In yesterday’s open thread, some of you asked for the weekly address by Francine Wheeler, whose son, Ben, was murdered at age 6 in Newtown, so here it is. And here’s Charlie Pierce’s take on Politico, which thinks that they are “polished and sharp” on TV. I couldn’t watch this past the first minute because it was so goddam heart-wrenching, so you decide how “polished and sharp” Mrs. Wheeler looks.
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MomSense
I can’t watch this again. I watched it yesterday, couldn’t stop crying, hugged my youngest way too hard, and then called Sen. Collins’ Portland office again.
Politico can suck it.
Amir Khalid
I too found this video address difficult to watch, for the same reason. But as I’ve said, the opponents of gun safety regulation in your country can’t answer her argument, and they can’t shout her down. So they’ll just ignore her.
Corner Stone
I’m glad I read the link because at first blush I thought you meant CP was calling them polished and sharp. But clearly he’s taking Politico to task for expressing that sentiment. May just be lack of sleep on my part.
It’s clear they did the bit in several pieces with cuts and edits in between. I personally am not capable of imagining myself doing what these parents are doing.
Punchy
@Amir Khalid: Oh they’ll shout her down. If gun fuckers are one thing, it’s that they’re heartless shitbags with zero empathy. Im sure her countertops are being inspected as I rant.
Kay
They’re so dug in that it’s hard to move them.
I was thinking that there might be a way in thru the suicide issue, because many of the mass shooters are also suicidal.
Then I read the comments under this story:
This piece could not be less threatening to gun owners. She’s simply saying that suicide risk awareness should be part of of the discussion. She’s not even asking for a law! She simply wants to make people aware of the increased risk with a weapon in the home.
The comments from gun nuts are a barrage of denial. The gun nuts don’t want to know this, or even hear about it.
Anya
The opponents of gun safety are dispicable. They can watch that heart-wrenching appeal and continue with their irrational arguments. How do they sleep at night? Also, too, fuck politico. Bunch of immoral assholes.
Fwiffo
You made it a whole minute?
Amir Khalid
@Punchy:
I considered editing my comment to say
But upon further reflection, I reckon you’re right that that’s not a big deal to them.
wenchacha
Something about losing your beautiful innocent child to stupid, random 2nd Amendment solutions probably sharpens one’s purpose in life to a diamond-tipped point and prompts one to polish the message so it is crystal clear.
Fuck Politico. Evil douchebags.
gelfling545
@Kay: The NRA is trying to “protect our veterans’ rights” by getting the VA to stop notifying fire arm licensing authorities when people who receive a VA pension become so mentally incapable that their pension funds must be managed by a payee. (This is by no means a procedure in which anybody can just say someone is incapable, there must be medical testimony, hearings. etc. ) They see no reason why someone’s right to own guns should be infringed on due to mental incapacity. Of course, in these cases, the greatest danger is suicide so they want to make sure that the mentally ill have every opportunity to kill themselves. I guess it goes along with the rest of the conservative philosophy. If you’re sick – die.
Omnes Omnibus
Christ, that was a gut-wrenching video. The boys at Politico obviously have shriveled and dessicated souls if their response to was to discuss how polished and media savvy the Newtown parents are.
bago
Been there, done that. It does make you hopeful in a perverse manner, having enough publicity to elicit change. But yeah, dead friends make me alcoholic.
JCT
@Kay: I saw that yesterday and I’ve given up on reading comments in general, but looked at those . These gun fetishists are completely locked in, nothing matters more to them than their firearm binkie. Everything is evaluated through their 2nd amendment prism. It goes deeper than denial.
I think that what amazes me is their inability to even admit or address the simple fact that access to a firearm facilitates violence and suicide. Suicide is frequently driven by impulse (especially in the young) and our laws are filled with mitigating concerns regarding impulsivity and intent. An available firearm changes everything including “success rate”. This is not rocket science.
gbear
@Kay:
I watched the whole thing yesterday and realized that many takes were involved. She’d get to a point where she’d break down and the video would cut to a take where she’d gotten it more together. I’m glad that she had the courage to get through it.
A friend of mine has posted a picture to his facebook page of a friend holding a button that says ‘I am NOT carrying a gun’. The button wasn’t a threat to gun owners, it was just a statement about how the button-wearer felt about conceal-carry. 2/3 of the comments for that photo were from a gun freak screaming about how we were taking away his rights.
I posted this video in the comment thread and within seconds he had come back with a comment about how ‘people who give up their rights are stupid. This was his entire argument, repeated over and over again, sometimes with embellishment, but nothing anyone could say made a difference to him. WHAT A FUCKING MORON.
MomSense
@JCT:
I have been thinking that if we simply recorded the reactions/symptoms of the gun fetishists, we would discover that they are presenting with an illness. I suspect we are talking about mental disorders. We just don’t look at them this way and instead try and find some sort of rational or political explanation for the behavior.
schrodinger's cat
@Omnes Omnibus: I have even less respect for the MSM punditubbies than I do for Republican pols. They cover politics like it is a sport. It is like a big joke to them.
Kay
@gelfling545:
I’m familiar with the incompetency process and payees, although not for VA benefits, for SS disability. I sometimes represent the guardians for the mentally ill who are (adjudicated) incompetent, and other times I am the guardian if they don’t have family members or are indigent. Often family members are exhausted, and they just can’t deal with it anymore, so they turn it over to the probate court. It makes sense as far as family relationships, too, because then the judge can be the bad guy. It helps them maintain a relationship with the mentally ill family member, that distance between “the order” and the family. We have to deal with SS on the payee angle, which is the easy part:)
Anyway, THAT is absolutely amazing and extremely irresponsible. I’ll keep an eye out for it. Thank you.
Villago Delenda Est
@Punchy:
The fetish of the gun nuts is more important than human life itself.
Kay
@gbear:
I really like that. I would appreciate that, personally.
We’ve had the state statutory exception to concealed carry posted on the door here for a couple of years. All the law offices have it, most private businesses have it, in fact, and all the government buildings have it. They made the sticker available when they passed weapon deregulation here. It had faded, and it was off to the side on the door, and we had a guy wear his gun in here a couple of weeks ago, so we printed off a new BIGGER sign.
I just want a fighting chance. I’m not asking for a whole lot :)
The Other Bob
I have changed my opinion from being somewhat agnostic about gun laws to being downright hostile against gun owners. We have been way to respectful.
I know of alot of people who carry, even though they live in areas of negligible stranger violent crime. I have come to the conclusion that they are just cowards.
This brought me to a concept. What if we start the slogan “Cowards carry guns!”. It could be what is shouted at antigun rallies and printed on everything. It obviously would not be for every gun control group, but may be effective in changing a little bit of gun culture.
I’d like peoples honest thoughts.
Roger Moore
@gelfling545:
These are also people who have been fighting to make it easier for felons to regain their right to own guns. Which makes sense, since as the lobbying arm of the gun manufacturers, their primary goal is to make it as easy as possible to sell guns.
gbear
@Kay: Kay, I had 200 of them made at Cafepress and I still have about 100 left. If you have access to my email address, write me and I’ll send you some. I think I may be able to make them public at Cafepress. I’ll have to go check that out.
Roger Moore
@MomSense:
I suspect you could replace “gun fetishists” with “teabaggers” in that comment without loss of accuracy.
gogol's wife
@Kay:
They should look at the research of Dr. Matthew Miller at Harvard. Despite the lack of funding, he’s been doing excellent research on how much likelier children are to die in gun-owning households — from suicide, accident, or intentional violence.
I don’t usually like Charles Pierce, but that piece is right on the money.
WereBear
Of course it is. And of course we are.
If it weren’t for the fact that we have some seriously mentally ill billionaires spending money like a Bond villain to remake the world according to their twisted mindset, these mentally ill people would be recognized as such, and we might even have the resources to help them somehow.
eric
Repeat after me: Tribe first, all others second. If you remember that mantra then this all makes sense. The gun fetishists have made this a cultural litmus test of your American-bona fides, not unlike the way the Pledge was used or God Bless America, or even NASCAR.
kyle
The Politico article describes the parents as “savvy, effective advocates” who possess “unique moral authority” and present arguments in a way that is “respectful but forceful.” Damn Politico, those sneering bastards.
The parents are lobbying the Senate. They’re doing a good job of it. Politico is very, very bad for reporting this. We should not be presented with facts unless they are facts we consider suitable.
Kay
@gogol’s wife:
I thought it would be a way in to regular people, because it doesn’t have the criminal framing that they seem to find so offensive, but apparently not. It’s till worth doing, though. She’ll reach X number of people.
I do think my gut negative reaction to the NRA having anything to do with laws regarding mentally ill people was justified, though. Dear God. Not that. It’s still amazing to me that they decided to focus on children and the mentally ill. Ya know, because we all trust them so much. They’ve earned it!
What nerve. They’re shameless.
Ruckus
@The Other Bob:
There was a video post on here I think a couple of years ago about calling someone racist. The gist was that calling their actions racism rather than attacking them personally worked much better. Attacking them personally made them much more defensive and closed off.
Gun fetish people mostly have been sold bullshit. Working to get them to understand that will probably be more successful than attacking them as cowards.
First off they are armed and stupid, not a good combo, you don’t want them trying to prove you wrong.
Second, the reason they feel like they do is that you are correct, they are scared of most likely a lot of things, most of which they have no control of. This is something they feel they have some or have taken complete control of. You take that away and they have nothing left. You have to replace it with something. Possibly a better argument. You and I(and many, many more) get that better argument but we really don’t have one that makes sense for them. That’s what we need to find.
MomSense
@Roger Moore: @WereBear:
I suspect that if we were to place teabaggers and gun fetishists on a Venn diagram–there would be a lot of overlap.
Do we have any in B-J house therapists who could help with this?
Petorado
The Washington press establishment realizes it has the power to influence political outcomes by what messages they promote, who they allow to be heard, and in what frames political dialogue is permitted to occur within. VandeHei and Allen are doing what they can to diminish and caricature the Newtown families because their forceful and passionate action is usurping the control the Politico folks have over the gun control debate.
WereBear
I like it. It has the virtue of being true, as well.
However, it’s going to backfire. It’s a security object; it won’t go easily.
Ruckus
@Kay:
They’re shameless.
Another emotion among many they have learned to suppress way too well. It is possible that they are mentally deficient.
dewzke
Hay-Zeus Crisco! I’m crying two mornings in a row from posts here. Ode to Joy and now this. Glad crying and pissed off crying.
dewzke
I’m gonna go watch “Ode to Joy” again. fook..
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I mentioned this in another thread, but I had kind of a weird conversation about guns with my mom while we were visiting her where it turned out that she thinks that if someone wants to kill themselves, that’s their decision and it’s morally wrong for anyone to try to stop them by, say, making sure they don’t have access to a gun.
I should add in that my mom had some VERY bad experiences as a teenager with being involuntarily committed (I still don’t know the entire story because she won’t talk about it) so she’s very mistrustful of psychiatry and claims of mental illness. Still, it was a very odd perspective.
gbear
@Ruckus: The gun nut who was so freaked out about our ‘I am NOT carrying a gun’ buttons was completely dumbfounded as to how we could wear those buttons and not expect to be instantly mugged. He revealed how afraid he is of public interactions, and couldn’t get his mind around how most of us don’t feel any need to protect ourselves with guns.
eric
@gbear: worse yet, they dont see how a “I am carrying a gun” can make them a more likely target of a crime.
eric
@gbear: worse yet, they dont see how a “I am carrying a gun” can make them a more likely target of a crime.
Omnes Omnibus
@Petorado: I think you hit it on the head. The Villager media see their role as being gatekeepers – determining which issues and which players are serious and worthy of attention. They value this role above any duty they feel to inform the general public.
SiubhanDuinne
@dewzke:
You know, that is exactly what I did, and for exactly the same reason.
Petorado
@kyle:
Yes the article says that, but it also goes to great lengths to portray the Newtown families as a powerful special interest group who are gaming the system by using powerful insiders to their advantage and milking their tragedy to gain access that would otherwise not be theirs.
VandeHei and Allen are insinuating that the Newtown parents are exploiting their children’s death to gain power above their station, and after inventing this frame, the Politico folks turn around and snear at it.
Politico does in fact deserve derision for their attitude.
JCT
@gbear: It’s a very unique worldview, that is for sure. I’m going to avoid the obvious power and inadequacy issues but they truly seem to think that their guns imbue them with a near superpower level of control and supremacy. Mixed with paranoia it is a toxic brew.
I’m an avid target shooter (since I was a kid), I have never viewed a firearm with more “affection” than my tennis racquet. It’s just bizarre.
I was looking something up the other day and stumbled on a crazy thread where some guys were discussing whether they “always” carried their guns. One carefully detailed that his was always within arms reach including in the kitchen and the bathroom, etc. In his house. He was not an LEO. It really is their “binkie” . These are the guys that some of our elected officials are trying to appease. Why?
@eric: This is their argument for carrying concealed. It’s all nuts.
The Other Bob
My next snarky slogan would be: “The NRA: guaranteeing criminal access to guns and sucessful suicides since 19xx.”
Friend of Hermes
It comes down to how much Mike Allen hates the way he looks on Morning Joe. And well he should. No other pundit on TV looks as twisted and awkward as he does with his maniacal eyes and his frozen mouth. His looks and manner work in a hundred ways against what he is saying. So Francine Wheeler seems to be a gifted speaker on TV. She is also a real woman living in a genuine hell. The first does not negate the second.
TR
Oh Christ that is heart wrenching.
If you were moved by that, I hope you’re moved enough to heed her plea to call your senators and congressmen. They’re sure as shit hearing from the other side.
The Other Bob
@WereBear:
Not saying you are wrong, but it seem like sucessful campaigns often make both sides uncomfortable.
The NRA hasn’t been winning by being politite. They call us Hitler, Commies and gungrabbers. It has worked.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
Word.
Never, ever forget this. The NRA, from its very inception, has been an organ of the merchants of death to move their product.
WereBear
@The Other Bob: Well, it works on their constituency… who are raving loonies with zero empathy.
I do believe the greater public is somewhat better than that. We have to reach a different group.
Villago Delenda Est
@eric:
Telling people “I am carrying a gun” makes you a priority target.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Roger Moore: Among the horrors exposed when you look at the positions of these folks is how adamant they are about restoring gun ownership rights to felons. Compare it to their opposition to (the wrong kind, of course) felons regaining another constitutional right, ya know to VOTE.
rikyrah
I honestly believe the Newton parents need to get the courage of Mamie Till and release the photos of their dead children. That would cut to the chase and leave nothing to the imagination. Watching the gun nuts defend those clips after those pics were release would be the way to turn the screws on them.
dewzke
@SiubhanDuinne:
I think I’ll stay away from politics and watch some comedies today. Dang, any new ones to suggest?
beth
Any bets on how long before Ann Coulter starts referring to these parents as “harpies”?
Ruckus
@JCT:
Scared people act scared to politicians and give them a sense that the world is scary. If all you hear is scared people then you might start to believe that the world is scary. And it can be, but not to the extent that gun fetish people think it is.
Most of us make rational decisions about the risks of life. Gun fetishers can’t/don’t. Change that and a lot of the argument goes away. Get a substantial number of the fetishers to make that decision and then effective gun legislation can be passed.
And no, I have no idea how to make that argument. How many of the gun fetishers don’t trust government? I’ll bet a lot. So who is going to make the argument, once it is reasonably framed? We’re kind of stuck with the history and government we have, so we have to make the argument within those boundaries and have to figure out how to frame that argument.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Ruckus: The problem with finding an argument that makes sens to them is that it’s a case of trying to argue with faith. Gun ownership rights are like a religion to these specific people. It’s not subject to reason, because it’s faith. Add to that the fact that they tend to be fearful in lots of ways also not amenable to reason, and it’s close to impossible to be persuasive.
SiubhanDuinne
Don’t know what your taste in comedies is, but I saw “Quartet” a couple of weeks ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.
TR
If you really want to get depressed, go read the comments from he mouth breathers who read Politico on that article. What a bunch of psychopaths.
Omnes Omnibus
@TR: Nah, my masochism thing is DIY dental work.
Ruckus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
My point.
But faith can change. From the inside. It is very intransigent to outside force. Hence the problem.
Davis X. Machina
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Specifically, Moloch-worship. See the ever-estimable Garry Wills for details.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have a heck of a time working in the mirror while looking in a little mirror in my mouth. Right/left gets more confused than ever.
dewzke
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’ll check it out. Watching really stupid American Reunion now. I met Bill Connolly once on State Street in Madison, WI. Nice dude.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Ruckus: Yup. I assumed that was exactly your point. And I wish there were a way to help along the internal transformation, since 20 dead elementary school children us clearly insufficient.
gogol's wife
@JCT:
I was interested in the NYTimes article yesterday that said that the prosecutor who was murdered along with his wife in Texas, after another prosecutor had been murdered a few days before, had had loaded guns stashed all over his home. Yet it didn’t help him.
Elizabelle
@TR:
re Politico commenters: if anyone with an open mind wades into those comments, the mouthbreathers are going to lose their case for themselves.
They’re talking to each other, but it’s not going to be enough, in the long term.
Elie
I think that this and all of the efforts are working. a long way still — sure — but less long than it was —
The most powerful communication about the need to pursue civil rights NOW were written by Martin Luther King Jr from a fucking JAIL. (Anniversary of that, by the way is TODAY)
These parents and the many supporters for common sense gun regulation– WE have the flow and energy behind us. Hold our heads up and lets move forward. Let the whiners whine and slink around pissing their pants in the shadows….
I watched this twice and placed it on my facebook. The pain is the fire we need to brand this in our hearts and minds.. its about working this through the pain…
muddy
@beth: Now that’d be a perfect projection, as her pic is in the dictionary next to the word “harpy”.
Beauzeaux
I like the idea of the “I Am Not Carrying a Gun” button except that I live in Canada. People would think I’m nuts. Of course you’re not carrying a gun. Who does?
Lots of Canadians have guns but generally don’t get the USA Gun Worship.
muddy
@Beauzeaux: Clearly a lack of video games.
Elie
@Beauzeaux:
I actually think that the US LOVE OF GUNS — has been oversold and overhyped because the people who did not were silent — letting the bullies push that perception without check. That is changing. I am not stupid enough to say its ending, but its definitely shifting …
Linnaeus
@Davis X. Machina:
That was an outstanding piece. Wills is a national treasure.
andy
@The Other Bob:
Dunno If I mentioned it here, but the day before Easter at our local Cub Foods (Baxter, MN) I saw this guy open carrying there with his wife to pick up an Easter ham. I’ve been a gun nut in my time, but even at my worst I think I would have been repellled. If wearing a gun openly in a community where very little violence happens ever isn’t a statement of insecurity I don’t know what is.
I think resigned disgust is what I would call my reaction when I saw that automatic riding on his hip. Like what you would feel for a healthy, sober adult if you saw him shitting his pants in public…
Mnemosyne
@andy:
His first choice probably would have been to walk through the store with no pants, but local ordinances tend to ban that, so he did the next best thing.
I usually don’t jump on the “gun=pen1s substitute” bandwagon, but it’s so obviously the point of open carry that it can’t be ignored (“Look at me! Look at what I have! Look look look!”)
TerryC
@The Other Bob: “Cowards carry guns!”. I really like that.