I watched the debate and in many ways I was pleased by the tone. No bullshit about “fuzzy math” and “wanna buy some timber”. Romney’s not the dry drunk moron that W was and good on him for that.
I do wonder what purpose Jim Lehrer serves at these things. He serves up non-questions and lets the candidates blab for hours about whatever they want.
While much of the initial criticism of Lehrer’s performance has focused on his failure to assert control over the proceedings, Lehrer’s vague and imprecise questions of the candidates — and weak follow-ups — contributed to his spongy moderation. Press critics TPM talked to Thursday morning dismissed Lehrer’s questions as “soft,” “dull” and “open-ended.”
“He seemed to think that ‘discuss the differences between the two of you’ is a debate question. It’s really not. It’s a ‘your turn to talk’ invitation,” Jay Rosen, director of the Studio 20 program at NYU, told TPM.
I know local people who moderate debates (people running for Congress, mayor, etc.) and they’d never let themselves get walked all over the way Jim Lehrer does.
There’s too much deference to power in the national media, and it kills the entire value of the enterprise.
moron
Last night the President disgraced himself beyond redemption — not on style or debating atmospherics, but on substance, with this: fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2012/10/04/obamas-second-term-goal-cut-social-security/
Warren Terra
It’s not fair to accuse Lehrer of “asking non-questions”. He did ask at least one question: he asked about regulation. He asked Romney whether he wasn’t really a nice moderate many who was comfortable with some regulation, and asked Obama whether he wasn’t really a totalitarian monster who opposed the free market. It was one of the most absurd things I’ve ever seen from a debate moderator.
Villago Delenda Est
Lehrer was worse than useless last night. Typical Villager vermin, unable to control the debate, unable to ask follow up questions, obviously unprepared to challenge either candidate.
Utterly worthless Villager slime. Pierce could have done a better job of moderating in a deep sleep than Lehrer did. Lehrer needs to change his name, too. He’s no fucking teacher, that’s for damn sure.
schrodinger's cat
@Villago Delenda Est: His replacement at the Snooze Hour is not much better either. Gwen Ifill is one the most insipid interviewers on TV.
Chyron HR
@moron:
Yes, we’re familiar with the Firebagger credo, thanks.
chopper
i’m still trying to figure out the best metaphor for romney’s transformation. firmware upgrade? lizard shedding its skin? he went and pupated when noone was looking?
Cassidy
And this won’t end well. 300+ comments?
PeakVT
Apart from Lehrer, I think a tighter format would be better for the first debate.
Short Bus Bully
The inbreeding of the Village is reaching it’s natural genetic limit, we’re starting to see retardation on the level of “Dueling Banjos”…
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Villago Delenda Est:
At least 5 times during the debate I was left to wonder who the actual moderator was, Lehrer or Romney.
Villago Delenda Est
@chopper:
When the moderator is a total wussy, even OvenMitt can look half way decent, which is exceeding expectations for the tumbrel-ready sack of shit.
Spatula
Bingo.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chyron HR: Listen O-Bot, Barry Obummer should have responded to what Romney’s position on Social Security really is, not on what he’s campaigned on!
I’m sure Willard would love to go a privatization route, but he knows it’s poison. Even Ryan has learned not to say it out loud. I think this could have been a good time for Obama to say, “Well I hope that Gov Romney agrees with me that Social Security is a vital and necessary program….”, but that’s lazy-boy quarterbacking
ericblair
@chopper:
Context switch. Disk swap.
Violet
@chopper:
Doppelganger.
Edit: Or soap opera previously-unknown identical twin.
Villago Delenda Est
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yeah, but Ifill looks good on camera, woman of color, etc. Whether or not she has actual journalistic chops is unimportant.
Bring in ABL and you’ll have a woman of color who isn’t as bland as a vanilla pudding pop. I’d love to see her kick both candidates asses when they need to be kicked, and she’d do it.
Of course, she’d probably have to get in line behind Michelle, who I’m sure was less than delighted.
Rey
Lol!!! and with that I will log off the internets, continue the rest of my day, and only have HGTV on in the background.
ThresherK
@Spatula: To throw a Yahtzee! on top of your Bingo!, I’d suggest that (like so many things Beltway Inbred), “too much deference” is not granted to both sides.
IOKIYAR.
(Edit) Oh, and I’d let Jay Rosen moderate anytime.
Higgs Boson's Mate
I’ll start watching the debates again when something like this happens:
“President Obama, what has been the greatest obstacle to achieving your goals as president?”
“Governor Romney, name one specific piece of legislation which would be your first priority for passage if you’re elected president.”
butler
@moron: What, exactly, is the problem?
He said it was structurally sound but may require tweaks down the line to stay solvent long term. That’s reality.
chopper
@Violet:
naw, no goatee.
Maude
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Obama said to Romney that they pretty much agree on SS. That splits Mitt from Ryan. Nice move.
To add, Obama set Romney up so well, he didn’t know he was being set up. For the long term, not the evening.
wrb
@moron:
Truth in labeling is so refreshing
quannlace
It seemed if Romney just repeated the word ‘jobs’ 147 times, that counts as ‘specifics.’
Ben (the other one)
Jim Lehrer’s too nice a guy to interrupt. I’m thinking Lewis Black would be pretty much an ideal moderator.
Many past moderators really ought to be forever removed from the list: Gwen Ifill is a good example. Bob Schieffer, who will moderate on October 22, did a hatchet job on John Kerry in his 2004 debate with W – and of course Schieffer never disclosed that his brother was W’s business partner. Why the Obama campaign let him be selected is beyond me.
Villago Delenda Est
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
No one from the cesspool that is the Village will ask such questions.
They’re too direct, too “uncivil”, too hostile to the DC culture.
Villago Delenda Est. Over and over and over again. Burn it down, salt the earth, kill all the spawn, make sure it’s dead and stays dead. No prisoners, no quarter. The Village must be annihilated.
Napoleon
@butler:
And the tweek could be a tax increase.
Joey Giraud
Not bragging, but I’ve detested Jim Lehrer for years, at least as much as I love Tom Lehrer.
Jim Lehrer’s tedious imitation of journalistic integrity fools the pseudo-intellectual liberals, but in the end he’s just another villager.
mikefromArlington
Look, remember when McCain kinda cleaned Obama clock at Saddlebach church debate…a lot of good that did him.
What surprised me was Obama didn’t bring up the 47% once. That had to of been planned. I can only image he’ll hammer that one in at the next one or two debates.
I was hoping he’d close with that quote and explain it briefly and leave Romney standing there looking like a jerk. Here’s to hoping that still happens.
eemom
um, you detected an ABSENCE of bullshit?
Please. Romtron may not be a dry drunk but he fucking lied up one side and down the other, and I thought his true nature as a smug, venomous bully came across loud and clear.
butler
@Napoleon: God willing. Lift that earnings cap!
Dave
I think it also helped Romney that Lehrer gave both sides outlines of what he was going to ask. It’s easier to craft your bullshit when you know what bullshit you need.
How will Mitt fare in a town hall format?
PeakVT
@butler: The consternation is over the specifics of the tweak. Raise the cap – good. Change the inflation formula – bad. Raise the retirement age – bad, mostly for people who do physical labor. The middle-aged, upper-middle class people who set the terms of the debate tend to universally favor the last one, because they’re all healthy and have easy jobs that they could probably do into their early 70’s (though the extra experience won’t translate into more wisdom). I think Obama has said favorable things about that, but has also indicated opposition to change the formulas.
Tractarian
Jim Lehrer was fine. Keep in mind he was not hired to “moderate” a “debate”; he was hired to host a Presidential Debate. Big difference. The key being that, in a Presidential Debate, no matter how pointed and probing the questions, the candidates will find a way to swivel back to their canned talking points.
So the “moderator” might as well just point to one candidate and say “Economy. Go.” Which is essentially what Lehrer did last night.
Anton Sirius
@moron: You’re cute. Wanna cyber?
Mnemosyne
I know the white dude pundits and white dude commenters were all going nuts over Romney last night, but I think white dudes have a very poor perception of how that bullying, alpha male stuff goes over with women and minorities, as Lance Mannion astutely points out. (Hint: it doesn’t go over well.)
So it seems that Romney locked up the white male vote last night. Um, duh? Wasn’t he already way ahead with them? He needed to make inroads in Obama’s numbers with women, Latinos, and African-Americans, and he failed miserably at that.
There is such a thing as winning the battle and losing the war, and I think that’s what we have here.
eemom
@moron:
Yo Jane, long time no see! How’s life been treating you since you sank into well-deserved obscurity?
NonyNony
@butler:
Why are people responding to a fake troll? Not even a troll, but a fake troll that is quite likely mocking FDL?
“moron says ‘Obama is horrible – hey read this FDL link'”. That’s not even parody troll, that’s mockery.
Gindy51
@eemom: That’s the take I was hearing at the grocery store here in SE IN. Romney all bully, Obama all substance.
Joey Giraud
@Villago Delenda Est:
Good idea, but history shows that another one will soon grow in it’s place.
Empires have always had their Mandarins. Only a proper dictatorship can prevent their rise. Let’s not go there.
Mnemosyne
@moron:
So, is this the fifth or the sixth time that Obama is totally going to kill Social Security by X date, you guys just watch, I’m totally right this time? I’ve lost track now.
luc
I guess it is by design that the news-hour has to be boring, presented by extremely slow thinking journalists, and be broadcasted at an idiotic time (6 pm, at the west coast, at least, when nobody is watching) – all to make it as irrelevant as possible ???
wrb
@mikefromArlington:
My guess is they figured Romney had a carefully crafted response ready and 47%% is too valuable to risk.
Maude
@mikefromArlington:
Obama is talking about the 5 trillion that will stick it the middle class and explode the deficit.
He also remarked that he was glad someone finally got tough with Big Bird.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Anyone know what happened to the phrase “popular wartime president”? It seems to have gone missing back in January, 2008 and it hasn’t been heard since.
El Tiburon
Lehrer’s first question read like it was written by a buffoon:
I mean, you are moderating the Presidential debate and this is all you got?
Then when Obama opened up about his anniversary I knew it was over. Obama was painful to watch. He needs to pretend he is front of an all black audience or something and get real and stop being a mope head.
butler
@NonyNony: Ya, I realized my mistake too late. My bad.
Dave
@Mnemosyne: That’s an interesting point. The CNN coverage had that moving line thing again from 08. There was almost a constant divergence between the two lines. Men up and women down on Romney, the reverse for Obama.
El Tiburon
And let’s put all of this in context: when is it that people like Mitt shine? When they are able to lecture and talk down to their inferiors.
Last night Romney treated Obama like the long hair kid back that he held down back in high school and cut his hair off. And Obama lay there and took it.
WereBear
I found Romney to be very tough to listen to. His words simply did not parse; it was like listening to white noise.
I know this doesn’t bother the wingnut crowd, but if someone was trying to follow his arguments, they would get highly frustrated.
I found Romney’s manner very off-putting. This is the kind of behavior I expect from a salesman. Also, jerk. I understand a lot of other women agreed with me.
FWIW, I thought President Obama was acting the way I do when I don’t want to engage with an idiot but have to be in the same room.
Napoleon
@wrb:
Plus in states like here in Ohio they are running wall to wall ads about the comment. They simply don’t need to mention it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@wrb:
Never thought of that, good point.
TR
@wrb:
My assumption too. They’re hammering him with it on ads where he can’t respond. Why give him the chance when he clearly wants it?
danimal
Anybody here old enough to remember the Clinton SOTU speeches, which were universally considered terrible by the pundits until the polling came in and they were smashing successes with the lowly American voters? I’m kind of getting that vibe today.
japa21
Agreed on not bringing up the 47% comment. It is out there and is working against Romney. Bringing it up only gives Romney a chance, in front of everybody, to dissect it and not make it sound as bad as it really is. Don’t give him the opportunity to do that.
And if he feels the need to defend himself without it being brought up, then he shoots himself in the foot.
Mnemosyne
@PeakVT:
IIRC, the deficit commission’s plan was to raise the official retirement age, but make it easier for people who work manual labor to retire earlier than that with full benefits.
(This is, of course, different than the Bowles-Simpson PowerPoint presentation, which was pretty much, “Eat the poor, they’re delicious!”)
xian
@Napoleon: in fact, removing the cap on income would pretty much solve the whole deal
Corbin Dallas Multipass
Jim Lehrer was so bad on so many levels besides getting walked all over. He also asked non questions, wouldn’t reask questions when the candidates chose not to answer his actual questions, and failed to assert time restrictions.
What makes me sick, however, is the fact that he is paid a boat load of money and is given all this deferential respect himself while not doing his job at all.
Another fun exercise is comparing this:
denverpost.com/politics-national/2012/10/everything-jim-lehrer-said-at-the-debate/
to
twitter.com/SilentJimLehrer
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@chopper:
As I joked yesterday, they must have finally installed his Emotion Chip.
mikefromArlington
Then Obama should close the final debate with the 47% quote.
Meg
I disagree when people say Obama did not push back on Romney’s lies at all. Maybe not enough,but
A), it takes more time to debunk a lie than tell a lie. If your opponent fill his comments with lies, you need to decide if you want to spend your time stating your points or debunking the lies.(ironically, that was exactly what Romney said before the debate because OBAMA LIEZzz!)
B), Obama did try to point out some of the lies (pre-existing condition coverage and 5T cuts, to name just two), but Romney always bullied his way to say the last word. And people act like Obama did not say anything.
Calouste
Next time can we get that Australian newsreader that someone here posted a video of a few weeks back who totally skewered the leader of the opposition in Australia in an interview?
“Hey Mitt, you’re being a bit loose with the truth there mate.”
Just Some Fuckhead
@Spatula:
Is it me or do your comments seem smarter, more relevant and, frankly, better-looking?
El Cid
Apparently Jim Lehrer started using the same worshipful stash his PBS totebagger fans have been pushing for years on how he’s another god-king of journalistic amazingness.
catclub
@eemom: “I thought his true nature as a smug, venomous bully came across loud and clear.”
Careful, that is exactly what many US citizens hope that the US is on the world stage. Also what they respect in a leader.
Kittehs to the rescue
Lehrer is 78. According to articles, this was his 12th debate, so that means he’s been doing it since he was 34 (unless he’s done multiple debates in one year).
How about gramps gives up his seat and hands it over to the next generation, or perhaps even the generation after that, i.e. those currently in their mid-30s? He’s frikking 78 years old, does he really have nothing better to do than suck up to presidential candidates?
tone
Exactly right Meg, Rmoney managed to get at least 7 lies into each sentence he uttered, the Pres. would have had to spend 2 debates to debunk all of that BS, without every mentioning his own positions.
humbert dinglepencker
Why does anyone pay any attention to these farces? Debates? Try “debates.” These political ads masquerading as a debate bear as much relation to an honest debate as a donut does to an asteroid. One learns nothing about the issues that might be gained in a real debate. And don’t even start about the idea of who “won” the ‘debate.’ For Pete’s sake, they’re running for preznit of the USofA, not debate coach.