But first — Congratulations, DougJ! Proud to have known you when:
The primary ethos of the New York Times (institutionally speaking) is sullen pissiness, so yes, this is very likely directly because of @DougJBalloon. https://t.co/Mj3GJ026fA
— Nathan Goldwag šŗš¦ (@GoldwagNathan) May 9, 2024
Interesting BlueSky convo on the eternal Democratic Party problem…
The thing that I think a lot of these conversations miss is the fractiousness of the coalition Dems have to assemble to win. Republicans have the advantage of mostly being able to run on generalized malice and negative partisanship and hold their coalition together.
— The Fig Economy (@figgityfigs.bsky.social) May 5, 2024 at 8:23 AM
Thatās not to say that Dems shouldnāt try to win over different parts of their coalition. Only that itās a broad and diverse coalition, and there are tradeoffs implicit in paying attention to one part instead of another.
Sure, Biden needs young voters to win. He also needs lots of older voters to win. And ones in between. And ones who, even if they agree on some issues, place far different priorities on them.
Itās one of the disadvantages to being in the anti-fascist coalition when fascists are pulling ~45% nationally at the ballot box. Just being against fascism isnāt enough to hold a group together normally, but when the threat is as pressing as it is now, it needs to be.
Like hereās one: I think the death penalty is morally impermissible in all instances. It makes me sick that we use it at all. I also realize that a politician taking that position is going to alienate a bunch of other people they need to win to do other good stuff.
So I donāt change my belief, but I accommodate for the fact that itās not the only one I hold, and the Democrats are closer to me on it than the Republicans are, by miles.
Johnston seems to consider it ābrowbeatingā when someone tries to counter disinformation and misinformation from the left regarding Bidenās record.
— Aubrey Gilleran (@aubreygilleran.bsky.social) May 5, 2024 at 8:37 AM
Yes, agreed completely. Though a lot of the vinegar I see is in response to some awfully dumb and malicious persistent stuff, and the expectation is that Dem boosters should sit there and take it with a smile and if they crack it means their position is wrong.
— The Fig Economy (@figgityfigs.bsky.social) May 5, 2024 at 8:46 AM
Thereās also the assumption that persuasion doesnāt exist and that the goal of a campaign is to find non-voters, which isnāt actually how the midterms went!
— Aubrey Gilleran (@aubreygilleran.bsky.social) May 5, 2024 at 8:48 AM
I donāt know if thatās inherent to left politics everywhere, but itās been a core belief among US lefties my whole adult life (30+ years). Utterly unfalsifiable.
— JRoth (@jmroth.bsky.social) May 5, 2024 at 1:26 PM
Baud
No one has to do anything. Everyone has maximum freedom.
Baud
Yay Doug!
Manyakitty
Wow, fancy pants! (Not you, Baud)
Adam Lang
Normally you determine something is falsifiable or unfalsifiable by testing it. Unfortunately the Democrats do not seem to be able to do that, since 99% of their GOTV effort and voter outreach is done via VAN which is expressly designed to only target high-propensity democratic voters.
Baud
@Adam Lang:
What is VAN?
Why would Dems target voters who are likely to vote? They usually leave me alone because I always vote.
gwangung
The discussion about Democratic Party coalition politics has it right. There is no single base; there are MULTIPLE bases. And ALL of them are vital to the party. And some of them disagree with other bases on certain issues—sometimes violently.
Way too many people are thinking that there is never a political cost to their favored course of action. Sometimes it’s small enough to be withstood…but oftentimes it’s far larger than they think it is (And, yeah, I think the current Israel/Palestine issue is one of them).
sab
Ohio GOP wants to keep Biden off the ballot in November. Of course they do. Current excuse is that Ohio wants you nominated 90 days before election, and our convention is too late. This has been a perennial problem that grownups always managed a workaround.
Not so this year. Makes me more hopeful about Democratic chances here. Why are they scared?
So, if we do get to write-in territory, remember that there is a little bubble you need to fill in for the machine to know that you have a write-in candidate.
Baud
@gwangung:
This reflects my feeling. I’ve learned not to think that most people were like me.
Citizen Alan
The death penalty issue is why I will hate Anti-Hillary Leftists forever. Because I truly think that if she’d taken office and eventually gotten to replace Scalia, the death penalty might have been struck down. All four libs were against it, IIRC. But no, the Bernie Bros didn’t care about that. Not even Susan “Dead Man Walking” Sarandon.
matt
What these guys always do is a cost benefit analysis with no notion of cost. Adopting a ‘Death to Israel’ policy is just the right thing to do, you get young voters! No votes would be lost there.
Ksmiami
@sab: then we can kick them off ballot in Pennsylvaniaā¦ this would become a war in no time
Ksmiami
@matt: youāre being sarcastic I presume
mrmoshpotato
Adorable.Ā Go fuck yourselves with rusty farm tools, New York Times.
Chris
Random, open thread question for anyone who understands English racial politics better than me:
So, I finally wrapped up Peaky Blinders.Ā Am I off-base, or would a Romani like Tommy Shelby being the right-hand man of a fascist movement like Oswald Mosley’s be a complete nonstarter in the real life 1930s?Ā I know the point is Tommy’s trying to undermine Mosley and Mosley is trying to use Tommy for his street connections, but it feels like someone like him in such a high position should have provoked enough outrage from the party’s supporters to wreck it before it got started.Ā Unless I’m missing something about either the nature of the BUF or the place of the Romani in England’s pecking order.
(I’d actually believe it a lot more if the story were set today, between the extent to which social norms have liberalized, and the extent to which the “trolling the libs” value of having a nonwhite person supporting Nazism would be appreciated by right-wingers, at least for a while).
WaterGirl
Wow. Ā That’s, what, the fifth time the NYT has shown itself as filled with, and run by, pissy little bitches.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Only five?
Chris
@WaterGirl:
Fifth time today, you mean?
different-church-lady
Theyāre not trolling Doug. He came up with that schtick because itās what theyĀ always do anyway.
bbleh
Is there anything left but going meta?
Persistent Bias In Times Reporting
Leads To Widespread Mockery
How Badly Will It Damage Biden?
A Times Panel Discussion
Baud
@bbleh:
Heh. That’s good.
counterfactual
@Chris: Ideological purity always collapses in the face of reality under fascism. I don’t want to depress myself, but I’m sure I could google for “Jews in the Nazi Party.”
In 1940, membership in the SS was limited to only the most Aryan of Aryans (though Jewish parents could be edited out for the right person). By 1943, French and Yugoslavs are Aryan if you look at it the right way. By 1945, the SS was recruiting Poles and Russians.
teezyskeezy
@different-church-lady: Maybe that’s the ironic joke.Ā So on the nose you almost have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are self aware of what they are doing. Sadly…they probably aren’t.
Baud
@counterfactual:
“An equal opportunity employer… now.”
sab
@Baud: I am so old that I remember when I got into tiffs with Dougj and kind jackals told me “this is Doug and he is trolling. Stop being such an ignorant twerp.”Ā Lessons to learn by.
Martin
@Baud: Voter Activation Network. Basically hitting up your likely voters to continue to be likely. There’s not a lot of reach to non-voters.
Jeffro
The difference between the two parties is, with some Democrats, one point of disagreement and they’re OUT; with most Republicans, if they can find even one point of agreement, they’re IN.
Democrat: “I disagree with President Biden’s policy on X, therefore I am voting trump/3rd party/staying home”
Republican: “I disagree with trump/the GOP on almost every issue, but…but…I gotta have mah gunz! Ā (or…moar tax cuts! Ā or…far-right judges! Ā or…muh gas guzzlin’ car!)
Baud
@Martin:
Thanks. First I’ve heard of it.Ā The GOTV stuff I’ve heard about was always about reaching unlikely voters.Ā I do recall they’ve tried to get likely voters to vote early so they could be crossed off the list.
ETA: I’m no expert. I can say that the Dems don’t bother with me at all.
Baud
@Jeffro:
We’re just a more diverse coalition.
Eolirin
@Jeffro: I think this is only really true of online discourse. The kind of person that actually vote switches on a regular basis tends to have weird politics and are super low information.
Otherwise they just don’t turn out.
Baud
@Eolirin:
They also get featured in mainstream media.
Martin
So, there’s been a lot of hand-wringing about how young people are going to cost Biden the election (just like BLM protestors cost him the election in 2020, amirite?) and if only we browbeat the young people and tell them they’re stupid they’ll come around. I think this stems from the belief that young people don’t vote (which I think is only slightly less cringe than the ‘young people don’t know anything’ take). Meanwhile, the UAW is out there backing the students (a lot of TAs are unionized under UAW) because, I guess labor is stupid too. Also, this movement has spread to Europe.
Regnad Kcin
@Adam Lang: VAN is a powerful tool, but I agree: it is *not* a strategy.
Martin
@Baud: Yeah. It’s not bad to shore up your base, and early outreach can help recruit volunteers, but you gotta do more than that. They hit me up reliably every year.
Baud
@Martin:
Every statistic I’ve ever seen shows voting increases linearly with age and always has.Ā Of course, margins matter.
Baud
@Martin:
They probably realize I’m more trouble than I’m worth. They’re not wrong.
Jeffro
OT but I have to say, I loved this: the headline, the reporting, and most of all, the fact that these K-12 leaders smacked the shit out of the GOP’s lying liars:
In Antisemitism Hearing, Public School Leaders
Take No ShitUpstaged Republicans and the Ivy League(ok I loved all of it except for the gratuitous swipe at the Ivies…)
sab
OT: I have two silly t-shirts. One says ” Housework is Over”. The other says ” Yardwork is Over.”
Everytime I wear the ” Housework is Over” t-shirt some strange man confronts me about what I mean. I mostly say “I hate housework. I do housework. This is my protest.” That mollifies them, but why do they think it is even their business?
Why do I have no complaints about yardwork is over? Maybe many people secretly love goats? I love goats openly. Silly bright guys with horns and attitude and a work ethic.
Baud
@Jeffro:
The Ivies earned it.
Jeffro
yup
me either! Ā it’s good for me and for the party – “all good here!” =)
Melancholy Jaques
I do not know this Angus Johnston, so maybe he is an exception, but my experience of the last 48 years of presidential elections is that people who talk like that were never going to vote for Biden (or the Democratic candidate in the previous elections). They are justifying their decision and urging others to agree with them. But they are not in anyway being helpful.
Kay
Jeffro
Btw Geminid, if you’re online, I could use a little direction on these 5th District Dems (there are 3 of them)…I’ve looked online and they all pass the issues test. Ā What’s your take on who’s strongest to upset Bob (No)Good?
sab
Our plumber and I, settling up the bill, agreed that my living room chairs were a disaster, but what are you going to do with clawed cats, and only a sociopath would declaw cats. So then we pondered the sad chairs again, and decided chairs have no feelings and declawed cats do.
wjca
If you wear a shirt with writing on it (or even just a picture), you’re kinda making it the business of everybody who encounters you.Ā If it’s not their business, wear something else.
Martin
@Baud: Except that you have to factor in who they are more likely to vote for. Locking down the 65+ population doesn’t help you much when they are more likely to vote R. So while young people are less likely to vote, they are MUCH more like to vote D.
And maybe the reason why they are less likely to vote is that nobody listens to them or takes them seriously (maybe also why they’re demonstrating right now?) Go ask black voters if they are more or less likely to vote when Democrats take their concerns seriously or when they are ignored. Black voter turnout went way up going into 2020 when Democrats were defending the BLM movement. Only 2008 and 2012 were higher.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
Obama’s 2012 campaign in Ohio had something that identified the infrequent voters. The people I know who worked there credited it with the win.
Bill Arnold
@sab:
Shrug. If Ohio keeps Biden off the ballot, then VP K. Harris should reject Ohio’s electoral votes.
I mean, not really, but perhaps the narrative should be spread.
Baud
@Martin:
Republicans don’t take old people’s concerns seriously. They use Fox and other propaganda to focus old people’s minds on hate.
And saying that 2020 was the third best year out of four for black voter participation isn’t saying much.
I don’t question which groups make up our coalition.Ā I’m just pointing out that voting habits correlate with age, and always have.
Kay
Banks runs a huge system. 915,000 students and an annual budget of 39 billion. That’s more students than the largest public university system in the country (California). He’s aso a lawyer.
They just never should have tried to bully him -it’s probably impossible. .
WaterGirl
@Baud:Ā @Chris: I was trying not to exaggerate and I clearly overcompensated.
frosty
@Martin: āVAN, like every GOTV I’ve done, starts with registered Democrats, which is fine with me, because I don’t want to knock on Republican doors and get shot.
I don’t know how you could reach non-voters – they won’t be on a list. Knock every door on the block hoping to find one who is persuadable? That’s an utter waste of time, and (see above) dangerous these days.
Kay
I wholeheartedly and passionately support the student protestors, but there aren’t enough of them to hurt Biden in the election, with the possible exception of MI and that’s because the student issue will be compounded by the Arab American and Muslim issue and then you start to reach real numbers that could change a result.
Michigan is a concern of mine. I don’t think it will matter anywhere else. I also still think Biden will win, even with his MI problem.
Martin
@Baud: It was the 3rd best ever. 08 and 12 were the highest in history. ’20 was slightly higher than ’64.
And I’m pointing out that if Democrats don’t fight for the things they say they believe in then they deserve to lose. If Democrats write off the rights of or the future of young people, and don’t think them worthy of outreach, then why should they vote for Dems?
It doesn’t matter why old people vote for republicans. Dems have a MUCH harder coalition to hold together to win, so they have to work harder to keep it. That’s just the way it is.
Martin
@Kay: CCC is 3x larger – just shy of 3 million students (half part time, half full time), but that doesn’t diminish your point.
Baud
@Martin:
They shouldn’t vote for Dems. No one should. Or everyone should. But there’s no point singling out any group of people for special obligations. Everyone is equal in a democracy.
I agree that Dems have a harder job.
ETA: It’s why I’ll never blame Dems for not being good enough.
Jeffro
Well, that or considering that “presidential immunity” is a thing, perhaps President Biden should just have the whole state closed off for a few crucial months, so that Ohio’s EVs and electors are stopped at the border?
(I mean, the GOP is big on border security and all, as well as “presidential immunity”?!?) Ā =)
Kay
We might see an impact in Minnesota, too. They have a higher than average Muslim population (as a percentage of population – not total number).
wjca
Since you’re trying to get people to vote your way, you don’t want to worry about non-voters.Ā But you DO want to talk to the enormous number of already registered voters who don’t express a party preference.
Yes, many, even most, of them routinely vote for the same party every time.Ā But the mere fact that they declined to state a preference means that the ones who routinely vote Republican are at least somewhat persuadable.Ā And the ones who generally vote Democratic are ones you want to turn out.
Martin
@Kay: Arizona was decided by 11K votes in 2020. GA by 12K. Wisconsin 20K.
Just those 3 makes it a 269-269 election decided by Congress which will elect Trump (1 vote per state and the GOP has more states).
ASU has 65K students. GA Tech has 45K. UWisc has 50K.
Kay
@Martin:
I think they have utter contempt for public schools and the peoplewho work in them and just had no earthly idea who they were fucking with. Not a one of them has ever run anything that large and diverse. Testifying in front of the dopes is an easy day for him.
Chris
@counterfactual:
Oh, it’s definitely a thing. But those Nazi Jew types usually didn’t make it all the way to Deputy FĆ¼hrer. And there doesn’t seem to be that compelling a reason to promote him there.
zhena gogolia
@sab: That’s a good one! We always used to say, “The cats are our decor.”
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Pussy
GaloreDecor!topclimber
@Martin: Hopefully Biden can push Bibi offstage and have other tangible progress on behalf of a two-state solution before September and a new round of student protests. It would be nice to enthuse the young voters who are passionate about this issue to vote for him because he listened and delivered, and not just because “Trump will be worse.”
Martin
@wjca: Except that from 2016-2020, Trump added 12 million votes. Biden added 16 million. That’s how Biden won.
28 million non-voters turned into voters. CA had the most total votes cast at 17 million. From 2016-2020, we added about one California and one Florida worth of voters.
You absolutely want to worry about non-voters. If Biden hadn’t, Trump would have picked up 12 million votes and won in a landslide.
Kay
@Martin:
Ok, I worry a little about WI too – the students are necessary for Dems – but remember the protestors are a small minority of students so even if we say 4x as many are sympathetic but not protesting it’s probably still less than 10%.
I actually worry much more about the substantive issues – I think the language (and proposed legislation) aimed at shutting them down, putting them on no fly lists, etc is censorship of protected political speech, very authoritarian and many of the actions universities have taken, are, IMO, probably unconstitutional. I think that’s now a bigger issue than the Biden campaign troubles with them.
topclimber
@Baud: Why would Dems waste appeals on a guy whose BAUD20XX campaign could siphon of an entire handful of votes from Biden? Now a cushy no-show government job in exchange for an endorsement is another story, amirite?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Yeah the Republican electorate is far more homogenous.
Martin
@Kay: You’re over focusing on the protests, and not enough on the larger complaints – housing costs, women’s rights, gun rights, climate change, etc.
Dems are doing a lot of these things, but they need to show they are listening to their specific concerns even when they overlap with broader ones. The student debt forgiveness is great, but it doesn’t affect them because there’s no policy there.
Keep sending Kamala to college campuses – she’s really good at that. Get Joe to speak more directly to students. The ‘does this influence your stance’ dismissal answer of ‘no’ really doesn’t help, because it comes off as dismissing young voters.
Jeffro
@Kay: 5x YES
Most especially the ‘contempt’ part – they think anyone working in the public sector is paid to basically do nothing (certainly, nothing that they value)
I’m glad he schooled them – pun intended – HARD
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Except for Brown.
Kay
@topclimber:
I just don’t think young people respond to fear-based appeals. Part of being young is not being afraid, even when maybe one should be. Remember when Obama said they wouldn’t buy health insurance because they think they are invincible? There’s truth to that. I think your idea of an affirmative “sell”is much better than “bad things will happen!”
For the Gaza sympathetic youths I would not even try using Biden. Just use “Democrats”. They think he smeared them all as anti Semites so they now dislike him even more.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: hahaha
zhena gogolia
They’ll love Trump’s policies toward Israel.
Kay
@Martin:
Fine with me. I disagree on Biden as a messenger though. Just use Harris – she’s good and I think they (correctly) believe she is more sympathetic to their issues
.I think they’ve permanently soured on Biden. He isn’t coming back with them. Luckily he doesn’t need to – he’s termed out after this. If it were me I would send Biden to red counties in swing states and have him pitch to non college. That was his role for Obama and he was good at it. In states like MI, PA and WI that could reduce Trump’s margins.
Ksmiami
@Jeffro: yep. Its ridiculous and has resulted in a 13th century Court but hey, those Bernie Bros showed us
Ksmiami
@Kay: Actually, knowing a lot of kids at these schools, the vehement protests have already created a backlash against the Pro- Hamas movement. By November, the stakes will be magnified.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
That’s what Donald Trump calls them.
Betty Cracker
@Jeffro: I love that story. Kudos to the district chiefs for standing up to the bullies!
Kay
@Ksmiami:
If they’re opposed to US policy in Gaza they’re pro terrorist? We’re doing this again? Has Andrew Sullican called them a fifth column yet?
3Sice
@Baud:
prostratedragon
@different-church-lady:Ā Maybe it’s the headline writer trolling the publisher.
Jeffro
btw I am watching an extremely panicky and extremely LONG video from His Orangeness deriding none other than RFK Jr, going after his family, his running mate, his running mate’s deep pockets, and more
oh my
I paused it for a sec to write this but, nickel bet, Von Schitzenpants is going to close out with 10 straight seconds of “RFJ’S A LIB A LIB A LIB TOTAL GREENIE ALL YOU LEFTIES HE’S YOUR GUY ALL MY PEOPLE STAY STRONG!”…you know, really subtle shit ;)
(back in a sec
ETA: yup! Ā All that, plus…did you all know that RFK Jr’s a total fake on the anti-vax thing? Ā trumpov is the real deal there. Ā Probably a good idea to let America know ;)
Fake Irishman
@wjca:
I really donāt feel like wading into this food fight about Democratic strategy of who to turn out.
however, I will chime in to say thereās a great book out there on how to appeal to independents Ā written by Yanna Kurpnikov and Samantha Klar. Ā It is true that large portions of independents tend to be pretty consistent Dem or GOP voters, but how they think about politics and parties is different than partisans. So you have to appeal to them differently.
And campaign operatives certainly think about thisā¦.
RepubAnon
@sab: : Pity the Democrats can’t set up a mini-convention via Zoom to nominate Joe Biden, and then have the regular convention for the hoopla.
Gvg
@Martin: I can remember when black voters were considered low turnout voters in the 80ās. I guess they felt they couldnāt make an impact. That changed a lot over my adult lifetime. Coincidently, I am sure, Republican efforts at voter suppression and bizarre theories about bussed in voters increased after black Americans started voting and knowing their own power.
Ksmiami
@Kay: Iām just relaying what my friends kids are experiencing at UCLA and Columbia. A fraction of the protests are concerning the treatment of Gazans, a large contingent are anti- Israel and anti Jewish. And they arenāt accomplishing anything. They could have channeled all this rage into raising funds for aid, or petitioning Congress. My guess is most of these raging students wonāt vote because civics are so āmundaneā. So itās not even a smart strategy to cajole them.
dmsilev
@Jeffro: Heās just jealous of RFK Jr’s dead brainworm.
Geminid
@Jeffro: I don’t know much about the Democrats running in the 5th. My friend Joan probably does, so maybe I’ll ask her in tbe morning. But I don’t think any of them has much of a chance which is why none of the local electeds entered the race.
I think Eugene Vindman will win the 7th CD primary. He’s outraised everyone else by 10 to 1. That’s a seat we need to hold, but Dems have a pick-up possiblity in the Virginia Beach-based 2nd CD. Looks like we have two good contenders there.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
I disagree that they’re “pro Hamas”. I think calling them that is a way of shutting down any criticism of the Biden Gaza policy. They won’t harm Joe Biden’s chances because most Americans don’t care about foreign policy and even fewer care about Palestinian civilians. But it’s a successful protest movement by any measure. They have a presence on 200 campuses and it’s spreading internationally. There are now 88 Congressional Democrats pressuring Biden to follow US law on transfers of weapons to goverments that violate human rights.
Protests have never been popular in the US. Not once. 75% of Americans in 1964 said AA’s were hurting their own cause by causing all that ruckus at the lunch counter. It’s not a popularity contest.Ā The anti apartheid protests weren’t popular either.
I was actually present at a Daily Kos event in 2012 where people told me the marriage equality protestors were too strident and were being bad Democrats by pressuring Obama. Protestors are always doing it wrong.
dexwood
@wjca: Yup. So true.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
As I have said repeatedly I don’t think there are enough of them to cause Biden to lose – with the exception of Michigan where they really could change the result. But that doesn’t have anything to do with whether they have 1st amendment rights or if they’re right or wrong on US Gaza policy or if they are creating a successful protest movement. I think US policy in Gaza and the authoritarian moves to shut down dissenting political speech by university managers, politicians and police are much more serious issues than whether the 10% of US students who object to US policy in Gaza like Joe Biden or not. He’ll be fine. I’m not worried about him.
Nelle
@Martin: i think that is what we use here in the Neighbor to Neighbor program.Ā Still, I use it as a starting point and now, in warm weather, just walk our neighborhood and chat with anyone else out walking. One question I have for younger people is “What do you think older voters like me should take into consideration when voting?Ā What do we need to understand about your concerns for your future?”Ā Interesting conversations result.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
They were right about one thing. I was told repeatedly right here on Balloon Juice that there was nothjng Joe Biden could do to influence Israel. His hands were tied. Completely powerless. The protestors said that wasn’t true and lo and behold, as it turns out Joe Biden CAN do something. He can refuse to provide certain classes of weapons unless US law regarding humanitarian protections for civilians is followed. So it wasn’t impossible after all. He’s actually a pretty powerful guy, turns out.
Geminid
@Martin: I’m a little surprised the college protests weren’t already happening in Europe. Protests there have been nuch, much bigger than here since the very beginning of this war. There were almost 10,000 people protesting tonight in MalmĆ², Sweden. The occasion was the Eurovision musical contest. Organizers are letting an Israeli singer compete.
Geminid
@Kay: Yes, a lot of people here said Biden’s hands were tied, but some of us pointed out from the beginning that Israel could not prosecute this war at this intensity without the military assistance the US was providing.
wjca
The dead part, or the brain part?
YY_Sima Qian
Not sure if this as been posted in one of the threads, but I think it is the best comprehensive take to date:
Chris T.
@sab:
All true. But there are a few things you can do. The number-one item is to provide something better than the furniture for the cats to shred.
This is where it gets tricky: The cat(s) define better. What’s “better” for you may not impress kitty. So what do most cats like?
I’ve personally found that good microfiber cloth is a “bad” texture for our cats, and I like microfiber, so that’s what I like to look for. Unfortunately Spousal Unit likes loopy-fiber couches, which are “great” textures for our cats, so we have some fairly-shreddy couches…
I’ve found that seriously-sturdy cat trees with proper loopy carpet are hard to come by, but once you have one, it’s gold, especially if placed at Kitty Entrance.
MinuteMan
@counterfactual:Ā ā
@counterfactual:Ā ā
I had the same thought a few days back. Google “Association of German National Jews”.