I used to respect the Politico’s Ben Smith. Now he quotes Bill Cosby to bash Obama:
“I’ve heard about five different reports,” Cosby said in a Boston radio interview. “If I’m the president of the United States, I don’t care how much pressure people want to put on it about race, I’m keeping my mouth shut.”
“I was shocked to hear the president making this kind of statement,” Cosby said.
This makes me sad. I don’t think that what the Cos is saying is crazy or even necessarily wrong. But the fact he’s cited as an expert here is pretty fucking stupid.
Update. I guess I forgot Atrios’s old maxim:
When one black man says something about another black man, that’s really important news.
Jay in Oregon
What, Will Smith wasn’t available for comment?
beltane
Did we elect Bill Cosby president? I must have missed that one. But while we’re at it, why not do a poll of what other former television stars think of Obama’s statements.
DougJ
What, Will Smith wasn’t available for comment?
Exactly.
Malron
I don’t recall Obama ever making the Gates thing about race. I recall Obama answering a two part question about Gates as it relates to race in America. I also seem to recall Obama doing a great job of answering both questions. I like Bill Cosby, but I have no idea why he’s telling the president he has no right to answer such a question. If the fucking president of the United States can’t answer the damn question, who can?
Desert Rat
Bill Cosby ceased to be relevant before he made his lame ass sitcom in the 1980’s.
I think the Bill Cosby of the 1960’s and 1970’s would shake his head in disbelief at the Bill Cosby of the Naughts.
GregB
Off topic, but it is funny the difference in the burden of proof between confirming Bush’s record of military service and that of President Obama’s birth records.
-G
Oh yeah, and Liddy looks drugged up as all get out.
JK
OT
Lou Dobbs is continuing to push the birther story right now.
lamh31
No disrepect to you white peeps out there, but there are really only 2 things some of ya’ll like to bring up when to discussing Black people: “The Huxtables (i.e. Cosby Show)” and OJ (i.e. homicidal maniac). So I’m not surprised that Politico thought it was relevant to post commentary from Bill Cosby.
I’m just gonna let Eddie Murphy say what I would like to say ’bout Bill Cosby right now:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7106807550024709500
JR (not the other JR)
Bill Cosby hasn’t said anything good about any black person in more than a decade.
“Obama, get off my lawn!”
DougJ
No disrepect to you white peeps out there, but there are really only 2 things some of ya’ll like to bring up when to discussing Black people: “The Huxtables (i.e. Cosby Show)” and OJ (i.e. homicidal maniac).
What about Michael Jordan?
I was just watching that Eddie Murphy clip the other day. It never gets old.
DBrown
This statement by the Cop on a Radio Station says a lot:
“Next, the sergeant said, he warned Professor Gates to calm down and lower his voice, and to step outside to his front porch . Sergeant Crowley said he gave the professor two warnings, the second while holding a set of handcuffs, but that the professor continued berating him. “The professor at any point in time could have resolved the issue by quieting down and/or by going back in the house ,” he said in the radio interview. ”
WTF? Who made Gates leave the house? The Cop! Then he says its all Gates fault because he wouldn’t go back into the house! Now that really proves a lot about the Cop and his attitude
General Winfield Stuck
It does seem like all the over eager beady eyed pinheads at The Politico have decided to make a name for themselves by poking holes in the Obama mystique. Maybe they could ask Hillary how she managed, or mangled, it.
Problem is, most people disapprove of getting arrested for opening the door to their own home, and bringing Fat Albert in on the case isn’t going to change that. Stupid is as stupid does is the watchword for this caper. Didn’t Obama say much the same?
cbear
@GregB: Excellent point!
On a related note: Dan Rather just won the right to examine the CBS records and docs regarding his firing over the Bush National Guard report.
That could get very interesting!
JK
@Jay in Oregon:
Why just quote Bill Cosby?
For the sake of balance, Ben Smith should exercise due diligence and get comments from Denzel Washington, Lawrence Fishburne, Samuel L. Jackson, Morgan Freeman, Spike Lee, Eddie Murphy, Tracy Morgan, Chris Rock, Tim Meadows, D.L. Hughley, Jesse Martin, Eriq La Salle, Epatha Merkerson, C.C.H. Pounder, Alfrew Woodard, and Angela Bassett.
Redhand
It took me a while to “get” the pudding pop reference, but when I did I smiled one of those big Cosby smiles.
I swear, the post titles at BJ are as wicked as the content. Bravo!
And yes, I thought Cosby sucked as a comedian.
Fern
@JK:
Because all black people are experts on all other black people.
JK
@Fern:
I agree with Eddie Murphy. Bill Cosby should have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.
D-Chance.
But the fact he’s cited as an expert here is pretty fucking stupid.
Where does Smith or Politico refer to Cosby as an “expert”?
The Grand Panjandrum
The obvious corollary to Atrios’ maxim: Any randomly selected black person must be able to explain every silly thing Al Sharpton says or does.
lamh31
OT, but shouldn’t this just warm the Congressional Dems heart:
DeMint: “I Am Very Pleased” Dems Have Rejected Obama’s Strategy For Quick Health Care Vote
Way to go Blue Dogs! Show those Repubs who’s the boss.
Comrade Jake
What really pisses me off about this whole thing is that last night, after the presser, Howard Fineman was on CNN talking about how this Gates thing would be the story. When I heard it I thought what a douche Fineman is.
But you know what? It takes a media douche to understand the other media douchebags.
Warren Terra
Other people have similarly addressed the issue of cops getting the people they dislike to go outside and yell, to charge them with being a public nuisance and arrest them, but even among those other posts I thought the one by Mark Kleiman yesterday (I can’t link directly from my phone, but it was at the blog he shares) in which he went through the police report pointing out how the cop was deliberately constructing a situation from which to arrest Gates in as humiliating a manner as possible, was just an excellent post.
I honestly don’t know (and couldn’t prove, in any case) to what extent race influenced Sgt. Crowley’s behavior, but I’ve certainly learned things about ways the cops can legalistically abuse people they take a disliking to (beyond the obviously illegal stuff they can do, which I had heard more about). And if Gates hadn’t been a famous University Professor who’s best friends with important lawyers, he might have been lucky to get the charges dropped.
Evrn now, the Cambridge Police held a press conference doubling down on how Gates is a public menace. And they’re now claiming that Gates’s house was burglarized while he was out of town, but as they have no goldarn credibility left I’m wondering whether the cops burglarized it after the incident, or whether they just bollixed up the investigation because Sgt. Crowley was so busy showing Gates who’s the boss.
Still, I can’t help thinking that a swift public apology and some pious mouthings about more training to deal better with citizens who are a bit freaked out by a stressful situation could have solved this. The twenty-percenters may have adopted Crowley as their latest martyr, but with the cops taking their encouragement as a sign to double down I don’t foresee it turning out well for them.
kid bitzer
no, i don’t think atrios’ maxim really gets it.
“When one black man says something **criticising** another black man, that’s really important news.”
there. that’s more like it.
JK
@Comrade Jake:
Howard Fineman is an MSNBC contributor, but I agree with your larger point.
kay
@DBrown:
The “step outside to the front porch” is what the lawyers are going to seize on.
I don’t know why you do that unless you’re looking to satisfy the elements of the contemplated charge.
Why would he tell him to step outside? It doesn’t make any sense.
That’s the officer’s statement? I think he has to explain what that’s all about.
kid bitzer
also: officer crowley is now going to testify on behalf of firefighter ricci at the sotomayor hearings.
forked tongue
Too bad Tim Russert isn’t around to ask Obama whether he repudiates Cosby’s remarks.
PeakVT
“I was shocked to hear the president making this kind of statement,”
I was shocked to hear Bill Cosby being a useful tool. And by shocked I mean totally unsurprised.
Tax Analyst
Well, I absolutely LOVE your Topic Title here, Doug.
But I DO want to know what Uncle Ben has to say about this issue. I always liked his rice, it was always pure and white, just like all our presidents until recently. He’s gotta know at least as much about this as Bill Cosby.
Davis X. Machina
Pity the poor officer. He can’t arrest Gates for Contempt of Cop inside. And who knows whether there’s a troublemaker outside with a cellphone camera.
Comrade Jake
Anyone catch Obama’s interview with Moran on this? After Moran asks him a second time whether or not he thinks the cops were “stupid”, Obama gives Moran this look like, “Really, THIS is what you want to ASK me about?”
Maus
“I’ve heard about five different reports,” Cosby said”
Yeah, I’ve heard about five different reports from the cop as well.
Lyle4
I want to know what Denzel Washington has to say about this. Since he played Malcolm X, he probably has a good idea how X feels, and since X is Obama’s real father and all, it would be quite a useful insight.
Anne Laurie
You forgot WANDA SYKES!
Darius
The bigger problem here isn’t Cosby, it’s Politico and the rest of the establishment media. They’ve decided upon their narrative – “Obama steps on the third rail of race” – and they’re going to push it as hard as they can, facts and journalistic integrity be damned.
And they wonder why people trust Jon Stewart more than them.
kay
@Davis X. Machina:
He asks him to step outside after showing him the handcuffs. He’s shown him the handcuffs, indicating an impending arrest… but arrest for what? He hasn’t committed a crime yet. He’s just being a jerk, and that’s not a crime.
Step outside! There ya go!
JK
@Anne Laurie:
Thanks. Now the list is complete.
Bender
I don’t recall Obama ever making the Gates thing about race.
Well, let’s look at the
lies and covering upanswer that The Zero gave:“Well, I should say at the outset that “Skip” Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. [Really? Really? Then maybe you should shut up. Or you could lie a bunch of times to make your Good Friend Skip appear the blameless victim of Evil Whitey With A Badge. Yeah… go with that.]
“I don’t know all the facts. [No kidding. Then shut your hole. That’s what a smart, honest man would do.] What’s been reported, though, is that the guy forgot his keys [wrong], jimmied his way to get into the house, there was a report called into the police station that there might be a burglary taking place — so far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into — well, I guess this is my house now so — (laughter) — it probably wouldn’t happen. But let’s say my old house in Chicago — (laughter) — here I’d get shot. (Laughter.) [Cops love to shoot black men! HAHAHAHAHAHA!]
“…There’s a call, they go investigate what happens. My understanding is at that point Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in, I’m sure there’s some exchange of words, but my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his ID to show that this is his house. And at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct [Dead wrong. Obama conveniently leaves out all the vile shit that His Good Friend Skip said to the cop, all the disturbance on the street, just to whitewash it for His Good Friend Skip. In other words, he lied.] — charges which are later dropped.
Now, I don’t know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that [Then shut up about it. Don’t bring race into it. Or… go ahead and race-bait.], but I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry [Why would I be angry at a cop investigating a break-in that was reported by my neighbor? Please to explain!]; number two, that the Cambridge Police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home [He obviously wasn’t arrested for breaking into the house, but for disturbance — loudly being a douchebag to the cop in his front yard — so it doesn’t matter whose house it was.]; and number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately [That’s where he brings race into it. And it’s a silly point. Crowley didn’t “stop” Gates on a profile. He confronted Gates because of a complaint by his neighbor that there might be a break-in afoot.]. That’s just a fact. [An irrelevant one.]
…And that’s why I think the more that we’re working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we’re eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be. [No shit, Barry. Officer Crowley taught such a class, and was handpicked for that assignment because the black Commissioner knew he was a good, honest cop.]
drillfork
@lamh31:
Um, Dave Chappelle? The Rick James thing is still the funniest thing about anything, ever…
kid bitzer
you know, bender, i’m grateful for your posting a transcript–i actually had not seen it before. (and i’m assuming your transcript is complete and accurate).
if that’s what he said, then i don’t see any problem with it at all.
he told no lies. he did not make any premature assumptions. he did not bring in race anywhere it did not belong.
from the transcript, i’d say his response was actually…presidential.
it cheers me up to have such a smart, level-headed guy in the white house.
thanks!
Davis X. Machina
[He obviously wasn’t arrested for breaking into the house—he was arrested for loudly being a douchebag to the cop in his front yard.];
No he wasn’t, and even if he was, he can’t be arrested for it, not in Massachusetts.
Does Gates’ action meet a., b., or c. above?
(Note ‘purpose’ in preamble to a. Inadvertent doesn’t cut it….)
Bender
Obama gives Moran this look like, “Really, THIS is what you want to ASK me about?”
“Distraction! Can’t I just eat my waffles? I can’t end up visiting with you guys and shaking hands if I’m going to get grilled every time I come down here.”
Bender
he told no lies.
None so blind as a Kool-Aid drinker, I guess…
JR (not the other JR)
If people could be arrested just for being a douchebag… there would be no internets.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Soooo. Either only White presidents are allowed to comment about race or no presidents are allowed to comment about race … or Bill has been driven mad by those fugly sweaters.
KRK
They just can’t help the stupid. I’m confident Obama can handle it.
As for Cosby, I’ll always like him best as Mother.
kay
@Bender:
Bender, police are supposed to make arrests. It’s what they do. You have to understand that questioning the circumstances of the arrest is not personal. The state has the burden, and they don’t take it personally. They’re professionals.
You do take it personally. This is about more than this cop or this arrest to you. You’re a partisan, and you’re using it to promote a theme, which is exactly what you’re accusing Obama of doing.
If the charges hadn’t been dropped, the state would have to satisfy every element of the charge, and the police officer would not take that personally. It won’t get there, because the prosecutor dropped the charges. We can question this police officer’s actions. It’s permitted.
You have it exactly backward. The police officer knows you have it backward. He’s the one with the burden, not Gates.
freelancer
Charles Pierce, author of Idiot America
on Countdown right now about GOPers refusing to jettison the birthers.
“Because they have seen in the past the political advantage to doing the ‘nudge nudge wink wink’ dance on this kind of thing. This isn’t any siller that what Sen Inhofe says about global warming. Its just the Id of the party rather prominantly displayed”
Mike G
Obama gives Moran this look like, “Really, THIS is what you want to ASK me about?”
Get a brain, Moran.
One thing remains true: This is good news for John McCain.
Bender
Does Gates’ action meet a., b., or c. above?
Section (b): There IS NO Section (b)!
Look, the cop used “tumultuous” — as in section (a) — about five times in his statement, so that’s what he was going with.
Again, in a perfect world, I think this officer should’ve had super-human, armour-plated skin and just walked away. But I can’t fault a cop for cuffing such a blatant asshole who’s screaming him down in front of people, threatening him, acting above the law, and calling him some of the most vile shit you can. I just can’t fault him.
JR (not the other JR)
@Bender: So, you witnessed the arrest?
metricpenny
DougJ, that title says it all.
Bill Cosby is the quintessential blowhard when it comes to scolding black folks.
He lost me (black woman here) years ago when he berated black parents on how they were raising their children.
Instead of offering some constructive assistance – he is a multi-millionaire with a PhD in Education after all – he was simply content with denigrating them. And then took his show on the road and the traditional media was happy to accomodate him.
Pudding pop up the ass, indeed.
kay
@Bender:
You’re wrong there. Threatening a cop is a crime. There weren’t any threats. I’m confident of that. Unless you mean threatening to call the police officer’s boss, but that happens all the time to public employees, and any employee, anywhere.
freelancer
I wonder who’s going to ask Whoopi Golberg about Gatesgate. This is how realignments happen.
kay
@Bender:
His bigger problem will be with the “step outside”. It’s clear Gates was loud and rude, but it has to be public, and there’s the problem.
The Moar You Know
@Bender: I don’t know, you might want to check that homebrew you’ve been cooking up in your bathtub. I think you put some radiator fluid in it by accident.
gwangung
So, basically, no, he didn’t meet the requirements.
kay
“Public” is defined as affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access.
“Step outside”. Huh.
Svensker
Who is this Bender person and why does he keep talking about pie?
metricpenny
freelancer @55 (Sorry folks. I don’t know how to do the fancy linky thingy)
Funny you should ask. Saw her on The View today. Her ONLY view was that she was angry with President Obama for using the word “stupid”.
Whoppi declared, “Nobody should use the word stupid.” [Hard glare with pouting, angry, pursed lips.]
lamh31
Warning, this is just a serious rant, it’s probably pretty inchohernt, so read it at your own peril.
Seriously though, this whole discussions and the ensuing “media fire-storm” that’s been happening, is just making me angry. As an African American, you just write off many of these occurences and just being apart of the African American experience in America. You know that no matter what you do, or what activity you are involved in, the phrase “while black” can be added to all of them, and somehow makes otherwise completely normal things for white people seems somehow “foreign” for black people (i.e. “driving while black”, “shopping while black”, etc).
You talk and joke about it with your family and your friends, but inside you know it’s pisses you off. It may not have personally happened to you, but you know at least 1personal acquaintance or relative who has had the “…while black” experience. You don’t expect anyone white to discuss it, and if they do, you expect that they will probably just try to give you a “there, there” pat on the back, while secretly thinking WTF is she talking about.
If it does happen that it somehow makes the local news. It’s usually does so because something more fatal has occurred or someone has decided to speak up, and 9 times outa 10, the news will just report it from the PD side anyway, usually with the usual buzz words: belligerent, disorderdly, disruptive, suspect seemed to threaten PD…etc.
So we finally get someone in the WH who speaks honestly about the feelings of a whole group of Americans (black males) who have these shared life experiences simply by virtue of their skin tone, and damn it we are happy that finally someone knows our experiences, and what happens, the national media just follows the same pattern as the local media. Instead of some real reporting about racial profiling or at the very least some real reporting about the increasing trend of the use excessive force, or abuse of power by some (not all) policeman, instead it’s “Obama says calls police stupid”, or “Heroic policemen smeared as racist by President Obama” (never mind that Obama never said the policeman was stupid or racist.
Between this BS, the birther nonsense, the Malia Obama peace shirt brouhaha, the racist emails, the racist twitters, and whatever else…IT’S PATHETIC, and it’s not even 1 year into the Obama Presidency.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
It slays me when people believe anything they read on a police report–and I’m not just talking about evil, shit-for-brains racist douchebags like Bender. I once had to sit in a cop car and watch while my buddy’s car was being gutted by two cops desperate to find a reason, ANY reason for why they’d pulled him over in the first place. Finally they found a rusty beer-bottle cap under the back seat of this 15-year-old car that he’d owned for maybe 2 years. They wanted to call that an “open container” and nail him with driving around with it. Same penalty as DWI of course.
Another friend of a friend had the cops come to his house on a domestic disturbance report (which was bullshit to begin with–he and his partner were having an argument, and they were committing the crime of being gay in Eastern Washington.) He’d had a few drinks and had his car keys in his pocket. Bingo: he was guilty of “Physical Control of a Motor Vehicle while Under the Influence of Intoxicating Liquor.” Again–same penalty as DWI.
They have laws that make it possible to arrest anybody at any time, and they will make up any shit they have to to make one of them fit. Anybody who believes anything it says on a police report is an idiot.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
But he’s the guy with … the pudding!!
/30 Rock
Jason Bylinowski
I could care less (but not much) about the race element to the story, when to me it’s clear as crackers that what we have here is yet another more generalized case of Police Asshole Syndrome.
Here’s a simple thought experiment:
If we’re sitting on my front porch, and you yell at me, can I have you arrested for that? No. I could call the cops and have you escorted off my property if I so desired but an arrest would never happen. Turn it around: we’re on my front porch, and I yell at you this time. Of course nothing happens in this case either because, frankly, nothing happened except perhaps some hurt feelings.
But apparently it’s okay as long as you are a cop. The President has weighed in on this and to some extent I think he gets it too. (Though personally I believe he should have probably stayed out of it, even while I agree with his statement last night.)
The racial element to this story might as well be fictional for all the evidence we have: it’s simply one man’s word against another’s, and both have much at stake here. No, what really bothers me is that cops today are given so much damned leeway to arrest citizens that it’s gotten to the point that whenever I walk past a police officer on the street, I get nervous for no reason at all. Times past, I did not feel that way about policemen. But think about it: it’s your fucking house! You just showed your ID to a cop who barged in your front door, and so now you’re pissed. You have two choices: keep that tail between your legs and feel ashamed about doing so later, or assert yourself in the only place on earth where you are supposed to have sovereignty: your fucking castle.
Skip Gates may or may not be right when he says that the whole thing was motivated by race – I actually have some doubt about that. What I don’t doubt is that this cop (among many, unfortunately) is a gonna be a prick, no matter what color you might be.
Warren Terra
I think we still need to get Idris Elba to weigh in. Sure, he’s a Brit, but he was pretty much the iconic upwardly-mobile inner-city African-American dude on the first couple of seasons of The Wire.
lamh31
Not even 1 year into Obama Presidency, I don’t know how I’m gonna last the whole 4 years without seriously wanting to hurt some people
Anne Laurie
Well, nobody’s mentioned Anna Deavre Smith yet, and she even has a “hot” show on HBO now!
Mostly I was hoping somebody else would remember the pearl-clutching over Sykes’ viscious, unprovoked attack on poor Rush Limbaugh at the latest Washington Correspondents Dinner. Even if that was a whole, what? two, three months ago?
Midnight Marauder
You know, at least with BOB, there’s the occasional hilarity with his increasing absurdity. But with you, Bender, you just seem to be an obfuscating jackass (and of a similar douchebag genus with, say, the person who leaked the ending of the final Harry Potter book).
number two, that the Cambridge Police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home [He obviously wasn’t arrested for breaking into the house, but for disturbance—loudly being a douchebag to the cop in his front yard—so it doesn’t matter whose house it was.]
You’re right in that Gates was arrested for “disturbance,” but absolutely wrong that it doesn’t matter whose house it was. Keep this small fact in mind: the “disturbance” was Gates reaction to having to prove that it was HIS house and that not being enough to resolve the situation. There’s a reason John keeps pointing out that the police are the professionals in this situation. We pay them to de-escalate situations of varying levels of danger. We do not pay them to arrest people after they’ve proven they were attempting to enter their own house and turn the situation into an OMGMEDIAFIRESTORMANGRYNEGROESWTF!?!!? That’s the biggest issue here. After Gates established that it was his residence, THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THE POLICE’S CONTINUED PRESENCE.
“Sorry for the confusion, sir. You never can be too careful, especially since this area has seen some break-ins recently. Have a good evening.”
Please explain why that did not happen.
and number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately [That’s where he brings race into it. And it’s a silly point. Crowley didn’t “stop” Gates on a profile. He confronted Gates because of a complaint by his neighbor that there might be a break-in afoot.]
Again…the point, you miss it. Whether Gates was stopped on profile is not the issue being discussed, nor is it pertinent. Obama’s comment was simply meant to provide a greater context that when entire cultural communities grow up seeing rampant police corruption and authoritarianism at their expense, they’re bound to be distrusting of the police in ANY AND ALL SITUATIONS. Especially situations like being mistaken for breaking in to your own home. Regardless of your race, I would imagine most people would be upset with that. When mistrusting the Boys in Blue is ingrained into your DNA, that kind of situation might be a little more volatile than usual. Indeed, maybe that’s why Obama stated that “cooler heads” should have prevailed on BOTH sides of the situation.
That’s just a fact. [An irrelevant one.]
Only to you.
DaBomb
@metricpenny: Yeah, she known for that hard glare. She called Glenn Beck a “hot sack of dog mess” and look at him with a hard glare over her glasses. I did agree with her on that, but I am not a big fan.
Sometimes I wouldn’t mind suggesting that Lou Dobbs, Rushbo, and Liddy sit on a pudding pop and rotate.
Unfortunately, they wouldn’t because Dobbs would complain about it being brown, Rushbo would want to eat it, and Liddy wouldn’t be able to find it.
pip
LOL
kid bitzer
lamh31–
i can see why you’re pissed.
but i also see a lot of progress in this whole picture–a lot of progress. it helps to have seen times when it was much worse, i guess.
what you’re talking about now is the racist rump, making itself look incredibly ugly and out of touch. the lou dobbs, glenn beck, loser-demographic.
the benders of this world are marching backwards, while america is marching forward.
it can piss you off how slow the change is happening. but it is happening.
El Cid
Wasn’t Pr. Gates arrested for the crime of asking for a cop’s name and badge number? I thought the normal punishment for that was being tasered, or maybe having a SWAT team “accidentally” confuse your house with the ‘suspected’ meth / crack dealer next door.
lamh31
I hear ya kid bitzer, but what really gets in my craw, it when I hear such biased story on what I used to consider reputable news programs and news site. Maybe it’s my naivete, but I expect such completely biased coverage on FOX news, and the RW radio bigots.
No, I was watching CNN, and had to hear that prick Rick Sanchez, quoting verbatim from the report the police officer did as “the definitive record” on what happened even though Gates had given an interview to Soledad O’Brien telling his side. Didn’t matter to Rick, because what the police officer wrote was “on the record” therefore it just HAD to be the TRUE story, thank goodness that Roland Martin was on the show and called Rick on his b.s.
Bender
It slays me when people believe anything they read on a police report—and I’m not just talking about evil, shit-for-brains racist douchebags like Bender.
LOL! How am I Teh Racizt again? Did Janeanne Garofalo spot me at a tea party?
grimc
Gates wrote an op-ed for the NYT in 1989 entitled, “TV’s Black World Turns – But Stays Unreal”
He wrote:
What’s troubling about the phenomenal success of ”Cosby,” then, is what was troubling about the earlier popularity of ”Amos ‘n’ Andy”: it’s not the representation itself (Cliff Huxtable, a child of college-educated parents, is altogether believable), but the role it begins to play in our culture, the status it takes on as being, well, truly representative.
Y’think Cosby, even 20 years on, liked that a prominent black scholar comparing his show to “Amos ‘n’ Andy”? Or that the scholar ripped apart Cosby’s Ward Connerly-like philosophy about the difficulties of being black in America (‘It’s not because you’re black, it’s because you’re lazy’)?
But more to the point, y’think Smith might’ve known that Cosby’s view on race was diametrically opposed to Gates, and/or had a personal beef with him?
kid bitzer
no, bender, i’m sure you’re not a racist. not you.
you just happen to agree with them about matters that involve race, that’s all.
pip
Just listening to some of the talk radio people prooves your point quite nicely. Asside from being wrong about most everything, they are always yelling and shouting and stirring shit up. But that’s ok, they are white boys.
White radio yakker shouts down a black caller? He’s a fightin’ conservative.
Black caller raises his vioce to said radio yakker, he’s shouting down the host.
The Moar You Know
Bender:
We Get It. You’re bummed that Officer Niggerhater didn’t empty the magazine of his Glock into Professor Gates’ head, and you’re doubly pissed that the blackity-black man who dares call himself the President of the United States of America called out Officer Darkiesmacker on his bullshit shenanigans. We understand completely.
It’s hard bein’ a white guy these days, ya know? Got no one left to feel superior to. Tough road to hoe, my friend. We understand, and we feel your pain. Diggin’ a trench back to the 19th century is hard work.
Kris
@Warren Terra:
Mmm Idris. I could lick him like a pudding pop.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Bender:
gsp
how the fuck do you remember something a guy posted over a year ago. i see greenwald, digby and now you, pull out posts like these all the time. shit, i can’t remember to scrub my balls most mornings when i take a shower.
Seebach
My mother worked at a state prison for several years. She was often more disgusted by the prison guards than the inmates. There are some sociopaths that break against society, and then there are other sociopaths who want to crack skulls but are too afraid to go against the rules. So they just decide to crack skulls for the state, rather than against it.
kay
@El Cid:
Once the police officer determines he is going to make an arrest he’s ticking off the elements required to get a conviction, because that is his job.
The arrest isn’t the end. He’s supposed to hand a neat little package, elements all checked off in the right boxes, to the prosecutor. They aren’t just making arrests in a sloppy panic.
Arrests are supposed to result in convictions. I’m not blaming the police officer for satisfying the elements once he decided to arrest. I’d like to know why he decided to arrest. I suspect he was angry because Gates was so rude, but that’s a no-no, for the officer. Can’t take it personal.
We may never know, because they dropped the charge.
freelancer
@metric
This is like 1 or 2 days after she was verbally sympathetic to Moon Hoaxer Conspiracy Theorists, and she said this with a straight face sitting at the same table with these fucking women?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGLXqW1kUs
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8785701997189530908&ei=bBVpSpWrBIqerwL6yNDpCw&q=sherri+shepherd&hl=en
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSra-McRZEc
Please, God. We need to hear from more celebrities.
El Cid
@kay: Well, I admit I am giving weight to Gates’ chronology which had him demanding, and not receiving, the investigating cop’s name and badge number from the moment he was in the house and had verified Gates’ ID and address, and then Gates followed the cop out still demanding a name and badge number. That’s why I think Gates was basically arrested for daring to insist he receive the officer’s name and badge number.
Cain
@DougJ:
I was just watching that Eddie Murphy clip the other day. It never gets old.
Eddie Murphy never gets old. I only have to think about his routine before I start chuckling. My favorite was the skit where he’s wondering who would make funny gay people, and coming up with Ralph Cramden from the honey mooners was so much comic gold.
The expression “Hummana hummana hummana” will never mean the same thing after that…
cain
kid bitzer
Whoppi declared, “Nobody should use the word stupid.”
sorry, whoopi: that’s just a stupid thing to say.
Bender
Keep this small fact in mind: the “disturbance” was Gates reaction to having to prove that it was HIS house and that not being enough to resolve the situation.
You’re making that up. Or were you there and saw things that are not in any reports?
As I stated on the other thread, straight from the police report (which is all we know as factual at this point), Gates called the officer a racist from the get-go, and was calling to get Crowley busted by “the Chief” before the officer even had time to explain that he was only investigating a report from a neighbor.
When Gates finally offered some ID, it was called in, according to procedure (they apparently need to provide proof rather than just accept the word of whoever’s in the house — imagine that!), to Harvard and to the Cambridge Police, and the officer — while Gates was blasting him as a racist and saying he was going to call the Chief and do you know who you’re messing with and you haven’t heard the last of me and “YO MAMA!” — said he was going to leave now. He was satisfied, and never gave Gates any kind of a hard time about the ID “not being enough to resolve the situation” (Yes, I understand this is Crowley’s report, but it’s all we have to go on for now). He left the house, Gates followed him out onto his porch to yell “racist” at him a few more times in front of everybody. Class act!
If Crowley did anything to antagonize Gates, it certainly hasn’t been reported by anyone who was there.
they’re bound to be distrusting of the police in ANY AND ALL SITUATIONS. Especially situations like being mistaken for breaking in to your own home. Regardless of your race, I would imagine most people would be upset with that.
Understood, although this is a Harvard Professor who says he’s never been mistreated by the police his entire life, and indeed, found such a thing unthinkable!
So if we buy that Gates was belligerent because he mistrusted police (which I don’t buy as a motive to pull out “YO MAMA!”): Someone please explain why Gates would be “distrusting” of the police, but have nothing but praise for the racially-profiling neighbor who called the police because two black men with backpacks were on Gates’ porch? Explain THAT. If the neighbor deserves praise for calling the cops, then the cop deserves nothing but praise for doing what should’ve been a two minute investigation.
Gates was wrong in acting like a power-drunk fool. Obama was wrong to misstate the facts (“I don’t know the facts, but” is one of the dumbest things that I’ve ever heard a President say) and whitewash it so his friend looked like the victim rather than the asshole instigator, and Crowley was probably wrong to pull out cuffs (although he’s the only one who, from what we know, had any real provocation for his actions).
Punchy
I’m sure I’m at least the 141st person to comment on this, but who is Evony, and how do I purchase her?
Holy front junk…..wowsers.
IndieTarheel
@lamh31: Well said. Been there, done that.
freelancer
argh, Will no one rid us of this turbulent robot?
Bender
No, it’s because you keep repeating the same fucking lies about the incident that you either pulled straight out of your ass or got from Rush Limprod. It’s because you won’t acknowledge that you’re lying your evil, shit-for-brains, racist douchebag ass off, no matter how many times your lies have been exposed. Things like that.
It would help if you’d mention the relevant “lies” which I got straight from the police report, but you probably won’t, because this is Balloon Juice, a fact-free zone.
And even if I was telling lies (I’m not), how does that make me an evil racist again?
Good day to you, sir!
Mark S.
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
It’s amazing how many people make the mistake of dropping their narcotics right in front of the police.
Bender
We Get It. You’re bummed that Officer Niggerhater didn’t empty the magazine of his Glock into Professor Gates’ head, and you’re doubly pissed that the blackity-black man who dares call himself the President of the United States of America called out Officer Darkiesmacker on his bullshit shenanigans. We understand completely.
I see that John Cole is dancing around the other thread, denying that he ever said the cop (who taught an anti-profiling class at the behest of a black Commissioner, and who gave CPR to the dying Reggie Lewis in an attempt to save a black man’s life) is a racist.
After all, he has his brainless minions to do that for him.
NickM
“Shove the pudding pop up your ass”
Oddly, this was #14 on Cosby’s “20 Things you Can do with A Jell-O Brand Pudding Pop (besides eating it),” an article published in the August 16, 1985 edition of Parade Magazine.
Bender
argh, Will no one rid us of this turbulent robot?
Kiss my shiny metal ass.
NonyNony
@Bender:
This ranks as the most hilariously accidentally self-reflective quote I’ve seen all day.
Well done Mr. Bender sir! I don’t know if you’re someone wearing a sock puppet or an honest-to-Grod kool-aid drinking right-winger, but you spout some hilarious bullshit.
Bender
Well done Mr. Bender sir! I don’t know if you’re someone wearing a sock puppet or an honest-to-Grod kool-aid drinking right-winger, but you spout some hilarious bullshit.
Is “Yer a spoof!” what passes for intellig…oh, wait…I forgot what blog I was on. Carry on with the ad hominem, Juicers!
Hunter Gathers
@Bender: It’s BITE my shiny metal ass, you meatbag.
Comrade Kevin
@Cain: There’s the Eddie Murphy thing where Richard Pryor advises Murphy that he should “Tell Bill Cosby to have a Coke and a Smile and shut the fuck up”.
@Hunter Gathers: LULZ
freelancer
Kiss my shiny metal ass.
CatchphraseFAIL.
Malron
@ Bender.
Ya know, calling the president “The Zero” pretty much gave you away but I was gonna temper my response to you. After seeing the rest of the comments in response to yours, there’s no longer any need for me to bother.
gwangung
@Bender: Dude, up your game. You’re BORING.
mcc
Bill Cosby is shocked that the President answered a question asked of him at a press conference.
Apparently he got really used to the Bush years
Bender
@Bender: Dude, up your game. You’re BORING.
Yeah, I should post, “Yer a spoof!” and “Pie!” and “Racist” and “same to you but more of it!” Then I’d fit in here in this eighth-grader blog. Because that stuff is gold, Jerry! Gold!
Face it, you guys have nothing. I’m only boring because I’m right, you’re wrong, and you’ve got nothing of value to add.
Midnight Marauder
@Bender:
When Gates finally offered some ID, it was called in, according to procedure (they apparently need to provide proof rather than just accept the word of whoever’s in the house—imagine that!), to Harvard and to the Cambridge Police, and the officer—while Gates was blasting him as a racist and saying he was going to call the Chief and do you know who you’re messing with and you haven’t heard the last of me and “YO MAMA!”—said he was going to leave now. He was satisfied, and never gave Gates any kind of a hard time about the ID “not being enough to resolve the situation” (Yes, I understand this is Crowley’s report, but it’s all we have to go on for now). He left the house, Gates followed him out onto his porch to yell “racist” at him a few more times in front of everybody. Class act!
From the report:
While I was led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence, I was quite surprised and confused with the behavior he exhibited toward me.
Crowley comes to this conclusion before Gates even shows him the ID. I think that’s an important point.
When Gates asked a third time for my name, I explained to him that I had provided it at his request two separate times. Gates continued to yell at me. I told Gates that I was leaving his residence and that if he had any other questions regarding the matter, I would speak with him outside the residence.
Now, by this point in the story, Crowley has come to the conclusion that Gates is most likely the official resident of the location; Gates has (begrudgingly) given him his Harvard ID, which has been radioed in and confirmed; and Gates is still demanding Crowley’s name and badge number. I know how much you’ve loved saying that Crowley had already “told” Gates his name, but that is far from sufficient unless he had spelled his name explicitly (first and last), in addition to providing the badge number. As you surely know, when these are requested by citizens, officers are legally required to provide them. Going by the report, it does not appear that Crowley had sufficiently met the burden of establishing his own identity in the situation (maybe it’s Crawley. Or Crowly. Crowli. Just saying the shit out loud is not good enough).
The point is, Crowley was most likely aware that he had failed to satisfy Gates’ request for his name/badge #. So by saying “follow me outside if you have any questions and i’ll answer them,” you’re going to tell me that Crowley wasn’t expecting this “tumultuous” old man to follow him out there repeating the same line of questioning? Or moreover, after he verified who Gates was and that it was house, WHAT REASON DID HE HAVE TO STICK AROUND?
Someone please explain why Gates would be “distrusting” of the police, but have nothing but praise for the racially-profiling neighbor who called the police because two black men with backpacks were on Gates’ porch? Explain THAT. If the neighbor deserves praise for calling the cops, then the cop deserves nothing but praise for doing what should’ve been a two minute investigation.
What should have been a two minute investigation. But that was most certainly not. And why would that be? What would be that missing link that would cause Gates to praise the woman (who was not a neighbor, but rather someone who worked in the nearby area) for calling the police when witnessing a potential “robbery”, but not for the police who somehow bungled a simple two minute investigation. And pray tell, exactly how would that two minute investigation have gone in your world? When would the police have left Gates’ residence, you know, since he’s the one who lived there and all and they were just visiting?
Gates was wrong in acting like a power-drunk fool.
He certainly was a fool, but I think the guy with the gun, the badge, the authority of the state, and the ability to detain anyone he deems a “threat” would be the more likely to be drunk on power. Since he’s the person with the power in the situation. Also.
Crowley was probably wrong to pull out cuffs
Good to know which side gets the caveats for their actions.
Anne Laurie
Y’know, entertaining as the quick retort is, sometimes it’s for the best if we just STOP FEEDING THE GODSDAMNED TROLL. It won’t go away completely, but if it doesn’t get the reinforcement it’s looking for, there will be at least 50% less idiocy per thread.
I believe Cleek has a greasemonkey scrip, if the temptation is too strong. Maybe he can replace “I like pie!” with “Diggin’ a trench back to the 19th century is hard work!”
gnomedad
@kid bitzer:
You’re shittin’ me.
Crowley / Ricci 2012, bitches!
Comrade Kevin
@Bender: Bite my glorious golden ass.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
“and who gave CPR to the dying Reggie Lewis in an attempt to save a black man’s life”
This really has nothing to do with whether officer Crowley is a racist or not. I guarantee you, even the most unreconstructed racist would have worked feverishly to revive an African-American professional athlete as good at his sport as Lewis was. There are certain lines that even an hysterical bigot won’t cross, and endangering an important member of a local sports franchise is one of them.
And please note, by observing this I am not taking a position on whether officer Crowley is a racist or not.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Bender:
Well, you led with this shit: https://balloon-juice.com/?p=24481#comment-1307809
freelancer
@Midnight Marauder:
Damn, you should change your handle to Summer Glau.
Nutella
I don’t see why Cosby can’t be cited as an expert here. If Sarah Palin is the expert on cap-and-trade at the Washington Post, then everybody’s an expert on everything.
Bender
Gates has (begrudgingly) given him his Harvard ID, which has been radioed in and confirmed; and Gates is still demanding Crowley’s name and badge number.
We don’t know that Gates ever asked for a badge number. All that’s in the report is that he asked for his name, which, for all we know, Crowley had spelled, written down, and given in sign language.
More tellingly, Gates didn’t ask for Crowley’s name or badge number when Crowley walked out the door. Instead, he said “Yeah, I’ll speak to yo mama outside” (Harvard material!) and then came out to call him a racist and say you don’t know who I am and you haven’t seen the last of me. If he wanted the badge number or the spelling of the name, he could’ve gotten it then, but instead he chose to be belligerent. Which tells me he wasn’t interested in names and badges.
Or moreover, after he verified who Gates was and that it was house, WHAT REASON DID HE HAVE TO STICK AROUND?
He was leaving. What about that don’t you get? He said he was leaving, and IF Gates had questions, he could talk to him while he was leaving. If not, Crowley was gone. He wasn’t “sticking around” if Gates wouldn’t have felt the need to upbraid this cop in front of the people on the street.
but not for the police who somehow bungled a simple two minute investigation.
Bungled? How? By being called a racist by a guy who is going to call your Chief because you did your job? All Gates had to do was fork over the ID and understand that this cop was just carrying through with a complaint. Again, nothing in the report indicates that Crowley was the one stalling matters, so unless other facts come to light, I’m assuming that the guy who refuses to produce ID, then gets on the phone to find “the Chief,” then calls the cop a racist for doing his job is the guy who is lengthening the proceedings.
He certainly was a fool, but I think the guy with the gun, the badge, the authority of the state, and the ability to detain anyone he deems a “threat” would be the more likely to be drunk on power. Since he’s the person with the power in the situation.
The guy who, instead of answering police questions, calls “the Chief,” says “you don’t know who you’re messing with” and “you haven’t heard the last from me” isn’t throwing around his power? He’s threatening the cop’s job with his connections, and he’s not powertripping? Please…
Nothing in Crowley’s report indicates that, before or after the arrest, Crowley didn’t treat Gates with respect. So unless other facts come out, I think you’re full of shit here.
Bob In Pacifica
I was a race relations specialist in the army 72-73. At the time the army was tearing itself apart with racial stress and we went from post to post around New England to get people to try to understand each other. We used a film that Cosby narrated as part of the curriculum. At the time it was on point. It seems that since then Ol’ Cos has gotten out of touch with the world, I’m afraid.
Sure, any time that Obama comments on race a bunch of reactionaries will get their panties in a bunch. But racists get their panties in a bunch when Obama doesn’t comment on race.
Bender
I know it wasn’t in the street. I was wrong before, as I admitted earlier. The cop was walking to the street and Gates was on the porch. Wow. Devastating to my point. Oh, no — wait. Totally irrelevant to my point.
The original post was still wrong that it was “in his house.” Seriously, that’s all you have for a “lie?” Weak.
kid bitzer
“Nothing in Crowley’s report indicates that, before or after the arrest, Crowley didn’t treat Gates with respect.”
you don’t say? that’s incredible! a police report in which the officer does not admit to being disrespectful to a citizen–who has ever heard of such a thing?
bender, you are such a pathetic loser. crowley clearly panicked and lost his cool in a very unprofessional way. gates may have been a blowhard and a jerk, but he was *in his own house*.
crowley had nothing. you got nothing. get outta here, go back to your loser friends, and leave decent people alone.
Nutella
An AP story today says “Obama’s public criticism that Cambridge officers “acted stupidly” when they arrested black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. could make it harder for police to work with people of color, some officers said Thursday.” I guess that means his remark will make people of color nervous when they weren’t nervous before. Since nobody thought cops can act stupidly until the president mentioned it.
Comrade Kevin
@Nutella: Did they name who the “some officers” are? Or are those officers part of the amorphous “They say that…” ?
someguy
Bender, it’s nearly midnight. Better get going or you and Officer whathisname are going to be late for the cross burning.
kid bitzer
they are the officers who previous felt comfortable in the knowledge that they could do anything they wanted to people of color and not get criticized.
damn–it was *so* comfortable, too. and thinking that you might be accountable to your fellow citizens? well, that just makes it hard to work!
amk
@lamh31:
Thanks lamh for the Eddie Murphy vid. A perfect skewering of righteous and pompous cosby huckstable.
And I see that bender is still the troll, who is also clueless and idjit. Boy, I love teh ad hominem attacks, especially on a clueless and moronic troll.
pip
Comments from a wingnutty blog:
It’s the big excuse for all. I get paid by you, but you aren’t the boss of me!!!
Nutpicking is not beneath me . . . .
Comrade Kevin
@pip:
I doubt the guy would actually like to test that.
Nutella
AP story
The sentence I quoted wasn’t sourced to anybody except ‘some officers’, but later quotes in the article were attributed to specific people.
If that link doesn’t work the story is at the top of http://news.yahoo.com/us now.
J. Michael Neal
@freelancer: How was the movie?
asiangrrlMN
OK, I have nothing to say about this except I LOVE the title of the thread, DougJ. It really tickled my funny bone.
Comrade Kevin
@Nutella: Nice manufactured outrage.
Midnight Marauder
@Bender:
We don’t know that Gates ever asked for a badge number. All that’s in the report is that he asked for his name, which, for all we know, Crowley had spelled, written down, and given in sign language.
We people ask police officers to identify themselves, it is generally presumed by all parties that part of that identification will include a badge number. You know, since that’s the reason they have them. Seriously, man?
FROM THE REPORT:
Gates initially refused [to prove me with photo identification], demanding that I show him identification but then he did supply me with a Harvard University identification card.
Now, this is probably going to blow your fucking mind, but Massachusetts actually has some kind of law about this on the books:
Massachusetts law requires police officers to carry identification cards and present them upon request. Officers are also required to wear a “badge, tag, or label” with their name and/or identifying number. The law is aimed at precisely the situation in question—suspects who feel their rights are being violated.
And–whoa, get this–if Crowley had “spelled, written down, and given in sign language” his name, he is required to PUT IT IN THE FUCKING POLICE REPORT. Oh wait. It’s not in there? Hmm. That’s odd. I would imagine that if Crowley had fulfilled his obligation as he was legally obligated, that would be in his meticulously constructed report. But from everything I’ve read, it sounds like Crowley never properly identified himself.
A recreation of the failure, just for you:
Gates: I want to see your ID! Show me your badge! I want to see some ID!
Crowley: Again, sir, I am Sergeant James Crowley, Cambridge PD.
That’s probably what happened. And that’s a big ol’ FAIL.
More tellingly, Gates didn’t ask for Crowley’s name or badge number when Crowley walked out the door. Instead, he said “Yeah, I’ll speak to yo mama outside” (Harvard material!) and then came out to call him a racist and say you don’t know who I am and you haven’t seen the last of me. If he wanted the badge number or the spelling of the name, he could’ve gotten it then, but instead he chose to be belligerent. Which tells me he wasn’t interested in names and badges.
So if I understand you correctly, Gates is in the wrong for not asking the officer to identify himself after he followed the officer’s instructions to follow him outside if he had anything further to discuss; HOWEVER, asking for the officer to identify himself while still inside Gates’ residence does nothing to indicate that Gates was interested in names and badges. More importantly, it doesn’t matter when or where Gates “wanted the badge number or the spelling of the name.” Whenever he asked for it, the officer in question was LEGALLY REQUIRED to provide the information in as thorough and unambiguous a fashion as possible.
Now, the next time you skulk in here from the cesspool of idiocy in which you otherwise exist, please address the issue of why Crowley failed to properly identify himself as required by the law. You know, that thing he’s in charge of upholding.
He was leaving. What about that don’t you get? He said he was leaving, and IF Gates had questions, he could talk to him while he was leaving. If not, Crowley was gone. He wasn’t “sticking around” if Gates wouldn’t have felt the need to upbraid this cop in front of the people on the street.
Right. But again, according to you, Gates didn’t come out with any questions, did he? He came out with “tumultuous” belligerence. So, if Gates wasn’t asking any questions, and the officer said he was leaving, WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HIM CONTINUING TO ENGAGE GATES? Whether or not Gates felt the need to “upbraid” is irrelevant to the officer’s duty in the situation. If he had been reassured that Gates was indeed the legal resident, and that there was no threat as was originally believed, there was no need for him to stick around. So when Gates followed him out yelling and hollering about racism, Crowley should have just gotten in his car and DRIVEN THE FUCK AWAY. And then laughed about the crazy old man who was calling him a racist with his buddies at the precinct later on. Unless he felt physically threatened by Gates or that Gates was attempting to incite some kind of riot amongst the onlookers who had gathered. But that’s not in the report, now is it?
Bungled? How? By being called a racist by a guy who is going to call your Chief because you did your job? All Gates had to do was fork over the ID and understand that this cop was just carrying through with a complaint. Again, nothing in the report indicates that Crowley was the one stalling matters, so unless other facts come to light, I’m assuming that the guy who refuses to produce ID, then gets on the phone to find “the Chief,” then calls the cop a racist for doing his job is the guy who is lengthening the proceedings.
Again, by the officer’s own admission, he believed Gates was the legal resident before Gates even showed ID. And then there’s this:
With the Harvard University identification in hand, I radioed my findings to ECC on channel two and prepared to leave.
So now he has a valid ID to confirm his earlier belief that Gates was the legal resident. He’s called it in, and apparently, he’s finished his job on the scene. Again, I ask you, as long as Gates was not physically threatening the officer, what was the point of him continuing to engage Gates?
The guy who, instead of answering police questions, calls “the Chief,” says “you don’t know who you’re messing with” and “you haven’t heard the last from me” isn’t throwing around his power? He’s threatening the cop’s job with his connections, and he’s not powertripping? Please…
THEY’RE IDLE THREATS, YOU GODDAMN IDIOT. As stupid as it may be, people are legally allowed to challenge the authority of the police if they feel that they have overstepped their boundaries. And again, as long as he’s not inciting any kind of violence (especially against the officer), he’s not guilty of a crime. Besides, what power does Gates have? Seriously. Let me know the immense power he wields with these connections. But then again, you do seem to believe that this average citizen has more power than the person who WRITES THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT REGARDING THE FACTS OF THE CASE. Moreover, Gates’ “power” would take quite a while to exercise; Crowley just made that shit happen with the flick of some handcuffs.
“You don’t know who you’re messing with” is not power.
“You’re under arrest” is power.
Nothing in Crowley’s report indicates that, before or after the arrest, Crowley didn’t treat Gates with respect. So unless other facts come out, I think you’re full of shit here,
Point out where I said that Crowley disrespected Gates and then maybe you’ll just be a joke instead of an imbecile.
freelancer
@JMichael Neal
I’m rewatching it now. You’re right. This is a definite must see. I haven’t seen a movie that good, just in terms of a narrative story and a character study, probably since Redbelt last year. The way it’s shot is amazing, the music is subtle but it drives every important moment without clobbering you over the head (a la Transformers or Pirates of the Caribbean).
shoutingattherain
Oh those lovable police:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/ap_on_re_us/us_idaho_police_taser
Splitting Image
“As I stated on the other thread, straight from the police report (which is all we know as factual at this point),”
That is why you fail.
There is nothing “factual” about a policeman’s report. Ever.
It is merely his side of the story.
It may in fact be a more accurate description of what happened than Gates’, but you can’t prove that simply by calling the arresting officer an “honest cop”. Honest people are both wrong and unreasonable more often than they would care to admit.
J. Michael Neal
@freelancer: The other reason everyone needs to see this movie is so that we can discuss it without spoiling it. Though, I’m not sure how much it can be spoiled, since plot is almost incidental.
mcd410x
Meh. Everyone shares some blame in a situation like this. Right or wrong, if you don’t realize in 2009 that a police officer can do whatever he/she wants, well, it’s probably going to end badly. I’ve already forecast my demise by taser.
Frankly, I feel much like the title of this thread by Sully’s minions: Is this the instance of police misconduct to obsess about.
J. Michael Neal
@freelancer: Did you ever see Strange Days? Kathryn Bigelow directed that, too. A lot of people hate it, and it has its flaws, but I like it a lot. I’m a sucker for Ralph Fiennes when he works with a strong director who keeps him from getting out of control.
Comrade Kevin
@J. Michael Neal: I thought it was a pretty good movie. I never really got the huge negative reaction it got.
J. Michael Neal
@Comrade Kevin: I can watch Angela Basset pull that pistol out of her thigh holster over and over and over and . . .
Shaun
You see, if it happened on the coast and the homeowner was a black university prof, the white cop deserved to be shown appropriate respect. If it happened in Montana and the homeowner was a white militia member, the dead cop deserved what he got.
Get offa mah property!
freelancer
I did like the beginning Strange Days, but I always saw it on Cable and never quite was able to finish it. The first hour, it was way ahead in its cyberpunk sensibility than Hackers or Tron ever was.
I think Kathryn Bigalow has been really hit and miss with her films, but this one, I think, puts her up there in A-list territory. For me that means I’ll actually make efforts to see her next movie. But who knows when that’ll be.
And Ralph Fiennes, don’t get me started. His performance is so awesomely minimal in Constant Gardner.
J. Michael Neal
He was amazing in that. He, Rachel Weisz, and the cinematography were fantastic. The plot sucked. I’ve also loved him in Schindler’s List (okay, loved is probably the wrong word for Amon Goeth), The English Patient, and he was very good in Quiz Show. On the other hand, his performances in Wuthering Heights and The Avengers show what can happen when the director doesn’t keep him on a leash.
He and Liam Neeson are both in the remake of Clash of the Titans. I’m not sure what to make of that.
Comrade Kevin
@freelancer: I really would like to see someone produce a good movie based on something like Snow Crash, or William Gibson’s Neuromancer books, but I suspect that will never happen.
freelancer
Any movie that Fenando Mireilles (sp check) makes is going to LOOK gorgeous.
Funny you should say that, because even though I haven’t see Wuthering Heights nor the Avengers, I thought he was ridiculously over the top in Red Dragon. Tom Noonan playing the same role in Manhunter like 20 years earlier was way creepier.
I’ve arrived at the conclusion that in addition to the threads, I think BJ could use its own chatroom, also.
freelancer
Modded, was it BJ?
Perhaps, “manhunter”?
This is always an interesting arbitrary puzzle to solve.
EDIT: Holy fuck that sounds gay out of context. Just you wait and see.
freelancer
@Comrade Kevin
Yeah, thanks to you fellow juicers, I went out and bought Snow Crash just before father’s day. I haven’t started it yet. Still plodding my way through Under the Banner of Heaven. (them fundie Mormons be seriously demented, evil, anti-american, misogynistic fucks)
Comrade Kevin
@freelancer: Under the Banner of Heaven is a good one.
J. Michael Neal
I didn’t list that one, because I haven’t seen it, precisely because the previews made it look like that had happened. Glad to see it confirmed without having to waste two hours.
As for Manhunter, I’m a huge fan. I thought it was much, much better than Silence of the Lambs. I never understood the enthusiasm for Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter, since I thought Brian Cox was so much better in the role. Hopkins’ Lecter was ridiculous: a man that no one would ever think was sane. Cox’s take was believable.
J. Michael Neal
@freelancer: We’re going to have to part ways on Neal Stephenson. I thought Cryptonomicon was one of the most ridiculous, tedious, uninteresting books I’ve ever read. The friend who clued me in to The Hurt Locker independently read Snow Crash, and had the same reaction.
Comrade Kevin
@J. Michael Neal: I liked Cryptonomicon, but I gotta say I lost interest in his stuff with his “Baroque Cycle” books, or whatever they were called.
freelancer
I haven’t started Snow Crash yet, but one of the cooler aspects of my fav sci-fi series was the Datasphere/AI aspect of the Hyperion Novels by Dan Simmons. The Detective’s story had definite cyberpunk/film noir homages.
As far as the Hurt Locker, you mentioned a sparse plot. For me that is one of the huge strengths of the film. It’s very much a series of powerful separate vingettes, much like Full Metal Jacket, which together, is more than the sum of its parts
J. Michael Neal
@freelancer: I like some offbeat authors. Jon Courtenay Grimwood may be my favorite. I also really like the two books Chris Moriarty has written: Spin State and Spin Control.
freelancer
Oh, I completely forgot how interesting his character was in In Bruges, that movie went completely under the radar, considering how good it was.
J. Michael Neal
I haven’t seen that one.
freelancer
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780536/awards
definitely rent it.
J. Michael Neal
Has anyone seen Spider? Fiennes and David Cronenburg sounds like a match that could be great, and could be a complete disaster.
J. Michael Neal
@freelancer: Just put it into my Netflix queue.
Comrade Kevin
Am I committing a faux pas by admitting that I like the show “Entourage”? It’s stupid, silly stuff, but it’s entertaining.
J. Michael Neal
Not at all. I like Coldplay and Kim Harrison novels. We all have our dirty little secrets.
freelancer
I’m cuckoo for the Adult Swim cartoon The Venture Bros. We all have our guilty pleasures.
Das Internetkommissariat
@JK:
You forgot Queen Latifah and of course, live from the crypt!, Michael Jackson!!
wobbly
Ever since his son was left for dead on the side of a road, Bill Cosby has seemed to me to be a bit deranged.
As I would be, under similar circumstances.
Warren Terra
I just wanted to echo that pretty much everything about The Constant Gardener was fantastic except for the plot, which made no sense and achieved a striking combination of both being completely predictable in its twists and revelations and yet being just completely absurd once all was known (the big dark secret doesn’t actually make any sense, as even a moment’s serious consideration should have told the writers). That was a pity, because the acting, the scenery, and they way both were used were just great.
gil mann
Ever since his son was left for dead on the side of a road, Bill Cosby has seemed to me to be a bit deranged.
I worked a stand-up gig of his a few months after Ennis got killed. He was awesome, unsurprisingly, but yeah, you could tell he was shattered.
He did, like, an hour about how the bible is bullshit. Standard subject matter for a comedian but with him it was less “how silly” and more “I’m comin’ for you next, God.”
chopper
@kay:
the officer basically said “the acoustics of the kitchen and foyer were bad so i asked him to step outside” which is the lamest excuse for getting someone to a semi-public place to cuff em for discon i’ve ever heard. gates’s lawyers are gonna have a field day with that one.
kid bitzer
shaun @139-
bingo!
i have been trying to figure out what pisses me off so much about the winger hypocrisy on the gates issue, and this clarifies it perfectly.
ruby ridge, bitches!
Victory
My apologies if this has been touched upon as I just skimmed, but…..
How does the white rightwingnuts championing what a black man says(Cosby) about what another black man says (Obama) differ from them condemning it when a white woman does it?
Fat Albert
APhhrr ypwff sfffre yhh hpfffrwd hm reughgcht?