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You are here: Home / Music / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: What We Leave Behind

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: What We Leave Behind

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This has been (quite reasonably) a pretty downbeat day on the blog… so I thought I’d share a nice little piece from one of my favorite living writers about a band some of us may love. Will Leitch, at the Washington Post, on “How the Biggest Rock Band in the World Disappeared” [gift link]:

Michael Stipe turned 65 right after New Year’s. Every generation has their “our childhood heroes are how old now?” moment — jaws surely dropped when Rita Hayworth turned 65, which is the precise age she became soon after Stipe’s band, R.E.M., released “Murmur,” its first album — but there is something about this particular rock star becoming eligible for Medicare that sticks in one’s gullet. Kurt Cobain, were he still here, would be just a couple of years from turning 60 himself. So you know.

It will have been 14 years this March since R.E.M. — an Athens, Georgia, foursome that for a stretch of about five years in the 1990s was arguably the biggest rock band on the planet — released its final album, “Collapse into Now.” Six months later, the band retired, with Stipe saying, “the skill in attending a party is knowing when it’s time to leave. We built something extraordinary together. We did this thing. And now we’re going to walk away from it.”

And then R.E.M. did something more or less no other band has ever done: It stopped playing. Berry, Buck, Mills and Stipe walked away. They have played one song together in the last 14 years, “Losing My Religion,” at their induction into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and they are explicit about it not happening again. When CBS’s Anthony Mason asked them, on a rare media appearance on “CBS This Morning” last year, what it would take for them to reunite, bassist Mike Mills said, “a comet.”…

Stipe occasionally does solo appearances, including singing at a Kamala Harris rally in Pennsylvania, and he put out a photography book last year, but on the whole, he just quietly goes about his life like the rest of us. The rest of the band is the same way. The other three members of R.E.M. still live in Athens, something I know for certain because I also live in Athens, and I regularly see them walking around, shopping for groceries, getting coffee, watching a baseball game, blending into the architecture…

In retrospect, it is kind of crazy that a group of four indie rockers from a college town in Georgia who wrote jangly wistful songs and were forever obsessed (and successful!) with keeping their indie credibility became the biggest rock band in the world. The band had its moment, it made some truly beautiful, often downright perfect songs, and then it moved on…

Reader Interactions

210Comments

  3. 3.

    Jay

    I first heard R.E.M. at the UBC War Memorial Gym, in 1986 when they were just one of the bands in the show.

    That night, they were “the Band”,

  4. 4.

    SpaceUnit

    Athens had such a great music scene.  I was living in Charleston, SC during most of the 80’s and we’d regularly make the pilgrimage to Athens to see bands like Guadalcanal Diary, Love Tractor, etc.

  5. 5.

    KatKapCC

    an Athens, Georgia, foursome that for a stretch of about five years in the 1990s was arguably the biggest rock band on the planet

    I won’t argue that R.E.M. wasn’t huge for a while there, but this is…a bit over the top. “Arguably” is doing a lot of work in this sentence.

  8. 8.

    Jay

    @KatKapCC:

    Because of CanCon rules, (for radio stations, tv, etc, 70% of content here has to be Canadian), for almost a decade, R.E.M was “the” US content on many radio stations here.

    Probably different in Calgary and Winterpeg.

  11. 11.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I always found REM fans to be pretty insufferable in their smug presumption that unlike all other bands/genres, Indie music was the only REAL music.  I always hated that shit.

  12. 12.

    lollipopguild

    We have a culture where people do not want to ever “leave”. Having said that there are celebrities who do slip away into normal living.

  16. 16.

    cmorenc

    Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I expected Fleitch was going to tell us that the Rolling Bones, er Rolling Stones had finally hung it up before they needed to perform in walkers.  Not that I am dissing on REM as a top-flight band with impact, but “greatest ever” is a real stretch compared to the Stones.  The other clear qualifier for “greatest ever” is obviously long-disbanded (Beatles).  But no R&R band has had the top-level longevity + impact than the Stones – “Gimme Shelter” for example.

  20. 20.

    Gin & Tonic

    @E.: It is scientifically proven that the best music is that which was playing when you were a senior in high school.

  21. 21.

    Betty Cracker

    I’m square in the target demographic—love REM & bands like the B-52s that modeled angsty progressivism for a problematic generation. Good for Stipe for knowing when to leave the party.

  22. 22.

    prostratedragon

    PSA: At least this and next Weds on TCM are devoted to Hitchcock’s sound rra English pictures. Tonight, a documentary and Blackmail, followed in the overnight by Murder! and The Skin Game. I’ve heard he was very unsatisfied with the latter because of studio interference, but it’s not bad, and picks up many of his later themes, as does Blackmail in particular.

  24. 24.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Jay: I love Rush, so probably not.

    To be clear: I hated the whole cool-kid ironic detachment and looking down on musicians who wanted to master their instruments.  The whole “solos are lame” attitude.  Like fine if you just wanna strum chords but refusing to do anything technically challenging or complex doesn’t somehow make your music any more REAL than anyone other music.  And there was a lot of that attitude that anyone who could tune their guitar or heaven forbid, wanted to make it as a musician was some kind of sellout.  

  30. 30.

    Jay

    @Gin & Tonic:

    For some people. Meatloaf, Chilliwack, Blue Oyster Cult, Rush, etc were the radio plays when I was in Highschool,

    but for me, it was the later music, that I had to find, that was the “best” music, of my youth. Slow, Fine Young Cannibals, R.E.M., Dead Kennedy’s, The Pogues, Spirit of the West, etc,

    I think that the last “new” music I listened to and liked were “PowWow” groups like A Tribe Called Red, and that was almost a decade ago.

  31. 31.

    Chris

    @cmorenc:

    Yeah, when people say “greatest band ever,” my first thought is still the Beatles. They’re not my favorite and they’re from long before my time, but I think they still take the cake.

  32. 32.

    Craig

    I saw them in a club when Murmur came out. They were really good, like they already knew that they were really good. 18 months later and they were playing college gyms. I fell off them around the time I could understand the words. South Central Rain remains on of my all time favorite songs.

  33. 33.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    Back in the late 80s and early 90s one of the big insults in my world was, “You’re a sell out!” And then poof…..everyone was selling out to make that sweet cash.  Good on REM for hanging it up when they felt they were out of time.

  34. 34.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @apocalipstick: Totally.  REM’s music was sophisticated and great.  But the indie assholes I’m referring to were always holding up REM as the band that was so much realer than everyone else.  It was their fans that drove me nuts.  If you want an example of this attitude in real time just read the comments of any Loomis music post over at LG&M.  It’s rampant there.

  35. 35.

    Craig

    @apocalipstick: I remember reading somewhere in the 80s (Melody Maker?) Buck referring to his playing as stringing together a bunch of ‘pithy little guitar lines.’

  36. 36.

    Montanareddog

    @apocalipstick: exactly how i feel about George Harrison and Mike Campbell; their guitar work was always in service to the song and not flashy, look-at-me stuff

  41. 41.

    KatKapCC

    @Montanareddog: Mike Campbell is SO underrated as a guitarist and musician, probably because he was never flashy and never cared about not being the frontman. But he was and still is an incredible guitar player, and also songwriter, since he did co-write the music for many of their songs.

  42. 42.

    Jay

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Rush, Chilliwack, Honeymoon Suite, LoverBoy, Bryan Adams,  etc is okay, in small doses, that’s not what CanCon delivered. It was an endless loop.

    After midnight, in certain areas of the Lower Mainland, we could get the UBC Student Radio tuned in. We lived for that.

    Probably why in my late 30’s, got into Jazz.

  43. 43.

    Craig

    @Montanareddog: a few years ago I discovered that Mike Campbell wrote Boys of Summer on a Linn Drum he was messing around with. He played it for Jimmy Iovine who told him to play it for Don Henley. Henley loved it and wrote the lyrics and Mike Campbell bought a new house. Still can’t believe I didn’t hear that guitar part as him all this time, but now it just jumps out at me. Top 5 favorite guitar player for me.

    Here’s a flashy bit of showmanship.

    youtu.be/QpG09PenZt8?si=55pjjbsqhD4lUMfx

  47. 47.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Craig:

    I saw them in a club when Murmur came out…I fell off them around the time I could understand the words.

    I knew someone would beat me to it mentioning how their lyrics were incomprehensible in the early days. I have several of REM’s CDs, ending at Monster but Murmur is my hands down favorite.

  48. 48.

    MomSense

    Love REM. Saw them live way back around 1982 or so when Radio Free Europe was getting lots of play on the radio. My friend’s older brother took us to the concert and I felt really cool.
    I know I’m an old now because the easy listening Muzak that played at all the stores when I was a kid has been replaced by the songs I listened to in high school. Sometimes I just bust out and sing full volume when I’m at Home Despot.

  50. 50.

    Craig

    Since riding down this little nostalgia rabbit hole I just put on Let’s Active. First REM producer Mitch Easter’s band with Sara Romweber. Beautiful jangle pop. Sara’s brother was wild man rocker Dexter Romweber of the Flat Duo Jets. On a given night Flat Duo Jets were the best fucking band in the whole wide world and only a fool would play after them.

  51. 51.

    Matt McIrvin

    Bands stop playing all the time, but if they’re all still alive and functional, it’s usually because they just wanted to stop playing with each other. Often, they can’t stand each other by that point. Seems to happen a lot.

    (my favorite R.E.M. album is Monster, the one with the huge crunchy guitar sound: “What’s The Frequency, Kenneth?” is an all-time banger)

  57. 57.

    KatKapCC

    @Craig: Tom had such a great rock voice but when he would do those more light, delicate vocals like in the beginning of that version, it was just gorgeous.

  58. 58.

    apocalipstick

    @Matt McIrvin: Everything I’ve read seems to point toward the members of REM deciding that they would prefer to remain friends and not play than vice versa.

  59. 59.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Manyakitty: “Driver 8” is awesome, it’s about a train. If you’re an American musician you can’t beat a train song, it’s axiomatic.

    (also: “Cuyahoga”, “Fall On Me”, “Swan Swan H”, come to think of it I listened to “Lifes Rich Pageant” a lot in college)

  61. 61.

    Matt McIrvin

    @apocalipstick: amazing thing: They Might Be Giants are still touring.

    (It helps that the core band is just two guys–less to go wrong. The rest of the lineup didn’t stabilize until the 2000s, but I guess they’ve been together quite a while now.)

  64. 64.

    Montanareddog

    @Craig: My personal anecdote about that song. My wife and I went to see TPATHB in 2012. We are both short and stood to one side of the stage to get a better view, near some crush barriers protecting  the route from the dressing room. A guy comes out on the other side and a few people rush to get his autograph and selfies and my wife, curious, goes over and he stands there with a “do you want an autograph or not?” look on his face. And she looks at him with a “am I supposed to know who you are?” look on hers. He then gets up on stage and co-sings The Waiting. It was Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam were playing town the next night).

  66. 66.

    Hildebrand

    Whilst many in my college years would’ve concurred about REM,  my favorite (and best live shows I’ve ever seen) was Midnight Oil.  Staggeringly good, and solid progressive advocacy.

  67. 67.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Matt McIrvin: What I find interesting is the bands that are at the service of a bandleader and function like grad school for the musicians. More common in jazz, like the Ellington bands, Art Blakey, Miles Davis, Gary Burton, all of whom produced top-level independent musicians. The closest I can come in the more-or-less rock sphere is Zappa.

    ETA: Well, the Dead changed a lot of personnel over time, but it’s not like Miles’ groups.

  72. 72.

    Geminid

    @Matt McIrvin: Hell, the Zombies played Charlottesville last year. They were on a US tour, flogging their new album (and having fun I hope). Those guys are old.

     But theyre not as old as Johnny Mathis, and he played Charlottesville too.

  74. 74.

    raven

    @cmorenc: The Rolling Bones was a spinoff from the Normaltown Flyers that played acoustic Stones songs at Allen’s (as in the B 52’s Deadbeat Club).

  75. 75.

    japa21

    @Another Scott: I expected there to be a post on it.  Both Mrs. Japa and I were complaining about the dust level.

    It was a very good speech.  In fat, I would go so far to say that it was an exceptional speech.

  76. 76.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Hildebrand: Music YouTuber Todd in the Shadows has a series called “One-Hit Wonderland” where he talks about the histories of one-hit wonders, and for a while he was taking requests for money, and someone paid him to do Midnight Oil. And I think he objected almost as much as I do to the idea that Midnight Oil was a one-hit wonder. I mean, I wouldn’t even say they were in the US, I remember a bunch of their songs getting serious airplay. But cash is cash.

  80. 80.

    PJ

    @Matt McIrvin: Diesel and Dust went platinum in the US, and Blue Sky Mining went gold.  While they only had one Top 40 hit here, and it’s forcing it to say they were one hit wonders.  Beyond that, they were one of the Top 10 live bands I have ever seen (and I’ve seen thousands of acts.)

  81. 81.

    Quinerly

    @SpaceUnit:

    Pick me, pick me! Winking emoji.

    G&T says, “It is scientifically proven that the best music is that which was playing when you were a senior in high school.”

    “Da Ya Think I’m Sexy” by Rod Stewart was THE SONG in 1978, my last year in HS.

    Let’s pick a fight with Gin & Tonic. I say he is WRONG. Laughing emoji.

  84. 84.

    Shana

    REM is hands down my favorite band of all time. They came up in the early 80’s when I was just out of college, and had been listening to the kind of bands that REM was. When I first heard Chronic Town it fit right in with all the college rock bands I’d spent the last four years listening to. They grew with me as I got older and until the last couple of albums which didn’t say anything much to me or my life. I have always been a little mystified by their absence (except for a couple of big hits) on the radio or Spotify now.

  85. 85.

    clay

    Some of the members of R.E.M. are still making music.  Last year I saw The Baseball Project open for Jason Isbell.  The Baseball Project is a band that includes both Peter Buck and Mike Mills, so exactly one-half of R.E.M.

    My sixteen-year-old daughter was at that show with me, and she’s been very tolerant of my efforts to instill in her my musical tastes… she’s gotten a little into R.E.M., but not as much as she’s gotten into Indigo Girls, Springsteen, and Tom Petty.

    (It’s a two-way street, by the way.  She’s definitely gotten me into Taylor Swift and a couple of others.)

  87. 87.

    Uncle Cosmo

    Somewhat o/t, but the post title brought to mind the prefatory note to The Lice, W. S. Merwin’s 1967 book of poems. It’s a quote from Heraclitus:

    All men are deceived by the appearances of things, even Homer himself, who was the wisest man in Greece; for he was deceived by boys catching lice: they said to him, “What we have caught and what we have killed we have left behind, but what has escaped us we bring with us.”

    On the flip side of that page in my copy (rescued from a secondhand bookshop), after a surprisingly long chat after his reading, he scrawled

    W.S. Merwin

    I hope it goes on
    coming to you

    December 1 1982

    Goucher

    Wondrous words of encouragement for someone who in his own halting words (but his own images) had been striving to capture the oracular magic of his deceptively simple style for the previous decade. Good memories…​

  89. 89.

    p.a.

    Maps and Legends or Fall on Me for their best songs, but that just indicates the overall quality of their work.  Tourfilm is great.

     

    People criticize old rockers playing into their Social Security years, but nobody slammed Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, John Lee Hooker etc. for keeping on keeping on.  Cultural treasures shouldn’t have a required retirement age.  (Although I know enough about how this country and the music industry works (worked?) that black musicians may have had to keep working to pay the bills.)

  91. 91.

    SpaceUnit

    @Quinerly:

    Most of the music that people were listening to when I was in high school sucked.  It was mostly classic rock and top 40 garbage and I was over it.

  92. 92.

    Shana

    @Matt McIrvin: First time I saw They Might Be Giants they were still a 2-piece with recorded backup. At Metro in Chicago some people up front were getting rowdy and moshing and hurting people so they had to stop Don’t Lets Start, admonish the rowdies and wait for the recording to rewind so they could start again. Great show.

  93. 93.

    Gin & Tonic

    @raven: Well, Pigpen died, Tom Constanten sort of replaced him but not really, and left, Donna Godchaux came in a little after TC left; she left in 1979, Keith also came and went in the same timeframe, Brent Mydland came in after Keith left. Bruce Hornsby toured with them for a couple of years before Jerry died. That’s off the top of my head.​

    ETA: Maybe “changed a lot of personnel” overstates things. The core was the core throughout.

  94. 94.

    SpaceUnit

    @raven:

    Some of that rings a bell.  It’s been a while.  I remember a place called the 40 Watt Club.  And I seem to remember hearing that the Georgia Theater burned down at some point.

  95. 95.

    clay

    @raven: Nice. You’re likely aware, but Peter Buck has had a lot of projects, including Filthy Friends with one of the Sleater-Kenney women.

  97. 97.

    Ruckus

    We all move on at some moment.

    Life has stages. Infancy to old fartitus. And many steps/stops along the way. And then one day….

    One thing that has always made me wonder was what is it like when some skill or desire you had fades away. We all have way points in life. Some we control and some we don’t. Some of us control some things better than others, it’s a skill, we don’t all have the concept/ability to control even ourselves. I have things I did for decades – work things, a sport thing, etc. And then one day I had enough. It didn’t have the draw it once did, or I didn’t have the desire. And I’d bet most of us are at some point along our own ride from the start to the last vacation – retirement.

  98. 98.

    Melancholy Jaques

    I don’t know what band was the biggest in the 90s – I would have guessed Pearl Jam or Green Day – but REM was pretty huge in Europe. More so than in the States.

    I resist ranking things where personal taste is involved. If it’s your favorite & it makes you happy, then that’s your greatest & I’m happy for you.

  99. 99.

    trollhattan

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I figure during any given extended set they probably “changed personnel” more time than Marianne Williamson appears and disappears from the nearest kombucha bar.

  100. 100.

    kalakal

    @p.a.:

    People criticize old rockers playing into their Social Security years,

    I think in a lot of cases it’s what they are, what they’ve been doing, and they love it. (I’m not talking about ones who need the money) .

    Paul McCartney is the last musician on earth who has anything to prove or needs the money but the only thing that’ll stop him is the Grim Reaper

  102. 102.

    Quinerly

    @raven:

    And, maybe you have heard my Monkees stories. I mentioned them here a few years ago. I was madly in love with Micky. The son of my mother’s first cousin was around 18 or 19 in the summer of 1967. I was 6. Micky was my first crush (next to Jim West (Robert Conrad) “Wild, Wild West.” ) Soooo, my distant cousin took another cousin and me to Greensboro, NC to see the Monkees. The distant cousin wanted to see the opening act. My very first concert. I still have the program but sadly not the ticket stub.

    Needless to say, I was very confused when this tall, skinny Black guy came out and opened for my Micky playing this weird, non Monkees music. “Purple something.” Winking emoji.

    That tall Black guy only played a few shows with the Monkees, 2 of which were in NC. Unfortunately, he died in 1970 so I never got to see him again when I was older and could have appreciated him.

    Second, Monkees story….saw them in St. Louis. Reunion tour 1986. Just wasn’t the same.😎

    Final Monkees story…love Michael Nesmith. Saw him a few years ago in a small, St. Louis club. He was fabulous. Told stories, sang, played. Really cool show. I got to chat with him and get his autograph. Plus, I got to tell him about my first “Monkees Experience” in 1967 at age 6 in Greensboro. He hugged me. We laughed. I was very sad when he passed away in 2021. Good man. Talented musician and songwriter.

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Not when I was a senior in HS. Of course that was in the way back. Way, way back is more like it.

    Now that didn’t mean that it wasn’t liked, we just didn’t know what was to come, in actually a rather short time.

  104. 104.

    TBone

    Has no one yet mentioned the B-52s (Athens, GA) because they were pretty big in my GenX world.

    I see Betty Cracker did!

  105. 105.

    Ruckus

    @Chris:

    They opened up the concept of not the same old sounds. Plus the time they started the youngsters of the world were ready for a change to what young music was. Oh and they had the talent and drive to bring change.

  106. 106.

    dc

    How can the author say this as if it were a fact?

    And then R.E.M. did something more or less no other band has ever done: It stopped playing.

    Yeah, I guess all other bands have kept (and will keep) playing together till they literally drop dead.

  107. 107.

    BlueGuitarist

     

    @Geminid:

    Your comment reminded me of this classic Onion article:

    “DETROIT—Peter Wolf, a pitiful, has-been rock musician who hasn’t had a platinum record since 1981, has now spent more than 40 happy years doing exactly what he always wanted, reports confirmed this week. “It’s so sad to see that guy still out on tour after all this time,” a source said of the washed-up loser who has been able to walk out on a stage multiple nights a week for more than four decades and play music of his own creation while being cheered on enthusiastically by a paying audience. ”

    theonion.com/pathetic-washed-up-rock-star-on-fifth-decade-of-doing-1819577132/

  114. 114.

    Quinerly

    @BlueGuitarist:

    Don’t you go knocking the ex Mr. Faye Dunaway. Winking emoji

    His solo albums, ‘Sleepless” (guests on the album include Keith and Mick, Magic Dick, and Steve Earle) and “Midnight Souvenirs” (guests include Shelby Lynn and Merle Haggard) are fantastic. Was just listening to Peter yesterday. He always makes me smile.

    He’s out with his memoir and still touring, mostly in the NE. And still hot looking at almost 80.

  115. 115.

    Juju

    @UncleEbeneezer: That’s one of the reasons I stopped reading that blog. I think people should listen to what they like and what makes them happy. People should also use ketchup if that’s what they like.  If it doesn’t hurt you why should you care?

  117. 117.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Miss Bianca: I love the Monkees.

    You made me look up Head. I vaguely recall Frank Zappa telling them they’re the hope of the young generation but the quotes don’t say that. I should watch that movie again, it has been way too long.

  118. 118.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I’m partial to an indie band from Little Rhody, circa 1977. They hit it big for a while.

  119. 119.

    frosty

    The last new music I latched on to was the early 2000s when WTMD (Towson independent) was playing a ton of good stuff. Since then I’ve drifted away; when I listened not much grabbed me.

    But then my younger son gave me a Pandora subscription one Christmas, I found the Sarah Borges station and found good music again. Alt-country, female singers, jangly reverb guitars. I haven’t switched to anything else in two years!

  120. 120.

    Quinerly

    @Miss Bianca:

    I had a little skit when I was 8/9 that I would act out to the very obscure Monkees song….”Never Tell A Women Yes.”

    The lyrics still crack me up. I had no clue. I also told M. Nesmith when I met him that that song was my dad’s favorite Monkees song. (MN wrote and sang it on “The Monkees Present.” 1969.) Unfortunately, I couldn’t get him to play it.

  123. 123.

    Quinerly

    @Melancholy Jaques:

    Peter is very active and very personable on social media. Fun. I think it’s all him…not a hired media person. Posts pics from his house and gatherings with friends and family.

    Seriously, check out those 2 solo albums I mentioned. They are on Prime Music (I bought the CDs when they came out. He was on NPR…probably Terry Gross and has been on Jimmy Fallon). Those are my favorite 2 of the 4 more recent solos.

  128. 128.

    frosty

    @Quinerly: I gotta say it was 9th grade for me. Paint it Black and Rain (Beatles) among others. By senior year the Beatles were broken up and in my miserably backward neck of the woods San Francisco psychedelia hadn’t hit yet.

  129. 129.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Quinerly:

    Peter was also in the Artists United Against Apartheid, “Sun City,” the  1985 record of the year, organized by Little Steven.

  130. 130.

    Quinerly

    @Old School:

    I wish I could have seen one of those last shows with Micky Dolenz and Michael Nesmith before Nesmith died.

    If you have an interest, pull up the videos on line of those last couple of shows. So sweet.

  131. 131.

    Hildebrand

    @apocalipstick: We caught them again on their last tour in 22.  At first I thought they had mellowed, or lost a step, and then they found gears I didn’t think any band had.  Just an unbelievable show.

    The best bit was that my son was able to go to the show.  He had been listening to them as long as he was alive, and had been listening to me rave about their live shows just as long.  He just smiled after the show and said, ‘Dad, you undersold how great they are live.’

  134. 134.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Shana:

    First time I saw They Might Be Giants they were still a 2-piece with recorded backup.

    I remember those days! Saw them in Boulder, Colorado on the Flood tour. I think the first song they played was “Lie Still, Little Bottle” from Lincoln. And they played that in the last concert I saw, too, a month ago.

  135. 135.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    REM’s music was sophisticated and great. But the indie assholes I’m referring to were always holding up REM as the band that was so much realer than everyone else. It was their fans that drove me nuts. If you want an example of this attitude in real time just read the comments of any Loomis music post over at LG&M. It’s rampant there.

    Another parallel example of that ‘insufferable music snob’ attitude is Marcotte.  Back in her Pandagon days, several of us would go at her over fucking Sleater Kinney.  Same mindset with her as Gloomis projects to this day.

  136. 136.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: Scuse me while I kiss this fly. 😉. That must have been an interesting experience for a six year old.  When I was six I was taken to a play about Rumple Stiltskin.  Meeting Michael Nesmith would be something I’d never forget.  So much so that I think I will travel to Rio.

  137. 137.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Geminid:

    Rod Argent subsequently had a stroke so no longer touring.

    I saw them maybe 5 years ago and it was worth it mainly because of watching Argent go at it on the keyboards.

    I watched their guitarist in an unplugged show who blew me away.

  138. 138.

    Mike E

    I saw REM on my birthday over 20 years ago at which point they were a touring nostalgia band, Michael helpfully explained to the youngs in the crowd what a “cassette” was and what “left of the dial” meant. Bill came out at one point to play drums on a couple of songs iirc.

  139. 139.

    mvr

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I heard a good interview with a 1st-ish gen rapper on NPR (wish I knew who, but I’m not that up on the history or music in that genre) talk about how for everyone there is a window when the music that was what they were listening to then is just it for them.  And it has to do with the time of life as much as the music.  It struck me as wise and right.  For me it was the Clash and Elvis Costello and Reggae and old blues music and yes the Stones because I was going back in time to listen to stuff before my time.  But the big point is that my love for that stuff is as much about what I was doing and growing into at that time as the innate quality of the music.  This was when I was young a life seemed full of promise despite the things to be cynical about.  And so I still love that stuff. (Going to see EC in July in KCMO!)

  140. 140.

    RevRick

    @p.a.: Black musicians may have had to work past retirement age….

    There was no May have had to it. Between being screwed over by record companies and having to work for a pittance much of their careers, they only achieved fleeting financial success at best.

    Aging white rock stars milking more bucks from nostalgia tours of their long ago greatest hits are another category entirely.

  141. 141.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @p.a.:

    People criticize old rockers playing into their Social Security years, but nobody slammed Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, John Lee Hooker etc. for keeping on keeping on.

    Back when I was still in Central Misery, BB King came to Columbia MO, went to see him.  He sat.  His guitar playing probably wasn’t what it was 50 years prior but the instant he started singing, it was one long tingle moment.

    The next night I went to St Louis to see Jeff Beck.  Totally different show, still, one long tingle moment.

    I have learned that BB, vocal wise, was the exception to the rule in that as he aged, his voice didn’t decline.  Lots of others have.

  142. 142.

    Matt McIrvin

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Sleater-Kinney is good though.

    I did realize *exactly* how much just slightly older and nerdier than Amanda Marcotte I am when she went on about how Kurt Cobain’s suicide was the moment culture and society went to shit for our entire generation. I mean, Nirvana was a good band, I appreciated them and I was sad about it, but no, they weren’t that central to my psyche.

    I was more broken up when the space shuttle Challenger exploded, but that marks me as both a square and hopelessly naive about certain things. But being hopelessly naive is part of being young.

  144. 144.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    Well, traveling from Pitt County to Greensboro was pretty exotic for a 6 year old. I probably hadn’t been farther than Raleigh at that point.

    I think it’s amazing that 2 of 8 shows that Hendrix opened were in NC. I have very vivid memories of the concert. Lots of screaming kids and teenagers. There are a lot of us from NC who saw Hendrix at a very young age……and had no clue as to what we were seeing at the time.

  145. 145.

    mvr

    @Craig: I actually like them a lot. But I once walked out on them at a show in a bar.  The music was so loud it hurt and the place was too full of people.  This was in Portland Oregon in the earl/mid 80s and they had the reputation and I hadn’t heard them so I went.

    Years later I find out the club owner was counterfeiting tickets to shows in that club and selling it to double capacity.  Ended up murdering one of his employees to cover up those crimes. Got convicted on the murder.  So no wonder that particular night felt more like being assaulted than a concert.

    Never held it against REM.  Though I like their earliest stuff most.

    FWIW, another band out of Athens is the Drive by Truckers.  They’re kind of my current still active and writing new music band (as opposed to solo performer with a band).  Gave a kick-ass show a week after the 2016 election with a kind of protest rally vibe . . .

  150. 150.

    Kelly

    Ringo Starr’s cover of “You’re Sixteen” came out when I was a 17 year old high school senior with a 16 year old girlfriend. Yes, I sang along with the radio while we were in the car a few times. She thought it was charmingly dorky.

  151. 151.

    KatKapCC

    @mvr: YES. I always loved watching Tom and Mike trade off between them and sort of play off each other. And they each had their role that they were meant for and both filled it so well.

  152. 152.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    I was a Pantana Bob’s chick mostly. Was there after Buffett played a great show at Minges in 1981. (I think the student tickets were $5) He and his entourage came into Pantana’s and hung out. It was pretty wild. Best birthday present…the show was the day before my 20th birthday. (And then just a couple of months later we got Cheap Trick for another student show at Minges).

    Does ECU get good concerts now? I remember seeing “America,” “Pablo Cruise,” “Firefall,” “Toto,” and “Molly Hatchet” at Minges Coliseum. I think Livingston Taylor, too.

    And, of course, The Attic. Loved The Attic. Saw “The Pointer Sisters” there. Do you remember the band, “Brice Street?” Played regularly at The Attic.  Still playing around now….. 2 or 3 original members. Jack Atchison has kept them all together, minus the cute saxophone player (Steve Coble). I loved Brice Street

  153. 153.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: At the age of six how could you know?  My parents were not the type to let their children go to a concert like that. I was raised on Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. I knew all the words to Tit Willow and Three Little Maids.  My parents took my sister to see Harry Belafonte. I was considered to be too young, at six, but really I think, more of a case of my parents being a bit cheap. I would love to have seen Harry Belafonte.  I think you’re lucky you got to see the Monkees, and you have vivid fond memories of the experience.

  157. 157.

    mvr

    @KatKapCC: It would be hard to be MC these days, though he is doing a good job of keeping on.  Saw him do a show with the Dirty Knobs in Omaha a few years back and he still seems to be having fun and playing some of the songs he co-wrote. Definitely proud of his place in making that music. One of the signature TP/MC song things is a song with spare lyrics and a guitar part that just takes it the rest of the way. American Girl (which seems to have closed so many shows) is the archetype of that.

    I got lucky to have the band comp me tickets if I was willing to drive 500 miles to Red Rocks when they cancelled a Lincoln show. (Phone call: Do you still want to see Tom Petty?)  This was 2014 and it turned out they must have offered free tickets to eveyone from Lincoln in their fan club since there were a bunch of us near the front in one section.  Wonderful show.  Wonderful enough to do it again in 2016, for which I am very grateful.

  158. 158.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    At 5 I wanted to be Nancy Sinatra. My mother bought me white go go boots. I would lip sync to “These Boots Are Made For Walking.”

    I had a giant spoon with a clothesline cord tied to it (before the days of cordless mics😎) and a tinfoil star on my bedroom door.

    Only children can entertain themselves.

  160. 160.

    KatKapCC

    @mvr: Yeah, I heard some of Mike’s stuff with his current band and it’s really good! And I agree, some of the TPHB best songs were simpler ones. Tom didn’t need a ton of flowery lyrics to make a song hit hard. One of my favorites is Between Two Worlds, and aside from the chorus, there’s literally like 30 words to the song. But it’s excellent.

    I think that’s true for a lot of great songs. If you know what you’re doing, you don’t have to overdo it.

  161. 161.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: I didn’t know those groups played at Minges.  I have no idea how I missed the fact that they were there except that I didn’t start college until 1981 or 1982 and probably wasn’t paying attention. I missed some stuff I would have really enjoyed seeing.

  162. 162.

    blackmtn

    We (Black Mtn Instruments), made the electric dulcimer that Peter played on stage and later recorded with on Automatic for the People. He had an acoustic dulcimer before that that he recorded King of Birds with, but they were playing the big arenas then and needed something that would be less likely to feedback live. I made another one for him after REM that he still plays, often with Kevin Kinney of Drivin N Cryin.

  163. 163.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    My parents were pretty cool. Always encouraging me to do stuff…have experiences…be an individual.

    They were almost 40 when I was born so their era was Big Band, Sinatra, Dean Martin, Perry Como. My dad loved Patsy Cline. And, of course, Lawrence Welk every Sat night.

    Somehow, I totally missed the Beatles.

  164. 164.

    Quinerly

    @Juju: I was at ECU 78-82. Started at 17. Graduated from HS after my junior year, so no senior year in HS (Parrott in Kinston).

    I think “Heart”  and “The Kinks” played Minges after I graduated and was in St. Louis in law school. Mid 80’s.

  165. 165.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: I had gogo boots too!  Mine were a light gray that went with just about everything. I wore those boot out. Apparently they really were made for walking. I’m the fourth child of five. My parents were willing to put up with less and less from the children as the family got larger.  I envied my friends who were only children.

  166. 166.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    My mother saved my last pair of go go boots! I think I had a total of 2 or 3 pairs. Found the saved ones after she died. I just couldn’t throw them out. They are now here in Santa Fe.

    I freely admit that only children are odd ducks. I got a triple dosage of odd given my parents were each only children.

  167. 167.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Hildebrand: Midnight Oil is one of my all time favorite bands but damn, never saw them live. Other Aussie bands I did see were INXS and Icehouse.

  168. 168.

    mvr

    @blackmtn:

    Oh that’s really cool – to make instruments and dulcimers in particular.  I made one once 40 plus years ago, and then went on to make a couple/three guitars. And a nice uke for a friend last year.  But this is all as a hobby.  Getting to do that for a living would be a really nice gig.  Obviously you have done it well enough to keep going.  I’m jealous.

    One of my plans for my retirement is to make more instuments and I have been stockpiling wood for that end.

  170. 170.

    John Revolta

    So, I just got my 1099 in the mail and it was ripped open right next to where my SSN number is. Plainly visible. What should I do now? I’ve already got my reports frozen at the three credit bureaus- what else can I do?

  172. 172.

    Captain C

    @apocalipstick: He was/is part of a pretty cool band called Tuatara too.  I saw them once in Arizona (at a bar/venue designed to look like a New Orleans French Quarter street complete with curbs) opening for CeDell Davis, a bluesman who used a butter knife for a slide.

  173. 173.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @John Revolta: Alas, Social Security numbers are no longer secret. Does the IRS send you a PIN to use when filing? My info was stolen once and they have sent me a PIN ever since. Probably you can request one, they’ll probably send it to you in snail mail.

  174. 174.

    Captain C

    @Gin & Tonic: Vince Welnick was the permanent keyboardist after Brent until the end in 1995.  He did not participate in any of the various Dead family tours after the first one or two (IIRC due to non-fatally OD-ing on tour, which after what happened to Jerry was a big no-no), started his own band called Missing Man Formation, and often sat in with Grateful Dead tribute bands, including The Noodles from the Phoenix area, before sadly killing himself in, I think, 2006? or so.

  175. 175.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: My dad was a violinist with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra in the mid fifties. He quit to go to medical school. I was expected to be able to identify different composers and the musical concerto, symphony or whatever the musical composition was. Gilbert and Sullivan was the fun music.  When I was seven I got a record player that only played 45s and two records. My sister got a big  girl record player that played albums or 45s. She baby sat and had money to buy 45s. I got the ones she ended up not liking. That’s how I ended up with “Green Tambourine” which I thought was green tangerine.

    Your parents sound really cool. My parents, father especially, was mostly classical music, but my dad had a complete Glen Miller album collection, the Zorba the Greek music and just about everything done by the Tijuana Brass.  I remember my dad trying to teach us all the dances that went with the music.  I never really excelled at dancing, but it was fun trying.

  177. 177.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    No classical music at my house growing up. Pretty much everything else. I don’t even have any basic knowledge about classical music.

    My mom was an excellent dancer. My dad was not.

    I have been told that I dance like Elaine.😎 I think I have been accused unjustly.

  178. 178.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: If I knew what happened to my hobo boots I’d still have them too.

    Odd duck, lucky duck.  Could be both.  I’m glad you were here tonight. The last few days here have been overwhelming. Thanks for catching my attention and distracting me for a while.

  182. 182.

    Honus

    @raven: you and Jimi Hendrix.
    Last Train to Clarksville was written by Charlottesville’s Tommy Boyce.  It was originally titled Last Train to Scottsville, a little town at the east end of Albemarle County.

  183. 183.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    How’s your mom?

    If you ever want to communicate off line from here, get my email from Betty Cracker. I kinda think at one point we had each other’s info since we met that time at The Ruddy Duck.

    Anyway, feel free to reach out. Take care.

  184. 184.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @dc: That was the other thing that bugged me.  The article romanticizes ending a band as if that’s somehow the most noble path.

     

    @Honus: REM FANS!  Not the band itself (though Stipe seemed pretty self-important).  Rush is very pretentious, I agree.  Also haven’t listened to them in 30 years.

  188. 188.

    Anyway

    @Honus: you love Rush, and find REM pretentious.  OK, got where you’re coming from.

    Heh. I had the same thought! Nice thread about music, AL, despite attempts to make it about obnoxious fans or what not.

    Was a big Pearl Jam fan back in the day and listened to REM a lot too. TV on the Radio is another favorite.

    ETA – not sure I can watch the farewell speech yet. sigh

  189. 189.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jay: My mom liked contemporary folky stuff, Simon & Garfunkel and Joan Baez and such, and musical theater. Dad liked old doo-wop and R&B stuff, the Spinners, the Platters, the Coasters… also Elvis and Johnny Cash.

    But they played music in the house less than my little sister did, and I feel like the soundtrack of the late 70s in my life was defined by HER musical tastes. First Donny & Marie and old musical-theater albums she got from Mom, then Bee Gees, ABBA, Elton John, Paul McCartney & Wings, Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis. She bought a lot of 45s, so there were a lot of bands where she only had one single, like Kansas and some subset of CSNY.

    I was less into music than she was, started collecting on cassette in the mid-1980s. I think the first album I bought was Talking Heads, “Little Creatures”.

  191. 191.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: I will get your email from Betty Cracker. I had an email address for you but it stopped working. My mother is pretty much the same, but she seems to lose a bit of her memories each day. It’s the usual stuff plus some other things swirling around my neighborhood. It’s knocked me off my balance a bit.

  192. 192.

    Jay

    @Quinerly:

    They were, didn’t really last. Should have.

    Mom  was a Coal Miners daughter,  Dad was a Slovak refugee from WWI, who had a Swing Band for extra income,  her Mom was an English indentured servant. Mom was the “attraction”, get up and dance to get other people dancing.

    Dad was the elder child of an abusive Scot’s/English home. Grandad was a plumber/boiler maker who hid cash from US jobs in a trunk, Grandma was a nurse at the TB hospital who had affairs with doctors and stole morphine to feed her habit.

    Dad r-u-n-n-o-f-t-e-d at 17 to join the RCMP.

    Mom spent WWII as the VP of Alberta Telephone and Telegraph, moved back home when the war ended and a man was put back in charge.

    Mom, the “girls” and her brothers would drive down to Spokane, buy clothes, sheet music, bottles* and “Race records”.

    African American music like “Little Red Rooster” were banned in Canada.

    *bottles, were because Carl and Buddy’s ID Cards listed their profession as miners, not minors, so they could not buy booze in the US but the girls could.

    So Dad was posted to Canmore, and was sent amongst other RCMP members to break up the coal miner strike in Blairmore. They met at a dance at the Old Palisades, an open air dance floor across the river from the whorehouse. Her Dad’s band was playing, so Mom picked a guy from the audience and dragged him out onto the dance floor to get people dancing.

    That was Dad.

    The story continued.

  196. 196.

    Chris Johnson

    @raven: Keyboard players. Grateful Dead keyboard players are like Spinal Tap drummers. except it’s not real funny because when it’s not a comedy gag, it’s pretty heartbreaking. The story of Keith Godchaux, how he turned up and was a total gift and then declined into tragedy… and of course Brent Mydland. I saw Go Ahead in concert while they existed. Closest I ever got to attending a Dead show. Not too long thereafter I had to give up drugs and drinking for good…

  197. 197.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    I loved REM but not because they weren’t sellouts just because their music was great. You could make an argument that they were the biggest rock band going there for stretch in the early ’90s. The other contenders are U2 of course but they only put out one album – Achtung Baby – which sold like crazy but was only one album.

    REM put out three albums during my four years in college that all sold in pretty huge numbers – Green, Out of Time and Automatic for the People. Their singles also had a lot of chart success during that era. Definitely huge, maybe bigger than U2 in that moment. Probably Nirvana deserves consideration. Within a couple years Oasis comes along and gets huge. So I’m not saying it’s definitive but an argument could be made. Not sure how much it should count but it probably should matter to some extent that they were also critics’ darlings.

    Otherwise if all that matters is sales and radio plays Hootie and the Blowfish are probably the biggest band of the first half of the 90s with Counting Crows right on their heels. I mean I’m not going to look it up but both bands were completely unavoidable on the radio and Hootie’s album ranks among the top selling US albums of all time.

  198. 198.

    Anyway

    @Manyakitty: I weep for what we’re missing

    Michael ending with “twenty five days” was heartbreaking.

    I had seen this during the campaign but nice to watch again.

  199. 199.

    JML

    Part of what’s remarkable about REM is how many of their albums are contenders for their “best”. So many bands never approach the quality of their first (or second) album for anyone other than their biggest fans, and with REM you can make a fair argument that their 7th or 8th album is as good as anything else they ever did.

    I hope REM doesn’t lock themselves into this idea that they CAN’T ever play together again. While it’s great that they don’t need the money a reunion tour would bring or have any interest in doing it, since they all seem to still be friends I hope the idea doesn’t prevent them from strapping on the instruments and playing together again if they ever get the itch.

    Big fan of REM. Bummed that I never saw them live.

  200. 200.

    apocalipstick

    A great band out of the Athens scene that never quite made it was Vigilantes of Love. The album that might have been their masterpiece, Summershine, was released on 9/11.

    Their leader, Bill Mallonee, lives in NM now and is still making great music.

  201. 201.

    Quinerly

    @Jay:

    Fascinating. Would love to read more.

    BJ could also do with more threads like this.

    Have a great upcoming weekend.

  202. 202.

    Quinerly

    @Juju:

    Thread be dead. Hopefully you see this, though.

    Be sure to get my email. Once we reconnect, I will give you my phone #. We can talk anytime. My mom and I went thru dementia with my dad. So sorry you are going through this. I so enjoyed meeting your mother. Trying to figure out what year we were all at “The Duck.” You brought a present for my old Poco.

    Heart emojis in all the colors.

  204. 204.

    Manyakitty

    @Chris Johnson: oooh! Nice! Mine is on a CD with the title mixed up (Reconstruction of the Fables). Maybe that’s worth a few bucks, but nobody cares about CDs any more anyway.

  206. 206.

    Shana

    @Manyakitty: the album had both Reconstruction of the Fables and Fables of the Reconstruction listed as titles. My memory may be wrong but one was on the spine and one on the front as I recall

  207. 207.

    Manyakitty

    @Shana: that could be. I’d check, but my CDs are buried under a pile of other stuff right now. Might be good motivation to clear some of it away.

  208. 208.

    billcinsd

    @UncleEbeneezer: A. This does not describe REM at all.

    B. Early Rush is Libertarian horse-hockey. Having read some of your comments, I am not surprised you liked that

  210. 210.

    billcinsd

    @Craig: Mitch’s wife at the time Faye Hunter was the bassist in Let’s Active. Sadly, bot Sarah and Faye have since died

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