

    Alison Rose

    LOLLLLL suck it bitch

    A New York judge on Friday handed Donald J. Trump a crushing defeat in his civil fraud case, finding the former president liable for conspiring to manipulate his net worth and ordering him to pay a penalty of more than $350 million that could wipe out his entire stockpile of cash.

    The decision by Justice Arthur F. Engoron caps a chaotic, yearslong case in which New York’s attorney general put Mr. Trump’s fantastical claims of wealth on trial. With no jury, the power was in Justice Engoron’s hands alone, and he came down hard: The judge delivered a sweeping array of punishments that threatens the former president’s business empire as he simultaneously contends with four criminal prosecutions and seeks to regain the White House

    Not only did Justice Engoron impose a three-year ban preventing Mr. Trump from serving in top roles at any New York company, including his own, but the judge also applied that punishment to the former president’s adult sons for two years. One of the sons, Eric Trump, is the Trump Organization’s de facto chief executive, and the ruling throws into doubt whether any member of the family can run the business in the near term.

    Mr. Trump will appeal the financial penalty — which could climb to $400 million or more once interest is added — but will have to either come up with the money or secure a bond within 30 days. The ruling will not render him bankrupt, because most of his wealth is tied up in real estate.

  47. 47.

    cain

    @dmsilev: They make everything related to us as a dirty word. Liberal, progressives, etc are all considered dirty words in their space. Let’s return the favor.

  51. 51.

    Mike in NC

    We can never hear enough about abortion from a convicted rapist, can we? Please proceed, Fat Bastard.

  52. 52.

    Paul in KY

    @Alison Rose: You are right. He’s completely transactional. Will say ‘I like A’ if he perceives some benefit for him right then and there. 10 minutes later will say ‘I hate A’, if he now thinks that benefits him.

  57. 57.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Trump Ordered To Pay $364M In Fraud Case

    Plus

    Not only did Justice Engoron impose a three-year ban preventing Mr. Trump from serving in top roles at any New York company, including his own, but the judge also applied that punishment to the former president’s adult sons for two years. One of the sons, Eric Trump, is the Trump Organization’s de facto chief executive, and the ruling throws into doubt whether any member of the family can run the business in the near term.

  60. 60.

    Leto

    The ruling will not render him bankrupt, because most of his wealth is tied up in real estate.

    The talking heads were doing their thing this morning, and said that he’s potentially not as liquid as it would seem due to the Trumpov University ruling, and the fact he had to take loans (or something?) to cover that ruling at $25M. And that was… 7 years ago? Roughly? So here’s to the hope he has to do some fire selling of his real estate properties to cover some of this. (Yeah, I know that won’t happen but HOPE people! :P )

  61. 61.

    Alison Rose

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha fork over $364 million fuckface ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha oops I mean how terrible for Donald Trump
    — Jeff Tiedrich (@itsJeffTiedrich) February 16, 2024

  62. 62.

    gwangung

    @VFX Lurker:

    I conceded that moving to Idaho worked well for him, but that people trying to start families might want to stay out of Idaho. He insisted that I was wrong — that Idaho was a great place for families. I noted that if something went wrong with a pregnancy, Idahoans had to travel to Washington for medical care. Again, he dismissed my concerns, saying that “the media” blew such stories all out of proportion.

    VERY easy for him to say. He never had to worry about pregnancy.

    The asshole.

  63. 63.

    Leto

    @Sister Golden Bear: listen… there’s plenty of places Eric can go, sniff glue, and be Crayon Eating Officer. I’m sure Jr has a stash of nose candy, but not sure how long it will last. As far as who can control the branding empire… who cares. Maybe MBS can come to the rescue.

  64. 64.

    Elizabelle

    LOL.  NY Post banner headline:  MAGA MILLIONS

    Knocked Prince Harry right off the top story on the site, it did.

  65. 65.

    RandomMonster

    Losing loser Donald Trump loses a lot.

    I’ve been waiting all day all year for this good news.

  66. 66.

    randy khan

    I think the experience in Virginia suggests that this kind of approach is a strategic error, so I’m actually kind of pleased to hear that Trump may be going this way.  And the 16 weeks = 4 months comment pretty convinces me that this is the straight dope.

  68. 68.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Chat Noir: They are insisting I give them my cell #. I don’t give it out, not to anybody but people I know. They won’t even allow me to show up at a “sign the petition” event without me giving them my cell # before they will tell me where one is.

    Maybe I’ll send them some money. I’ll have to think on it.

  69. 69.

    rikyrah

    There ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.

     

    Please point to be out, in these Red States, where the EXCEPTIONS are honored, and women get their abortions.

  70. 70.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Leto: So here’s to the hope he has to do some fire selling of his real estate properties to cover some of this. (Yeah, I know that won’t happen but HOPE people! :P )

    I’m not so sure. I have read that he lives on borrowed money. If all his properties have loans tied to them, how liquid can he be? What will he have to do to raise that kind of dough?

    Not saying any of the above are absolute facts, but knowing trump as we do….

  72. 72.

    Mike in NC

    We shouldn’t rest until the entire Trump Klan are reduced to living in a cardboard crate on Skid Row somewhere. They could have stayed in their golden tower in Manhattan and continued to run their dozens of scams and ripoffs, but their insatiable greed and gluttony got in the way. Is it Happy Hour yet?

  76. 76.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​
     

    As I said earlier, what’s more important than what he’ll ban is what he’d allow the states to do. They want to pretend that they’re protecting abortion up to 16 weeks.

    This. I’m sure it’s already been said, but this would just cut the blue states down to 16 weeks, while allowing more draconian abortion bans elsewhere. Heads they win, tails we lose.

    We just gotta win us some elections this November, that’s all there is to it.

  77. 77.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Scout211: ​

    Former Presidential Advisor Jared Kushner Discusses Israel-Hamas War at Harvard Kennedy School

    They misspelled ‘Nepotism Hire.’

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