Starting this during the first commercial break. President Biden, I have to agree, did *not* get off to a good start — his voice is very raspy, and he looks less than well-rested. And if Trump had actually had an ankle monitor that went off every time he lied, it would’ve been the Clay Jones cartoon personified.
I take heart in knowing most ‘viewers’ will see only clips and recaps, and Biden’s actual responses are sound. (He could’ve supported abortion rights more whole-heartedly, but he’s an elderly Irish Catholic.) Trump’s base will love his Gish gallop, but The Base would’ve applauded if Trump had staggered on stage naked but for a diaper and proceeded to throw its contents…
pluky
Trump doesn’t want to talk about climate change.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@pluky:
Huh, that’s not a totally important issue to young voters at all /s
hrprogressive
Twice, Convicted Felon Donald Trump was asked directly about climate change, and he did not answer it.
So, anyone who cares about the climate collapse didn’t like that answer.
But someone who cares about that, probably wasn’t inclined to vote for Convicted Felon Donald Trump in 2024.
VFX Lurker
Glad to read this.
I still don’t have the heart to watch this debate, but does anyone know if Biden’s close enough to smell Trump? If so, that would be a distraction. I understand the felon absolutely reeks.
AnonPhenom
Joe gotta hit him with Project 2025.
Ohio Mom
Oh God. Ohio Dad just came in the bedroom with the debate on his phone. It’s a bloodbath. Biden is hoarse, out of breath and a bit addled. Trump is this best — slinging self-aggrandizing bullshit with forceful energy.
So much for my plan to ignore this in the cause of my mental health. Sigh.
Leto
JFC, claiming insulin and HBC funding. And saying he didn’t say “fine people on both sides”. Every-damned-thing out of his mouth is a fucking lie. I hope Daniel Dale’s vacay was good, because this shit will age him at least a decade.
TaMara
Good lord people, breathe. It’s going to be a long summer and we need all of you around to vote in the fall.
And try and keep it civil – we are not the enemy here.
MomSense
Fuck the moderators.
hrprogressive
Finally, there’s an answer that is to the point, and is unquestionably good.
#RaiseTheCap
Leto
@MomSense: and not in the good way! :P
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Ohio Mom:
I tried to do what you did and I couldn’t stay away. It’s apparently getting better and Biden is finding his stride. It’s hard to deal with someone like Trump when the moderators won’t, y’know, moderate, based on what I’m hearing from here
Leto
And Cole with the Sasquatch Stomp.
debit
God, Trump is calling Biden a liar. JFC. I am laughing because what the what?
SiubhanDuinne
@pluky:
Brought up from downstairs:
pat
More lies lies lies. How is it that the moderators are not doing anything about these LIES…
hrprogressive
“What about social security?”
“Russia, Ukraine, the border, veterans”
Convicted Felon Donald Trump is just rattling off lizard-brain ticklers for his cult.
Even an average voter who hears that is gonna realize he is full of shit.
Leto
Ok, so to save everyone from having to view/listen to the rest of this, here it is: Trumpov is just going to say “migrants/border!” About literally any subject/topic. Doesn’t matter the topic. Joe will respond with a good answer, while looking like Trumpov has a leper’s pecker hanging off his forehead.
Good night!
zhena gogolia
@hrprogressive: That was kind of my impression in the few minutes I could stand.
SiubhanDuinne
@AnonPhenom:
Yup, I’ve been waiting for that.
Archon
Biden has found his footing thank God
JerseyBeard
This has been horrific moderation and a terrible format. Convicted Felon is just allowed to lie nonstop with no check. Donald John Mountain Dew Camacho Trump won this thing with all the wrong people.
Frankensteinbeck
Okay, I decided I’d better watch the last half hour or so personally.
Biden sounds sick, in a literal laryngitis sense. Some stumbling, clearly got a lot done has a lot to talk about.
Trump sounds clear, energetic, and absolutely deranged, going on and on about an invasion of migrants. I mean, that’s great with his core voters, but for everyone he’s acting like the guy you try to stay on the far end of the bus from and hope one of you gets off soon.
It’s not the debate that I wanted, but I’m not scared by it.
Soprano2
TCFG is not answering any of the questions at all, but the moderators aren’t pointing that out.
NotMax
@Leto
The kids in Bristol are sharp as a pistol when they do the Sasquatch Stomp.
:)
SiubhanDuinne
“He’s never fired anybody!”
debit
Joe, answer “This is not the Apprentice.”
TBone
GO GO GO JOE
SW
Make it stop!
Leto
Joe- It IS a waste of time. I’m the President of the United States, and I’m on stage with a convicted felon. What the fuck am I doing here?
hrprogressive
@zhena gogolia:
He started off sharper than Joe in the first 20 odd mins, but as time has gone on, he’s gone more off the rails.
Not quite as bad as “sharks and batteries” at a rally, but for anyone seeking answers from these two men, they really aren’t getting any from The Felon right now.
db11
This isn’t good, but neither is it the ball game. The damage done is that Biden’s appearance / thin voice and verbal stumbles will give additional ammunition to those pre-existing narratives about his age/fitness.
But the real question is will it really change anyone’s vote? Trump has owned abortion, more tax cuts for the rich, his ridiculous tarif proposal and has completely ignored climate change.
Biden isn’t the most vital flag-carrier, but he is leading a very strong team defending an impressive record of legislative accomplishment and executive action (leaving Israel/Gaza aside).
It doesn’t change one iota what needs to be done by Democrats in the lead-up to the election.
Suzanne
@Ohio Mom: I just got home from my yoga class and SuzMom said, “It’s a bloodbath”. I’m ignoring it.
hrprogressive
@AnonPhenom:
I don’t think we’re gonna get this, unfortunately.
The bloggers are gonna have to raise that specter.
Leto
@NotMax: the Beatles missed a gold mine there; that’s why nobody’s heard of them! ;)
TBone
There’s the smile I’ve been waiting for
VFX Lurker
Collecting campaign ad fodder for the next four months. I understand the felon sounds like a nutball.
Leto
Again, Joe looking at Trumpov like he has leper’s wang on his forehead.
Tim Apple… paging Tim Apple to the debate…
MomSense
@Leto:
In the rusty farm implements way.
This is soooo awful
Leto
JFC, HIS ANSWER WAS NONSENSE DON’T GO BACK AND GIVE HIM MORE TIME! FFS
hrprogressive
Again, an hour ago, it really felt awful.
It doesn’t feel as bad now.
But it wasn’t the SOTU Joe hitting home runs out of the park, which would’ve been great.
Convicted Felon Donald Trump continues to word salad a lot of bullshit buzzwords that aren’t going to make a lot of casual voters decide he’s the guy they want to get a second shot.
But to all those predisposed to whining about Biden being old, and hating two old white men as our choices…aside from the whole “Fascism/Not Fascism” bit, there isn’t much argument to be had there. That’s a tough truth.
But Convicted Felon Donald Trump being asked questions multiple times without answering them…
Those soundbites won’t help him with contrarian voters, at least.
Anotherlurker
I watched about the first 10 minutes of this shitshow. I thought President Biden sounded a bit hoarse and tired but I thought he answered his questions fine. I don’t see where all the wrist slitting pessimistic vibes are coming from.
The moderators really suck and the lack of live fact checking is really annoying. Fact checking the Great Orange Cancer should be a target rich environment. MHO is that this won’t move the needle much, if at all.
Soprano2
I wish they would point out that TCFG isn’t answering any of the questions. Everything is about the border for TCFG, they must have tested it and saw that was his best issue.
Leto
@MomSense: pitchfork is too kind. All I’m going to say. In agreement with VFX, campaign fodder to help slap the damn normies every day on who/what the orange fart stain is.
SiubhanDuinne
Here we go: “President Biden, you are old.”
Ohio Mom
@Leto: That stomp cheered me. No matter what else happens, there will always be a stomp.
Leto
@Soprano2: THEY KEEP GOING BACK AND GIVING HIM MORE TIME TO TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION; STOP FUCKING DOING THAT
OMFG THE AGE QUESTION; WHERE’S THE LIQUOR?!?!
MomSense
@Leto:
We may need more than slaps. Shock collars?
MomSense
@Leto:
I DRANK ALL THE LIQUOR! I DON’T HAVE ENOUGH LIQUOR FOR THIS BULLSHIT.
debit
OMG the cognitive tests.
debit
BURN!!!!!
hrprogressive
Biden laughing while Convicted Felon Donald Trump pointed at his head like a nutcase isn’t a bad meme in waiting.
Betty
Oh, Trump acing his cognitive tests every year. He plays gold real good too.
zhena gogolia
@debit: What was that?
Leto
God… lighter? LIGHTER? ARE WE ON THE MOON, MOTHERFUCKER??? Fucking cognitive tests…
@MomSense: NEITHER DOES THE WORLD! Jesus; hahahaha if you carry your own bag… fucking lol
Leto
HE WON’T ACCEPT THE RESULTS; WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THAT QUESTION?
SW
This is an indictment of Biden’s team. He needed to focus on looking relaxed and in command. The issues are on his side. It doesn’t appear that he did the right kind of prep.
debit
@zhena gogolia: Biden very ironically called out what Trump claims as his height and weight.
Elie
Honestly, did Biden’s people not expect Trump to lie, lie, lie and not answer questions??? Seriously, what did they prepare for?
I think Biden is recovering some but I am disappointed and scared, frankly. I plan to lay it out there to get a win for Biden — and democracy but we have our work cut out for us. I don’t think there will be another debate but we will see….
Tired? I’m sure Joe is tired. But he has to do what he can to push on. The barbarians are at the gate…
zhena gogolia
@debit: Oh, I want to see that clip!
hrprogressive
Another complete non-answer. Normies looking for real answers aren’t getting it from Convicted Felon Donald Trump.
Captain C
I am experiencing this mostly via here (and a little through Bluesky), but it sounds like Biden might benefit from a new comms and prep team who will coach him to
a) respond to TCFG’s Gish gallops with something like “Do you believe this/these [malarkey/bull/lies]? That’s all he does [perhaps occasionally adding, “what a con man!”]. Our campaign website will have a thorough fact check up tomorrow, but here’s the truth [leisurely and succinct answer to question or whatever he wants to say to the issue at hand]”,
b) keep needling TCFG about his convictions, his company’s convictions on “charges of massive business fraud” (let TCFG try to spin it away), his business and Presidential failures, his two impeachments (“only saved by your lapdogs in the Senate”), Jan 6, anything that TCFG might be sensitive about, even things like if TCFG crows about his business prowess, Biden responds with, say, “you bankrupted 3 casinos and an entire football league!”,
and c) related to this, Biden salts his speaking with well-timed and relentless variations on “convicted felon” like “the 34-time convicted felon and fraudster” and “that convicted felon over there.”
(edited to make it not a single-paragraph potential mess)
MomSense
@debit:
PERSON MAN WOMAN CAMERA TV
I FUCKING ACED THAT COGNITIVE TEST. NO ONE EVER ACED A COGNITIVE TEST LIKE I ACED THAT COGNITIVE TEST
Michael Bersin
Golf? Golf? Club championship?
I’m waiting for Trump to say, “…Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?…”
Captain C
@Leto: Too bad they didn’t/couldn’t think to say, “OK, Donald, you didn’t really answer the question but that’s your time. Moving on…”
debit
“You’re such a whiner.”
Betty
@SW: I agree. He had too much information and stumbled trying to cram it all into the time limit. That and his voice going haywire hurt his performance. Of course, Trump just blabbed his fact-free garbage.
hrprogressive
Asked a second time if he’d accept the results of the election, he goes back to Russia and Ukraine.
Asked a third time, he caveats it with nonsense about things being “fair and legal”, which of course means “only if I win”.
Biden pointing out zero courts agreed with the Big Lie about 2020 is good.
“You can’t accept loss, you snapped when you lost”
Good.
Again, it got better for Biden as time went on. It did.
Still anxiety inducing.
Captain C
@Michael Bersin: “I’m the only man ever to win the grand slam in golf! I did it twice. Even Tiger Woods couldn’t do it and I did it twice. He said “Sir,” he always calls me sir, [vaguely racist ramble about Tiger Woods by TCFG implied and omitted so I don’t actually have to write it], “sir, you are simply the greatest folfer in histor-, histor (10-second pause), tree! Jack Palmer and I couldn’t scramble you in an egg!”
Sister Golden Bear
MOAR!
Leto
@MomSense: that’s pretty much what he did. Fucking whiner.
Captain C
@SW:
@Captain C:
Also what SW said, more succinctly.
dimmsdale
@Betty: this is true, and I’m stunned Joe wasn’t better prepped to handle the Gish Gallop business. For all that Bash and Tapper are functioning in ‘sleep’ mode, in the sense of hewing to standards of journalism, whoever prepped Joe let the whole country down by not getting him ready to take Trump head-on.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
There were supposed to be live commentary on the Washington Post but it stopped after the first half hour. I wonder if they were having technical issues.
Jay
@hrprogressive:
It was never going to be SOTU Joe Biden. That was a speech, where you can carry a narrative.
This is a “debate”, where the Moderators just ask the unconnected stand alone questions and all they have control over is the mic’s.
On one side, you have President Joe Biden, listening, understanding and responding to the questions, on the other side you have The Felon in full gish gallop and lies, and so unresponsive to the questions, as if he is not listening at all.
dimmsdale
@Captain C: Makes sense to me. I don’t understand why Biden’s comms team didn’t do that, or a version of that. If Biden is thought to have “lost” the debate tonight, the loss will actually be theirs, and the country certainly deserves better than that.
Geoduck
Biden’s people are evidently admitting he has a cold.
Ohio Mom
Ugh. Now I have a totally distraught husband. Another reason to hate Trump.
Tim in SF
I gave up ten minutes in. I am constitutionally incapable of watching Trump lie for minutes on end without getting adequately called on it. And Biden sounded so hoarse. I said “fuck it, I’ll watch the highlights later.”
Pod Save America will tell me how bad it was, tomorrow.
I suspect that the undecideds aren’t watching this thing anyways.
I also have a hard time believing that women will vote for this guy, knowing that he is ultimately responsible for overturning Roe, and has promised a national abortion ban.
Emily B.
Let’s sleep on it and see how it settles. Biden was waaay unimpressive on several levels, but he did successfully execute a strategy of triggering Trump. I thought Trump seemed more deranged than I remembered—also, his shtick felt really stale.
VOR
@hrprogressive: I think the problem is Biden prepared to debate a normal person. They clearly programmed Biden with all sorts of phrases and factoids. You can see him struggling to remember “was that 11.2 or 11.3?” and because of his stutter he has to carefully choose his words. It makes him look halting and, unfortunately, old.
Meanwhile Trump is using the Gish Gallop strategy of delivering lies at a blistering pace, far beyond anyone’s ability to fact check. Practically every sentence is a lie. He’s basically saying all the stuff he says at his rallies. Where Biden is trying to get the factoid correct, Trump just says up is down, black is white, and I was the greatest President ever.
Watching the debate, Biden initially seemed caught off guard by the stream of blatant lies. Eventually he began reacting, including stating outright that Trump was lying. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen politicians, especially Presidential candidates, call the other candidate a liar to his face on national TV.
The moderators did nothing, nothing at all, about the lies. They tried, a little, to restate the question and get Trump to answer. Maybe there was an agreement that they wouldn’t fact check. Or maybe Trump’s strategy of working the refs all week inspired caution.