Former Pres. Trump met with a probation officer—as required of all convicted felons—after being found guilty of 34 counts related to his hush money case. The officer will write a report to the judge sentencing Trump next month. @AaronKatersky reports. https://t.co/uUWQz4SQgH pic.twitter.com/bSm83uDCSb
— World News Tonight (@ABCWorldNews) June 11, 2024
Some thoughts on what to do at sentencing if your client insists on his innocencehttps://t.co/E9Am7ASuL7
— Andrew Fleischman (@ASFleischman) June 10, 2024
My client was in some kind of denial. The charges were serious; the evidence was strong. But he was certainhe would be acquitted, and that negative vibes would hurt his chances. He had a sort of manic “The Secret” energy that made me worry what he might do if disappointed.
As the jury came out to read their verdict, the deputies started backing away from him. Sharing the same thought, I took off my glasses so they wouldn’t break if I got punched in the face. I wondered what might happen if the client’s shock belt went off while he was on top of me.
Guilty on all counts. No punch in the face. About as good an outcome as I could have hoped for.
But now I was in a position intimately familiar to Donald Trump’s attorneys: How do you prepare a client for felony sentencing when he can’t admit guilt or express remorse?…
… [O]ne way to snatch incarceration from the jaws of freedom is to let the client speak his mind. In my case, it fell to me to prep the client I described above for sentencing. We went over the sort of things that defendants ought to say at sentencing a few dozen times. Don’t admit guilt, but express sympathy for the victim and his family. I made many visits to the jail. And yet, when he testified, he insisted loudly that he had done nothing wrong, that the victim had it coming and that even a blind person could tell he was innocent…
In my case, when the client finished talking, the judge, a lenient sentencer, gave him life without parole. Plus some extra years. I begged him to reconsider — surely life without parole was long enough without stacking on extra years! He replied, softly and calmly, “Better safe than sorry.”…
Donald Trump, now the first former president to undergo an interview with a probation officer, was accompanied by his attorney as he answered pre-sentencing questions. Trump was found guilty last month of 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. pic.twitter.com/CmkTUnsxKl
— CBS Evening News (@CBSEveningNews) June 10, 2024
Per the Washington Post:
… Trump’s attorneys are expected to file a presentencing brief by Thursday. The Manhattan district attorney’s office, which prosecuted the case, has until June 27 to file its recommendation. A probation officer’s report is generally not a public document but aspects of it could become public in court.
Legal groups and public defenders complained that the fact that his lawyer was allowed to attend the meeting and that he was allowed to meet virtually with the probation office amounted to special treatment.
In a statement, a group of public defender groups including the Legal Aid Society and the Bronx Defenders said that the exceptions made for Trump “are not typically afforded to low-income defendants.”
“All people convicted of crimes should be allowed counsel in their probation interview, not just billionaires,” the groups said in the statement. “This is just another example of our two-tiered system of justice. Presentencing interviews with probation officers influence sentencing, and public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings. The option of joining these interviews virtually is typically not extended to the people we represent either.”
A spokeswoman for the city, Ivette Dávila-Richards, said virtual interviews have been available to defendants, starting during the pandemic…
OK sports fans, today's probation interview is the first in a very long — likely lifelong — series of state orders and restrictions that will fetter Trump for many years to come.
Trump has crossed a great divide in society. https://t.co/sBUPaeXPVT
— Harry Litman (@harrylitman) June 10, 2024
Glass *partially* full, per Harry Litman at the Atlantic — “Once A Convict”...
The divide between convicted criminals and the rest of society is sharp, real, and typically enduring. Donald Trump now finds himself on the wrong side of that divide. If he doesn’t win in November (and even, to an extent, if he does), he likely will remain on that barren side of American life, subject to government oversight that normal citizens don’t have to endure, for the rest of his life.
In the federal system, a person is not technically a felon or a convict until sentencing. But Trump was convicted in New York, and that state imposes this designation at the time of the jury verdict. That already entails privations. The New York City Police Department is seeking to revoke his license to carry a concealed weapon. Thirty-seven countries—including Canada and the United Kingdom—have laws prohibiting felons from entering (though they can, of course, make exceptions)…
Probation is onerous and its restrictions are determined somewhat arbitrarily, often by probation officers whose recommendations the court tends to accept. It can entail all kinds of potential restrictions and government intrusions, starting with mandatory regular visits to the probation officer. One hundred or more hours of community service is a not-uncommon term of probation. And a long list of standard restrictions applies, including limits on travel, unannounced searches, and drug testing at the probation officer’s discretion. If Trump committed any additional crimes (not ones currently pending), he could be jailed in New York immediately…
Once he becomes a probationer, Trump, who all his life has acted as if the rules don’t apply to him, would exist in a “pretty please” world, subject to the ultimate discretion of a judge whom he has trashed ceaselessly and in vile terms…
Trump and his supporters look at the convictions as freakish and partisan, and suppose that they can be undone, perhaps by the Supreme Court, which both Trump and Speaker Mike Johnson are asking to step in. But the supposition is fanciful. The convictions are indelible, and their consequences will be enduring. The odds of Trump’s walking away and again being a fully free man are remote.
TBone
Reminder: he’s not officially on probation until after sentencing, which may or may not involve probation – the only reason we’re talking about probation now is because that is the technical title of the official who conducts the presentence interview.
Probation is a sentence imposed by the court as an alternative to jail. As part of a probation sentence, an offender is released. In return for the offender’s release, the offender agrees to abide by certain rules and follow specific guidlines. Dotard will fail.
I’m rooting for prison over probation, obvs. But even if he receives a probationary sentence, jailing Dotard is still a probability. Because he’ll be unable to abide by the law.
Dude cannot abide.
hells littlest angel
In this case, I’d say, “Do and say whatever you want, asshole. Once you’re sentenced, I’m done with you for all time.”
Martin
@TBone: My understanding is that many of the limitations placed on people on probation are applied to people ROR waiting on sentencing. So they are burdened in many of the same ways as someone on probation, while not actually being on probation.
I still don’t see a scenario where he isn’t given a prison sentence. This remains the most serious case in terms of consequence of someone breaking this set of laws, and Trump is as defiant and dismissive of the case as any one ever has been. He’s the poster child for maximum sentence apart from being a first time offender.
StringOnAStick
I feel for all the ordinary citizens that have done their duty (the jury members) or their jobs (the probation officers, judges, law clerks, etc.) with regard to this utter stain upon the American Experiment, the (likely rigged) election of the sociopath to POTUS. The risks to them from the mango menace ‘s cult followers is real.
Timill
@TBone: In some ways I prefer probation, because then he’ll violate the conditions and have to be sentenced anew for them, and the MAGAts might be more accepting of it. [no, I don’t think so, but there’s no rule against hope.]
Unfortunately, “not to travel more than ten miles from the Temple of Tash in Tashbaan” is unlikely to be one of those conditions.
SpaceUnit
I once had to do like 20 hours of community service (Don’t ask. I was young and it was something pretty stupid. Okay fine, my friends and I trespassed at night onto a historic military fort that was a National Monument or something. We didn’t do any damage, just hung out and drank a couple beers).
We had to cut grass in local parks. No jumpsuits or anything. I actually sorta enjoyed it.
I cannot in my wildest imagination see trump pushing a fucking lawnmower or picking up trash along a highway. He simply couldn’t do it, physically or psychologically. What happens then?
TBone
@Martin: agreed. Dumbass is prolly criming right now!
StringOnAStick
@SpaceUnit: There are all kinds of tasks that can be assigned as community service. With this prick you know that no matter how innocuous a task he’s given, he’s going to whine like a sugar-crashing 3 year old and declare any such thing an affront to his status as a heavily made up demigod.
SpaceUnit
@StringOnAStick:
Exactly. It would just kill him, however easy and trivial the task.
StringOnAStick
Off topic: I crushed the tip of a finger between two heavy pieces of flagstone last tuesday, breaking all the edges off the bone. Fortunately I missed the joint and it will heal and the bony bits reattach, but it freaking hurts and it’s my dominant hand so all life activities are extremely difficult. My hand is a Technicolor wonder as the bruising migrates. This is my last flagstone project, period. Too risky.
StringOnAStick
@SpaceUnit: The whining will be epic. Good; it makes him look like the petty, sleazy thug he is at his very core
Melancholy Jaques
@StringOnAStick:
My finger hurt just reading your description. Wishing you a speedy recovery and relief from the pain.
Ruckus
@StringOnAStick:
He is the premier complainer of all time. He started at this when he got $400 million when his dad died. Notice I didn’t say he inherited it, I believe his siblings got far less if anything, and it wasn’t all left to him, as I remember and understood the story. And he’s been a dick ever since. Not that he might not have been prior. And I believe that he won the republican vote because seemingly the right decided that money is the ultimate determiner of life and status and voted for a guy who turned out to be the worst president of my lifetime – and I’m an old. And he’s proving that he’s not just the worst president, he’s carried that over to civilian life, on a daily basis. I hope he gets some lockup time, even a minimal amount. I wonder if he looks better or worse without a quart of fake tan every day?
Ruckus
@Melancholy Jaques:
Same here. I’ve never done in a finger bone but I worked for decades in a machine shop and have scars to prove it. Including a bad back from once being stronger and stupider than I thought I was. At least I learned something to never to do again…..
frosty
I broke my right wrist in college and had to relearn everything left-handed, including writing answers to essay questions during finals week. Other “life activities” (IYKWIMAITYD) weren’t as difficult but were definitely weird.
Jackie
@Timill:
You’re very optimistic. Say TCFG gets sentenced anew… how many years of successful postponements and delays will he gain before IF he’s tried again? A LOT depends on who’s the NYSD DA at that time.
dmsilev
Instead of a monitor anklet, can he be required to wear an electroshock collar? Think of how much money could be raised by auctioning off actuations.
frosty
His life is going to be turned upside down and he has no idea what’s coming for him and no ability to manage it. I am going to watch as it happens and I am going to enjoy it.
Jackie
@dmsilev: I’d donate for that!!!
Ruckus
@Timill:
@Jackie:
If I’m not mistaken if he violates probation he goes into lockup, not another trial. There are a lot of conditions for probation and his 34 felony counts may have some degree of control over some slammer time being given. Can he appeal? I believe so but I really have zero knowledge but I sort of really doubt it. He had a trial, he had lawyers, and we’ll find out on July 11 where it goes from here. Sometimes the law wins.
Redshift
@SpaceUnit:
Of course, because the unbearable thing isn’t the task, it’s that he has to file orders and isn’t dominant, which he needs to be in every situation.
dmsilev
@Ruckus:
My not-a-lawyer understanding is that when the judge passes sentence a month from now, he has the option of suspending it pending appeal or imposing it immediately, and that while fines might be imposed immediately, prison time would almost definitely be suspended until all appeals are over.
Redshift
Hence why his minions are now openly saying they’ll burn down our entire system of government if he’s elected. Even less subtle than Netanyahu about wanting to be in power primarily to stay out of prison.
Redshift
@dmsilev: Yes, but that comment was about appealing being sent to prison if he violates parole, not about whether he goes to prison while appealing the initial conviction.
dmsilev
@Redshift: Ah, yes. That, I have no idea about.
Ruckus
@dmsilev:
I think you are correct but IANAL either. Although I believe that if he is sentenced to jail I believe he is taken into custody immediately and has to have his attorney file an appeal, which I believe he’d lose. In many ways he has been given a hell of a lot of leeway and he’s fucked that up pretty constantly. He thinks he’s special, that the law does not apply to him and his fucking around and finding out is here and may get far worse for him. Oh what a shame….. Not.
Shalimar
@SpaceUnit: I used to work for Habitat for Humanity as an assistant Restore manager. We had community service people assigned to us all the time.
Ishiyama
If your probation officer decides that you have violated a rule, they can have you locked up, compel you to write a statement admitting your fault, and recommend an appropriate sanction to the Judge, such as 10 days jail, or more. No appeal, no bail, no get out of jail free card. Or the probation agent can initiate the process of revoking your probation, which sends you back to the Judge for sentencing. Sometimes the defendant opts to do straight time, instead of being put on probation.
devore
With the polls shockingly close between Biden and Trump, it’s kind of surreal that the fate of the free world appears to have fallen into a NY judges lap. Free Trump and that might be the end of democracy in the USA and in much of the rest of the free world. huge stakes.
HumboldtBlue
I watched a man attempt this after being convicted of serial sexual abuse of a child in his response to the verdict and the victim impact statements from the victim’s family, and the judge had him removed from the courtroom.
On another and far more beautiful and interesting note, here’s the Danish National Symphony Orchestra
HumboldtBlue
@StringOnAStick:
Ouch! Got-damn!
frog
@dmsilev:
If he gets jail time for the gag order violations, does that go on a separate track from the felony sentence? CAN the gag order penalties get appealed and delayed?
I really want to see Trump in a lockup past the election.
Yutsano
I’d say this could be fun, but there is nothing fun about this situation. And yes he should spend some time in a New York prison even if it’s just token amount.
I’m just TIRED of talking about him. I know the news keeps him in focus because this whole situation is unique but I just want him to go away.
wjca
I am investing in popcorn futures.
TS
Read the linked article from the hill – then I browsed a few other article headlines. When did the hill become such a RW rag?
lurker
@TS: thehill has been a rightwing rag for quite a while – long enough ago that I forget who the rightwing dude was who bought it. They had John Solomon as their main political reporter for a long stretch and he has rightwing slanted stories going back to the Clinton administration – well before he was a The Hill.
It used to be closer to middle of the road, but burned that reputation away a long time ago. It still does some straight reporting, probably to avoid becoming a clear website/print version of something like oann.
Villago Delenda Est
TCFFG is like He-Who-Should-Not-Be-Named in the Harry Potter-verse. To break out of the prison he has created for himself, he must show sincere remorse. This is something he is incapable of doing. So, he’s fated to be a pathetic wretched thing crawling around on the floors of an ethereal Paddington Station for eternity.
Villago Delenda Est
Duplicate comment nuked.
Villago Delenda Est
@lurker:
Solomon was involved in the entire bully Prez Z for dirt on Biden thing that led to TCFFG’s first impeachment. He’s reactionary scum, and his current website, “Just The News”, reeks of partisan propaganda.
Villago Delenda Est
@dmsilev: Oh! With Maggie Simpson holding the “on” button!
Greebe
Will the sentencing report ever become public?
lurker
@Ruckus:
@Jackie:
@dmsilev:
@Redshift:
@Ishiyama:
Partly this is collecting some of the sentencing/appeal comments into a thread … um … cuz?
There are a few points that seem to be coming up:
One, he may or may not go to prison immediately. Judges have some discretion to allow someone to get their affairs in order in a gentlemanly way – this tends to be granted in white collar crime cases and much less so for violent offenses or drug crimes. The court is mainly analyzing whether the convicted felon is a flight risk and a public safety risk. Sadly, money is typically considered an indication of not being a flight risk, even though it might enable flight that a poor person could not achieve (like using a private plane, e.g.)
Two, the order on when to report is often stayed pending appeal based on the same kind of analysis – flight and public safety risks, and that order can be handed down by the trial-level judge (Judge Merchan in this case) or by the appellate level court if an appeal is filed and a stay is requested.
Realistically, Trump will not go to jail right away in this case regardless.
Third point – whether he goes to jail for contempt – hard to say what to make of it in terms of the initial sentence, it can be considered as part of the sentence for the conviction or considered separately, subject to the controlling statutes which seem to be somewhat lenient in NYS. Any post-conviction contempt sentence could likely also be stayed and appealed. However, the gag order was already upheld during the case in an appeal which happened in parallel with proceedings at the trial court, so the best chance he would have if he is sentenced to jail for contempt is to get the appeals court to say the jail order was reversed. Contempt is supposed to alter future behavior as much as penalize past behavior, and here the future behavior is likely considered attenuated since the verdict has been reached. (Not saying that is correct, just where a court seems likely to go.)
Fourth point, probation can be very onerous or not very onerous – consider how many mob guys with organizational connections manage to deal with pretty light probation, versus onerous probation restrictions that seem to be designed to cause a probation violation and a sentence to jail/prison. Trump is not likely to have a very onerous or burdensome set of restrictions unless he starts violating more court orders and probation restrictions – leading to the judge revising and tightening the restrictions. This will not have an immediate effect in this case, but he seems to have the personality to get in trouble, combined with some fear of authority that kicks in to keep him safer from many more consequences. Consider that he is not a defendant who has had outbursts in court – the judge did not have to tell him to stop yelling during court sessions, only to stop with the out-of-court behavior. How that plays out on probation is hard to say and I am a little morbidly curious.
Fifth point (which is about six too many so far) is that he could get a suspended prison sentence with probation – this is commonly what someone gets in a situation like this – meaning that violations of probation (probably more than one) would lead to revocation of probation and immediate imposition of the otherwise suspended prison sentence. A guy in Trump’s socioeconomic status tends to get a lot of leeway on this.
Sixth, Trump could also get a prison sentence with an offer of a shorter stay and then parole. Parole is a post-incarceration option, and tends to mean a longer term of supervision in exchange for getting out early. He is not likely to even get into this type of situation, but parole can be an even bigger challenge than probation, as the length of time and restrictions tend to be tougher.
Seventh, (probably about ten points to many now), he could opt to spend the time in prison while he appeals. Notable examples of this were Martha Stewart and Barry Bonds, both of whom seemed to feel that taking the hit for serving their sentences (Stewart incarcerated briefly, Bonds on house arrest if I recall correctly) would be better than the public relations hit for staying out while on appeals at one level or another. Bonds announced he would begin serving his sentence, it is not entirely clear if he did, but the sentence was mainly 30 days of house arrest and then _two_ years probation plus community service. Bonds ultimately had his sentence overturned due to issues with whether he ever should have been prosecuted for perjury in the first place.
It is laughable that Trump would voluntarily serve his sentence before appealing to the US Supreme Court and what ever other court he could think of after that…
Ok, this was exhausting, hope it helps someone…
lurker
comment in moderation – not sure it is important enough to worry about – long story short, trump is not going to prison and probation might not be that bad for him, but he will still complain
Jay
So,
Fire alarm went off, building, not the apartment.
I was heading down anyway, beer run.
Texted T, one apt on the 19th floor, based on the alarm board.
Got beer, came back.
Almost everybody was out of the building, fire trucks.
It was fun. Checking in with neighbors. Stories.
We need to do a building potluck.
danielx
@Jay:
At least you had beer while waiting to be let back in. Priorities!
lurker
@Greebe: sentencing reports generally do not become public. Varies somewhat. Parts of them may become public as a result of discussions of the sentencing reports in the sentencing hearing.
Dangerman
Damn. I have a procedure that starts early on 7/11. I’ll probably go in patient for a night. Purely precautionary. I may not know what happens until Friday night.
This could be the strangest trip out of anesthesia ever.
Jay
@danielx:
Did not have a beer, got to watch a young woman in a hijab lead a bunch of very young kids in an epic round of “Ring around the posie”, did not have the heart to tell them it was a kids poem/game about the Black Death.
Met a neighbor fostering 12 Kittens.
Got a private ballerina performance from an amazing young girl.
You know, neighbor stuff.
T walked down 22 floors, shouting out encouragement and reassurance to others on the stairs.
I had taken the elevator, while it was still working. We chatted on the ride down about all the false alarms and messes*. then just before the doors opened on the ground floor, I said, remember, now run for your lives.
Everybody laughed.
*somebody, on the north side of the building, on the 24th floor, broke a sprinkler head off, moving out, deliberate? Flooded 9 apartments below, the water got into the elevator shafts, destroyed the cables and electronics. That whole side of the building is still spotty.
Jeffg166
I keep wondering how Tony Kushner will turn this whole saga into a play. The hook may be it will be about TFG and his parole officer. Lots of flash backs to cover what he did.
WereBear
What I notice most is that his hair is not the delicately balanced sculpture of old.
NotMax
@TS
Pretty much from its founding, although the slant has accelerated since Jimmy Finkelstein grabbed the reins in 2012.
WereBear
@NotMax: Any soulless husk solely propelled by externals might feel the same.
tRump IS bad style over ANY substance. A role model, if you will.
OzarkHillbilly
Heh: Shaken and stirred: Trump’s golf course liquor licenses at risk after conviction
They will find a workaround, but I still find it funny.
WereBear
@OzarkHillbilly: You mean being a convicted felon can interfere with a more libertine lifestyle?
Talk about not thinking ahead…
Matt McIrvin
It’s more like sentencing a mafia don than anything else, only worse– that chance that the defendant might gain essentially infinite power, nullify the law and simply have you and everyone else involved murdered with impunity.
Baud
Via reddit, excellent attitude
Anyway
I am a little surprised Dumpf’s epic shark-vs-battery riff hasn’t received more attention. I thought it would blow up yesterday — seemed tailor-made for derision and mockery. But MSM seem to have buried it.
OzarkHillbilly
From Cocaine worth about $450,000 washes up on Alabama shore, comes this little tidbit:
Now that’s what I call a keeper. I’ll bet Raven never caught one of those.
Ramalama
Are urine samples required for this probationary period of the Donald’s? What if they discover amphetimes in his system, as the rumors have suggested his affection for a British cold medication?
I too am sick of hearing about this man. But when it started, after he’d beaten Hillary I was on a French tropical island surrounded by non Americans and the talk was Trump Centric. I fucking want some benefit to all the crap of him being our dear leader, and that comes from the one measly hearing, the guilty verdict, and now build up and hopeful lock up.
When I was in junior high school the movie Grease came out and suddenly fir an entire year I could not make a turn without running into friends acting out scenes. I know the words to every song because I could not escape it all year long.
Look at me I’m Sandra Dee, lousy with virginity….ok.
Adam L Silverman
Hochul will commute his sentence. The same elite interests that just leaned on her to scrap the congestion pricing for commuters are doing the same thing in regard to Trump. It will be pitched to her as a demonstration of her non-partisan leadership and it will be justified as necessary to restore political comity and civility so we can move on and heal.
Ramalama
@Jeffg166: Tony Kushner what a talent. I am just starting to read Angels in America after having seen in twice on the tube … On HBO. I stood alone in my living room and clapped after I finished watching it the first time. Wished I could’ve seen it on the stage. Tickets at the time were too costly and I was working in a candy store. I.e. No monneh.
Betty Cracker
Is it safe to assume Trump has to show up in person for sentencing?
I’m trying to figure out why he’s staying in Florida when the rest of the rich douchebags have already fled to summer estates to avoid the heat and hurricanes. Maybe he thinks he can team up with DeSantis to avoid being taken into custody if he does get time?
As much as I’d love to see it, I don’t think he’ll see the inside of a jail. I hope I’m wrong.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
He will be there in person.
R-Jud
@Betty Cracker: OT, but I’m catching up on threads and just wanted to say I’m so glad you’re enjoying Books of All Time! I’ve enjoyed so much of your writing over the years; it feels like giving back to you a little bit. x
Betty Cracker
@StringOnAStick: Holy hell! Hope you heal quickly.
@R-Jud: It’s a fun podcast — kept my husband and me entertained on a brief roadtrip recently, and we look forward to hearing more on future trips! 😊
lurker
@Betty Cracker:
@Baud:
Agreed he will be there in person. Might want to stay there enough to maintain FL residency for tax/election purposes, and to avoid any other legal exposure by being physically in NY at this point. He probably needs every vote he can get in FL, even though it is still likely more of a purple mirage than a truly in play state for his election contest with Biden.
Not sure even he is low intelligence level enough to think FL is a good place to be in the summer when there are other options…
rebelsdad (aka texasboyshaun)
Me: Oh man, time for bed, I can hardly stay awake
My brain, 10 minutes later: The capital of Georgia used to be Milledgeville. Hey, do we still remember the Pythagorean Theorem? 1,2, buckle my shoe, skip to the loo my darling
lowtechcyclist
@Adam L Silverman:
They’d have to promise her a lifetime of sinecures, because if she did that, she’d never get elected to anything ever again.
What is it with New York? It’s a very blue state, and the city of the same name is a very blue city. Yet the Dems they put in office suck. Andrew Cuomo, Kathy Hochul, Eric Adams…really?? Can’t NYS/NYC Dems do any better than these turkeys??
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
AFAIK, it’s the city that makes the state blue.
Beyond that, I don’t know. I think the problem with NYC is that there are a lot of factions that have to be managed. Lots of internecine stuff even though most of it in on the blue side.
rebelsdad (aka texasboyshaun)
@lowtechcyclist: If you look up “beclown” in the dictionary, Eric Adams’ face is right there.
prostratedragon
@rebelsdad (aka texasboyshaun): Do I ever feel your pain, with a late morning call coming!
Aussie Sheila
@lowtechcyclist:
No, they can’t. Because a reliable political outcome in a state or city is a recipe for mediocre political representation and/or performance. Plus NY is a very rich city. Plenty of money to grease palms.
I must say for all of the above, NYC political performance is pretty terrible. I would expect a much healthier and politically competent ‘Left’ in that city. Big cities that can’t field competent Left wing machines are fucked.
Harrison Wesley
@OzarkHillbilly: If I recall correctly, Mayor Castor is the former police chief.
lowtechcyclist
@Aussie Sheila:
As a Maryland resident, I must disagree.
Anyway
@lowtechcyclist:
NY Centrist Dems are terrified of the left gaining any power and will align with Rs, Big Money, NYPD etc to handicap ( kneecap?) them.
Aussie Sheila
@lowtechcyclist:
My political experience in my large Aust city is that reliable political outcomes produce political degeneration over time. This can be overcome when the usual suspects lose big time. The shock can induce better performance. But big money and large stakes can overcome even the most disastrous political performance.
Baud
@Anyway:
What do you think the left should do to make themselves less scary to centrists?
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Commit mass seppuku?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Lefties with knives are pretty scary.
Anyway
@Baud:
Damned if I know. I’m just a lowly observer. That Eric Adams won the D primary says it all.
Baud
Ideally, every jurisdiction would be politically competitive. But with the nationalization and polarization of US politics, that’s harder and harder to find. I’m a dedicated Dem because of where the Republicans are, but I would love to be at the center of politics and have parties fight for my vote. But I’m not going to pretend that’s where I am.
Baud
@Anyway:
What he would be like was not as clear during that primary, and it was close. From what some have said, his oppennt got tripped up on defund the police. But maybe there were other factors too.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
And in a very real sense, American politics doesn’t even have a center anymore, just a huge gulf between the two parties, and so many issues that divide the two aren’t amenable to compromise.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Justice Alito agrees!
The bigger problem is that they don’t compromise on those things that are amenable to compromise because of the need to always oppose the other side. See Republicans walking away from the border compromise.
TBone
@Baud: 💙😆
TBone
@Anyway: it’s not the first time that his scrambled eggs of a brain sharted that mistaken, twisted misapprehension about water and batteries and sharks out of his facial anus. I think he thinks it is anti EV somehow.
wjca
Maybe decide to back the occasional competent centrist? Rather than focusing their efforts in the primaries on backing one of their own. Knowing that doing so will get them more winners like Adams (or Giuliani).
Dorothy A. Winsor
@StringOnAStick: Ow.
Trivia Man
When he complains about the system treating him unfairly, an appropriate response might be “Ask the Central Park 5 how to handle that.”
Baud
@Trivia Man:
Bad analogy. Completely different race and class.
Trivia Man
@frosty: it’s as good as getting some strange!
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
It’s not an analogy, it’s that he was on the making-things-unfair side of that one. It’s what goes around, comes around.
Trivia Man
@lowtechcyclist: and make him defend what he did. We know “it’s different “ and why – rub his nose in it. I think 1 of the 5 just won office in NYC , he can do the honors and connect those dots for the news.
TBone
Good news 💙 ✊
https://paydayreport.com/27000-virginia-teachers-win-historic-union-election-with-presidential-election-implications/
Baud
@TBone:
Interesting. Thanks.
Mai Naem mobile
I wonder if any of TFG’s properties have in their CCRs, not allowing felons to reside there. There doesn’t have to be an HOA to have some odd stuff in the CCRs. That’s how some neighborhood keep out sex offenders.
WaterGirl
@StringOnAStick: ouch ouch ouch
Glad for a full recovery.
Snarki, child of Loki
“That’s how some neighborhood keep out sex offenders.”
I hear that Trump property CCRs REQUIRE you to be a se x offender.
Dan B
@StringOnAStick: My crew and I did a lot of flagstone paving and I’ve done a fair amount of paving with broken up sidewalk. The strangest experience was on one of the large, and largely uninhabited – in December, San Juan Islands. One of the most intrepid and competent employees got stuck between some huge slabs of Bluestone stacked on edge in a pallet. They were so heavy she couldn’t extricate herself. It looked like it would not be a problem. We extricated her easily. She went right back to wrestling huge slabs into place and sawing off bits with a diamond saw blade cooled by a stream of water from a jig she’d improvised. The Bluestone tried to stop her but she prevailed. Fortunately there were no owies!
smike
I can’t tolerate this thread stopping on 99 comments.
Manyakitty
@smike: lol