The best case scenario for the next four years is that world leaders just ignore Trump and act like he’s special and doesn’t really speak for the US:
President-elect Donald Trump spoke Friday with Taiwan’s president, a major departure from decades of U.S. policy in Asia and a breach of diplomatic protocol with ramifications for the incoming president’s relations with China.
The call is the first known contact between a U.S. president or president-elect with a Taiwanese leader since before the United States broke diplomatic relations with the island in 1979. China considers Taiwan a province, and news of the official outreach by Trump is likely to infuriate the regional military and economic power.
The exchange is one of a string of unorthodox conversations with foreign leaders that Trump has held since his election. It comes at a particularly tense time between China and Taiwan, which earlier this year elected a president, Tsai Ing-wen, who has refused to accept the notion of a unified China under Beijing’s rule. Her election angered Beijing to the point of cutting off all official communication with the island government.
And in the second sign of the looming apocalypse, Snowball Snookie is right:
Another conservative is calling “crony capitalism” on Donald Trump’s deal with Carrier, albeit an unexpected one — Sarah Palin.
In an op-ed for the website Young Conservatives, the former Alaska governor allowed that the details behind the manufacturer’s decision to keep some 1,000 jobs in Indiana at the president-elect’s behest, rather than move them to Mexico, are not yet clear. But touting the value of free markets, Palin signaled her disapproval if it was a case of “political intrusion using a stick or carrot to bribe or force one individual business to do what politicians insist.”
“When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent,” she asserted.
And in an apparent jab at Trump, whom she famously endorsed in a rambling speech earlier this year, she asked: “Republicans oppose this, remember? Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail.”
Actually, you don’t, because you have all sorts of favorites you like to prop up (heya corn producing states and fossil fuel companies, I’m looking at you), but she is right about this. It is crony capitalism, and not only that, it’s terribly done. The majority of the jobs are still leaving.
Served
There’s a song in the musical Spring Awakening, where the harsh school master and mistress have caught the male lead and there’s no talking his way out of a severe beating as punishment.
The title of it is “Totally Fucked” and it pretty much sums up our status as of November 9th.
Baud
No chance in hell she wrote that herself.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: David French’s (of NRO) wife is her ghost writer.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Millions of monkeys typing….
Kristine
Do any R’s understand the situation with China well enough to disconnect the landlines?
Adam L Silverman
We’re not all going to die. The PRC’s out right now is that Trump is not President yet, so this call has no official weight of the US behind it standing. I guarantee that this is what US Embassy Beijing is communicating to the PRC. And I would be very surprised if President Obama and President Xi have not already spoken on the phone.
Major Major Major Major
Did they not realize they were electing a strongman or something? Jesus, did he simultaneously con fucking all his supporters in different ways?
Served
@Adam L Silverman: CNN (ugh) is reporting that Beijing and POTUS have already spoken. Small relief.
Trumps entire presidency is going to be like Sideshow Bob stepping on to rake after rake.
mai naem mobile
It’s all Obama’s fault because he obviously didn’t tutor Shitgibbon well in his daily afternoon tutoring sessions because,you know,the incoming president has to be tuto red by the previous president.
Adam L Silverman
@Kristine: Senators McCain and Graham do. Apparently Secretary Kissinger is in the PRC right now and he certainly does.
dmsilev
@Adam L Silverman: That’s all well and good now, but seven weeks or so from now, Trump in fact will be the POTUS and there won’t be any such convenient fig leaf to hide behind. I expect we’ll see a lot of professional diplomats using convoluted language to say “no the President didn’t really mean what he said”.
Roger Moore
@Kristine:
No good. The Trumpinator has a mobile phone.
Baud
@Kristine:
Maybe we can get the official translators in on the plan to save the world by permitting them some “poetic license” when translating Trump’s phone calls.
Major Major Major Major
@Served: and that’s the best case scenario.
We should have a bunch of Obama “miss me yet?” billboards across the rust belt starting in January.
mai naem mobile
Hopefully Shitgibbon won’t get North Korea and South Korea confused and want to build a hotel in the fast growing resort city of Pyongyang.
Don’t forget The Real Not Male Palin didn’t know North and South Vietnam had reconciled. Those were the good ole days where you just had to hope that if McCain got elected,he would make it through the term.
mai naem mobile
@Major Major Major Major: ooh,I would totally donate to that cause.
bago
Pfft. How much do you want to bet they’ve already cracked the hash to his twitter account.
schrodinger's cat
Watch all the goodwill built over the last 70 or so years go down tubes. Added benefit, immigration problem solved without a wall.
Kristine
@Roger Moore: Where’s Francis Underwood when you need him?**
**House of Cards
max
We’re All Going to Die
Because Beijing is pissed about Taiwan? Naw. If we’re all going to die, it’s going to be because Trump started lobbing nukes at someone. In the end, Beijing’s insistence on the US treating Taiwan like a pariah depends on the US needing China (to offset Russia) more than China needs the US. (Hint: we’re kind of one of their biggest export markets.)
Actually, you don’t, because you have all sorts of favorites you like to prop up (heya corn producing states and fossil fuel companies, I’m looking at you), but she is right about this. It is crony capitalism, and not only that, it’s terribly done. The majority of the jobs are still leaving.
Much more straight-forward to impose a tariff, but in the end, this is about selling giant tax cuts for rich people to suckers. So he needs bogus Carrier-type deals to look like He’s Doing Something.
What we have here is the stupider elements of the Bush Junior administration on steroids.
max
[‘Unless you spent 2007 freaking out that Bush was going to start a war, this is not yet the time to start freaking out.’]
Inmourning
major4 if there is a january
joel hanes
@Baud:
Maybe we can get the official translators in on the plan to save the world by permitting them some “poetic license” when translating Trump’s phone calls.
Pageing Miss Yuan, Miss “Honey” Yuan.
Please pick up the white courtesy phone nearest you.
Miss Yuan to the white courtesy phone.
Thank you.
Adam L Silverman
@mai naem mobile: President Obama had the State Department offer the following:
1) A diplomatic protocol briefing for the President-elect and his transition team.
2) A State Department officer to advise and assist when the President-elect is either contacted by or contacts other world leaders during the transition.
3) A secure telephonic communication system for these contacts.
The President-elect rejected all three. He has also rejected all but two Presidential Daily Briefings since he was designated as the President-elect.
Omnes Omnibus
We are all going to die? Yep. That has been the case from the moment we each were born.
PsiFighter37
Motherfucking idiot.
Adam L Silverman
@dmsilev: I’m sure, but for now there is a firm hand on the wheel.
Kristine
@Baud:
Songs from “Hamilton.” Bee Gee’s Greatest Hits.
PsiFighter37
@Adam L Silverman: I have to imagine this is going to make it less likely that we get a semi-qualified SOS. Ugh.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: speak for yourself, I’m going to be a robot.
khead
@Major Major Major Major:
I would even settle for the dumbass Bush 43 meme right now. No, really.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Can we get Obama a burner phone and secretly give the number to the other heads of state?
joel hanes
a hotel in the fast growing resort city of Pyongyang
They’ve already got a _yuuuuge_ one, worthy of the Trump brand, The Ryugyong Hotel
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Instapundit, is that you?
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
So I guess Palin didn’t get that cabinet post, huh.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman:
Yes we are.
Adam L Silverman
@bago: He’s currently doing this on unsecured comms. I can’t prove it, but I can still guarantee that every foreign Intel agency has set up in a way to intercept them one way or another. Because they’re professionals and do these sort of things.
amk
the monkey and the poo.
great job, murkkka.
Citizen_X
@schrodinger’s cat:
It’ll be needed to keep us in.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Decided against the Peter Thiel blood drinking route?
misterpuff
Euphinism (n.) – Self confessed Drumpf Bullshit, i.e. anything that comes out of his mouth.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Adam L Silverman: Jesus Christ. I was trying not to spend all my time cowering under my bed. Now I’m not sure I’m cowering enough.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: No one gets out of life alive.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I’m crazy, not evil.
@Omnes Omnibus: he into that?
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, at least we know one wasn’t “Bin Ladin Determined to Attack U.S.”
Thanks, Obama.
Adam L Silverman
@PsiFighter37: Who knows at this point.
JPL
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: That would be my guess.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Is it possible? Yes. Probable? Unlikely. But so was Trump becoming President…
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Yes, but not right now.
Kristine
Wondering if Pence & Co. will reach the point where they realize that using T***p as a distraction while they pillage/demolish everything in sight actually has a downside.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: If I am not confusing him with a different dipshit, yes, he is.
Iowa Old Lady
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t get this at all. Why would Trump reject those? What is he thinking?
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Technicalities.
Adam L Silverman
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Take the swiffer with you and you can get those pesky dust bunnies while you’re under there.
Baud
@Iowa Old Lady: My guess is that they are boring.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: dilbert guy probably is too. AI is a big tent.
gene108
@Adam L Silverman:
But it is not a private e-mail server in his basement, so no security protocols are broken.
khead
Remember when Trump said we would win so much over China? Well, this is the first example.
It’s nothing to us – but to his minions? “Obama never called Taiwan”. Book it. I expect to see this within a week.
No gain with respect to jobs. A set back with respect to world diplomacy. But for Trump followers? Win.
Ithink
@Served:
Oh yeah, right! What a f’ing great play & soundtrack Spring Awakening was. Saw it from special on-stage seating for $25…and yep, that song does indeed sum up extraordinarily well the concurrent circumstances of the unthinkable results of U.S. Election 2016!
Adam L Silverman
@Iowa Old Lady: The speculation that I’ve seen suggests is its part and parcel of his whole rejection of expertise thing. He knows better than the generals and admirals and diplomats and policy professionals.
The Lodger
@Kristine: I bet Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright never thought the show would turn into light escapist comedy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: So imagine eternity as a robot with Reynolds and Adams for company. Are you sure that death is not preferable?
dmsilev
@Iowa Old Lady:
Fixed that. And I think I answered the question.
Iowa Old Lady
@Adam L Silverman: Jesus Christ.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I could always put myself to sleep until somebody interesting joined. At the very least you can still choose oblivion.
@Adam L Silverman: Oh that is way scarier than “it’s boring.”
gene108
@Iowa Old Lady:
M
Maybe he’s counting on the Russians to keep him informed
SiubhanDuinne
@Kristine:
Stayin’ Alive?
JPL
@The Lodger: Veep is now serious drama.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Massachusetts.
mai naem mobile
@Kristine: You don’t mean to say that the theme song for Trumpy’s Presidency is the Bee Gees ‘Stayin Alive Stayin’ Alive, aah aah aah Stayin’ Alive’?
ThresherK
One headline I read was “Trump calls Taiwan”.
I immediately imagined it , “Trump calls Taiwan some bigoted word a newspaper wouldn’t print“
gene108
@Adam L Silverman:
LOL!!!
Blowing off the intel, diplomacy and security pros is going to piss those guys off. And probably give them a lot of free time to let off steam, by – I don’t know – talking to reporters or looking into Trump’s conflicts of interest.
mai naem mobile
@efgoldman: Ask Russia.
raven
@mai naem mobile: The Heebeegeebee’s Meaningless Songs
Bobby D
Well I guess I lived long enough…to finally see the Pillbilly Princess, the Trailer Trash Tiara, the Rootin’ Tootin’ I can see Putin (from my porch, you betcha!) backwoods bumpkin, be right about something for once.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
That is simply appalling.
This little-fingered shitgibbon is REJOICING in his fuck-you ignorance. It is to puke.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Isn’t this plot line the basis for the expanded Dune stories about what happened before the Butlerian Jihad?
Culture of Truth
@SiubhanDuinne: “Little Boots, Little Fingers…”
Ithink
Jesus the Christ unbound in Armageddon mode, did Princess Dumbass of the North woods criticize and explicitly disagree w/ the now-president elect she rhetorically fellated an endorsement to in ecstatic fashion to re-claim a former brief glory that NEVER should have been…?
This would all be so funny, bizarre and/or hypocritically entertaining as virtually all Republican antics have been the previous decade plus, but then I remember who Sarah Palin is, was and will always be, to say nothing of her targeted criticized Cheetoh Stay Puft Marshmallow Monster, and become profoundly distressed all over at the inevitable atom bomb being improperly installed as POTUS come January 20th. Won’t make a damn bit of difference to Drumpf and neither will he likely give Bonita Mussolini the public shaming she, again, SO richly deserves in the form of his trademark clapback tweets. Perhaps we should adopt his stance of “oughta sight, oughta mind” when it comes to all things Palin, no? Broken clocks are after all right once a day, at least…
Aleta
I Started a Joke
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I have no idea.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
@JPL:
Really, pretty crazoid to realize that I’m beginning to view Sarah Fucking Palin in terms of, “Well, maybe she wouldn’t be that bad, considering….”
Betty
A banana republic with nukes. Bad, very, very bad.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Adam L Silverman: Certainly beats watching this shitshow.
@SiubhanDuinne: Another fun scary thing is, each Republican administration makes the last one look good by comparison. One day someone’s going to come along who makes Trump look good.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Major Major Major Major:
Trump voters may not all be bigots, MMMM, but damn few of them are deeply and importantly intelligent beyond some thin slice of knowledge they may have studied (think Carson and brain surgery).
On the whole, they are wilfully stupid people who have been duped. A buncha hateful, fearful saps.
Iowa Old Lady
Rachel Maddow tweets a good question:
Is it more alarming if Donald Trump unwittingly broke 40 years of US diplomatic policy …or it he did so wittingly
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I could never get beyond the canon three.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: Richie Rich is a vampire?
GregB
Relax people! I mean, how many divisions China have?
SiubhanDuinne
@Iowa Old Lady:
Because he is a dick and an asshole. Because he can. Think “cat-who-knocks-your-full-cup-of-coffee-off-the-desk-and-onto-the-floor,” multiply by several orders of magnitude, and you’ve got Trump and the Obamabriefings.
Ah, I believe I’ve found the flaw in your analysis.
schrodinger's cat
OT: Did any one see GG revival? Did you like it. Is it worth getting Netflix for?
Kthx.
amk
well, at least he didn’t start a trade war with chyeena.
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne: I know, really!!!!
schrodinger's cat
@amk: If I come down south this time around, we should a Balloon Juice meetup. I too has relatives in Chennai. My grandma’s brother was married to a Telugu woman and he was based in Chennai. Their daughters speak Tamil but not Telugu or Marathi, go figure.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I couldn’t get through the Butlerian Jihad ones. I got through all the ones Frank Herbert wrote and then all the ones his son and Kevin J. Anderson completed from his notes, but the Butlerian Jihad ones. Don’t know what the deal was, but those were just completely boring.
schrodinger's cat
Halp I is in moderation for editing my own comment.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
Hush yo mouf.
Llelldorin
So Sarah Palin’s been shocked completely into her senses? That may be the scariest thing I’ve heard yet.
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’d like my kid to at least get a chance to grow up. The ability for her get old would be a bonus.
gogol's wife
@Adam L Silverman:
but e-mails
JPL
Trump is tweeting and appears to be justifying his phone call. Taiwan is saying that Stephen Yates, a Cheney crony set up the call. Maybe since Trump is embarrassed, the Bolton/Yates group will now be tossed aside. At least, one can hope.
@Llelldorin: Nope. . I along with several others feel she’s been rejected from Trump’s administration.
Amir Khalid
@mai naem mobile:
I’m thinking of a song more along the lines of New York Mining Disaster.1941.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodinger’s cat: You are free.
Keith P.
I was hoping that he would wait until after inauguration to really start fucking up the world.
schrodinger's cat
@Adam L Silverman:Thanks! I found another mistake in my comment. I think I should just go to sleep now. Too tired to write grammatically correct sentences.
Matt McIrvin
@efgoldman: I’m sure she can get out of this town long before it’s underwater.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodinger’s cat: Don’t worry, someone will be along to angrily point out that you’re illiterate.
Kay
The Carrier thing is great politics until another company in another state threatens to move jobs and Trump doesn’t intervene and those workers ask why he helped the Indiana workers and not them.
I think he has to jump in every time now or it’s his fault.
D58826
Since this seems to b e the Taiwan thread I’m going to repost this from an earl;ier thread. Any comments?
An interesting take on der Fuhrer’s foreign policy. It is by design.
link to the twitter threat https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/804835883153178624
and link to the article : https://newrepublic.com/article/132044/donald-trumps-foreign-policy-revolution
with any degree of informed knowledge or consistency. But this shouldn’t blind us to the fact that he has a bold and consistent global vision. He may be weak on the details, but he is strikingly audacious in championing a shadow tradition that stands in opposition to the bi-partisan internationalism that has dominated American foreign policy since the presidency of Franklin Roosevelt.
The tradition that Trump belongs to is often labelled isolationist—a pejorative description popularized by its internationalists critics. But the term unilateralist might be more accurate. Internationalists—which include all American presidents from Franklin Roosevelt onwards—believe that America has an obligation to be the bulwark of the global capitalist order, creating and supporting a system of alliances like NATO, keeping global trade routes open, and pushing for treaties that ensure the widest possible access to foreign markets (or “free trade”). Very occasionally American presidents will depart from this internationalist agenda, as Nixon did when he unilaterally withdrew American support for the Bretton Woods system of financial exchange in 1971, or as George W. Bush did when he went to war in Iraq in defiance of the United Nations. Still, despite these exceptions, American commitment to internationalism has been remarkably robust.
Donald Trump wants to change all that. As Thomas Wright, the director of the Project on International Order and Strategy at The Brookings Institution, argues:
In sum, Trump believes that America gets a raw deal from the liberal international order it helped to create and has led since World War II. He has three key arguments that he returns to time and again over the past 30 years. He is deeply unhappy with America’s military alliances and feels the United States is overcommitted around the world. He feels that America is disadvantaged by the global economy. And he is sympathetic to authoritarian strongmen. Trump seeks nothing less than ending the U.S.-led liberal order and freeing America from its international commitments.
raven
@D58826: And fucking with China does what?
MP
@GregB: More than the Pope?
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: I suppose we weren’t really using the postwar consensus anyway.
ChrisH
Maybe Palin has already figured out the next phase of the grift. Now that Trump is going to be President, he is the new establishment so he’s the new target for the anti-establishmentarians who want to bilk money from the credulous.
Betsy
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: yeah. Remember the bumper sticker during the W Administration that said ” I never thought I’d miss Nixon”? Well, there’s a new bumper sticker…
D58826
@Kay: I think there is another factory down the road that is moving to Mexico and the workers are asking just that – hey what about us? And that doesn’t include the 1300 carrier employees that are still going to be laid off
JPL
@D58826: I think that is true, but he doesn’t like to be embarrassed. His tweets suggest that he had no idea that he stepped into a hornet’s nest. Hopefully, he’ll learn from this, and walk away from the Bolton folks, he has attacked himself to.
@raven: China could easily ignore our calls to rein in No. Korea, but that is something Adam could speak to.
Adam L Silverman
@D58826: This is what I was referencing in my response to Iowa Old Lady.
https://balloon-juice.com/2016/12/02/were-all-going-to-die/#comment-6141967
Feathers
@Adam L Silverman: Also, plausible deniability.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: I think some rain in North Korea might actually help with the famine conditions…
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: My God, the “to do” checklists the national security folks must have started by now have got to be freakin’ *staggering*…
amk
@Kay: No, he won’t. He’ll pull out yet another bs of a lie about why that company didn’t deserve his largess and his nuttters base will swallow that too.
Miss Bianca
@Ithink: It’s even better in the original German.
D58826
@JPL:
Hopefully he learns that there are no do-overs.
JPL
@D58826: That won’t happen.
Mary G
House update, John, please? Or are you in the phase of “if I don’t talk about it, I won’t have to think about it” of remodeling? Or pet pictures?
We are getting a cold dry Santa Ana wind here that has the humidity down to 20% and my joints killing me. I barely slept last night and am considering hiding under the covers and weeping all weekend.
Lizzy L
@D58826:
I had read this before. I want to point out, this is not Trump speaking — this is someone pretending to extrapolate some kind of coherent foreign policy position out of T’s gibberish at his rallies and in the debates. I see no coherence in these three “key” arguments. How does America’s over-committed military (which I actually agree with, BTW) connect with T’s sympathy with Putin and other “strongmen” ? How is U.S. business disadvantaged by the global economy (he certainly seems to make money around the world) and what does T propose to do about it? Yeah, I know, tariffs. Does he think tariffs will actually help the U.S. economy, and does he even realize that other countries can impose tariffs too?
I think he genuinely believes that he is completely capable of dealing with issues of trade and diplomacy, that he does not need to know anything (hence, briefings are a waste of his time) and that everyone else should just shut up and step out of his way.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: do I need to send the Strangelove pic again?
Mike in NC
Spent a couple of weeks at the Naval War College during the summer of 2001. Specifically, the Naval Staff College where mid-grade foreign officers trained. Learned that Taiwanese officers were not permitted to wear their uniforms in class photos, and instead of being identified by their rank, they were always referred to as “Mister”. Apparently a longstanding policy not to piss off PRC.
raven
This a good football game.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman:
Damn it, Adam, you split an infinitive!
Of course you realize…
BBA
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: You threatening me? ; )
ETA: I’m beginning to feel like “Dr. Strangelove” was actually a documentary.
mai naem mobile
@Amir Khalid: the Bee Gees songs just plain need to be Trumpy’s accompanying music through his presidency – NY Mining Disaster,I Started A Joke,Night Fever,Words,Jive Talkikg,Staying Alive,Tragedy,I Just Gotta Get A Message To You…
Adam L Silverman
@Mike in NC: No longer the case. The Taiwanese International Fellow my final year at USAWC was one of my aikido students. He wore a suit and tie when the American officers did and his equivalent of class As or Bs when the American officers wore there’s. Other than leadership, everyone was on a first name, no rank basis among the student, faculty, and staff as its a schoolhouse.
p.a.
Isn’t there a fictional character, I can’t place, who, whatever s/he says, the listeners hear what each individual wants to hear. tRump is like that to his supporters.
Saruman at his peak maybe?
RaflW
Heard this interview while in my car this afternoon. Former Mexican President Vicente Fox called Trump a demagogue and a liar on the BBC today. Fox also called Trump’s manufacturing/jobs/trade/imports policy “crazy” and that it would cost both the US and Mexico since our southern neighbor also imports a lot from us.
I wonder if at least some of our major trade partners will be able to deal with Trump’s NPD better than our press. Their incentives are very different, they don’t have to f-k around with all the false balance crap that the US press has lashed itself to.
D58826
Der Fuhrer is defending himself by saying we sell billions of dollars of weapons to Taiwan. Is that still true after 1979?.
Some tweeters are saying we still have a defense treaty with Taiwan while others say it ended in 1979. Who is right?
It seems that China is taking the fig leaf approac that he isn’t President yet. Kinda lets Obama slide past a crisis. But they will remember what he did and it will make relations between the two governments even more tense then they are now.
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: let’s not take history lessons from twitter, and wait a little while until there’s a Voxsplainer or TPM run-down, perhaps?
D58826
@Major Major Major Major: @Major Major Major Major: THat’s why I asked the questions.
schrodinger's cat
@RaflW: NPD?
Aleta
@D58826:
And he will cost the US a lot of money as he tries to change this with his ‘deals.’ Just hope the cost is not in lives and major military blunders. Superpowers don’t last forever.
p.a.
After 6 months of his presidenting the rest of the world is going to donate $ to build a wall around this whole fucking country. And a roof.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodinger’s cat: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
eemom
“Hey, lighten up, y’all — there’s still 7 whole weeks before an ignorant maniac becomes leader of the free world!”
Nope, can’t imagine him not being president yet being of much comfort to the Chinese or anybody else on the planet.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: It could be worse.
RaflW
Oh, and for those of us not yet under the bed, I offer these two tweets from Jeet Heer
And that’s not even looking at AfPak, Iran/Israel, etc.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Nashville Police Department.
Brachiator
The Guardian reports this little nugget.
chopper
oh FFS we are so fucked. this fucking guy.
InternetDragons
@Iowa Old Lady:
What is he thinking?
Well. Ethically I am not supposed to engage in diagnosis-at-a-distance, but at the moment I am in “Fuck It” mode. So here ya go – a handy list of the traits associated with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Any time you find yourself asking why Trump does the horrible, outlandish stuff he does every day and will continue doing for the next four years, I guarantee you’ll find the answer somewhere on this list (which, by the way, comes straight from the official diagnostic manual for mental disorders):
Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
On the bright side (?), it’s relatively rare to see an individual hit EACH AND EVERY ONE of the characteristics associated with a diagnosis. He’s…special that way.
So at least we have a definitive reference point for understanding where he’s coming from.
Not that there’s any comfort in that.
D58826
@RaflW: That is so reassuring. Will add three more pillows to stick my head under when I go to bed tonight :-)
BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: Tragedy.
Amir Khalid
It seems to me, the problem with trying to figure out what Trump is thinking stems from the underlying desire to assume that he is in fact thinking: drawing on a body of knowledge to reach conclusions about what’s going on, and to plan actions in the short, medium, and long term. So people see patterns and a consistency they want to see but really isn’t there.
He doesn’t have any such knowledge, he reckons he, World Champion of Deal-making, doesn’t need it. That’s why his beliefs can change from day to day, or even in mid-sentence. So he’s not thinking, he’s going on gut feeling. it preserves the unpredictability which he says he values; but which frightens allies and non-enemies who need America to be consistent enough in word and deed for them to plan their own words and deeds.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@p.a.: @BillinGlendaleCA:
Good lord, what a terrible voice! Haven’t heard that song in years, decades… blech.
Chris
@Adam L Silverman:
Kevin J. Anderson has a fairly terrible reputation in Star Wars fandom. I am sad but not surprised to hear that he’s not doing any better in the Duneiverse.
(I still haven’t finished the original books. The first book is an utter classic, the second just didn’t strike me as having lived up to it. Have not tried the third yet…)
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: The trilogy works as a unit. I, as well, prefer the first book.
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus:
The two sets of DUNE prequels aren’t bad at all, they just don’t live up to the original trilogy (what could?)
@Chris: it’s probably not a bad shortcut to read the original DUNE, then head straight back into the “HOUSE” prequel trilogy, and then if you’re up for it , head further back into the “BUTLERIAN JIHAD” trilogy.
Aleta
All these calls and visits from foreign leaders, which team orange (known for lying) is quick to claim were initiated by the other side. Does this normally happen immediately after a pres. election? Is this more of his compulsion to one-up everyone, in this case Pres. Obama? Has to show that he’s the king now and (according to his thinking) dominate the sitting president? It’s boy school stuff, military school stuff. Disrespectful to our real president.
Morzer
@Adam L Silverman:
Kevin Anderson’s policy is just to write as much as possible, quality control be damned. He’s been pretty explicit about that in interviews over the years.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
The first three are generally excellent. I have a weakness for God Emperor and think of Children as probably the weakest of them. As for what followed, well, I console myself with the idea that Herbert had probably been possessed by some malign external force, possibly L Ron Hubbard.
Morzer
@Amir Khalid:
The problem with Trump is that he really does believe his own horseshit, encouraged by contemptible fools like Conway, Gingrich and the rest of the sordid rabble that joined his cavalcade of idiocy, racism and arrogance. I don’t know how he’s going to react to being told “No!” by reality enough times, but I suspect it will be the most memorable tantrum the world stage has ever seen. I just don’t see how a man like that can make it through two years to the midterms, never mind a full presidential term.
As for the conflicts of interest, even Dubya’s ethics lawyer thinks they are a bridge too far:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-emoluments-clause-bush-ethics-lawyer-electoral-college
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: My favorite characters were Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck, which probably says something about me. Hence the appeal of the first book.
eemom
I’m so old I remember that when Obama was president-elect, one of the Gaza wars was going down, and he was repeatedly asked about it by media morons, and each time he responded that “we can have only one president at a time,” and that he’d have plenty to say about it after his inauguration, but not before.
Barack Obama, followed by……that. That fact alone disgraces this country for all eternity.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
I liked Duncan Idaho. Thinking of axolotl tanks reminds me of matoko-chan, or whatever she most recently called herself. I hope she’s surviving the Trumpzi rabble. Someone keeps popping up on Charles Stross’ antipope site that sounds remarkably like her, but even more obscurely pretentious. It’s quite a performance, if you like late period X-files paranoiac ranting.
Amir Khalid
@Morzer:
It’s no consolation, is it, that Trump sincerely believes in his own horseshit — that if he slings enough of it, he can win in any situation. He’s lost plenty of arguments, I’m sure, but one of his coping mechanisms is defining victory so that he always wins. But I’m not so sure we’ll see him put on the mother of all loser tantrums. Some one will have warned him such a tantrum could really hurt the US, and there’s always a chance he might listen for once.
Larkspur
@Mary G: Oh, Mary G, I hear you. Getting under the covers this weekend may be your best tactic, but be sure to stash water bottles at your bedside, because with Santa Ana winds, low humidity, and weeping, you’re going to need to stay hydrated. Promise, or else I’ll worry. Kthx.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: No thank you to the m_c vibes. I liked Idaho and Halleck partly because of the fencing style. I was starting to get interested in the sport about the time I read the book. The idea that all the fast work with the sword was done to distract from the dagger that slowly moved through the shield. Both as metaphor for politics in that world and as a total contradiction of European fencing, even in the days when sword and dagger were common. The sword was always primary.
Morzer
@Amir Khalid:
It’s not remotely a consolation – it’s one of the most terrifying features of the present situation. I suspect that Trump has begun to realize that there are serious obstacles to most of his grandiose wish list – and that’s why he’s conducting the “victory” tour -he wants as much adulation and reassurance as possible before awkward questions are asked, plus the chance to whip his supporters up to the point where they support the massive round of racist vote suppression legislation that is obviously coming down the pipeline. I really don’t see how he makes it through two years without causing a disaster or massively embarrassing himself and the country in public. He’s already nakedly corrupt and behaving like a child with a new toy when it comes to diplomacy. What’s the next stage? The crash after the sugar high.
Adam L Silverman
@Chris: @Morzer: I’m aware. The House of books that Herbert’s son did with Anderson and the Butlerian Jihad books are almost impossible to read. However, the books they did set after the original series, as well as the Insert Name Here of Dune books were enjoyable, but as just about everyone has indicated, none of them lived up to the original. So a lot of misses and a few solid hits.
Morzer
Not at all. All you require is a self-flogging machine and an automatic gruel-dispenser, plus a set of shackles to keep you at your desk.
Adam L Silverman
@Morzer: That would make them almost as difficult as Skocpol’s book on revolutions. I do not have any idea how one can write a book about the concept of revolutions and make it so dull.
Morzer
@Adam L Silverman:
Having met Theda Skocpol, I find it entirely credible that her writing would be monumentally tedious. She has a naturally bureaucratic mind.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
How do you say Skocpol’s name? I’ve always wondered that. I’d guess it’s [skŏkpōl], but I know it could well be something else…
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: A very dear person to me just taught a course on revolutions. She referenced Skocpol’s frameworks, but found more interesting reading for her students.
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus:
Mine too. Don’t know what that says about either of us. I first read Dune in seventh grade and have read it many times since. The sequels got progressively worse, IMHO, and I eventually gave up on them. Can’t remember now which was the last one I read.
SFBayAreaGal
@Omnes Omnibus: One of my favorite scenes out of many favorite scenes from that movie.
Omnes Omnibus
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Theda.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you so, so much.
Omnes Omnibus
@O. Felix Culpa: Decent people trying to behave honorably in a tough situation – plus swords.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFBayAreaGal: It is so simple, obvious, and brilliant.
SWMBO
@efgoldman: You both assume President “Deadbeat Donnie” that hasn’t paid contractors for work they did for him will actually give a shit about some other company’s employees? If it doesn’t get him attention, they lose. And if they’re losers, why should he help them?
Morzer
@O. Felix Culpa:
I like to think that Gurney voted for Sanders in the primary.
Morzer
@Kay:
It’s great politics until you realize that most of the jobs aren’t going to be saved. Plus the fact that the local voters will pay for the bribe that Trump gave the company. It’s just another con – and the Democrats should be able to hammer Trump for it day and night if they are agile enough.
Omnes Omnibus
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I use first names on occasion. It’s fun. I’m a lawyer; you are an MD. Hi, it’s Omnes and Tom. And so on. I only do it if the other person gets snippy about titles.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Are you claiming to be omnescient? I keep meaning to ask you why “omnes” and not “omnia”.
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus:
Almost as good as sharks with frickin’ laser beams! Hmmm…now sandworms with lasers; that could be interesting.
ETA: Sorry, getting punchy. Time to sleep before my 3am post-election panic attack.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: Step the fuck off. Gurney was with Bill and he was with Hill. He wouldn’t deviate.
SWMBO
@Lizzy L: He could be following in a Formula 1 driver‘s footsteps.
Omnes Omnibus
@SWMBO: I doubt it.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nah. Gurney had some of that old-time progressive fervor in him. I can forgive Idaho for not voting because he was between lives at the time.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: Gurney loved the lady.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
So Chelsea is… Paul Atreides? Or is the idea that HRC obeyed the Bene Gesserit in this universe? Are the DNC the Bene Gesserit?
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Sadly, you are right. The knock-on effects will be horrific. We won’t be trusted as an international actor. Jesus Fuck, do you people know what that means? (I fight to not claw my face at night over this)
Lizzy L
According to The Hill, a variety of Republican lunatics, uh, legislators, are praising Trump’s conversation with the President of Taiwan. I guess they have to. It’s going to be interesting to see how long they can keep doing that.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/308609-gop-lawmakers-praise-trump-for-taiwan-call
FFS.
SRW1
@Lizzy L:
Tough guys talk smack, irrespective of the costs.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: No. And you should know the place where fact and fiction divide.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
2016 seems like a pretty good candidate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: Month and Day?
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
11/8
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: That would get a weird result. The next day would be different.
Lizzy L
@efgoldman: Pete King of NY is not waiting for the Rapture, I’m pretty sure. The rest of them, I have no clue. Who is Matt Salmon? The article says, “Salmon chairs the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific. He is a former missionary in Taiwan, and attended the recent inauguration of the new Taiwanese president.” Whoever he is, he and his friends and T are going to be running the country starting January 20th.
Armageddon has a certain appeal…
Omnes Omnibus
@Lizzy L: Get a fucking grip. Just do it.
Lizzy L
@Omnes Omnibus: I appreciate your concern. Sorry. I was being hyperbolic and a bit silly. I am not in the least suicidal, if that’s your worry — just tired.
Morzer
@efgoldman:
A lot of missionaries to Asia are evangelical Protestants and about as incoherently stupid as one would expect.
Morzer
Sums it up pretty damn well.
prob50
@SiubhanDuinne:
More like “I Started A Joke”.
prob50
@efgoldman:
Yes, because Trump scares the BeeGesus out of most sane and rational people.
rikyrah
@schrodinger’s cat:
Really enjoyed it
Dadadadadadada
@max: The people who spent 2000 and 2001 freaking out that Bush was going to start a war are the ones you need to listen to.
Matt McIrvin
@Dadadadadadada: An international crisis involving Taiwan was one of GWB’s pre-9/11 messes, wasn’t it?
Larry Dickman
@Morzer: Next steps, 2017: At some point if Trump crashes hard, it will be time get reborn and find Jesus, etc. His VP will be able to help in this area.
J R in WV
@efgoldman:
“How would you rather die…” shot by a jealous husband in 20 years or so, I’ll be in my mid-80s.
Regarding Kevin J Anderson, can’t write instructions for Ikea assemblage. Worst writer being regularly published. Characters so leaden they’re hazardous to be around too much.
Not as believable as L Ron H. was at his worst. Did try to read some of the later Dune books, Brian and Kevin added together don’t make a mediocre writer working together. Sad.
Dune was a great work of art.
Even the first movie was pretty good. The steam powered starships with drug-powered navigators were great, and the evil Emperor was positively Trumpian in his despicable evil. Literally blood-sucking as an appetizer, how bad is that?
ETA fix EFG’s quote
CaseyL
I stopped reading the Dune books after God Emperor. Seeing all the posthumous publications made me sort of angry on Frank Herbert’s behalf, his kid milking the series for all it was worth. IMO, the first book is the best, with the third next-best; the one between is little more than a bridge.
I hated the movie for many, many reasons; just thought it was awful all through. SyFy (when it still was SyFy) did a miniseries that was galactic leaps better. I don’t think you can do a single movie of Dune; there’s too much going on. The standard technique for dealing with that – take one plotline and focus on it – doesn’t work (again, IMO) because the subplots all interrelate and are important to understanding why things happen the way they do.