Warren owns it https://t.co/KEaMKMtcDh
— Blake Hounshell (@blakehounshell) February 14, 2018
Families tell each other stories to establish their place in the world — even if the story is “We’re just normal, we have no stories.” Because my own parents came from families that believed in putting the ‘fun’ in ‘dysfunctional’, they also cheerfully introduced us to the concept of the unreliable narrator about the time we were old enough to go off to school. And even so, the eventual unspooling would prove weirder than any fiction about Irish kingdoms and hidden murders (the real family skeleton would turn out to be a failed trans-Atlantic Romeo-and-Juliet story that didn’t emerge until after the deaths of both participants and their only offspring).
Obviously I’ve sympathized with Senator Warren’s “Pocahontas” problem; she trusted what her parents told her — what her parents, and their community, believed — but the rules about claiming Native American ancestry have pretty much been reversed over the last half-century. I still hope she’ll be my senator for a great many years to come, but it’s good that she’s done her best to clear the deck to campaign for other Democrats as we march towards 2018.
Per the Boston Globe:
Senator Elizabeth Warren made a surprise appearance at the National Congress of American Indians Wednesday, forcefully denouncing President Trump’s use of the name “Pocahontas” to deride her and defending her claims of Native American heritage more expansively than she has before.
The Massachusetts Democrat also made an impassioned pledge to advocate for issues of importance for Native Americans. The speech was a clear attempt to put to rest a sensitive issue that has been used by her enemies to attack her character and another signal of her potential 2020 presidential ambitions.
Warren did not apologize for her undocumented claims that her mother’s family had Cherokee blood — instead, reaffirming: “My mother’s family was part Native American. And my daddy’s parents were bitterly opposed to their relationship. So, in 1932, when Mother was 19 and Daddy had just turned 20, they eloped.”
“The story they lived will always be a part of me,” she said, as tears came to her eyes. “And no one — not even the president of the United States — will ever take that part of me away.”
But she told the gathered tribal leaders from around the country that she drew a distinction between claiming native ancestry and claiming tribal membership. She repeatedly referred to Trump’s insensitivity, not only in calling her Pocahontas but in doing it last year during an event at the White House meant to honor Navajo code-talker veterans of World War II…
Warren — who has been criticized for not advocating more aggressively in the Senate for Native American issues, given her claims to ancestry — also appeared to assert greater common cause with Native Americans than she has in the past.
“For far too long, your story has been pushed aside, to be trotted out only in cartoons and commercials,” she said. “So I’m here today to make a promise: Every time someone brings up my family’s story, I’m going to use it to lift up the story of your families and your communities.”…
Rebecca Nagle, the Cherokee activist who wrote the ThinkProgress column, said on Wednesday that the speech was a “giant step in the right direction.”
“It’s a historic moment for Indian country for a senator to make a speech like that,” Nagle said. “That’s exactly what she needed to do.”…
Mr. Charles P. Pierce adds:
Here’s a partial transcript, via The Boston Globe:
… In the fairy tale, Pocahontas saves John Smith from execution at the hands of her father. Except that was probably made up too. In the fable, her baptism as “Rebecca” and her marriage to a Jamestown settler are held up to show the moral righteousness of colonization. In reality, the fable is used to bleach away the stain of genocide. As you know, Pocahontas’s real journey was far more remarkable — and far darker — than the myth admits.
But in her teens, Pocahontas was abducted, imprisoned, and held captive. Oral history of the Mattaponi tribe indicates that she was ripped away from her first husband and child and raped in captivity. Eventually she married another John — John Rolfe. Her marriage led to an uneasy harmony between Jamestown and the tribes, a period that some historians call the Peace of Pocahontas. But she was not around to enjoy it. John Rolfe paraded her around London to entertain the British and prop up financial investments in the Virginia Company. She never made it home. She was about 21 when she died, an ocean separating her from her people. Indigenous people have been telling the story of Pocahontas — the real Pocahontas — for four centuries. A story of heroism. And bravery. And pain. And, for almost as long, her story has been taken away by powerful people who twisted it to serve their own purposes.
In the Capitol, right there in the rotunda, there is John Gadsby Chapman’s a massive painting, The Baptism Of Pocahontas. It is a huge and beautiful lie that has been hanging there since 1840, all through the debates over treaties that never were worth the paper on which they were printed, all through the passage of military appropriations that paid for the genocide in the West. And now, Elizabeth Warren works in that same building and, on Wednesday, she tried in her own way to put paid to all of the lies and broken promises. She should not be alone.
.
And then there was this *other* Warren-related story, which didn’t get nearly so much ink…
.@SenWarren to Wells Fargo: Hurry up and make customers whole again https://t.co/aJ77RWVA7o
— Catherine Rampell (@crampell) February 14, 2018
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
rikyrah
Countdown Clock ⏰⏰:
ONE more Day Until WAKANDA ????
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: Blech. Woke up at 1:18. Finally fell back to sleep after 3. Got up at 4. Double blech.
clay
@rikyrah: Bought my tix for Saturday! Can’t do opening day… I’d probably fall asleep in the theater after work! ?
Somewhat on-topic, the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian is an excellent place to visit while in DC. We got there late in the day, so we didn’t get to spend much time there, but it does a great job of conveying the stories of our native peoples in all of their glories and tragedies.
OzarkHillbilly
My mother’s mother (from an old Scots/English family with deep southern roots) threatened to disown her if she married my father (a papist Polack from the south side of Chicago). Ma said, “OK.” and started packing her bags. Grandma said, “Waitwaitwait a minute… I just wanted to see if you were serious.” (I mean, at least she wasn’t marrying that Jew she brought home once)
Than the Korean War broke out and my old man was called up. He said, “Maybe we should wait until I come back.” meaning, if he came back. Ma said “Fuck that shit. If we don’t get married now, we’re never getting married.” meaning, if you think I’m sitting around waiting for you, forget it. He said “Yes, Dear.”
So they put together a quick wedding (that only 1 of Pop’s 7 siblings made it to and neither of his parents did) and off they went to Chennault Airbase for his upgrade training (still flying a B-29 but a few things had changed since WWII) and it was a good thing Ma was there with him because he’d come back from a high altitude training flight half froze to death and he’d climb into bed with her and to warm his hands she’d put them between her thighs, and one thing led to another…..
Then he was off to Korea. And Ma wrote him a letter every day he was there. And he saved every single one of them for the 50+ years they were married. I don’t think we were supposed to see them.
NotMax
One of the most memorable courses from college days was about the history of the Lakota and the geography and history of the region they lived in. If memory serves, I was one of maybe three or four non-Native American students (out of perhaps 20) who took the class, taught by a Native American PhD.
rikyrah
@OzarkHillbilly:
Beautiful story. I hope that you treasure those letters.
Mustang Bobby
We know my family heritage pretty well except for that of my father’s grandfather from whence we get our last name. He arrived in Red Wing, Minnesota, married my great-grandmother, sired two children, one of whom became my grandfather, and then disappeared. So my claim to my Welsh heritage is based on rumor and the fact that my last name is of Welsh origin. The other three-quarters of my DNA we know pretty well; English with a touch of Holland thrown in, and on my mother’s side, a sketchy claim to a connection to England’s King Edward III (a Plantagenet, alas). That’s why I don’t bother with getting my DNA tested by Ancestry.com: it would be boring as hell.
ThresherK
I haven’t tuned in today, because I can’t stand washing the Jell-O out of my brain, but: Has NPR gone all NPR on this story yet?
If “On Point” doesn’t have plans to make this into a BothSides shitshow, I’ll eat my hat.
Doug R
@rikyrah:
Psst! You know they are adding shows for later today.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: They met on the first day of semester, she sat just in front of him. She had a bit of a cold with a constant sniffle and turned around to ask if he had a handkerchief she could borrow. He, ever the gallant one said “Sure.” and handed her his. She shook it out and in the middle of it was a great big hole.
Yeah, he was kinda embarrassed.
My little brother is the family historian so he has all the family memorabilia. Me, I lose stuff.
OzarkHillbilly
@Mustang Bobby: Don’t you want to find out how much Neanderthal you have in you?
Mustang Bobby
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, and I’ve dated a few so there must be some innate attraction…
NotMax
Not enough episodes under the belt to reach a firm conclusion but for any who might want to take a peek and sample it, Black Spot (original title Zone Blanche) on Amazon Prime.
Without expending a lot of verbiage, a French (very French) eight part series reminiscent of, but darker than, Twin Peaks. A teaser (couldn’t readily find one with subtitles).
OzarkHillbilly
@Mustang Bobby: Heh.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Your mom sounds like she was one tough cookie. Good for her for standing up to her mother!
debbie
@rikyrah:
I’ve heard nothing but great reviews. I hope it trounces in the box office.
debbie
@ThresherK:
I haven’t heard anything about Warren yet, but I have managed to yell at the Congressman from one of the Dakotas busily distracting during an interview about yesterday’s school shooting. An odd sort of argument, something to the effect that AR15s shouldn’t always be blamed because many other kinds of guns can do damage.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: My old man always said, “She’s the boss.” She never was one to suffer fools, gladly or any other way.
Brooklyn Dodger
@Mustang @Mustang Bobby: Bobby:
I remember watching The Wars of the Roses series on PBS when I was a kid. Plantagenets ain’t boring!
Baud
@debbie: Today Show is interviewing a kid who survived the shooting. So glad Matt Lauer is not there.
ETA: The kid is good.
Daddio7
My son lost his academic scholarship due to poor grades his freshman year. He tried to claim a Native American one but could only prove his mother was three eights Cherokee. I guess FSU has higher standards than Harvard. He got a military scholarship by joining the Air force ROTC program and then after serving his four years as an Air force officer used his savings to attend law school.
Baud
@Daddio7:
Hard to fault him since his daddy is a piece of shit troll.
debbie
@Baud:
Last night, I watched an interview of a mom and her kid. He was much more reflective and well-spoken than his mom, who was still coping with her fears. Maybe there is hope, after all.
rikyrah
ICYMI:
Maddow reported last night that there are 130 people working in the White House who don’t have full Security Clearance.
I was outraged when I thought it was the 40 that LarryO said the night before.
130?
130?
The threat to our National Security?!
I.just.can’t.???
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
NE Iowa BJ meetup at noon on Saturday at the Cherry Creek Grill in Waterloo. Stinger and I will be there with green balloons.
rikyrah
@debbie:
Bet his guns we’re legally bought
Matt McIrvin
I like Warren for many reasons but I hope she doesn’t run for President–I think people like her because, like Bernie Sanders, she doesn’t sound like a typical politician, but that just makes me nervous about how she’s going to handle some big bomb dropping on her campaign.
If she runs, I’ll tell you what will happen. The whole campaign will be about why Elizabeth Warren won’t get a DNA test to determine her true ancestry–what does she have to hide??????????
And if she finally gets bullied into getting one, most likely it’ll say that she is a 0% match for Native American, because that’s what usually happens with these things. And that’ll be the big fatal scandal of Warren’s candidacy, because she’s been doubling down on this, and because she’s a Democrat and that’ll kill you if you’re a Democrat.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: I can’t support someone for president who panders to conspiracy theorists. She can stay senator for life.
JR
@Daddio7: END TRANSMISSION
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Her closeness to the whole Bernie industry is another thing that makes me think she lacks sufficient killer instinct to withstand a presidential campaign. Maybe I’m wrong.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: We have pie filters for these.
hedgehog mobile
@rikyrah: We are going Saturday night. Looking forward to it!
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@Matt McIrvin: Also Warren will be 71 in 2020. I think the job needs someone younger.
debbie
@rikyrah:
I’m sure you’re right. We are talking about Florida, after all.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): I don’t think I can make it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@rikyrah: That’s not important right now, what about Hillary’s email server management. /FTFNYT
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Sorry to hear that! LOL
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I saw that you apologized for slandering my fellow Bruin, Ms. Kwan, yesterday morning.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): Yeah, you’ll have to get someone else to take the pics for this one.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: We’re talking about the US. Why break a law when you don’t have to?
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I hope she’ll forgive me. But who was the figure skater who was a big Romney supporter? Was it Kristi Yamaguchi?
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Here’s a perfect example of IOKIYAR
For decades Drumpf falsely claimed to be Swedish. He did so business purposes, believing his german ancestry would lose him business in NY.
For decades Little Marco falsely claimed his family fled Castro, when in fact they immigrated prior to Castro, looking for work in the US.
But for the vaunted corporate media, these lies are okay if you are republican.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Good time to remember that Hillary wasn’t shy about taking on the NRA. But, neoliberal…
Adria McDowell
I’m glad she drew a distinction between having Native heritage and claiming tribal benefits. It’s one thing to have the heritage, it’s another to use that heritage to your benefit- especially if you didn’t grow up on a res or deal with discrimination towards indigenous people.
Baud
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Good point. Didn’t even know about the Swedish thing.
All the headlines I saw yesterday talked about the Warren thing as a “controversy.” As if being the victim of a racist smear makes one controversial.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: it was Dorthy Hamill. She’s been married three times. Which practically makes her a Mormon
ThresherK
@debbie: I think that was John Thune. He’s got prezidenchul timber in him, you know.
NPR can eat a bag of ducks. They’re the last people with a mic who will find anything useful about the daily “thems the 2d amendment at work” shootings. And if they do it evaporates into nothing, rather than becoming background radiation.
Kay
If Democratic women are planning on running for President I hope either their campaigns or the Democratic Party organization understands and accepts that a female candidate will be held to a higher standard on “character” than Donald Trump, or any male candidate of either Party.
It’s not their fault but it is their problem. The Obama people in ’08 didn’t pretend racism didn’t exist- they priced it in and in many cases used direct tactics to overcome or get around it. Again- not Obama’s FAULT but as the black candidate, his problem. He dealt with it.
The female candidate will be portrayed as a scheming, manipulative liar- there will be endless discussion of what she IS as a person rather than what she has done. This will be INFURIATING for rank and file Democrats, for obvious reasons, because Donald Trump is such a horrible human being.
One of the NYTimes political writers is already calling this the “Native American question” – as you know she can talk ’till she’s blue in the face and they will flog it as a “question” every day until election day. I don’t think they like her and again, while that’s not her fault it is her problem.
Cheryl Rofer
This is the right thread to share this beautiful essay.
The Photographs I’ve Never Seen, by Lucy McKeon
It’s about family and photographs. I’ve been digitizing ours, so it struck a chord. I even have a mysterious photograph that I can’t find, like she does. I’m pretty sure it exists, although I may have lost it, and it’s even possible I just dreamed it. But I can see it in my mind.
Save this read for later today when things get too crazy.
Brachiator
@OzarkHillbilly: Great story. Your parents sound like wonderful people.
You ever thought about digitally preserving the letters?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Maybe, don’t follow figure skating much.
@Baud: …and her email!
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: Local papers confirm the shooter bought the AR-15 legally. He also had legally purchased high-capacity magazines or clips or whatever terminology the gun pedants demand before they’ll deem one sufficiently knowledgeable to hold an opinion on gun policy.
MomSense
@Kay:
I hate saying this but I think we need to run a charismatic man who is in the youngish side. We are still way too fucking sexist to be able to elect a woman.
I would love to be proved wrong but I’m not optimistic. We have a fantastic woman AG running for Governor in my state. I’m already hearing the bullshit. I’ll work my ass off for her campaign but it’s going to be tough. If she were a man it would be a coronation, believe me.
d58826
Our family story is about a castle that we own in Scotland or Ireland. Had a couple of aunts who believed in the story till the day they died. Since I’m the sole surviving heir – get the H off my castle lawn.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
They also expelled him and moved him to another school. That’s always missed in these analyses- “expelling” someone in the public school system means you move them to another school or an alternative site or you provide tutors. What you cannot do is not give them an alternative because a free public education K-12 is a right under state law, not a privilege.
Schools are systems and they slot people into the system at some level, because they have to. “Expelling” doesn’t solve anything. It just passes on the problem to someone else.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer: I scanned all my mom’s old photos, I ran across one of parents and 3 children and wondered why she had that one. Then I recognized that one was my aunt and realized it was my mom’s family. At that point I also recognized my mom and my uncle. The oldest photo I have is a baby picture of my dad and his twin sister which was probably taken in 1920.
d58826
@Betty Cracker: I would like to add my thoughts (that the enablers in the NRA/GOP/etc of there shootings contract long painful fatal diseases) and prayers (that Satan has a special place in H* reserved for these folks when they die.)
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I have a few photos in which the people are unidentifiable. I’ve asked my (few) older relatives about them with no useful information. Fortunately, the ones with parents as young’uns are known. Such cute babies!
Betty Cracker
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I didn’t know that about Trump. But Rubio’s lies about his family’s immigration story really should stick to the smarmy little bastard. For YEARS, he made a big, fat deal out of the story that his family were “exiles” fleeing the commies, and he used that phony “exile” story to make a distinction between himself and the children of immigrants who came to the US for economic reasons.
Rubio claims he just went along with what his parents told him and didn’t know they came to the U.S. pre-Castro. That may or may not be true. But the fact is, he did what Warren is falsely accused of — used a fake story for material advantage. I don’t think I heard one peep about that when he was running for president, but, like Kay says, he’s not only a Republican, he’s a dude, so he can get away with that sort of thing.
d58826
@Kay: Is it me or are the thoughts and prayers crowd the same one trying to destroy Obamacare with it’s access the mental health care and medicaid/chips/community health programs etc that might provide a place for family members to get these folks help.
Kay
@MomSense:
I don’t know- it’s up to the woman who wants to run and then primary voters.
But price it in and deal with it. That’s reality. I had this crazy discussion once with an Obama campaign person about how we needed white “validators” in my county. Okay, it’s true but I was shocked they were so clear and direct on it because, you know, polite people don’t talk about the elephant in the room. I came around to thinking it was very smart – I admire the harsh practicality of that sort of thinking. Not his fault but he wanted to be President so therefore his problem.
Gin & Tonic
@OzarkHillbilly:
My then-girlfriend and I wrote each other nearly every other day when we were in college in separate cities. 40+ years of marriage later, we have a couple of boxes of those in the basement and trying to figure out what to do with them.
aimai
@Daddio7: Jesus christ–she did not apply to harvard or get any membership for being native american. No standards were applied.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Kay: I just looked up an article from 2012 in the Vichy Times and they were just vicious on the matter.
I don’t see how she gets around this if she runs for president with a hostile corporate media dying to turn it into another endless fake email scandal.
aimai
My parents met and fell in love when they were eight–there are no pictures of them together from this period. They dated in college and married in college. Now they are 86 years old. We have pictures but not very many, when we were doing a huge festschrift/birthday party for my father I asked his students for pictures and they all said, sadly, it was the 60’s and 70’s and none of us owned a camera.
Betty Cracker
@d58826: Amen!
@Kay: Sounds about right to me — price it in. It’s a realistic approach. I think a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters, myself included, failed to fully calculate the price of gender and the quarter-century of wingnut media slime that weighed down her candidacy. Won’t make that mistake again!
Another Scott
My mother’s parents had sort of an interesting courtship. My mom said her father fell in love with his future wife when he first saw her and “had to wait for her to grow up”. Sweet, or kinda creepy depending on how you look at it…
I never met her – she died very young (before I was born) after having 4 kids. Some sort of cancer, I think.
I’d hate to think how my grandfather would have been portrayed if he were part of a political campaign these days.
People can’t pick their parents, times change, stories get made up and garbled, and all the rest. Warren’s speech was good.
If she’s ever asked about it again, she should simply refer back to this speech. I don’t see how her continuing to try to “explain” it helps her (and of course “if you’re explaining, you’re losing”). I hope, and expect, she’ll stay in the Senate as a forceful advocate as long as she’s able.
Cheers,
Scott.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Family values strikes again.
OzarkHillbilly
@Brachiator: Little Bro is doing it. Good thing too. If I did it the computer would blow up in a flaming ball, torching the house and everything in it including the letters.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I priced it in but not high enough. I didn’t price in Comey or the Russians.
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
Save’em for the kids? They could be a great family-history resource if anyone’s interested in doing that.
Kay
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Well, I wouldn’t go that far. It’s not an insurmountable problem. You can’t address it directly though or they’ll defend and double down.
I don’t pretend to know what to do about bias, but I do know we had one candidate who really mastered how to deal with one bias issue, so it might CAN be done. Obama went under them. That’s a HUGE lift, obviously. I made a joke during that campaign that if we were going to go door to door “it’s a big country” and they just stared at me, like “yes, we do plan to do that” in that unnerving no-drama way they had.
Clinton was the first. We’ll get better at it.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly: He had a reason to get back to Lake Charles
MomSense
@Kay:
I worked (as a vol) on endorsements from “white validators” in NH. Infuriating but necessary.
germy
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Yeah, well. One of Obama’s daughters went to a rock concert. So both sides, really.
Baud
@Kay:
Bill Clinton and Obama suggest that an extraordinary amount of charisma can overcome bias and the media that panders to it. But that’s hard to learn if you’re not born with it.
MomSense
@Kay:
They knew exactly how many contacts were needed with each voter. That’s why the expectation for numbers of dials and doors was so rigid.
manyakitty
@OzarkHillbilly: That’s kind of beautiful.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Someone with Obama-level skills could handle it. Warren is not that person.
BC in Illinois
When I looked into the Elizabeth Warren matter a while back, one of the papers noted that there were other branches of the extended family that had heard the same thing. (“Great-grandpa was half Cherokee.” That sort of thing.) It also noted that some people were dead-set against any suggestion of Native American heritage, others had no problem.
What always stuck out to me was that we were talking about Great-grandparents. People just beyond personal memory. People who, if they had secrets, kept those secrets to the grave.
My great-grandpa C was a man with few details. Born in New York, enlisted in the Michigan 24th Volunteer Infantry (no, he wasn’t at Gettysburg), mustered out in Illinois, married a woman from western Pennsylvania. The family legend was that he was knifed in a political argument in the 1880s, they asked him who did it, he said, “I’ll tell you later,” and died.
A great story. All of my brothers and I knew the story. Totally bogus. He died from a rail-yard accident. Did my father make up the story? (Possible.) Did my grandfather make up the story? (Also possible. He considered any delving into genealogy as “ancestor worship.”) But in the 60s and 70s, is was not easy to check into the records of the 1880s.
manyakitty
@Mustang Bobby: So…”Bobby” is Welsh, then? (I’ll show myself out)
Kay
Our 15 year old does his homework at the dining room table at the same time every night. He’s an orderly person and he’s not especially demonstrative. Last night he moved his whole kit and caboodle over to the couch and sat and did it with me, and he was talking a lot. Not about the shooting but about his written driver’s test, which he’s taking Saturday. But a lot of talking- a little manic.
I wonder what they really think about this- how it affects them. I realize today he may have been comforting me because he knows this upsets me, but what do they think about it? How do they just integrate that this is their reality?
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: Decades ago, I had a love affair with a very special lady in the Netherlands for several years. We’d see each other once, maybe twice a year. In between we’d write each other (pre email days). I saved all of the letters long after she and I had gone our separate ways. Every now and again I’d come across that box and read a few of them. Then I met my wife and got married. One day I came across that box again, opened it and saw what was inside.
I burned them fuckers that day.
BretH
Up till recently I was all “She should stay in Congress where she can do the most good. But eff it, I hope to hell she runs. There will NEVER be a better time for a plain talking politician like her.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@BretH: Her 71st birthday will be in June 2020, can’t we get anyone younger?
ETA: There’s always Baud, he’s virtual and hence ageless.
OzarkHillbilly
@manyakitty: My mother was a beautiful woman, right up to the day she died.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Gotta love Lucinda.
MomSense
@Kay:
I think all of our school aged children have a low level, chronic trauma. They start practicing lock down drills in kindergarten. One of the reasons I hate the expression “children are our future” is because I think it lets us justify putting off their needs. The future is going to be pretty fucking bleak if in the present we keep under-funding their schools, failing to protect them from being murdered at school, letting them try and grow up with food insecurity, and then punishing them when their poor test scores reflect how badly we negelct them.
Matt McIrvin
@germy: Also, Obama’s daughters fidgeted at the turkey pardoning, which is practically the same thing as assault charges.
BretH
Does she ACT old? Does she (and I am sorry to have to ask this) LOOK old? Christ, Bernie looks like he might keel over any day and he certainly doesn’t have trouble attracting young followers. Besides, with the demographics today and for the near future a good portion of voters are more willing I think to be addressed by an “elder” then a young whippersnapper.
When I say “elder” I mean in in the sense of someone who is respected and listened to because of the wisdom that comes with their age and experience – that can loosen the restraints a younger person might have in “telling it like it is”.
rikyrah
@Kay:
tis the truth, Kay.
It’s the Woman Tax, as Barack Obama was subject to the Black Tax.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Just wondering, Kay….
Is Black Panther coming to rural Ohio?
d58826
@MomSense:
I remember the duck and cover drills during the cold war. Of course, we didn’t take them seriously because 1. there never had been a nuclear war and 2. once the bombs started dropping we would all be vaporized whither we ducked or not anyway. School shootings are all to real for today’s kids.
rikyrah
@Gin & Tonic:
Preserve them, and make sure the kids know about them when you pass away. They are precious, even if you don’t believe me.
Barbara
If you are in want or need of a funny, read this article by Dana Milbank:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/sarah-huckabee-sanders-is-at-a-loss-for-words-on-rob-porter-i-am-here-for-her/2018/02/14/0a019a22-11e2-11e8-9065-e55346f6de81_story.html?utm_term=.6d6fe9123838
It goes on and on like that, using quotes from the White House throughout. Why Porter didn’t save himself a lot of agony by resigning when it became clear to him that his security clearance would be denied is truly a mystery to me.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
I thought that I had factored in the 25 years of Hillary hate from the wingnut media.
What I had not factored in was the many times she appeared with the so-called MSM men, and they turned out to be misogynist pigs.
I went into 2008, looking for the racial factor with 44 – could see it a mile away.
But, definitely underestimated the Woman Tax from those in the media, by those shaping the narrative of the campaign in the media.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: We have children, who are grown. They know our history, more or less. I’m not sure the details in those letters would add anything worthwhile, and could be awkward for them to read anyway. Like thinking about your parents fucking – you know in your brain that they’ve done it, but you really don’t want to spend time imagining the details.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: I have many vmails from my dad in WW2 and e gave me all my letters from Korea and Vietnam. Boy did I lie like a motherfucker!
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay,
We’ve had enough of these shootings, to know that it happens, but maybe because I grew up in an age when it DIDN’T happen – the pain gets to me.
We have 17 parents who made lunch, or grumbled about the lunch money, or nagged their kid for something that they were going to do that day…
and, they didn’t come home. Because, they went to school.
TO.SCHOOL.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@BretH:
Bernie Woulda Won Mardi Gras
manyakitty
@OzarkHillbilly: That usually comes from the inside, so it’s quite a tribute to her. You’re a lucky guy.
japa21
A little background on Mrs. japa. She had always been somewhat apolitical for much of our marriage. Always voted for Democrats, but wasn’t very expressive either in public or private regarding her political feelings. That started to change with Obama. She became horrified at the negative, racist responses to his candidacy and his presidency. With Trump she has been more verbal but still not publicly demonstrative.
Yesterday blew that away. I posted some of her thoughts here. Today she went further and posted the following on her FB page.
Want to note that there are some of her friends and a couple family members that will not be happy with this posting, but she doesn’t care. I am proud of her.
rikyrah
Bloomberg is reporting that the IRS has issued subpoenas for investors and lenders in Kushner family real estate projects. https://t.co/7svVxCFLdS pic.twitter.com/VeHdDjLAal
— Jim Roberts (@nycjim) February 15, 2018
satby
@rikyrah: Good morning.
I just wish we could successfully call the Republicans what they are: the party of death. Death by gun, death by untreated illnesses, death by starvation, death by poisoning, death by removal of safety regulations.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@satby: They take blood money.
rikyrah
Why Trump’s response to Florida’s school shooting is so inadequate
02/15/18 08:43 AM
By Steve Benen
A gunman using a semiautomatic rifle killed at least 17 people in a Florida high school yesterday, wounding 14 others, five of whom suffering life-threatening injuries. Though modern presidents often offer words of consolation in response to deadly tragedies of this scale, Donald Trump has said very little since the school massacre took place.
He did, however, publish a tweet this morning.
First, part of the problem with this is the subtext: the president’s message gives the impression that the suspected gunman’s “neighbors and classmates” should have done more to prevent yesterday’s violence. In case the reality of this dynamic isn’t already obvious, let’s make it plain: the Parkland shooting wasn’t their fault.
Second, let’s say we take Trump’s rhetoric at face value, and communities report instances of disturbed individuals to authorities “again and again.” Then what? Would the Republican White House and its allies in Congress support new restrictions on those individuals’ access to firearms? Are they prepared to make significant new investments in a robust mental-health network?
What is it, exactly, the president believes should happen after Americans go to authorities “again and again”?
Third, Trump may have forgotten this, but one of the first measures he signed after taking office expanded gun access for the mentally impaired. It passed the Republican-led Congress on Feb. 15, 2017 – exactly one year ago today – and received the president’s signature soon after.
japa21
Let me say, I love Stephanie Ruhle. My wife is okay with that because she knows Ruhle wouldn’t give me the time of day. Also, because she has a little crush on Ruhle as well.
Gelfling 545
My Mother’s family came from Alsace which made them French or German depending on when they left. She had an olive complection and almost black hair. My father’ German and Irish family wanted to know why he was going around with “that Italian girl”. Though we lived near my paternal grandparents all their lives there was always a certsin coolness between Mom & Grandma. Turns out it wasn’t about the ethnicity at all. The problem was Aunt Idey. Idey was my maternal grandfather’s sister. She married my paternal great grandmother’s brother and produced 2 children. Then Idey took off for NYC to become a …dancer of sorts leaving the 2 kids & husband behind. He was Catholic, so no divorce. This left my great grandmother to raise his 2 kids. We didn’t hear the Aunt Idey story for many years until one brother in law started doing a family tree. Then the family stories came out. One real sore point was that when he died she got his railroad pension.
geg6
@BretH:
She’s a great senator. I wish her well. But I don’t have any wish for her to run for president. Zero. She’s specialist and that position requires, as we all see, a generalist. And, as an old myself, I would prefer someone younger. Much younger.
geg6
@Barbara:
Because he is arrogant enough to believe he could get away with it. And he would have if it wasn’t for those brave women he beat.
gvg
@rikyrah:
in November 2017. there were 130 in November and Maddow was careful to say that. Which means we don’t know how many now. Maybe it’s dropped down to at least 40, but I am so shook by this, I wonder if it’s even more. They do have a turnover problem.
I guess Congress could defund the whitehouse? do a real investigation? I guess Trump could declare them cleared but what I actually want is all the uncleared ones kicked out of the whitehouse until cleared normally. Can Congress prevent anyone from being paid or get benefits until they are normally cleared for access? That still wouldn’t prevent them from being there unpaid (Kushner). Can they arrest someone and sequester them if they have had access to secrets and still don’t have clearance after a reasonable time? We did something like that in WWII. Its not enough to stop it continuing, they have probably already seen top secret stuff and need to be prevented from blabbing or selling secrets.
In some ways, in spite of 911, this generation just doesn’t get the concept of danger to the country. Those are just words they use to attack the rival party.
Matt McIrvin
@satby: “The Party of Death” was Ramesh Ponnuru’s name for the Democrats, because abortion. Abortion nullifies and reverses everything.
gvg
@Matt McIrvin: I hope Warren doesn’t run. She is too old. We have talked this point over a lot so I won’t rehash it. She doesn’t know much about foreign policy. That’s going to be a problem for whoever gets stuck with Trump clean up. Actually except for her age, Hillary is the most qualified or John Kerry but they are also both too old and too solidified in public perception.
Warren has one area of competence not everything. Not good president material, which is fine.
I am afraid Biden might try again and he doesn’t have “it” either. He appeals to the older crowd, like my parents, but past polling says his support isn’t broad enough. Some of the leaders in the fight against Trump are possible maybe.
Emma
First: we should run whoever the party elects through primaries.
Second: when are we going to stop running from the enemy? We can’t run this one because the MSM will go after them. We can’t run this one because Republicans will hammer them on something or other. This one is way too old, that one is too young. That third one, well, their family, you know… We will never find the perfect candidate, or the bulletproof one.
Most important: When are we going to grow the spine to become aggressive in our politicking? Because the one reason Obama got elected the first time was that they were relentless in the personal approach and pretty much ignored all the arseholes. Yes, his charisma got him front and center. But it was the calculated politicking, worthy of a Chicagoan (as described by some in this thread) that really got it done.
MomSense
@d58826:
I remember the duck and cover drills as well. It did leave me with a deep distrust of authority and institutions because it seemed to me that the adults who thought this was acceptable were delusional. I didn’t worry that it could happen at any time and I think that is the big difference. The kids know that this could happen at any time. It is a constant possibility. They see their parents cry and hear us talk about it. What kills me is that the older kids usually know exactly which student is likely to do it but they have so little confidence in adults being able and/or willing to do anything about it that they rarely mention it to any of us. We are failing our children. It is neglect and abuse on a nationwide scale.
rikyrah
@japa21:
Bravo, Mra. Japa
Leto
@Barbara: Because for all of the shit that comes out via the media, I believe we’re only skimming the surface of the truly horrific amount of malfeasance that’s happening in this administration. Maybe 10%? They thought they could get away with it, so they kept on going. They’ll keep doing that until exposed, then lie about it, try to keep doing it, then change only when there’s no other option available. And even THEN, it’ll still take a while to happen. Why the hell did it take almost 2 1/2 weeks from the time Acting AG Yates notified the WH that Flynn was basically a foreign agent till the time he resigned? Because they thought they could get away with it. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
Re running candidates in their 70s, my objection comes from my own experience of aging. The presidency is a tough job both physically and mentally. There’s individual variation, of course, but I see more rapid deterioration in the 70s.
AnotherBruce
Neoliberal. I guess that’s supposed to be an insult. I wonder what it means for people who are throwing it out as an insult?
Doug R
@Kay:
Towards the end of Obama’s first campaign, Chris Rock had a video out explaining that Obama was half white-with the picture of Barack with his sunglass wearing grandparents, and a few other pictures including one of him bowling. The punch line being he’s basically white. Delivered as only Chris Rock can.
rikyrah
uh huh
uh huh
Why Former Trump Staffers May Be Walking Security Threats https://t.co/J8cdFlztyM <– my latest for @FastCompany
— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) February 15, 2018
d58826
I guess my problem is there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of troubled kids who might fit a profile but they never act out. There certainly should be the resources to help these kids (and the adults as well) but finding the needle in the haystack of which one will pick up a gun and shoot is almost impossible.
A sane society would approach the problem from the other and easier end – ban the d***** guns. No guns no mass shootings.
Tazj
Trump is so horrible at this job, he just hid yesterday and this morning he’s basically blaming the neighbors and fellow students of the gunman for this tragedy. He’s supposed to speak this morning today, maybe it would be better if he stayed quiet for a few more days.
I like this response to his morning tweet form a Stoneman Douglas student retweeted by Ashely Feinberg.
Ashley Feingberg @ashleyfeinberg
The kids are better than us
Sarah@chaddiedabaddie
I don’t want your condolences you fucking piece of shit, my friends and teachers were shot. Multiple of my fellow classmates are dead. Do something instead of sending thoughts and prayers. Prayers won’t fix this. But gun control will prevent it from happening again.
MomSense
@d58826:
Shouldn’t it cause some sort of response when someone starts buying gas masks, vests, large capacity magazines. It wasn’t just that this kid was troubled or acting out, he was buying long guns and a lot of ammo.
bemused
@OzarkHillbilly:
Gotta chuckle out of this. Your dad was a wise man.
Leto
@Tazj:
991 days to be exact.
Also +1 to that kid.
germy
The Moar You Know
I feel for her on this subject most keenly. My mother had told me since I was a child I was part Native American. Made sense, I look it. Darker than most whites and zero body hair. Had cause to do a genome analysis a couple years back. The tale was bullshit from top to bottom. I’m Eastern European and British, and nothing else.
The takeaway is this, and its a new rule: don’t claim ancestry you can’t prove with a paper trail. A former girlfriend, who was 100% Native (born on the rez) said it was pretty disrespectful to claim it if you can’t prove it. Just her opinion, of course, but I stopped. Glad I did as it turns out.
The Moar You Know
@germy: Sure you can. It just means you’re an inhuman monster.
bemused
@Mustang Bobby:
All my grandparents are Finnish immigrants but I do have a Russian connection (no collusion) of sorts. An uncle took off to Russia along with a lot of other socialist northern American Finns probably in the 1930’s. There were actually recruiters that signed up Finnish Americans to go to Russia for a “better life”. My uncle seemed to be considered an outlier by my family. When he left he may have already divorced his wife but he left a daughter behind that never forgave him or had any interest in his family. What we believe he was murdered in the purges in Russia (life didn’t turn out at all well for the American Finns) and rumored to have married a Russian woman and had a child.
Miss Bianca
@Gelfling 545: OK, somewhere in there I lost track of who was related to whom on which side and then started humming, “I’m My Own Grandpa”, which doesn’t help matters any.
Gelfling 545
@BC in Illinois: I believe I read that the Cherokee Nation validated Warren’s ancestral connection.
Immanentize
@Tazj: Given Trump’s tweet today, I think everyone should call their local authorities to ask for intervention with — Trump
Bully,
Easily offended,
Cognitive disabilities,
History of domestic violence
History of violence towards women,
Fetishises weapons and the military
A-Ok with violent men (White supremesists, Duterte, Putin, etc.)
That man needs to be committed for everyone’s sake!
tobie
@MomSense: I think that with the exception of the election in 2000 I’ve volunteered with every presidential campaign since 1984. Hill’s door and phone lists were better than Obama’s in 2008 and 2012. Way better than Kerry’s. The ground game wasn’t the problem. It was that she was so battered from the right and the left thanks to Russian bots, Comey, 35-years of media assault, etc. that support for her always felt half-hearted or grudging. Strong women of a certain age are so frightening for Americans. The venom I’ve seen for HRC is only matched by the venom for Nancy Pelosi.
gvg
we haven’t built the mental health resources to deal with this. There are authorities to report things to but then what? What are the cops supposed to do with “suspicions”. what is the school supposed to do when history has labeled a lot of others as deeply troubled and unpopular who weren’t any danger, geeks, misfits, gays, minority ethnic, wrong religion and all kinds of things that we were the problem on not them. This kid was an outcast according to the stories today but I haven’t seen exactly why in a way that justifies it and if someone is treated badly, they might then become bad. Even if its an actual mental health problem, there are not resources for very many and we have not come up with an efficient way to get such a person treatment. Cops are very bad at dealing with this too because they are the wrong tool. Train someone how to deal with criminals and then add mental health evaluator with no training for that is just nuts on our part. and then there just aren’t enough trained people to help with the load if we did refer all those we should. It will take time to build up a system to help. Not a simple law. though we do need to start on some of the laws and i am not advocating giving up.
Immanentize
@tobie: Cue Ancient Base Metal….
d58826
@MomSense: Yes it should, The problem is 1. all of those things are legal, 2. unless someone is tracking his purchases no one will know what he is buying. Connecting the dots is always easier in hindsight. There are some things that probably could be done but the NRA/GOP will not do them. In fact they are in the process of passing legislation to effectively gut state and local level concealed carry laws. And here I thought the GOP was all for states rights and small federal government. silly me
Matt McIrvin
@gvg: I’m dreading a Biden run too. I think he might try it. He’ll get a lot of “there’s the old white man we need” from pundits.
opiejeanne
@d58826: Ha! I have a teapot that supposedly came from a castle in Scotland. It was given to me by two dear old ladies, sisters who were family friends; neither had any children and they told me all about their family castle when they gave me this teapot.
I cherished that teapot as a child, but when I got a little older I noticed it was decorated with “decals”, a process that isn’t all that old, maybe late 19th century. Also, the maker’s mark is from the 1920s or 30s. At that point I began to have some doubts about the castle story.
d58826
@gvg: And the best placed to start is the GOP plan to repeal Obamacare and cut spending to all of the safety programs. That is snark by the way
Matt McIrvin
@Doug R: Rush Limbaugh and other Republican creeps also tried to sell Obama being “Halfrican-American” as a negative–the idea that because he was mixed-race he was some kind of affirmative-action faker, pretending to be black to get all of the fabulous advantages of being black.
Leto
@Miss Bianca: You’re not the only one. I had to write it out on a note pad and still don’t think I got it quite right.
@d58826: Also who’s going to track it? Which super underfunded/undermanned agency is going to do this? We’re not going to fix anything until they’re all voted out of office.
Jamey
I love Sen. Warren SO much. Really, that’s about the only thing I think whenever I read, hear, or see her.
JaneE
My family is from Oklahoma too, and has Cherokee heritage on both sides of the family. Only one side is documented, but both sides were listed as “Indian” race on the census. How much Indian is debatable. My dad’s baby sister is the only member of that generation left, and how much Indian her grandfather had goes up with every conversation. My DNA comes in at the low end of any family version, but 4 times what the Dawes rolls document. Still, some people in the family still see Indian blood as something “you should know” about a new in-law I will probably never meet in person. I am so glad my parents left there before I was born. I could have been a real bigot, hating my own ancestors.