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You are here: Home / Politics / Media / And Now For Something Completely Different

And Now For Something Completely Different

by John Cole|  November 29, 20051:43 pm| 96 Comments

This post is in: Media, General Stupidity

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I agree completely with Think Progress. Bill O’Reilly is a fricking idiot:

Every company in America should be on its knees thanking Jesus for being born. Without Christmas, most American businesses would be far less profitable. More than enough reason for business to be screaming “Merry Christmas.”

What. An. Ass.

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96Comments

  1. 1.

    Otto Man

    November 29, 2005 at 1:44 pm

    It’s like our parish priest used to remind us: “Jesus died for your profit margins.”

  2. 2.

    yet another jeff

    November 29, 2005 at 1:45 pm

    Is it just me, or did that quote make you think of GM standing on a bridge in Michigan saying “I wish I was never born”.

    Where’s Clarence when the 40th anniversary Camaro needs him?

  3. 3.

    APF

    November 29, 2005 at 1:54 pm

    Fine point, but I disagree with this push to celebrate the secularization of presumably highly-holy holidays, esp by people who are presumably religious themselves. Wouldn’t Jesus freak out over something like that?

  4. 4.

    Lines

    November 29, 2005 at 1:58 pm

    Its a nationally recognized holiday season. Christians don’t own the damn month. Federally, Christmas can only be recognized as a secular occasion, anyway.

    Happy holidays vs. Merry Christmas, big friggin whoop. Stop being oversensitive and make the season what you want it to be within your own circle of friends and family.

    Ooops, was that me attacking Christmas again? And a baptised Catholic boy like myself! Oh, the shame my poor mother must feel.

  5. 5.

    Steve

    November 29, 2005 at 2:06 pm

    When you go to the grocery store the day after Thanksgiving – the GROCERY STORE – and they are playing Christmas carols, it’s very hard to feel good about the Christmas season. A month of this…

  6. 6.

    Lines

    November 29, 2005 at 2:09 pm

    Next year us secularists are going to go after Kwanza! Damn those Kwanzans, how dare they play Kwanza songs right after Thanksgiving.

    I’m going to make them change all the signs from Krazy Kwanza to Happy Holidays, just because I’m a crazy Liberal like that.

  7. 7.

    james richardson

    November 29, 2005 at 2:11 pm

    Bill’s comment smells of desperation to me, like he’s really reaching for stories on his War on Christmas. Does he really realize what he’s saying? That businesses should use the birth of the Lord to raise up sales, and be happy about it? Is that Bill’s definition of Christmas?

  8. 8.

    srv

    November 29, 2005 at 2:16 pm

    That businesses should use the birth of the Lord to raise up sales, and be happy about it? Is that Bill’s definition of Christmas?

    You know, if Jesus didn’t exist, they’d have to create him.

  9. 9.

    stickler

    November 29, 2005 at 2:36 pm

    Oh, come on. Didn’t Jesus go into the temple and congratulate the money-changers? Or something like that. Bill’s just channeling his New Testament.

  10. 10.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 2:39 pm

    Thank God for Bill O’Reilly. The media almost never reports on the *good news* about the birth of Jesus Christ.

    Not to quibble with man upstairs: but I think the effect on the economy would have been better if He had sent His only son to die a little longer after Thanksgiving. But I guess nobody’s perfect.

  11. 11.

    searp

    November 29, 2005 at 2:41 pm

    I wish it amazed me that a man of O’Reilly’s stature became a major talking head, but I listened to Rush once for about five minutes.

  12. 12.

    Krista

    November 29, 2005 at 2:43 pm

    Stop being oversensitive and make the season what you want it to be within your own circle of friends and family.

    THANK you! Besides, modern-day Christmas in our society is already a bastardized mix of 1/4 Christianity, 1/4 Pagan, 1/4 folklore (Santa Claus, Dickens, etc.), and 1/4 commercialism. For some people, Christmas is about Christ; for some people, it’s about the gifts; for some, it’s about spending time with your loved ones and reflecting on the year that’s passed (I fall into that category). So what if the public face of Christmas is changing? It’s been changing and evolving since the start. I know some very religious Christians who still will not put up a Christmas tree, becuase they feel that it is a pagan symbol that has nothing to do with Christ. Is that what everybody wants?

    Traditions evolve. That is natural. When you were little, you might have spent every Christmas Eve at your grandmother’s, but now that you’re married with kids of your own, everybody comes to your place. Or not. As new people are integrated into a family, it is natural that our traditions will also evolve so as to include these newcomers. It doesn’t mean that we are turning our backs on our past — it means that we are taking the things that are most important to us from our past, and bringing it into our future. We could shut newcomers out from our traditions, and kick and scream and insist that we keep things the way that they always have been — but change has a way of happening whether you like it or not. So, you either adapt and find a way to bring your old traditions forward into new times, or you don’t adapt, and eventually the tradition dies with you.

  13. 13.

    slightlybad

    November 29, 2005 at 2:44 pm

    This whole “war on Christmas” thing is driving me nuts. I had a long business trip yesterday, so I listened to a lot of talk radio. Every program had people calling in bitching about Lowes having a sign for “holiday trees”. They’re trying to take the Christ out of Christmas, blah, blah. I wanted to call them up and point out that Christmas trees are actually an adoption of the pagan winter solstice customs, but I didn’t want to waste cell minutes on people that are just looking for something to get bent out of shape about. I mean, I don’t remember Jesus talking about how his birth should be celebrated with a fake pine tree and some K-Mart lights.

    The ultimate was listening to some of Hannity’s show (I don’t know why I do it to myself). You’ve got Hannity, some ACLUish type arguing that a Christmas (er, holiday) tree at the courthouse is the first step towards establishing Iranian-style theocracy, and some fundamentalist preacher arguing that NOT having such a tree is the first step towards establishing a North Korean style government. The best thing that could have happened was for Al Qaeda to crash a plane into the studio. Result: dead Al Qaeda members and the collective IQ of the country would have risen by 10 points. Dear Santa…

  14. 14.

    cd6

    November 29, 2005 at 2:47 pm

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I want to just fall to my knees and thank Jesus that Bill OReilly’s Christmas store has such great items at such great prices!

    All my friends and family are getting these sweet “Stop the Spin!” bumper stickers shaped like stop signs

    Hooray for Christmas!

  15. 15.

    SeesThroughIt

    November 29, 2005 at 2:49 pm

    The best thing that could have happened was for Al Qaeda to crash a plane into the studio. Result: dead Al Qaeda members and the collective IQ of the country would have risen by 10 points. Dear Santa…

    Believe me, that’s been on my wish list for years, but neither Santa nor his only begotten son, Jesus, seems to be listening.

  16. 16.

    rilkefan

    November 29, 2005 at 2:50 pm

    I’m waiting for Bill to sell all his goods and give to the poor and follow Christ.

  17. 17.

    slightlybad

    November 29, 2005 at 2:53 pm

    One more thing: maybe if someone would send O’Reilly some “adult toys” and a subscription to a 1-900 service for Christmas, he would shut up and leave all of us (and his staff) alone for a few days.

  18. 18.

    Horshu

    November 29, 2005 at 2:58 pm

    “This whole ‘war on Christmas’ thing is driving me nuts.”

    I think the general tendency to frame social issues as “The War on XXXXXX” is disturbing in and of itself. In my lifetime, I can name (just off the top of my head): The War on Poverty, The War on Drugs, The War on Christmas, The War on Easter, The War on Illiteracy, The Culture War, and the War on Hunger.
    And the ironic thing is, the last *official* declaration of war by the US was WWII, with every other conflict since then arising via authorizations of force. It’s difficult to really understand what war is any more.

  19. 19.

    jaime

    November 29, 2005 at 2:59 pm

    Every company in America should be on its knees thanking Jesus for being born.

    Saul from Schwartz’s Glatt Kosher Deli might disagree.

  20. 20.

    Pb

    November 29, 2005 at 3:12 pm

    When will you liberal pinheads learn that Bill O’Reilly was talking about the other Jesus — the philanthropic capitalist, not the poor wuss…

  21. 21.

    cd6

    November 29, 2005 at 3:13 pm

    Saul from Schwartz’s Glatt Kosher Deli might disagree.

    Yes, but if he devoted his spare time to selling “Bill OReilly is a douche” merchandise, he’d be rolling in the cash

  22. 22.

    John S.

    November 29, 2005 at 3:13 pm

    Fine point, but I disagree with this push to celebrate the secularization of presumably highly-holy holidays, esp by people who are presumably religious themselves. Wouldn’t Jesus freak out over something like that?

    I hate to point this out, but Christmas has a lot more to do with pagan festivals than it does with Jesus. Christians who have actually read their Bible would know this, and therefore would have no qualms about secularizing something that really isn’t based on their religion.

  23. 23.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 3:15 pm

    Pb, I think he actually meant the Jesus who was the son of noted cartoon balloon salesman Levon.

  24. 24.

    jaime

    November 29, 2005 at 3:15 pm

    …or the Jesus from the Big Lebowski.

  25. 25.

    Otto Man

    November 29, 2005 at 3:19 pm

    No, no. You people have it all wrong.

    This is the one true Christ.

  26. 26.

    Davebo

    November 29, 2005 at 3:34 pm

    WorldNetDaily breaks this story:

    ‘Holiday’ hypocrisy hits Fox News?

    Fox News, the media company whose hosts have staunchly defended the public use of the word “Christmas,” is raising eyebrows after posting a story on its website with the headline, “Holiday Trees Arrive at Capitol, White House.”

    The story written by FoxNews.com starts off with its lead sentence reading: “Two of the nation’s three branches of government were adorning themselves with more branches Monday as holiday trees were delivered to the Capitol and the White House.”

    […]

    When Reuters issued its version of the story, it used the headline, “White House Christmas tree arrives.”

    An Associated Press story was titled, “Christmas Season Begins at White House.”

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47623

  27. 27.

    John Gillnitz

    November 29, 2005 at 3:46 pm

    Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    -O’Reilly’s little cock-shaped vibrator. Maybe Santa will bring him a fresh case of double AAs and a quart of Astroglide.

  28. 28.

    Steve S

    November 29, 2005 at 3:51 pm

    This new push by Republican imbeciles to further commercialize Christmas(see John gibson’s book claiming Christmas is under attack because stores don’t play enough Christmas music)… Uhh, hello? But since when was commercialization the primary component of Christmas?

    It’s not. It has nothing to do with Religion. This bullshit is all about pushing people to spend even more money at Christmas time.

    So you know… O’Reilly may be an imbecile, and he may be a moron like most of the GOP. But he is at least being honest, even if it is for entirely the wrong reasons.

  29. 29.

    Jim Allen

    November 29, 2005 at 3:53 pm

    DougJ — re:”Not to quibble with man upstairs: but I think the effect on the economy would have been better if He had sent His only son to die a little longer after Thanksgiving.”

    You’re confusing two entirely different holidays. Santa Claus brought the bottles of Coke to the manger after Thanksgiving, when His only son was *born*. When he died, the Easter bunny rolled the stone away from the tomb and planted chocolate eggs inside.

  30. 30.

    Faux News

    November 29, 2005 at 3:55 pm

    What Would Jesus Buy?

    For his own birthday no less! Which was a pagan solstice holiday (hence the “yule log”).

    This is getting complicated. What about Valentine’s day vis a vis Christianity? Should the chocolate companies thank God for Jesus and St. Valentines?

  31. 31.

    Steve S

    November 29, 2005 at 3:57 pm

    CHRISTMAS IS UNDER ATTACK!

    This year they had Christmas decorations out before Halloween.

    It’s not a WAR! It’s a Police Action!

  32. 32.

    Marcus Wellby

    November 29, 2005 at 4:24 pm

    If you don’t buy Bill’s shitty merchandise, Al Qaeda will fly planes into Santa’s village. Its a fact, people! You godless heathens…

  33. 33.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 5:02 pm

    Wouldn’t Jesus freak out over something like that?

    I dunno Jesus always seemed pretty laid back to me.

    On another note, whenever I see the world “secularization” I have to shake my head a little. Are we forgetting that the United States Constitution is a secular document?

  34. 34.

    Lines

    November 29, 2005 at 5:11 pm

    DV, havn’t you ever heard Bill or Hannity turning circles trying to explain how the secularism inherent in the Constitution only applies to Governments influence in church business? They want to claim that churches can still have full influence and effect in government. Thats how they get away with this whole “war on Christmas” charge. Since America is predominantly Christian, and ALL Christians believe the same thing about Christmas, its evident that there is a war on Christmas, or something along those twisted lines.

  35. 35.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 5:13 pm

    What Would Jesus Buy?

    What *wouldn’t* Jesus buy? That guy was a slave to consumerism and credit card debt. At least that’s what the bible tells us.

  36. 36.

    Frank

    November 29, 2005 at 5:25 pm

    props to Jim Allen. I am afraid this did permanent damage to my lungs: “When he died, the Easter bunny rolled the stone away from the tomb and planted chocolate eggs inside.”

  37. 37.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 5:36 pm

    What about all the holidays that aren’t being destroyed by the extreme left? How come we never hear about those? Easter, Fourth of July, Veteran’s Day, Thanksgiving. The extreme secular left seems to like those holidays. Why do we never hear about that?

  38. 38.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 5:38 pm

    Geez, the guy was just making some satire. You all need to lighten up.

  39. 39.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 5:41 pm

    Scs, a lot of people don’t know that Bill O’Reilly, like me, is a centrist who likes to ape right-wing talking points to get a rise out of people.

    Bill O’Reilly, so misunderstood.

  40. 40.

    ATS

    November 29, 2005 at 5:43 pm

    From my experience, nearly all of those who “attack” Christmas are atheist, Jewish or both. Given that the latter are less than 1.8% of the population, and the former only slightly more numerous, one can sympathize with their feeling excluded for a month every year.
    They ally themselves with those of us who have nothing against Christmas, but draw the line at the 44th rendition of the “Little Drummer Boy.”
    What is more interesting, though I live in Washington near the World Bank and IMF, I have never heard a muslim complain about Christmas. Ditto for Asians.

  41. 41.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 5:46 pm

    First of all, everyone needs to remember, including Bill, that most of what we celebrate of Christmas is really a pagan holiday celebrated by the ancient Germanic tribes to mark the winter solstice. The gift giving and the tree was a, perhaps Holy Roman Empire?, anyway, early, compromise to fold in the pagan traditions with the Christian demands. So when we talk about the War on Christmas, and calling a Christmas Tree a Holiday Tree, we are really talking about a war not on Christians but on the ancient Germanic pagans. Darn. Pagans have no rights anymore.

  42. 42.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 5:48 pm

    From my experience, nearly all of those who “attack” Christmas

    From my experience, anyone who thinks people are “attacking” Christmas are delusional Christians who have absolutely no idea that the US is founded on a secular constitution.

  43. 43.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 5:48 pm

    Bill O’Reilly, so misunderstood.

    You know, I really think the guy is. Poor fellow.

  44. 44.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 5:48 pm

    I’m glad someone finally brought this up, ATS. It’s all very well and good to talk about the war against Xmas but it’s *high time we decided which groups to blame.*

    What do you think, ATS? Maybe internment camps for the atheists, at least until the War on Christmas is over? The Anti-Defamation league will freak out if someone suggests doing that with Jewish Americans, so maybe we just put them under house arrest for the month of December each year.

    I’ll email Michelle Malkin see what she thinks about this.

  45. 45.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 5:51 pm

    the US is founded on a secular constitution.

    Well that is true. However, Christmas, as Bill points out often, is a FEDERAL HOLDIDAY, voted on by Congress many years ago. We are honouring the man’s life and teachings, just as we honor Washington and Martin Luther King. This honour can be separated from the religion. So, then it follows, granted that the National Holiday is called “Christmas”, we should be able to say “Merry Christmas”.

  46. 46.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 5:53 pm

    What do you think, scs? You’ve got to be pro-internment for the atheists. Don’t tell me you’ve gone soft in the global struggle against Godlessness.

  47. 47.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 5:55 pm

    You’ve got to be pro-internment for the atheists

    Yes. Whatever happened to those baracks we put the Japanese in WWII? Let’s dust them off and put them to good use again.

  48. 48.

    DougJ

    November 29, 2005 at 6:00 pm

    Whatever happened to those baracks we put the Japanese in WWII? Let’s dust them off and put them to good use again.

    I think we’re torturing terror suspects in them right now.

  49. 49.

    tzs

    November 29, 2005 at 6:02 pm

    Nah, let’s get back to the *real* old-fashioned holiday traditions and BURN THE CHRISTIANS.

    (Seen on a MIT Pillar Poster way way back….)

    Wicker cages, anyone?

  50. 50.

    Steve S

    November 29, 2005 at 6:09 pm

    So, then it follows, granted that the National Holiday is called “Christmas”, we should be able to say “Merry Christmas”.

    Uhh, like who is stopping you?

    I don’t have a whole lot of fucking sympathy for the wingnuts whining about Christmas. I used to belong to the Jaycees here in town and we’d do a Halloween haunted house thing each year for the kids, along with a fire and marshmallow roasting and such.

    Then one year the school said we couldn’t advertise our haunted house there, because they’d gotten complaints from the parents about worshipping a pagan holiday.

    The reason they’re whining about a War against Christmas, is because they themselves launched a War against Halloween.

  51. 51.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 6:11 pm

    The reason they’re whining about a War against Christmas, is because they themselves launched a War against Halloween.

    That’s true. I say, let’s worship them all. More holidays, more parties.

  52. 52.

    jg

    November 29, 2005 at 6:14 pm

    So, then it follows, granted that the National Holiday is called “Christmas”, we should be able to say “Merry Christmas”.

    On Christmas day I say Merry Christmas. Any day before or after and its dumb to say Merry Christmas. Since there are like 40 holidays between Thanksgiving and the new year whats improper about saying Happy Holidays? Why isn’t any screaming about the attack on Kwanzaa or Hanakuh? Are they under just as much imaginary ‘attack’ as Christmas?

  53. 53.

    scs

    November 29, 2005 at 6:17 pm

    On Christmas day I say Merry Christmas

    I guess that sounds fair. They did stretch out the whole Christmas season to start before Halloween. However, I do think a Christmas tree should be called a Christmas tree, since no other religion (except for Norse mythology of course) uses it as part of their religion. It would be like calling a Menorrah (sp?) a “Holiday Candlelabra” on store signs.

  54. 54.

    jaime

    November 29, 2005 at 6:27 pm

    What does a Christmas tree have to do with Jesus’ birth again?

  55. 55.

    jg

    November 29, 2005 at 6:32 pm

    What does a Christmas tree have to do with Jesus’ birth again?

    Nothing but it also has nothing to do with any other celebration this time of year so how can it be a holiday tree? Do people who don’t celebrate Christmas put up trees?

  56. 56.

    JWeidner

    November 29, 2005 at 6:35 pm

    It would be like calling a Menorrah (sp?) a “Holiday Candlelabra” on store signs.

    Awesome. I’m all over it. I’ve got the ACLU on the line right now and I’m registering my outrage that my local Wal-Mart can display such patently religious artifacts.

    Seriously though. I wonder how large a shitstorm would occur if we all did like the Christians wanted and celebrated the actual meaning of Christmas. That means no presents, no tree, nothing but going to church and listening and reflecting on the life of Jesus with our family.

    Given that almost every retailer calls the Friday after Thanksgiving “Black Friday” because it marks the time of year that they finally start to turn a profit (go into the black); if all the gift-giving just plain stopped one year, there would be outrage and much handwringing over how to bring the commercialization back to the holiday.

    Face it. The secular aspect of this holiday is a major factor in keeping the economy of this country on it’s feet. If all the retailers lost the profit that came with this season, and finished each year in debt, everyone would be freaking out.

  57. 57.

    JWeidner

    November 29, 2005 at 6:37 pm

    I should note that I don’t think my post above is reason to bring “Merry Christmas” back into the public lexicon…just that those screaming about the secularization of the season probably would be clamoring for it if the situation were reversed.

  58. 58.

    Ancient Purple

    November 29, 2005 at 6:41 pm

    Jesus the Capitalist.

    Blessed are the Cheesemakers.

  59. 59.

    Steve

    November 29, 2005 at 6:42 pm

    Like many others, I grew up in a nominally Jewish household where we had a Christmas tree every year. The standard line is to refer to it as the “Hannukah bush.”

  60. 60.

    Otto Man

    November 29, 2005 at 6:43 pm

    We are honouring the man’s life and teachings, just as we honor Washington and Martin Luther King. This honour can be separated from the religion.

    If you keep spelling honor with a “u,” the president will have you deported.

  61. 61.

    Steve S

    November 29, 2005 at 6:54 pm

    Happy Kwanzakuhmas everybody!

    OttoMan – Good point. If you want to use ‘u’ in color or honor, move to bloody England!

    Cheers!

  62. 62.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 7:46 pm

    Awesome. I’m all over it. I’ve got the ACLU on the line right now and I’m registering my outrage that my local Wal-Mart can display such patently religious artifacts.

    I think it should be noted that even the ACLU, who nutjobs accuse of attacking Christians and Christmas, have gone on record as saying calling it a “Christmas Tree” is just fine.

  63. 63.

    John S.

    November 29, 2005 at 8:21 pm

    If you want to use ‘u’ in color or honor, move to bloody England!

    Hey, I’m not down with that programme.

  64. 64.

    ppGaz

    November 29, 2005 at 8:33 pm

    Given that almost every retailer calls the Friday after Thanksgiving “Black Friday” because it marks the time of year that they finally start to turn a profit (go into the black); if all the gift-giving just plain stopped one year, there would be outrage and much handwringing over how to bring the commercialization back to the holiday.

    Actually, what there would be is a frigging recession.

    So let’s not try that experiment.

  65. 65.

    ppGaz

    November 29, 2005 at 8:35 pm

    think we’re torturing terror suspects in them right now.

    Uh, nope. I live out here within an easy drive of several of those camp sites …. the barracks are long gone.

    That includes the camps in Arizona and California whose sites I have visited.

    Is anyone aware of internment barracks that still stand?

  66. 66.

    ppGaz

    November 29, 2005 at 8:38 pm

    I didn’t want to waste cell minutes on people that are just looking for something to get bent out of shape about. I mean, I don’t remember Jesus talking about how his birth should be celebrated with a fake pine tree and some K-Mart lights

    Thank you for writing that. Wonderful. It’s my post of the year nominee.

  67. 67.

    ubernerd83

    November 29, 2005 at 8:40 pm

    “Nobody fucks with the Jesus.”

    (Gotta love the Coen brothers.)

  68. 68.

    ppGaz

    November 29, 2005 at 8:51 pm

    “Nobody fucks with the Jesus.”

    Oh god, the Big Lebowski. One of my most-favorite movies of all time.

    Turturro was …. wonderful. Hell, everybody was wonderful in that movie.

  69. 69.

    John S.

    November 29, 2005 at 9:03 pm

    Eight year olds, dude.

  70. 70.

    Otto Man

    November 29, 2005 at 9:19 pm

    Eight year olds, dude.

    Well played.

  71. 71.

    Otto Man

    November 29, 2005 at 9:23 pm

    Is anyone aware of internment barracks that still stand?

    Manzanar is a National Historic Site. Some of the buildings are still standing, others have been restored. The barracks, though, seem to be gone except for the foundations.

  72. 72.

    ppGaz

    November 29, 2005 at 9:32 pm

    The barracks, though, seem to be gone except for the foundations.

    Every site I have seen has only the foundation slabs where the barracks were, even though other structures may be present or partially standing. I am not sure why this is. Some trouble was taken to clean up these sites; the barracks didn’t fall down, they were razed and the debris removed.

  73. 73.

    chef

    November 29, 2005 at 10:47 pm

    “From my experience, anyone who thinks people are “attacking” Christmas are delusional Christians who have absolutely no idea that the US is founded on a secular constitution.”

    I don’t suffer from the delusion that the founding fathers were ephors from the Athenian Academy, but the the US wasn’t founded by secularists but rather advocates of tolerance of OTHER religions (and a few deists).
    I am an atheist but I concede the guys in whigs were Christians, and ATS is right that the anti-Christmas movement is overwhelmingly Jewish and/or atheist. He is also right is saying that this is a very small, very vocal segment of the US population. 1.8% may be generous.

  74. 74.

    ats

    November 29, 2005 at 10:59 pm

    I have been missinterpreted here, and not for the first time.
    I don’t like O Reilly at all, and suspect Christmas is a cheap, phony issue for him, like burning the flag.

    As for Jewish reservations about the Christmas holiday, I would be more sympathetic if Christians were treated better in Jerusalem and Bethlehem, where the Jews rule. Hey, there is a REASON the Vatican does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    Christmas celebrates the birth of someone who was, at the very least, a nice guy. What is the friggin’ problem? Oddly, the muslim Arabs seem to understand that better than the Jews. That was my point.

  75. 75.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 11:10 pm

    I don’t suffer from the delusion that the founding fathers were ephors from the Athenian Academy, but the the US wasn’t founded by secularists but rather advocates of tolerance of OTHER religions (and a few deists).

    The Constitution is a secular document. I suggest you read it sometime.

    And I would argue that a great many founding fathers–at least the most notable ones–were “secularists”…

    secularist

    n : an advocate of secularism; someone who believes that religion should be excluded from government and education

    I am an atheist but I concede the guys in whigs were Christians, and ATS is right that the anti-Christmas movement is overwhelmingly Jewish and/or atheist. He is also right is saying that this is a very small, very vocal segment of the US population. 1.8% may be generous.

    Check your facts. Atheists alone make up more than 1.8% of the population. I’m not even an atheist and I know this stuff.

    You might be an atheist but I’d venture a guess as you didn’t come to your beliefs through logic, as your skills in such are obviously lacking. I suggest you visit the site I linked to above and this site, as well.

  76. 76.

    ats

    November 29, 2005 at 11:19 pm

    “You might be an atheist but I’d venture a guess as you didn’t come to your beliefs through logic, as your skills in such are obviously lacking.”

    I came to me beliefs through 8 years in Jesuit schools, where logic was a required course. I became an atheist through Nietzsche, who sprinkled Bildungsphilisters like you on his cornflakes.

  77. 77.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 11:27 pm

    Hmmm ATS…did you know that I wasn’t talking to you or is it that you and “chef” are one in the same?

    Odd that you posted right after him and also addressed comments that were directed at “him”. Afterall, I had no idea that YOU were an atheist as you never mentioned that until responding to my comments to chef. What a coincidence that both you and chef agree on so much and both just happen to be atheists…

    Somebody’s got some ‘splaining to do!

  78. 78.

    chef

    November 29, 2005 at 11:28 pm

    “Check your facts.”

    Gee, I can almost hear Rush rattling the paper “documentation” against the microphone. As if there are never documents subject to interpretation, and documents compromised by conflicting documents.

    I note that ATS said he didn’t think the founding fathers were gods. I look forward to Disenfranchised Voter proving the contrary, via miracles and fingertip relics. Oops, gotta go–Hurricane Gamma just changed directions.

  79. 79.

    chef

    November 29, 2005 at 11:34 pm

    ” is it that you and “chef” are one in the same?”

    We are all one in the eyes of god, but I could never spell Nietsche, er Nitzsce. er . . .

  80. 80.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 11:45 pm

    Hey chef…I told you your skills in logic were obviously lacking. Didn’t think to change your name back to “chef” did ya, ats?

    You see, I figured this out throught my skils in logic.

    Trust me, I know you and ATS are one in the same.

  81. 81.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    November 29, 2005 at 11:45 pm

    through*

  82. 82.

    scs

    November 30, 2005 at 12:09 am

    If you want to use ‘u’ in color or honor, move to bloody England!

    You know, I have embraced my inner Continental, so I have stopped fighting the habit to use honour, colour, realise, develope. I used to wonder why I could never spell some words correctly, like ‘realise’ until I started reading The Economist lately. I used to read a lot of British books as a child so my spelling habits were formed then. Besides, I think “colour” looks prettier than “color”.

  83. 83.

    Steve S

    November 30, 2005 at 12:44 am

    scs – I suppose you stand in a queue, and you mind your step too!

    Just joshing on ya. I spent 3 months in England last fall. It’s not so bad. :-)

  84. 84.

    HH

    November 30, 2005 at 4:28 am

    “I just don’t like homosexuals. If you ask me, they’re all homosexuals in the Pudding. Hey, I was glad when that Pudding homosexual got killed in Philadelphia.” – Al Franken

  85. 85.

    Jim Allen

    November 30, 2005 at 8:13 am

    I’m still waiting for K-Mart and Wal-Mart to acknowledge all of us consumers who are agnostics and start selling big lighted question marks for our front lawns.

  86. 86.

    Krista

    November 30, 2005 at 8:15 am

    Good point. If you want to use ‘u’ in color or honor, move to bloody England!

    Or save yourself the airfare and move to Canada. We still use the Brit spellings in a lot of our words. And I’m with you, scs, I think “colour” and “favour” do look a lot more elegant than “color” and “favor”.

  87. 87.

    Krista

    November 30, 2005 at 8:17 am

    I’m still waiting for K-Mart and Wal-Mart to acknowledge all of us consumers who are agnostics and start selling big lighted question marks for our front lawns.

    Good thing I had already swallowed my coffee when I read that. Nicely played.

    I usually put up stuff like snowmen and snowflakes as my holiday decorations. I don’t put up religious stuff, ’cause I’d feel like a hypocrite. Besides, snowmen and snowflakes are more “winter”-y than “Christmas”-y, so I feel that it gives me license to keep my decorations up a bit longer.

  88. 88.

    Otto Man

    November 30, 2005 at 8:48 am

    Every site I have seen has only the foundation slabs where the barracks were, even though other structures may be present or partially standing. I am not sure why this is. Some trouble was taken to clean up these sites; the barracks didn’t fall down, they were razed and the debris removed.

    The barracks were torn down for the same reason we stopped calling them “concentration camps” — the comparisons with Germany were just a little too easy to make. I suspect the WRA had the barracks demolished just to remove the sight.

  89. 89.

    mitch

    November 30, 2005 at 8:52 am

    Actually Saul is standing around his cash register on December 24th and, along with his deli employees, is singing…”Oh what a friend we have in Jesus.”

  90. 90.

    jack

    November 30, 2005 at 12:51 pm

    Bill O’Reilly is an ass.

    True enough. And I don’t care about putting Christ anywhere–never mind in Christmas. The Christians tried to eliminate this celebration–failing, they co-opted it.

    That being said, there is something annoying about this.

    The Post Office, an official branch of the US Government, as we are reminded in Miracle on 34th Street, sells a Kwanzaa stamp, and a Chanukah stamp–the sign even says so. But it doesn’t sell a Christmas stamp. In it’s place, and clearly designed to BE a Christmas stamp, is a ‘Madonna and Child’ stamp–and it says that on the sign. Why?

    I don’t mind the ‘Happy Holidays’ stuff…unless it’s enforced in such a way that the only holiday name ‘officially’ omitted is Christmas.

    Frankly, I still fail to see why we have to omit anything to keep from offending. How do good wishes for the season offend–even if you ARE a rabid Christian and the Jewsish guy down the street says Happy Chanukah?

    And, a reasonable person HAS to admit that some of the ways we try to be inoffensive are just silly–‘holiday trees’? Come on. The Chanukah bush died a much toasted death in the early 80’s, Kwanzaa doesn’t use a tree. Eid? Tet? There ARE no ‘holiday trees’–they’re Christmas trees, used by those celebrating the quasi-Christian pagan holiday that’s become known as Christmas.

    Try this. Say whatever greeting of the season you like–and don’t let some asinine authority tell you that YOUR holiday well wishes or decorations are somehow offensive.

    And if someone IS offended by your ‘Merry Christmas’, ‘Happy Chanukah’, or even ‘Good Yule’, there’s another, more universal greeting already provided for people like that–‘Fuck You’

    A very Merry Christmas to you all, and may all your holidays, whatever they may be, be filled with joy.

  91. 91.

    Don

    November 30, 2005 at 2:11 pm

    The Post Office, an official branch of the US Government, as we are reminded in Miracle on 34th Street, sells a Kwanzaa stamp, and a Chanukah stamp—the sign even says so. But it doesn’t sell a Christmas stamp. In it’s place, and clearly designed to BE a Christmas stamp, is a ‘Madonna and Child’ stamp—and it says that on the sign. Why?

    Jeez, isn’t that even more religious than a tree? What’s to be irked about? I can’t speak about Kwanzaa but rather than the menorah (which would evoke the core story of the holiday) on the chanukah stamp they have a stupid dredel, an item associated with the holiday but absent any real religious meaning. The Madonna? A little more significant. Seems like if anyone is getting the shaft here it’s not the real meaning of Christmas.

    Perhaps the USPS will go with some of these alternatives in the future.

  92. 92.

    jack

    November 30, 2005 at 2:16 pm

    Don, it’s not the religious nature of the sybology, it’s the fact that they don’t call it a CHRISTMAS stamp. That’s the problem.

  93. 93.

    Jim Allen

    November 30, 2005 at 3:19 pm

    Re: “[I]t’s the fact that they don’t call it a CHRISTMAS stamp. That’s the problem.”

    Actually, it’s a POSTAGE stamp. No problem.

  94. 94.

    jack

    November 30, 2005 at 4:12 pm

    Jim, they have a Kwanzaa POSTAGE stamp, a Chanukah POSTAGE stamp, but they have nothing they call a Christmas POSTAGE stamp. Happy?

    Again, the problem is not with the stamps or their designs, it’s with the fact that only one holiday name is deliberately omitted(do I need to say POSTAGE again?).

  95. 95.

    Jim Allen

    December 1, 2005 at 3:46 pm

    Jack, here’s some hints for you.

    If it has a picture of Madonna and Child, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has a Christmas tree, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has pictures of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has pictures of ornaments, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has a picture of Santa Claus, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has pictures of gaily-wrapped presents, particularly wrapped in any combination of red, green, gold and/or silver, it’s probably a Christmas stamp.

    If it makes you feel better, buy whichever ones float your boat, and write “This is a Christmas stamp!” on the envelope, with a little arrow pointing to the stamp, just so your recipients get the message.

    Then sit back, have one or two of your favorite adult beverages, and get a freakin’ grip.

  96. 96.

    jack

    December 5, 2005 at 4:59 pm

    See Jim, that neuron is coming so close to firing it must be killing you.

    “If it has a picture of Madonna and Child, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has a Christmas tree, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has pictures of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has pictures of ornaments, it’s a Christmas stamp.

    If it has a picture of Santa Claus, it’s a Christmas stamp.”

    Then why, in the name of all the gods, can’t they CALL it a Christmas stamp? Why is that one holiday the one that Happy Holidays always seems to replace? Why, if you’ll sell Christmas ornamests, Christmas cards, Christmas trees, Christmas cookies and stupid dancing Santas that sing Christmas carols, why, oh why, can you say Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa and whatever OTHER holiday name rears it’s snow covered head inor around December, but you can’t just say Merry Christmas to the people buying all the Christmas crap? You think you’re gonna offend them?

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