I fell asleep listening to the Pod Save America podcast last week, and Sticher (being not helpful) started playing all the as-yet-unplayed Crooked Media podcasts, so I woke up in the night to an episode of The Wilderness. I woke up to some guy (who I now know is data expert Dan Wagner) talking about how Democratic messaging should be about FREEDOM and SAFETY.
The Wilderness: Chapter 3: Disconnected Democrats in Pittsburgh
How can Democrats reach disconnected voters? We talk to Biden voters in Pittsburgh who are fed up with national politics. Jon breaks down their responses with Pennsylvania Representative Malcolm Kenyatta, data expert Dan Wagner, and John Fetterman senior campaign strategist Rebecca Katz.
The lead-in and context for the comments I want to share begins at the 33-minute mark. The woman’s voice is Fetterman’s campaign strategist, and the first male voice is PA Rep. Malcom Kenyatta.
You can listen here without downloading.
At 34:21 Jon Favreau says: “Dan, what do you think?” And that’s when it gets interesting. Dan Wagner’s response is profound.
Dan Wagner
I think there’s a few troubling patterns when you see it in the data. One is that communication on process, as opposed to consequences, never works. And number two, is a lot of the language – and by language I mean the actual words that we use to talk about things – have calcified in people’s minds so much that they are no longer effective in how you talk about them.
In the case of Roe, or guns, etc, a lot of what we found is that talking with words like Supreme Court or judges or whatever – either people, they ignore it, or rather, in a testing environment, has no effect. What does have an effect?
What always has an effect is speaking to the consequences of a policy or the consequences of a candidate.
So what does that mean in the case of Roe? What that means in the case of Roe is that a woman who is sexually assaulted has a very real possibility of being incarcerated for up to 2 years in the state of South Carolina.
But making it very real, that it’s not about SCOTUS, it’s not about this, it’s not about that… What is very real is that women are no longer free. And freedom is a very powerful word in the United States.
And this is no longer about choice. Roe is about freedom.
In the case of guns, guns are no longer about guns; guns are about the safety of our children.
And unfortunately a lot of Democrats are of the age where they no longer have to experience the anxiety of being a parent today, which is kind of a sad thing, right?
The people on this call, like we know the anxiety of that situation, given our age.
The challenge of that session is it seems like it’s a lot of process and they’re not talking about the consequences on what these decision mean for American freedom – using that word explicitly – and American safety, and the safety of our children … to grow up in a society where they are safe and free.
And there’s a different sort of words that we should start using in a world where a woman can be incarcerated for treating her own body, and world where a kid going to Highland Park, can be murdered in front of their parents.
Freedom. Safety. These are words that Karl Rove would have used in the 1990s. These are now words that Democrats should be owning because they are core to our own culture and they are core to what Americans are thinking about every day, especially parents who are very, very scared.
(starts at 34:21 and ends at 36:58)
That’s it in a nutshell. Our way forward, explained in 2.5 minutes.
Open thread.
Chief Oshkosh
MC
I deactivated my twitter account. Gone for good, now. Lots of reasons, but tfg being “reinstated” was the big one.
Wag
Impossible to argue with that. As a lifelong Democrat, I have been continually frustrated by the Democratic Party’s, insistence on using cerebral arguments, and then losing said arguments to the Republicans appeal to emotion. We need to seize back the communication. A significant part of that is recognizing that, communication is a mixture of facts and emotion.
There is no doubt that President Obama was a master at communicating facts. Unfortunately, his reputation of being Spock-like limited the reach of his arguments. His mastery of communication allowed his cerebral arguments to reach a larger group of voters than would be typical for that type of communication, however it was still limited. Contrast that with President Biden. Joe is a master of every day communication and making his message palatable to everyone. In the end, the future of communications from the Democratic Party needs to come from the heart, first, closely followed by the brain.
Lobo
Freedom(as described in this post. It also incorporates safety)
Faiths(all faiths)
Family(all families)
Our broad definition versus their small one.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@MC:
My last twitter incarnation got suspended because I engaged in sharp, non-suspendable commentary at New York douchebag Lee Zeldin sometime around the third week of October. I assume that it was deemed “bullying”, based on the short statement given. I did the appeal thing, but the suspension stuck.
I note that the account is still suspended. Also of note, my feed is full of right-wing douchebaggery now, with only a few of the accounts I used to follow coming in
ETA – looks like the end of September. I am guessing it was something of a bot flog of the report button.
cain
@MC:
Come join us on Mastodon. :) The conversations are so much better and having 500 words gives you the ability to express yourselves so much better. It’s such a relief to look at threads and people having conversations instead of right wing trolls just spitting out hate.
They will come, and we will need to kick them out of our spaces. Kind of a parallel – they are coming for women and their rights and BiPOC and LBGTQ+ rights, and we better be on guard and kick them out.
Math Guy
Believe me, it is easy to get locked into the idea that if only you could lay out the facts, make your reasoning more transparent and understandable, then things might get better. Even when you know – at an intellectual level – that that doesn’t work, it is hard to let go of that way of dealing with and engaging with people.
cain
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
The migration is real! Even the folks who expressed not wanting to go to Mastodon are moving there – when about 15-20% of your friends have moved there – you’re moving there. :-)
dww44
Thanks for sharing this. I am largely a faithful MSNBC watcher and generally love their evening hosts….all of them. But during the height of the campaign season, I honestly would switch channels when Steve Kornacki came on with his charts and “who’s up/who’s down” scenarios.” Which also meant that mostly I switched channels anyways because that’s how everything was talked about between Labor Day and November 8.
I have always disliked that election season is covered as a process event rather than a truly substantive one. And that’s because we have a for profit media (and even the not for profit one is scared to death of its extremely wealthy GOP leaning donor base) that even if it sees the forest for the trees, it still talks largely about the trees as they are more profitable and less controversial for the owners of media.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
There’s been a lot of doom and gloom about how Garland naming a special prosecutor is the end of all Trump-related justice.
Not so, according to these guys. I’m hearing similar things elsewhere. Trump declaring his candidacy doesn’t immunize him. But it sets up the appearance of a conflict of interest since Trump is campaigning against Garland’s boss. A special prosecutor, according to Popok, is required by law here.
And it doesn’t mean the investigation is restarting. The special prosecutor begins with all that testimony and evidence already collected.
Also I’ve seen other legal commentary that this particular prosecutor is one more signal that indictments are coming.
Watch the video, it might give you hope.
Starfish
@MC: Congratulations. Are you going to devote that time and space to other things, or did you choose a platform to move to yet?
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@cain: I never twootered and never will, but I’m Mastadon-curious.
One impediment for me to social media is that I hate thinking of nyms. This nym is a “temporary” created when WP decided it didn’t like my old one and shadowbanned me.
dww44
@Wag:
Thanks for this. Agree with every single word.
Another Scott
Yup.
If freedom means anything, it means being able to live one’s life without fear and without being intimidated by random nutjobs. It means freedom to be left alone.
“Mind your own business” is something that every child understands. The SCOTUS and the RWNJ legislators should as well.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@dww44: I appreciate your thank you! It took a ridiculously long time for me to transcribe that 2.5 minutes, but I thought it was worth it.
OGLiberal
My middle-aged wife – we have two teens – has been saying for months that with people running around with guns and not taking common sense simple precautions like wearing a mask (our son is immunocompromised and us getting COVID from a careless, selfish neighbor was very much not “just a cold”) and being out front and proud with their hate (our daughter is both Asian and non-binary) and with elected Republicans talking about ignoring elections if they don’t like the results, she doesn’t feel free at all…so much so that she wants us to leave the country. So, yeah.
A Man for All Seaonings (formerly Geeno)
Only Republicans can make purely emotional appeals with being challenged. For Democrats, it’s always “you’re being hysterical” “show us examples! no, not those examples other ones”
EarthWindFire
The young voters who just voted overwhelmingly Democratic know this intuitively. Congressman-elect Maxwell Frost first became politically active around guns. Hoocoodanode that the active shooter drill generation didn’t want thoughts, prayers, and a lecture on what a true automatic weapon is? They sure did. We should ask them what we should be saying.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Were you able to catch Imm’s comment, that I front paged in the hopes that more people will see it? He makes a very good case for this being a smart move. Check out the whole post, if you haven’t already.
I haven’t watched your YouTube video yet, hopefully I will have time later today.
In the meantime, though, I have plenty of hope that the Special Counsel was the right move.
Peke Daddy
Democratic message: Safety, freedom, groceries.
Nora
Honestly, the safety argument should be a no-brainer. Do you feel safe going to church? Going to the supermarket? Do you feel safe sending your child to school? Any lunatic can bring guns to these places and start shooting, and the Republicans are a-okay with that. We’re not. No feeling human being is okay with that.
How can you lose that argument? How can you appeal to that deep fear and not hit a chord?
Frankensteinbeck
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Yep. Or even slowing down. This is absolutely crucial to me. The process hasn’t changed. A new boss has been put in charge, and one known for his aggressiveness at that. But Garland keeps his hands clean.
Again, ‘special prosecutor’ sounds like adding a delay to the system, maybe even starting over. That’s what made everyone furious. But it’s not the case, thank goodness.
WaterGirl
@Peke Daddy:
I like that. Add security and I’m in. :-)
Lady WereBear
@MC: I hear dead ones can be re-activated if a certain procedure isn’t followed and then Zombie You causes trouble for Real You.
So I left mine up, paused my schedule, and will be ignoring it.
Baud
To be fair, abortion only became real to a lot of people last summer. A lot of the things we fight for, like climate change, also have only become real to people in recent years.
The Republican threat to unions, for example, still isn’t real for a lot of union workers, much less the general public.
That said, I generally agree that our messaging is often too abstract.
WaterGirl
@Nora: It’s not just “do you feel safe?” Or any of those other questions. That’s the same problem we have with “do you think the country is going in the right direction?’ That’s not just about the president. I can think Biden is doing a bang-up job, but I can think we’re going in the wrong direction because of the violence and autocracy from the right.
There’s the second part that brings the message home: Who do you think is going to do something about it? Who is already trying to do something about it, and who is already limiting your freedom, your safety, your security?
Lady WereBear
It’s like declaring dinner hour open to all comers and people coming in your house and eating your sammich.
Nora
@WaterGirl:
Good point. I think the “do you feel safe” is the bottom line, the emotion you’re trying to reach, but obviously the next part is, “who’s going to do anything to change that? Who’s going to make things safer?” and that’s where the Democrats come in.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@WaterGirl: Thanks for that, I’ll read it in full.
The YouTube is from the Meidas Touch channel. I’ve been watching a lot of legal commentary on that channel and they give me a lot of hope.
Lady WereBear
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I have a link for you, my guide so Way of Cats followers can join up and, if they want, join me.
https://mailchi.mp/wayofcats/way-of-cats-goes-mastodon
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Nora:
I’m supposed to go to the “Light Up Louisville” thing this Friday night (we’ve never been, but the weather is supposed to be somewhat decent and not miserable), and the first thought I had was “Will it be safe? Should I carry a pistol in a coat pocket in case things go pear shaped? Do I really want to go?”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Since I use social media to let people know when I have a new book, I just use my real name.
I’m on mastodon finally, though I haven’t done anything
different-church-lady
I think it really helps here that the actual stakes are no longer cerebral or theoretical — your child actually could be shot. Your body actually has been taken from your own control.
Lady WereBear
@WaterGirl: Would freetranscriptions.com have helped? I’ve had good luck with them for transcripts with my podcasts.
WaterGirl
@Nora: Yep. Without the second part, we let the people – the ones who aren’t very engaged – just assume it’s the president’s fault, or the fault of the party that is in power.
But if it’s a two-pronged approach, and we ask them to think about who will work to fix the problem then maybe we can get somewhere.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: What is the deal with different Mastodon servers and how do you choose one? And does it matter
kindness
I have my doubts about any potential Democratic voters being ‘calcified’ with regards to discussing Roe v Wade & this Supreme Court. I mean I guess there are some souls out there lost in a fog but it’s a fog of their own making. I mean I have no problems with attracting the undecided with more than one train of thought so by all means do that too. I just think the market for that segment of potential voters is exceedingly small.
Alce_e_ardillo
I have always thought that this was the key to reaching the great number of apolitical people in our country. Abortion is not about abortion, it’s about your granddaughter, or grandson and his wife, not being free to live where they want, because of the risk of dealing with an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. It’s about avoiding towns that are not LGBTQ friendly, about sleeping with one eye op, en because of fear of attack, about not wearing your favorite outfit because it made you look “gay” or inviting a rapist. This lack of freedom is corrosive, damages everyone, because it makes every one afraid to say or do anything but the most anodyne or trivial thing, a life of eternal small talk.
MC
@Starfish: I have a tumblr and instagram, but I’m not especially enthusiastic about either. I hope I can deprogram myself from social media addiction. There are books to be read, for one thing.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I haven’t signed up yet, but I read you can switch servers (or instances) once a month of you don’t like the one you’re on. I’m not sure if switching changes you @ address, or if your followers automatically get the new address.
Sister Golden Bear
Speaking of freedoms….
Once I had a friend visiting from rural Ohio, and one of the things she marveled at were people smoking outside the gay bar in SF we were visiting — because at gay bar in her hometown one didn‘t dare do so, for risk of being shot at.
Sister Golden Bear
@MC: FWIW, if you deactivate your account and it gets deleted, then someone else can swipe it and pose as your.
So it’s better to sign out, then sign in and reactivate the account. Doing so should clear all your followers/following, and if they’re any tweets remain you can mass delete them. Then just leave it active, but dormant.
Betty Cracker
To my endless irritation, DeSantis calls this the “free state of Florida” because you’re free to visit a cancer treatment center and breathe COVID germs all over the patients.
But school districts have cancelled book fairs, teachers have boxed up books students used to be able to borrow, and administrators are peeling rainbow “safe space” stickers off doors for fear of running afoul of the “don’t say gay” law. How is that freedom?
Businesses are cancelling diversity training for fear that some right-wing crank will claim it made them feel bad about being white. How is that freedom?
Queer people are leaving the state because they don’t want to be persecuted by this hostile government. How is that freedom?
Reproductive rights are next on the chopping block. DeSantis refused to say if he’d impose further restrictions during the runup to the election, but the wingnut supermajority statehouse will almost surely deliver a draconian bill, and he will sign it to bolster his upcoming bid for the presidency. How is that freedom?
Yeah, it’s way past time for liberals to take that word back. These authoritarian shitheads are against freedom for everyone but themselves.
Cacti
Yes, Garland dithering for 2 years and then punting was a real stroke of genius. He’s been hell on the J6 peons though.
WaterGirl
@Lady WereBear: Hmm, I had never heard of that. But I only wanted 2.5 minutes, not the whole hour or more. Have you used that for just a portion of something?
WaterGirl
@kindness: To me, it seemed that his point is that in order to move people, for them to not tune us out, we should’t talk about it in terms of the corrupt Supreme Court (which is it!) or judges who are doing this or that.
I can totally see people tuning that out.
The point was that we should talk in terms of the consequences to real people, the consequences to us, skipping the words that work for us but that a lot of people will tune out.
West of the Rockies
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Maybe go with your middle name, especially if it is common.
On the late Dispatches from the Culture Wars, there was a prolific commenter who used his name, first and last, and said he just wrote thoughtfully so as to avoid embarrassing himself. I admired that.
UncleEbeneezer
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Joyce White Vance also made a lot of these same points in her newsletter.
TLDR- This isn’t Mueller 2.0. There are key differences like scope/contsraints, who is AG, who is President etc. This isn’t Garland trying to pass the buck, he is still ultimate authority and would need to explain to Congress his decisions. This won’t be starting from scratch, there is already a large case and attorneys with knowledge that can get Smith up to speed quickly. This is unlikely to be an effort to slow-roll or quietly-kill the investigations. Hague lawyers and SDNY attorneys wouldn’t join this effort if there wasn’t high likelihood of charges. In her professional opinion as a former US Attorney, this decision seems like a signal that indictments are very, very likely.
Kay
@Alce_e_ardillo:
One of the things that came out during the various state-level abortion related initiatives campaigns is that women are always afraid of an unplanned pregnancy – women in committed relationships, women who use birth control, doesn’t matter-if they are capable of becoming pregnant they are afraid of an unplanned pregnancy because pregnancy and having a child is so profound and life changing.
Anti-abortion people completely misunderstood this (because so may of them dislike and don’t respect women- they always assume the worst about us). Support for abortion was never cavalier- “oh, I’ll just get an abortion -easy!” It was the opposite. The more profound and life changing women think pregnancy is the more they support abortion, as a kind of “break glass” fail safe.
It’s the ANTI abortion side who are cavalier about pregnancy and raising children- you see it in Barrett’s ludicrous argument that women can just drop off an unplanned child at the fire station. WTF? This is her legal argument?
rikyrah
Women had freedom
Now, freedom depends upon what state you live in.
It’s trauma porn, but, Democrats need to point out – repeatedly – of the instances where things ‘ went wrong’ for pregnant women from FREE STATES who traveled to NOT FREE STATES and all went wrong.
I don’t think that we should ever stop pointing that out. We should never stop amplifying that.
MisterForkbeard
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: I’ve noticed the same thing re: rightwing douchebaggery. The platform seems to be emphasizing a huge amount of pro-Musk, anti-Dem, pro-Republican information. Fox News in particular keeps showing up in my feed directly, even though every time it appears I tell it to show less.
But all the rightwing news sources are like that – they keep appearing and I can’t get twitter to get rid of them. Same for major republican politicians.
One more reason to get off of twitter.
delphinium
Agree that we need to change how we present things to voters. Particularly in purple and red states, would like to see year-round messaging that lets voters know how exactly a bill will impact them directly; not just during election season when everyone starts to tune out messaging. For instance, Jon Tester could do an ad stating he voted for the infrastructure bill, and then mention 2 or 3 things specific to Montana (eg: added alternative energy sources which lowers household bills and decreases our dependence on foreign oil, or provided broadband to x number of counties/communities so people can stay in touch with families or have access to tele-medicine). I think this would help remind people who is actually implementing policies and how those policies improve their lives which may lessen feelings of insecurity and fear.
UncleEbeneezer
@Frankensteinbeck:
THIS: In Mueller’s case, he was hired just eight days after Trump fired his FBI Director, Jim Comey, after asking for his loyalty and being rejected. Mueller had to start a new investigation and hire prosecutors and agents while opening his office. Smith inherits investigations that have been ongoing for at least a year, with a dedicated team of prosecutors and agents he can shift over. And he will be able to call on the advice of respected professionals in DOJ’s National Security Division, who, while not permitted to make day-to-day supervisory decisions, will be able to supplement the team’s experience in national security matters.
Smith has committed to hit the ground running at a sprint, and he has the capacity to act quickly. Garland commented that he was “confident that this appointment will not slow the completion of these investigations” when he made his announcement. This is something I’ll be watching carefully in the early days as Smith’s office gets to work. It won’t be the first time Smith joins an ongoing trial team—he did that with the Kosovo war crimes tribunal in the Hague, where he has worked most recently, coming on board a couple of years into the investigation and before any charges had been filed. There are now over 100 charges.”
And THIS:
“SCO thoughts: – Mueller did not “start from scratch” – the investigations had been ongoing for 10 months, and already obtained hundreds of financial/communications records, conducted scores of interviews, consensual monitorings, and executed searches
– there was little delay – Mueller was appointed on May 17 and he and his leadership team were at FBIHQ getting briefed two days later – existing agents/analysts largely transferred over to the SCO; identifying attorneys took a few weeks (work already done in current SCO cases)
– there was no discernible impact on the pace of the investigations; if anything, it greatly increased within a month – space to house the SCO was identified within weeks (not sure where investigative teams are housed now, but I highly recommend bringing everyone under one roof)
Bottom line, I don’t expect SC’s appointment to negatively impact short term pace, and think it will streamline and speed up work very quickly Don’t focus on the front end of the if/when of indictments – think about 2024 onward when prosecutions may very well still be underway”
Kay
@rikyrah:
I think providers have a clear-cut ethical obligation to refuse orders from Right wing lawyers. If you’re a provider in a state where women don’t have the full set of rights and you are being forced to provide substandard care to women with pregnancy complications you are violating your oath.
They have to move to a free state. They cannot abide by that oath and refuse standard of care treatment to pregnant women.
gwangung
@WaterGirl: Even at that, emphasizing the real world consequences only works so far—people have to think they’re realistic and imminent.
I remember the campaign in the 00s (a DECADE or so ago) that normals didn’t believe Dems when they QUOTED ACTUAL REPUBLICAN POLICY, because they didn’t think Republicans could be so evil. They thought it was all made up by Democrats.
Kay
@rikyrah:
It’s unfortunate for providers it has come to this, but if they are refusing to refer pregnant women with cancer to cancer treatment then they are violating their ethical rules.
It isn’t their fault but it is very much their problem.
Lady WereBear
@Dorothy A. Winsor: You can look for Way of Cats :) I also have a book Mastodon:
@[email protected]
WaterGirl
@Alce_e_ardillo: I think you are exactly right, but we also have to talk about it in those terms, not just think about it in those terms. I plan to try to keep Dan Wagner’s excellent advice in mind when I talk to people.
People like one of my sisters pays no attention to politics until 45 minutes before she has to vote, and then she sees the ads and they totally contradict each other – you’re corrupt, no you’re corrupt!
So she doesn’t know what to do or who to believe, so I’m pretty sure she asks her husband how he is voting, and she does that.
Though she did vote for Obama (for me) in 2008 because I was so active working for Obama. (But I digress!)
It would be petty for me to add that her husband (who i have always dearly loved) is the one who when I said “you didn’t vote for Trump did you?” replied with “well, I sure wasn’t gonna vote for the lying bitch!”
So we have to figure out how to reach people like my sister, who doesn’t pay attention, not the people who still think Hillary is a lying bitch.
delphinium
@rikyrah:
Agree, along with emphasizing how our policies impact voters directly, we also need to keep the focus on how overturning Roe will impact women and their families even if they are in a ‘safe state’. If you ever travel elsewhere for work or vacation, you will be at risk if going to a restrictive state.
And we need to push that the GOP will take away access to birth control.
UncleEbeneezer
@WaterGirl: I’ve heard this several times before from people who study messaging. Most people really don’t care about policy, but they very much care about the IMPACT/RESULTS of policies.
I definitely think we need to start re-framing things like CRT and Anti-Trans bullshit in ways that celebrate the Freedom and Safety of our positions. The story of Abolitionists, Runaway Slaves, Union Army, Civil Rights Movement, Women’s Suffrage etc., are some of the greatest triumphs of FREEDOM in US History. We need to frame them as such.
Transgender kids deserve the FREEDOM to make decisions (with their family and doctors) about their gender identity and any gender-affirming steps, and the SAFETY of not being subject to abuse (dead-naming, using wrong pronouns etc.) and bullying in schools or anywhere else.
Cameron
@Peke Daddy: Republican message: Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.
delphinium
@WaterGirl:
This is 1 of the reasons I would like to see ads year round (not excessive but maybe here and there throughout the year). Once it gets to election time, it is almost too late to get a standard message out because either the topic has been demonized by the GOP or because there is so many ads on tv and radio that people just stop paying attention. People may notice an ad more if it is the off-season.
schrodingers_cat
Curiously, non-white people seem to get the Ds messaging without any problems. May be the problem is not the messaging.
A majority of white women (and an even bigger majority of white men) still vote R. Roe reversal didn’t change that for the last election. And among the college educated women too, the R vote share is around 40% or more.
Geminid
@Chief Oshkosh: Mary Peltola, Alaska’s new Congresswoman, had a variant of this message as her campaign slogan: “Fish, Family, Freedom.”
I thought it was a good one, at least for her state. I also think that underneath Ms. Peltola’s cheerful exterior there is a very shrewd politician.
FelonyGovt
The LA Times has a great article today called “Fears Confirmed in a Post-Roe Landscape” discussing some of the horrible medical consequences- cancer treatment delayed, dangerous ectopic pregnancies, etc. (I’m a subscriber and I don’t think they’ve figured out the “gift article” thing yet, so I can’t link to it.)
I wish more mainstream media were covering these kinds of consequences. This is a lack of freedom.
Kay
Someone finally noticed this:
Went after journalists specifically, by name, for the sin of reporting that was less than deferentially worshipful of Right wing judges.
The whole GOP lawyers gala was one big whinefest about how everyone thinks they’re hacks and they aren’t given the respect they’re entitled to.
FelonyGovt
@delphinium: For some reason I have been seeing tons of TV commercials pushing a “Texas vacation”. Putting aside the question of why someone in California would want to go to Texas to hang out by a pool or watch Mexican dancers– I always think about a pregnant woman who might have a medical emergency while on her “Texas vacation”.
WaterGirl
@delphinium: Good ideas!
Betty Cracker
Regarding the special counsel appointment, Jill Wine-Banks and Neal Katyal were both critical of it on an MSNBC show I saw the day of the announcement. They said it’s unnecessary and will probably delay resolution. But others said it was a good thing and won’t cause a delay.
I don’t think anyone knows for sure what the outcome will be, so I’m choosing not to worry about it. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Trump is ever held accountable for anything, tbh. The documents case seems like the best shot, but even then, his lawyers will probably manage to delay it until Trump is a moldering pile of cheeto dust in a golden casket off the 9th hole somewhere.
WaterGirl
@gwangung:
You are right about that. How do we actually DO that?
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: Yes to all of that. Our job after we rest for a bit – after the runoff, after Thanksgiving and Christmas – is to figure out how to turn these good ideas into action.
WaterGirl
@delphinium: Yep, totally agree. We somehow have to get this across clearly enough, and often enough, that it becomes part of the new conventional wisdom.
So that when they think of freedom and safety, they think of Democrats.
delphinium
@FelonyGovt:
That should probably be an ad. Show a family excited to go to another state to spend time at a beach or with grandma; then have the pregnant mother experience a medical emergency and show that she was refused care in that vacation state. End of ad would be the consequences of that law for her and her family.
WaterGirl
@Kay:
They ARE hacks. And they are entitled to NO RESPECT.
gwangung
@WaterGirl: This is bleeding edge stuff, meaning no one’s figured out anything.
There’s a trust issue here, and the best thing I can think is a long term strategy; speaking in memes or short, witty statements won’t cut it.
And remember that close to you is more concrete than farther away.
Tarragon
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
We’ve stopped going to our local parades, small town suburb of medium size city, for the same reasons. We don’t feel safe and we can’t put ourselves in a place were we will have a fast escape route.
Starfish
@schrodingers_cat: Basically, all mastodon instances speak ActivityPub. The instance you choose is run by volunteer sysadmins/moderators. With the influx of people, these instances are falling over because the sysadmins never expected to have so many users, and the moderators are overwhelmed because these are more types of people than they ever expected.
Your sysadmins/moderators decide when and how to upgrade the system, if/when they are going to ban other instances, and even things like who can have an account on an instance.
Choosing an instance where you like your moderator and like the people who are there would be wise. However, if you pick an instance you don’t like, you can move.
A lot of instances have defederated from counter.social so I would not pick that as my instance (because I would miss out on things I might want to see.)
Kent
How do you win in red and rural areas?
You run a campaign EXACTLY like Marie Gluesenkamp Perez did here in the WA-3rd. Which was the reddest district in the country that flipped blue.
First you start with a candidate who is actually rural, not some carpet-bagger dropping in from the big city as was the case with the last Dem candidate who ran in this district, Carolyn Long, who was a Portland resident until she decided to run for Congress in the WA-3rd.
Then you run hard on bread and butter issues like rural employment, health care, and yes, abortion rights which are popular in rural areas too (witness Kansas and Kentucky).
And you run light on gun control, which is frankly a lost-cause in this country anyway. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez ran on 2nd Amendment Rights as well, which kind of took that issue off the table and let her talk about other bread and butter issues.
And then you spend all your time 24/7 going around to every little cafe, grange hall, town fair and festival, etc. and meet people, listen to them, and talk to them as equals. It multiplies, because the people you convince talk do their friends and neighbors.
delphinium
@Kay:
So question for lawyers here: If pharmacists and other medical professionals can refuse to treat someone due to their ‘religious’ beliefs and not get prosecuted even though they cause harm, why can those who perform their duties to help patients not be free from prosecution even though it aligns with their ethical and moral beliefs? Why can’t these providers say treating people aligns with their religious beliefs?
Do we need to start a Medical Profession religion so they can then be free to do as they please? This is a bit snarky, but am wondering if there is some work around from these death cult ghouls.
EarthWindFire
So a cancer patient has the freedom to get sicker and the freedom to pay higher costs for extra treatment? That would make me so proud to be a Floridian.
Betty
@delphinium: The situation occurred recently for a young woman who attended a family wedding in Texas and got in trouble with a miscarriage. Very dangerous situation.
Brachiator
Coming to this thread late, during a work break.
Is the author saying that women don’t understand the implications of the Supreme Court decision unless Democrats explain it to them in easy words?
Not buying it. I think women understand and Democratic Party leadership should listen to women in developing strategy.
But maybe I am missing something.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Wag: It’s not just the Democrats, it’s a lot people who make up the left who confuse the issue with overly complex arguments or derail it over some pet cause of there’s. As the lawyers were pointing out Roe was always about privacy and far reaching consequences beyond a woman’s pregnancy.
It’s like that Drag Queen Club massacre last weekend. The whole thing is less about gay rights and more about assholes feeling they have the right to lose their shit over someone not acting or dressing the way they approve of.
Matt McIrvin
@Tarragon: Our town’s “Santa parade” yesterday had guys in period costume firing muskets and costumed dancers with firecrackers, and in both cases the bangs freaked me out a little and wondered if people should be doing these things any more. I’ve DEFINITELY heard guns going off in the neighborhood before.
Betty
@Betty Cracker: Jill Wine-Banks had revised her opinion as of last evening. Delay had been a concern, but that seems to have been addressed.
lowtechcyclist
@gwangung:
Yeah, I remember that too. I don’t think that was a one-off either; it’s been a continuing phenomenon.
I’m hoping that Dobbs has broken through that disbelief, especially with the reinforcement of (a) the raft of incredibly restrictive and punitive laws that many red states have been passing, and (b) the all too frequent instances where women are denied proper health care on account of proper treatment involving the same procedures as what would be done for an abortion.
This is who they are, folks. It’s in plain sight now.
Alce_e_ardillo
@delphinium: They may not be “prosecuted” but I certainly would report them to the state body regulating their profession, for sanctioning. There are lots of things that are not “illegal” but are contrary to the rules of each state.
trollhattan
Frum, on party discipline.
FelonyGovt
@delphinium: The problem is, doctors understandably don’t want to be a test case, particularly if they risk imprisonment. They have families, mortgages, possible student loan debt. They don’t want to risk having a right-wing judge, in the same right-wing state that passed the restrictive law, decide they weren’t medically justified in rendering care.
Kay
@WaterGirl:
No one orders these justices to attend GOP galas. Surely Justice Barrett has the capacity to politley decline to be one of the “headliners” at these Right wing political events.
The funniest part is how they all jumped aboard the silly “cancel culture” bandwagon because they supposedly value debate but the Right wing justices attend EXCLUSIVELY GOP events. It’s an echo chamber. They surround themselves exclusively with far Right lawyers.
delphinium
@Kent:
One thing I really hope happens in the upcoming House is that rural democrats get together to help strategize like you mention. And then have pointers ready for up-and-coming/potential democratic candidates who may want to run in purple/red districts to help them with messaging. While it will be a bit different depending on the district/state, there should be enough common ground there that the information and strategies will be useful.
trollhattan
@FelonyGovt: Point and laugh? That’s my sole incentive for vacationing in Texas. TBH what I know, personally, about it I’ve gathered during DFW layovers.
Kay
@FelonyGovt:
It isnt judges they have to fear. It’s ambitious and political Right wing prosecutors, of which there are PLENTY.
But I agree. They should be afraid. They’re at real risk. I think they have to move to a free state.
davecb
Wag writes
And you can easily make your facts incredibly hard to figure out (and believe!) if you start describing process, rather than results. The result is women are put at risk. The process is all sorts of incredibly nerdy and hard-to-follow things a Texas legislature pulled off.
I don’t want to know how the evil plot worked, I want to know the result, that it’s evil, and what I need to do if I want to prevent that result.
Then and only then I might be be interested in how the plot worked. Maybe.
trollhattan
@Kay: No kidding.
Trump has established himself as the oppressed Republican poster child with his constant “I’m being treated so unfairly,” which is as convincing as the middle-school bully’s “stop hitting yourself” antics.
Others look on and want a piece of that for themselves.
It’s like when I complain the Champagne is being served five degrees too warm.
trollhattan
Waves to Arizona.
lowtechcyclist
@Kent:
I’m fine with Dems in rural districts running light on gun control. We do what we’ve gotta do.
But I disagree about gun control being a lost cause. It’s a generational thing, and when enough voters were living under the specter of school shootings when they were kids and are now adults and can outvote their elders, things are gonna change fast.
The kids who were juniors in high school when the Columbine shooting took place are now 40 years old. Think on that. Since then, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Parkland, Uvalde, and just the other day, U.Va. And I’m sure I left out a few. And as a result, active shooter drills everyfuckingwhere. Things will change.
rikyrah
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
They were attacked FOR THEIR EXISTENCE.
PERIOD.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@schrodingers_cat:
Yup. No amount of messaging gets past the racism.
gvg
@Alce_e_ardillo: It turns out, it’s also about ignorant busybodies who think they know more than they do, interfering in other medical treatments for people who are not pregnant just because the medicine is rumored to be an abortion drug. They are assuming all women are guilty too. It is revealing that they are so horrible to women even though many of them are women and also how stupid they are.
I don’t think most of us pictured this. We said they wanted to take us back in time, but this is even stupider than that.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty: She also still hasn’t answered the question of how potentially indicting a former President, current candidate and several sitting Congresspeople of Obstruction, Sedition and Espionage wouldn’t possibly qualify as “extraordinary circumstances” which is the DOJ standard for appointing a SC. It’s hard to imagine a scenario more “extraordinary” than this.
Soprano2
@rikyrah: I agree, it’s about telling stories, like the one in our local paper a couple of weeks ago about the woman who at 18 weeks had her water break so that her pregnancy became non-viable. She went through a 2 week nightmare because of MO’s abortion ban, including the attorney general referring her to a crisis pregnancy center when she asked for advice about how to deal with the situation! I’ve even had a hard time getting my husband to understand the real fear doctors have of being criminally prosecuted for helping a woman in that situation now because these laws are so (intentionally) poorly written. People don’t relate to a recitation of dry facts, but they sure to relate to a story like that. What if it were their sister or daughter or wife or them going through that hell?
delphinium
@Alce_e_ardillo:
Right, but am thinking of those pharmacists who refuse to prescribe birth control pills (eventhough these are often prescribed for other health issues). It seems like the standard reply is that the Rx can be filled by another pharmacist (if available) or the patient can go to a different pharmacy. So it seems that the refusing pharmacist is then left off the hook and probably wouldn’t be sanctioned regardless of the fact that they are not doing their job. It bothers me that they can state that they won’t do their job for ‘religious’ reasons yet don’t have to demonstrate they actually follow those beliefs; nor are the patient’s own religious beliefs taken into consideration in these cases.
Kent
@lowtechcyclist: Gun control is a lost cause in the sense that our current GOP courts aren’t going to let stand any gun control measures that are actually effective. So it really doesn’t matter what the House does at this point.
If you want to talk about a multi-generational project of taking back the courts then I’m all in. But gun control policy in this country isn’t going to hinge on whether Marie Gluesenkamp Perez and a handful of other rural Dems support it or not. And frankly I’m sure she supports it but she just doesn’t want to run on it in a rural district that tilts red. Especially when there are so many other Democratic issues that get better traction in rural America.
Kay
Getting ready to jam through the Chris Rufo far Right agenda despite the will of the voters who just elected Democrats.
Betty Cracker
@trollhattan: Sounds about right, especially since McCarthy (if he’s the next speaker) will be beholden to extremist nutballs like MTG. A narrowly held GOP House might actually be better for Biden’s reelection prospects than Dems holding the House would have been.
Kent
The actual flip side is health care workers in say Texas claiming that their religious belief requires that they provide full spectrum healthcare to women and that means abortion. And that prohibiting them from performing abortions violates their religious beliefs.
If we aren’t going to question the religious integrity of a MAGA pharmacist, they we shouldn’t question the religious integrity of a health care worker who is called to provide comprehensive women’s health care either.
lowtechcyclist
@Kent: You must’ve given my comment an extremely hurried skimming before responding. I barely know where to start, so I’m not going to bother. I’m not sure why you did.
Kay
The winning candidates sold themelves explicitly as anti culture war candidates- people who would perform some actual work on behalf of public school students instead of the ridiculous “wokeism” fight.
It was a reaction to how far Right the State Board of Education has gone and how completely useless they are with their focus on litterboxes in classrooms.
Soprano2
@delphinium: A woman named Jessica Piper campaigned like that in MO House district 1. It’s a highly conservative district where she only improved the Democrat’s vote percentage by 4% this election over last, but at least she tried. She calls herself a “dirt road Democrat” and talked a lot about farms and agriculture and rural healthcare. She’s from the area, grew up dirt poor in different small towns. I’ve got to give her credit for trying in a district like that when other districts don’t even have a Democrat running. I’m hoping she can stay active, because Democrats need candidates like her fighting for us in places like that.
gvg
@Kay: So you don’t think any doctors should stay in the non free states? Too bad for all the women and men who need them for every thing else? Because almost every doctor has to treat women sometimes and these issues do come up. which is why the anti abortion position is so stupid. You are being just as extreme. They are in a bad position and some will leave but it is not that simple and they can’t all do it nor should they.
cain
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: hence your handle here ? Heh. Also keep in mind there are other stuff too .. check out bookwyrm which is mastodon for book lovers. It’s like one big book club ! No need to use goodreads and give Amazon info.
gvg
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Which I think they are getting in their churches. Not all churches. Also certain media outlets.
Soprano2
@delphinium: I just saw a story in our local paper about a nurse suing Mercy Hospital for violating her “religious beliefs” when they fired her for not getting the Covid-19 vaccine. The sum total of her “religious belief” is that she believes God doesn’t want her to get vaccinated! Mercy is a religious hospital (Catholic-based), and even they aren’t buying that bullshit. They think they can say “religious belief” and get anything they want.
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
Think of them as neighborhoods that have different make up .. maybe there is a server filled with anti-bakts that you can interact on the local server feed and then use the fediverse feed to interact with everyone else. You have your personal feed of people you follow.
Look at the server and see what audience they are advertising for.
ETA I think someone is trying for a BiPOC server but not heard of a server yet.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty: Also, I love Jill but if you listen to the last #SistersInLaw episode her main objection was that she thought this decision paints the US Attorneys in a bad light even though they will still be heavily involved. It was a weird stance, imo. Jill sometimes sounds like she still thinks things should run like they did during Watergate.
delphinium
@FelonyGovt:
Yes, I totally understand that and would not blame any doctor who decides to move out of state or leave the profession altogether. It is just rage-inducing that the agency of the doctor and the woman is so easily stripped away by lawmakers who don’t care a whit about life, regardless of how much they preen to the public otherwise.
Kay
@gvg:
I dont know how they comply with their professional ethical obligations and treat pregnant women in these states. Honestly? They genuinely care about a patient in a high risk pregnancy? They need to send her for best practices care out of state. When the crisis happens it may be too late to get her full spectrum, modern medical care. So if they’re in Ohio they refer to Michigan.
Where the health of the mother is likely to be an issue she needs to be somewhere where she can get proper medical care and they’re the experts, they’re the people who would need to tell her that.
Not their fault, but definitely their problem. At the very least tell her the risk she’s shouldering by remaining in a state where she will not get best practices care.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator: Maybe you’re missing the part where he said that talk of the Supreme Court and talk about judges falls on deaf ears.
I can guarantee that my sister that I talked about above has never for one second thought about the implications of the SC decision on abortion.
She thinks that her beloved grandson wouldn’t be here if her 18-year-old daughter had had an abortion. It has never occurred to her that a lot of women with an ectopic pregnancies will die because of this ruling.
Kent
I think you are right in that it is a generational thing and frankly I think we are already there in the sense that a majority of the public support gun control. Every poll suggests we are already at that point.
However none of that matters as long as conservatives control the courts. And I don’t see that changing anytime soon. So what Americans actually think doesn’t make much if any difference. A majority of Americans also support environmental protection and that doesn’t make any difference. SCOTUS still neuters the EPA.
And frankly too many liberals really don’t seem to give a fuck about the courts or we wouldn’t have had so many dilettantes refusing to vote for Hillary or Gore in elections past. Not to mention RBG taking her entire legacy, throwing it in a dumpster, and setting it on fire.
Map out a pathway where Democrats control both the White House and Senate for the next 30 years and we can talk. Until then, whether or not some rural Dem member of Congress supports gun control measures in the House frankly makes no fucking difference.
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
I don’t believe this. Are there women who don’t understand that they have lost their reproductive rights? Where do they think this change came from?
So she has bought the “think of the babies” argument. Does she believe that the government has the right to force women to continue a pregnancy?
I know deeply religious people who deny that a woman’s life would be at risk or that it doesn’t matter and must be left to God to determine who lives or dies.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator:
The point is that she has never thought about it, and she never will think about it if the conversation is about the SC and judges.
The point is that she and others like her will only think about it until we lay out the consequences in a way that will reach her emotionally.
zhena gogolia
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: You have the greatest nym.
redactor
Tl;dr https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1584341474644152322?s=61&t=d0zG-nwPD1NxzQiPSDZ6Hg
cain
@Brachiator:
But also so that their precious feelings are not hurt and we are deeply humble when communicating as not to hurt their fragility of that white kind.
TriassicSands
@OGLiberal:
If people leave the country, it makes the threat greater for everyone they leave behind. It’s tragic that it has come to this, but if the US falls permanently under the control of fascists, you may not be safe anywhere in the world.
Nowhere else in the world can you have as much influence on the future as in the US. For good or ill.
That said, I fully understand your wife’s feelings.
Geminid
@Kent: I know that when the Supreme Court struck down New York’s concealed carry law earlier this year a lot of folks said that this meant the end of the Heller case’s ruling (by Antonin Scalia) that there is an individual right to own a firearm and that governments can impose reasonable restrictions on firearms sales and use. But that opinion did not reject the reasoning in Heller, just it’s applicability to the particular law.
I think it is premature to say that gun control proposals are useless because Republican courts will strike them down. I’ll believe that when I see it it happen in my state and others. For now, the six gun safety laws Virginia Democrats passed in 2020 are still standing, and I think they still will be two years from now.
Gun safety advocacy groups certainly haven’t thrown on the towel, and neither would I.
That said, I think Ms. Glusenkamp Perez did well not to push gun safety proposals. She had plenty of other good issues more suited to her district’s electorate
Gun safety can be a winning issue in suburban districts, though. At least they seemed to be for Virginia Democrats in 2017 and 2019. I think they will make some political hay out of this issue next year also.
delphinium
@Kent:
But presently health care workers do their job (or are supposed to) based on the ethical standards of care in their profession which is pretty straightforward and puts the patient first, which does not require any specific religious belief at all. Saying you won’t perform your job due to nebulous ‘religious’ beliefs is not the same thing. Yes there are certain religious things that employers should accommodate (high holidays, dietary restrictions, etc). However, that doesn’t mean that employees don’t have to perform their duties. Someone who states that they won’t prescribe birth control or perform life-saving care because of their ‘religion’ but doesn’t actual live those beliefs (eg, votes for pro-gun, pro-war, pro-death penalty politicians) don’t get to claim they are pro-life or have ‘deeply-held’ religious beliefs. Which is why people just need to do their job and leave their beliefs out of it-the patient is supposed to be the focus, not them. If you cannot do that, then find another job because you are actively harming people.
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
Really? Did she previously have an opinion about abortion? Has she changed her mind now that it has been explained to her?
delphinium
@Soprano2: That is great to hear-sorry she lost but hopefully she will run again next time!
Kay
@delphinium:
I imagine a woman who is pregnant and finds out she has cancer has enough to worry about. She cannot be worrying about some far Right religious health care provider imposing some invented standard rather than the best practices standard. They demand too much. The answer is “no”.
TriassicSands
Surprised, Betty? I’ll be shocked. Still, I hopeful.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator: It can’t be explained to her in a general way because she will tune it out.
But when the time is right I can tell her that when one of her extended family members on her husband’s side was pregnant and the child had no brain and had to have a “procedure” that doing so would no longer be possible in a lot of states. And that she might have died because she was no longer able to have that procedure.
A general conversation won’t do it. It would have to be about someone she knows or she will tune it out because “there’s no point in paying attention to politics because she can’t do anything about anything anyway.”
Frankensteinbeck
@trollhattan:
Speaker John Boehner opposed the lunge and tried, largely in vain, to control it.
No, he fucking didn’t. He made up an entirely new ‘rule’ to justify unprecedented total obstruction. His crazies were a small minority of his caucus. Their power existed only because he gave it to them. Hell, if he’d stuck to the actual Hastert Rule, which Hastert himself didn’t use, and only allow votes on bills the majority of his caucus supported, the House would not be dysfunctional today. Boehner is an equal architect with McConnell of the current obstruction, and he successfully dumped all the blame on the loons he gave their power.
Kent
I agree with you 100%.
All I am saying is that if some nebulous claim of religious freedom gets MAGA pharmacist off the hook for NOT prescribing necessary medication. Then the same exact principle should get any health care provider off the hook for providing an abortion in Texas simply by asserting the same nebulous religious principle.
Do I think that will actually happen? No, of course not. Because the courts are not even pretending to apply consistent legal principles anymore. But I am saying it SHOULD happen. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
James E Powell
@FelonyGovt:
The mainstream media has spent the last 50 years portraying anti-abortion forces in a halo of godliness & moral superiority.
Kent
@Geminid: Pretty much all the gun control stuff you are talking about in Virginia and elsewhere are really small bore measures. I’m not saying people and activists shouldn’t keep pushing the envelope and keep working on this issue. But none of it is remotely in the same universe as actual gun control measures in other counties that actually do reduce firearms deaths.
I’m very pro gun control. I would prefer to live in a country like Japan that actually controls firearms. But I’m pessimistic it will ever happen. We have 2-times or more firearms washing across this country than we did a generation ago so we are moving in the wrong direction.
I also think rural Dems are right to take the issue off the table in their campaigns. It is a loser issue in rural America whereas abortion is actually not. As Marie Gluesenkamp Perez just proved. She ran very hard on reproductive rights and did better than any other recent dem in the rural parts of this district. Didn’t win them, but did better. And she also promised to uphold 2nd Amendment Rights every time the question came up. Which pretty much took it off the table. Joe Kent didn’t run any 2nd Amendment related attack ads because he had nothing to attack.
Betty Cracker
Speaking of Boehner, he’s at the top of my list of ex- or current pols I’d like to have a cocktail with. Yes, he’s a complete shitbag, but from interview clips and book excerpts I’ve read, he’d be a highly entertaining shitbag who would spill all the tea after a bourbon or two. Late, great commenter EF Goldman used to call Boehner “weeping cheeto,” and I still think that’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever read on this blog.
cain
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Create a bookwyrm account too – https://joinbookwyrm.com/ !
I think you might enjoy this one.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: I remember reading that Boehner, who always struck me as a mediocrity partially redeemed by a sense of humor, dreamed of being the sort of consequential Speaker who had buildings named after them. Struck me as almost poignant, if he weren’t one of the monkeys who let the tigers out of their cages.
If he had sponsored a bipartisan immigration reform bill as he zippity-doo-dah’d his way out the door to become a Florida pot lobbyist, we might be living in a very different country
James E Powell
@Betty Cracker:
I may complain about it from time to time, but I’m definitely not going to worry about it or really care too much about the outcome. I will be shocked if Trump or anyone else above the level of foot soldier suffers any legal consequences.
The #1 priority is election day 2024. That & any special congressional elections that may come up. Winning elections is our only way out of this.
Hitchhiker
@WaterGirl:
My beloved grandchildren wouldn’t be here if I HADN’T had an abortion long before their mothers were born, because my life would have gone very differently and my daughters would never have existed.
The simplest message to people like your sister is that everyone ought to have the freedom to manage their own bodies, and sometimes that means an outcome far better than we could ever have imagined, much less planned for.
Back in 1974, I sure wasn’t thinking of myself at 70 falling in love with 3 little babies in the course of a single year. But that’s how it turned out.
James E Powell
@WaterGirl:
Repetition across a broad spectrum of media helps.
There are a lot of voters who belief not only that “defund the police” is the official policy of the Democratic Party, but that it has already been done all over America. Just one example.
In this last election cycle, I don’t understand why there weren’t TV ads showing Rick Scott’s face with his plans for social security in quotes accompanied by the usual ominous music running in every media market in the country.
delphinium
@Kay: Yes, it is horrible and I cannot imagine the pain for any woman faced with this. There are standard of care practices that are to be followed for a reason. It is shocking that all of that can be thrown out the window by any ass who whines about ‘religious beliefs’. This should have been nipped in the bud decades ago, but now the attention-seeking death cultists get to create their own standards, patients be damned.
Betty Cracker
@James E Powell: There were ads this cycle here in Florida featuring Rick Scott and his plans to dismantle Social Security. Fat lot of good it did for the Dems on the ticket, unfortunately, but Scott wasn’t on the ballot. Next time he is, I hope they dust those ads off.
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
Ramifications, short and detailed must be spelled out in various places.
But if there are people who believe that their bodies belong to the government, that’s tough to deal with.
Yutsano
@rikyrah: Thank. You.
Geminid
@Kent: Well, you can characterize the six Virginia laws as “small bore” if you want but I think that is too dismissive.
Personally, I won’t be satisfied until my state has California’s current level of firearms regulation, plus a effective ban on military style “assault” rifles. But I’ve got no problem if that takes several “small bore” steps.
I think you are correct to say that this country’s courts will not allow the government to impose restrictions so strict that, like in Japan, private ownership of firearms is virtually extinct. And if that is how you define a system where we “actually control firearms,” I guess we will never actually control firearms the way you mean it.
But by standards of harm reduction, California’s firearms laws actually mitigate injury and death. I think Virginia’s have too. And these laws can be improved, and should be even if some people might still find them insufficient.
I would add that even if Gluesnamp Perez did not propose additional gun safety measures- assault weapons ban, expanded background checks, etc.- Joe Kent still could have run on gun rights proposals like nationwide permitless concealed carry, eliminating restrictions on ghost guns and the like. Republicans have done this in other places. But if Kent had done so in that district, rural as it may be, he would have lost by a lot more than he did.
eclare
@Betty Cracker: Heh…weeping cheeto, that’s good. And I agree Boehner would be entertaining.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@cain: I created an account (DorothyWinsor) and am experimenting around to see what happens. Thanks for the tip.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
White people in this country have been being told for a long time, often subliminally that they are losing everything because black people, gun restrictions, taxes. And a lot of that depends on what channel one sees most often on TV or what radio channel one listens to. Faux news is not even all that subtle about it. If you don’t watch or listen to it all the time you’d never notice it. But if you do…..
Matt McIrvin
I think there is a limit to the extent that judges can simply rule over us like kings. I think they’re starting to feel the pushback a little, which is why they get so incensed. I do think there’s a distinction between finding or enforcing rights of the people (that democratic action might curtail) and taking them away, which is why overturning Roe got them so much more friction than the right-wing extremism on guns.
Ruckus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Simplify the ads, use normal english rather than key/code words.
Look at the opposition and see what words they use for acceptance of their BS and speak in the same language but from the other direction. Some will understand the code words just fine others will gloss over any ad that doesn’t use the common vernacular.
Matt McIrvin
Conservative intellectuals always used to pretend they were making process arguments (“legislating from the bench”, “federalism”, “states’ rights” etc.), I think because they noticed these were good at tripping up their liberal opponents. I think everyone on their side knew these were code for results arguments.
cain
@Betty Cracker: Every one of these voters know that us liberals are going to fight these things and so they still feel free to vote GOP. But as well they know that they would get an exception because they are old. In other words, FYIGMA.
KSinMA
@schrodingers_cat: “Curiously, non-white people seem to get the Ds messaging without any problems. May be the problem is not the messaging.”
THANK YOU
Lady WereBear
@delphinium: The Right Wing is doing this to undermine our natural inclination towards expertise. Knowing what the bleep you are doing.
They would prefer we forget such a thing exists. Squirrel!
dww44
@Kay: There needs to be a real and enforceable set of ethics rules for the SC, one of which should be an absolute limit on the amount and times a justice could be “paid” outside of his/her salary.
The best cure for this perversion of the justices would be to eliminate lifetime appointments……across the entire judiciary.