Ralph Peters, explaining the convenience of the Taliban murdering our soldier in captivity:
Now look, Julie, I want to be clear. If, when the facts are in, we find out that through some convoluted chain of events, he really was captured by the Taliban, I’m with him. But, if he walked away from his post and his buddies at wartime… I don’t care how hard it sounds, as far as I’m concerned, the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills.
I think it is well past time someone questions John Kerry’s patriotism.
And no, the quote is not out of context.
Svensker
These people are sick.
Yutsano
I think I first saw that here and wow…just…wow. The whole supporting the troops mantle is now officially shed by them. If a reichwinger accuses you of hating the military, just say Ralph Peters and walk away. If that were my other half (who is a Marine) you better believe I’d have Peters’ balls on a platter.
gex
So let me get this straight. Liberals and moderates who did not want to start the war in Iraq are fifth column traitors. But conservatives can openly, on air, advocate for the killing of our soldiers by the enemy and hope that Osama bin Laden attacks the US again.
I give up. How can it be that anyone, anyone at all, finds this acceptable, much less agrees with it? The right is dangerously disturbed these days. I’m scared. We haven’t even finished one year of a Democratic presidency. What are the next 3 to 7 years going to look like?
/shudder
mai naem
I watched this. I thought training was that you cooperate with the kidnapper(in obvious ways), show some “respect” for them so that you can be released. Who the fuck is Ralph Peters to say what this guy is going through? To me he looked scared as hell. This is like when Imus and his crew were making fun of the CSM journo who was held by the Iraqis for several months. Imus’ producer said something like “I bet she’s carrying Hussein’s baby” and other crap like that.
cs
Interestingly, Peters is echoing Stalin, who believed any captured Soviet soldier was, by default, a traitor. After the war was over, many (most?) repatriated Soviet POW’s were sent off to Siberia.
John Cole
@cs: Hell, half the neocons were Trotskyites that only moved to the right when they came in power. The biggest threat to the Democrats are the neocons will join the FIRE crowd in supporting them. They flow to the power like water on a seemingly flat surface.
Yutsano
I give up. How can it be that anyone, anyone at all, finds this acceptable, much less agrees with it? The right is dangerously disturbed these days. I’m scared. We haven’t even finished one year of a Democratic presidency. What are the next 3 to 7 years going to look like?
It’s going to get worse. Much much much worse. Especially if it becomes clear that the Democrats aren’t about to lose their majorities any time soon (which so far seems likely), because the longer it seems to them that they will remain out of power, the more desperate they will become to get it back. And the means are not as important as the ends to them.
Third Eye Open
Y’think we can trade the Taliban this douche-bag for our soldier? We can throw in Ann Coulter to sweeten the pot, but we expect a primo deal on our next bulk opium purchase.
robertdsc
I love his fiction (The War in 2020 is one of my favorite books of the genre), but Peters’ wingnuttiness is grossly unacceptable.
The Grand Panjandrum
Peter’s also wrote an op/ed in 2006 with the title “Dude, Where’s My Civil War.” (I couldn’t find it in the NY Post archives) He is also a retired Army MI officer. Military Intelligence … To bad George Carlin can’t be here for one last curtain call.
Cain
I don’t understand why he wandered off the base? That was really stupid. In any case, Taliban got themselves a nice tool to show movies of and the guy is so scared he’s cooperating. Nothing wrong with that, I’d probably sing like a canary myself. I hope they get them back despite whatever that assfuck, Ralph Peters say. Jackass.
Oh yeah, thanks to Cheney, I guess the whole Geneva Conventions for prisoners of war is also out the window. :(
cain
Keith G
Looking over his vitae, it appears that Ralph Peters makes a habit of being on the wrong side of policy debates. I also see that he is a ex Army officer. Some things do work out for the best.
The Grand Panjandrum
Here is the video of Ralph running his mouth.
El Cid
So, um, should we, um, mention the, the Geneva Conventions and such? Or best to keep mum?
PeakVT
That’s so utterly fucked up.
A former Lt. Col from the U.S. armed forces is saying shit like that? I wonder if he is still on IRR. I hear Thule is nice this time of year…
kay
“Well, Julie, I must stress we must wait until all of the facts are in until we make a final judgment”.
That’s extraordinarily generous of him, of course, he then goes on to deliver the accusation, verdict and sentencing, but leaving that aside…
Who is this “we”? This maniac and some nitwit on FOX named “Julie”? Is that who renders the “final judgment”, or is he including the Taliban?
J.D. Rhoades
Thanks for quoting my favorite Floyd song.
Fern
@The Grand Panjandrum:
What a nasty man.
JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN's Official Stalker
I’m just not buying the desertion idea, at least not in the classic sense of leaving for good. Afghanistan just seems like too foreign and hostile a place to try that. What actually happened seems far too likely to happen. Unless he has some pretty significant psychological problems ,which is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, I find this unlikely.
I suspect that it might technically have been desertion, if any unauthorized absence from your base/post qualifies. Not having been in the military, I have no idea if there is a gap between being AWOL starts, and when legal Desertion starts. I just have a hard time being all that exercised about the sort of breaking of mi9litary law I see here. The biggest issue is him being stupid and getting himself captured. In this day and age of media saturation of any such incident, that is a real no-no. Hardly worth executing him for, though.
Of course, since a similar incident happens in The Hurt Locker, this gives me another chance to plug it.
kommrade reproductive vigor
For his next trick Peters the AssClown will advocate getting rid of the MPs and outsourcing their duties to the Taliban.
I’m sure his fellow fReichtards will be along shortly to explain that calling this mangy dog’s dick a mangy dog’s dick proves we hate the troops and want the terrorists to win.
Andre
@Cain:
Has anyone got background on the “wandering off base” thing? I haven’t seen it mentioned. Seems like the sort of phrase that could cover a lot of different situations.
But yeah, it’s pretty weak to want the guy to be killed, however he ended up in that situation.
tofubo
O to the T
…On April 28, 2003…Goldman Sachs also agreed to a censure by the NYSE and the NASD and to pay a total of $110,000,000.00…
…On July 1, 2004…ordered Goldman Sachs to pay a civil monetary penalty of $2 million…
On January 24, 2005…Goldman Sachs consented to a censure and cease-and-desist order and payment of $1,500,000 civil money penalty…
h
censure, civil, civil – is there gonna be a criminal @ some point in time ??
california has that 3 stikes and your out rule, can delaware ??
Debbie(aussie)
The poor guy(soldier) might have had a mental breakdown, but we should wish him dead, as this will save the army time and money! My gawd!
Fern
@JMN Is Now asiangrrlMN’s Official Stalker:
“I’m just not buying the desertion idea, at least not in the classic sense of leaving for good. Afghanistan just seems like too foreign and hostile a place to try that.”
That was my first thought – hardly strikes me as a hospitable environment in which to desert.
Comrade Kevin
@John Cole: I wonder how many people actually know that. David Horowitz, Peter Colllier, Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol were all far-leftists at one time in the past. The behaviour is the same, in service of a different cause.
MikeJ
@El Cid: How quaint.
kay
@Debbie(aussie):
Let’s not wait to find out.
Let’s just let Ralph and Julie handle final judgment, from the FOX studio, in the interest of efficiency.
Ralph says “no one in the military that he’s heard” is defending the soldier. That’s enough for Julie.
ellaesther
@El Cid: Probably best to keep mum. Because then they might want us to apply the conventions to our own soldiers, not to mention the other side’s, and you know where that would lead: Straight to the dismantling of the country.
… all I really got it: Holy fuck. What is wrong with people?
Wait, I also have this: During the Civil War, as I understand it, it was standard procedure to execute soldiers who had abandoned their posts. Abraham Lincoln apparently would look for any excuse, anything, to mitigate the sentence, much to the occasional consternation of the army in the field, because he understood that sometimes, in the course of a godawful war, far from home, a man just goes doo-lally, and he hated to have to kill them for that.
But apparently he wasn’t as bright as this former Lt. Col. Ralph Peters fella.
I cannot imagine having my own soldier in this fight, and hearing this man spew this kind of hateful filth. God damn.
Debbie(aussie)
Yes Kay. Exactly the sort of thing pundits are best at pontificating about. I can only imagine the derision and outrage if something similar to this was discussed by/at left leaning shows. Not that it should matter, of course. But that takes, EMPATHY, noes, not empathy!
maya
According to the taped video, the soldier’s name is,Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl, and he’s part of an Alaskan unit near the Pakistan border and he’s from Idaho. In the tape he says that he lagged behind in a patrol he was on when he was captured, which does not jive with the earlier version that he wandered off base with 3 Afghanis.
It ‘s just not this Lite Colonel who’s saying bat shit stuff, the wingnuts are now wondering why the left isn’t speaking up about the soldier’s Geneva Convention rights. Gee, I guess they got us libtards right between the eyes with that one.
Can anybody say, Abu Grabe, the pictures of Saddam after he was captured in his underwear, waterboard? That GC ship sailed a long time ago. But this will be all Obama’s fault and all the more reason never to go after Cheney. find a big rug somewhere that can accommodate all his unsightly dirt.
cs
In terms of “wandering off base”, Peters was probably thinking of guys like Charles Robert Jenkins and his deserting to North Korea. Two other servicemen took the long walk across the DMZ around the same time.
(On a side note: I just recently watched the documentary Crossing the Line which tells the story of the defectors and centers around interviews with one still living in Pyongyang, Joe Dresnok. Highly recommend it, especially if you enjoy movies where you have to determine how much the protagonist is telling the truth.)
It’s a pity no one at Fox has any idea of history, since they could have asked Peters about similar incidents in the past, such as the pro-DPRK statements made under duress by the crew of the USS Pueblo, or the collaboration with North Vietnam by John McCain after he was broken. Did those men deserve to die for being “traitors”?
(On yet another side note, the John Birth Society, circa 1969, would partially agree with Peters. My family had a few tracts from them squirreled away in the attic. Not that my family were Birchers by any stretch, but these somehow were preserved instead of tossed. Anyways, the Society’s viewpoint was similar, though they didn’t go as far as to call the crew of the Pueblo traitors. Instead, they just thought we were getting too soft to fight the Red Menace, and our men breaking so “easily” was proof of this.)
Quaker in a Basement
There’s the wingnut worldview in a nutshell. And a nut, too, if you include Peters.
“Either you’re with us, or you should be killed.”
Bad Horse's Filly
I am so fucking angry at this, I cannot see straight. I waited, days at a time, computer on at all times, waiting for my brother’s IM to light up and say he was online, meaning he was back from mission safe and sound. Grateful for 5 minute chats here and there.
The first phone call came, there was an IED, took off the door of his truck. After that, I jumped every time the phone rang.
The second phone call came to tell me his convoy had been attacked – the attackers had restraints on them – they wanted hostages. What? You didn’t hear about that – that would be because the MSM and Trent Lott were screaming we were killing Terry Schivo. Not one word in the press about this unpresedented attack.
He’s home now, safe, loved and out of the military, but I still feel it, I feel it for every soldier over there. And I want nothing more than to drop every one of those assholes who say shit like this into the middle of Iraq or in the middle of Taliban strongholds and let them fend for themselves.
shoutingattherain
@cs
Nice typo. Shouldn’t someone be checking Pfc.Bergdahl’s birth cert to see if he’s a Real American. What kind of countertops are in his parents house, also.
Uloborus
I’m pretty much with Quaker! I have firmly concluded that ‘Us vs. Them’ is the central principle of the Right Wing right now. I mean, Peters pretty much showcased it there. If this poor guy isn’t really on our side, he doesn’t deserve mercy.
It’s the same with the Geneva Conventions. Of course they should be upheld for OUR soldiers. Those OTHER guys – they’re the bad guys! Torturing them is not merely legitimate, it’s necessary if it yields any advantage at all, and is probably deserved.
2th&nayle
According to Peter’s Wiki page, he enlisted in the Army in 1976 as a private, went to OCS and retired in 1998 as Lt.Col., which seems fairly impressive until you realize he was 24 years old when he enlisted (1 year older than the solder in question). That means he was draft eligible during VN. I know because he and I are the same age. That also means that his draft number was 49 in a year when the Army called up to number 95. Which would have put Peter’s right in the middle of the inductions. Now, don’t get me wrong here, I give due respect to anyone that’s served. However in light of his “ole Blood and Guts” type pronouncements regarding this young soldier, it seems to me that when Mr. Peters had a chance to serve during war time, he opted to go to college instead. Can you spell “college deferment’? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but you can can come to your own conclusions. Ironically, Wiki also says that Lt.Col. Peter’s is also a regular contributor to History Channel’s “Armchair General” web site. heh heh!
Indylib
Fucking wingnuts! I’m so sick of their “support the troops” crap when it’s convienent for them and their willingness to abandon them when it suits the shitty storyline they want to push or the equipment or care they don’t want to bother to pay for. Pfc.Bergdahl is a human being with a family who loves him. Not a fucking number or a prop in a fucked up play the wingers are trying to sell.
I’ve already e-mailed this story to my husband’s work acct. where I hope he will pass it around at the base. And I won’t hesitate to tell him I told him so about how the Geneva Conventions have to apply to both sides for them to have any meaning. He’s come around now, but this kind of thing was a constant argument between us for the first 3 years of the war in Iraq. Strangely enough he started to come around to my way of thinking once I convinced him to stop watching Fox News all the damned time. It was the default channel playing in the Chief’s Mess when he was stationed on the ship.
Linkmeister
In the military I was in, if you retired as a Lt. Colonel it usually meant you’d been passed over at least once if not twice for promotion to full bird. Peters should have no credibility at all, but because he’s a war-shouter he gets it, particularly from people who don’t know the hierarchy.
That said, this ought to diminish some of that credibility. It may not, but it damned well should.
Victory
Animals is one of the best albums ever.
In fact, for proof, I offer this recording of Pink Floyd….
Pink FLoyd 5-9-77
Oakland, CA
Sheep
Pigs on The Wing Part I
Dogs
Pigs On The Wing Part II
Pigs (Three Different Ones)
Enjoy. :-)
2th&nayle
@Linkmeister: You may well know more about that than I do, but in light of him being a “90 day wonder” instead of attending West Point, VMI, etc, reaching Lt.Col would be about average. It’s a pretty high jump from L.C. to full bird, IIRC.
2th&nayle
@2th&nayle: Oops!! Peters is a regular contributor to Military History Magazine’s “Armchair General” column. Not History Channel. My bad!
Linkmeister
@2th&nayle: Maybe so. My contact with the officer side of things was by virtue of my father, who was promoted to Navy Captain (Army Colonel) in his early forties. When I was a lousy E-4 in the Navy I had little contact with anyone other than Chiefs (E-7s) and lower ranked non-coms.
Oh, and I was surprised to learn that OCS is fourteen weeks nowadays (per Army.mil). If I remember correctly, that’s about how long enlisted boot camp was just before I went in (1972), when it was shortened to nine or ten weeks.
asiangrrlMN
Ralph Peters,
Fuck you.
That is all.
@Bad Horse’s Filly: I am very glad that your brother is back in the States, as safe and as sound as he can be.
I hope the rest of our troops can return safely as well, including this poor guy.
2th&nayle
@Linkmeister: Yeah, well me too, except for flight crews. But seems to me that during the latter stages of VN and afterward, the military started instituting ‘Feet on the Ramp’ and RIF programs due to overmanning. As a consequence, promotions stalled for a while, especially in the officers ranks. But maybe I’m remembering it wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time. BTW, just to be clear, I’m not trying to take up for this shitbird. Just trying to give credit (if you can call it that) where due. Hell, with this jerks attitude, he’s probably lucky he didn’t get fragged by friendlies.
Lesley
The Taliban must shake its collective head at the luck, eh? America is off it’s fucking rocker.
How gutless the press is not to confront the words of this son of a bitch.
Jesus H Christ.
Redhand
This from the Kos link is dead on:
This appears to be only the latest example of the Right’s tendency to exploit and discard American soldiers whenever politically convenient (opposing soldier benefits that might hurt “retention rates,” covering up the Pat Tillman fratricide, etc).
A Mom Anon
I’ve said this before,but really,it’s like they’re daring someone to stop them. When it doesn’t happen,they ramp it up to 11. Because they can.
Disgusting.
WereBear
It’s not strange at all, it’s Fox “News” whole purpose for being. “Don’t watch something else, you’ll just get confused…”
@A Mom Anon
They are dysfunctional people with missing ego boundaries. In the case of our soldiers, we sent them over there, we are responsible for them.
All people are just checkers to the Right Wing.
sameasiteverwas
Indeed, and Lincoln made this explicit in a letter explaining why he had chosen to force the Copperhead Democrat Clement Vallandigham — who advocated immediate peace with the Confederacy and preached that the war was immoral and unconstitutional — into exile in the South, prompting charges that he was overreaching the powers of his office:
Napoleon
@El Cid:
El Cid said “So, um, should we, um, mention the, the Geneva Conventions and such? Or best to keep mum?”
Yesterday I saw a military spokes man on TV yesterday already basically pulling that one by saying that putting the guy on TV was a violation of the laws of war or something along those lines. Over 100 detainees have died in our custody many due to torture and they now expect the Taliban to not put someone on TV.
Cataphract
I grew up reading Peters and thoroughly enjoyed his “The War in 2020” and “Flames of Heaven,” as a similar commenter wrote above.
I will probably not ever read another damn word he writes again.
If PFC Bergdahl did anything wrong, it is still our duty as Americans to bring him home. If he deserted, then he stands trial–in the US, judged by Americans. But we take care of our own. He is an American, and he is his mother’s son.
It is absolutely unconscionable that anyone would even hint at anything like what Peters just hinted at. Peters needs to be ridiculed and blacklisted by anyone with common sense. He’s another of the chickenhawks who just can’t stand that the college-educated black fella beat the rootin-tootin’ “bomb-Iran” ex-POW.
CynDee
@ sameasiteverwas and everybody:
If you can’t maintain an army without extreme punishment for desertion, looks like the cause for is not worth fighting for and hasn’t got the soldiers convinced.
The fact is universally ignored when planning invasions and occupations, because corporate greed and male hubris wants war. And to be fair to the men, there are notable exceptions — I know a shocking number of women who are totally willing to sacrifice their sons’ lives so that as a mother they can feel proud.
By the time young soldiers figure out what pawns they are, they’re alone and they’re doomed, and if they do get back home, only their families — and sometimes not even them — are going to love them and help them and care about their lives.
The only way to stop war is to get all the soldiers to stop going there. Something we can all do — teach young people how war really originates and is executed. If we educate young people and warn them, is that called “sedition”?
There ought to be federal law that anybody for war is required to suit up and go fight it. I mean ANYBODY — 75 and advocating war?? Don’t just put that ribbon on your SUV — GO THERE YOURSELF. So far, no good, because look at whom we would have to convince to pass such a law .
Not for war? You should NOT have to go. Worried that we “need” war? Be a leader on negotiating, calming strife, and laying the practical foundations for sustaining life and health instead of death and destruction.
MattF
Well, the good news is that Peters isn’t commanding any troops. And, by implication, that the US Army felt it had better people than him for that job.
joe from Lowell
Oh my God.
I can only hope this is some kind of a psy-ops strategy to mess with the Talibs’ heads.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Ralph Peters is a horrible, horrible man. The next time some conservative regales me with stories of how liberals hate America because returning Vietnam vets were spat upon by Hippies, Ralph Peters is a more than adequate rebuttal.
SixStringFanatic
@Victory: A thousand thank yous for the live Floyd! This is my favorite PF album and live versions of these songs are a treasure. You are a gentleman, sir!
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
@SixStringFanatic:
Yeah, it’s awesome. Easily one of the most gut-wrenching, misanthropic albums ever released.
IndieTarheel
This miserable p’tahk should suffer discommendation, he has not an ounce of honor within him.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
“Not prejudge [Bergdahl] a hero”?
Like Ralph did Jessica Lynch?
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0304/02/se.27.html
Cassidy
@CynDee: I know you mean well, but your words are just as condescending to us troops as the right wing’s.
angulimala
If he deserted during wartime then he is a very bad person and might deserve the most severe punishment … at the US Army’s hands, not the Taliban’s.
Of course, that might all be crap to slander a man who is making “anti-American” statements under duress.
Call me somewhat skeptical of the charges being made against him.
Julia Grey
I know a shocking number of women who are totally willing to sacrifice their sons’ lives so that as a mother they can feel proud.
They THINK they’re willing. Until the son actually gets killed. Then they understand what their pride was responsible for. Dealing with that on top of normal grief must be very rough.*
Much like the super-patriotic brainwashed kid getting to his glorious war and then realizing the truth of his situation and what he’s doing. In both cases, when the truth is known, it’s too late.
*When I contemplate the idea of losing my own son, even in a GOOD cause, I’m astonished more of those Gold Star mothers don’t go absolutely, head-beating, rubber-room insane.
Julia Grey
P.S. My son is the same age as the prisoner.
debbie
@Andre:
Has anyone got background on the “wandering off base” thing?
When I first heard the announcement of his capture on NPR news (during Saturday Morning Edition), they said he had left the base voluntarily and unarmed. This was never mentioned again on any news report I heard until I saw this thread just now.
Rusty
Wait a minute… didn’t Sarah Palin abandon her post?