Many times, Sully’s rhetoric is over the top, but he nails it here:
For some it’s about “war” in general – a newly empowered new age pacifism. For France, it’s about … France, and its eclipse as a power of any significance. France’s crisis is deepened by the fact that a successful war against Saddam could also accelerate the end of the Franco-German bloc as the power-house of the European Union. For Russia, it’s about money. For the Germans, it’s about a new national identity. The Germans have never been able to sustain a moderate polity on their own. They veer from extreme romantic militarism to romantic pacifism. Their current abdication of all strategic responsibility for Europe or the wider world is just another all-too-familiar spasm from German history. For the broader anti-war forces in Europe, it’s about American uni-polar power – and the need to counteract it, even if it’s being put to good use. For still others, especially in the Vatican and France, it’s the old Jew-hatred again. For the Democrats, it’s about getting back to prescription drugs. For the anti-war left in America, it’s really about Bush. The pent-up fury they felt after Florida never found expression or even validation in the wider culture. It was repressed in the first months of a new presidency – and then made irrelevant by 9/11. Finally, they have a chance to demonstrate their hate – which is why so much of the demonstrations’ focus has not been on Saddam, Iraq or even war, but on Bush. The anti-Bush left knows that a successful war will only strengthen the president further and marginalize them even more – hence their utter desperation and viciousness today. This is their moment; and the demonstrations are their therapy.
Mmmhmm.
Oliver
Simple concepts for simple minds. I’m sure a lot of people dismissed Vietnam protesters as people who just hated Nixon, Johnson. Much easier to cast aspersions than look at real reasons for opposing elective military confrontation.
There are many conservative voices out there who I disagree with, but make sense. Andy Sullivan ain’t one of ’em.
John Cole
Simple concepts for simple minds.
And Oliver stops by for another drive by insult- but comparing Bush to Hitler is deep thought…
There are plenty out there who have a principled opposition to war (and I mean war in general). There are many people out there who have a principled opposition to a war in Iraq.
There are, however, a great number of people who are simply REFLEXIVELY anti-Bush. Hell- that was why the the Brain Terminal video was so funny- he demonstrated, quite clearly, that for many this is not about the war- this is about Bush. A large group of people (include anyone who continues to utter the phrase selected, not elected) think of this as simply some way to get back at Bush. You read the comments at Atrios, you post on the Democraticunderground (you are one of the few there who doesn’t come off as clinically insane). You know this is in part true. Quit denying it.
Phil
Much easier to cast aspersions than look at real reasons for opposing elective military confrontation.
I forget — which one is the “real reason?” Is it “Bush=Hitler,” “Bomb Texas,” “Regime Change Begins At Home,” “Stop Mad Cowboy Disease,” “No Blood For Oil” or “At Least Saddam Was Elected?” Nope, no reflexive anti-Bush feeling there. Just deeply thought out, princpled opposition to military action.
Oh, damn, I forgot — Jane Finch keeps telling me that all those people are irrelevant. Even though those appear to be the majority of people among the protestors, and even though the protestors are exactly the people Sullivan was discussing (” . . . which is why so much of the demonstrations’ focus has not been on Saddam, Iraq or even war, but on Bush.”), they’re irrelevant.
Oliver
And Oliver stops by for another drive by insult-
Actually, my statement was more for Sully than yourself. But if you buy his load too…
John Cole
I do agree with part of what Sully says here. I see it in action every day, so who am I supposed to believe- you, or my lying eyes?
Barney Gumble
“Franco-German bloc as the power-house”
At one time a the phrase “Franco-German bloc” would have been such a fantastic fantasy it would have been laughed off the paper!
Peace is a possibility! Why is that such a hard concept to grasp among the war-substitutes-for-penis crowd?
Andrew
Barney Gumble- What a pseudonym! Just those two words encapsulate a near perfect vision of moronic intellect and likely state of impotence that even a case of Viagra couldn’t cure.
And what can one say about poor old failed writer, Oliver? Not much.
RHJunior
I submit that the “rational” anti war crowd has no valid arguments, either. They have presented their arguments against the war; those arguments have been refuted by both reason and material evidence. Yet still they cling to “pacifism….”
if they are not, at the root of it, motivated by irrational emotionalism and instinctive hostility to the president, then what motivates them?
And as to the Vietnam protestors, there are plenty of former hippies– PJ O’Rourke among them– who have come out and confessed the truth: that their “motivations” consisted of free drugs, never having to work again, and using Marxist catchphrases to talk their way into some coed’s pants.
“Principled protestors,” my flabby white arse. As if being nobly principled absolved you from anything when you’re being a damned fool….
Oliver
And what can one say about poor old failed writer, Oliver? Not much.
I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.
John Cole
Peace is a possibility! Why is that such a hard concept to grasp among the war-substitutes-for-penis crowd?
Maybe because this is the kind of drivel that passes as an argument against war.
And Andrew, please refrain from personal attacks (even the radically ineffective ones- which is what that one was). I happen to like Oliver’s writing.
timTucker
ESTRADA GIVES GOOD HEAD
-orrin hatch
Avedon
Well, you know it’s possible to be furious at Bush because of Florida, and still terrified by the things he has done in office. If I really believed Bush was interested in doing something sensible in Iraq, and competent to do it…ah, but that’s a pipe-dream, given the way he has handled foreign policy for the last couple of years.
Look, the minute the guy got into office, he pulled our intel agencies off of Al Qaeda and started insulting our allies. After 9/11, everyone loved us, and now he’s managed to turn that around, too. Invading Iraq sure looks like a dangerous idea, and I see no reason to believe that this administration has any intention to end all dictatorship there. So far, we haven’t seen much in the way of evidence that invading is either necessary or useful, and we’ve seen a lot of reasons to be afraid of the mess it can make.
It’s not about liberating the Kurds – they’ve already been selling them out, publicly.
Most of all, do you really believe that the man who nominated John Ashcroft and has allowed him to continue in office has any desire to bring freedom to the Iraqi people? It’s just plain ridiculous to think so.
John Cole
I would disagree with your characterization of what is going on with our intelligence services- we seem to be recording a steady measure of success in pursuing and capturing Al Qaeda agents.
As far as many of the things Ashcroft has done- I agree with you. Just not everything the man has done has been bad.
John Cole
FWIW- The first mention of Ashcroft in this post or thread was by you- to use him as a bogeyman.
Aakash
Actually, France and Germany have very valid points. And some of the Europeans who support the war have ties to communism and socialism.
http://uis.blogspot.com
Something to keep in mind when people mention the “anti-war left”…
liva
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