Will one of these European powerhouses take home all the points?
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by Randinho| 179 Comments
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Will one of these European powerhouses take home all the points?
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Morzer
My bet is on Spain, but given the standard of refereeing so far, I hesitate to go further than that.
Alex S.
I want the result to reflect the status of these two teams. 3-2 Spain.
raven
Not directed at Mozer but is this whole month going to be taken up with bitching about the officiating? I had to get off my beloved Illini Basketball game thread because that was all it was.
MattR
In response to Tommy’s request in the last thread – here is a deadspin link about how to stream every game.
raven
Well, that’s what the announcer started with so I guess that answers my question.
West of the Rockies
I fast-read that as Spain vs. a The Neanderthals… That does create an amusing visual.
Morzer
@West of the Rockies:
You’ve obviously heard of Nigel de Jong
Suffern ACE
@West of the Rockies: Neandertals are better at rugby. It’s kind of their national sport.
Calouste
@Suffern ACE:
I’m pretty sure Neanderthals think rugby has too many rules and play an ur-version of Aussie rules.
Alex S.
You’ve got to exploit these opportunities against Spain…
Tony J
Oooh, he should have planted that one. Can’t afford to waste chances that clearcut when you play team of Spain’s quality.
? Martin
Yay ESPN3. I still contend that the most enjoyable place to watch any soccer match is in a Santa Ana laundromat (tuned to Univision, natch), but my Spanish is shit, so I welcome an english commentary for this match.
raven
Goddamn it the switched from 2 to ESPN and I missed the first 10 minutes!
raven
dupe
? Martin
Yay, Obama!
Linsday McCain must be having a good cry right about now.
Tony J
@raven:
You didn’t miss too much, the teams are only just starting to limber up and get speedy.
burnspbesq
Aston Villa in da haus. Ron Vlaar saves the Dutch bacon.
Randinho
I see Nigel de Jong is picking up where he left off . . .
raven
I’m sorry but these are some wimpy motherfuckers.
MattR
@raven: I had the same problem but I caught it a bit quicker and only missed 5 min.
? Martin
I’d like to see Netherlands win this one. Nothing against Spain, I just like the Dutch.
Tony J
What’s Dutch for “Spend the next few minutes flattening anyone in white”? Because it’s pretty clear someone just shouted it.
burnspbesq
He’s big, he’s red, he puts it in Row Zed, he’s Diego Costa.
raven
Fucker can’t tie his own shoes!
raven
I see that “HEY” in Spanish is “HEY”!
PaulW
@raven:
reminds me I gotta go buy new shoelaces.
Tony J
Sweep the leg!
raven
Awright, he didn’t grab his knee!
burnspbesq
Costa did well to sell the call.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
THAT was a bad call.
? Martin
Well, I guess we ran out of warnings.
Tony J
Xavi Alonso, the coolest cat in football. Why we ever sold him to Real Madrid when he didn’t really want to go I don’t know.
? Martin
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Eh, there was definitely an effort to take Costa down, and Costa helped it succeed. Could go either way on that one.
humboldtblue
The Dutch are one of the most skilled teams in the world and they are playing like a third division English club team with brutal and ugly soccer
humboldtblue
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Nah, that was good enough for a penalty
burnspbesq
One thing that casual fans tend to overlook is that Spain has tremendous team speed. When they turn it over, they get numbers behind the ball in a serious hurry.
Randinho
@humboldtblue: If Johan Cruyff were dead he’d be spinning in his grave.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@? Martin: @humboldtblue:
He tripped on a foot that was a foot behind his foot!
(ETA: And I’m pulling for Spain to win the whole thing- if the US can’t.)
raven
@Randinho: And that on a dial-up!
Morbo
@? Martin:
I… what?
? Martin
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Like I said, he helped it along, but that foot was out there for a reason. He can’t exactly complain about getting the result he was hoping for.
? Martin
@Morbo: Yeah, that’s some grade-A gibberish there.
raven
@? Martin: Did you know he was a POW?
humboldtblue
Between Barca, Real Madrid and the national team I know more about and have watched more matches involving these Spanish players than any team since I watched my first WC in 1986
humboldtblue
@Randinho: In preparation I was watching some you tube vids of his playing days, what a stride he had
Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim
Spain and the Netherlands? It’s the Eighty Years’ War Rematch!
jl
Hope this contest does not rouse memories of the eighty years war.
Remember 1648! Go Batavians!
Tony J
How the feck did Silva not score? Really should be 2-0.
Tony J
And they pay the price. What a ball, what a header. Game on.
humboldtblue
Van Persie, only Van Persie makes that play
? Martin
That was really lovely.
humboldtblue
@Tony J: What a pass
Alex S.
Wonderful goal. The Dutch apparently think that their strikers can run faster than the spanish defenders.
Tony J
@humboldtblue:
When they’re not at war with each other the Dutch can play some really lovely football.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@humboldtblue:
Ever seen the Philosophy Football site? They sell t-shirts with footy, philosophy and lefty politics, some a blend of the different themes. Some day I’m going to buy the Cruyff shirt…And the George Best, Eric Cantona and Monty Python shirts, too!
? Martin
Let’s hope with that Netherlands can have a 2nd half without mugging everybody.
Morzer
Well, at last a game worth watching after the pedestrian lumberings of Brazil and Mexico.
jl
@Morbo:
@? Martin:
@raven:
McCain has consistently maintained that we should have troops stationed in Iraq for an indefinite time, like South Korea.
He has said consistently that if we are just there, that will do something to solve something to keep something under control.
And, BTW, this all can be done without any US troops getting involved, or hurt, or killed, or I presume dirty or sweaty or in any tricky position like deciding whether to shoot some insurgent or terrorist or maybe random Iraqis that happen by their vicinity.
That seems to be his plan. I am not a military person, never served, maybe that is why I can follow neither the logic nor the details.
humboldtblue
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I’ll see it now. If you haven’t seen the history of the “Kop” (Liverpool’s famous cheering section) I can’t recommend it highly enough. It’s both the history of the clubs rise to dominance and the love of those teams by their fans, eminently enjoyable
humboldtblue
@Tony J: That’s what bugs the hell out of me. When they play football well they are tough but also precise and clinical and can dominate in a way that keeps you on the edge of the seat
M.C. Simon Milligan
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): “Hegel is arguing that the reality is merely an a priori adjunct of non-naturalistic ethics, Kant via the categorical imperative is holding that ontologically it exists only in the imagination, and Marx is claiming it was offside.”
One of the funniest things, short of the Killer Joke, ever created by man.
? Martin
@jl: His basic premise is that nobody else can be trusted to run their country, that the US must have a footprint everywhere, all the time. The sun must never set on the American Empire.
ralphb
@Morbo: It seems McGrumpy forgot a few hundred casualties there.
? Martin
Man, that goal doesn’t get any less pretty with subsequent viewings.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@humboldtblue:
Last weekend I watched the 30 For 30 special on Hillsborough. Harrowing shit, even knowing the outcome.
Got a link for yours? I’d like to check it out, even if I do pull for that team in red that plays north of Liverpool.
@M.C. Simon Milligan:
Yeah, THIS!
Punchy
Do they call themselves The Hollandaise, The Netherlanders, or The No-Blemish Flemish? Flams? TooLippers?
humboldtblue
German Ambassador explains the meaningless of the World Cup as only the German Ambassador can. Colbert is now an international treasure
Tony J
@humboldtblue:
They’ve been ‘physical’ in this game, but haven’t descended to anything like the brutal, bad-tempered thuggery of four years ago. They’ll continue to let the Spanish ‘know they’re there’ every now and again, but they appear to be more interested in actually playing football this time around.
humboldtblue
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): There’s an ITV or BBC expose that is even better than the 30 for 30. I watched that during the last memorial, I was openly weeping
Amir Khalid
@Punchy:
The Oranje, because they play in orange shirts.
ETA: And the Oranje are in front! 2-1!
Tony J
Great goal by Robben, but damn, what is up with the Spanish defence?
Linnaeus
Oranje!!!!
humboldtblue
@Punchy: They call themselves “Oranja” and they drink, if they are smart, Oranjeboom beer, which I love, not sure if they do, but I do.
Punchy
@Amir Khalid: Unis look blue on my TV
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Jesus, did you think Robben was going to take it to the outside? When has he EVER done that?
Randinho
@Tony J: They miss Puyol.
Alex S.
@Amir Khalid:
I actually wonder if there’s a relation to the House of Orange.
The spanish defense really has problems with long, high passes from midfield.
Amir Khalid
@Punchy:
Well, orange is the traditional colour. I guess they’re playing in their away strip today.
Randinho
It’s funny: that’s Robben’s classic move: control the ball and move to the center and shoot. Pique should have known that.
Tommy
@jl: I am a military brat. I was often stationed in places where it was like 95% white folks. But went to school with a number of Asian Americans. Know why? We have bases in Japan and South Korea. American service members fall in love. Get married. They came back here. That clearly isn’t a bad thing in the least, but a permanent force someplace, well they need to ponder what that means. You have to staff said place.
Now I am still near a large military base and most of my friends and family serve. Japan, South Korea, heck Germany are seen as good posts for younger folks. You know the government pays you to see another part of the world. Not sure how many folks would like to staff Iraq.
humboldtblue
@Alex S.: It is all about the House of Orange
Tony J
Oooh, if there’s better footage of that ‘forward nod’ by Diego Costa he’s going to be sitting out a few games.
The last thing the Spanish need now is to lose a player, especially a striker. They need to get their foot on the ball and pin the Dutch back or they’re going to concede more.
? Martin
Agh! I missed that goal!
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Randinho:
As the Men In Blazers have pointed out many times, Robben creates a hypnotic vortex with his left hand that causes defenders to play him as if he’s going to go to the outside.
Tony J
@Randinho:
Yup. A man with a head so wide strikers couldn’t even see the goal.
And again, Van Persie should never have been allowed to get a shot off from there.
burnspbesq
Oh my. Didn’t see this coming.
Casillas has been pretty bad on two of the three Dutch goals.
humboldtblue
Wow, Dutch killing that back line
Amir Khalid
@Alex S.:
The connection is obvious; the House of Orange-Nassau is after all the Dutch royal family..
Tony J
Bloody Hell. Game over. But given last night’s decision against the Croats that looked a lot like a foul on Casillas to clear the way for the header.
And Silva offside. Maybe not so over, this is Spain after all.
? Martin
Well, that was considerably less lovely, but I think that’s going to seal it.
Amir Khalid
3-1 to the Nether Regions. The game is done and dusted.
Randinho
That was a clear foul on Casillas. Goal should have been disallowed.
humboldtblue
Goddamn I hate offside called in the box
morfydd
Oh dear. A round of schnapps per goal didn’t sound dangerous… it’s soccer after all…
burnspbesq
@morfydd:
Chile – Australia will give you an opportunity to sleep it off.
humboldtblue
@morfydd: No doubt, because Spain is far from dead and the Dutch could go a man down if they aren’t careful
burnspbesq
@Randinho:
There was contact, but Casillas had mis-read the cross so egregiously that the contact had nothing to do with the goal. Good non-call.
raven
bbye
Alex S.
@Amir Khalid:
But in what order? And did the name of the royal house have any connection to the color orange? Are the shirts orange because of the House of Orange or because orange is the color of the dutch?
Hmm, this is the end of the spanish era…
Lee
That was embarrassing.
Onkel Fritze
That result might just set up a Brazil-Spain game for the next round.
Shit, 4-1 now.
Maybe going to be Brazil-Chile.
morfydd
I die now…
humboldtblue
Now it’s embarassing, sheesh, Iker, way to go Oranje!
Randinho
Victor Valdes (I know he’s injured) wouldn’t have screwed that one up. Sheesh.
Tony J
Bloody hell, Casillas, what was that? 4-1, Spain in all kinds of doo doo. Wonder if goal difference is going to play a part at the end of this group.
burnspbesq
Now there’s a world-class brain-fart.
Randinho
@burnspbesq: I thought the contact was more severe than the one against Julio Cesar yesterday. Agree to disagree.
Calouste
@Alex S.:
The name of the royal house is derived from the Principality of Orange in France.
humboldtblue
@Randinho: Casillas hasn’t played all season, that was rust at work
GR
@burnspbesq:
You beat me to it. Casillas had no business being bailed out on that misplay.
Lee
The problem with passing it back to the keeper is their foot skills are not the best on the team.
? Martin
Did not expect this to turn into a rout. Kids, never make it too easy on the goalie. 80 percent of success is showing up.
Leeds man
If (my memory of) history teaches us anything, early Dutch success spells inevitable Dutch exit in clouds of rancour.
The van Persie goal was a thing of beauty.
burnspbesq
@Randinho:
It was, for sure. But Casillas was hopelessly out of position, and he wasn’t getting back even if there had been no contact.
Alex S.
@Calouste:
Thanks, I didn’t know!
droog
There’s something cringingly addictive about a team that can’t get its defensive line to react to events in real time. I’ve seen dead goldfish fight a flushing toilet with more success.
Randinho
@Lee: That should be something they practice. It’s inexcusable.
morfydd
@burnspbesq:
that’s at midnight here, so I think I’ll pass.
It’s a remarkably better game than Mexico-Cameroon…
burnspbesq
It pains me that I now have to hate Fabregas.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Wow. It just gets worse.
? Martin
@Lee: True, but a World Cup goalie’s foot skills should be better than a high-school striker’s. Not as much as in auto racing, but rain is still an equalizer in soccer. I remember many games that we had no right winning thanks to the challenges of playing in the rain.
Alex S.
Possible final Netherlands vs Belgium?
Robben has the potential to become the player of the tournament.
Lee
@Randinho: True. But sometimes it becomes very obvious footwork is not their strong suite. That pass was probably too hard but the keeper should have been able to recover.
Holy shit….5-1
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Arjen Robben just sort of runs around with the ball until all of the defenders fall down, then scores.
? Martin
Wow.
Calouste
@Alex S.:
The Dutch Father of the Fatherland, William the Silent, was a German prince who inherited a French title, grew up in Belgium and then worked for the king of Spain.
Amir Khalid
5-1. If second place in the group comes down to goal difference, I don’t see Spain getting into the knockout stages.
Tony J
Frigging Nora. The best Spain can hope for now is to keep it in single figures. Outpaced, outmuscled, out of the tournament if they play this way against Chile.
Blame it on the rain.
burnspbesq
New Spanish theme song:
When Black Friday comes,
Gonna dig myself a hole,
Gonna lay down in it
til I satisfy my soul.
Lee
@? Martin: My kids play here in North Texas. We get rain & cold at the same time.
A wet soccer ball at 35 degrees is like a &$#($&$ hockey puck.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Randinho: I agree that the contact was worse than yesterday’s, but that goal shouldn’t have been disallowed. I thought the ref shafted Croatia multiple times yesterday, to the tune of about 2.5 net goals.
burnspbesq
Marca and AS will make for interesting reading tomorrow.
morfydd
wow. I was in a public viewing in Hamburg 4 years ago, and after the rampant thuggery the whole crowd turned against the Netherlands. this game is pure revenge, and while they’re still thugs, they’re playing brilliantly.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
If I didn’t mention it in the WC group round preview, The Netherlands is going to crap out in the first game of the knockout round.
schrodinger's cat
deleted, wrong thread.
Onkel Fritze
@Randinho
Told you you underestimated the Dutch. To be fair, did NOT see that coming.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Uhm, aren’t their supposed to be two teams playing in a soccer match?
Lee
Anyone have any mobile steaming sites for the world cup?
burnspbesq
As bad as Casillas has been today, that last save on Robben was genius.
raven
@Lee: see the previous thread
burnspbesq
@Lee:
WatchESPN app, if you have cable and your subscription includes ESPN.
? Martin
@Lee: Yeah, they hurt. You lose your footing. The ball plays really funny with water on it, it doesn’t roll well. It’s fucking hard to hold onto for the goalie (though I imagine that’s improved a lot on the last 25 years). It’s just different enough to throw everyones rhythm off. And it can be pretty damn miserable to play in. Doubly so if you’re losing. Credit to the Dutch for keeping their head in it.
? Martin
Man, Spain needs to look back on these last 20 minutes and be thankful it’s not 8-1.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@morfydd: I don’t know that the Dutch are playing all that much more thuggish than the Spanish are. It’s been a brutal game all around. If it were hockey, we would have declared, “These two teams don’t like each other.”
burnspbesq
And Fernando Torres fails to convert a gilt-edged opportunity. Not like we’ve ever seen that before.
Randinho
@burnspbesq: Again, agree to disagree, but point taken..
Randinho
@burnspbesq: Agreed. Bacary Sagna as well.
Morzer
@burnspbesq:
Might just be time for a completely black front page with 5-1 in white. What an absolute annihilation the Dutch inflicted.
Randinho
@burnspbesq: Indeed.
Amir Khalid
@? Martin:
That was true of the old leather footballs, as I remember. But in recent decades, they’ve been made of synthetic materials that are much less prone to retain water in wet conditions. (Well, so adidas says, and it’s been the official ball supplier for the World Cup since the 1960s or something like that.)
Randinho
@Onkel Fritze: Point taken. I don’t think anyone saw that coming.
Morzer
@Amir Khalid:
The old leather footballs were a real danger to life and limb when it rained. You could concuss yourself heading one of those things, especially if it came down on you from a great height.
droog
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
The stats at the Guardian say Spain had 4 fouls and Netherlands 16. I don’t think accounting for referee bias would tilt that scale back to level.
Anyway, congratulations to Spain for achieving 57% possession, their most coveted goal. And congratulations to the Netherlands for achieving their goal of actual, bonafide goals. Ten shots on target against Spain’s two.
burnspbesq
Headline at marca.com
“Humiliacion mundial.”
Morzer
@Randinho:
I agree with you on this one. I thought the two Dutch players went in on Casillas with little or no interest in going for the ball.
Morzer
@burnspbesq:
And the words “disaster” and “humiliated” in the opening lines. Oh and “tactical disarray” which seems almost an understatement.
Randinho
I really hate to see Nigel de Jong smiling.
burnspbesq
According to AS, the last time Spain gave up five or more was in a 6-2 loss to Scotland in 1963.
Morzer
@Randinho:
On aesthetic grounds alone, it ought to be illegal. Think of the children, FIFA!
burnspbesq
AS: “la peor pesadilla del campeón” (champion’s worst nightmare).
burnspbesq
L’Equipe wins the headline contest.
“Les Pays-Bas Ridiculisent L’Espagne.”
Morzer
@burnspbesq:
I wonder whether the Dutch newspapers are going to discuss the topic of candy acquisition from children.
Once again, my life decision never to bet on sport is justified.
Morzer
@burnspbesq:
“Brilliant Holland rout Spain” mutters the Guardian in its reserved British way.
humboldtblue
Other than Amsterdamians the happiest people on the planet right now are Chile fans. That goal differential could help see them through to the next round
pseudonymous in nc
I predicted this one to be tight and cagey, or driven by 2010 emotions and totally bonkers.
It wasn’t tight and cagey. That was a clogging.
Small sample size so far, but I wonder whether Brazil 2014 may reward teams that counterattack quickly and forcefully over ones that try to maximise possession. Waiting to see how Germany start for that.
@Alex S.:
Hahaha, no. As they said at the Grauniad, it’s always lovely to see the Dutch playing well, right up to their quarter-final exit.
burnspbesq
De Telegraaf: “Weergaloze revanche” (unparalleled revenge).
And below the fold, “Oranje slacht Spanje” (Orange slaughter Spain).
Morzer
@burnspbesq:
Is that the Dutch for “Humiliations Galore!”?
I have to say that if your Plan B is Fernando Torres, you might want to try moving straight to Plan C.
droog
The term is limited to a little bit of Dominican history, but this occasion is ripe for recalling “La España Boba“*. The mighty nation is all bogged down and listless.
*And Wikipedia isn’t right: “boba” means more like “dumb” or “slow” than “foolish”.
humboldtblue
@burnspbesq: It’s not really revenge because it’s not a title game or even a knock out round game. Great and decisive win but the revenge angle is overplayed
Morzer
@humboldtblue:
5-1 looks pretty good as a candidate for a truly epic vengeance to me, regardless of the level of the competition at which it occurred.
pseudonymous in nc
@humboldtblue:
But it’s exorcising a few demons, and also a kind of apology for the imposter Dutch team that showed up for the final in 2010.
pseudonymous in nc
@humboldtblue:
But it’s exorcising a few demons, and also a kind of apology for the impostor Dutch team that showed up for the final in 2010.
humboldtblue
@Morzer: @pseudonymous in nc: agreed
droog
@humboldtblue:
I disagree. You can’t really hope to face your most recent WC bane at the final. The chances of that are low. You take your revenge when you can. And this was the perfect setting.
Winning the final is business. Demolishing the team that foiled you in a very high-stakes match is personal. AKA, sweet revenge.
burnspbesq
The best Dutch victory over Spain since 1588?
agorabum
@jl: There is no logic.
South Korea invited us in. First, we kicked out the Japanese (which got us big ups). Then we saved their bacon from the commie NorKos, and then ChiComs (so very happy to have us there). While there have been occasional protests, nobody in the government wants to see us leave (with the nutters just across the border).
Even with the Germans, they saw us less as conquerors and more as saviors (from the Russian commies – who Hitler had been ranting about to them for a decade). And then in the Berlin Airlift, we solidified our savior status. So they saw us as big-hearted protectors.
In Iraqi, we were the bumbling warmongers – good at blowing things up, incompetent at peacekeeping, and always stomping on their neck with raids, checkpoints, and trigger-happy shoot-ups. There was a slim window where we could have shown ourselves to be the good guys, but that window closed before the end of 2003. After that point we were just the occupiers, who they wanted out ASAP.
Germany, Japan, South Korea – they can kick us out anytime (see: Philippines). But they want us there. Iraq never wanted us there – even if some individuals liked the Americans they worked with.
Tripod
@humboldtblue:
True, but 0 points and a -4 goal differential on the day may be all she wrote for the defending champions.
mcd410
@Randinho: Why on earth would you hate Sagna? All he did was give his best years to the club.
Randinho
@mcd410: Disappointed that he’s gone, that’s all. Certainly not the way I hate Sami Nasri.