From The Washington Post:
HANOI — President Trump said Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin again denied his nation tampered in the U.S. presidential election last year when the two men spoke during brief conversations on the sidelines of an international summit…
“He said he didn’t meddle,” Trump said, answering questions in the press cabin on the Air Force One. “I asked him again. You can only ask so many times. … He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. He did not do what they are saying he did…”
“This is really an artificial barrier that’s put in front of us for solving problems with Russia,” Trump said. Of Putin, he added: “He says that very strongly, he really seems to be insulted by it and he says he didn’t do it. He is very, very strong in the fact that he didn’t do it. You have President Putin very strongly, vehemently, says he has nothing to do with that. Now, you are not going to get into an argument, you are going to start talking about Syria and the Ukraine…”
“There was no collusion,” Trump said on the plane. “Everybody knows there was no collusion.” The president added that he is determined to enlist Moscow’s help to end the civil war in Syria and to ramp up pressure on North Korea over its nuclear weapons program.
He said the investigation into his campaign’s ties with Russia could hurt those efforts. “I think it’s a shame that something like that could destroy a very important potential relationship between two countries that are really important countries,” Trump said…
Trump did not answer when asked during the flight to Hanoi whether he believed Putin’s denial of the tampering.
“Every time he sees me, he says, ‘I didn’t do that,'” Trump said, “but I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it. … I think he’s very insulted by it and that’s not a good thing for our country.”
The Russia investigation is an “artificial Democratic hit job” that “gets in the way,” Trump added. “And that’s a shame. Because people will die because of it” in Syria and elsewhere. “It’s artificially induced and that’s shame.”
So, to recap, all U.S. intelligence agencies agree that Russia meddled in our election, but the KGB-trained autocrat accused of masterminding the interference denies it, and that’s good enough for Trump. Nothing more to see here. Move along.
Also, note how Trump raised the stakes on the investigation into his campaign’s collusion with Russia: “people will die because of it.” This tells me Trump will try to shut the Mueller probe down, and he’ll attempt to cast himself as a heroic lifesaver when he does.
Open thread.
rikyrah
Uh huh
Uh huh ???
stinger
Perfect post title.
japa21
OT, but Penzey’s is at it again. The owner is mincing no words in his email which talks about Veterans’ Day.
Another Scott
Reposting from downstairs. TheHill:
I thought it was strange that Donnie used the exact same description after his previous discussion with Vlad.
At best, Trump is Sundowning.
He’s brain damaged and incompetent (in the technical sense).
How much longer do we have to endure him? :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
And then Putin gave him definitive proof that Obama was born in Kenya.
debbie
Cute matching shirts. Such looks of tenderness in both of their faces. However, I share the look passing between the two women in the background: Inperceptable eye roll and “Oy.”
JMG
@debbie: The people in the background are always the most interesting part of any Trump live action photograph.
JPL
@Another Scott: Who you gonna believe? It doesn’t matter, because Trump is going to use it, to rid us of that pesky investigation.
japa21
@Another Scott: So Putin must be lying by having his press secretary deny they spoke about it. Or, Putin is lying when he says he wasn’t involved. Or, most likely, based upon prior experience, Trump is lying about everything.
hellslittlestangel
I believe Putin’s exact words were, “Russia did not interfere in the US election. Now, why don’t you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?”
Ian G.
Let’s see, on one side we have one of the world’s most supremely talented gangsters, on the other side, a mentally ill D-list celebrity surrounded by 4th rate con artists and cosplay Nazis. Yes, this is definitely a fair fight of wits and cunning.
WereBear
And I suspect there was never a lot of there there, anyway. I would have to be running a high fever while being concussed to act the way he routinely does.
Another Scott
“Up in Smoke” is on IFC now. They just showed a shot of a gas station where gas was $0.60/gal.
Doesn’t seem that long ago…
Cheers,
Scott.
Lurking Canadian
Mr Capone assured me he has nothing to do with boot legging or rum running. As far as I’m concerned, that ends things.
– Donald J Ness, Eliot’s dumber twin brother
germy
japa21
Trump obviously believes that repetition makes him sound more honest, whereas it really shows him just to be an idiot.
Gin & Tonic
If Donnie did ask him (and it’s unclear he did), then what in the ever-loving fuck did he expect him to say? “Yeah, sure, we hacked the election to install you over that evil bitch.” Really?
This guy is even stupider than I thought, and I already thought he was a cretin.
Mary
I can believe that Putin didn’t do it. In fact, I’m 100% confident that he delegated those tasks to various underlings.
JMG
So I got dunked on by my oldest niece yesterday. She’s the family news service, and calls here about once a month from where she lives in the Bay Area to check in on what’s doing. As it happens, Alice is away this weekend visiting her sisters in DC. My niece asked me what I would be doing as a bachelor. I answered honestly that I would be getting Chinese takeout and watching basketball on TV. She then said, “why don’t you do that in your underwear to get the full experience.”
Frankensteinbeck
He already did. He can’t do it directly, and Sessions refused. Then Trump whined that Sessions should quit, and Sessions ignored him. I see no evidence this dynamic will change any time soon. The only reason I am not positive is that I don’t know why this dynamic exists in the first place.
Ken
Every time, huh? We need to find someone that Trump interacts with weekly, who’s willing to start every conversation with “I haven’t had sex with your wife.”
hellslittlestangel
@japa21: I’d have believed him if he’d said, “very, very, very strong.” A mere two verys was very, very, very unconvincing.
clay
@Another Scott: He could be sundowning, but I think it’s more likely that he knew he was supposed to bring up the meddling to Putin, but didn’t because a) he’s a coward who can’t confront someone on an equal footing and b) didn’t want to anyway.
So he pretends to the press that he brought it up, and he makes up the response that best suits him. Whole conversation, faked. I wouldn’t put it past him.
At this point, it’s not even the word of the intelligence agencies. There’s enough open, verified information out there — about Facebook ad buys and troll accounts, about the hacking of the DNC and Podesta, about Twitter bots, about Russian attempts to connect with various members of Trump’s circle — that to still claim that Russian interference didn’t happen is simply to deny reality.
Of course, it would not surprise one bit to learn that Trump isn’t aware of all of this, since he only gets his information from Fox and Breitbart. And I’m not even kidding about this —he probably has no idea what was said in all those Congressional hearings, or what’s been documented by all the newspapers. He doesn’t read, and who’s going to tell him?
clay
@japa21: Also, he has a small vocabulary.
TS
I near threw up looking at that picture – he must owe these people billions – or he thinks it is fun to turn the world upside down. Coming from a country that used to depend on the US as a friend and ally in all things – it’s downright frightening.
smintheus
It’s not about Mueller so we should stop calling it the ‘Mueller probe’ and refer to it instead as the ‘treason investigation’.
Noncarborundum
@clay: Small but optimal.
Frankensteinbeck
@Ken:
I doubt seriously Trump was Melania’s first customer. I don’t think that reflects well or badly on her, but if you want to mock Trump for who his wife has slept with, have fun.
MattF
@clay: The basic fact is that Trump is entirely indifferent to the truth. He seeks unconditional praise and validation– and ‘accuracy’ is just not in the mix of things that go into that.
smintheus
99 years ago today, at 10 in the morning, our troops were still being gunned down on the Western Front because a jerk of a president thought it would be a cute PR stunt to wait until the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month to let the agreed armistice begin.
Just a reminder of how much harm an obnoxious, lawless, preening chief executive can do.
smintheus
@MattF: That plus the fact that he spent his life as a con man.
Dr. Bloor
@hellslittlestangel: it’s like Demi Moore *strenuosly* objecting in A Few Good Men.
“The Ukraine” is just the cherry on the giant shit sundae.
Suzanne
GodDAMN, our president is so fucking dumb.
Like bussing tables on the night shift at Waffle House-level dumb.
Frankensteinbeck
@MattF:
Which is why I remind people to look for the very few things Trump has trouble lying about. They must be VERY dear to his heart.
OzarkHillbilly
OT but Heh: Denying Allegations, Moore Tells Hannity He Did ‘Not Generally’ Pursue Teens Put down the shovel, the hole only gets deeper.
Villago Delenda Est
Those who voted for him should be ashamed.
But they’re not.
We have a serious problem in this country with the 27%. They cannot be trusted to act rationally to assist in governing this country.
Frankensteinbeck
@Suzanne:
Can you pick a different analogy? The cultural disrespect people who work shit jobs get drives me nuts. Their lives are rough enough as it is.
Ken
@Frankensteinbeck: That did come out badly, didn’t it? What I was trying for is that it’s a tiny bit unusual for someone to deny something every time you meet. “Hi, Bob. Oh, I didn’t hack into your computer and copy all your files. How’s the wife?”
smintheus
@OzarkHillbilly: I love the line that Fox news is pursuing: “Roy Moore accuser worked for Clinton campaign as [sign language] interpreter, reports say”.
They think we’ve forgotten that Trump is committed to hiring only interpreters who wave their hands around ‘signing’ gibberish, so a competent interpreter couldn’t have worked for Trump’s campaign.
zhena gogolia
@debbie:
What the hell are they wearing? DJT looks as if he’s in his jammies.
MattF
@OzarkHillbilly: If only there was a way of digging a hole so it didn’t keep getting deeper. Let’s call it ‘Moore’s New Law’– ‘If you keep digging a hole, it keeps getting deeper’.
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
That “generally” effectively voids his denial. You’d think a judge would be aware of that.
germy
@smintheus:
they’re trying to portray her as a librul political operative out to destroy a fine, conservative man.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: Worse, I’d say. Why bother replying in a way that can be parsed so delicately?
mad citizen
@smintheus: Yes! This is an excellent idea. The branding is beautiful.
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid: Yes but he doesn’t remember Leigh Corfman at all! so he really truly never met her. Either that or all of his failed attempts at sex with teenaged girls have become so conflated that he only remembers the successful one. Either way he’s innocent in this instance.
Rms
So trump and Putin said the things we would expect them to say if they did the things we suspect them of doing.
Amir Khalid
Another story from that Guardian page. I don’t believe Trump reads long documents instead of watching TV, and neither does anyone else here.
geg6
Bishop Barber is bringing it.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
I was thinking updated Mao jackets, but that color…
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: There’s a Thing at the APEC meetings where every key participant wears the same shirt for a photo op. If I weren’t so lazy, I’d find and link to pics from prior years when we had a better President who also followed the tradition.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
I propose we change the name for short-man syndrome to “Stalin complex.” Yes, I’m aware that Putin is Napoleon’s actual height (5′ 7″), which isn’t actually that short. Shut up.
Corner Stone
@JMG:
“Who needs underwear?”
And that’ll take care of that.
WereBear
Counting down until Moore goes the “I’ve been forgiven” route.
Corner Stone
@geg6: I’ve been having a hard time following the discussion. Joy seems really pissed and keeps flinging the same questions back at her Republican Friend Caton. I’ve been recording it but now that I see they tossed it to full screen Moore I think this one is a wash.
Corner Stone
I sure as shit hope this provides the strength for another 20 women and/or boys to come forward to testify against Roy Moore.
Corner Stone
Clear your countertops! Investigators coming in hot!
Nora
@Amir Khalid: it really is such a ridiculous statement from Trump. First, there is no evidence that he reads ANYTHING, let alone that he reads so much he doesn’t have time to watch television.
Second, even if he didn’t watch any television and relied solely on what he read, he would have read about the Moore controversy — it’s been front page on most newspapers for the better part of a week.
Who does he think he’s kidding?
Betty Cracker
@Amir Khalid: He’s such a terrible liar, and yet so prolific.
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s for the end-of-meeting group photo of the attending heads of government. Usually it’s a traditional local garment, e.g. a barong Tagalog in the Philippines or a batik shirt in Malaysia/Indonesia.
Spanky
@zhena gogolia:
They’re on the same team in the World Leader Bowling League.
clay
Um, if he had permission from the mothers, doesn’t that confirm that he was dating girls young enough to live at home, i.e. TEENAGERS?!?
NotMax
Even odious, addled Reagan made a practice of at least mouthing “Trust, but verify.” Whereas Dolt 45 reacts like a puppy when its owner pretends to throw a ball.
bystander
Artful lawyer Moore just said that his accusers are “lying about something that happened 40 years ago.”
He then bragged about how many times he’s been investigated. While he enumerated some or all of them, he elided the outcomes of the investigations.
Matt McIrvin
@Frankensteinbeck: Richard Painter thinks they’ve set up Sessions to get convicted early so that he can be taken out of the chain of command and replaced with somebody who will fire Mueller. Seth Abramson disagrees. I kind of doubt they’re that much on the ball, but you never know.
germy
@clay: On his date with the courtroom young girl, he parked his car two blocks away from her house and made her walk to his car. Didn’t want to be seen by the parents.
germy
@Matt McIrvin: Wow! So much for “loyalty”
OzarkHillbilly
Falwell Jr. Defends Roy Moore: ‘I Believe The Judge Is Telling The Truth’
How long before Falwell’s victims start telling tales?
Mike in NC
@Amir Khalid: If a group of world leaders ever meet in the USA, should we expect them to all wear polyester red neckties that reach to their knees?
Immanentize
@Matt McIrvin: There is no conceivable scenario in which Sessions gets “convicted early.”. The fastest fast turbo jet quantum warp drive prosection would take YEARS to reach an actual conviction if Sessions fought it. And he would.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: I’m pretty sure Mueller knows that Sessions is the LAST person he wants to indict.
NotMax
@Mike in NC
Biking shorts and ‘wifebeaters.’
Elmo
@Amir Khalid: I tell my wife all the time – “Not really” means “Yes.”
(It’s in a much more benign context, of course, but still.)
Amir Khalid
@Betty Cracker:
If you keep practising the mistake, as Trump does, practice doesn’t make perfect. To get better at lying, he needs to practise the correction.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: just so. And the investigation is not a one man shop. Mueller could fly to Mars tomorrow and his team of arrogant prick prosecutors would stay steady on the trail.
Just like Bull Dog Drummond!
germy
@Immanentize:
Wouldn’t it be great optics if two Black cops (a man and woman) took him into custody? What a photo!
I’d frame it and hang it in my living room.
Betty Cracker
@OzarkHillbilly: He is a traitorous pig like his father before him.
@japa21: I gave some wingnut family members Penzy spice sets as holiday gifts last year. They love it! Little do they know… ;-)
Amir Khalid
@Mike in NC: ?
Only if Trump is still POTUS. Which is not yet certain.
Immanentize
That could be photo shopped…. Feels like something MAD Magazine would have done back in the day.
geg6
@Corner Stone:
Frank Shafer is being driven to volcanic levels of outrage by these people. It’s all just crazy and everyone is gobsmacked. It really is a moment for women. I’m mesmerized. It’s like when the tide turned on accepting gay marriage. All of a sudden, everything changed. I hope my instincts are right. The bonus is exposing the moral rot at the center of the religious right.
Mike in Pasadena
@Another Scott: Does Up in Smoke include the scene where a cop asks Cheech his name and he forgets it so he says “isn’t it right there on my license?”
WereBear
@OzarkHillbilly: In this hardcore fundie subculture, it’s a rare fellow who does not, I would say.
Brachiator
Just got up out here in California and turned on the Internets and see that Putin assured Trump that he did not interfere in US elections, and that Trump believes him. Well, that settles that. And he branded the former heads of intelligence agencies as political hacks. Wow. I feel so much better now. The upcoming week will be a breeze.
Knowing how Trump thinks, I think he will soon fire Mueller.
Can you say constitutional crisis for the GOP? I knew you could.
Regnad Kcin
@JPL: what investigation? I’m telling ya, he hit the pole and it’s a home run.
Mike J
@smintheus:
The House and Senate both, in theory, have their own probes going on, so “the Mueller probe” tells us which treason investigation we’re revering to.
No Drought No More
I’m inclined to take Trump literally when he says “people will die”. Barack Obama openly admired Ronald Reagan, which I thought damaged the democratic party best interests, much as Bill Clinton having extolled Richard Nixon was, in fact (Nixon taught Bill “what it means to an American”; once again, fuck you too, Bill). Trump however openly admires two professional murderers in Putin and Duarte, and he is CIC of America’s armed forces, with Sterling Hayden serving as his acting chief of staff. Trump will be returning to disgrace as surely as Nixon did upon his return from the parade in Cairo (where he stood in an open air car, hoping instead to die a martyr). Everything Trump has ever conceived himself to be is going, going, and will soon be gone. Everything. So yeah, I think it prudent, at the very least, to take him seriously, and at his word.
PsiFighter37
It’s a beautiful morning by the ocean in Santa Monica. I’m going to simply pretend I didn’t read any of giants and try to enjoy my time out here.
Amir Khalid
@germy:
Well, he had her mom’s permission. More likely he didn’t want to be noticed dating the underaged girl.
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
I expect Trump will fire Mueller, and of course he’ll claim it’s “for the good of the country” (like live liver transplants…). If this happens (won’t say “when” cuz I’m not certain, just believe it’s likely to happen) you’d think it’d be a constitutional crisis, but it won’t be.
Democrats don’t hold a single lever of power to directly thwart Trump doing such a thing, and maybe, maybe, a couple Republican Congress-assholes will tut-tut a bit, but none of them will actually do a damn thing and almost all of them will back Trump (that’s the lesson the right learned from Watergate). SCOTUS stays completely out of it of course.
The 2018 and 2020 elections are our only real recourse, nothing else will suffice to effectively address the damage now occurring with no end in sight.
NotMax
@Another Scott
Saw regular gas as high as $3.79 in town the other day. That’s a jump of 30¢ over the course of one month. (High test at $3.99.)
So old can clearly remember pulling up to the pump when the needle was hovering near E, saying “Fill ‘er up” and getting change back from a fiver.
Mike in Pasadena
@JMG: Back when I was a bachelor, I did not watch TV in my underwear. She has a good sense of humor. Note: about ten days ago it was 104 degrees. I ran around the house in my underwear for about four hours. TMI, I know. Full disclosure.
Another Scott
@Mike in Pasadena: Could very well be, based on the little bit that I paid attention to. :-) It’s full of (intentionally) stupid stoner jokes and sight-gags, but it’s kinda interesting too. Billin might like it (if he hasn’t seen it already) – to see the changes in the LA skyline.
(I didn’t have the sound on loud enough to pay attention – it was just background noise.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@smintheus: But it is about Mueller. Because once he’s gone there is no investigation.
Baud
@Corner Stone: Firing Mueller doesn’t automatically end the investigation, although it damages it significantly.
normal liberal
@japa21:
Time to restock a lot of spices, what with the holidays coming up. Thanks for the reminder about where to shop.
Baud
@germy: It would be my screen saver.
smintheus
@Baud: Firing Mueller could get Trump indicted immediately for obstruction of justice.
Baud
@smintheus: More likely, it gives Schneiderman care blanche to go crazy with indictments.
chopper
@NotMax:
“Louise, dump the milk! The cat drinks unleaded from now on!”
chris
@smintheus: Indicted by…? Hahaha.
MomSense
@geg6:
We really need to turn this moment into some changes in the law. The EEOC only provides 180 days to report workplace harassment. Many states have the same statute of limitations. I’d like to see at least 10 years and some real teeth in terms of consequences. The victims of harassment often suffer irreparable damage to their careers and that needs to change.
I also think we need to expand the understanding people have about why so many professions are dominated by men. How many women are driven out because of the harassment and assault?
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
@Immanentize:
No. If (when) Trump fires Mueller he’ll shut the whole investigation down. The justification for firing Mueller won’t have anything to do with Mueller himself, it’ll be claimed that the investigation itself is not only a fraudulent political witch-hunt, but an actual danger to the country.
Brachiator
@Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot:
Yep. Trump will fire Mueller. And the GOP will back him, no matter what. They learned that lesson very well from Watergate.
Hell, I bet if you ask the GOP leadership, they will tell you that the Watergate mess happened only because the Democrats and Republicans were unable to compromise.
Mike in Pasadena
@OzarkHillbilly: Holy Shit! Is that statement recorded? “Not generally” is an admission he did it a few times. Okay then. He will be a senator for sure now.
Villago Delenda Est
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Shorter than me, so I can lord over him.
MomSense
@Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot:
So far what I’ve noticed is that every time a move is afoot to sabotage or stop the investigation, the IC release just enough intel to let those actors know they should back off. I also think certain US Attorneys are in the loop and will be ready to proceed if the Special Counsel’s investigation is shut down.
Corner Stone
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): HOW SHORT IS HE?
Elie
On another front, but with great mortification, I learned that three black young men on the UCLA basketball team were caught stealing in China during a trip there. How long do you think before this is used by Trump et al to demonstrate the inferiority of black young people? I am just furious with them — with the opportunity that they had that they are pissing away — their naïve unawareness of how this will be used in this country right now… They are being kept in China for now but how horrible for them and for US, Americans of all types but it is just mortifying to black people for which this (at least to me), is a major embarrassment and deeply saddening.
Ok, I am done with my rant.
divF
@Another Scott: It was filmed in 1977, after the first oil embargo in 1973. 60 cents / gallon was viewed as a major shock, up from 33 cents before the 1973 embargo. The next shock came in 1980 when the price of gas more than doubled to 1.30 / gallon.
bemused
@geg6:
Schaeffer has always been quite, um, emphatic every time I’ve seen him. He doesn’t hold back his contempt and his old style pulpit pounding evangelical preacher cadence delivering his phony christian rants kind of amuse me.
Immanentize
@Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot: How does that actually happen? Do you fire what is now probably at least thirty career DOJ attorneys and a staff of up to sixty? I mean this sincerely. I know the DOJ. There are money laundering investigations, fraud, public corruption cases, and international interference cases going on in tandem. Grand juries which are Court supervised entities have been hearing evidence. These investigations cannot be just “stopped” by firing Mueller. Nor can they be called off
If you can explain the DOJ mechanisms that would allow that to happen?
bemused
@Amir Khalid:
Couple of may avorite internet comments today:
If you’re in your thirties and have to ask a girl’s mother for her permission to date her daughter, you need to date adult women.
Now we know what the age of consent is for Republicans.
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
@chris:
Exactly. There is NO ONE besides Congress (impeachment) who can indict the president for anything. Supposedly this is an “unresolved” constitutional question, but in actual practice it isn’t. Think about it: which federal prosecutor — knowing that he has no clear authority to do so — would deign to bring charges, and which federal marshals would then try to actually arrest the president on those charges knowing that the Secret Service would allow no such thing to happen/ So, it would never even be considered.
Immanentize
@MomSense: Agreed. It is a vast relentless bureaucracy.
But why spoil Le Carre fantasies?
ETA Remember also, after 9/11 we tore down the (mostly imaginary) wall between intelligence agencies and law enforcement. Still plenty of turf battles and info hiding, but part of the prosecution team is the NSA and the CIA (and the SEC, ATF, DEA, CDEA&E, etc.)
Aleta
I have an emotional reaction to this; so this isn’t a knowledgeable prediction. It has a chill like a threat, makes me think of him setting up to blame deaths (like civilian war death or mistakes he makes with our military) on the Russian investigation. At the least, conveys “back down.” Or he could be repeating a Putin remark about it.
NotMax
@Aleta
Also provides (false) cover for people to refuse to cooperate or testify because “national security.”
Tynan
Oh Christ he’s in my city. Right now. I really, really hope he’s gone before I see any side effects.
ETA: To Vietnam’s credit, I’d like to point out that when Obama was here none of my Vietnamese friends could stop talking about it. They were super excited, not least because of the bun cha incident. I’ve not heard a mention of Trump’s name, not once.
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
Working in the filling station, too many tasks
Wipe the windows, check the tires, check the oil, a dollar gas …
Brachiator
@Elie:
Uh, as soon as the story broke. On the other hand, a lot of sports fans don’t care, especially since the players are talented and the Ball kid is from a famous sports family. The kid’s father is unconcerned. Meanwhile, there is money to be made and the show must go on. From a sports writer Twitter feed…
Reality show. Now, that’s crazy, but where we are these days.
schrodingers_cat
Is it just me that gets annoyed by the constant refrain of
MomSense
@Immanentize:
I miss the worldl that didn’t seem too fantastical for a LeCarre novel.
It’s not just our beurocracy. The other four of the five eyes no doubt have some good stuff.
NotMax
Not normally the type of thing would bother to comment upon, but to Joy Reid: when you get home, burn that dress. Please.
(May look great in person, on TV it’s a hot mess.)
Corner Stone
@Tynan:
It’s like the TV commercials for Progressive Insurance Co. Everything around you is going to slowly start turning white.
Cheryl Rofer
Peskov is Putin’s press secretary.
Is he telling the truth?
If he is, why is he undercutting Trump?
Most of the answers to these two questions lead to the conclusion that the Russians want us to believe that Trump is a buffoon. For someone who hates to be laughed at, Trump isn’t very good at avoiding it.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
https://balloon-juice.com/2017/11/11/saturday-morning-open-thread-been-a-long-week/#comment-6629969
Immanentize
@MomSense:
Is that referring to what my wife said? Did I tell you peeps that? When I told her I would miss her, she said, “I will miss the whole world.” It makes me happysad to remember that.
The last point is a good one, this is not an internal, national-only investigation….
Cheryl Rofer
@Aleta: I interpret that, in the full context of the remark, to mean that the war in eastern Ukraine will continue, and the deaths it is causing will continue. I agree it’s got an ominous ring to it, but Trump just tosses stuff out there. Later he will say he predicted [whatever], even if he didn’t.
Immanentize
@schrodingers_cat: You are not alone. I think it’s bullshit. If the only person the House GOP can get to articulate that point is a freshman backbencher from Bumfuck, I don’t think it is in the realm of possible. Stay annoyed!
Zach
He might be right about the “people will die because of it” bit. The recent history of folks exposing Russian corruption dying mysteriously is pretty rich.
I suspect might have been afraid for his own safety in Russia in 2013… who knows why. The leaked testimony from his bodyguard, Schiller, is getting surprisingly little traction (though it’s been a busy week). Trump was staying in the Ritz Carlton, yet he and Schiller were worried about bugs in the hotel room and Schiller posted up outside for security. I’m no fake billionaire, but that seems unnecessary for someone who has no business in Russia?
The 2013 timing is interesting. Mid-2011 through election day 2012 was the nadir of Trump’s political reputation (Obama humiliating him at the correspondents’ dinner and then staging a bit of a political comeback with an OK 2012 election). Putin notices Trump’s public failure cratering his ego paired with the fact that he still had influence over a huge chunk of America’s idiots… gave Trump a hand up when no one else would.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
Remember that Dolt 45’s own lawyers refused to meet with him individually so that there would always be a corroborative witness to confirm that what Dolt 45 said they said was not what they did say.
Immanentize
@Amir Khalid: During WWII, my Dad said he and his buddies loved the signs at gas stations that said, “5 Gals per Buck”
ETA — “Dollar gas” in Chuck’s hit was not the price, but how little the driver, who was getting all the service, was willing to spend. Just too much monkey business.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
I don’t know. Let’s discuss it after Mueller gets fired.;)
MomSense
@Immanentize:
I had forgotten about that- was one of the most beautiful and heartbreaking comments ever.
I was thinking more about my feeling like what we are living though now is a LeCarre novel if he were a meth addict. At least the Cold War had a certain order about it, brutal and insane as it was.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: The Russian play has never been pro-Trump, it has been pro-Chaos. Trump is just a willing playmate/piece in that game.
Immanentize
@MomSense:
That right there is writing gold. Please let B. Cracker steal it and weave it into a thread some future day….
MomSense
@Immanentize:
Exactly. Trump being a “fucking moron” is a bonus.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: Cheryl, slightly OT if you are still here —
I will be teaching International Criminal Activity next semester, I cover a lot of ground but the NNPT is a big part of the middle of the class. Do you ever get to Boston? Wanna talk to my class?
Cheryl Rofer
@Immanentize: I’m not convinced of that. In any case, how does one separate the two?
Immanentize
@Zach: I also don’t believe that Schiller actually posted up all night outside the room(s) unless Trump was up to some hanky panky.
Cheryl Rofer
@Immanentize: Huh. Don’t get to Boston much, but might be able to work it in. Send me an email via the contact form.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: The separation comes when the Russians feel they can create even more chaos by releasing anti-Trump and/or anti-GOP information. Maybe I’m wrong, but they have it and if they wanted to create more problems in the US, that would be a good way to start some brawling.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: Will do later this weekend….
Zach
@Immanentize:
In the version I read, he didn’t claim “all night” … just for a while. Which is disappointing because “all night” would be an obvious lie (24-hour security requires >=2 people and your top guy doesn’t pull night shift) and make the pee tape even more likely.
Jeffro
@chopper: Bloom County FTW!
Immanentize
Off to get the Immp at Driver’s Ed. Shit! Happy he will be taking care of himself, scared he will take care of himself.
Duane
@japa21: They already have a racist flag. Leave the Stars and Stripes alone.
Corner Stone
@Cheryl Rofer: It has been alleged that Russian bots started working to bolster Trump immediately after he started his campaign. Now, you can say that he was the “most chaotic” potential R candidate and that is why they did that. But it also opens the door to considering they actually wanted Trump.
Cheryl Rofer
@Immanentize: I see the argument, but seems like overplaying their hand. Not that Putin hasn’t shown that he does that in other situations.
MomSense
@Cheryl Rofer:
I think it’s more than just chaos. Obama used trade and diplomacy to isolate Russia and to undermine its economy. All of the meddling Russia has done, Ukraine, Brexit, US, etc. has been with the goal of hurting our economies and alliances. In the power vacuum caused by a distrusted, isolated, incompetent, and preoccupied US, Russia will benefit. So will China but that’s another chapter in this terrible story.
mai naem mobile
This pigfucker wouldn’t believe Obama when Obama said he was American born but the pig believes Putin just because Putin said he didn’t meddle. Let’s not forget Intel says Putin did meddle and Obama had the ad from the Honolulu paper announcing his birth and his birth certificate. I know none of this matters but gawd it makes me hate him even more. And he’s so fucking repulsively ugly to top it off.
Boatboy_srq
@Another Scott: I’m torn between longing for the end of the cray, and wondering whether Lord Dampnut is the Hindenburg to Pence’s what’s-his-name.
sharl
Somewhat tangential to the Putin-Trump connection, a scholar in London went over to the dissertation/thesis holdings at the University of London’s School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS), and read Carter Page’s 2011 Ph.D. dissertation. He reported on it via several tweets on 9Nov. As he noted, the dissertation offers no insights or earth-shaking news, and in general is a document of low quality scholarship, though it doesn’t approach the absurd depths of Seb Gorka’s dissertation. You can scroll Nicholas James’ tweets of 9Nov here, if you have an interest in this.
The one minor mystery Mr. James’ visit confirmed is the identity of Carter Page’s thesis advisor. As specialists in the field of Central Asian studies suspected, it was Shirin Akiner. As far as I can tell, she has a someone skeevy reputation among people in this academic field as a willing hired gun for white-washing human rights violations in Central Asia, especially the 2005 mass killing in Andijan, Uzbekistan by government forces.
But there is no indication that Akiner has any connections to anything Trump-related.
My guess is that Carter Page just wanted additional credentials in hopes of opening more doors to better connect with the sweet, sweet international petroleum business, particularly in Russia and Central Asia. He may have had a combination of greed, naïveté, and excessive self-confidence – approaching Dunning-Kruger levels perhaps – that made him particularly attractive to Russian intelligence operatives looking for someone who would be easy to turn. I think that has been Cheryl Rofer’s hypothesis about this weirdo; seems plausible to me.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
“Keep your eye on that new kid, Donny. I think he’s pocketing the tips.”
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
@Immanentize: Trump wouldn’t just fire Mueller (order him fired, technically, by Mueller’s boss — currently Rosenstein). He would order the investigation shut down, “for the good of the country”. He would expect the DOJ (Rosenstein, specifically, right now) to follow this order, and if it wasn’t Trump would do his own “Saturday Night Massacre” except this time he’d get away with it completely cuz Republicans in Congress would back him up by not impeaching (again, the lesson our homegrown fascists learned from Watergate).
sharl
@sharl: Hah, I used an ascii character string deemed naughty in the virtual eyes of FYWP – C1AL1S – that threw me into moderation. Nicked again, dammit!!
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Corner Stone: 5′ 7,” as I mentioned in the post. FWIW I’m just short of 6,’ and I don’t consider anything above 5′ 6″ that short.
Cheryl Rofer
My sense is that Putin actually isn’t benefitting that much from his messing around – with the election, with Syria, with all the mafia-style killings. He seems to be pleased to be a disruptor, and he seems to be making a lot of money. That may be enough for him. I’ve been thinking about writing a post about this, but other things keep coming up.
Unfortunately, this morning’s interaction will buoy his spirits. Not sure it will really do him any good.
And I’m gonna agree with the skeptics about Mueller’s being fired. Trump is fundamentally a coward, and he’s seen that firing Mueller would be a third rail. I wouldn’t entirely eliminate the possibility that Trump might have a fit, but I think Jared and some of his other enablers have become more wary of this too. Could get them thrown off the gravy train for good.
geg6
@schrodingers_cat:
No, it is not. Sick of hearing this myself.
I’m no sunny optimist but I hate all this doom and gloom. It really depresses any glimmers of hope and I just can’t with it.
scav
I don’t quite see how Moore thinks getting the mother’s / parent’s concent makes it all hunky dorey. Theirs is emphatically not the concent required for age of concent. Nothing like that delightful faint patriarchal whiff of the girlchild being given away or at least loaned / send out for a test-drive by those with real agency, the father.
Cheryl Rofer
@sharl: Comment retrieved.
I don’t have a firm hypothesis about Carter Page. Yours is not unreasonable. But there is still information missing about how so many useful idiots found their way to Trump’s campaign. It could just be that the Russians were working on multiple fronts – the FSB and SVR often compete in such things – and that the campaign had a plethora of idiots. But Page was long enamoured by the Soviet Union and then Russia. Could have been the potential for all that oil money, but if you read what he wrote about Russia, it seems to go deeper than that.
I do still think that the full story about Page will go a long way to unraveling those mysteries.
MattF
@Cheryl Rofer: I agree that Trump’s cowardice is a basic ‘feature’ of his personality. But we don’t know what Trump will do if he’s really threatened– that hasn’t happened.
Another Scott
@scav: “I have not been guilty of sexual misconduct with anyone,” Moore said during his speech.
Have not been guilty?!?!
That’s a strange construction. I’m waiting for the elaboration: “Guilty means convicted in a court of law, so technically I wasn’t lying…” as he’s taken into custody…
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@geg6:
When you preach that the only morality is sexual morality, you become vulnerable to stuff like this, and it only stays under wraps for so long.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@MomSense: We also need to find ways to include meetings at people’s houses (ala Weinstein) in the scope of workplace abuse. Not sure if law covers that but that is where slot of this shit happens (at least in Hollywood.)
Mnemosyne
@Jeffro:
Thank you — that was so familiar and I couldn’t remember where it was from.
sharl
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for the comment retrieval, Cheryl. And yeah, I have only speculation where Page is concerned. I alternate between genuine curiosity about what makes him tick, and second-guessing myself about my interest in a guy who appears to be a total doofus. He’s like the late Andy Kaufman of this cast of reprobates, but without Kaufman’s quirky charm.
romeo24
@debbie: The one on the left is our (NZ’s) new prime minister Jacinda Ardern. The “glare” was headline news here…
Brachiator
@Cheryl Rofer:
Trump is a coward, but he loves wrapping himself in the power and authority of the presidency. He also has this strong ego connection to his election, which was the greatest ever, and gets extremely upset over anything which tarnishes it. Increasingly, he equates himself with the country. In defending Putin, he spoke ominously about how the Mueller investigation endangers the country.
To my mind, Trump is somewhat predictable in this area. Also, he knows that his supporters and the GOP will support whatever he does.
Does this make the Mueller firing a lock? No. But the odds are in that direction.
Aleta
@NotMax: That makes a lot of sense.
I do believe he parrots out phrases of conversations with advisors, lawyers. When he feels stimulated to speak on his own, small pieces that he liked because of their drama come squawking out to make himself sound important.
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne: I read and re-read so much Bloom County and Far Side back in the day, my brother and I still use those as in-jokes
Brachiator
@romeo24:
She, like Trudeau, seems like a breath of fresh air. I really wish them both great success.
Aleta
@Tynan: That makes me wonder whether a city (in my case in the US) can pass an ordinance to prevent him from visiting. ? (Probably not here, since cities can’t get restraining orders, only make specific logistical arguments I assume.)
Jay C
@Cheryl Rofer: @Brachiator:
Also, by this point in time, firing Mueller and/or shutting down his investigation is likely to be seen as an admission of guilt. Unlike, say, the successive Benghazi “investigations” the House GOP insisted on boring us with in years past, Mueller’s probes are – rather than simply rehashing old charges/allegations/rumors/Fox-News-bullsh*t – actually (carefully and sytematically) turning up credible evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 election (and the Trump Campaign connivance in it). Yes, The Yam CAN shut it down. But the evidence isn’t going away: and I’m not sure – Party loyalty aside – how many Congressional Republicans are going to want to risk their seats by colluding with such a blatant obstruction of justice.
Brachiator
@Jay C:
All of them.
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
@geg6: Yeah, and I’m sick of hearing about anything to do with Trump and all the other fascists who currently rule our world. But there they — and we — are.
Talking about the very real and very serious issues of Trump-world (say, the Russian-connection and the Mueller investigation into same) and the ramifications of things going poorly (say, the investigation gets shut down) isn’t “doom and gloom” anymore than it’s “fake news”.
The Trump/Russian connection and Mueller’s investigation are pretty damn big deals; they aren’t a “distraction” as some dipshits on the left would have it, nor is this a “hoax” and “witch-hunt” as the fascists from Trump on down claim.
The optimistic view is that Trump allows the investigation to continue to its conclusion, whatever that might be. The very optimistic view is that the conclusion doesn’t just bring to more-certain and even indictable light some “lower level” malfeasance (Manafort, Flynn, etc.) but actually results in very real damage to Trump’s admin.
The pessimistic view is that Trump and his people recognize the danger in our very optimistic scenario (not least because they know damn well just how guilty they are) and take the only step available to ensure avoiding that risk — shutting Mueller’s investigation down first. This would, of course, constitute a violation of rules, norms, and checks/balances nearly identical to Nixon’s “Saturday Night Massacre”, except this time the Trumpists would be assured of winning cuz the Republican-controlled Congress would let them. The Trump “care and concern” for rules, norms, and checks/balances puts me in the pessimist camp.
But it’s annoying to hear all that, in constant refrain no less, so let’s be positive instead of defeatist (because looking at how much deeper the shit could very well get is wrongthink defeatism, apparently). Betty Cracker should just have STFU about it to start with here; I mean, why would you even bring up the Mueller investigation in a post about Trump and Putin meeting, and Trump telling the world that Putin assured him there was no Russian electoral meddling, along with Trump’s threat about the investigation of this “hoax” imperiling not just the America/Russia “relationship” but people’s very lives?
But if you have to bring it up, then for fuck’s sake let’s keep it on the sunny side, ok? Might depress voter turnout in 2018 or somesuch otherwise. So damn annoying.
No One You Know
@chopper: ISWYDT. And laughed out loud. I can still picture that strip!
No One You Know
@schrodingers_cat: No. Frankly, I wonder if some people aren’t getting enough of a drama fix.