Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

A fool as well as an oath-breaker.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

I don’t recall signing up for living in a dystopian sci-fi novel.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Be a wild strawberry.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

In my day, never was longer.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / This Seems Bad (Open Thread)

This Seems Bad (Open Thread)

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But the TV told me he’s a successful self-made businessman!

New consumer sentiment data just out for April:

Americans’ expectations for how the economy will fare over the next year are now at their worst in 45 years.

Consumer confidence is down 40% since Trump’s inauguration, including a 20% drop among Republicans.

[image or embed]

— John Burn-Murdoch (@jburnmurdoch.ft.com) April 11, 2025 at 10:41 AM

I like how the x-axis label is “Recessions” and “Trump.” We’re all in the blast radius, and it sucks that those of us who didn’t vote for the slurring yam have to suffer damage because of other people’s idiotic choices. But maybe low-info swing voters will take their civic responsibility more seriously next time. (Ha, ha, nope!)

***

This is ominous:

NEW: The Trump admin tells Judge Xinis that her order last night demanding a status report on Abrego Garcia by 9:30 a.m. and a hearing at 1 p.m. is unreasonable.

“Due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch” requires a delay till next Tue/Wed storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us…

[image or embed]

— Joshua J. Friedman (@joshuajfriedman.com) April 11, 2025 at 9:27 AM

Remember, the Trump idiots admitted they shipped Kilmar Abrego Garcia off to a gulag due to an “administrative error,” and he has no criminal history in the U.S. or Venezuela. So here’s the “deference owed to the Executive Branch:” Fuck you, bring him back TODAY.

I’m starting to wonder if Abrego Garcia is still alive.  What a Kafkaesque nightmare.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

189Comments

  1. 1.

    catclub

    I’m starting to wonder if Abrego Garcia is still alive.

    I think the admin could (is more likely to) ask the El Salvadorans to kill him in a prison riot/ escape attempt.

  2. 2.

    Kristine

    And the talking heads will just claim that it’s carrryover from the Biden administration.

    I mean, they’re still blaming Obama for things.

  3. 3.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    Seems to me like a drastic remedy is called for. As in, for however long until Abrego Garcia is back in the United States and able to appear before the judge’s court, the Secretary of State and the Attorney General shall enjoy the hospitality of the judge’s court, pursuant to a finding of contempt.

  4. 4.

    Kristine

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    Seems to me like a drastic remedy is called for. As in, for however long until Abrego Garcia is back in the United States and able to appear before the judge’s court, the Secretary of State and the Attorney General shall enjoy the hospitality of the judge’s court, pursuant to a finding of contempt.

    They’ll need to find someone to take custody/lock them up first, and US Marshals are under the DOJ.

  6. 6.

    WaterGirl

    @Kristine: I read last week that judges have the ability to send someone to do that.  US Marshalls not required.

    I don’t have the details, but I read it multiple places.

  7. 7.

    WaterGirl

    May I just politely ask:

    WHY THE FUCK HAVE THEY NOT BEEN WORKING ON TRACKING HIM DOWN AND GETTING HIM RELEASED SINCE THEY KNEW HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN SENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

    *with apologies to different church lady for stepping into your ALL CAPS lane momentarily.

  8. 8.

    Ohio Mom

    It’s anecdotal but that graph accurately illustrates my current level of consumer confidence.

  9. 9.

    Steve LaBonne

    Quite an accomplishment to destroy the healthiest economy in the world in less than 3 months AND permanently wreck America’s credibility. Not everyone could have accomplished that but Trump is special. And hey, the long term damage not only to the economy but to every aspect of society is just beginning! Good times.

  13. 13.

    Kristine

    @WaterGirl:

    I read last week that judges have the ability to send someone to do that. US Marshalls not required.

    I don’t have the details, but I read it multiple places.

    I did, too, and I would *love* to see it.

    But taking action outside the box doesn’t seem to be gaining traction quickly enough, and I am guessing that any LEO that agreed to function in that capacity would get hammered from a number of directions.

    The first one to jump in the muck would make it easier for others to follow, but it takes a lot to decide to be that first one.

  14. 14.

    Ohio Mom

    That graph needs the presidents’ names added to it. Though I can figure it out by myself, it would make it easier for a casual observer to see the pattern of Republican vs Democratic administrations.

  15. 15.

    cope

    When (if) he is returned to the US, I expect Mr. Garcia will have lots to talk about regarding his experiences as well as the stories of other innocents scooped up and deported. When (if)…

  16. 16.

    Old Man Shadow

    @WaterGirl:WHY THE FUCK HAVE THEY NOT BEEN WORKING ON TRACKING HIM DOWN AND GETTING HIM RELEASED SINCE THEY KNEW HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN SENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

    Because he’s not white.

    They believe America is the home for white people. Simple as that.

  17. 17.

    PaulWartenberg

    I’m starting to wonder if Abrego Garcia is still alive. What a Kafkaesque nightmare.

    This is starting to be the most likely scenario. If Garcia was still in custody in at least one piece, the trumpsters would – you’d think – let him go as just one person among thousands they’ve also illegally detained and shipped overseas, in order to placate the growing outrage from the judge(s). The other possibility is that – and the idiocy of this wouldn’t surprise me – they legitimately lost track of where he is and dare not reveal their incompetency to the judge like this.

    The hopeful alternative is that the trumpsters are worried if they let this one innocent person, they gotta let go of all the other innocent ones they’ve shipped off, and they hate the optics of that (makes them look both idiotic and weak). So he’s still alive

  19. 19.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    It’s in keeping with these people’s incompetence that they simply don’t know were Abrego Garcia is.  They really don’t like things be documented, as we saw with that Signal Call scandal.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    @Steve LaBonne:

    Not everyone could have accomplished that but Trump is special.

    “The country came to me — big, strong country — with tears in its eyes and said ‘Sir, THANK YOU for wrecking our Economy! We agree that things were TOO easy under the Terror Regime of Sleepy Joe Biden and the Biden Crime Family. Now we can return to the days of wondering where our next meal or paycheck will be coming from, and that will only make us stronger. Not as strong as YOU, sir — the strongest, smartestest man EVER, of course.’ This shows that the Country wants me to do this, so suck on it, libtards!”​

  22. 22.

    scav

    @Old Man Shadow: Be fair, the wrong kind of white people also get rolled over if they want their deference properly and universally respected. Ain’t nuthin more important than their due deference.

  23. 23.

    Mr. Mack

    Not one to derail open threads (I know they are meant to be derailed, but I’m always irked when a discussion I’m into gets sidetracked) but I’m curious if other Jackals out there read “The Week”?  It’s pricey but man what a pleasure to read, no annoying ads, and they do a good job boiling stuff down and making it readable.

  24. 24.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @SFAW:

    Why do you hate America?

    Because its electorate chose Trump not once (could be construed an error in judgment) but twice (misogyny and racism overwhelming any sense of common good, self-interest and self-preservation).

    And Ronald Reagan.

  25. 25.

    catfishncod

    @WaterGirl: I gotcha. Behold 42 USC 1989:

    Said magistrate judges are empowered, within their respective counties, to appoint, in writing, under their hands, one or more suitable persons, from time to time, who shall execute all such warrants or other process as the magistrate judges may issue in the lawful performance of their duties, and the persons so appointed shall have authority to summon and call to their aid the bystanders or posse comitatus of the proper county, or such portion of the land or naval forces of the United States, or of the militia, as may be necessary to the performance of the duty with which they are charged; and such warrants shall run and be executed anywhere in the State or Territory within which they are issued.

    In other words, a magistrate judge in an appropriate jurisdiction has the authority to appoint their own marshal(s) who in turn not only have the deputization powers of posse comitatus, but have explicit permission to bypass the Posse Comitatus Act and summon the armed forces to assist in enforcing judicial authority.

    I have been terribly relieved ever since I found this on the books — but we need to make sure it can be operationalized.

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    @Kristine:

    The first one to jump in the muck would make it easier for others to follow, but it takes a lot to decide to be that first one.

    Alternatively, all of them can jump in the muck togehter, which protects all of them.  The Senate doesn’t seem to have figured that out yet.

    I am tired of Chuck Schumer’s mentality, which is to express gratitude and declare victory on the rare occasions that Trump isn’t currently beating them with a board with the pointy side of the nails coming out the side that’s beating them.

    “Look at this one tiny thing he’s done to un-fuck .01% the thing he fucked up last week!”

    Victory!

  27. 27.

    Eolirin

    @PaulWartenberg: He’s supposed to be in an El Salvadorian prison that the US doesn’t control. They’re going to need the El Salvadorians to send him back because they can’t go get him. And the El Salvadorians can say no.

    This is a large part of why this whole thing is a terrible idea, even putting aside the conditions in there.

  29. 29.

    Scout211

    Finally, a Trump policy I can get behind.

    President Donald Trumpcalled Friday for Congress to adopt permanent daylight saving time — meaning there would be more daylight in the evening hours and most Americans would no longer have to change their clocks twice a year.

    He’s weighing in as Congress is also starting to debate the issue, including in a hearing convened Thursday by the Senate Commerce Committee.

    And I’m sure he will be successful because no one has ever tried to do this before.  It’s such a beautiful thing, people came to him with tears in their eyes and said, “Sir, can you give us more light in the day?” And he said he alone could do this, he will fix the amount of light in the day.

    Added:  ugh.

  30. 30.

    Steve in the ATL

    “Slurring yam”?  That’s excellent.

    With Betty Cracker’s wit and creativity, no one is unputdownable!

    #callback

  34. 34.

    piratedan

    kind of makes you wonder how exactly the same amount of effort that was used in identifying Mr Garcia and deporting him illegally, without so much as due process, is being used to find him and return him.

    Kind of telling when the main argument from the WH and the Administration appears to be “don’t you know who we are?” as if they were some backbench state legislator being pulled over by the county cops while driving as DUI and expect to be let off the hook.

  35. 35.

    Scout211

    @me: I’m also team permanent DST but changing this has been tried so many times in the past and it has never passed, for exactly the reason you cited.  Only 50% of voters would be happy with it.

  36. 36.

    trollhattan

    Slow coup nevertheless still coup.

    The head of the US military base in Greenland has been fired after she reportedly sent an email distancing herself from Vice-President JD Vance’s criticism of Denmark.
    The US military’s Space Operations Command said Col Susannah Meyers had been removed from her role at Pituffik Space Base due to a “loss of confidence in her ability to lead”.
    Last month, Vance said Denmark had “not done a good job” for Greenlanders and had not spent enough on security while visiting the Danish territory.
    The alleged email, released by a military news site, told staff Vance’s comments were “not reflective” of the base. A Pentagon spokesman cited the article, saying “undermining” US leadership was not tolerated.

    How long before the only generals left have each signed a loyalty oath to Trump?

  37. 37.

    Kelly

    We’re all in the blast radius, and it sucks that those of us who didn’t vote for the slurring yam have to suffer damage because of other people’s idiotic choices.

    I did not FA yet I must FO anyway

  38. 38.

    oldgold

    “I’m starting to wonder if Abrego Garcia is still alive.”

    Or, if he is has been injured.

    Otherwise, why hasn’t Trump asked  President Nayib Bukele to return Abrego Garcia and put a spike in this ongoing bad news story for his administration.

    Something is amiss here.

  43. 43.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Reading between the lines, I get the sense that the Trump gang is desperately looking to Xi to provide an off ramp:

    Trump is waiting for Xi to call. The Chinese see it differently
    By Kylie Atwood, Kayla Tausche, Kevin Liptak, Jeremy Herb and Alayna Treene, CNN
    10 minute read
    Updated 9:03 AM EDT, Fri April 11, 2025

    CNN — A tariff reprieve from President Donald Trump sent global markets soaring on Wednesday, with the White House saying it’s been in touch with dozens of countries about striking deals, lining up calls and meetings in the coming weeks.

    But one country was conspicuously absent from any outreach: China

    As the rest of the world received a 90-day respite, Trump escalated tariffs on China, saying the US will now charge an extra 145% on all Chinese goods that arrive in the US. In response, Beijing ratcheted up its own tariffs on American goods Friday to 125%, and the country’s leader — who Trump is urgently working to engage — warned China was “not afraid” of a prolonged trade conflict.

    In private discussions hours before China announced new retaliatory tariffs, the Trump administration warned Chinese officials against such a move, according to a source familiar with the discussions.

    The Chinese were also told – once again – that Chinese President Xi Jinping should request a call with US President Donald Trump.

    Instead, US officials woke up to news of increased Chinese tariffs and no request for a leader level call. Xi also made comments that only dug him in further.
    …

  45. 45.

    Baud

    Readership capture

    MAGA Beekeeper Admits Trump Tariffs Have Cost Him Half His Business – “I never thought I was going to lose this much money this fast,” the beekeeper told CNN.

  47. 47.

    ExPatExDem

    After seeing what happened with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, Mahmoud Khalil, et al.  I think the time may soon be coming that people are going to stop going peacefully and quietly when ICE shows up.

  48. 48.

    rikyrah

    Time to holding whomever the DOJ sends over there for contempt of court, and throw them in jail.

    Call a hearing everyday. And, everyday that he isn’t back, throw that DOJ person in jail.

  49. 49.

    Old Man Shadow

    @trollhattan: Sigh, the kids these days…

    Look you can say your boss is a fucking dumbass out of his earshot… you can THINK your boss is a fucking dumbass, but you don’t write that your boss is a fucking dumbass.

  51. 51.

    Old Man Shadow

    @YY_Sima Qian: The Chinese were also told – once again – that Chinese President Xi Jinping should request a call with US President Donald Trump.

    “Come on, Baby… yes, I punched you in the face, but if you’d just apologize for making me angry in the first place, we could get back together!”

  52. 52.

    Eolirin

    @WaterGirl: Except, as it turns out, Schumer made the right call on the CR. It wasn’t handled as well as it should have been, but it was correct on the merits. We would not be seeing catering support for Trump right now if we had gone into a shutdown. Making it harder for congressional Republicans to undo tariffs also didn’t work in the Republicans’ favor, as it turns out.

    I don’t think Schumer having a different tone is going to help us. I don’t think his current tone hurts us. And I don’t expect congressional leadership to be a rallying point for opposition, because it makes their actual job harder, and that job, even if it’s greatly reduced in ability at the moment, still matters. Schumer got the CR through in a way that minimized the potential damage to his caucus. He’s pulled all of the heat from that onto himself. It’s pretty clear now that it also needed to happen. It is unambiguously the better of the two options the Republicans presented given the way things played out.

    That’s what a minority leader is supposed to do.

  53. 53.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @trollhattan:

    When the Clinton’s fired the travel office staff, there were investigations by the FBI, the DOJ, the GAO, Congress, and Ken Starr’s Scandal Circus. The NYT breathlessly reported every negative rumor. The investigations lasted until 1998, when the whole thing turned into Lewinksy.

    Just thought I’d bring that up for contrast.

  55. 55.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WaterGirl:

    I read last week that judges have the ability to send someone to do that.  US Marshalls not required.

    I don’t have the details, but I read it multiple places.

    Alternatively, the judge could issue an order that nobody else gets involuntarily flown out of the country until Abrego Garcia is back. And anyone playing a part in violating that order will be held to be in contempt of court.

  56. 56.

    karen gail

    I was going to link to the Jim Wright piece telling us that Trump is an successful businessman; since he has gotten richer while destroying own businesses. That is the model now, one doesn’t lose own money one loses investors money or banks money.

    But I can no longer find that piece, crap, just read it and then updated page now gone.

  57. 57.

    lowtechcyclist

    @They Call Me Noni:

    During Trump 1.0 they separated kids from their parents that still have not been reunited so this is just his MO.

    And I still would like to know why Stephen Miller wasn’t tried and convicted of a few thousand counts of child abuse, and isn’t serving a thousand-year prison term as a result.

  59. 59.

    YY_Sima Qian

    The attempt to arrive at a Sino-EU rapprochement will not be smooth sailing, but attempt to sail they will, MAGA is a powerful forcing function:

    Finbarr Bermingham@fbermingham.bsky.social‬

    New from me:
    As the US and China wage superpower trade war, the EU senses more leverage over Beijing
    scmp.com/news/china/d...

    When French Foreign Minister Jean-Noel Barrot went to Beijing last month, he gave his Chinese counterparts an ultimatum: do something about hefty tariffs on cognac imports and the liquor’s abrupt removal from your duty-free stores, or our entire “strategic agenda” will be paused.

    France and China maintain a positive agenda, despite the many problems in Europe’s ties with Beijing.
    And with French President Emmanuel Macron planning to travel to China in the second half of this year for another summit with his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping, the stakes were high.

    In Paris, Beijing is seen to have blinked
    China paused permanent duties on brandy until July, even though provisional tariffs of up to 39% will continue to be collected. Beijing also pledged to return cognac to the shelves of airport duty-free shops, a huge market for French producers

    It was a minor victory, but one that European policymakers are studying closely.
    With China and the US engaging in a brutal tit-for-tat trade war, Europe is starting to sense that it has a stronger hand in dealing with China, according to several official sources.

    “I think we have more leverage than we’ve ever had, because China is the only one targeted. We’re not targeted any more,” said Agatha Kratz, a partner at Rhodium Group, referring to US President Donald Trump’s so-called “reciprocal tariffs”.
    The EU was given a reduced US tariff rate on Wednesday.

    The EU hopes to use this leverage to get China to do something about persistent industrial overcapacity, which was high on every agenda during a recent flurry of diplomacy
    It was discussed when trade chief Sefcovic went to China last month + when he talked by video call with Wang Wentao on Weds

    It was top of European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen’s priorities when she spoke with Premier Li Qiang on Tuesday, and will be of major importance to von der Leyen and European Council President Antonio Costa when they plan to go to Beijing in July.

    Astronomical tariffs between the US and China are seen as an effective trade decoupling, meaning Chinese goods bound for America will now need to find new markets
    EU fears it will be flooded with cut-price Chinese imports looking for a home + has vowed to take measures to stop this from happening

    “We are prepared to use every tool in our trade defence arsenal to protect the EU single market, EU producers, and EU consumers,” Sefcovic said on Monday.
    The bloc was already under pressure from Chinese overcapacity, even before the predicted Trump-fuelled trend of trade diversion.

    “Collectively, the industries experiencing both rising imports from China and falling production in the EU account for 25 per cent of Europe’s manufacturing jobs,” stated a Rhodium Group note this week. rhg.com/research/if-…

    The immediate tools at the EU’s disposal include safeguards, anti-dumping duties and anti-subsidy duties. Safeguard measures have already been used to put quotas on the amount of steel entering the EU, above which the metal would incur a tariff so high it would make no sense to import it.

    The mechanism is country-agnostic, per World Trade Organization rules, but was implemented with China’s huge steel surplus in mind.
    It is thought that similar moves could be made for the automotive and chemical industries, where China is seen to produce far more goods than it can consume.

    Faced with reduced access to another of the world’s major consumer markets, the Europeans are hoping that Beijing will decide to make a deal.

    “This message on overcapacity was delivered before, but we felt it was not properly heard, they were not listening. Now, we have no other option but to take action, to use our tools to protect the EU market, at a time when they now need the EU market more,” said a senior European official.

    “We are telling them: we don’t want a trade war with you as well. But you need to do something. We see a bit of movement on brandy, so we would be fools not to try,” the official added.

    There are other signs that the message has started to register in Beijing.
    Sefcovic’s trip to the Chinese capital last month overlapped with Barrot’s, and the pair met in the margins to swap notes and ensure they were on the same page, according to officials familiar with the exchanges.

    On trade, both Paris +Brussels finally felt China was listening to their concerns. “They definitely made the right noises,” said one official
    On Li’s call with VDL, he again made all the right noises, without making any major concrete offers. The tone is different on both sides.

    On VDL call with Li, “the leaders discussed setting up a mechanism for tracking possible trade diversion and ensuring any developments are duly addressed,” said an EU readout
    China agreeing to such a mechanism would be a breakthrough in Brussels. A debate has kicked off on what it would look like

    Sefcovic said Monday the EU had been enhancing its import surveillance system to track real-time import flows, and the bloc would “set up a task force” for this purpose.
    This data could then be presented at regular intervals to Beijing, with a demand to take action to keep spillovers in check.

    Agatha Kratz at Rhodium noted capacity utilisation and inventory levels as leading indicators of overcapacity But would Beijing go for this?
    It would be “very intrusive… maybe it feels like an IMF Programme,” Kratz said.

    “But on the EU side, one of the demands would be: show me you’re doing the hard work, show me you’re closing off capacity, show me some of your companies are dying because they need to die,” she said.

    It would be a form of managed trade that would bump up against WTO rules, but one that seems less far-fetched in a world where major powers are sidestepping the rules with alarming frequency.
    Might Beijing go for this if it leave most of the EU market open?
    Many are sceptical

    But during negotiations on EV tariffs, the Chinese side has already offered to implement a quota, that would increase in line with rising demand in the EU market.
    So if EV demand goes up 10% per year, then so does the quota for Chinese cars.

    “The alternative is the EU putting safeguards on everything and making China do quotas against their will, rather than as an agreed, managed deal,” said Kratz.
    Let’s see where this is going, but very interesting times in the EU-China relationship.

    The EU’s approach might actually get the PRC to moderate some if its more disruptive trade & industrial policy practices.

  60. 60.

    Shakti

    I made sure my voter registration matches my Real ID and updated my mail ballot preferences. I told the worker at the desk about the SAVE Act and said if it passes you’d need your birth certificate to match your voting name. She had not heard of that and noted it would be a problem for married women. She said I’d get my updated registration in 10 days. I thanked her.

  61. 61.

    The Audacity of Krope

    it sucks that those of us who didn’t vote for the slurring yam have to suffer damage because of other people’s idiotic choices.

    My refusal to engage is virtually any form of financial services* is looking prescient.

    *I keep a checking and savings account so I can have a debit card

  65. 65.

    Another Scott

    @Eolirin: +1

    Guys who have been doing high-level national elected politics for 5 decades might have some idea of what they’re doing.

    Thanks.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  67. 67.

    rk

    @Old Man Shadow:

    Because he’s not white.

    They believe America is the home for white people. Simple as that.

    I think soon it’s going to be the home of only white christian republicans. White liberals are not going to be spared.

  68. 68.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Eolirin:

    Making it harder for congressional Republicans to undo tariffs also didn’t work in the Republicans’ favor, as it turns out.

    I disagree with this part.  If they could repeal the tariffs by majority vote and couldn’t be vetoed, they’d still not be repealing them, and there’d be no “oh dear, getting to votes to override Dear Leader’s veto would be impossible, so no point in trying” argument.  There’d be no way for them to argue their way out of culpability.

  71. 71.

    Fair Economist

    @YY_Sima Qian: Xi knows Trump has to cave. These tariffs would break American retail. Trump will come up wirh some lame excuse the American media will happily push, but the Chinese won’t be fooled and Xi will look like a hero.

  73. 73.

    WaterGirl

    @Eolirin:

    Absolutely. By definition, the US government should not be able to send anyone into a situation like that.  These are human beings, not things to be lost track of.

    This is a lot like selling people into slavery.  They can do whatever they want with them, with no consequences once they are “delivered”.

    It’s wrong, inhumane, and disgusting.

  74. 74.

    Shakti

    I may not have done the wise thing in the long run. But I’m just clinging to the idea that voting matters because if it didn’t they wouldn’t keep trying to stop it.

  76. 76.

    Mai Naem mobile

    This is anecdotal but the parking lot of a grocery store I go to was pretty empty last Friday. I also go to a strip center where there’s a Trader Joe’s. This parking lot is usually packed. The parking lot hasn’t seemed to be as busy recently.

  77. 77.

    rikyrah

    I sort of try to understand a lot.

    But, no. I don’t understand those 4 Democratic Muthaphuckas who voted for the SAVE Act.

    I don’t give two shyts about what kind of district they’re in.

    I will donate to any primary opponent against them.

    the SAVE Act is not only Voter Suppression on Steroids..

    IT’S A MUTHAPHUCKIN’ POLL TAX

  78. 78.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @rikyrah:

    @Old Man Shadow:

    The trouble for MAGA is that the PRC spent the past 8 years preparing for the contingency of a US driven trade & tech decoupling, all the while itself de-risking from the US as much as possible (often forced by the US sanctions & tech restrictions). At this point, Xi & the CPC leadership, & indeed most of the population, feel they can made do w/o direct trade w/ the US (& tolerate the associated pain). So Xi is in no hurry to engage w/ Trump. Not after Trump essentially imposed a trade embargo.

    Trump/Bessent can try the financial warfare lever, which is why delisting Chinese companies from the US exchanges are being floated. It’s an empty threat because all that will hurt are the international investors who bought the ADRs of these Chinese companies, which do not even confer any ownership rights. Mere rumors about delisting sent the shares of these Chinese companies (mostly in tech) traded in Hong Kong soaring. Any Chinese company that has only listed in the US will be scrambling to do secondary listings elsewhere: Hong Kong, Singapore, London, Frankfurt, Tokyo, etc.

    What’s left then is sanctions on using dollar finance, possibly even seizing the PRC’s sovereign reserves in US Treasury notes or US based assets. That would be WMD that Wall Street & the plutocrats will probably dissuade Trump from using. In any case, the PRC has built infrastructure that serve as alternatives to the Western controlled infrastructure, such as SWIFT, & is currently settling the majority of its trade using the Yuan or the counterparty’s currency, bypassing USD.

    The PRC took very seriously the noises about decoupling that emanated from the DC “Blob” over the past 8 years, & has prepared accordingly. The US has not done so.

  79. 79.

    WaterGirl

    @rikyrah: How about each day we throw them back in jail, plus another person one rung up the food chain.  And one more rung up the food chain the day after that

    There have to be consequences.

  80. 80.

    rikyrah

    Brian Allen (@allenanalysis) posted at 10:12 PM on Thu, Apr 10, 2025:
    Marjorie Taylor Greene walked into Congress worth $700K. Today? $22 million.

    She didn’t invent anything. She didn’t build a company. She didn’t launch a fund. She passed zero major legislation.

    But she did buy stocks before they bounced, cash in on tariff panic, and rake in donor dollars while yelling on TV.

    Oh—and she owns more than half of a construction company back home in Georgia.
    (x.com/allenanalysis/status/1910531419329220721?t=I0iZMCXHGSRmrJh0vOYEZQ&s=03)

  83. 83.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Fair Economist: There is an asymmetry of resolve, & escalatory wherewithal, in the ongoing Sino-US economic war:

    Trade Wars Are Easy to Lose
    Beijing Has Escalation Dominance in the U.S.-China Tariff Fight
    Adam S. Posen
    April 9, 2025

    In short, in a situation of cold turkey decoupling, the PRC has to deal w/ a short fall in demand, while the US a supply shock. The PRC can close the demand gap much more easily (via a large stimulus) than the US can solve the supply shock. The CPC regime had been advised to do the former by voices inside & outside of China for the past 2 years. It kept its powders dry, so now it has plenty of fiscal space to do so. Most of what the PRC imports from the US can & are being sourced from elsewhere, while much of what the US imports from the PRC are more difficult/more expensive to source from alternative suppliers, who generally do not have the capacity replace the volume of PRC supply any time soon.

    The US importers will have to look to pass through trade, tariff avoidance/evasion, & smuggling, in the short to medium term.

  84. 84.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WaterGirl:

    Absolutely. By definition, the US government should not be able to send anyone into a situation like that.  These are human beings, not things to be lost track of.

    This is a lot like selling people into slavery.  They can do whatever they want with them, with no consequences once they are “delivered”.

    It is pretty much exactly like that. I’m failing to come up with a meaningful distinction.

    It’s wrong, inhumane, and disgusting.

    It’s also human trafficking, AFAICT.  Maybe the AG of one of the states one of the Salvadoran captives was taken from could charge them under the laws of that state?

  85. 85.

    gene108

    @Old Man Shadow:

    They believe America is the home for white people. Simple as that.

    Straight white conservative Christians only. Everyone else is encouraged to leave.

  86. 86.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Fair Economist: Supposedly, great power competition w/ the US was Xi’s justification for scrapping the term limit to the CPC nomenklatura. Trump (& to a lesser extent Biden) is proving him prescient in the eyes of the Chinese, elites & population. I don’t hear people griping about Xi being leader for life in China, any more.

  87. 87.

    lowtechcyclist

    @rikyrah:

    I sort of try to understand a lot.

    But, no. I don’t understand those 4 Democratic Muthaphuckas who voted for the SAVE Act.

    I don’t give two shyts about what kind of district they’re in.

    I will donate to any primary opponent against them.

    the SAVE Act is not only Voter Suppression on Steroids..

    IT’S A MUTHAPHUCKIN’ POLL TAX

    This.

    Why any Dem would vote for this bill is beyond me.

    And the Senate Dems damn well better filibuster it.

  90. 90.

    Redshift

    @WaterGirl:

    WHY THE FUCK HAVE THEY NOT BEEN WORKING ON TRACKING HIM DOWN AND GETTING HIM RELEASED SINCE THEY KNEW HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN SENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

    They knew the rules say he shouldn’t have been sent in the first place. But according to their racism and the fact that he was an immigrant, he should have been sent and the immigration judge’s order was wrong, so they’re not going to do anything about it if they can possibly weasel out of it.

  91. 91.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Ohio Mom: I’m planning to be there for a mid-day kinda get together- it’ll take a couple of hours to get there but I can hit Mozart’s on the way back. ;)

  92. 92.

    Redshift

    @lowtechcyclist:

    And the Senate Dems damn well better filibuster it.

    Anyone with Dem senators should be calling them about this every day. And make it clear that it needs to be filibustered dead, no making a deal for some amendments. I use the phrase “existential threat” when I call.

  93. 93.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @YY_Sima Qian: Well, Trumpers are really stupid people.

    The world, especially China, is simply not going to bend the knee to this bullshit from these bullshitters.

  94. 94.

    cain

    If he is dead, then how many of the others sent there are also dead? How many have we sent to a death camp? The Dems and the press should be all over this.

    And where the fuck is Venezuela?? If i was them I would be hauling the U.S. ambassador into their office and fucking reading them the riot act. Hell, send a combat team and bring him back.

  95. 95.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Scout211: Even when he’s proposing something I agree with on the merits, it’s “we need a strongman to get this done”, a repellent attitude on process. I’m amazed he even called on Congress rather than trying to do it by executive order. But the Senate already passed a bill years ago (introduced by Rubio)

    And, yeah, the problem is that almost everyone hates the changeover but nobody can agree on permanent DST vs. no DST. I kind of like the idea of going to a 30-minute zone like India… but it’s ’cause the country I have to communicate with most often is India.

  97. 97.

    Peale

    @Redshift: What they want is a clear ruling that mistakes don’t have to be corrected so that they can do their mass deportation.  All they have to do is make 18 million mistakes and they’ll be able to say “all the criminal aliens have been removed” (as well as all the not criminal aliens.)

  98. 98.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @WaterGirl:It’s wrong, inhumane, and disgusting.

    But it’s very, very American.

    I can no longer stomach hearing “this is not who we are,” because it most certainly is.

  99. 99.

    Paul in KY

    @YY_Sima Qian: Boy o boy do they not understand the PRC leadership…

    There’s got to be someone telling them how it works. I think this is probably intentional (wanted Xi to call etc etc) and they know it won’t happen and think they can play that to their stupid MAGA base in a way that helps TFG.

  101. 101.

    Lobo

    At what point do we admit it is a dictatorship, a soft one, but one nevertheless.

    • Exec. Orders targeting specific individuals.
    • Kidnappings and renditions.
    • Removals for “expected” beliefs
    • Extortion to enforce compliance
    • Using SS to label immigrants “dead” to self-depart

    What else, before we admit where we really are?

  102. 102.

    WaterGirl

    @Eolirin: I didn’t say a thing about the CR.  But I don’t think comments like “the rule of law won today” in response to the awful-but-not-the-worst-it-could-have-been SC ruling yesterday, and whatever it was that Schumer said today that set me off are helpful.

  105. 105.

    Baud

    Stupid teleprompter

    Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon, praises the use of A.I. teaching in schools while repeatedly calling it A-One.

  107. 107.

    Dave

    @Professor Bigfoot: Yep they confuse can push around some countries for a little bit with being able to push around everyone it simply in their understanding of the world that they could ever be severe consequences for this.

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    @Professor Bigfoot:

    But it’s very, very American.

    I’ll fight you on that.

    It is the very worst of America, just like the Japanese internment camps.  But that shit, however awful, has been more of the exception than the rule.

  109. 109.

    MoCaAce

    @Ohio Mom:

    If the Y axis is some measure of my “expectations” of economic performance they are going to have to expand the lower bound by a LOT… like into negative territory.

  110. 110.

    lou

    @lowtechcyclist:

    And the Senate Dems damn well better filibuster it.

    ThisX1,000. This better make Cory’s filibuster look like a cakewalk.

  112. 112.

    gene108

    @Paul in KY:

    The thing that sticks out to me about Trump 2.0’s response to anything is to go into right-wing media attack mode. As if manipulating public opinion is the cure all for their fuck ups.

    It works great as the opposition but when in power the rhetoric and actions have consequences, which people eventually notice.

    Trump & Co. haven’t put more thought into their dealing with China than the next press release.

    I don’t know what’s going to happen.

    I am very confident an economic catastrophe won’t change most people’s voting habits over any meaningful time horizon.

  114. 114.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @WaterGirl: My dear friend, dare I remind you of the Enslavement, and Jim Crow?

    Or the very Confederate nature of our “conservative movement” that’s built on straight white Christian domination?

    This is VERY American.

  115. 115.

    me

    @cain: I think Maduro doesn’t give a shit about those people either.  If he did they’d be repatriated to Venezuela not El Salvador.

  117. 117.

    Jackie

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    It’s in keeping with these people’s incompetence that they simply don’t know where Abrego Garcia is.  They really don’t like things be documented as we saw with that Signal Call scandal.

    Also how many children are still missing from their parent(s) because Stephen Miller and then Attorney General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions didn’t want documentation of which children belonged to which parent(s) during the Child Separation horror?

  118. 118.

    WaterGirl

    @Professor Bigfoot: I will still say no.  As a country we have done some hideous things but we have also moved away from that, and until recently, many / most have viewed those things in horror.

    To say it’s VERY American ignores all the fights against those things.

  119. 119.

    Scout211

    I’m beginning the think RFKjr has no idea what he is doing.

    The Center for Disease Control  and Prevention has rejected a request from health officials in Milwaukee for help with a lead poisoning investigation, after Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. eliminated the agency’s response team.

    “I sincerely regret to inform you that due to the complete loss of our Lead Program, we will be unable to support you with this,” Aaron Bernstein, director of the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, told city officials April 3 in an email obtained by CBS News.

    Officials in Milwaukee and Wisconsin’s state health department had formally requested the CDC’s help on March 26, after many of the city’s schools were found to have “significant lead hazards” exposing children. Federal experts were asked to help develop a strategy to test and triage Milwaukee public school students for lead poisoning, as well as help with outreach to the community.

    “This only underscores the importance of the role local public health plays in protecting communities – and the challenges we now face without federal expertise to call on,” Caroline Reinwald, a spokesperson for the City of Milwaukee Health Department, said in a statement to CBS News on Thursday.

    Children exposed to lead can face serious harm to their brain and nervous system, including slowing their development and causing problems with their hearing and speech.

  120. 120.

    Jay

    @cain:

    The whole reason they were sent to the slave prison in El Salvador, is that Venezuela will not take deportee’s back.

    Gang members or not gang members, they have been “contaminated” by the West.

  122. 122.

    Redshift

    @me:

    I think Maduro doesn’t give a shit about those people either. If he did they’d be repatriated to Venezuela not El Salvador.

    I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Refusing to take people the Trumpers are deporting with no process and frequently no legal grounds is a way of resisting. Neither the US nor El Salvador currently has the capacity for “mass deportations” if the home countries won’t cooperate.

  123. 123.

    rikyrah

    This is so true. I definitely recognize this America.

     

    @WaterGirl:It’s wrong, inhumane, and disgusting.

    But it’s very, very American.

    I can no longer stomach hearing “this is not who we are,” because it most certainly is.

  125. 125.

    rikyrah

    scary lawyerguy (@scarylawyerguy) posted at 0:56 PM on Thu, Apr 10, 2025:
    The media demanded 100 page white paper level policy proposals from Kamala Harris but Trump doesn’t even know the amount of tariff tax he is levying against (checks notes) our biggest trading partner, and it’s crickets. Don’t get me started on how Joe Biden would be portrayed  t.co/IDkbp1KQ4q
    (https://x.com/scarylawyerguy/status/1910391575089193445?t=Dq_LJTHTKqI9Pd0uscKYPg&s=03)

  127. 127.

    rikyrah

    BWA HA HA AH AH HA HA HA HA HA HA

    Mario 🇺🇸🇵🇱🇺🇦🇪🇺 (@PawlowskiMario) posted at 11:17 PM on Thu, Apr 10, 2025:
    This is HUGE😳

    BREAKING🇨🇳: Tesla suspends taking orders for Model S and Model X in China

    → Tesla is probably DONE in China.

    This isn’t about “demand adjustments” or “supply chain.” This is China quietly killing off Tesla without saying it out loud.

    Why?
    1.China is protecting BYD and its EV industry.
    2.Tesla became a Western pawn in a trade war.
    3.Chinese buyers don’t trust instability – tariffs, Trump, Elon’s chaos — it’s poison in their market.
    4.And this → European Union cutting tariffs on Chinese EVs? China doesn’t need Tesla anymore.

    → Tesla’s future = Europe squeezed by Mercedes, BMW EVs.
    → China = dominated by BYD and local brands.
    → U.S. = hostile market with trade war uncertainty.

    Musk played both sides for too long. China just reminded him — they control the board, not him.
    (https://x.com/PawlowskiMario/status/1910547762774520125?t=r-RpcrS-p1GaD48W–I79Q&s=03)

  129. 129.

    Peale

    @rikyrah: And a note to everyone in Greenland who might think “groovy”, your check is going to be paid out once then never again.

  130. 130.

    Peale

    @Scout211: I’m not going to be surprised if the “true cause of autism” in September is going to be vaccines, the removal of lead paint from the market, and fluoride. I mean, we really do as a society hate old people and children.

  133. 133.

    Jay

    The Social Security Administration this week began to classify thousands of immigrants with temporary legal status and Social Security numbers as dead, according to three sources familiar with the situation.

    The move essentially cancels an immigrant’s Social Security number and is equivalent to a financial death, as financial institutions rely on updated Social Security data to verify identities and deaths and may cut off access for these individuals.

    […] The SSA is classifying immigrants as dead with false dates, multiple sources said. This would essentially invalidate their Social Security number and access to government benefits. The agency wrote in March that an “erroneously reported” death will stop benefits, can cause “financial hardship” and is “long and challenging” to fix.

    The first group to be added to the “ineligible master file” was a group of over 6,000 immigrants who came into the country through former President Joe Biden’s parole program, according to two sources. This detail was first reported by The Washington Post.

    The White House said the move was done to encourage these immigrants, who had a “monetary incentive” to come in via the parole system, to “self-deport.”

    mockpaperscissors.com/2025/04/11/heres-a-warning-to-us-all/

  134. 134.

    Bupalos

    @YY_Sima Qian: I think a lot of global players and most especially the Chinese understand that decoupling from China and ultimately trying to divide the world into a bipolar trading system is a seriously intended policy.

    Anyway, China seems to be acting like it. It seems to me fighting that is pretty difficult and there are a lot of pitfalls for them to think through.

  137. 137.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @WaterGirl: I must disagree.

    I believe too many Americans are unwilling to actually grapple with this nation’s history of genocide, Enslavment, Jim Crow, the Japanese Internment.

    What you speak of is the nobler part of America; but that nobler part came LONG after that more murderous part made it’s appearance.

    That fight is noble, but it does not change the fundamental nature of the system, and the ongoing unwillingness to address and “grapple with” (in Ta-Nehisi Coates’ vernacular) with America’s REAL history of awfulness and how it currently manifests most loudly in today’s MAGA is a large part of why we are where we are.

    It starts with really sitting with “all men are created equal— except those people over there, we have every right to use them, rape them, work them to death, torture them, kill them if we damned well please.”

  138. 138.

    Jackie

    @me:  Re permanent DL Time

    @Scout211: ​
    I’d be okay with this but half the population wants it the other way.

    Half the population got the president they wanted, so it’s time for the other half to get what they want! //

    Kidding!!! I love DL Saving time, but it’s probably 50/50 for and against it on this very blog!

  139. 139.

    brantl

    @WaterGirl: Alternatively, all of them can jump in the muck togehter, which protects all of them.  The Senate doesn’t seem to have figured that out yet.

     

    It doesn’t, it just makes them wonder which one to shoot first.

  140. 140.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @WaterGirl: I’m sorry, but this is exactly the reaction I would expect from someone unwilling to grapple with America’s REAL history.

    1772: The King’s Bench says there can be no slaves in England (Stewart v Somerset)

    1774: Dr. Johnson writes, “How is it we hear the loudest yelps of liberty from the drivers of negroes(slaves)?”

    1776: English colonists, wealthy in slaves, declare independence from England.

  147. 147.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Steve LaBonne: It seems so bloody obvious, but…

    This is blatant market manipulation, but some people seem to avoid any repercussions for illegal actions.

  148. 148.

    Bupalos

    @rikyrah: This isn’t a very good read on the situation. Tesla suspended those models because they are made in the US and would be subject to the blanket tariffs on all US goods that China retaliated with. The vast majority of Tesla’s Chinese sales come from units produced in China.

    China isn’t targeting Tesla specifically.

  150. 150.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @sab: It’s not something American education would want to be loud about. How many people only learned about the Tulsa Massacre because of a comic book?

    The thing is that this is central to the American enterprise, and the fact that it’s been fought against does not negate that centrality.

  154. 154.

    WaterGirl

    @Professor Bigfoot: You are describing the worst parts of America.  I am not willing to say that the worst parts of America ARE America.

    To me, America is about fighting against the worst parts of our history. Of being better than those worst parts.

    What you are describing is the worst parts of our history.  I am not willing to say that what you are describing is what America STANDS FOR.

    I believe in the goal of America.  Life liberty the pursuit of happiness.  Human rights.

    I am not willing to use your words.  That does not mean that I don’t recognize the ugliness that’s in our past.  And the ugliness of the new world order FFOTUS is using to destroy America.

  158. 158.

    Bupalos

    @Professor Bigfoot: Maybe I could suggest a middle ground. America was in fact founded on ideas of liberty and equality while in practical reality built on the back of slaves and slavery as an economic interest. As well as subjugation and exclusion of women and the disposesed. While it has an ample 200 year history of slavery and apartheid and economic exploitation of the underclass, that history is also one of deliberate and often painful and bloody movement towards its ideals. What is different and “UnAmerican” about this moment is the way we seem to have clearly and deliberately begun choosing to move in the direction of inequality. The size and duration of this movement starts to look pretty unique. Interestingly the movement itself isn’t (yet) centered on ethnicity in terms of its effects. The gap between white Americans and non-white Americans continues to get smaller, while the overall gap between the few and the many is exploding.

    Also Johnson’s quote is kinda rubbish. England basically invented new-world slavery, ran much of its foreign empire on slavery and apartheid, and at the state level was nowhere near looking to push it out of the colonies. If the intimation there is that America declared independence to save slavery, I think that’s really very hard to support historically. Johnson was just trash-talking with whatever was to hand.

  159. 159.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Professor Bigfoot: well actually it’s “n’est ce pas” but in your defense they are pronounced the same because the French swallow the “ce” like it’s a buttered snail

  160. 160.

    Paul in KY

    @rikyrah: I would say that anyone in China purchasing a Tesla and driving said Tesla in public would just be creating negatives for the Party and the Cadres to draw conclusions about said Tesla owner.

    These would not be positive conclusions for the owner/driver.

    Can probably buy one over there right now for a bargain price.

  164. 164.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @WaterGirl: We don’t talk about Nazi Germany’s architecture, fashion, technology as being their best parts because their worst parts grossly overruled them.

    But again, if y’all aren’t willing to acknowledge the centrality of white supremacy in American history, well, it’s no more than I really expect. Thank you for the discussion.

  165. 165.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Bupalos: How in the world do you square that circle?

    You start with these high ideals of everyone being equal but you’re led and controlled by SLAVERS.

    ”I don’t believe what you say because I see what you do.”

  167. 167.

    karen gail

    @Professor Bigfoot:  Or how many know about Seneca Village? long before Central Park was a park.

    Have no idea of when I first learned that Seneca Village even existed. There are at least five other Black Communities that were destroyed along with ten other known large massacres.

  168. 168.

    karen gail

    @WaterGirl: Yes, he is talking about the worst parts of this country; but those are its foundation. We rarely acknowledge the civilization that existed for thousands of years before European’s decided they had to have the land in the Americas as well as all the mineral wealth.

    I have nothing against believing a goal as long as it doesn’t blind us to what came before. As long as we lose sight of the horrors that were unleashed on Native Tribes and then the ugliness of slavery we are ignoring a real part of history.

    The German people keep a spotlight on the evils the Nazis did as a way of reminding themselves what they did as a nation and strive to overcome those things. That is why concentration camps are part of the landscape, to remind people of how far they can fall into horrors and evil. In the US we don’t have those visible reminders to teach and learn from. If we did we all would be better off; but history is written by the “victors” and not the victims.

  169. 169.

    Ohio Mom

    @Jay: All our immigrants, documented and not, have helped to shore up Social Security. The documented have paid in, but only a relatively few, in very specific circumstances, were ever able to receive benefits. Now they won’t.

    Undocumented immigrants, working under false Social Security numbers, pay in a lot — (from NYT) “This group paid an estimated $25.7 billion in Social Security taxes in 2022.” Needless to say, they will never collect any benefits on their payments in. And now, going forward, we will have many fewer undocumented paying in.

    Please note, I’m not saying it’s good that we rip immigrants of all kinds off, just looking at this from the angle of keeping Social Security funded. We should find a better way, like raising the cap.

    In the end, infuriatingly, another win-win for Republicans. Hurts immigrants AND hastens the day Social Security’s funding crashes. You gotta give ‘em credit for being evil genuises.

  170. 170.

    George

    @WaterGirl: ​
     Thank you. The commenter on whom you comment is one reason I visit this blog much less frequently than I used to. That particular commenter gets off on criticizing the country and various demographics, and has been doing so for months, without offering much in the way of a workable strategy for moving forward. Perhaps I am the only reader to which this applies, but that sort of incessant negativity and misguided criticism smells more than a little like trollism.

  171. 171.

    Steve LaBonne

    @George: De gustibus. I find that commenter one of the most informative and honest here, precisely because he refuses to pander to white fragility. We need more honesty about this country and its history, not less, or we will never get out of the shit we’re in.

  172. 172.

    Steve LaBonne

    @karen gail: Exactly. Genocide, theft and enslavement are not the “worst” of America, they are its foundation stones, and in many ways we have made discouragingly little effort to make restitution and do better. We cannot move forward by continuing to pretend otherwise. We will keep ending up right back where we are now, if we even escape it at all this time.

  174. 174.

    billcoop4

    @Steve LaBonne: @George: De gustibus. I find that commenter one of the most informative and honest here, precisely because he refuses to pander to white fragility. We need more honesty about this country and its history, not less, or we will never get out of the shit we’re in.

    V’imru omayn.

     

    BC

  176. 176.

    Matt McIrvin

    @WaterGirl: There’s descriptive American-ness, and there’s normative American-ness.

    From where I stand, descriptively, the awful stuff has been more the rule than the exception. But whenever we got a little better or accomplished something truly great, the normative ideals, the lofty stuff the Founders said and not what they did, were in there; they were always part of it.

    That’s how I thread that needle. I don’t want to give up on the US’s liberal Enlightenment ideals because it’s the only thing that ever worked here. But we have to acknowledge the ugly in order to do better, and it helps to know its antecedents.

  177. 177.

    karen gail

    One part of US history that we give sideways credit to is the Iroquois Nations or Confederacy; there is no way of knowing just when it was first formed earliest estimates are somewhere in the 1100’s and as late as 1600’s. Some of the “founding fathers” credited them with the ideas they used and the Suffrage movement also used the Iroquois as an example. All adults were considered equal, all had a voice; this was truly all are created equal.

    Yet, those founders cherry picked what they wanted; rather than use something that had worked for generations they decided what they liked and what they wanted to keep. The part I liked best was that the council of Grandmothers had a deciding vote if a tribe was going to war; it wasn’t left up to hot headed testosterone laden males.

    Yet, the same people from whom ideas were stolen about forming a government were considered “Merciless Indian Savages;” these were men who owned slaves, who treated people like animals. This is part of the foundation of this country.

  178. 178.

    MisterForkbeard

    @me: “People who are known liars and have been visibly wrong throughout the entire meltdown say that the country they’ve been demonizing non-stop really wants to play nice and make a deal with us that we won’t stick to. Please believe us.”

  179. 179.

    Matt McIrvin

    @George: He’s more right than wrong.

    He often assumes that other people don’t know or refuse to acknowledge the things he’s saying, but the reactions he gets indicate that that’s often right too.

  182. 182.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @dnfree: This.

    It gives me no pleasure to say these things, because I really believe in that high-flown rhetoric ol’ Massa Jefferson penned– but I am not blind to the reality of what life is like and has always been like for everyone who was not a straight white Christian man.

  183. 183.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @George: Well, first, it’s a shame you’ve gotta be passive aggressive when discussing me.

    But more than that, why the fuck do you expect Black people to come up with solutions to things that ONLY WHITE PEOPLE CAN CONTROL?

    You’re so desperate to defend your whiteness that you’d happily trade away your humanity.

  184. 184.

    dnfree

    @WaterGirl: I just finished reading the recent biography of MLK by Eig.  (It’s called simply “King”).  By the time I got to the end I was heartbroken all over again, and discouraged.  What I saw for most of my life as progress actually ended prematurely, like Reconstruction, because white people as a group lost interest and focus.

    When I first heard about the Japanese internment in World War II, I was confident we would never see anytime that again, yet here we are.  I was confident we would never have another stupid war like Vietnam, but then we invaded Iraq.

    We should know better and do better by now, but evidently not enough of us do.

  185. 185.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Bupalos: All indications are Trump’s attempt to isolate the PRC will just isolate the U.S. The PRC will make the concessions, & issue subtle reminders of its dominant to nearly monopolistic positions in critical parts of the supply chain, to prevent the EU, Japan, South Korea, India from joining the U.S. In any case, MAGA has made it crystal clear to these countries that relying solely upon the U.S. is a nonstarter. If they help MAGA kneecap the PRC, they will be stuck being dominated by MAGA for a generation.

  186. 186.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Paul in KY: Tesla has not been demonized in the PRC, yet. It has simply been slipping behind the domestic competition. Models S & X have not been refreshed in years. Yet, w/o some premium “halo” models, Tesla will be stuck w/ mid priced offerings (Models 3 & Y) in the PRC market, & lose the desirability factor.

    Tesla will not win a price war in the PRC against the local competition, even w/ manufacturing in the PRC. It had tried that in 2023. BYD specifically is more vertically integrated, has larger economy of scale, thus lower cost structure.

  187. 187.

    Ruckus

    @PaulWartenberg:

    makes them look both idiotic and weak

    Well they are both. And of course they are weak because they are dumb as a fence post. OK maybe not that smart……

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