I realize that there may be some of you who think that are issues other than race that are important in American politics. You are wrong, all major arguments in American politics revolve around race and ethnicity to some degree. Tom Edsdall on health care:
The harsh reality is many voters consider the health care bill a multibillion-dollar transfer of taxpayer money to the uninsured, a population disproportionately, although by no means exclusively, made up of the poor, African Americans, Latinos, single parents, and the long-term unemployed. Providing medical care to this population is an explicit goal of the legislation, and a worthy goal, but political suicide in the current environment.
As everyone knows, the United States is undergoing a profound demographic transformation. Non-Hispanic whites are likely to become a minority by the year 2042. This shift underlies the theory of a Democratic realignment: Pro-Democratic groups are growing while the pro-Republican white population is declining.
Edsall goes on to claim that this is why Obama shouldn’t have pursued health care reform. This makes no sense to me, since the legislation is popular with demographic groups that are growing in influence and unpopular with those that are declining in influence, as he himself asserts.
Phaedrus
It’s important not to loose sight that many progressives dislike the bill on it’s merits.
Kryptik
Edsall seems to be likening the Republicans to cornered animals here.
I think it’s more like killer bees. Sure, they’ll sting the hell out of you and maybe kill you in the end, but it’s a suicide pact.
arguingwithsignposts
I guess this paragraph isn’t surprising coming from Even The Liberal New Republic(tm), but the way HCR is currently structured, it’s a multi-billion-dollar transfer of taxpayer money to the INSURANCE COMPANIES. And, last I checked, the majority of Americans FAVOR health care reform, including providing care to those icky brown people. Which is why he uses the squishy, non-descriptive “many” (akin to its close cousin “some” in terms of specificity) in phrasing the first statement.
That is some high-dollar concern-trolling there.
Stroszek
Yes, the bill primarily benefits the [actual] base. No news there, and this is the best case for passing the damn thing. If the Dems can’t deliver for these demographics, they will be decimated in 2010.
BTD
This assumes that Medicaid expansion is unpopular, and that Medicaid expansion does not benefit the white working class.
Both assumptions are faulty.
Here is a simple question – do you think the House bill or the Senate bill is more popular? If you think the House bill is, why do you think that is? Which do you think is more popular -the Senate’s excise tax or the House’s tax on the wealthy?
Race is always an issue. But not so much this time imo.
Col. Klink
On that note, do you remember that 80’s movie A League of their Own? Because nothing spells quality sports like a white’s only, natural born citizens basketball league.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2010/01/19/nba_563760.shtml
DougJ
Race is always an issue.
I think the reason a lot of white people are against it is that they think it’s all going to black people.
Young bucks buying T-bones with their subsidized insurance.
Napoleon
Edsdall is an idiot and is emblematic of everything wrong with Villagers.
Shorter Edsdall “if you are a Democrat shit on the people who elected you and suck up to those who didn’t once you are in office”
Stroszek
@arguingwithsignposts: The way the regulations are structured, the vast majority of money (at least 85% to be exact) is going into the pockets of service providers in exchange for services.
BTD
@DougJ:
Define “a lot?” In a sense, those “a lot” are the same people who would be opposing it anyway – they are called Republicans.
For “a lot” of Republicans, race is an issue here. but they never will support a Dem initiative anyway.
For some non-trivial number of Democrats, race is also an issue here. But that is not the political problem in this bill. The excise tax is perceived as an attack on the middle class and a threat to people’s existing health insurance.
It really is a political poison pill.
lol
@arguingwithsignposts:
Sinec we’re not going to go single-payer (which simply does. not. have. the. votes. period), then any plan to insure the uninsured is naturally going to result in a lot of money going to health insurance companies. That’s what happens when you insure tens of millions of people who weren’t before.
I really don’t get the criticism. Do you have some novel way of insuring everyone that results in insurance companies not benefiting at all? Or are you imagining they would do it somehow for free?
Brascal
This argument won’t stand for long. As some hispanic voters climb the social ladder, they too will start being swayed by the GOP chant of ‘you don’t have to be dragged down by the deadbeats’, even if they themselves got dragged up not too long ago.
Just like the middle-class whites bit back at the New Deal in the 60s after being fed by it for 20 years, the rising latino middle-class will happily sell its lower strata out. It’s the nature of the beast. Upper-class hispanic (meaning the lighter-colored ones) can pass for white in most social dealings, allowing easy inter-marriage and incorporation into the power structure.
There’s a reason irish-americans overcame prejudice so much faster and without as much attrition as blacks; you can’t spot one down the street. If your white buddy has a child with an irish lass, it’s not immediately apparent, and he needs only favor his middle name instead of his last one and no one would know without asking to check his family tree.
arguingwithsignposts
@DougJ:
I think you’re right, which is also a sort of disconnect, because I’d wager that a sizable amount of the impact will be felt by poor and working class whites, especially in rural areas.
The problem for the U.S. is that a lot of white poverty is hidden out in the sticks (as in W.V.), whereas teh brown poor are all over the TV with their hip-hop and drugs and gang violence. White middle class/upper class folks don’t get that their next door neighbor in the suburban white-flight subdivision may be the person who’s on food stamps, unemployment and COBRA with a pre-existing condition.
As a side note, I once worked as a “community activities director” in a section-8 apartment complex in Texas. The residence population was probably 50 percent white, 40 percent black and 10 percent hispanic. Poverty knows no racial boundaries.
(forgive my rant)
Jim
I have a friend whose entire political worldview is predicated on the notion that the government takes his money and gives it to the Undeserving. This guy probably makes less than 100K/yr. Social Security makes up a significant portion of his parents’ income, they’re both on Medicare (+ supplemental); he has a handicapped adult sibling who is almost completely dependent on Medicaid; two others work for the public schools, teacher and administrator; two kids in public school, to say nothing of driving on public roads, drinking water, etc etc etc. He also said, in 2003, “I guess I’m for the war”.
kay
I’m so glad someone finally said it.
This bill was never, ever going to “hurt the poor” or even the lower middle class and that needs to be said.
The objections to the bill evolved, from ” hurt the poor” to ” hurt the middle class” which came to mean “people with a family health insurance policy valued at more than 26k” .
kay
@Stroszek:
It’s not even that. The bill primarily benefits those without health insurance.
94% of college educated white people have health insurance.
arguingwithsignposts
@lol:
My comment was that Edsall is being simplistic in his thought. Even if we take the stance that 85 percent of the money that goes to insurance companies will eventually flow through to actual health care, that money isn’t going to be going to the customers. It’s going to the providers. It’s not like this is a welfare check.
Novel? Not really. Doing away with health insurance and going to single payer would be the preferred method, but I’m realistic in that single payer won’t happen in my lifetime.
A public option, or national exchange, would be preferred, especially if you’re going to have a mandate. But we’ve all been down this road before.
No, my problem was with Edsall’s statements above. It’s not “political suicide” to attempt HCR if it’s done right. It may be political suicide if it comes out as a big sh*t sandwich for “average” folks. I tend to think jobs will be more crucial in the 2012 election. If unemployment goes down below, say, 8 percent or so, Obama will serve a second term.
kay
Democrats and Obama knew this, by the way.
It’s why they keep saying “you can keep your current policy”.
They weren’t talking to the people who would benefit from an expansion of Medicaid. They were hoping to placate the people who don’t.
Shygetz
I disagree with Doug’s central premise. Race is a fading concern (note I said fading, not faded). Nowadays, it’s all about class.
Stroszek
@Brascal: Whoa, you think people are actually going to be climbing into the middle class? I wish I had your optimism.
@kay: Am I the only progressive who wouldn’t mind my insurer being taxed at the margins of my worth-the-annual-income-of-two-wage-slaves insurance plan? Weren’t we all opposed to the Bush and Reagan tax cuts? I get that the unions are advocacy groups looking out for the bare self-interest of their members. That’s fine. I disagree with them, but they’re not charity groups and should do what they’re getting paid to do. But why all the progressives acting like Andy Stern is a faultless champion for anyone other than those who pay his salary?
arguingwithsignposts
@Shygetz:
Wait until the dems try immigration reform and come back to me with that theory.
kay
@Shygetz:
True. Around here, lots and lots of people are on Medicaid, and lots and lots of people would benefit from an expansion in that program. None of them are black people.
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
It’s only tangentially about race. Race we can talk about all day in this country, but it’s a proxy for a discussion of a cultural reality that you can’t talk about in this country, and that’s class.
Brick Oven Bill
“I fear that reparations would be an excuse for some to say we’ve paid our debt and then avoid the much harder work.”
-Barack Obama, 2004
kay
@Stroszek:
I’ve been around and around on the excise tax.
I would just simply say this: you cannot make a credible argument that this bill is bad for the poor or the lower middle class.
In fact, when that argument failed, opponents went to ” bad for the middle class” and by that they meant “people subject to the excise tax”.
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
And B.O.B. is exhibit one for people who believe hcr=reparations.
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
And slightly OT, but welcome to the Corporate States of America.
That is all.
arguingwithsignposts
@Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion:
Really? all I see is B.O.B. talking about pie. Protip: Cleek’s pie filter: built for just this.
Corner Stone
@Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion: This just lets them bring it out in the open a little easier. Won’t change anything as the politicians were already captured.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Declining does not mean gone. It might be better in the long run, but you still have to deal with the people now.
Also, don’t let these people change the subject. It’s about insuring the uninsured, which includes a lot of whites.
valdemar
A lot of wealthier and/or loonier wingnuts seem to resemble old-style white South Africans – vehemently racist while totally dependent on non-whites to keep their businesses ticking over, care for their kids, mow their lawns etcetera. Or, put simply:
‘I’d rather be murdered in my bed than have to make it myself.’
valdivia
wait wasn’t Edsall yelling about Obama not being aggressive and progressive enough just a short couple of weeks ago when the reform bill was being passed in the Senate?
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts:
Could you expand this a little please? I’m unsure if you believe “race isn’t a fading problem” or if you feel it is not an issue with class.
scudbucket
I think the reason a lot of white people are against it is that they think it’s all going to black people.
But it’s doubtful that this is the primary criticism from those who oppose it. Progressives don’t like it because it doesn’t go far enough. Likewise, lots of GOP voters were initially in favor of a plan that included a public option or medicare buy-in. For example,
Granted, this type of reform wasn’t on the table, but it shows that even conservative voters support government health care.
Brick Oven Bill
The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education teaches us that:
“…median black family income in the United States is about 60 percent of the median family income of whites…”
What is not discussed is the percentage of the different demographic groups that actually work. Only one in around two-point-five Americans works. I have not been able to find these percentages.
Therefore, any socialistic policy is, by definition, racist.
kay
@valdemar:
It’s a little silly, because there are a lot of poor white people, and they seem to avail themselves of public assistance.
It’s like the public schools argument. A lot of inner city public schools suck, but so do a lot of rural public schools. Rural public schools in poor areas don’t have metal detectors, but they have loads of drug use and teen pregnancy and every other imaginable ill, including lousy graduation rates, and laughable curriculum.
Weirdly, you never hear public school critics talk about this: the huge education crisis among rural white people.
arguingwithsignposts
@Corner Stone:
I believe race isn’t a fading problem. And immigration reform will bring it to the forefront. Sure, there’s a class issue involved, but the chant will be “those ferners are taking our jobs!”
Look at the teabagger uprising. You think that wasn’t about race? How many darker skinned people attended those rallies? But how many people on social security or lower/middle class gun nuts and glibertarian and family values types showed up?
The only purely class-related issue that I’ve seen come up over the last year is financial reform/regulation.
ETA: Also, think about the English-only idea (which will inevitably come up in the immigration reform debate). If that isn’t purely race-related, I don’t know what is.
Brian J
So it’s only people who aren’t white who can be single mothers and suffer from long-term unemployment? My guess is, there are plenty of single white mothers and unemployed manufacturing workers in the Midwest who would disagree with that statement.
Part of me wants to shout back at him, “Just who the hell is supposed to be receiving the subsidies for coverage? People with health insurance?” It’s almost as if he’s claiming that people are angry that food stamps are going to people who don’t have enough to eat.
Betsy
You forget that in the minds of many, many people, those voters don’t count. I remember right before or right after the election, and someone or other was pointing out that Obama wasn’t REALLY that popular, once you take away all the black people who voted for him. WTF?!
Brian J
@Betsy:
I knew someone who more or less that argument around the time he won. I am not sure if he meant it like that or if he was simply meant something else.
Malron
Haha. So true, though those same non-Hispanic whites will now be flaming you relentlessly for bringing race into the conversation.
There’s also the “I got mine, get yours some other way” rhetoric hidden in the “I’m happy with my health care just the way it is” rhetoric from the olds. That’s what’s so irritating about the Brown victory: they are thrilled with their own health care but they refuse to let the rest of the country have the same thing.
And then there’s the problem of liberal elites caring more about winning ideological battles than they do about helping those 30 million Americans they keep throwing about in their discussions. Is pretty disingenuous to say that 45,000 Americans die from lack of health care every year and then promote ideas of killing the bill because things didn’t go your way.
I’m kinda encouraged by the Post-MA rumblings out of the House today. Seems Pelosi is starting to signal that they might be willing to pass the senate bill as-is and fix it through reconciliation later. But then, you should know by now how loaded a word like “signal” is…
Shygetz
@arguingwithsignposts: You honestly think the teabag episode was an uprising? It wasn’t…unless your threshold for “uprising” is pathetically low. It seemed a lot bigger than it was because of how it was organized and advertised by the corporate media…and I’ll bet you that the corporate media didn’t amplify the “movement” out of a deep-seated racism. Similarly, all of the big money efforts you see to push the social reactionary agenda is only there because they have allied with the big corp agenda…and again, I bet the big corp agenda doesn’t give two shakes about race. Racism is a tool, and a rapidly fading tool, in the one-sided class warfare that is the hallmark of modern American politics.
Elie
@arguingwithsignposts:
..and he is only partially right. While proposed coverage would provide a benefit to the poor unwashed, so to speak, the money for this goes to providers of care and the insurance companies… in other words, the transfer of dough is to them, not to the little brown people
DougJ
But it’s doubtful that this is the primary criticism from those who oppose it.
I don’t think it is doubtful.
Malron
@scudbucket:
You are not really refuting the point, because they feel it doesn’t go far enough to benefit them personally. They aren’t thinking in terms of how in spite of all its warts it will help keep 45,000 Americans alive or provide access to 30 million Americans who can’t get health care at present. Those so-called progressives only care about themselves. I find any type of progressive ideology that’s driven by shameless self-interest a pretty shitty form of progressivism.
jcricket
I’m not sure I agree 100% with the article, but I do think that working class whites are often (but not always) susceptible to Republican framing of issues, incl. on things like welfare and healthcare reform (or just Medicaid expansion) that would benefit them.
You can see this when they embrace Joe the Plumber in the mistaken belief that a tax on income over $250k will affect them (maybe b/c their business has more than $250k in gross receipts). Or that they embrace it b/c they really believe tax cuts increase revenue and tax increases “stifle” businesses (another Republican line). Top it off with the belief that every government failure (even if it’s due to said lack of revenue) is more proof the government can’t be trusted – so Republicans were right all along.
Top it off with plain old racism, and I’m not surprised that in the near term we’re going to have a lot of clashes like we’re having now. When there are enough of “them”, you’ll see more states like CA. Still plenty of racist rich white people, but not enough to form any kind of state-wide majority on a regular basis. When this happens to Texas (2016 is what I’ve heard as a early prediction) national politics will be a lot different.
Of course it doesn’t have to be this way. Republicans don’t have to be homophobic, racist & xenophobic. They could be plain old libertarian/small government. But the “grand bargain” they made with their base has wedged them into a pretty tight corner. This prevents all the growing demographics from wanting to sign onto the Republican agenda, even if they too might be susceptible to the “low taxes + high services = Nirvana” message.
arguingwithsignposts
@Shygetz:
“uprising” is a term of art, I could have just as easily called it “protests” or whatever. Lumping together the glenn beck “9/12” b.s., the “keep your hands off our healthcare” groups and the gun nuts, family values, anti-socalism groups for convenience sake.
You think racism is a tool of the rich. That’s a fair theory, but I grew up in a town with forced busing. As recently as five years ago, I lived a couple of miles from a confederate memorabilia store that grew by leaps and bounds in the five years I lived there. I don’t even have to go back that far. There are plenty of examples of racism from the ’08 campaign, and since Obama’s inauguration.
Racism (and sexism and homophobia) are alive and well and deeply-seated in certain parts of our culture. To think a) that it’s just a tool of the corporate elite and b) it’s rapidly fading is delusional.
BTW, I would add that there are elements within big corporate agenda who are racist in their thinking. Ask them if they’d be okay with their daughter marrying a brown person and see how far that gets you.
Corner Stone
@arguingwithsignposts:
IMO, race is a fading issue to society as a whole. Slowly fading, but becoming lower down the priority scale for each new generation.
But what I will agree with is that race is becoming a more focused issue for a subset, as you say about the types of people attending the TP rallies.
Immigration reform is going to be the kind of fun immolation of the R party I think we can all get behind.
ETA – Oh, and lest I forget – “They tooker jerbs!”
jcricket
Yeah, but they don’t want to pay for it, and don’t understand the regulations that have to go along with it to make the whole system work (i.e. individual mandate is required if you eliminate pre-existing conditions clauses or healthy people would just wait until they were sick to sign up, which would cause premiums for everyone else to skyrocket, etc.).
Yes, Democrats do a terrible job of explaining this. Frankly, I wish we’d stop explaining it. Just pick the key part of HCR and hammer that home, and say the rest of it’s just part of the bill. Republicans do this all the time to get what they want (they’ll even put totally unrelated things in but hammer Democrats for opposing the thrust of the overall bill).
How many Republicans do you really think like Medicare Part D? But they understood it was a giveaway to seniors to get some votes, so they mostly went along with it. Unfortunately, I fully expect Lieberman, Nelson and Landreiu to oppose anything as simple and popular as a Medicaid and Medicaire expansion, even if not-funded by those horrible, horrible, economy-killing tax increases on the ultra-rich.
Corner Stone
@DougJ:
You’re considering the whole spectrum of opposition, not just self-identified Democrats/lefties?
To be clear – you’re saying given the USA as a whole, the majority of people who oppose the bill oppose it because of the race related angle?
Not to speak for scudbucket but I thought the statement was regarding a subset, not the whole universe.
Mnemosyne
@Shygetz:
In this country, that’s a false dichotomy. African-Americans are always lower-class no matter what they achieve. That’s why my mother complains about those “trashy” Obamas being in the White House: even two Ivy-League-educated lawyers are still members of the underclass because of the color of their skin.
White people get an automatic pass as middle-class unless they demonstrate otherwise, as do Asian-Americans. Latinos are still somewhere in the middle, but I agree that they are going to be promoted to middle-class sooner rather than later. But African-Americans are always, always at the bottom of the class system no matter what their education or income is.
So, yes, it’s about class, but you cannot talk about class in this country without pointing out that our social classes are also determined by race.
scudbucket
@DougJ: I don’t think it is doubtful.
Hmmm. That’s a very compelling, thoughtful, well reasoned response. And persuasive. How could I have not seen it!?
Batocchio
Race is often important in America, and I agree it is here. However, class and power are often even more important and less remarked on, although race, gender, etc. often correspond with those dynamics. Many Americans don’t like to think we have a class system or a ruling class. Hey, it worked for Nixon, Reagan and both Bushs – race bait the Reagan Democrats and Deer Hunters for Jesus, and let spite win the day for the richest and most powerful, who are fighting like hell to get even more, get it all.