Go read this heart-wrenching story about a Marine escort moving the remains of Marine hero to his hometown for burial. A snippet:
It turned out that I was the last escort to leave on Thursday. This meant that I repeatedly got to participate in the small ceremonies that mark all departures from the Dover AFB mortuary.
Most of the remains are taken from Dover AFB by hearse to the airport in Philadelphia for air transport to their final destination. When the remains of a service member are loaded onto a hearse and ready to leave the Dover mortuary, there is an announcement made over the building
Andrew J. Lazarus
I could see that photographing their remains would be brutal. But anonymous flag-draped coffins? This is a problem?? I truly don’t understand this, as I would never have thought that similar photographs from the Afghan War, had we seen them, were part of an International ANSWER plot to make us surrender to Osama.
Also, I don’t think you want to touch photographs as agitprop just now, on the anniversary of Pres. Bush’s Mission Accomplished speech, with the ship turned to make sure no one saw the San Diego skyline. (And, of course, the flightsuit costume photo op.)
Ksec
Its pathetic that those soldiers are even over there. Its like getting attacked by Mexico and responding by attacking Canada. Its fukin denial if you think otherwise. Your love of the President has clouded your reality. Iraq had nothing to do with 911 and you know it. You guys have changed your stories over and over about why we are over there and its almost comical if it wasnt for the fact that your refusing to see reality has gotten nearly a thousand of my brothers killed, you dirty SOB’s Shame on you for causing so many deaths. Burn in Hell for eternity.
StuckInOregon
Andrew and Ksec,
You both need to shut the stink hole under your nose. The story is not about whether the war is right or wrong, just as taking the pictures is any way in this real life realm that the rest of us indure is right. It is the dedication that the men and women are facing in that desert hell hole. If you ever spent any time in the military you would understand that. You look at it from you rosey glasses, Bush is Evil, and we weren’t attacked by attack view. With is total and complete bullsh*t. I served in that hell during the first go around. we should have eneded it then, but for the pansies in the United Nations that were receiving kick backs from Iraq. Was not about to let us upset their apple cart. Second big lie is the containment issue. How can you contain somebody when the people in charge of containing him was doing business on the side with him. Tha is like letting the fox watch the hen house. As for the WMDs, if Bush was such a evil man why didn’t he just have that awful corporation of Haliburton just plant a few WMDs and call a press conference and bring to light. Dems Hate Bush so much they don’t care and can’t and won’t see only reason, but instead just throws sh*t around and hope that it sticks to somebody other than their own candidate, and if it does they say the evil media and the Rebs are sicking their Dogs on him to make him look bad. Read the fine print and thin k for yourself. Quit swallowing the party crap or you and Jim Jones will have a lot in common.
JKC
John, “Stuck” and “Flagwaver” are starting to make me wish that Thorazine could be distributed through blog comment sections.
CadillaqJaq
A young neighbor of mine; a recent high school grad and member of the church I attend is a newly volunteered member of the US Army. The Sunday before he boarded the bus for basic training he stood up in church (much to the chagrin of our totally pacifist minister) and explained his reasons why… mostly of how September 11 had affected him and how he felt the call to do somethng about it.
Now this is not a wild eyed “brown-shit” zealot: this young man was in the drama club, held high acadamic scores and is a most talented musician. But even at 17 years of age, he “got” it, which is more than I can say for many who post here.
The most memorable of his words that last day in church were in effect,”… they want to see all of us dead along with our way of life.”
I’d ask those that disagree with our anti-terrorism policy, what in hell is so difficult to understand? God bless him, and all the others like him, especially those we have lost.
Slartibartfast
I’m not sure why you want pictures of coffins, Andrew. Care to enlighten us?
JKC
I won’t pretend to answer for Andrew, but here’s why I’m not interested in censoring pictures of coffins:
I want EVERYONE to understand the cost of war. Dollars are an abstraction, and a burning Humvee is a just another wrecked car. But the coffins are a reminder to everybody that wars have (often necessary) costs, and that the freedoms we enjoy were paid for by the blood of others.
Same reason why, when my kids are old enough to understand, I’m taking them here.
John Cole
JKC- I agree- the costs of war should be transparent. The media can take all the pictures they want- AFTER the remains have been delivered to the families. That is the point of the policy- to maintain the dignity and honor of the soldier, sailor, airman, and marine until his remains have been delivered to his/her family.
Slartibartfast
I have to say that by “censoring” JKC absolutely has to mean “kept the press from taking pictures to begin with”. This fails any rational test of censorship. Unless you’re the sort that wants the Dale Earnhardt autopsy photos in the newspapers.
JKC
Slaritbartfast:
Maybe censoring wasn’t a great choice of words.
To be clear, I don’t support photographing identifiable remains. I didn’t like the pictures of the four murdered contractors in Fallujah: they were somebody’s brothers, husbands, fathers, etc. That’s not the last image of their loved ones they should have.
But a flag-draped, unlabeled coffin? I don’t see where that invades anyone’s privacy, and I think it’s an excellent reminder to all of us of the price we sometimes ask our soldiers to pay.
John Cole
JKC-
Maybe I am particularly sensitive about this because people who are in the military and were in the military behave like a big fraternity.
At any rate, I would not want my mother to receive notice that I had been killed in action, then every day have to open up the newspaper to see flag draped coffins on the front page, and sit there wondering, “Is that my son.”
This is not a question of censorship, avoiding the real costs of war. This is an issue of providing some dignity and not further damaging those who have lost loved ones.
As I said- I have no problem with media coverage of military funerals- I just firmly believe that coverage should be restrained until our deceased heroes are reunited with their loved ones.
JKC
I’m not certain I agree with you, John, but I certainly respect your perspective in the issue.
One of my best friends just got back from a year in Baghdad. All I can say is that I’m glad he made it back in one piece.
Slartibartfast
Point well made, JKC. But I’d be inclined to take the route of least pain. Funerals are for the survivors, after all.
Andrew J. Lazarus
What I tried to explain in the first comment is that my opinion about the coffins is not related to my opinion about the war. I don’t see the coffin pictures as inherently anti-war.
I think the public wanted to see the way that these coffins are handled, perhaps some out of ghoulishness, and others to verify that their treatment was properly respectful. If the public is not interested in these pictures, then newspapers will run something else.
StuckInOregon
I think that the truth be told. The pictures themselves are not bad. It is the way in which they can and will be used. Look at teh flap that has come from Tillman’s death. He was a man that wanted to give back to his country for the blessings that he had received. What do the left wingers call me, a idiot for walking away for a NFL deal. Tillman was a man with his heart in the right place. I anti-war nuts has has a blast with this story. I am so tired of hearing Kerry keep talking about being a hero. So what he got three “I forgot to duck medals”. That was over thrity years ago. What has he done since then. What is voting record now. What is his plans for the future of America. Not his parties, or Edward Kennedy’s but his personal ideas. How is he going to implement them and pay for them.
Sorry off the thread. The pictures should not be published. let those that grieve, grieve without a picture of the unnamed casket to remind them of what they lost.
Slartibartfast
“I think the public wanted to see the way that these coffins are handled…”
What public? Nobody I know has been yearning to see pictures of boxes with flags draped over them. That, and the public has no rights in this regard. None.
Kimmitt
“is not censorship- this is a last act of decency to attempt to maintain the dignity of our fallen heroes. Why is that so hard to understand?”
Because it was instituted by President Bush 41 after he took a public relations hit for playing golf while coffins were arriving at Dover, so CNN ran a splitscreen of the two taking place simultaneously.
In other words, because it isn’t an act of decency — it is an act of political theater which does not deserve to have the resources of Federal law behind it.
Kimmitt
“is not censorship- this is a last act of decency to attempt to maintain the dignity of our fallen heroes. Why is that so hard to understand?”
Because it was instituted by President Bush 41 after he took a public relations hit for playing golf while coffins were arriving at Dover, so CNN ran a splitscreen of the two taking place simultaneously.
In other words, because it isn’t an act of decency — it is an act of political theater which does not deserve to have the resources of Federal law behind it.