The First Lady is campaigning in New Hampshire today and has turned her rally speech into an impassioned discussion of sexual harassment, assault, and rape.
Updated to Add:
I had put this as a comment in BettyC’s thread, but given the nature of the First Lady’s speech, decided I’d append it to this post. This is excerpted from a 2014 report I wrote on sexual assault, harassment, and rape for the US Army when my Commanding General was asked to look at the problem from the strategic and cultural levels:
American Cultural Concerns: Women’s Status in America and Attitudes Towards Women
As Gen. Welsh, as well as Zenko and Wolf observed in May 2013, no one enters the US military as a blank slate. Every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine brings with them at least two decades of socialization and acculturation to overall American norms and values, as well as to their numerous regional variations, those of their families, ethnic communities, and/or religious denominations. While America made great strides through the 20th Century towards greater inclusivity towards women, as part of the larger trend towards more inclusive civil rights and liberties for all American citizens, these gains are not uniform throughout society. Americans from more rural areas, from specific ethnic groups, and adherents to more traditional forms of religion often tend to hold more traditional views of sexuality, the interaction between men and women, and the appropriate roles for men and women in both the public and private realms of life(11). Often these bleed over into the popular consciousness, such as when women’s employment opportunities are limited due to things such as physical appearance.(12)
There is, however, an even more troubling socio-cultural downside to this. Sometimes it is referred to or reported as rape culture: the attitudes, norms, and values that allow men to view women as not being fully autonomous humans, but rather as objects to whom things can be done without their consent. It is this concept that is at the heart of the discussions and debates of incidents like the Stuebenville rape case, a similar incident in KS that actually drove the family from town, as well as a seeming rash of law enforcement officers sexually assaulting women under cover of law or officials directing law or rules against victims.(13)
While all of these incidents, and the ones that go under or unreported, begin to paint a disturbing pattern regarding a set of persistent negative norms and values towards women in America. What is even more disturbing are the hundreds of incidents where women were determined by law enforcement, courts, and medical personnel to be less than fully autonomous human beings, and therefore subject to having their rights and liberties curtailed for either being pregnant or because they might be pregnant.(14) Paltrow and Flavin document over 500 cases of pregnant women having their civil rights and liberties involuntarily curtailed, usually for trivial reasons such as a patrol officer’s concerns that the seat belt strap might harm the pregnant woman’s developing fetus, simply because they were or were suspected to be pregnant. While it would be an understatement to say that America has unresolved political and social issues regarding issues of women’s health, conception, and contraception, Paltrow and Flavin document a disturbing trend: if a woman in America is or could be pregnant, she is at risk of being reduced to second class citizen status due to others – law enforcement, medical professionals, and jurists – attitudes regarding women, their place, and their role in American society.
This abrogation of American women’s rights is both a disturbing socio-cultural trend, but it also points to a larger culturally bounded normative issue: in 2014 women’s legal and social status as fully and completely equal human beings and citizens is still not set and fixed. This is also reflected in other areas of American life, such as the still unclosed pay disparity between men and women, as well as the continued underrepresentation of women in corporate boardrooms, at the heads of major corporations, and in the state and federal legislatures. While the US military has often taken the lead on integration matters for women, ethnic minorities, and now on LGBT issues, the opening of the traditional male domain of combat arms is another place that the military is ahead of significant portions of the American citizenry. It is possible that the popular pushback in some segments of American society will contribute to the problem that Gen. Welsh, as well as Zenko and Wolf identified. Everyone that comes to the US military comes from an America that has conflicting norms and values regarding women, their roles, status, and rights. This may contribute to sexual violence in both America overall and within the US military.
11 Sally Daniels, Bradford Fay, and Nicholas Tortorello, “American’s Changing Attitudes Towards Women and Minorities”, The Public Perspective, DEC/JAN 1998,http://www.ropercenter.uconn.e…../91047.pdf.
12 “Iowa Dental Assistant Faces Challenges Raising Young Family After Her Dentist Boss Fired her for Being “too Attractive” and a ‘Threat’ to his Marriage”, Daily Mail, 2 AUG 2013,http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..sa-Nelson- moving-court-ruling.html and “Elementary School Aide, 23, Suspended After Racy Modeling Photos were Sent to Staff”, Daily Mail, 23 JAN 2014,http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article- 2544560/Elementary-school-classroom-aide-23-suspended-racy-modeling-photos-sent-staff.html.
13 David Edwards, “Texas Student Reports Rape and gets Suspended for ‘Public Lewdness’”, Raw Story, 23 DEC 2013, http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201…..orts-rape- and-gets-suspended-for-public-lewdness/, David Edwards, “Texas Cop Arrested for Handcuffing and Raping 19 Year Old at Traffic Stop,” Raw Story, 24 NOV 2013, http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201…..ffic-stop/, Eric W. Dolan, “Texas Deputy Accused of Raping Mother in Front of her Children Resigns”, Raw Story, 15 AUG 2013, http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201…..-front-of- her-children-resigns/.
14 Lynn M. Paltrow and Jeanne Flavin, “Arrests of Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973- 2005: Implications for Women’s Legal Status and Public Health”, Journal of Health Politics, Policy, and Law, 15 JAN 2013.
Shell
Bad satellite feed. But somehow I don’t think Michelle will be whining about her microphone.
Adam L Silverman
@Shell: The pool feed has a tech issue:
Corner Stone
It was a very good, powerful speech. Emotionally connected to the crowd and yet personal.
Shell
Damn, that was fine!
Corner Stone
Hmmm, I don’t think this can be said enough.
POTUS, FLOTUS, VPOTUS, former POTUS completely all in for HRC.
Trump has…Rudy…and…
piratedan
the you tube feed from Hillary was clear for me…. and now that the speech is out there on you tube is well under the hillary clinton string
Adam L Silverman
Just appended an update below the video embed.
Corner Stone
Maybe it’s just me. But I am of the impression that if you are campaigning three weeks out from the election and the TV news has the chyron of
“Trump Speaks In FL Amid Groping Allegations”
That may not be the best look for you as a candidate.
annie
wow.
Punchy
@Corner Stone: From the last thread, it appeared as if there wasn’t really any speaking going on. More like “Trump absent in FL amid 17 new accounts (honestly, we cannot keep track, they keep coming) of him being a sexual predator”
Corner Stone
Trump is attacking the GOP establishment 3 to 1 with bashing HRC.
Adam L Silverman
He’s arrived, is talking, and sniffling.
Corner Stone
Massive projection continues by Trump. The projection is yooge, believe me.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
That was one of the best speeches she’s ever given. A very important message to our country.
Now the only question is whether the orange shitgibbon lashes out or not. Every newscast today will feature highlights from that speech, it was that powerful. Can Ivanka and Kellyanne hold him back? I mean the gloves are off afterall, so surely attacking the most popular person in the political sphere in the country makes sense.
germy
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Everyone trying to support or normalize Trump after this may as just smear themselves in feces, because it’s the same thing.
hovercraft
@Adam L Silverman:
Thank you, you are an extremely useful resource to have here.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@hovercraft:
I don’t seen how he restrains himself – he’s been called.out.by.a.black.woman.
Adam L Silverman
And Trump just went New World Order in his speech in West Palm Beach.
Corner Stone
I think Trump just issued a personal invitation to three or four dozen more women to come forward with their allegations.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: It seemed like it fit thematically, so…
JPL
A panel on CNN one of the top political speeches given. I sent the CSPAN feed to friends and said watch this before you watch the news. I’m sure that this will lead tonight, and I didn’t want to spoil the surprise.
Mike in NC
One thing we can all agree on is that Donald J. Trump is uniquely qualified to be Rapist-in-Chief.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: He just got buzzed by a fly, does this means he’s possessed too?//
Nobody tell Alex Jones.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
He’s with Morning Joke on the conspiracy to overshadow the wikileaks scandal. The claims defy logic. They have proof the claims are false, they will provide proof at an appropriate time and place.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: Well, he is a dead man walking. So…maybe?
hovercraft
Law suit, drink!
Corner Stone
Can you imagine being the person who had to load this garbage BS into a teleprompter feed?
“God, another one? Sheesh, there’s more?! WTF!? AGAIN?”
Corner Stone
His tone of voice is the worst thing about his denial.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I hit mute when MSNBC went to Trump, but he looked for all the world like he was reading off the teleprompter in those first moments, his eyes focusing on one then the other. I went to make a sandwich and from what I see here and in the muted screen and chyrons, he’s riffing now.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
Did you miss Alex Jones, he says that Obama is plagued by flies indoors and out. They never land on anyone else, but him, it’s proof that he’s a demon or the devil, can’t remember which. Study it out!
bemused
Gag. Trump is talking about his beautiful, beautiful love story with Melania.
Corner Stone
“They were there! Call Sean Hannity! He will tell you. Why won’t anyone call Sean Hannity?”
gf120581
@hovercraft: By November 28, right?
jk
I hope this speech helps build more momentum against Trump. Over the last few days, it’s been very demoralizing to see so many women on tv defending this sex maniac.
Corner Stone
@hovercraft: I don’t think it’s accurate to say I “missed Alex Jones” as I actively make sure I have no idea how to find him.
But yes, I am aware of the sulfur sniff.
OzarkHillbilly
I can hear it in her voice. She knows this, in a very personal way.
bemused
No trouble with the mic picking up Trump snorting air hard.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
unmated for a moment, hear him blabbing about the Times. I’m gonna mute again, somebody post if uses the word “strawberries”
zach
Trump just asked his audience to look up the picture of the People Mag writer that wrote about her molestation (Natasha Stoynoff) and make their own judgement whether or not he’d wanna screw her… wow.
patrick II
If Michelle had given this speech for Baud he’d be winning this thing.
Elizabelle
@bemused: Yes. They’re stronger than ever now. Because what wife wouldn’t want to deal with her husband has dealt her in the past week, never mind over the whole relationship?
Now Trump is wishing for the end of the New York Times?
I can’t tell what the audience was shouting earlier. I wish we could see some audience faces as they listen.
Trump is an enthusiastic liar. Will give him that.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Elizabelle
Now Trump’s plugging a Rasmussen poll. Smile.
zach
I watch the beginning of every Trump speech crossing my fingers that he doesn’t drop out.
Ripley
Make America Gag Again!
Corner Stone
If they slandered you, Donald, then you should have them nailed to rights on it. Sounds like moving forward with a lawsuit may be in your best interest, nicked ware?
Elizabelle
What do we do with all these audience fools who can drive themselves to events, and fall for any conspiracy theory coming down the pike?
I wish we could tag them, like sharks or wolves. Know what you’re dealing with. See where they go.
Kropadope
@Corner Stone:
At least he has something huge to boast about.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
jk
Joe Scarborough was his usual smarmy scumbag self this morning
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Just because we’ve had two threads in a row about consent I still think this may be a little TMI.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
Just so you know I do not watch Alex Jones, I believe that Rachel or maybe Chris Hayes showed a clip to explain the sulfur thing. FOX is as far into the feverswamp as I will descend for research purposes only.
Lizzy L
I am grateful to those of you who are listening, watching, and reporting on Trump’s speech. I cannot listen to the man.
dmsilev
@zach:
I’d love not to believe that he said that. I’d really be much much happier about the state of things if I could say that that was unbelievable. Sadly, it’s completely believable and indeed predictable.
Kropadope
@Corner Stone:
For someone who loves lawsuits so much to not move forward with a lawsuit, pretty telling…
Elizabelle
And Trump knows vicious.
Trump as Christ?
Talking about radical globalization and the disenfranchisement of working people. About the depths of his opponent’s [im]morality?
Letting in those radical Islam immigrants. Trojan Horse. Inept incompetent people, like Obama and H Clinton.
hovercraft
Brexit!!
He will lead us back to greatness.
Corner Stone
Seems he may actually be laying the groundwork for a new media presence to combat this thoroughly corrupt media and press we have now that is so allied against him. “Unlimited resources”
Hmmm…
Shell
What is this weird, mincing like thing he does with his hands and fingers now? Its like he thinks he’s conducting his own wee orchestra.
zach
@jk: No one came forward before because it was f*ing obvious that Trump is a creep. He takes his daddy’s money and “invests” it in modeling agencies and beauty pageants, regularly trades up for a younger wife, brags about all of this on Howard Stern, etc… there was no story there until he denied being a creep in the debate, and every woman coming forward in every story I’ve read points to his denial in the debate as their motivation… Anderson Cooper did an amazing job forcing Trump to deny the obvious.
zach
@dmsilev: “I’d love not to believe that he said that.” … he caught himself afterwards and said “take a look at her writing…” or something like that, but it was clear what he meant.
dmsilev
@zach:
He’s on the ballot regardless. Every state has mailed out ballots to overseas and military voters (deadline was 45 days prior to election), and several states have absentee/early voting already underway. Most of the remaining are probably already printing up their ballots. And ballot access deadlines have long since passed. Even if he drops out, millions of Americans are going to look at a ballot and see ‘Donald J. Trump (R)’ on it.
Mnemosyne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Actually, I don’t think Trump will attack Mrs. Obama, because he’s basically a coward who doesn’t dare attack anyone who can beat him. He’ll make a few snide little asides, but he won’t attack because he knows she would win even before her supporters started chiming in.
Corner Stone
@hovercraft:
Sure, sure. I believe you. Probably Chris, he’s good like that.
*backs away slowly.. slowly*
Elizabelle
Now he’s got audience booing the Department of Justice.
Anoniminous
Deseret News reported yesterday Clinton and Trump are in a three-way race with Mullen in Utah, meaning UTAH! (for heaven’s sake) is in play. AND/IF/SO the Mormon vote in Arizona is questionable, meaning AZ is also in play.
bemused
@Elizabelle:
Maybe it’s just my bias but the Trump crowd response noise sounds so different to me from what I hear at Hilary rallies. For months now, I have felt my hair stand on end hearing Trump supporters, so menacing, ragey.
hovercraft
The great Trojan Horse of radical islamic terrorism, which Hillary and Obama are doing. Obama must stop campaigning and do his job. America stop the corrupt machine, he and his minions will put America First.
WOLVERINES
germy
I’d like to take a peek at herr drumpf’s speech but we don’t have cable tv. I usually check youtube, but the only channels carrying it are the RWNJ ones, and I don’t want them counting my clicks.
They love the clicks.
zach
@dmsilev: “He’s on the ballot regardless.” Yeah, I know. It’s a long-shot, but some genuine Clinton scandal combined with Trump dropping out and endorsing a legit moderate conservative is the only plausible path to Clinton losing… and would also massively increase conservative turnout for down-ticket races.
hovercraft
They control the DOJ, corrupt secret meetings with the AG to discuss her reappointment as AG in a new Clinton admin. Crooked Hillary.
? Martin
@germy:
Yeah. I’d really like SNL to drop the cold opening this week and do a serious piece on sexual assault. Everyone is waiting for them to cover this in a humorous way, and I don’t think you can do it. I don’t think you can make light of this. Maybe if the Trump campaign were fully busted here, but they aren’t – they’re attacking the accusers, they’re rationalizing his actions, they’re doing everything but take responsibility here and society needs to have a response to this to say ‘look, when speaking out results in you getting attacked because some powerful person’s livelihood is now under attack or some election holds in the balance or some popular individual will become less popular, that’s not okay. Society can’t afford to act that way because that’s why we don’t send bankers to jail, why we don’t lock up politicians or vote them out of office when they do things wrong, why powerful people can continue to do things to less powerful people – society enables that, and is currently enabling that in a large way. We can’t make fun of that because it’s not funny, it’s tragic, and it reflects a moral failing of this country’.
That’s the kind of thing Stewart did when he went on Crossfire. He called them out for making this country a worse place, and it was successful because he was disarming. They wanted him to be funny, tried to act like it was funny, and he was stone serious and he pulled them apart and the audience could see that it wasn’t an act, it wasn’t a show, because it wasn’t what they were expecting. SNL needs to do that now. Everyone is expecting Alec Baldwin to start humping a chair. It should be something completely different.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Punchy: I’m envisioning one of those count-up displays, like at a fundraising telethon, to keep track of the announcement numbers of Trump victims.
Kelly
I’ve heard all the jokes about yard signs showing that statistically valid polls are wrong. Still it is striking to me how few Trump signs I see out here in the rural, tea party friendly hinterlands of Oregon. Past elections featured tidy line ups of signs for the full Republican ticket. I see hundreds Bud Pierce for guv signs and maybe a dozen Trump signs. Oregon was always going Democratic anyway. Hopefully Trump disgust will get us the one more legislative seat to pass bills that take a super majority.
Elizabelle
@hovercraft: I know. How stupid is this audience?
I’d like to see its size and its faces as Trump speaks. All we have on CNN is Trump, closeup, with his flat weird colored hair and redder than usual face.
How full is the hall?
“I didn’t need to do this folks. Believe me.”
bemused
@zach:
Seriously? Oh hell, what am I thinking, of course he would.
Gin & Tonic
NYT responds to Trump’s threat. A few more words that Steve in the ATL’s suggestion of “bring it, fatso” but the same basic message.
NorthLeft12
It was Thanksgiving last weekend in Canada, and probably like a lot of other males I was questioned by most of my close female relatives whether what Deadbeat Donald called “locker room talk” was something I was familiar with. My wife had questioned me already, and my daughter, sister, neice, and sister-in-laws quickly followed suit. My brother and brother-in-laws were also asked…but not my Dad.
While I adamantly said that little of the talk that I ever heard [maybe 2%] involved sex, and absolutely none of that promoted or condoned sexual assault or abuse, I did admit that the talk that was about sex was usually disrespectful and degrading to the women who were identified and, in general, to all women.
It has made me think about those type of conversations [which occur not only in locker rooms] and personally resolve to do my best to shut them down in my presence and hopefully provide some example for others. Thanks Trump.
hovercraft
FBI Director has been corrupted, so bad that the career officers are ashamed. Comey concealed evidence and let her off the hook. It’s a conspiracy against the American people.
A moment of reckoning for the American people and civilization itself. It’ time for Trump to sacrifice himself for you America, accapt his sacrifice, now.
zach
@? Martin: “Yeah. I’d really like SNL to drop the cold opening this week and do a serious piece on sexual assault.”
Invite Trump to host again. Tell him it’ll be like when Palin/McCain went on after Fey had mocked her (it helped their reputations quite a bit)… go through days of rehearsals with phony sketches… then on the live broadcast have all the women he’s creeped on (that we know of) walk in for the cold open.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone:
PLUS abandoning Virginia…er, excuse me, “temporarily moving resources to North Carolina” (actual quote from Trump campaign klown.) It’s 25 days ’til election day and they’re “temporarily” sending their VA people to NC.
L to the OL. I was already going to take Nov 8th off, looks like I sure better take the 9th off as well.
Peale
@zach:
Just in case anyone missed that.
Adam L Silverman
If the Clinton’s secretly meet with the Attorney General how does everyone know about it? How are there pictures? How were there reporters present? That word, secretly, I don’t think it means what you think it means.
amygdala
You are the man, Adam. Thank you for making the case.
hovercraft
I’ve got to step away now. These people are crazy.
Corner Stone
This man has no idea about any factual data regarding the government. He just lies all the time.
Adam L Silverman
@hovercraft: based on a single anonymous source to Fox News.
Adam L Silverman
@amygdala: Speaking of which, I have to take several suits in for some tailoring later this afternoon!
Anoniminous
@hovercraft:
Shall we walk him up a pyramid in Mexico and rip open his chest with an obsidian knife, nail him to a cross, tie a leather noose around his neck to hang him for Odin, take him to the top of Kīlauea and throw him in ….
Decisions, decisions.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
Trump railing against international bankers, hmmm ….. check your Mein Kampf, it’s in there.
Anoniminous
@Jeffro:
Trump campaign yanked their ad buys in NC earlier this week. They are just going through the motions now.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
I have to say, I love that Comey tried to keep the door open for Republican attacks on Hillary but only managed to bring their wrath down on himself. Christ, what an asshole.
geg6
@jk:
Because Joe “Dead Aides in My Office” Scarborough can totally channel the mind and motivations of women who have been sexually assaulted. He’s that good.
? Martin
@zach: That would be political. This needs not be political. Yeah, politics dictate that it happen, but it’s not about shaming Trump or promoting Clinton. I bet the SNL cast and writers have their fair share of sexual assault stories to tell, what with being normal human beings in this country (seeing that is the only real qualification). We need a moment to say ‘Stop, America. Do not allow yourself to join a gang of 40 million people to attack some women reporting they were assaulted. Vote how you want, but do not make this activity part of your politics.’
bemused
It’s pretty easy now to see how so many Republican voters believed their leaders bullshit for decades and why the leaders didn’t think they would ever revolt. Now the idiot wingnuts have fallen just as easily for Trump and believe he will make their dreams come true. Trump will dump them so fast their heads will spin as soon as they are of no use to him and it’s hard to tell if any of them have even thought of that.
Elizabelle
Look forward to seeing Michelle’s speech.
Don’t know why CNN sticks with this Trump speech. It’s what passes for boilerplate for him.
He delivers. He promises.
“Our Independence Day arrives November 8th.”
Someone. Keep an eye on Kool-Aid stocks.
zach
@Peale: “Just in case anyone missed that.”
I was hoping I misheard this live… nope: https://twitter.com/gaywonk/status/786621470654935040
piratedan
@Mnemosyne: well, considering how Comey played footsie here in trying to string this along with the insinuation, he deserves everything flung his way. He could have just stated, nothing there, instead he followed the NYT lede and now… might as well resign.
Betty Cracker
TBogg on Twitter: Michelle Obama is basically baiting Trump to attack her now. If I were Kellyanne, I’d take Trump’s phone and swallow it.
singfoom
Well, at least Drumpf got the election day right this time. I can verify he said at least one true thing.
Jeffro
@Anoniminous:
I know of a nice little bunker near the Chancellery they can hole up in until the end, if they like.
jk
@zach:
Joe Scarborough wouldn’t know how to pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel and Mika is just as stone cold stupid.
Patricia Kayden
@germy: That’s how I feel. MSM better keep him off my tv after the nastiness of this campaign. Republicans should be ashamed.
D58826
Trump sounds like a combination of Christ and Hitler. I remember that the RWNJ used to count the number of times that Obama used the word ‘I’. Will they do the same for old little hands? Fat chance
I’ve never heard a presidential candidate use as much profanity as this one
zach
@? Martin: “That would be political. This needs not be political.”
Here’s a better idea, then: invite a sham audience to the rehearsals that will laugh uproariously at objectively TERRIBLE sketches. Some are full of horrific sexism. Some are just not funny. Then do it live for a real audience.
Jeffro
@Peale: Wow indeed. Wow o Wow indeed.
Go for it, paid Trump TV pundits…defend that shit.
amygdala
@Adam L Silverman: Well, it is much more important to look mahvelous than to feel mahvelous.
A lawyer for the NYT responded to the Donald’s retraction demand, with a spirited “get stuffed.” I’m sure it’s not coincidence that the Committee to Protect Journalists chair just issued a pretty much unprecedented statement that Trump is a threat to freedom of the press.
Oy, this election.
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: Trump has repeatedly said that only he can fix America. Only he. Sounds pretty “I am your Savior” to me.
Elizabelle
I wonder if DOJ will pull Trump’s passport on Election Night.
Wondering if he would flee to a country without extradition. Flight risk, with his own jet aircraft.
Corner Stone
@jk:
She went through this whole “Know Your Value” and “Know Your Worth” campaign, doing speeches and promoting women and their strength and other issues like that. I never read any of the material, so I don’t know how genuine or useful any of it actually was. But now, I am seriously confused where all that went? She attacks HRC for Bill’s behavior, she fluffed Trump for months on end.
I would say it’s bizarre but guess it isn’t.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker:
And if you were Kellyanne, we’d hope it got stuck on the way down…
One Trump comment against Michelle and Democratic turnout on Nov 8th buries the needle. She’s tough, so I say, go for it Donald.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden:
Another case of projection. RWNJs used to sneer at Obots about “our messiah”.
And then Trump is up there, just about nailing himself to a cross, making sacrifices on behalf of his movement.
It is crazy talk. And it got applauded.
catclub
@Mnemosyne: The insane website that had the “Roberts Career is over” headline also attacked Trey Gowdy selling out and going easy on Hillary.
Patricia Kayden
@Peale: Not even shocking at this point. It’s what you would expect from Trump. This is how he rolls.
Corner Stone
@piratedan:
Comey gave an hour long opinion editorial about Sec Clinton. He thought that would cover his ass. What an idiot.
Kropadope
@singfoom:
The other day he said “I don’t care if you’re sick.” I’m pretty sure that’s true.
WaterGirl
@zach:
Holy fuck, I think that’s possibly the most damaging thing he has said yet.
The man has absolutely NO SENSE. wow.
Corner Stone
@Patricia Kayden:
If you listen to what else he said about his accusers, he was essentially requesting that people destroy their lives. It’s a desperate gambit to keep the other 40 from coming forward.
Ruviana
@Elizabelle: Please don’t compare sharks or especially wolves to these deplorable people! Prions or MRSA maybe.
Adam L Silverman
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Yep, he went full New World Order in this speech. While he didn’t say Zionist Occupation Government he called the government, the media, global finance/banks, etc part of a cartel that seeks to destroy the US.
Betty Cracker
@Jeffro: It would be unbelievable stupid for Trump to attack MO, who is beloved beyond the Democratic base. But I believe he is that stupid.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle:
Forget the NYT, I read that as “Now Trump is wishing for the end of times?” In all fairness, he might be wishing for this, too.
edited for clarity
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
@Mnemosyne:
Yep. Notice that once he found out he lost the second debate, he attacked everyone BUT Clinton.
@Corner Stone:
\
To be honest, I think he just doesn’t like Hillary Clinton but can’t quite bring himself to actually lie and violate his job.
skerry
NYT response to Trump’s lawyers’ letter
Percysowner
In other news, Talking Points Memo reports Lou Dobbs just doxxed Jessica Leeds, the accuser that spoke to the NY Times, Jezebel reports that Hillary and Bill Clinton’s Wikipedia Pages Subject to Extremely NSFW Hack. The hacker is some nutso group Gay N**ger Association of America. Trump has such nice followers
Adam L Silverman
@amygdala: I saw the NY Times statement. Odds of them actually filing a suit against the Times are slim. Maybe the Palm Beach Post – provided its not part of one of the big newspaper consortiums, thinking it’ll cave because its pockets aren’t deep enough. So he’ll not file, but then he’ll work that into his bill of conspiratorial particulars that he was advised not to do so as the courts are all rigged against him too and he won’t be able to actually get justice and if you elect him he’ll fix it because he, alone, can ensure that he, you, and America can be treated fairly! Remember the Trump Doctrine.
SoupCatcher
I love that Michelle Obama never says his name. He is “her opponent,” and that’s it.
slag
Ding ding ding! This is the crux of the abortion issue.
ThresherK (GPad)
@zach: I like that idea.
My blood curdled when Palin threw off a line on SNL staight to camera about NBC and FCC license renewal.
Speaking of which, it’s time’s me to watch Bob Roberts again.
JPL
@zach: Thanks for the link to the video. I sent it on. This man has no self control and it can’t be said enough, he doesn’t need to be near the nuclear button.
DocSardonic
@jk: My retired Master Chief uncle used always hit us with “you couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with a faucet on the toe and direction on the heel”
scav
@zach: Well, they have that magic magic map, all they need to win is men, so double down: this sort of silverback tree-smashing brings all the men in line. Besides, those lines get the immediate feedback roar of admiration, which just proves all those sissies in the tower advising him are wrong wrong wrong.
Gin & Tonic
@Percysowner: Holy cow, the GNAA returns? I’m confident there are old Slashdot readers here who recall the GNAA.
Ruviana
@Anoniminous: All of them, Katie!
Adam L Silverman
@slag: Some of us XY/chromosomally challenged people know how to read…
PPCLI
@hovercraft: Wow. Sacrifice for our sake.
I expected his next move to be appearing with Falwell Jr. and announcing he is saved, that all that was the unsaved Trump, and that Jesus has already forgiven him.
I didn’t expect that he would take the tack of “I am Jesus.”
retr2327
@amygdala: It’s worth a quick click to read the NYT’s response. Legally, their best (and guaranteed to be successful) defense is the “actual malice” standard for information of public interest (essentially, that they are not liable unless they knew, or reasonably should have known, that the information was false, and published it anyway).
But rather than lead with that, they begin with “Nothing in our article has had the slightest effect on the reputation that Mr. Trump, through his own words and actions, has already created for himself.”
That’s about as close to a mike drop as you’re going to find in a document written by a lawyer . . .
catclub
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck:
After the GOP convention he spent time attacking Cruz, while everyone on his side was yelling that his opponent was Hillary.
After the DNC convention he attacked the Khan’s.
I earlier thought that Steve Bannon not making news was progress. Never mind. He is the mastermind of the new strategy of attacking someone else (Bill Clinton) who is not Hillary.
Corner Stone
Man, Thomas Roberts has one really inappropriate Trump surrogate on MSNBC. That lady be cray.
Betty Cracker
OMFG, now the CNN panel is asking Andre Brauer if it’s hard to come out and defend Trump — in solicitous tones, as if he has such a hard job. Utterly surreal.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker: The CNN chyron is gold, Jerry! Gold!
“Trump On Accuser: You Think I Did This? Just Look At Her!”
The Moar You Know
@Gin & Tonic: More likely someone just using the name. I think the GNAA OGs have long since moved on to jobs and lives – that was about ten years ago, right?
Lizzy L
@Betty Cracker: Wait — Andre Braugher? The actor? Defending Trump?
Patricia Kayden
@skerry: Ouch!! That burns. Trump has damaged his brand beyond repair. Melania better get what she can and leave before his brand craters any further.
bemused
Even Trump has to know he can’t flush out more rabid deplorable males to gain more votes to make a difference in his numbers at this point. He wants to go out amping up his scorched earth vendetta against anybody who dissed him as much as he can before the election.
piratedan
from what I’ve read over at LGF, Lou Dobbs from Fox News just doxxed, on air, one of the ladies in the NYT article.
In a sane world, he would be fired and charged.
Gin & Tonic
@The Moar You Know: Oh, at least.
Joel
@Ruviana: Some prions are useful. #notallprions
“Scrapie” would be acceptable.
Schlemazel
@germy:
No you really don’t want to hear him. They had CNN on in the lunchroom and he was doing his angry shoury thing. I used my phone to mute him.
The good news is the really religious kid that works with us and is a har core Republican asked me to mute him because trump makes him sick. The kid may be salvageable
Botsplainer
For anyone familiar with commercial bankruptcy practice, he’s acting like an egregiously bad debtor in possession right before the trustee filed a motion demanding his removal. He’s stripping the estate down to the baseboards.
amygdala
@Adam L Silverman
@retr2327
I gotta say, I loved that letter from the NYT lawyer. IANAL, but can recognize, “you got nothin’, Donny” when I see it. Let’s hope the Palm Beach paper doesn’t find itself on the business end of a summons. I’d guess that if they do, there’d be a lot of folks who’d be willing to chip in to help with expenses.
Mike J
@Percysowner: Defacing a wikipedia page is hardly a “hack”.
Calouste
@SoupCatcher: “her opponent” is quite a bit shorter than “Groping Orange Pedophile”.
Punchy
That would just be a green light to Donny to begin sticking his hands in her various orafices trying to retrieve it.
redshirt
@Kelly:
I envy you. Here in CD2 Maine, there are Trump signs everywhere. I’d say 200 for every Clinton sign. They all appeared overnight a couple of weeks ago. And what’s saddened me is that since Monday morning, even more have gone up, including about a dozen giant ones. This is after the Access Hollywood video went up.
In public streets and such, I assume it’s the work of a few dedicated nutjobs. But at people’s houses, that’s on them.
It makes me very distrustful of my neighbors. They’re assholes.
Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck
@catclub:
He’s afraid of Hillary. I think the only reason he may not cancel the third debate is that Tweety will do everything within his physical power to help Trump win, and having everything stacked in his favor is the only way Trump is comfortable dealing with the world.
amygdala
Holy moly… how fast and furious is the #$%* flying at the Donald, you ask? Enough that The Atlantic has taken to liveblogging it.
hueyplong
But rather than lead with that, they begin with “Nothing in our article has had the slightest effect on the reputation that Mr. Trump, through his own words and actions, has already created for himself.”
That’s about as close to a mike drop as you’re going to find in a document written by a lawyer . . .
—–
This lawyer has to agree. It’s nearly breathtaking.
Ruviana
@Joel: That’d work. BVE or kuru as well.
catclub
@Pest Bog Mummy, Frakensteinbeck:
Huh?
Isn’t Chris Wallace set up to be the moderator for the last debate?
Lizzy L
The topics for the 3rd debate have been announced. They are: 1) Immigration, and 2) the Supreme Court.
I know what I’m doing next Wednesday night.
bobbo
Michelle Obama is one reason to love this country. This country can produce someone like her. I hope she stays in public life in some capacity; she is an ongoing inspiration.
Ruviana
@Lizzy L: I’m thinking it might be Andre Bauer. His profile makes more sense. I ran to the electric google machine when I saw Betty’s comment.
Brachiator
Can we do an emergency constitutional convention and give Obama another term?
trollhattan
Republicans have had their Hillary fixation since ’92 and while they’ve got their suspicions about Michelle they can’t follow two shiny things at once so have kept after Hillz and haven’t unleashed all the dogs on Michelle. (Treat her contemptibly yes, but not in an all-out warlike fashion.)
IDK whether she may, after a couple years away from the WH, decide to take an active role in politics but if Michelle does, she’ll be a vastly tougher foe to Republicans than Hillary. I don’t wish any of that on her for a minute, but I’d gladly pay the admission price to watch them try.
trollhattan
@catclub:
Yup. It’s Fox night.
raven
@redshirt: My friend lives there and the word is that is one landlord dude.
gwangung
@trollhattan: I very much doubt Michelle would want public office in the future. But lead in the public policy arena? Yes, I think so (though probably in such widely supported areas such as children’s health and voting rights).
The Moar You Know
@Brachiator: I wouldn’t ask that of him and there’s no way he’d take it. Michelle obviously wants out VERY badly. I don’t blame her. And look at before/afters of our last two-term presidents: Clinton, Bush, Obama. The job beats the shit out of you.
ETA: last guy who did over two terms was FDR and he literally died in office on top of a pile of paperwork. Obama deserves better. So did FDR, for that matter.
Mnemosyne
@gwangung:
Yeah, I see Michelle taking more of a Jimmy Carter role post-presidency. She really seems to dislike electoral politics, though she likes the people and causes she deals with.
PVDMichael
Is there any evidence that moderating Trump is Kellyanne’s MO?
Her husband was an advisor to the Paula Jones lawsuit. She’s been knee deep in the fever swamp a long time… Was a pupil of Frank Luntz, Worked for Pence, worked for Gingrich, worked for Cruz, Defended Todd Akins legitimate rape comments. I don’t think she’s just a hired gun here. I think she’s all in.
Brachiator
@Lizzy L:
I might skip this debate. The topics are red meat for conservatives. They are going to talk about this for 90 minutes?
Trump will say, “Immigration, wall. Supreme Court, Scalia.” Drops mike.
aimai
What a woman. What.A.Woman. And what a speech. I am so sad I wasn’t there in person but I just watched the whole thing. Incredible. I would love to see her as Senator from Illinois. Or from anywhere, really!
Corner Stone
@PVDMichael:
I loved how everyone on TV were so deferential to her in the beginning of her joining the campaign. Oooo, she’s such a professional! She’s so smart! She’s going to guide the pivot to attracting women!
NO! She’s a hateful clown and always has been! Take one look at her record. That is who she is!
scav
Oh, apparently Daddy’s verbal and personal abuse makes him human — it’s only the media making such a silly fuss about normal, even endearing non-political behavior. Only political robots don’t go around grabbing women without consent and bragging about it. Donny Jr., the little chip off the scamp. And why bring it up now, naughty naughty women, possibly interfering with Dad’s new hobby, presidenting? Mean ol’ NYT, introducing political content and implications into an election for president: that’s worse than fact-checking!
WaterGirl
wow. michelle. that was powerful. now that i’ve watched the video I will go back and read what adam wrote.
edit: just read it. thank you, adam. we are lucky to have you here.
sukabi
@Elizabelle: Melania will deliver divorce papers Nov. 10…
Schlemazel
@The Moar You Know:
I didn’t think he was on top of paperwork when he died!
Elizabelle
@redshirt: no wonder Stephen King writes scary stories about Maine. My sympathies.
Brachiator
@The Moar You Know:
FDR had serious health issues and a heart condition that was going to do him in no matter what. And this was his fourth term. He was relatively healthy during his third term.
Let’s all convince Obama to do a third term!
But yeah, I know that Mrs Obama is eager to move on.
sukabi
@scav: someone should remind the drumpf camp that Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Jeffery Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were all human as well and could pass themselves off as arguably more empathic, compassionate and less sociopathic than drumpf…
Just sayin’
trollhattan
@gwangung: Yup, don’t consider the above a prediction, especially in light of her current sense of relief eight years in the spotlight are coming to an end.
Easy predictions: 1. After a few years the memories of how brutal the daily grind of politics can be will fade to an unknown extent. 2. Democrats will cajole the holy hell out of her on an ongoing basis ti either run for something or aim for the judiciary branch. 3. Republicans are very scared of the above.
redshirt
@Elizabelle: It’s gotten worse very recently. I don’t think King based any stories on this type of a person (a rural Trump supporter) before. Even this rural district used to be pretty liberal – Obama won it twice for instance.
Villago Delenda Est
AKA people who should be turned into cat food.
Uncle Cosmo
@Elizabelle:
St. Breitbartholomew. Or maybe Shamlet, Stale Prince of Damnedmurk.
Keith G
Maybe the best political speech of this season, and a strong speech for any season. The first half of the speech is so well written and masterfully delivered. It is so personal and so moving. The 2008 Obama campaign staff referred to Michelle as “The Closer”. This speech shows why.
MomSense
@OzarkHillbilly:
I love you, OH for always being so attuned to feelings. I finally watched her speech and it really hit me. I agree that she knows this issue personally. I heard it in her voice too. If some good comes from all of this it will be that those of us who know tsexisl assault and harassment personally will be a bit bolder, seek more support, and reach out to help others. And like FLOTUS we are greatful for the good, decent, strong men who have our backs- like you.
Hope your shoulder is feeling better.
JR in WV
So Trump is defending himself from a charge of sexual assault by accusing his victim of being too ugly to attract his attention… so smart that.
Because of course, sex has almost nothing to do with rape, it is a crime driven by a fetish for control of others as much as anything else.
The debate Sunday upset me more than it did wife Mrs J. Who has been loomed over by bosses, and who had a hard time during and after the debate. I couldn’t get to sleep until around 4 or 5 am. I read bubble-gum-for-my-mind SF, and went to bed and twitched for 20 minutes and got back up, over and over. Finally I was able to get calm enough to fade into sleep. Fortunately I didn’t have to be somewhere at 8:30am.
Trump was committing (psychological) assault right there on the Debate stage, if you ask me. So I believe everyone who tells us that he physically attacked them, ever. Girls from 9 to 99, he would attack them just to prove to himself that he has power over them. “I’ll put you in jail!” is another assault, a threat to physically control someone in a manner wholly inconsistent with the laws of the nation, also known as kidnapping.
Trump is dead even with the most despicable people on earth, perhaps a little more despicable than all but a very special few like Josip Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. He hasn’t had a chance to compete with those monsters yet, and Hillary is all that stands between us and that. I’m pretty sure she is going to win.
I think we will see into the darkness of Trump’s heart and soul between now and November 9th. And I think it will be very ugly, so ugly we will understand why he must use power over others to reinforce his no doubt very ugly self-image.
What a despicable piece of crap Donald Trump is.
JR in WV
@JR in WV:
Oh, yeah, Adam, Thanks so much for the excerpt from your report on cultural aspects of sexual assault… is there any subject you haven’t written a deeply researched report for a military command structure?
Don’t answer that!
Of course there are, but those topics are frivolous and boring.
Keep up the good work, we all appreciate it very much.
KS in MA
Mrs. O. nailed it. What a speech!
louc
@Adam L Silverman: PB Post is owned by Cox Media Group. I think they’ll be okay.
louc
@Adam L Silverman: PS Remember, they’ve covered Donald Trump for years and years, through lots of controversies. My favorite is a renewal of his decades-old lawsuit against airplanes flying over Mar-a-Lago. Hey real estate genius, Mar-a-Lago has always been in the flight path of PBIA. I know, I lived for a couple of years in West Palm Beach 25 years ago about a mile west of the mansion. I think the Post may be one of the papers that broke the Marla Maples affair story. Or its sister paper, the Palm Beach Daily News, aka the Shiny Sheet.
Gex
@? Martin: What’s funny about this is that comedy is as terrible as everywhere else. Women are harassed, assaulted, raped, roofied, you name it. Just a few weeks ago Kurt Metzger led an entire internet blow up about how unfair it is to take women’s words on it. After days and days of making the situation totally awful for the women who got a rapist removed from UCB, he eventually talked to some of the women then agreed that they were raped. And this was supposed to make him a good guy. See his not an MRA. He just thinks that every abused woman must personally convince him before the accusation has merit. Of course, it is his status as a man that allows him that privilege, so really, every man gets to demand proof or it didn’t happen.
Comedy is often worse than most other places because few jobs have HR. There’s a lot of gatekeepers with power. And those positions usually are occupied by men.
I wonder if SNL could do a good job at what you suggest, seeing as Michael Che was in Kurt Metzger’s camp in his “she’s a lying bitch trying to destroy a man’s career” phase.
Uncle Ebeneezer
The part in the speech about women having men yell nasty shit about their bodies in public really hit me. Last night my wife had that happen going down the escalator at the train station on her way home, for no reason at all. It freaked her out and had her upset all night (and me too.) Sounds like the dude was just extremely pissed off and yelling at several people but still. I’m still shook up just from hearing about it afterwards. Ugh, fucking men…
JR in WV
The NY Times General Counsel did a good job with his reply letter to Trump’s demand for a retraction and apology. At the very end, he finished with a sharp finale:
“… have a court set him straight!”
Zing!! That left a mark!
sunny raines
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
Is for good men and women to say and do nothing
When will all good men, and when all good women
Stand up and be counted saying enough is enough,
Oh yes, I’ve had enough, I will stand up, yes I will”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XhK_8eRrcM
OGLiberal
I don’t think I’ve seen or heard a better or more effective public speaker in my lifetime than Michelle Obama…better than her husband, better than Bill, better than St. Ron the Gipper. I don’t she has political aspirations but she needs to put this talent to good use.