Per NYMag‘s ladyblog:
Kate Middleton’s baby is HERE! Third in line for the throne, the little prince weighed eight pounds, six ounces and was born at 4:24 p.m. this afternoon… Ahead of the traditional announcement, which consists of the baby’s gender, weight, and time of birth written on a piece of paper and placed on an easel in front of Buckingham Palace, the royal family made a last-minute decision to issue a formal press release via e-mail at approximately 3:36 p.m. E.T. (8:36 p.m. London time). Clarence House also tweeted the news, adding that all parties are healthy and will remain in the hospital overnight…
Best comment I’ve seen so far:
"They already live off the government & now they're having more kids?" -My thoughts on the #RoyalBaby
— Hari Kondabolu (@harikondabolu) July 22, 2013
Add yours in the comments, unless you’d rather talk about something else.
Origuy
I’m going with Stephen Richard John Aethelred. They won’t let the kid anywhere near the throne.
Citizen_X
Fucking Lannisters.
Anne Laurie
@Origuy: Maybe Granpa will agree to forfeit his place in the succcession if they name the little nipper “Charles”?
Better than the current front-runners — George, Albert, or some bastardized male version of Diana.
beltane
@Origuy: King Stephen wasn’t really given a fair chance. I know that England descended into anarchy during his reign but maybe the time has come to let bygones be bygones.
sherparick
Technically, they are the Government! See definition of “monarchy.” Of course, this is a very bad idea. On the otherhand Kate is nice to look at when standing in line at the grocery store when compared to the Kardashians.
? Martin
I’m sticking with Tyrone. I have a good feeling about that one.
piratedan
just stay away from the middle name of Wayne, there’s some seriously bad mojo with that handle
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Origuy: I think if Princess Ann really wanted the gold chair and the embejewelled hat and that fancy stick, Charles and all his progeny would be SOL.
Even Tweety seems to have gone all royal family, all the time. I guess the star-fucking side of his personality beats out the professional blue-collar Son of Hibernia schtick. I just caught him making the tourism argument for teh Battenbergs. I guess that’s why nobody goes to France, Italy, Germany, Austria. No royals.
Elizabelle
@sherparick:
Yes. And I don’t think the baby will be named “North” or marry a Laker.
Violet
@Anne Laurie: I like George. I think it’s a good name. But how about Richard, in honor of the recent Plantagenet discovery?
SiubhanDuinne
@? Martin: Naah. Justin. Bank on it.
Ash Can
I bet Kate’s glad to have the damned pregnancy over with. All the best to the little ankle-biter and the new parents. Now someone tell the American press to calm the fuck down.
SFAW
Insert generic not-particularly-funny snarky comment here.
OK, do I win the Chris Hayes book?
beltane
Maybe they will surprise us and go with Louis or Philippe.
Violet
@Ash Can: Especially given the heat wave they’ve had in the UK recently. I bet she’s glad she’s no longer pregnant.
Elizabelle
Now I’m watching Hardball with Michele Kosinski reporting.
I never see her without seeing people walking around in a canoe behind her.
? Martin
@SiubhanDuinne: King Justin? No. King Tyrone? Fuck yeah. Take off some heads, he would.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: Ryan Josh Caleb Justin, the bro prince
Anya
I am just disgusted with all the undeserved attention this over-privileged royal spawn is getting. WTF, American media?
beer time somewhere
Last time I looked the odds on the name Barrack were 200-1.
Who even places a bet on this?
donnah
Kate was overdue and the Queen wanted to leave for her vacation, so they probably induced the poor thing. Congrats to the whole lot of them, and may the baby boy be safe and happy.
ira-NY
Mongo!
Baud
@Anya:
Think of it as an opportunity for snark.
Violet
@Elizabelle: You and me both. My other favorite Michelle Kosinski moment was when she was reporting on some heatwave in the northeast. She was at a construction site and had the camera man point the camera at some recently poured asphalt. She tried to make the steam rising from it a big deal. Duh. It was recently poured asphalt.
She followed that with my favorite bit, where she pointed up at the crane operator way up in the sky. “If it’s this hot down here,” she said, “Imagine how hot it is up there. Heat rises!” Yes, dumbass lady. Don’t worry about pesky science details like more wind at higher altitudes or reflective heat from the concrete on the ground. Who needs details like that?
Baud
Don’t tell me I’m the only one who had hoped that the baby would be born black.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Hahaha! So true. I’m going to leave the “telly” off tonight because I’m sure the slobbering coverage will be nauseating. What a shitty time for my FUCK YOU VERIZON router to go on the fritz and exile me from Netflix. Pfft.
Hungry Joe
I always feel a little sorry for a newborn royal: No chance whatsoever of living a normal life. And, although forever beyond want, much less need, doomed to a life of unimaginably tedious, near-“Titus Groan”-level ritual and neuron-cauterizing boredom.
Chat Noir
@? Martin: I like it.
Origuy
@Violet:
Richard II and III were overthrown; the first one only spent six months in England. Not good precedents.
There’s speculation that if Charles ever does get in, he’ll go with another name, probably George. The name Charles is linked closely with the Stuarts; that line didn’t end well.
katie5
@Ash Can: I was so hoping she would give birth on late Friday night, so as to screw over the American media.
Elizabelle
@Violet:
It’s why she’s with the majors.
Violet
@Origuy: Yeah, the whole precedent of the name thing is kind of ridiculous. Whatever the kids want to name him, they should name him.
Anya
@Baud: then years later they would discover that the baby was switched with a Nigerian chief’s baby, and Kate and Will triumphantly reunite and the disgruntled nurse punished.
Violet
@Elizabelle: I figured she had to be in the running to get the anchor job, or at least news reader job, for the Today Show. She always seems to be reporting from Europe, though. I wonder if she’s settled there?
quannlace
“”They already live off the government & now they’re”
**************
At least Prince Harry’s in the Army. He does something for his keep.
And with his new nephew, he’ll be happy somebody else will be running around naked in the Palace.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure we all miss Princess Margaret in our own way.
Pogonip
I think he should be named Tunch.
The Other Bob
A whole lot of tea partiers died so I wouldn’t have to discuss this brat.
Litlebritdifrnt
I was rooting for a girl, seeing as we have had some really kick ass Queens, but at least this means they don’t have to go and bother with that act of parliament now. Also there was the possibility that they would have named a girl Diana and the thought of a Queen Diana makes me queasy even though I will of course be long dead when it would have happened.
If I know Prince Philip he’ll be cracking the “Great Grandmama” jokes all night while Lilbet sips her gin.
PaulW
For names I’d either go with William Patrick Jon Tom Peter Colin Sylvester Paul Christopher David Matt…
Or Jon Tyrion Gendry Davos
Baud
@Anya:
It screams witty British comedy that will one day be adapted to a shitty American knockoff.
NotMax
Bubba Hussein Windsor.
Moving on…
‘W’-appointed judge (and also a secret FISA court judge) tells administration in so many words that drone strikes are too the judiciary’s business.
Jewish Steel
For the sake of comity: Tupacbiggie Windsor.
Litlebritdifrnt
@quannlace:
“at least Harry is in the Army” so is William and works as a Search and Rescue pilot, his father was in the Navy and commanded a ship, his uncle Andrew served as a helicopter pilot with the Navy during the Falklands War, his Aunt Anne is Commandant in Chief of the Women’s Royal Naval Service. His Grandma was a vehicle mechanic during World War II.
They all have jobs and as far as I am concerned they earn their keep and then some. Do yourself a favor and become just a tad more informed next time you choose to opine on a subject.
Omnes Omnibus
@Litlebritdifrnt: My guess is that Royalty related stuff brings in more income to the UK than the Royals cost as well.
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: Atta girl!
SiubhanDuinne
@Litlebritdifrnt: Well, they were already great-grandparents twice over before the heir arrived today, so I imagine he’s made all those jokes. Of course, at age 92, one is entitled to become a bit forgetful and repeat oneself.
maya
Fauntleroy.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Omnes Omnibus:
As they reported on Morning Joe this morning 500 million pounds worth of stuff.
pokeyblow
I wonder whether Kate will follow Saint Diana’s example by giving William one legitimate kid before carrying the babies of various chauffeurs, soccer players, and other euro trash she may encounter while clubbing.
Litlebritdifrnt
@SiubhanDuinne:
My bad. I should be ashamed of myself for forgetting about Anne’s children.
eemom
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Yowza. Cue first ever BJ Neo-Revolutionary Flame War?
Keith G
@Anya:
Well, it is a nice break from what’s been getting media attention lately. Not a whole lot of feel good stories. But if you want to rage against the wind, go ahead. Mom and the kid seem okay and most the Brits seem happy equals a spot of happy news.
Litlebritdifrnt
@pokeyblow:
Diana had five kids? Who knew?
Jay C
@piratedan: @beer time somewhere:
And from a blurb I heard on the radio a few days ago, British bookies were giving “Wayne” and “Waynessa” 1000-1 odds….
Who bets on this stuff? The Brits, apparently…
burnspbesq
Boss Juan Carlos, after Cole’s and TRex’ cats.
maya
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Is there a royal cat calendar amid the poundage? Or,even a royal cat colander? Huh!
I thought not.
Violet
@Keith G: Agreed. It’s just happy news. Young couple has healthy baby boy. Yay! Everyone is happy and excited. I find it hard to get up in arms about the fact that the media is focusing on it. Been a crappy couple of weeks. Nice to have some happy news for a change.
Citizen_X
@Jewish Steel: I was holding out for naming him Ol’ Dirty Bastard. RESPECT!
Omnes Omnibus
@Litlebritdifrnt: I have real difficulties with the concept of royalty, but the citizens of those countries that still have it seem happy enough with it so bully for them/you. Plus, this lot seems a metric shit ton more useful/valuable/worthy of continued existence than the Romney family.
WereBear
As always, I’m happy the baby is healthy and Mom is okay. Never been a Royal watcher. And after what happened with Princess Margaret Rose:
I always felt that all the money and fuss meant nothing to a woman doomed to be unhappy in love her entire life. I mean, she did drink herself to death.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s the same response I always used to hear about the dumbass basketball obsession at a certain educational institution I once attended.
Jewish Steel
@Citizen_X: Pastyface KIllah!
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: UNC?
ETA: Their positions are basically ceremonial and, for the most part, they do them reasonably well. I got no beef wit’ dem.
pokeyblow
@Litlebritdifrnt: I’m optimistic that Kate will have better judgment than Saint Diana did, and may live long enough to breed a whole Benetton ad of half-siblings for losers to waste their time getting excited over.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Keith G:
We really are on a roll at the moment, after the Olympics and the Jubilee last year, this year’s Wimbledon win, rugby win, Tour De France win and now the ashes I should imagine that the folks in Britain are just itching for another reason to celebrate. From what I understand there are going to be a lot of street parties this weekend.
David Koch
I’d go with Ryan Braun. That’s a good honest name.
Violet
@Litlebritdifrnt: Yeah, it’s quite a run for the UK.
Baud
@Litlebritdifrnt:
On the other hand, David Cameron.
Jebediah
I think Jebediah is a fine name for prince.
Violet
He should be called Tunch.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jebediah: West Virginia and Kentucky have royalty?
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nah. I just seems like that because of the inbreeding.
Mnemosyne
My friend’s son finally wore her down and his new kitten, Cinders, is coming home today. I already have her reading Werebear’s blog for advice. BWAH-HAHAHAHAHA — the cat army marches on!!
Johnnybuck
Tanquery Boodle Gibley Windsor aka Butch
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
Naah. Carolina only pretends to be obsessed with basketball. Their real obsessions are with academic fraud and women’s soccer.
ETA: e’s just PO’ed because graduate students get crappy seats at Cameron.
Princess Leia
@Mnemosyne: Maybe your friend would like to know that the kitten is really a healing machine! http://www.gemmabusquets.com/work/healing-power-of-cat-purrs/
Villago Delenda Est
“L’etat, c’est moi!” — The Royal Baby
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: I knew one of you would respond.
Litlebritdifrnt
@raven:
It always pisses me off when someone says shit like that because the “royalty” (ie politicians) over here never let their kids serve in the military, that is just for poor people’s kids. With the exception of Joe Biden I can’t even think of that many politicians who have kids serving.
I remember when Andrew was in the Falklands it was a big deal, he basically said “If I am going to serve then I am going to serve without exception” (pretty much the way Harry did these days, it is always easier when you are the “spare” in the heir and a spare equation) I will never forget seeing those images of him flying his helicopter into that black smoke and pulling sailors out of the water, not only cause he was Prince Andrew but he was also a friend.
Ticks me off it does.
Villago Delenda Est
They should name the little rugrat Henry or George. James and Charles are right out.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne: Thanks! I love seeing the next generation become Cat Appreciators.
burnspbesq
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’d certainly like to crown Mitch McConnell, although I doubt that’s what you were referring to.
Villago Delenda Est
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Not to mention the death of the wicked witch earlier this year!
Now THAT was a reason to celebrate!
Walker
@Litlebritdifrnt:
If your rad their PR stuff, the royals are very clear about how they only get taxpayer money for performing official state duties — just like any other ambassador or diplomat. Most of their money comes from the estates, which is both property tax free and inheritance tax free (they pay income tax, but that is not going to ever put a dent into the estates.
Which is exactly what the tea partiers would like to do here. So the tea partiers are literally in favor of setting up an aristocracy in the US.
Omnes Omnibus
@Litlebritdifrnt: I hate to say it, but I do thin John (I was a POW) McCain and a kid or two who served.
pokeyblow
@Litlebritdifrnt: Harry looks dashing in his nazi clothes. I’m jealous that I don’t get taxed to pay for them.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
They should name all their children George. Like George Forman did.
NotMax
Flout tradition; name the boy Elizabeth.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
I didn’t even get it.
JWL
It would be awesome if they named him Kong.
RobertDSC-iPhone 4
I adore the Duchess. Sending her & hers good wishes.
eemom
@NotMax:
Better yet, Camillo.
Jewish Steel
@Baud: Not to mention the Hanoverians.
Villago Delenda Est
@Walker:
Bingo. Which is why the teatards are utter treasonous scum.
Jebediah
@Omnes Omnibus:
Wouldn’t know. I am originally from the hills and hollers of Western Massachusetts. My wife occasionally accuses me of being a hillbilly but I ain’t really.
SiubhanDuinne
I don’t mind admitting I’ve been an unabashed royal-watcher since 1947. I was five years old, and I remember sitting around the radio with my family listening to news reports of (then) Princess Elizabeth’s wedding to Prince Philip. I was glued to all the Coronation coverage, and I have to say that early Princess-love got me seriously interested in English history. I’m an American, and a proud one, but a Constitutional Monarchy seems to work very well for the Brits (not to mention Canadians, Australians, etc.) and I’m not about to knock it. That said, the Kardashian-level of worshipful slavering attention turns me right off.
Emma
You know what? ‘Weird Charles” would be a better prime minister than the POS that has the job right now. The Prince’s Trust has raised more money and found more jobs and businesses for young people than all the damn Tory administrations in the later half of the twentieth century. Every year they work with 40,000 – 50,000 young people and 80% go on to jobs or businesses.
And when it comes to tourism, they’re the champs. The royal family brings in about £176M to the UK treasury. And that does not include the money made by restaurants, hotels, cabs and stores. I think that is what is called a good investment.
Mnemosyne
@WereBear:
My friend is also slightly nutty about the Primal diet (which, for her in particular, means no grains since she has weird grass allergies) so she’s completely on board with giving kitty a high-quality, grain-free diet.
Villago Delenda Est
@JWL:
King Kong the First?
Wilhelm (NOT William) would be good. Let’s get all Saxe-Coburg-Gotha!
Baud
So Charles is prince of Wales, and William is Duke of Cambridge. What’s the new guy get?
Emma
@pokeyblow: How good did you look in your US uniform in Afghanistan? Because they guy has put his ass on the line twice.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud:
Duke of Earl.
Seanly
What I want to knwo is when is the Queen going to step down? Is she hoping to outlive Charles so he never sits on the throne?
Good for Kate that she had a healthy baby. I’m pulling for the name .
Chris
@Keith G:
Pretty much.
To quote myself in the last thread, British royalty is like Hollywood stardom; overpriviledged, yes, getting too much attention, sure, and yes, some of them are douchebags, but as elites go, they’re harmless overall. They’re not starting wars or crashing economies.
(And as others have pointed out, the military service among their offspring is always worthy of respect. How many Wall Street bankers or Washington congressmen – or the British equivalents – can say the same for their kids?)
Tara the Antisocial Social Worker
I’m going with William Joseph James Robert.
Someday to be King Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
They should soooo name the baby Earl.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne: That’s wonderful. I eat Primal, too.
Little Cinders sounds like he hit the jackpot :)
gogol's wife
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Now that I know pokeyblow is against them I have a much higher opinion of the royals.
pokeyblow
I think it’s great that Harry saluted the nazis who rained death and destruction down on London, not to mention doing a few other bad things.
I wonder what Paddy Power will pay out if the new kid has freckles and red hair?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Tweety made a reference to his weird obsessions, or words to that effect, and I thought, “like the environment?” Then it occured to me, I haven’t heard him talk about it in a while. Granted I’m not a royal watcher, and I guess the Guardian, which I skim over from time to time, makes it a point to ignore the royals, but I was wondering if the gov’t told him to pipe down.
pokeyblow
@gogol’s wife: What an impressive process for developing opinions.
Keith G
@Litlebritdifrnt: But you forgot the most important event of the last few years…
The Queen wins the Royal Ascot Gold Cup!
Well, her filly did.
Princess Leia
@Tara the Antisocial Social Worker: Win.
Jebediah
@Villago Delenda Est:
Well then, he should be named Earl.
Or maybe Duke. “Presenting Duke, Duke of Earl!”
gogol's wife
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Doesn’t he have a whole farming operation based on sustainability or some such? I don’t think he’s given it up.
pokeyblow
@Emma:Oh, in that case he totally deserves countless estates and a lifetime of first-class accommodation, not to mention endless sycophancy from genius librarian/beanie-baby-collection-curators such as yourself.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
IIRC, it’s up to the queen. There tend to be a lot of stray titles laying around that she can assign to him.
I know that there’s a strange quirk of the British aristocracy where, legally, only the current holder of a title is part of the nobility — everyone else has a courtesy title and is legally a commoner, which is why you’ll sometimes hear about what “Lord Suchandsuch” said in the House of Commons — he’ll be a younger son who gets assigned a courtesy title, but he’s not legally a nobleman, so he can be elected to the House of Commons. Not sure if it extends to members of the royal family, though.
ETA: That’s why there was a bit of a fuss when Charles and Diana married because he was marrying a “commoner” — her courtesy title was Lady Diana Spencer, but legally she was just as much a commoner as Duchess Kate was before she married.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gogol’s wife: I think you’re right, but I was thinking more in terms of speaking and public campaigning, seems to me he got pretty outspoken a few years back, but I don’t know much about the green movement/renewable industry in Britain.
And like you, knowing pokeyblow is a vicarious republican, I’m gonna order a fucking tea cosy with Phil and Betty’s picture on it, may my dead Irish grandparents forgive me.
Keith G
@pokeyblow: You didn’t answer her question
Chris
@Walker:
There’s an argument to be made that aristocracy is exactly what the plantation owners in the early United States were, in fact if not in name – it’s certainly close enough even if it wasn’t legally recognized.
maya
@Baud: Lord of Liverpool
Mnemosyne
@gogol’s wife:
Since I’m a knitter who occasionally buys British knitting magazines, I know that he sponsors the Campaign for Wool, which is an attempt to bring sustainable wool production back to Great Britain. So the answer is yes.
Southern Beale
I’m hoping they’ll name the kid Blanket or Duvet or some shit like that.
In other news, here’s why I’ve quit Googling.
Baud
@maya:
Is that true, or was it excellent but woefully sad snark.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@maya: Isn’t that Paul MacCartney’s title?
cckids
@Mnemosyne:
When I saw that 2 of The Critter Room’s kittens went unadopted Saturday, I tried very very hard to get my Seattle-based sister to give up already & join the catted part of the family. She is still resisting.
OK, she has a neurotic saved dog with seizures & serious personality issues, so probably not the best home for a kitten. But someday. . . .
I only keep after her because all my cats love love love her, and they normally do not enjoy other people.
Edited because FYWP, why does the link thing do that sometimes, & sometimes not.
pokeyblow
@Keith G: I don’t respect her enough to bother. Especially now that she’s become an apologist for neo-nazi behavior.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
They should give him the London Underground and the UK Internet: “Lord of the Tube and of the Tubes”
pokeyblow
Soon enough we’ll know whether he deserves his putative father’s honorific epithet “Cuckoldson.”
Bobby Thomson
Rogers Nelson.
Emma
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t think so. He’s still going strong, as far as I can tell. It’s funny. This guy, nearly single-handedly, brought organic farming to the public notice in the UK. Decided that young people were a good bet and has spent 30 years raising money for them. Is environmentally conscious, and works at it. If he didn’t have a title we would consider him a hero.
maya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s SIR Paul McCartney and if he be so, then that means WAR! Brits haven’t had a royal war in ages. They’re always fun
Emma
@pokeyblow: Yo really are a galloping arse, aren’t you? And not even a good insult. No rhythm, no talent. Pied, coward.
bill d
They give the kid a weird name like Sarah Palin gave hers, I’d like to suggest Ranch Casserole
Jebediah
@Southern Beale:
I recently started using Duck Duck Go.
NotMax
@Baud
Boss of the Bahamas?
Higgs Boson's Mate
Prince Heywood Jablome. Just for the fun of watching everyone else trying to keep a straight face.
Emma
@gogol’s wife: Highgrove. It’s spectacular.
Omnes Omnibus
@pokeyblow: Does the fact that I have gone to costume parties dressed as a Soviet apparatchik bring judgment upon me? Or was I just wearing a costume?
NotMax
@Southern Beale
@Jebediah
Ixquick
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Gesundheit.
SiubhanDuinne
@Emma:
Yup. The Prince’s Trust does a helluva lot more social good than PM Cameron’s government is ever likely to do.
daverave
IIRC, Charles has also been ranting against modern architecture for years and champions going back to the classics of the Tudors, Georgians, Greeks and Romans. Sometimes he’s got a point but he was rather inflexible about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@daverave:
Navy types often get that way.
pokeyblow
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, if I see your photo in countless magazines and newspapers, and learn you live in numerous stupifyingly-sumptuous homes, for free, all because of a bs claim that you are the son of a man who plainly isn’t your father, and a bunch of moronic Americans who are supposed to sort of, you know, not be into royalty and übermenschenheit generally, gush about how wonderful you are… then yes, I’ll probably judge you for your foolish behaviors.
Somehow, though, I suspect your profile isn’t in the neighborhood of what I described above.
nwithers
@Omnes Omnibus:
They bring in quite a bit more than they cost, on a lot of levels. Here is an excellent rundown on how much the british government by cpg grey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw
Litlebritdifrnt
@Mnemosyne:
She wasn’t a commoner per se, she was the daughter of Earl Spencer, which is why she was in Charles’ circle of friends to begin with. He originally dated her sister. Kate is truly a “commoner” as it is known.
Charles has been a “green” campaigner since before it was cool. He admitted to talking to his plants many moons ago and was considered a “wierdo” because of it.
SiubhanDuinne
@pokeyblow:
Please to explain. Seriously. Who and what are you talking about?
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: Grampa Walnuts son was/is a jarhead.
pokeyblow
@SiubhanDuinne: No, your invitation doesn’t interest me.
SiubhanDuinne
It’s an Open Thread, so…
I can hardly express how saddened I am to have almost daily reinforcement of the fact that my brother is a narrow-minded xenophobic racist. Just … very sad.
SiubhanDuinne
@pokeyblow: That was a very brave response, Sir Robin.
burnspbesq
@pokeyblow:
Why are you being a douchebag about this? You have a problem with a little harmless celebrity worship?
I am not a kook
I already refused to watch the Windsor & Spencer wedding extravaganza back when I was fifteen. Apart from my distaste for hereditary military dictatorships (“monarchy”) and their last vestiges, the though of that goofy old guy arranged-marrying a young woman only three years older than me at the time just… eww.
I have done very well ignoring the fuckers since. Of course, now my teenage daughter keeps tabs on the Swedish princesses. Sigh, I believe there is a small-r republican talk in her future.
I can understand some of the more feeble minded Brits getting mushy – they are after all subjects, not citizens – but people outside of UK borders? Get a life.
raven
son John Sidney IV (“Jack”) graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 2009, becoming the fourth generation John S. McCain to do so, and is a helicopter pilot; son James served two tours with the marines in the Iraq War; and son Doug flew jets in the navy.[
Bobby Thomson
@SiubhanDuinne: Harry looks quite a bit like James Hewitt, and Charles isn’t a ginger. Harry also has a personality, but then, so did Randy Andy.
Chris
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’ve got cousins like that, but not immediate (father/mother/brother) family. It’s still extremely sad, though, especially given that they’re the ones I was closest to when I was a kid, back before any of that shit mattered. :( Can always hope they pull a John Cole/Charles Johnson one day.
burnspbesq
@Bobby Thomson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Harry_of_Wales
Litlebritdifrnt
@raven:
Yes, I said I knew of a few but couldn’t name them off the top of my head but they are few and far between you have to admit.
I know there is always the perception that the Royals are given special treatment when they join the military but I am here to tell you they are not. I was there for Andrew’s basic training as a helicopter pilot and he did the dunk tank like everyone else, he did the survival course like everyone else, and no his body guard was not sneaking mars bars into the woods for him, he did the emergency medicine course like everyone else (which is the hardest course there because you were confronted with some very realistic injuries). Harry wanted to join the Royal Marines and crapped out during basic training because he couldn’t handle it (joke at the time “you can turn a frog into a prince but you can’t turn a prince into a Royal Marine), he wasn’t given any special treatment and he was man enough to accept that he couldn’t hack the training so he went into the Army instead and then said to his Grandma “no special treatment” and she respected that and he has done two tours in Afghanistan. I would love to know what pokeyblow’s military service has been.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: The claim is that Harry is not Charles’s son, that he looks more like James Hewitt with whom Diana had an affair. Of course, the resemblance to Charles Spencer, Diana’s brother, goes ignored in this.
SiubhanDuinne
@Bobby Thomson: Yeah, I’ve heard these rumours since Harry was born, or very nearly. But I’ve seen photos of him as an adult where he is the image of his (paternal) grandfather Prince Philip. And really, in any case, if Prince Charles accepts him fully as his son, why shouldn’t the rest of the world?
Yatsuno
@SiubhanDuinne: There have been numerous rumours about the legitimacy of Prince Harold. I used to be in the camp of “it would be irresponsible not to speculate” until I saw a picture of his grandfather in his younger days. It erased all my doubts.
It was a minor tiff between me and the NYD. He won. And wouldn’t stop crowing about it.
EDIT: And…y’all beat me to it. But I at least have pics.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus: Yup. I do see a lot of Spencer in him, but as I remarked to Bobby Thomson in#162, I also see a lot of Windsor-Mountbatten.
Litlebritdifrnt
@I am not a kook:
You might want to watch who you are calling feeble minded there bub.
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: I pie pokeyblow so I don’t know what stupidity he’s spouting today. Ever see “My Boy Jack”?
JPL
The first time I heard about the Harry rumors was exactly one hour ago. What is wrong with me? Do I have to watch honey boo boo or the housewife thingy? What I said to the person who mentioned it, was good. It was obviously an unhappy marriage and if she found enjoyment with someone else, so be it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yatsuno: Prince Henry, I think you mean :-)
I am still searching for the photo I saw of Prince Harry that is heart-stoppingly like his grandfather Philip. That was one gorgeous dude back in the day and it is no wonder Princess Elizabeth fell head over ears in love with him. I mean, I was only five and I was kind of a mush-ball myself looking at him. I can’t imagine what I would have been like had I had active glands in 1947!
Omnes Omnibus
@JPL: They both were having affairs. My guess is that once Diana produced the obligatory heir and a spare the two of them cease to “boink.”
Bex
@Baud: His title is HRH the Prince of Cambridge.
Violet
Harry’s a dish. I don’t care who his daddy is and it’s not my business. And since Charles says Harry is his son and Harry calls Charles dad, the matter seems settled to me. If the royal family required DNA tests to prove that offspring are actually genetically related to the dad, then there no doubt would have been quite a few surprises back in the day.
Bobby Thomson
@SiubhanDuinne: Tell it to Sarah Plain and Tall. Personally, I think the possibility of him being a bastard makes Harry more likeable. It’s also catnip for people who don’t believe in monarchy.
JPL
ot.. For those who having been following my tales of woe concerning Miss Moxie’s illness, she has gone to a bigger playground. What sucks is that I still hear her tags clanging together although that will pass. (I guess)
miss moxie was in May’s calendar.. btw
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet: This. Thank you.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Too bad “The Fast Show” is no longer on. I’d love to see their treatment of this event.
Suits you, sir!
Litlebritdifrnt
@raven:
I haven’t but it looks interesting.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL: Oh no. I am so very sorry. She was a sweetie.
Big {{{hugs}}} to you and your sons.
Yatsuno
@JPL: :: hug :: I’m sorry dear.
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, I muffed his name. I am forever ashamed! I went looking for that picture as well, still hunting.
EDIT: Might be this one. I definitely see it here.
raven
@JPL: Aw I’m so sorry to hear that news. Best to you and Moxie.
Litlebritdifrnt
@JPL:
*Hugs* I am so sorry to hear that.
I am not a kook
@Litlebritdifrnt: Fine, feeble minded is not nice. How about traditionalist authoritarian? Is that better? I even took out “aristo-licking” from the new formulation to be nice.
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt:
“Have you news of my boy Jack?”
Not this tide.
“When d’you think that he’ll come back?”
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.
“Has any one else had word of him?”
Not this tide.
For what is sunk will hardly swim,
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.
“Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?”
None this tide,
Nor any tide,
Except he did not shame his kind —
Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide.
Then hold your head up all the more,
This tide,
And every tide;
Because he was the son you bore,
And gave to that wind blowing and that tide!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yeesh, the good news is it looks like no severe injuries or deaths
The flight was from Nashville.
Dee Loralei
@JPL: so sorry for your loss.
PeakVT
I must confess I have little interest in what goes in to or comes out of the Royal Vagina.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven: I am forever knocked out (in a good way) at the wide range of poetry and lyrics you know, all of which are apt to whatever conversation is going on at the moment.
Violet
@JPL: Oh, no. I’m so sorry.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Violet:
Spot on Violet, who the hell knows who was actually the father of many of our Kings and Queens? Hell here in North Carolina we have a law which presumes any child born of a marriage is the husband’s child and unless there are DNA tests to prove otherwise it is law. We had a client who married his pregnant girlfriend and 18 years later after a nasty divorce discovered that the child he had raised as his own for 18 years was actually not his. Didn’t matter to him or the kid though, as far as he was concerned the kid was his son and as far as the kid was concerned the man was his dad.
Omnes Omnibus
@PeakVT:
Worst cruise ship name ever.
Poopyman
@JPL: Condolences, JPL. It sucks big time, but was inevitable at some point. That’s the bargain we make.
raven
@Litlebritdifrnt: All the Kings Men about the Sandringham Company at Gallipoli is a worthy view as well. Maggie plays the Queen in that one.
Keith G
@Litlebritdifrnt: I have a high regard for skepticism and tend to offer support to those willing to point out the flaws in any much loved system, but those who crap on things just to differentiate themselves from a crowd are more than a bit tiring – particularly when their :”insights” are in the common currency of personal attack and cliched rumor and outdowns.
Redshirt
King Aggressive Lover, First of His Name.
Poopyman
@Litlebritdifrnt: By the way, if Willy ever gets coronated, does Kate make it to Queen?
raven
@SiubhanDuinne I recall them and where to find them but to say I “know” them is a stretch, unless it’s rock and roll that is.
Comrade Dread
Oh, good, CNN has something of absolutely no substance to chatter on about for the next 7 or 8 weeks. I was worried they were going to have to start reporting news soon.
Also, the modern royal family much like the modern papacy has gotten rather dull. Not a good hanging, betrayal, poisoning, or beheading between the lot of them.
Poopyman
Name the kid George. Or John. Maybe Paul. Or
RingoRichard.WereBear
@JPL: I’m really sorry. I always loved her name.
Omnes Omnibus
@Poopyman: Yes, but she would be a queen consort rather than a queen regnant like Elizabeth.
Yeah, I had to do fucked protocol stuff during one of my army jobs.
Higgs Boson's Mate
For all of you Jacobites out there:
Cam Ye O’er Fra France – Steeleye Span.
SiubhanDuinne
@Poopyman: Crowned, not Corp aged, and yes.
JPL
Moxie was my first rescue and she was a tad different but I saw her beauty. A few friends after meeting Moxie, rescued dogs and would bring them over because they also got a Moxie. One looked like a Sheltie and the other looked like a Westie but to them they looked like Moxie. She was the prettiest girl ever btw.
Keith G
@raven: “My Boy Jack” was indeed touching as well as an interesting view about the ages old reality that young men pay the price for the adventurism of their elders.
Violet
@Litlebritdifrnt: Apparently California has a similar law. It came to light when Kim Kardashian was still married to the basketball player and got pregnant with Kanye West’s kid. Celeb news sites were reporting that if she had the kid in CA while still married to the NBA guy, he would legally be the father. They managed to come to get divorced before she gave birth so it wasn’t an issue.
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Oh Word Press and Auto Spell Check Correct Thang, just fuck yourself now with a rusty bicycle pump.
To Poopyman: Crowned, not coronated, and yes.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s my understanding she basically becomes the female Philip, in that she gets the title but not the power behind it.
And I still think Liz is trying to figure out how the hell to get Bill on the throne over Chuck. Unfortunately the divorce thing won’t be sufficient.
Litlebritdifrnt
@I am not a kook:
Whatever, these peeps were my friends, I spent quite some time with them. Try following the British Monarchy twitter feed for just a couple of days. Today they tweeted that The Princess Royal (Princess Anne) was visiting a chip shop in England that had just been voted the best in the country. It means absolutely nothing to you of course, but it means absolutely everything to the small business owners who own this chip shop, they have probably spent weeks getting ready for it, they will proudly post pictures of the visit in their shop for years to come. They will talk about it to their kids and their grandkids for years to come.
Imagine you are The Princess Royal and you got up this morning knowing you were going to be visiting a chip shop. How “privileged” do you feel now? Last week the Queen did a dozen visits in Cumbria. Again people will be talking about it for years. These are hard working people folks, I don’t care how many of you claim they are “leaching” off the state, they earn their damn money, and contribute much more to the state than they take. If you ever had any doubt just follow the above Twitter link for a couple of days.
JPL
@WereBear: In New England they have a soda called Moxie which is thick and an ugly color. My dad loved it and she just fit the name. The term moxie was derived from the soda.
Wilson Heath
So do we have a line yet on which priest will be the one to supply the intestines?
raven
@Keith G: I had no idea Kipling was so wired into the UK government.
Yatsuno
@Litlebritdifrnt: Not to mention the vast majority of the Queen’s wealth is inherited, so unless he has a problem with estate law in the UK there you go. I believe she donates her salary to charity still but I’m not certain on that. The royals in any modern country that still has them make up a big part of that country’s fabric. Witness the activities of the Japanese imperial family.
Oh BTW Liz can still deny laws in Britain. It just never happens.
burnspbesq
@JPL:
Sorry to hear that. Hang in there. You have lots of friends here who’ve been through it, and we are all here for you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: Does anyone know why people think she wants to skip Charles? My guess is that William doesn’t want the job for quite a while.
Haydnseek
@Omnes Omnibus: I wasn’t going to make a “little man in the boat” joke, but what the hell………..
Nerdlinger
@Litlebritdifrnt: I just puked a little.
Elizabelle
@JPL:
So sorry. Miss Moxie was a great pet.
Anne Laurie
@JPL: I’m so sorry. Moxie was a brave little soul, and you did a lot to keep her going strong for as long as she did.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: First of all Liz has to get around to looking frail, which doesn’t seem to be happening any time soon.
My understanding behind the rumour is the way l’affaire Diana was handled. The divorce itself wasn’t too bad, but apparently there was also some shabby treatment before and after that Liz didn’t approve of. This is of course all idle gossip so take it for what it is.
Narcissus
So the baby is the antichrist, yes?
burnspbesq
@Yatsuno:
Her representative in Canada pulled some nifty fuckery at the behest of the Dark Lord Harper a few years back.
Omnes Omnibus
@Narcissus: No, that’s my job.
Yatsuno
@burnspbesq: I shall never forgive Michelle Jean for that. I’d still like to know who put the horse in her bed for her to go along with that.
I am not a kook
@Litlebritdifrnt: If you have a personal connection, that’s different, fine.
To me, royalty is basically just descendants of war lords with fucked up ideas about human worth and of sovereignty. Give the Kims of North Korea another 100 years, and they will be worshipped for their traditions too. Maybe even by the time this little George Ringo Paul John Windsor sits on the throne of England (or England and Wales – I doubt Scotland is going hang around).
It’s too bad Europe didn’t get rid of all of them during and after WWI.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I almost got thrown out of the USN for that.
Haydnseek
@Litlebritdifrnt: Here’s a little thought experiment. Suppose the royals did none of the things for which they are so admired. They just sat around in their luxo-digs, completely out of the public eye. They don’t sell newspapers and commemorative plates. They don’t serve in the military. They don’t do a damn thing. By the same token, they don’t do anything even slightly dishonorable, let alone scandalous. They are the absolute picture of rectitude. Would you still feel the same way about them? Would you still defend them so fiercely?
gwangung
@I am not a kook:
I understand the sentiment, but there’s a great, deep seated need for symbols and ceremony in humans. Performing duties of ceremony is useful in and of itself, and it frees up others to do the nuts and bolts of running a state.
Anne Laurie
@Litlebritdifrnt: Semi-related, the first time I ran across Repub coatholder Andy Card was during the Dukakis presidential campaign. Someone asked Mike a generic question about his kids, to which he responded “The girls take after their mother, but I think John is more like me.” Card and his fellow bootlickers ran around screaming HE’S ADOPTED HE’S NOT “REALLY” A DUKAKIS for days — if the internet had been more widely available in 1988 we’d probably still be hearing about Dukakis “falsely claiming” paternity of the kid he’d raised since toddlerhood.
John’s genetic father remarried and produced a kid who grew up to be Jason Chaffetz, teabagger pest. I sometimes if John ever looks at his half-brother’s career and thinks, “Thanks, mom!”
Narcissus
I actually think the Royals do serve a purpose, so long as they have little power as heads of state.
But there is a deep, deep well of tribalism in the human psyche, and if that can be expressed by commemorative plates of Princess Di instead of what we have, that doesn’t seem so bad. The English equivalent to the GOP is basically the EDL, if we’re being honest, and they have none of the clout of the GOP.
Mnemosyne
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Now you’re discussing class vs. legal designation, though. Kate does not have blood relatives in the aristocracy, so from a class standpoint, she’s a commoner, unlike Lady Diana, who was the daughter of an earl.
Under the law, though, everyone except the current holder of a title is legally a commoner, which has certain ramifications for stuff like who gets to run for the House of Commons and who’s in the House of Lords and suchlike.
@Poopyman:
Yes, because Kate can become Queen Consort without having to be of royal blood. Queen Elizabeth is Queen Regnant, and Philip is her Consort. William will (eventually) be King Regnant, and Kate can be promoted to his Queen Consort. I don’t think there’s any such thing as King Consort, which is why Philip is a mere Prince Consort to Lilibet.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anne Laurie: small, strange world. I saw Chaffetz on TeeVee the other day lamenting that the they are forced, FORCED, by the wicked Obama to keep holding their scandal hunt hearings. And to think he’s almost certain to take Orrin Hatch’s Senate seat. Whoda thunk Orrin Hatch could look good by comparison.
Keith G
@raven: He was, for good and/or ill, the voice of the empire at that era. When I was in grade school, I came across his poem “If” It became a touchstone for me.
Then later I studied “White Man’s Burden” and felt as if I needed to take a shower and scrub the ick off my soul.
I still like “If” even though it is unapologetically male centric.
Origuy
Tony Robinson (Baldrick on Blackadder, now Sir Tony) did a show called Britain’s Real Monarch awhile back claiming that Edward IV had been a bastard and that the real heir should have been his brother George, Duke of Clarence. They traced Clarence’s descendants down to an agronomist living in the Australian Outback. His mates still called him a Pommy, but he was a Republican (in the not-Royalist sense.)
raven
@Keith G:
If you can face triumph and disaster
and treat these two imposters just the same
I used that when I ran kids sports programs and tried to convince coaches and parents that winning and losing was bullshit for pre-adolescents.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Haydnseek:
No, because that is not the case and has never been the case. The Royals are not the Kardashians. The Royals actually serve a fucking purpose.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yatsuno: I don’t agree with this. I think the Queen would be horrified at the idea of “skipping” a generation. She grew up with the horrors of the Abdication (1936) and I think the very last thing she would ever want to do is mess with the line of succession.
I also think that William would/does not want the throne a minute before he legitimately inherits it, which I’m sure he hopes is many years from now.
In the past few weeks, the Queen of the Netherlands has abdicated, and just yesterday the King of the Belgians abdicated in favour of his son. Turns the monarchy into a corporation. They may be cousins and dear friends, but I think Queen Elizabeth II does NOT want to model herself on them.
raven
@Origuy: I had a buddy from Wollongong who railed about the bleedin pommy’s all the time!
Yatsuno
@Keith G: Kipling, like all of us, was a creature of his age. The idea of women having an expanded role in society was several decades in the future yet. He was still quite the enlightened thinker.
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s rumour. It keeps the tabloid writers out of the dole queue. The fact is the way Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II is going this decision is at least a decade in the future. Possibly even further.
burnspbesq
@I am not a kook:
Perhaps it would be wise to ask the citizens of the 16 countries nominally ruled by the British crown what they think. Let’s see, the Aussies had a referendum in 1999, and voted 55-45 to keep ol’ Liz around.
raven
@Yatsuno: He seemed to be really hot on getting his son in the war until he disappeared from the face of the earth after hoisting his near blind ass over the top with a whistle and a revolver.
Haydnseek
@Litlebritdifrnt: We know it’s not the case, and never has been. I was posing a hypothetical; a scenario in which they served no fucking purpose whatsoever. My question stands.
I am not a kook
@gwangung:
It’s truly a wonder how all these other countries manage! Like, say, the United States. Americans gave that idea of “nobility” the swift kick it deserved back in the day and should be proud of it. You still need to denounce any titles of nobility to become a US citizen by naturalization. This is a good thing.
Eric U.
I assume that the British royals know that if they start misbehaving in a serious way that they will be out the door. I always thought it was the duty of all good Americans to be somewhat hostile to the idea of a royal family, but they seem mostly harmless. Certainly better than our ruling class.
Spaghetti Lee
Hmmm…
Edward Cullen Windsor.
John Cole Windsor.
Kanye Kardashian Windsor.
Metta World Peace Windsor.
Nah, I got nothing.
Yatsuno
@Spaghetti Lee: Maybe it’ll work better with Mountbatten…
Anne Laurie
@Keith G: I read Stalky & Co when I was seven, which was a rollicking boy’s adventure when first published and a history of Imperial child abuse by the time I found it. A few years later I read “Without Benefit of Clergy“, which cemented my conviction that Kipling was a far more sensitive writer than people who’ve only been exposed to his Poet Lauriate boilerplate will ever know.
Spaghetti Lee
@Eric U.:
This is kinda my opinion. You want to talk about the deleterious effects of a ruling aristocracy? Let’s start the discussion with the fucking Waltons, Kochs, and Bushes, and then move on to the mostly-ceremonial-celebrity royal family.
Liberty60
@Litlebritdifrnt: Of all the wealthy entitled people in the entire world, I think the Royals have aquitted themselves by far the best.
Compared to any given Wall Street MOU or Beltway lobbyist, I know perfectly well whose fucking head should be on a pike.
Liberty60
@Spaghetti Lee: Hear hear.
This is why the Tea Partiers always want to reference the 1776 revolution- they know that they themselves are the current Royalists. That goes double for the Confederates- their entire worldview is based on aristocracy.
raven
Wonder what Frank Gallagher thinks?
Litlebritdifrnt
@Liberty60: What you just said. Twice. With sprinkles.
Mnemosyne
@I am not a kook:
We have our president act as both head of government and head of state, and then people bitch and moan about how it’s undignified for him to be doing head of state things like calling winning basketball teams to congratulate them or making state visits to other countries because he has more important things to do.
I read a pretty interesting book called K Blows Top! about Nikita Khrushchev’s visit to the US. It actually caused a major diplomatic dilemma because technically Khrushchev was the head of government for the Soviet Union, not the head of state, so the US State Department was balking at some of the ceremonies Khrushchev wanted that they generally reserved for heads of state. It’s a pretty interesting book.
Keith G
@I am not a kook:
Sad to say that the jury is still out on us. Are we managing? Humans are not that evolved. We seem to really need rallying points – concepts that act as dark matter that hold diverse actors somewhat together connected by a notion of common good.
Our head of state is a political actor and as we have seen for some time now, that position seems less able to carry it’s weight as a unifying national symbol.
SiubhanDuinne
@Anne Laurie: Cut my young reading teeth on Stalky, Just-So, and Jungle Books. The imperial poems came later.
The prophet Nostradumbass
I think they should call the sprog either Gerry or Ian.
raven
Martin Bashir is bashing the shit out of us vis-a-vis the UK and disparity. Hayes want to know if we’d take the monarchy if we had universal health care!
burnspbesq
@Spaghetti Lee:
Edward Snowden Windsor?
*ducks
Omnes Omnibus
@I am not a kook: Don’t pretend we don’t have an aristocracy here. It’s hereditary, but for the most part it doesn’t even make a pretense of noblesse oblige.
Nerdlinger
@Yatsuno: Except he was preceded by a generation of strong feminists, like Mill and Bessie Rayner Parkes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@burnspbesq: I raise you Glenn Greenwald Windsor
or whatever toss of boggle cubes and refrigerator magnet poetry Angelina Jolie and Sarah Palin and Willard Romney use to pick their kids’ names
Robert Sneddon
@Yatsuno: The Royal fortunes (land, mostly and rents) are locked up in trusts and assorted legalisms so inheritance taxes aren’t really applicable, much like any of the American aristocratic ruling families (the Kennedys, Bushes, McCains, Rockefellers etc.). As for the current or future reigning Monarch they could probably intervene in British politics, once. After that they would be forced to abdicate and our not-a-constitution would be altered to prevent it ever happening again.
burnspbesq
Way, way OT, but Dillon Gee of the Mets has a no-no through six.
raven
Hayes has the Johnson and Johnson heir on. He made Born Rich.
SiubhanDuinne
If anyone is seriously interested in a good contemporary analysis of the role of the Crown in present-day Britain and the Commonwealth, I can heartily recommend Her Majesty: The Court of Queen Elizabeth II by Robert Hardman. Just finished it a couple of days ago and was very impressed. It’s very far from being just another royal celebrity bio.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Robert Sneddon: the Mittet Romney’s have IIRC over a hundred million dollars in a tax sheltered trust, beyond the senior generations hundreds of millions and all the social capital that comes with that kind of money and political connection
Chris
@raven:
Affordable health care for millions and all I have to do in exchange for turning one family into a glorified symbol with no political power? Um, yes, please.
@Omnes Omnibus:
This. From the slave owners to the robber barons to today’s 1%, we’ve always had an aristocracy in fact if not in name.
ETA: and not only that, but our aristocracy’s always loved adopting the trappings of the official European aristocracy. Southern slave owners took pride in their turf being “the most European part of America” and in imitating British aristocracy. Gilded Age robber barons married their daughters off to noble and royal houses in Europe. Etc. They’ve never even really pretended to be anything but the American Versailles.
burnspbesq
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Naah, won’t work. Whenever I think “Prince Glen,” I see Sally Draper’s creepy friend from Mad Men.
raven
@Chris: Well there you have it.
raven
@burnspbesq: Freddie took care of that shit.
Haydnseek
@Mnemosyne: A very entertaining book. When I was a kid, I stood on the sidewalk with my father in front of a liquor store in Pacoima when K’s motorcade went by. They had a scheduling problem, as described in the book, and were just driving around because they didn’t have anything planned that day. K was in an open car, very easy to see. The book confirmed our later recollection of events, right down to the day of the week and the route of the motorcade.
burnspbesq
@Haydnseek:
What was Kruschev doing in Pacoima, visiting Richie Valens’ grave?
Nerdlinger
@Chris:
Yes, but one doesn’t follow from the other, and you know that. And judging by knuckleheads in their parliament, it wouldn’t surprise me if we ended up with a better healthcare system than theirs in a few decades.
Which is sort of besides the point. Can you make a legitimate argument for a hereditary monarchy? I sure can’t.
raven
@burnspbesq: Bases loaded, one out and there he goes. . .
Mnemosyne
@Haydnseek:
I thought the story about his train-whistle stop in Santa Barbara was really fascinating — apparently politicians are politicians, whether they’re elected or not, because K absolutely loved wading into the crowd to kiss babies and slap backs, just like a congressman up for re-election.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nerdlinger:
I don’t think anyone was advocating adopting the system.
Haydnseek
@burnspbesq: According to the book, they were just killing time until the beginning of the scheduled meetings, etc. later in the evening. We lived in LA at the time, and were visiting family friends. If Khruschev had been listening to La Bamba………….
PurpleGirl
Reply to #127 – cckids:
You know that yesterday those last two Mythbusters kittens were adopted and adopted together. So, if you follow Foster Dad John, do you follow any of the other kitten cams (Cassie in CT, Margo, Sarah, Shelly in British Columbia, Paul in Vancouver)?
Gian
@Emma:
tough to go out so far on a limb for him. When he was born on third with nobody out and the ’27 Yankees at bat.
we fought two wars in the states with that nation to be free of it’s royalty. I only wish we didn’t have such a longing to worship them again like good fucking subjects.
raven
@Gian: Aw bullshit..
burnspbesq
@raven:
That was nice work by Gee to get out of trouble.
Nerdlinger
@Omnes Omnibus: Of course not. Just advocating for the status quo with ridiculous arguments about how our vampire-squids are bigger than theirs. A bad argument, in and of itself considering how infested their government is with Eton grads.
But I’d be totally for John Cleese as head of state.
raven
@burnspbesq: What a weak AB that last one was. What was he bitching about?
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
I have a great story about some Kiwis railing against pommy bastards and everyone else they could think of after imbibing amazing quantities of “bih.” warm.
Too boring for the blog so email binhthuy71atyahoo.com.
burnspbesq
@raven:
Tough to come off the bench cold against a guy with a nasty change.
Robert Sneddon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Tax sheltered trusts insulate the capital from the recipients of the trust fund payouts. They have no control over the fund hence they can’t be dinged because they never inherit it, they only (only!) get payouts for being born into the family. Liz can’t sell Sandringham, for example although it is a family property it’s in trust so when she kicks the bucket it can’t be taken for death duties/inheritance tax. Same with the Romnettes, the Kennedys, the Kerrys etc., the trust money is handled at a remove from the beneficiaries so they can never inherit it, just receive payments from it during their own lifetime. They may have their own money, enough to trigger inheritance tax when they do kick off but the big lumps are well protected from the IRS.
The Waltons are different — they own the Wal-mart stores outright and they are very reluctant to give up control to a trust so they are facing inheritance tax bills in the region of tens of billions of dollars over the next twenty or thirty years. This is why they’ve pumped lots of cash into political efforts to kill inheritance taxes, aka death taxes as their spinmeisters put it. Just think of all the small family farms! Sob sob sob.
Villago Delenda Est
@Spaghetti Lee:
One of the Koch brothers actually said that his problem with Obama is that Obama is an egalitarian.
Just mull that for a moment. The founding political rhetorical document of this country is all about egalitarianism, and this guy’s problem with Obama is just that. Jefferson wanted a severe estate tax for a reason…he didn’t want this country to develop an aristocracy based on generations of accumulated wealth.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gian: I’m pretty indifferent to the British royals, I see this as an excuse to snark on them and the media excess around them, but I’ll take just about any ally I can get in the fight against climate change. That said, I’d rather people worship them than the likes of Jamie Dimon, Donald Trump, or even Zuckerberg and the rest of the Silicon Valley crew.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nerdlinger: Actually, It’s not really my place to advocate any form of government for the British. They same to like what they have, so good for them. I don’t want it, but then I was born and raised in the US.
burnspbesq
@Robert Sneddon:
Nope. Wal-Mart is a public company. The Walton family collectively owns 48 percent of the outstanding shares, which is enough for effective control but far from “outright” ownership.
Also too, we inherited this strange gizmo from the English common law called the Rule Against Perpetuities. Unless it’s been abrogated by statute, any trusts that hold shares of Wal-Mart stock will terminate someday.
r€nato
@Litlebritdifrnt: carrying out royal duties = work?
Yeah try telling that to the guys making their daily bread roofing houses in 120 degree heat, or waiters working at Denny’s.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: in the mail
Nerdlinger
@Omnes Omnibus: But it’s our god-given right and duty to spread FREEDOM to other countries. Or are you a FREEDOM-hating liberal?
@Villago Delenda Est: Well, it’s not like they’re particularly fond of Jefferson.
Omnes Omnibus
@r€nato: Work varies.
I am not a kook
I have a sad at Americans of all people defending the institution of (especially British) monarchy for feel good reasons.
If you really believe and defend the idea that some people are better because they were born as heirs to successful warlords and their cronies and thus own the sovereignty of a country, I don’t know what to say. Not a very democratic or republican outlook. They are reminders of a human past caste system that is best left to history.
Waltons or Kochs or Bushes aren’t even close. They may themselves think their shit don’t stink, but they don’t have the force of hundreds of years of tradition (and arms) behind them. Yet. Oh yes, I do also support a very high inheritance tax.
I believe there is good reason the head of US government is called “Mr. President”, not “Your Highness”. I have to admit, if I ever got an audience with the Dalai Lama, that “Your Holiness” thing might just die in my peasant throat too.
smintheus
Not really relevant to my life unless they name him Biscuit. That way it’d always be King Biscuit Time, which I could get behind.
raven
@I am not a kook: So you are sad, who cares?
Chris
@Nerdlinger:
No, but since the question was about a trade-off between two British institutions and not a comparison of the broader systems overall, I stand by what I said. To clarify, a monarchy reduced to what it is in Britain (or most European countries nowadays) is utterly harmless.
Robert Sneddon
@I am not a kook: There was a time when the US President was officially titled “Your Excellency”. Egalitarianism and all that. BTW HMtQ aka Liz is titled “Your Majesty” as a reigning monarch. Lesser Royalty like Phil the Greek, Charlie, Randy Andy etc. are “Your Highness”.
It doesn’t matter if you support a very high inheritance tax, your ruling aristocrats will not pass it into law — could you see hereditary Senator Jay Rockefeller IV voting to support such a bill? OTOH Liz has no say at all on the subject of tax levels, laws or anything else in UK politics.
burnspbesq
@I am not a kook:
You’ve made your point, such as it is.
Lurking Canadian
@Mnemosyne: You’re right on the narrow legal question (under primogeniture, only the heir presumptive was a nobleman), so Lady Diana was officially a commoner with a courtesy title.
However, there’s no reason for that to have been considered exceptional when she married Chuck. Princes marry daughters of noblemen all the time. Only under very unusual circumstances (oldest daughter, no brothers) would those women have been “noble” under the laws you cite, and in those rare cases, there’s every reason why Lord Daddy wouldn’t *want* oldest, female heirs apparent marrying the prince, since that would lead the family’s estates to revert to the crown.
Emma
@Gian: The next time you complain about a republican deliberately misinterpreting anything a democrat says I will just point to your comment.
It isn’t a matter of worship. He could sit back and be a figurehead and basically do what is expected of him and nothing more. Instead he’s pitched in to help in some of the most difficult social and environmental issues of the time. But you’re a dyed-in-the-bigotry yankee doodle dandy so you can’t even give credit where credit is due because your biases are more important.
I’ve heard it all before whenever I listen to conservative talk radio.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
Or not. Binhthuy71atyahoo.com
Gotta get all of those h’s in the former.
Fort Geek
Cornelius Murphy. Anyone who’s read Robert Rankin’s books will understand that anyone by that name is the Stuff of Legends.
Spaghetti Lee
@I am not a kook:
Who said ‘better’? I think you’re misinterpreting people.
I’ll put it this way: On the premise that there will always be some form of class in society, be it inherited or purchased (or both), and that some people will always have more wealth or power than others, I’d rather those people not be complete dickheads. And I don’t know about arms, but the truly powerful corporate families can have entire communities, even entire states, by the economic short and curlies, and they play them as pawns just like the nastiest monarchs throughout history have done with their holdings. I’m still not seeing why I should prefer the Waltons to the Windsors. (The current generation of Waltons inherited their way into the 99.99th percentile, for the record, so that argument’s out)
Besides, it’s not like the royal family has significant political power-the UK is a parliamentary democracy with a ceremonial head of state, not an absolute monarchy. So I get the Yankee-pride, sic semper aristos thing, but the aristos in this case aren’t really…threatening? Not like America’s corporate bosses are to its own people.
Fort Geek
Ooooh. Another good name: Thatcher, after the dearly departed Maggie.
(I can already hear the beautifully-constructed invective from Frankie Boyle)
Gian
@Emma:
mirror.
and that’s deliberately not calling you a conservative radio parrot.
your own biases are showing.
I have roughly the same contempt for inherited power and wealth as Andrew Carnegie.
He was a conservative, does that mean I am one?
I will not coo and ahh over an infant because it had the good luck to be born royalty.
glad it appears to be a healthy mom and kid, and good for the UK if they love it.
He ain’t my king infant.
Tehanu
@I am not a kook:
I don’t think anyone here is defending the idea that they are better. But if the UK system works and the heirs of the warlords are now the symbol of the whole country, what do you care?
smedley the uncertain
@Anya: I know. It’s awful!
It’s knocked the Hilton, Lohan, Kardashian trash right off the front page.
I am not a kook
@Spaghetti Lee: Monarchy and aristocracy codify in law that some humans are more worthy than others. I have a problem with that. That’s all. Threatening or not doesn’t even come into it.
I will conclude my republican trolling by offering Ms Middleton, her husband and baby the best of luck. I don’t hate them, they didn’t make the system. They should name the baby after Nelson Mandela, if Oliver Cromwell sticks in their craw.
I am not a kook
@Tehanu: replace “better” with “better suited for positions of authority” if you must.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@I am not a kook: one thing none of that crew is short on, is luck.
BillinGlendaleCA
@I am not a kook: I was thinking John Oliver would be a grand name, though not as a tribute to the current Daily Show host.
Jebediah
@JPL:
So sorry.
Gian
@I am not a kook:
Cromwell was a genocidal maniac if you ask the Irish
Gian
@raven:
wow. what argument.
please clarify. when did we NOT fight a revolution against King George III?
or a war of 1812?
you think the people who died fighting the British monarchy would cotton to going gaga over it?
IOW bullshit right back atacha
that or fucking agitate to rejoin the commonwealth.