Everyone’s taking their shots at Mark Penn’s op-ed suggesting Democrats move to the center so I’l take my shot too. Let’s put these side by side:
The path back to power for the Democratic Party today, as it was in the 1990s, is unquestionably to move to the center and reject the siren calls of the left
On trade, Democrats should recognize that they can no longer simultaneously try to be the free-trade party and speak for the working class.
Opposing free trade is centrist now? Only hippies like Hillary Clinton like free trade I guess.
That’s pretty much what the whole article is like: on all actual issues, Penn recommends Democrats keep their current policies (immigration, health care) or move farther left (trade). There’s some bullshit about “free speech on campus” and “respect for religion”, but that’s more about fee-fees than policy.
And so it often is with Penn. V-chips and school uniforms weren’t a serious response to anything either. The trouble with Penn is that he’s all about “data-driven” mumbo jumbo — rebranding, microtrends! Even if it worked politically (it probably doesn’t), the whole fucking point of winning elections is to enact policies, not wank.
JPL
I want Trump to ditch NAFTA and put a tariff on steel and aluminum. I also want him to be a one term president.
Yarrow
The whole point for Mark Penn is to be paid for saying things. Looks like he accomplished that goal.
Major Major Major Major
No, those are dog whistles for trans people not being able to pee, restaurants refusing to serve gay people, and being nice to white supremacists.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
The path back to power for Dems has much more to do with recruiting dedicated candidates who are in touch with their local communities, and protecting voting rights, than with arguing over/aligning on a national agenda.
Kay
Propublica got confirmation that the Trump/Kobach plan is to run the state lists of names against a federal database to flag voters:
This is really bad. If you have a common name you better check your registration sometime after they fuck this all up but well before it’s time to vote. Timing will be everything.
There will be lots and lots of lawsuits. This commission is like a lawsuit generator. I count three lawsuits already and once they start with the false positives there will be hundreds- and that’s not even counting that states can sue.
Kay
O. Felix Culpa
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Yes. And getting all those registered voters to the polls with voting machines that actually work. Looking at you, Michigan.
Thoroughly Pizzled
I blame the fucking New York Times. At this point everyone should know that Penn is worthless. So why is the Times publishing him?
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
I agree. I don’t need to see Tom Perez on television, I want him to be recruiting candidates.
rikyrah
Illinois has a budget…. Finally!!
They overrode the veto of our repulsive Governor.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Uh huh
Uh huh
Keep on bringing it, Kay.
Kay
The Trump Kobach commission might actually turn out to be a positive. It’s getting a ton of coverage. Much more than normal, boring election process gets. It’s better it be a big public mess rather than quiet, effective suppression.
They’re already in court. Kobach already is involved in two lawsuits and they haven’t even had their first meeting.
I think voting rights people were really primed to fight and this is a giant target.
NotMax
That Overton window is a bitch.
Prescribing becoming Republican Lite is beyond foolish.
jl
@Kay: It’s an idiotic and malicious plan. The article says Kobach’s own BS voter fraud detection schemes had a false positive rate of 99.5 percent. What could possibly go wrong?
Anyone in a state that agreed to supply any information at all should call their stat rep or secty of state and protest.
Edit: I missed one of your comments above where you quoted the numbers for Kobach’s scheme.
?BillinGlendaleCA
a moron.
Mike J
Stupid policy and didn’t work as politics either. If promoting nothingburgers actually helped win elections I’d be all for it.
SatanicPanic
@Mike J: Trump’s border wall says hi
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
This is the clown who told Hillary in 2008 not to apologize for voting for the Iraq invasion.
This is the clown who wrote an op-ed attacking Obama in 2012 for hitting Romney on outsourcing.
Kay
@jl:
It’s disturbing how power mad he is- he was the Sec of State of Kansas. Why did he set up a special matching system? Who said Kansas was the national voter clearinghouse? I object to that. I don’t want to be part of Kobach’s national scheme. We elect state officials to do this work. No one elected him national poll judge.
It’ll be amusing to watch how many of the upcoming lawsuits argue federalism. A lot will. This is a massive over-reach on the part of the Trump Administration. They are way into issues that are governed by the states.
jl
I tried to read the Penn piece but just too damn much mindless tripe and boilerplate. I don’t like tripe.
If I were running for prez, I’d campaign on going back to global multilateral trade negotiations, which fell apart around 2008/9 when the US walked away and started with the BS regional treaties. And make sure to emphasize that the US left them because the US corporations couldn’t get everything on their goody wish list, when they had to negotiate with Brazil, India, So Africa, etc. I’d say that I’d insist on stronger international environmental and labor protections with enforcement provisions. Also would take the corporate dispute resolution process down a notch, or several notches, if I couldn’t eliminate them.
I don’t know it it would work, but that is the solution. These global trade deals set the structure that promoted growth worldwide in the post=WWII world. Until 2008 when the US corporations decided that they weren’t getting enough freebies anymore and told the US to walk away from them.
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah:
Yay! I met Rauner at a work function when I was still in Chicago. He belongs to the pantheon of punchable faces.
dmsilev
@?BillinGlendaleCA: It’s more that he’s a parasite (was going to say leech, but they do have some legit medical uses). A moronic parasite to be sure, but the grifting is the heart of the issue.
Mike J
@SatanicPanic: Actually building the wall wouldn’t be a nothingburger, and would still be bad politics, at least for Democrats. Stupid policy works great for Republicans. Bold, brave, and stupid is what their base want.
zhena gogolia
I got to that page in the NYT yesterday and thought, Oh Lord, this will be on BJ tomorrow, just skip it.
O. Felix Culpa
@jl:
Take that back! Menudo is a tasty local specialty here in NM. Oh, you mean the effluent otherwise known as Mark Penn. Carry on, then.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@jl:
Seriously? You support NAFTA, PNTR?
I didn’t know you were a Neo-Liberal
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
Corrected for accuracy.
Kay
I always wondered why Marc Penn didn’t just become a Republican. He hates Democrats- the voters. He loathes us. He’s always bitching about one or another part of the Democratic coalition- it’s never just right enough for Marc Penn.
He likes Dem voters as long as they don’t expect, demand or even ask for anything. I think he would be happier as a Bloomberg Republican.
Major Major Major Major
@jl: That’s good policy, but it still has the political vulnerability that somebody like Trump can exploit by running a “tear them all up!” campaign. Not that good policy isn’t, you know, good in its own right. But I don’t know if it addresses the problem, it sounds like something Hillary would propose. Maybe it will get through the media filter if somebody other than her proposes it.
Jeffro
Speaking of assholes, Mike Flynn has begun trying to spin his way out of a jail term … supposedly he has given an Interview where he says he regretted giving that “lock her up” speech at the RNC almost as soon as he gave it
Uh huh
Tell you what Mike, you tell us everything you know about collusion and hacking and money laundering , AND give a nationally televised apology to HRC, and I’ll personally vouch for you and see if we can get a few years knocked off your sentence
Patricia Kayden
@Kay: So basically to purge the voting rolls of Democratic voters. Just as we thought. This is undemocratic to say the least.
TenguPhule
@O. Felix Culpa:
When Trump is on Deathrow, his only meals should be boiled tripe, breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Forcefed, if necessary.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
If it looks like a fascist, talks like a fascist and acts like a fascist, it just might be a fascist.
Patricia Kayden
@Jeffro: So what if he’s sorry about giving that speech? Isn’t it too late now to be sorry about something like that? The only thing I want to hear from Flynn is how he colluded with Russia (along with other Trump sycophants) to interfere with the presidential election. That is all.
TenguPhule
@Jeffro:
He couldn’t give enough free BJs in the world to buy any level of leniency.
Brachiator
Fuck Mark Penn and fuck this persistent bullshit that voters give a that’s ass about any rigid political orthodoxy. The newly elected president of France is a “centrist” who rolled over all the mainstream parties. Brits spanked the Conservatives, but declined to return Labour to power.
DougJ
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s about the fee fees of white supremacists is what I mean.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator:
As a wise woman once said, “What difference does it really make.”
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: True dat. Kobach has never hidden his anti-democratic mindset and now he’s given free reign to do whatever he wants by the Bigot-in-Chief. Perhaps I’m missing something but I hope that Democrats are prepared to sue Kobach if he actually takes steps to purge voter rolls.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
And if it still works to destroy democracy despite all of that, there’s always the pillage and burn option.
pattonbt
Fuck Penn and his ilk. It sucks losing elections. It sucks there is a core sect of voters who will vote against ALL of their personal best interests and functionality / deliverability of government so a phantom “other” gets a boot on their throat. Fuck ditching what makes the D’s a good, broad forward thinking party (with faults, warts and so on). No pandering to the racist, xenophobic, nationalistic, faux religionist, hateful assholes on the right.
It sucks D’s have to play a long game (and I believe they will win the long game). The short term consequences and day-to-day reminders of the hateful parts of our country are tough to deal with. But selling out what we will become for short term gain is wrong. Because lets be honest, there is not even a short term gain to what these types of assholes suggest. Why vote R light when you can just vote for the real thing?
O. Felix Culpa
@TenguPhule: Ok, as long as his only other option is durian.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
It inspired British pundits to new heights of comedy about Maybot. And set the reigning party on a one way crash course of another round of elections or rioting. Perhaps both.
dmsilev
@TenguPhule:
No, that’s all wrong. His meals should consist of organic kale, quinoa, and avocado toast.
hueyplong
The set of people who give a rat’s ass what Penn thinks has got to be pretty small. What he says doesn’t bother me because to be bothered I have to give a rat’s ass. Which I don’t.
dr. bloor
I actually thought Andy Stein was dead, and then a little Googling told me that it’s worse than I thought.
jl
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I assume you are joking.
TenguPhule
@O. Felix Culpa: Durian isn’t actually that bad if you have no sense of smell, which Trump obviously does. Stinky Taiwanese Tofu is better (anything that ZImmerman can’t stomach more then a mouthful of definitely belongs on Trump’s final meals)
Aleta
Just gotta say, what a meanspirited ugly-mouthed fraction of an agro-pretend man, that DJTJr is.
Patricia Kayden
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Did NAFTA have any positive impact on the great economy we had under President Clinton? Perhaps enough so that everyone doesn’t view free trade agreements as altogether negative.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: You would have a good point for 2016. But going forward, we’ll have 4 years of Trump Total Fail (that is assuming we are lucky and can scrape by with Total Fail, rather than bugfuck insane disaster).
And every reference to Trump and GOP should start with the phrase “Lying liars who lie all the time’.
Apocalipstick
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: NAFTA is a regional pact. Post says those are bad.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Five anti-American SC justices. Kennedy sold his soul with Bush v. Gore and threw away the rest with Citizens United. I’m seeing a lot of fuses being lit and I don’t think lawsuits are going to stop where this is going.
Iowa Old Lady
@Jeffro: Flynn is running scared. I only hope he can deliver Trump as a sacrifice to save his own skin.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
That’s John Roberts over there saying “fuck your precedents!” in his nice black robe.
Just saying.
Mike in NC
@TenguPhule: Smothered in ketchup, of course.
TenguPhule
And on a cheerful note, we are T-minus 25 days from a Federal Debt disaster which may wreck our national economy.
Yarrow
@Jeffro: Flynn’s going to prison. At this point the negotiations are over how long and what kind of prison. He’s also talking to save his son, who is also guilty of collusion with Russia.
TenguPhule
@Mike in NC: No Ketchup for him. Ketchup is for criminals who haven’t committed treason.
Major Major Major Major
@jl: fair enough, I suspect we’ll have to do a reclaiming-patriotism sort of thing that will be more tied to a personality than a policy anyway.
And Al Franken is too old.
In unrelated news, it’s starting to sound like the economy may be screeching to a halt. ADP hiring report is like 40% lower than expected and manufacturing slumped hard too.
sukabi
@Kay: they’re putting Crosscheck on steroids… The only thing that program was for was to remove folks from the rolls. They used it to limited effect in the last election. Looking to suppress on a national level.
Aleta
What a meanspirited bitter-tongued fraction of an agro pretend man that DJ Jr is.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: IOW, we are getting tired of the winning.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
And the only people who are surprised by this haven’t been paying attention.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I was tired of WINNING on my birthday.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: I don’t think anybody would expect something sort of random and sudden in July without any one precipitating event.
japa21
There used to be a comic called “There oughta be a law”. Well, there should be one that no person’s name can be removed from a list of registered voters without appropriate notification via certified mail allowing said person 9 months to respond. And even if the person does not respond, the name cannot be removed without going to court and getting approval. And the controlling authorities can only submit one name at a time.
Lizzy L
@Kay: The election fraud commission is despicable, but the last I saw 41 state governments told it to go pound sand, and the commission has no way to compel the states to cooperate, since much of what they ask for is against state law. So while what they want to do sucks frogs, I don’t see how they can do it without data.
Also, they are incompetent.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: Will be interesting to watch what increased interest rates do to it, if Fed does as expected. I think economists are still projecting around 2 percent growth. But no ‘Trump boom’ on the horizon.
I heard a forecaster on the radio news babble away about finally signs of a sustained uptick in real average wages. I’ve forgotten how many times I have heard that since the recovery began 6 or so years ago.
Kraux Pas
Deconstructing Mark Penn:
With democrats like this, who needs Republicans?
Who wants trade or immigration policy that creates broad prosperity among workers of all kinds? What we need is policy that punishes foreigners, does nothing to help Americans, but makes white Americans feeeeeel good.
Mark Penn completely buys the fallacy that not giving police officers carte blanche to abuse whomever they want is disrespectful to the police.
Who wants policy that actually helps people achieve good paying jobs for themselves in up-and-coming sectors of the economy? we need to pretend we can revive the horse and buggy builder industry, while slighting women and men who hold sissy jobs. After all, it makes white men feeeeeel good.
I’ll get back to you on political correctness. The Republicans were the ones miring themselves in bathroom issues and mostly lost where it was an issue. The more help for undocumented immigrants than natural born citizens bit is Republicans’ favorite racist lie. Besides which, much of the heartland declined all the help offered.
To be continued…
Patricia Kayden
@Kay:
Good. It is highly undemocratic, to say the least.
James Powell
@Jeffro:
He regretted it so much he waited almost a year to say so.
Patricia Kayden
@Aleta: Donald Trump’s kids sure are odious. They’ve gotten so involved in politics that they’ve opened themselves up to the same criticism aimed at their father. Normally the kids of Presidents are off limits but not these jerks.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Random? Its been clear for months that his people have no idea what the fuck they’re doing. It seems the very serious people with lots of money are only now starting to figure out that this is not good for business.
Major Major Major Major
@jl: hiring and manufacturing are pretty lagging indicators, right? I know hiring is. So this couldn’t be related to interest rates (if it’s indeed even happening, the dismal science indeed).
Smiling Mortician
@Aleta: True. But how awesome is Preet Bharara?
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: yeah, so why wait tip now? Random.
@jl: I had a reply about lagging indicators but it got eated.
Aleta
@Jeffro: “Almost immediately” regretted, but let it repeat play for months and didn’t speak up? Then probably still too cowardly to be truthful about what happened inside the campaign. Little weasel.
Major Major Major Major
Hm, guess I can’t comment.
ETA: sure, now I can ?
@TenguPhule: yeah, so why wait tip now? Random.
@jl: I had a reply about lagging indicators but it got eated.
TenguPhule
What could possibly go wrong?
This one’s for you, Kay.
The jokes don’t just write themselves, they stick themselves in the mail and lick their own stamps.
Major Major Major Major
Hm, can’t seem to comment but you’re all missing out on some primo stuff.
lollipopguild
@TenguPhule: That way the Russians will have easy access to all of the voter info.
Kraux Pas
Deconstructing Mark Penn, continued:
No, this is the fallacy of the right; that using taxpayer money for broad taxpayer services that help hardworking taxpayers maintain or improve their employment situation are handouts to the unworthy. We should only spend taxpayer money on billionaires and hope they deign to share.
::Looks to recent gun sale trends::
::Looks to the Supreme Court::
::Sighs::
Right, Democratic candidates are so disrespectful toward religion.
If you disagree with Republicans on a college campus you should refrain speaking out, lest you hurt their feeeeelings. This is the only acceptable version of politically correct speech policing. And I know when I think “disrespects people of various faiths,” the first thing I think about is Democrats.
there is no aspect of socialism that is in any way redeemable or relevant to the American electorate, let’s do away with Social Security and Medicare. Now which party wants to protect workers by ensuring illness doesn’t end their ability to work and helping to ensure they have adequate support to fight for fair wages, unions, and other such things? Which party is fiscally responsible? Methinks Mark Penn is not a good historian.
to be continued…
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Your comments have been especially great lately.
Aleta
@Smiling Mortician: I got a thing for him.
Kathleen
@Kay: Greg Palast’s book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy devotes Chapter 2(“Jim Crow in Cyberspace”) to how Florida purged voter roles in 2000 using ChoicePoint. He’s been on this story for a long time.
James Powell
@TenguPhule:
In other words 90% of the voters and 99% of the press/media
eclare
@Lizzy L: How is Theo? Is he home?
James Powell
@Kathleen:
And the entire world of Democratic politicians decided it just wasn’t worth looking into.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: aw, thanks, that’s very nice coming from you!
Aleta
@japa21: I like that. And must explain the reason why to the court in writing, and may be prosecuted for perjury or falsifying information.
Kathleen
Good news in Ohio. Kasich vetoed the legislature’s proposal to freeze Medicaid after 2018. Yesterday Ohio Dems texted request that I call my state rep (who’s a Rethug) and ask him to vote against veto override. Ohio Dems texted me today with message that as of today Republicans didn’t have the vote to override so I guess they’re regrouping. Baby steps.
Kathleen
@James Powell: It was going on in Georgia also. And many other states though I don’t know which ones off of the top of my head. The point is it’s been going on at state level since at least late 90’s and I wish Democrats had pushed the issue right after Florida.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@jl: (photo)
James Powell
@Kathleen:
My take is that since it involved denying voting rights to African Americans the PTB in the Democratic Party did nothing about it because they didn’t want to be accused of identity politics.
Jeffro
@Patricia Kayden: @TenguPhule: @Iowa Old Lady: @James Powell: lol
I think we are all of like minds here ?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I thought they hate us for our freedoms?
Mr P90X thinks you’re a dirty slut if you wear sandals in 95 degree heat.
The irony is a woman can’t get hired for Fox News unless they agree to show a hyper amount of skin.
TenguPhule
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Handmaid’s Tale was supposed to be a warning, not an instructions manual.
Aleta
@Patricia Kayden: ‘Left wing socialists’ are paying those ‘big government oppressive taxes’ that they’re siphoning off while they attack them–they’ve put themselves in play all right.
Patricia Kayden
@James Powell: Hope that isn’t true since minority voters are the backbone of the Democratic electorate.
James Powell
@Patricia Kayden:
Find me a white Democratic candidate for president who says this out loud.
Villago Delenda Est
Mark Penn is a Rethuglican. Fuck him.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: They are talking about 17 years ago.
Mike J
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: The dress code isn’t new. Sleeveless has been forbidden for decades, or for as long as it was ever possibly an issue.
Aleta
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: >a hyper amount of skin.
Eventually that may dawn on the big hater and he’ll do another 180.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: so hard to remember what’s new stupid and what’s just stupid.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jeffro: He still has to answer for his “fuck you” to Army regulations concerning emoulments.
schrodingers_cat
Mark Penn’s definition of a centrist == whatever Rs want.
Kraux Pas
Deconstructing Mark Penn, part 3:
True, some regulations may be onerous. But what is always lost in discussions of regulations is the fact that they are meant to protect workers, clients, the environment, the integrity of the industry, etc. Also, one of the most important technology-related regulations of today is net neutrality, which protects small internet businesses and web developers. This is under assault by, you guessed it, the Republicans.
If only the members of at least one of our parties, from the top to the bottom of the ballot, had plans and were fighting to rectify this. If only…
So I suppose we should do what Trump and Sessions want, jail addicts and curtail access to treatment.
Democrats are failing you if they don’t jump emphatically to support the first Republican proposal that comes down the pike to enrich the management of our most well connected contractors while doing little to improve infrastructure.
Sounds like the plan supported by nearly all Democrats and not quite enough Republicans for the past decade and a half. Except the last part. And if undocumented immigrants don’t feel safe, that is one thing that will cause ACTUAL material harm to law enforcement efforts.
Where’s the center again?
They don’t already???
And the party seems to have forgotten that community policing combined with hiring more police officers worked in the ’90s — and it will work again today.
Well, I’m not aware of policing policy across the nation, but this is precisely what my most recent Dem Governor, Deval Patrick, did. I’m pretty sure it’s well in step with the broader party as well.
One city=the whole country.
Political realities, mainly resistance from Republicans and unquestioned repeating of spurious claims in the media, forced Dems to drop some such provisions from the ACA. Republicans continue to not want to do anything to fix this.
Easily lost in today’s Orwellian media landscape is that Republicans aren’t conservatives, but radical economic liberals and social reactionaries. Democrats are conservative liberals for the most part.
As opposed to the unaccomplished showboat they nominated last year.
But without descending into identity politics.
I give up.
Fin.
TenguPhule
@Kraux Pas:
You need a new safe word.
Another Scott
Nancy tells us that the Penn piece was co-authored by a guy (Andrew Stein) who endorsed Trump.
Hmmm…
Cheers,
Scott.
Aleta
@Kay: Does it look like any suits could be brought directly against Pence? (Not optimistic but if he could be charged …)
jl
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Is that the dog that threatens to poop on your head? I think that is OK at BJ, one of the premier pet blogs of all history.
Kraux Pas
Don’t you watch the MSM? Democratic activists must be held to a higher standard of respecting others (or any other issue) than elected Republican politicians.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major:
Yes. I’m not defending the stupid rule, just pointing out that Paul Ryan isn’t responsible for this particular piece of stupidity.
When the rules are vague like “professional dress” they’re hard to follow. At least if you’re a guy they can loan you a tie.
Kraux Pas
@TenguPhule:
I can find pleasure in some mildly torturous experiences, flushing out half or more of the fallacy in a Mark Penn piece is not such an experience.
Aleta
@Another Scott: A godless traitor who’s opposed freedoms and broken up families has “issued a battle cry for ‘family, for freedom, for country, and for God.'”
TenguPhule
@Mike J:
There are plenty of stupid laws still on the books. But only complete idiots still enforce them,
TenguPhule
And as a note, Hawaii and Alaska are now officially within missile range of North Korea’s ICBMs.
And Trump is the one calling the shots.
Thanks a lot, Republicans. //
Steve in the ATL
@Mike J: many people don’t realize that tying a tie is the same knot as tying a shoe, though you have to be more precise with it.
You’re welcome.
Shalimar
@Kay: If those 200 false positives are all people named Manuel Rodriguez and they also are kept from voting, I’m pretty sure Kobach considers that a win even if they are adult citizens with no criminal record.
Steve in the ATL
@schrodingers_cat:
QFT, my fellow American
Mike J
@TenguPhule: Pelosi enforced the same rule.
Or to be more honest about it, the capitol police are enforcing the same rule they have since 18something, and speakers of the house have only very rarely had any reason to talk to them about it. Sure it’s a dumb rule, and Ryan is a dumb man, but this one isn’t on him,
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: A bow tie, sure. Four in hand, Half-Windsor, and Windsor, not so much.
raven
@Steve in the ATL: The picture you asked about was taken in Champaign-Urbana in 74.
Mike in NC
@Mike J: I read an article someplace about a bank (?) manager in the Miami area who prohibited employees from wearing “cotton below the waist” at any time of year. Presumably that didn’t include underwear, but who knows?
geg6
Fuck Mark Penn. Do the opposite of whatever he says and you’ll be successful. He’s poison.
Ohio Mom
@Kathleen: It sure is a weird feeling, cheering Kasich on.
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: You know there’s more than one way to tie a necktie, don’t you?
Ben from Virginia
Yeah why see what worked with Bill Clinton when we can have “genius” strategies like this instead.
Seriously Democrats need to denounce that shit ASAP.
Not saying we should go whole hog Mark Penn and uncritically copy 1990s style Dem politics, by there are some strategies we could pick out-especially rhetorically.
Gin & Tonic
@Gin & Tonic: Shakes fist in general westerly direction.
TenguPhule
@Mike J:
You sure about that?
debbie
@Mike J:
Women’s pantsuits also caused a stir, as I recall.
Mike J
@TenguPhule:
Chances are most of the US is in range. When China tested their first ICBMs, their first five tests were less than full range. North Korea has a harder time testing missiles since they don’t want to loft it over Japan. The straight up/straight down is harder to pull off with a longer burn time. Jeffery Lewis says they can probably already hit NYC.
Ben from Virginia
As to respecting religion: the emails leaked from Podesta which openly mocked Catholicism no doubt cost us very valuable votes in PA, MI, and WI.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@TenguPhule:
Final meal should consist of a gourmet medium rare burger with arugula and dijon, so he can, in that meal, realize what he missed…
Gin & Tonic
@Ben from Virginia: They did nothing of the sort. Stop feeding us Republican bullshit, SVP.
raven
@Mike J: Who the fuck is Jefferey Lewis?
Major Major Major Major
Mobile pie filter works great!
Omnes Omnibus
@Ben from Virginia: You can’t possibly be this stupid, can you?
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t wear spread collars so keep your four in hand!
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: rhetorical question, non?
Mike J
@raven: Arms control wonk.
.
SiubhanDuinne
Is there any chance that, while in Hamburg for the G20 summit, Trump will give a speech that includes the line “Ich bin ein Hamburger”? I would pay good cash money for that.
japa21
@Ben from Virginia: The same way Trump arguing with the Pope hurt him in those same states.
ETA: Sorry, I should know better than to respond to BfV. IIRC, Ben is the one who argued the Dems should ignore all the minorities and not fight for their rights.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Ben from Virginia:
Your concern is noted. Now go fuck off and die, preferably in a fire.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Is this some new troll?
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: it’s that jackass Becnel from last year.
Ben from Virginia
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
And the left begins to embrace the same kind of epistemic closure that the right did which led directly to Trump, and is now leading some on the left to support vile Saudi apologist / anti-Semite Linda Sarasour.
Ninedragonspot
@TenguPhule: stinky tofu in Taiwan is delicious, especially when mixed with intestines, duck’s blood and dosed with hot sauce. A night market staple!
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: Oh. My bad.
Mike J
@TenguPhule: CBS says the rule is old and they’ve had reporters in the capitol since the 30s. Who’s the source for your quote?
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus: Obviously he is, as indicated by prior postings.
Also, responding to a comment of yours a couple threads back, yes, Arcia is unbelievable. For a while he was all field, no hit; now he is both. Not sure if I want them to be a buyer or not this year. Hate giving up prospects.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Mais oui.
@Gin & Tonic: We believe it to be a retread of Hollandaise Bechemel.
Jeffro
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m good with him paying for that in lashes or the equivalent
Another Scott
@Mike J: Reuters: Russia says it wasn’t an ICBM.
It (apparently) only had 2 stages. AFAIK, most/all modern “true” ICBMs have 3 stages (but I’m no expert).
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@japa21: The ice cream and the run down. Just awesome My mom has a crush on him.
NCSteve
Oh jeebus saves Greenstamps, of all the odious Old Clinton Hands I hoped had been buried forever by the 2008 debacle, this asshat is second only to that festering pile of motile excrement Lanny Davis.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: he’s so concerned about the white working class, he voted for Stein.
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t blame her. And he doesn’t appear to have an inflated ego at all.
MomSense
@Mike J:
Grrreeat. Haven’t had a chance to read his take yet but I was really hoping he was going to say the NK ICBM threat was exaggerated bigly.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: That’s Dr. Stein to you, bucko.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Mike J: sleeveless isn’t something new. it was very popular in the 60s and 70s. Even this liberal used go sleeveless (photo)
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott:
Sounds like a shitty music festival.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: in Ben from Virginia’s dreams, it’s sexy R.N. Stein.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Ew.
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Dear Lord, did “Bob” decamp “Portland”? [Shudder]
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: BTW, I plowed through this. Kept turning the pages thinking “it has to get better.” It didn’t. Really could have used an editor. It’s just a pastiche of blog posts and newspaper columns. Thing is, the guy somehow convinced Harvard to give him a PhD in Econ based on more or less the same crap. I took a glance at his dissertation – 96 whole pages. WTF? I used to think a PhD from Harvard actually meant something.
Anyway, if you want a free copy of this book, let one of the FP posters know and I’ll mail it to you. I see no reason to keep it around.
trollhattan
@Mike J:
Yeah, good guy and qualified.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan: Not nearly enough words to be BiP.
Another Scott
@MomSense: Something to make you feel a little better.
TheBulletin:
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kraux Pas
@Gin & Tonic:
Hey, just because they didn’t actually mock Catholics doesn’t mean they didn’t cost the Democrats votes. Democrats should just stop saying anything
that can be deliberately misinterpreted by highly motivated, unscrupulous, and creative (in this regard) people.Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Ben from Virginia:
Maybe the fire referenced hereinabove can be periodically extinguished. You can be allowed to heal a bit and then the fire can be restarted before tossing you in again.
MomSense
Speaking of nukes.
Russians are suspects in hacks involving nuclear sites
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: after that stirring endorsement I’ll pass. I was guessing Friedmanesque but it sounds even worse?
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: I guess a millennial Friedman?
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: Hehe. :-)
Also too – NewMiner:
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
(“Yes, 2020 isn’t that far away…”)
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: oh, FML, I went to college with him, wonder if we’ve met. Sounds like an asshole.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: FML?
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Fuck my life?
Kraux Pas
@Omnes Omnibus: Fuck my life
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: Get with it, man.
ETA: Sorry, I slipped into Millennial for a second there.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: Not necessarily an asshole, just that snarky and self-referential blog-post writing style doesn’t hold up well when you’re going 200+ pages.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: Sounds like he slipped into Millennial for more than a second, then.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: I am familiar with FMTT, but that was new.
@Gin & Tonic: I assumed the M was “me,” at that point no L made sense.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus:
Unless you’re a pirate!
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
Many years ago I had the FML app on my phone. Some of the situations were so funny in such an awful way.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Or a cockney, I suppose.
Hungry Joe
Hey, now — Andy Stein was the violinist for Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen. Some respect, please.
efgoldman
@Major Major Major Major:
I pied him last week, but my list disappeared somewhere; maube because I switched browsers?