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You are here: Home / Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?

by Tim F|  April 5, 20067:49 am| 191 Comments

This post is in: General Stupidity

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Apparently the Polk County Sherriff’s office:

The deputy press secretary for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has been arrested on sex charges stemming from a Florida-based Internet sting, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said on Tuesday.

…”[Brian Doyle] was on his computer communicating with the undercover detective who he believed to be a 14-year-old girl at the time we knocked on his door in Maryland, took him into custody and served a search warrant,” Judd said in an interview on CNN.

…”What stands out to me the most in this particular case was the fact that Brian, on his first conversation with our undercover detective, who he believed to be a 14-year-old girl, clearly identified himself as a deputy press secretary for Homeland Security,” Judd told CNN.

This story does not seem to have much in the way of political relevance other than the amazing utility of the internets as a tool for both pedophiles and the people trying to catch them. It would be more amusing if the Sherriff’s office used certain provisions of the USA PATRIOT act against the accused, but as of now I have no idea whether that is the case.

***Update***

Aravosis characteristically asks, “Do these people vet ANYBODY? ” Get real, John. People don’t put ‘pedophile’ on their resume.

However, I still cannot wrap my mind around how eager this guy was to show his credentials to a “14-year-old-girl” over the internet. When I try to tease apart the layers of pathological stupidity involved in doing something like that it just gives me a headache.

***Update 2***

Christy Hardin Smith has prosecuted a number of pedophilia cases so her post at Firedoglake should be the definitive read for now. She also believes that a background check would have turned something up, but that seems unlikely to me unless Doyle had prior convictions or underage relatives willing to spill unpleasant secrets to a stranger with a badge.

She also catches this:

Another Homeland Security official — Frank Figueroa, special agent in charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Tampa — faces trial this week on charges of exposing himself to a teenage girl last year at a mall. Figueroa, who has been suspended, pleaded not guilty.

Two anecdotes don’t make a trend, but it’s a surprising juxtaposition.

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Reader Interactions

191Comments

  1. 1.

    Barry

    April 5, 2006 at 7:57 am

    “This story does not seem to have much in the way of political relevance other than the amazing utility of the internets as a tool for both pedophiles and the people trying to catch them.”

    I’d count mind-boggling stupidity as a political issue, except that this *is* the Bush administration.

  2. 2.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 8:13 am

    Okay, I am NOT going to fashion a joke out of “No child left behind.”

    That would be in bad taste, and like Star Kist, I appreciate only good taste.

  3. 3.

    Pb

    April 5, 2006 at 8:20 am

    You know, I’m not surprised, but…

    “He was on his computer communicating with the undercover detective who he believed to be a 14-year-old girl at the time we knocked on his door in Maryland, took him into custody and served a search warrant,”

    Although I get the idea, technically speaking, I’m still not clear precisely what ‘crime’–besides entrapment–is being committed. And doesn’t everyone know by now that most women on the internet are men, and all 14-year-old girls on the internet are feds? He must have been a newbie.

    But what I’m really waiting for is when *two* undercover detectives try to arrest each other. I guess the fake 14-year-old girls never go after the fake 14-year-old boys? Or maybe they settle that stuff internally and it never gets out to the press.

  4. 4.

    Tim F.

    April 5, 2006 at 8:25 am

    I’m still not clear precisely what ‘crime’—besides entrapment—is being committed.

    It’s basically the same sting as a cop posing as a prostitute and waiting to be solicited – the cop joins a My Little Pony chatroom and hangs around looking innocent until some perv contacts “her.” I believe that it would become entrapment, on the other hand, if the cops started actively contacting people about being fourteen and hawt for grownup phone sex.

  5. 5.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 8:26 am

    I’m sorry, where is that My Little Pony chat room again?

  6. 6.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 8:27 am

    Some lefty sites were decrying this as another Bush appointee gone wrong. I’m not going to try and tie this guy to hard to Bush, as I am sure he doesn’t personally pick the Deputy Secretary for Public Affairs for Homeland Security or whatever the hell this guy was, but you can direct your questions and pointed fingers to Chertoff if you like…

    As far as “Doylie” himself, he was obviously doing a heck of a job. Anyone dumb enough to do this stuff from work, using his office phone, official cell phone, and pictures of himself as well as identifying himself by his job title falls short of even Arabian Horse Council qualifications.

  7. 7.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 8:28 am

    pp-

    LOL

  8. 8.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 8:29 am

    I hear Catherine the Great loved that chat room…

  9. 9.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 8:34 am

    Sad. All around.

  10. 10.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 8:34 am

    I hear Catherine the Great loved that chat room…

    Oh great, now I have to think up a new handle ….

  11. 11.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 8:40 am

    Mr. Doyle is the Milton Berle of Homeland Security.

    On the occasion of Mr. Berle’s 80th birthday, when asked how he felt:

    Berle: I feel like a 17-year-old. Unfortunately, at my age, it’s impossible to get a 17-year-old.

  12. 12.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 8:53 am

    We’ve turned the corner on child pornography in the Department of Homeland Security.

  13. 13.

    The Other Steve

    April 5, 2006 at 8:55 am

    What’s dissappointing to me is how all the righty bloggers are defending this pedophile.

  14. 14.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 8:55 am

    This story does not seem to have much in the way of political relevance

    If this had happened under Clinton, an independent prosecutor would have been named, Rush would have talked about how the guy was really picking up underage girls for the lesbian Hillary, and David Broder would have cited this as further evidence that the Clintons had “trashed the place”.

  15. 15.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 9:01 am

    Wait, who is defending him?

  16. 16.

    Al Maviva

    April 5, 2006 at 9:04 am

    Really Other Steve? Could you point to some righty bloggers definding this guy? I’d be interested in seeing who they are.

  17. 17.

    gratefulcub

    April 5, 2006 at 9:09 am

    First of all, this has nothing to do with Bush. Nada.

    I want to know more about the ‘crime.’ And, more about how widespread this is.

    He was talking dirty to a middle aged woman, not a child. Is the crime his ‘attempt’ to talk to a child? (this is in no way a defense, I am just curious about the legal aspects).

    Secondly, is there a large group of people getting off on dirty talk with kids? We didn’t have chat rooms when I was that age. The entire situation seems so strange to me that I have difficulty imagining it. Who would do it, and what kid would respond? (pedophiles, and I am not blaming the kids)

    And, why are all the serial killers and pedophiles middle aged white men. Are these the crazy thoughts I have to look forward to? I would much rather buy a Porsche.

  18. 18.

    Nikki

    April 5, 2006 at 9:09 am

    What’s dissappointing to me is how all the righty bloggers are defending this pedophile.

    You can’t be serious!

  19. 19.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:18 am

    You can’t be serious!

    We must be nothing if not serious about this subject.

    WE must be vigilant, lest the Al Mavivas of the …. of the uh …. the Al Mavivas of the uh … well anyway, lest people see the Democrats overplaying their hand on this issue.

    That above all is the major concern here, the “Red” level of threat, if you will.

  20. 20.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:22 am

    Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here, people.

    Scs, Stormy, Darrel, Brian, and the American Association of Asshats have not weighed in on this issue yet.

    Let’s step back and take a deep breath.

    We are yet to find out how this “scandal” reflects on Bill Clinton.

  21. 21.

    tBone

    April 5, 2006 at 9:24 am

    And doesn’t everyone know by now that most women on the internet are men, and all 14-year-old girls on the internet are feds?

    What?? You mean scs is actually a Fed?

  22. 22.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:25 am

    Today’s Rush Limbaugh Talking Points:

    Numero Uno: Seduction of children for sex over the internets is a BIPARTISAN issue. Democrats are not innocent here.

    There are reports of photos of Barack Obama kissing babies.

  23. 23.

    The Other Steve

    April 5, 2006 at 9:30 am

    Really Other Steve? Could you point to some righty bloggers definding this guy? I’d be interested in seeing who they are.

    Go look yourself. None of them are talking about it. By not showing sufficient outrage, they are defending this guys activities.

    I checked redstate.com, proteinwisdom, instapundit, powerline, hugh hewitt, blogs for bush.

    Not a one of them have mentioned this and showed sufficient outrage.

    You know, I guess it doesn’t surprise me. Under the first Bush administration there was a big coverup of a child homosexual prostitution ring. Probably the same thing going on here, and the righties are afraid to mention it because of how high up it goes.

  24. 24.

    The Other Steve

    April 5, 2006 at 9:31 am

    I really probably should post under a different ID when I’m trying to parody Brian and SomeGuy. :-)

  25. 25.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:32 am

    Will we hear it on Righty Radio today?

    Cynthia McKinney let her 16-year-old son run around the house with no clothes on.

    Sure, this was fifteen years ago, but the message is clear: Child sexual abuse is not a REPUBLICAN issue.

  26. 26.

    Pb

    April 5, 2006 at 9:35 am

    Tim F.,

    It’s basically the same sting as a cop posing as a prostitute and waiting to be solicited

    So in that case, the charge would be, intent to solicit a prostitute, because although no actual prostitutes were involved, he allegedly had a reasonable belief that the cop in question was a prostitute?

    In the meantime, she could sell you a bag of oregano and get you on drug charges–a twofer!

    P.S. Yes, apparently some states do actually have laws on the books prohibiting the sale of ‘imitation controlled substances’.

  27. 27.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:35 am

    the righties are afraid to mention it because of how high up it goes.

    I must say, that choice of words is in very bad taste. Remember, this is about two things:

    Good taste, because bad taste is overplaying your hand, or at least overusing your hand, and …

    This is NOT about Republicans.

  28. 28.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:37 am

    Steve, I thought you were SomeGuy?

    So, who’s writing him?

  29. 29.

    Pb

    April 5, 2006 at 9:39 am

    tBone,

    What?? You mean scs is actually a Fed?

    Scary, I know…

  30. 30.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 9:40 am

    Cynthia McKinney just hit a nun!

  31. 31.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 9:45 am

    grateful cub, I have wondered how Reichian theories of “sex-economics” plays into all this. Like Orwell’s characters observed of the Big Brother in 1984, fascist states, and aspects of our current situation here in the US are alike, tend to be anti-sexual in order to funnel sexual energy into what the state wants. Here in the U.S. the moral hand of the reactionary Xtians are anti-abortion (having sex without the intention of producing new citizens), anti-birth control, anti-pornography, anti-masturbation, anti-sex education for children, and on and on.

    By far the biggest taboo of our culture is adults having sex with children. I think that everyone feels a knot in their gut when they hear about child molesters. Reichian theory would suggest, I think, that this reaction to molesters is a kind of ultimate “reaction” to sex that reactionary fascism intends to promote. This repugnance towards the sexual is positive for the anti-sexual reactionaries. But child molestation is exactly the kind of thing that you would find in a culture that witholds sex information from children and discourages sexual pleasure for adults. People grow up with infantilized ideas about sex and their “dirty” feelings about sex are frozen in their youth.

    Not that I in any way think it’s in any way proper for adults to be out there seducing children. But I can remember as a fourteen year-old getting these unwanted erections in my high school geometry class looking at my big-breasted, middle-aged teacher. Kids that age are thinking about sex, and yet reactionaries want to deny them knowledge about it. Seems to me this exacerbates the problem of child molestation, both for curious children and for children who grow up into repressed adults.

  32. 32.

    worm eater

    April 5, 2006 at 9:51 am

    In som cases a background check can reveal potential pedophilic behavior even without convictions. For instance, if an applicant has worked many jobs with children (esp. volunteer jobs). However, I unless this guy was working with children at the DHS, I don’t see any reason to look for anything other than actual covictions. I don’t know exactly how the law works, but a few years back when everyone was freaked out about this kind of thing, several laws were passed (like COPA) making it easier to protect children from online dangers.

  33. 33.

    Buddy

    April 5, 2006 at 9:58 am

    This Republican says, if he is guilty, hang him up by his nads in the town square.

  34. 34.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 10:00 am

    Not that I in any way think it’s in any way proper for adults to be out there seducing children. But I can remember as a fourteen year-old getting these unwanted erections in my high school geometry class looking at my big-breasted, middle-aged teacher

    What part of BAD TASTE do you not understand?

    Tim, the thread has to be shut down. People are writing material for Hustler magazine in here now.

    This is what happens when you let Democrats run the country.

    Please let the record show that Bob is writing pornographic material on the Internet.

    Avert your eyes, people!

  35. 35.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 10:03 am

    My wife was a social worker/child therapist in NYC when we lived there, and this topic raises her blood pressure like none other. She believes wholeheartedly that pedophiles are NOT rehabilitatable and deserve the death penalty.

    We all can have fun with this story, but should remember the underlying message that this is serious fucking stuff that has the potential to destroy lives.

    Go read the link to firedoglake, it is both good and important. It’s not Jane Hamsher, so you won’t get in trouble with John.

  36. 36.

    Davebo

    April 5, 2006 at 10:04 am

    You go to war with the pedophiles you have, not the pedophiles you’d like to have.

    Sorry, just couldn’t resist.

    And a previous commenter was correct. Had this happened to a Clinton appointee, well… it would have caused a marked increase in the “slobber level” of the right.

  37. 37.

    tBone

    April 5, 2006 at 10:05 am

    Jeez, it’s always doom and gloom with you libruls. Why can’t you ever talk about the Good News™ regarding solicitation of underage sex on the Internet? Besides, Democrats do it too.

  38. 38.

    Davebo

    April 5, 2006 at 10:06 am

    Obviously Bush didn’t have his glasses on when he looked into some of his appointess souls.

    Perhaps he should make them send video interviews to Bill Frist for examination?

  39. 39.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 10:08 am

    Well actually, Furious, your wife is wrong. Pedophilia is nothing but a preference. Acting on pedophilia is the crime, not pedophilia itself. There is no law against desiring any kind of sex. The law only addresses actions.
    At least, so far, until the police state advocates have completely taken over.

    And, the death penalty? Get serious. I’m a person who was quite profoundly molested as a kid, and I have to tell you, AFAIC that death penalty suggestion, unless it’s just for rhetorical effect, is an insult to intelligence, and isn’t helpful at all. Even if it is for effect, it’s stupid.

    Jesus.

  40. 40.

    StupidityRules

    April 5, 2006 at 10:11 am

    What kind of security clearance did the man have? A man giving away his name and job title to a 14-year-old girl for sexual favors seems like a rather large security risk. A really savy 14-year-old girl (or a 62-year-old man posing as a 14-year-old girl) could probably use that information to make a small fortune.

  41. 41.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 10:14 am

    When are we going to hear the positive things about cronyism?

  42. 42.

    The Other Steve

    April 5, 2006 at 10:18 am

    In som cases a background check can reveal potential pedophilic behavior even without convictions. For instance, if an applicant has worked many jobs with children (esp. volunteer jobs).

    A few years ago while I was doing volunteer stuff with the Jaycees, one of our members got arrested for something related to child porn or pedophilia.(I don’t recall which) In retrospect, there had been signs. Here was a 36 year old single loner man, who always wanted to volunteer on projects dealing with children. Such as haunted house, things like that.

    When I was in high school our Vice Principal was arrested for sexual molestation. He was luring 15 year old girls into his van out in the parking lot by giving them cigarettes. Now in retrospect, I never paid attention, but my English teacher did. We had class right after lunch break, and there was this one girl who always came late and always had a pass from Mr. Ford. I remember one week when this happened and our teacher rolled her eyes, and I thought that was strange. About two weeks later the police busted him.

    What was interesting about that one, is his son was one of my friends. His family was members of our church.(actually come to think of it, so was my english teacher) They stayed in town even after the father went to prison.

    There are signs, but they only make sense in retrospect. I mean, I’ve known others who really liked working with children who weren’t like that. Then again, they were usually married and had kids of their own, etc. Ok, hard to say. Just saying I’m not sure until you’re sure if it’s right to condemn someone.

  43. 43.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 10:20 am

    Mr. Furious, did your wife ever say what causes pedophilia?

    I am always puzzled when people want to kill what they fear and don’t understand. I always thought that having McVeigh in a cell at the beck and call of sociologists to figure out why he did what he did would do more for figuring out how he got to where he did than just snuffing him and then waiting for the next McVeigh.

    I think your wife’s desire for the death penalty for molesters is a reflection of the “sex-economy”-generated fear around the idea of suppressing child sexuality. Don’t you think that sex education for children would be a good way to protect children from molesters, instead of waiting in fear for someone to try to seduce them and then reacting?

  44. 44.

    Some Other Brian Guy

    April 5, 2006 at 10:20 am

    Still, we have not heard proper condemnation of this from the righty blogosphere.

    Why are they condoning this behavior by not condemning it!?

  45. 45.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 10:22 am

    ppGaz, maybe I’ll email you some pix of Mrs. Kleinberg from my yearbook. Hot!

  46. 46.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 10:23 am

    In som cases a background check can reveal potential pedophilic behavior even without convictions. For instance, if an applicant has worked many jobs with children (esp. volunteer jobs).

    So every Big Brothers/Big Sisters volunteer is now a “potential pedophile?”

  47. 47.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 10:23 am

    maybe I’ll email you some pix of Mrs. Kleinberg from my yearbook. Hot!

    Yeah, but it was the unwanted part that I was objecting to.

  48. 48.

    Historical Wit

    April 5, 2006 at 10:24 am

    I must agree, this is neither a Repub/Dem issues, this is a greater problem in society. Pedophilia has grown over the past decade because of how these people can use the net to find what they want, be it underaged girls or boys or straight up drugs. The internet make the world your oyster – good, bad, or otherwise. Pedophiles are not dumb people. Look at most preist that molest the youth in their congregations, they seek out those positions for reasons. Access to what they want, good pay, protection if caught, pretty ugly stuff. Hang him by his balls and let kids throw rottent tomatoes at his pasty white ass…

  49. 49.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 10:27 am

    So the crew-cut guy at the door wearing a Hello Kitty t-shirt and holding a bag of oregano isn’t a fourteen year-old girl wanting to party? Should have guessed something was wrong when I saw the wingtips and black socks.

  50. 50.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 10:30 am

    ppGaz, if you get an erection at the sight of Mrs. Kleinberg, believe me, it will be unwanted.

  51. 51.

    StupidityRules

    April 5, 2006 at 10:32 am

    Don’t forget that it’s only a problem when men does it. Debra Lafave got three years of house arrest and seven years of probation for having sex with a 14-year-old. I’m betting this guy will get to see the inside of a jail.

    (And to make things clear, Lafave should have gotten a harsher punishment.)

  52. 52.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 10:37 am

    Historical Wit, has pedophilia increased in the last decade? You have any statistics? Certainly the fear of pedophilia has increased, and laws against it have, er, stiffened.

    Obviously anything involved with the internet has increased over the last decade, but pedophilia, which has been the province of relatives, seems to have been around a long time.

  53. 53.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 10:37 am

    Well, obviously my wife is not talking about someone who kept their thoughts and fantasies to themselves. She is someone who witnessed and had to deal with the damage and trauma unflicted first-hand. It might be over the top rhetoric to you, but she is serious about it, and she is anything but stupid. My wife’s position, while extreme (even to me) is one based on personal experience, conviction and raw emotion, not political posturing or grandstanding.

    So, yeah, there is an element of personal rage involved, she is not in any position to implement the death penalty, so pedophiles have nothing to fear from my wife.

    I’m sorry to hear that you were profoundly molested as a child. Seriously. And if you’ve been able to move beyond that, that’s great. But it doesn’t work out that way for a lot of people.

    Many sexual predators have hundreds of victims over a lifetime, and that there seems to no successful treatment for them. They are a continued and constant threat to the most vulnerable segment of our society.

    Any parent that caught someone molesting their child would be justified in my mind killing that person on the spot—my wife’s position is just an extension of that. I don’t know what i would do if someone did that to my daughter, but it would likely be a life-altering experience for me one way or the other—to say nothing of what it would mean to her.

    There is a tough line that I’m not sure can be effectively drawn when it comes to sex offenders. Registering, rehabilitation, sting operations like this one…I’m not sure about a lot of it, but I know I find it profoundly disturbing.

    Don’t telll me to get serious. I am serious. I am not pretending to have this all figured out, this is a tough topic, and your condescension doesn’t move the debate forward either.

  54. 54.

    Al Maviva

    April 5, 2006 at 10:38 am

    In som cases a background check can reveal potential pedophilic behavior even without convictions. For instance, if an applicant has worked many jobs with children (esp. volunteer jobs).

    I’ll remember to beat the s41t out of anybody I meet who volunteers to chaperone youth groups and the like at our local church. Can’t be too careful, you know – it’s potential pedophilic behavior. Esp. those families with lots of kids. They must like kids just a *little* too much.

    Don’t you think that sex education for children would be a good way to protect children from molesters, instead of waiting in fear for someone to try to seduce them and then reacting?

    Um, where in Jesusland is Pacifica, Bob, that you don’t have sex ed in the public schools there? I can’t speak for where you live, but where I live, the ongoing question isn’t whether or not to have sex ed, but rather how in depth the elementary and middle school sex ed classes should get into the esoterica of gay sex above and beyond a few basic acts, and whether it ought to be a sixth grade class, or perhaps restricted to the middle school level. Perhaps the question isn’t whether we ought to teach kids about that kind of thing, but rather why isn’t our childrens gittin’ what we is already book larnin’ ’em?

  55. 55.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 10:40 am

    The above comment is directed to ppGaz. I’ll have to get back to you, Bob. I gotta run.

  56. 56.

    D. Mason

    April 5, 2006 at 10:40 am

    So every Big Brothers/Big Sisters volunteer is now a “potential pedophile?”

    Another reason to not volunteer. I can just imagine being the guy who got denied as job 20 years later because of some volunteer work. What a crock of shit.

  57. 57.

    GOP4Me

    April 5, 2006 at 10:42 am

    Does anyone know anything about Mr. Doyle’s earlier career? Where did he work before? Was he a transfer from some other department? A Clinton hold-over? (Frankly, while that may not be true, it wouldn’t surprise me. Nothing would surprise me at this point.)

    What’s really sad is that this low-level pervert’s off-duty shenanigans will now be used to besmirch the reputation of the agency that keeps us all safe at night, DHS. The mere fact that he was employed there now exposes to ridicule the thousands of his co-workers and subordinates who work night and day unacclaimed and unthanked keeping terrorists at bay. You never hear about the good things they accomplish, but you DO hear about the one assistant to some other assistant in some subordinate apartment who happens to be a pervert in his off-time. The true tragedy here is not merely the evil achieved by Mr. Doyle, it is also the good achieved by Mr. Doyle’s colleagues which is now even further obscured in the miasma of talking points and political “Gotcha!” games.

  58. 58.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 10:47 am

    Let’s just hope that he was caught before he was able to actually DO anything to any young girls, okay?

    And I somehow doubt that all acting pedophiles fit the mould of the lurking, trench-coated, shifty-eyed fellow who skulks near schoolyards. Children have been abused by some of the unlikeliest people. I would presume that ALL government employees have fairly comprehensive background checks, so it could be that there was just nothing to see until now. Either way, I’m glad he was caught.

  59. 59.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 10:56 am

    And I don’t have kids, but I can tell you right now that if any adult ever laid a lascivious hand on one of my nephews, I’d be heading over with a baseball bat and murder in my heart.

    Debra Lafave got three years of house arrest and seven years of probation for having sex with a 14-year-old. I’m betting this guy will get to see the inside of a jail.

    (And to make things clear, Lafave should have gotten a harsher punishment.)

    Agreed completely. There is very much a double standard when it comes to gender. There are a couple of legitimate reasons however, why females typically receive more lenient sentences. As a general rule, their victims are older – adolescents, usually. Secondly, they tend to only have one or two victims. I’m not excusing that behaviour in any way, shape or form. It’s still predatory, abusive, and disgusting. But it is part of the reason why you see more lenient sentences for women. The other part, I think we can probably attribute to gender bias. As a general rule, females do tend to receive lighter sentences because of a pre-conceived notion that females are more innocent and less brutal than men.

  60. 60.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 10:59 am

    I’m sorry to hear that you were profoundly molested as a child. Seriously. And if you’ve been able to move beyond that, that’s great. But it doesn’t work out that way for a lot of people.

    I’m not looking for any sympathy. I’m looking to be immunized from any criticism that I’m insensitive to the issue. On the contrary, I am highly sensitive to the issue, as are all victims. And I know from 50 years of being sensitive to the issue that the vast majority of people who bloviate about it have no idea what the hell they are talking about. They overreact. They hyperventilate. They get hysterical. I happen to believe that in many cases, the hyper reactions of adults can cause more harm to a molested kid than the damned molestation caused in the first place. And I can back that up with personal experience.

    And also, I didn’t say your wife was stupid, so cut that crap. I said that the death penalty declaration was stupid. And it is. Molesting a kid is not a capital offense, not even close.

    Last but not least, I have no respect for, or patience with, the self-declared sex police who are out to protect us from every possible sexual behavior that might possibly cause harm to someone … or just cause injury to sensibilities. Calling for “death to pedophiles” is just irresponsible. Especially given the fact that pedophilia is not a crime.

    And if anyone is really concerned about it, the first thing they ought to do is learn the basic facts and at least get the terminology right.

  61. 61.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 11:00 am

    Al Maviva, reactionary Christians are fighting against sex education. All over Jesusland. It’s the policy of this Administration to prevent children from seeing any sexual images that might cause excitation. All thought about sex must be submerged.

    As far as health education with lots of information about sex there’s some in California schools, but if you start going into too much detail, especially about contraceptives, the Xtians howl. Children who reach a certain age might actually want to, you know, do what people naturally want to do.

    You seem to be howling, Al. Somehow, I don’t think that farming communities in the South and Midwest are inviting leather queens to give demonstrations to grammar school kids before naptime, so I think we can retire that strawman you’re trying to construct.

    If sex education isn’t covering the part about friendly strangers (or family) with candy and internet accounts, then they aren’t covering enough.

  62. 62.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 11:01 am

    ppGaz, if you get an erection at the sight of Mrs. Kleinberg, believe me, it will be unwanted.

    By whom?

  63. 63.

    LITBMueller

    April 5, 2006 at 11:04 am

    “Family values.”

    Heh.

  64. 64.

    GOP4Me

    April 5, 2006 at 11:07 am

    BTW, according to the moonbat database opensecrets.org, 2 of the 3 Brian Doyles in the District of Columbia gave money to Democratic campaigns. Both of them work for the Federal Reserve Board, assuming they aren’t, in fact, the same person. (It would require more research to conclusively determine that, and time is limited.) The Republican Brian Doyle is a self-employed physician. He obviously has no connection to the government, unlike the Brian Doyles working for the Federal Reserve Board.

    Would any of you moonbats care to comment on why people who live in the DC area and have the same name as a pervert tend to give more money to your political organization than to ours?

  65. 65.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 11:08 am

    in-flicted.

    Bob, quickly…molestation has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power. When do you propose to introduce this sex-ed? In many cases we are talking toddlers here.

  66. 66.

    Nikki

    April 5, 2006 at 11:09 am

    Would any of you moonbats care to comment on why people who live in the DC area and have the same name as a pervert tend to give more money to your political organization than to ours?

    Could it be because DC tends to trend blue?

    The perv Brian Doyle lives in Maryland. Look for him there.

  67. 67.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 11:12 am

    I should have been more careful to use the term “child molester” rather than pedophile in my above comments. ppGaz is correct to draw a distinction.

    I gotcha on the sympathy / immunization. That’s what I figured.

  68. 68.

    Tim F.

    April 5, 2006 at 11:14 am

    What’s really sad is that this low-level pervert’s off-duty shenanigans will now be used to besmirch the reputation of the agency that keeps us all safe at night

    Indeed.

    Would any of you moonbats care to comment on why people who live in the DC area and have the same name as a pervert tend to give more money to your political organization than to ours?

    Sad.

  69. 69.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 11:15 am

    Mr. Furious … We’re good.

    Thanks for the follow-up.

  70. 70.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 11:17 am

    And don’t tell me to cut the crap, ppGaz. I’m nearly always in your corner, too, but you take a tone around here and you know it. If you can’t handle a little blowback, you need to tone it down.

    I made a simple comment not directed at you or anyone else. You retort with callls of stupid and everything else. Then, I never said you said my wife was stupid. Read carefully. The fact that you got so defensive about it is revealing, however.

    [grudgingly shaking hands]

  71. 71.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 11:18 am

    [handshake moves to shoulder pat, one arm embrace.]

    We’re cool.

  72. 72.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 11:25 am

    What about all the DHS employees who aren’t child molesters? How come we never hear about them.

  73. 73.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 11:25 am

    Okay, Furious, “we’re good” is retracted. We’re not good.

    And I say again, cut the crap, or at least have the decency to admint the crap. I said wife was “wrong”. Why the FUCK did you come back and say to me, she is not stupid, if not to imply that I had said she was? But if she said “death penalty for pedophiles” all I can tell you is, that’s a stupid thing to say. I don’t care if my mother said, it, it’s just stupid.

    Read carefully, my ass. YOU read carefully.

    As for me taking a tone? Try to pay attention, for crissakes. IT’S ALL THEATER HERE. Half of the posters are spoofs. I post everything for effect, whether it’s road rage, or humor, or a sauce recipe. This is not a medium of record here, man. Get serious.

  74. 74.

    Punchy

    April 5, 2006 at 11:26 am

    First of all, this has nothing to do with Bush. Nada.

    Yes, it does. When your ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION’s M.O. is the hiring of unqualified, overwhelmed political HACKS, it’s your fault. Did B directly hire this clown? No. But he’s made it VERY clear in his Admin. that loyalty ALWAYS ALWAYS trumps both professionalism and experience. It’s only a matter of time until we see, ala Brownie, what OTHER unqualified hacks, pundits, cheerleaders, and sponsors are in charge of things of which they are completely unqualified to operate/oversee.

    I sense this is the start (continuation? Brownie?) of a trend whereby nearly everyone in the B Admin is exposed for the phonies that they are.

  75. 75.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 11:28 am

    Would any of you moonbats care to comment on why people who live in the DC area and have the same name as a pervert tend to give more money to your political organization than to ours?

    *blink*

    Um, sure. I’ll comment. That’s one of the craziest discombobulatory questions I’ve ever seen.

  76. 76.

    Some Other Brian Guy

    April 5, 2006 at 11:28 am

    Here we are, 16 hours into this crisis and yet still no righty blogosphere has stopped to condemn it.

    Instead they’re all worried about Katie Couric.

    I mean, really. Have these people no sense of perspective? We undercover a massive pedophilia ring within the walls of the Department of Homeland Security, and they’re worried about who is going to be the new host of the NBC morning show?

  77. 77.

    Some Other Brian Guy

    April 5, 2006 at 11:30 am

    I’m annoying, ain’t I?

  78. 78.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 11:30 am

    It’s sad that the John Coles of the right refuse to condemn the Brian Doyles of DHS, isn’t it?

  79. 79.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 11:31 am

    I love Some Other Brian Guy. It’s a a whole new twist on satire — using the right’s rhetoric to advance anti-right arguments.

  80. 80.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 11:33 am

    I dunno, I was really really hoping that no matter what level the employee was, that DHS wasn’t hiring people that not only have dangersous predilictions, but are also idiots about giving out information.

    One might start to think that loyalty is garnered through the vetting process, that some of the loyalty is in exchange for keeping shameful secrets. Kinda Machiavellian, but on paper it would make sense. Go ahead and hire the person that you’ve learned the terrible things about, tell them you require absolute loyalty or beans get spilt.

    Just a hypothesis on how to enforce company morale, nothing more.

  81. 81.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 11:34 am

    I think I need to go all Spoof All the Time. DougJ, would you please invent a character for me to write?

    I’d like something that requires travel to exotic locales.

  82. 82.

    Historical Wit

    April 5, 2006 at 11:36 am

    Bob in Pacifica

    Pedophilia up 300%

  83. 83.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 11:36 am

    I’d like something that requires travel to exotic locales.

    As long as you report back on the good news from these exotic locales. Dan Senor says northern Iraq is a great place to vacation, BTW.

    Why don’t you take the name Dan Senor?

  84. 84.

    GOP4Me

    April 5, 2006 at 11:38 am

    What about all the DHS employees who aren’t child molesters? How come we never hear about them.

    For once I actually agree with you, DougJ, even though I know you’re not serious when you ask the question.

    Um, sure. I’ll comment. That’s one of the craziest discombobulatory questions I’ve ever seen.

    Don’t change the subject. It demands an answer.

    Why do Brian Doyles tend to donate to Democrats so much? How does your party leadership stoop to accepting this money? Hard questions demand honest answers.

    I’m waiting, moonbats.

  85. 85.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 11:42 am

    /shifts into court stenographer mode…

    Well actually, Furious, your wife is wrong…that death penalty suggestion, unless it’s just for rhetorical effect, is an insult to intelligence, and isn’t helpful at all. Even if it is for effect, it’s stupid.

    Well, obviously my wife is not talking about someone who kept their thoughts and fantasies to themselves. She is someone who witnessed and had to deal with the damage and trauma unflicted first-hand. It might be over the top rhetoric to you, but she is serious about it, and she is anything but stupid.

    And also, I didn’t say your wife was stupid, so cut that crap. I said that the death penalty declaration was stupid. And it is.

    You retort with calls of stupid and everything else. Then, I never said you said my wife was stupid. Read carefully. The fact that you got so defensive about it is revealing, however.

    /dons judge’s robes

    Mr. Furious, you did kind of imply that ppGaz had called your wife stupid…you didn’t say it flat-out, but the implication was there. It’s not cut-and-dry, however, so can you two just chalk it up to a slip of communication, stop being so g.d. quick to take offense,and do the handshaking and making up again?

  86. 86.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 11:43 am

    Have any of you managed to get that “Bush Was Right” song from Scrutator out of your heads? I haven’t.

  87. 87.

    Pharniel

    April 5, 2006 at 11:45 am

    point of order
    pedophillia – sexual attraction to pre-pubescent individuals

    14 year olds are typically not pre-pubescent, in fact if you were getting boners at 14, and your voice was changing et. al. you’re post pubescent.

    ephibaphilia – sexual attraction to young post-pubsecent partners.

    13+ is legal in canda
    14+ is legal in hawii
    16 is the general age of consent for the feds, UK, and most places.

    12/13 is marryn’ age according to the bible.

    i’m just saying is all, teenage girls are typically, well, y’konw, teenage. there’s an entire market of the pr0nz industry to ‘barely legal’, or eight-teen.

    mostly i’m just worried that my kid will be 14, trying to score and get arrested for “pedophilia” for hitting on a 15 year old in a chatroom, or god forbid one of thier 13 year old classmates.

    54 hitting on 14 is creepty and moraly repugnant, but not ‘pedophilia’. there’s strong biological urges to go after the ‘fresh meat’ there, and some pretty objectoinalble social ones (teenagers are very easy to manipulate, for one), and society needs to control it, but oi. it’s not pedophilia. it’s beeing a criminally creepy fucker, but not pedophilia.

  88. 88.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 11:45 am

    Oh wait. Never mind. I just spoiled your fun, didn’t I?

    Carry on…disregard my last post.

  89. 89.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 11:46 am

    By the way, there are still places on earth where 14 year-olds are married off routinely. The concept of “child molester” doesn’t leap to mind when one talks of say, traditional Moslem mountain tribal cultures. Even devoid of internet access, what would be defined here as adult-child sex is commonplace there.

    I mention this because each culture has profound effects on human sexuality as it is expressed by individual humans within it and condoned by that culture as a whole. Each culture always has.

    In a Western culture like America, where higher education is the means to reach a higher place in society, and where women are supposed to be equal participants in the economy, delaying fertility is essential.

    However, the Xtians want to prevent the methods of contraception that work, such as birth control and abortion, and replace them with abstinence and the accompanying guilt that comes with the self-denial of the release of sexual energy.

    Guilt about sex has never been a successful means of contraception, but it is a powerful tool to control people.

    Since our most basic feelings about sexuality are formed in our infancy and reinforced throughout our adolescence, if a society is based on sexual repression (and they all are, to some extent), then the most powerful weapon of repression has to do with the sexuality of its children. Or so would say Wilhelm Reich. Child sexuality is something that is both feared and desired.

    Check out the packaging of youthful sexuality in marketing. You can’t have the pretty young girl, but you can have the car that is iconically attached to the pretty young girl. And then maybe you can get the pretty young girl.

    Or another car.

  90. 90.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 11:46 am

    I’m nothing with outrage, Krista. Would you take away Superman’s cape?

    And please take note of:

    1) Mr. Furious’ handle, and

    2) The name of this blog

    A guy named “Furious” posts to a blog that means “hot air” and invokes his wife’s name in front of an outrageous statement, and then gets pissed off at me for reacting to it.

    What time will the Countdown people be here?

  91. 91.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 11:48 am

    It’s ironic that a teenager, can’t recall his name but I saw him interviewed on a newsmagazine program, testified before Congress yesterday about how he was not only molested, but was used as a subject for online porn by predators he met online. All started when he got a webcam as a gift when he was housebound with some malady. He was hoping to meet some online friends, and boy, DID HE. Never met any peers, but did meet some guys that took serious advantage of the kid and turned him into a little porn business.

    I cannot begin to understand the mental wiring of sexual predators, child molesters, whatever you want to call them. I do wonder if the sickness can be rehabilitated. It must be a horrible way to live, and obviously very threatening to the most vulnerable in our society.

    I see no opportunity for schadenfreude in this story, whether it be for Doyle, or the administration.

  92. 92.

    Historical Wit

    April 5, 2006 at 11:48 am

    GOP4me

    “Why do Brian Doyles tend to donate to Democrats so much? How does your party leadership stoop to accepting this money? Hard questions demand honest answers.”

    The Democrats stoop the same way Republicans do. They turn a blind eye when it comes to accepting cash money from a suspect source, no matter the source. What about Duke Cunningham? Abramoff? The whole system sucks and people game it. Don’t hate the player hate the game.

  93. 93.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 11:48 am

    Don’t change the subject. It demands an answer.

    Why do Brian Doyles tend to donate to Democrats so much? How does your party leadership stoop to accepting this money? Hard questions demand honest answers.

    **blink**

  94. 94.

    Punchy

    April 5, 2006 at 11:48 am

    discombobulatory

    Holy Christ. And I thought the esotericness of my precocious lexicon was worthy of admiration. Snap!

  95. 95.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 11:53 am

    Dammit, Historical Wit…now you’re talking crazy too. What does campaign finance reform have to do with random people named Brian Doyle?

    And on the definition front, wouldn’t this Brian Doyle be a pederast, not a pedophile? The suffix “phile” merely means interest in, as in bibliophile or audiophile.

  96. 96.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 11:54 am

    Punchy, just wait until we start talking about the debastardification of Congress…

  97. 97.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 11:55 am

    Check out the packaging of youthful sexuality in marketing

    Having two daughters, it frustrates my wife and I to no end how they’re marketed to. The marketing is omnipresent, so you can’t just “turn it off” like a switch.

    But Bob has some great points about how kids are treated in other societies. Also, in ancient times, it was not at all unusual for men to “mentor” young boys, and have a wife at home. It was out in the open, and considered appropriate within boundaries they set. I think though that we can all agree that our revulsion at child predators is focused on the Uncle Ernie-types…..fiddling about, fiddling about, fiddling about!!!

  98. 98.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 11:56 am

    The real question is here is why didn’t the Clinton administration deal do something about Brian Doyle. They had 8 years to catch him.

  99. 99.

    CaptainComeback

    April 5, 2006 at 11:57 am

    I feel bad for Doyle. I know it’s hard to meet other singles in Washington DC, but geeze.

    Why don’t we hear the good news about child pornography?

  100. 100.

    Anderson

    April 5, 2006 at 11:58 am

    I see that towards the end of the thread, we’ve suddenly noticed that 14YO’s are not universally considered as untouchable sexually.

    I frankly would make it a misdemeanor to have consensual sex with anyone above the age of 13 or 14. That of course would change the law of statutory rape, but that’s part of the point.

    When most of us think “child molester,” we are not thinking of somebody having sex with a girl who looks like Britney Spears.

  101. 101.

    Historical Wit

    April 5, 2006 at 12:00 pm

    Crazy is as crazy does…

  102. 102.

    Anderson

    April 5, 2006 at 12:01 pm

    (Now if only there were a “North American Man-Girl Love Association” …. But be VERY careful how you pronounce NAMGLA when you tell people you’re a member.

    Lafave can be a founder of NAWBLA, for that matter.)

  103. 103.

    Paul Wartenberg

    April 5, 2006 at 12:02 pm

    However, I still cannot wrap my mind around how eager this guy was to show his credentials to a “14-year-old-girl” over the internet. When I try to tease apart the layers of pathological stupidity involved in doing something like that it just gives me a headache.

    The guy probably thought he was untouchable, that he had political protection, that he could get this covered up or weasel out of it somehow. You can see that in a lot of Bushies.

  104. 104.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 12:03 pm

    I’m nothing with outrage, Krista

    Without, I presume you mean. As long as your outrage doesn’t render you to complete incoherency. You don’t pay me enough for me to translate for you on a full-time basis.

    And you can cease trying to bust my ovaries…I sided with you on this one, you big grump.

  105. 105.

    gratefulcub

    April 5, 2006 at 12:05 pm

    GOP4Me,

    I did not read all the posts after he started talking about brian doyle’s donating to democrats, yada yada yada.

    Is anyone out there trying to make this a republican issue? Or a Bush issue?

    If so….STOP IT!!!!!

    This was just some twisted fuck, we got ‘em on both sides. He wasn’t a high level appointee, it doesn’t matter when he was hired.

    He wasn’t lusting over kids because he was excited about tax cuts or because he was furious about amnesty for Mexicans.

    This story has exactly the same political significance as Natalie Holloway, a bride getting cold feet, Bennifer, or whether Katie is too perky for prime time news.

  106. 106.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 12:05 pm

    Mr. Furious, sex and its repression has to do with power. But people who say that people who are attracted to a certain group of people do so only for power and not because of sexual desire are kidding themselves. I think its a “truth” that is generally accepted but not necessarily always true. There is a power imbalance, as there is an inherent power imbalance between rich men and poor women, or between smart men and stupid women, but one must presume at some point such couples do get down and there are mutual benefits, including the sex.

    I think that the idea that child molestation as only about power is part of the same denial of sexuality. I think we’d do better to move beyond that if we want to do more than sending child molesters to the electric chair.

    As far as sex education, this string started out talking about someone posing as a 14-year-old, which presumes that the government feels that that age is sufficiently vulnerable to create police stings to protect them from sexual advances of adults. At least in this discussion, I see you introducing people who molest toddlers as creating a “strawbaby,” if you will.

  107. 107.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:05 pm

    Not to brag, but I had sex with a nice looking woman who was a customer on my paper route when I was like 14. I wasn’t damaged by it, nor did it even occur to me to think a crime was committed against me.

    On the other hand, if she had looked like this, I would have cried to the cops.

  108. 108.

    Punchy

    April 5, 2006 at 12:07 pm

    Punchy, just wait until we start talking about the debastardification of Congress…

    I surmise that you’re tangentially referencing the Scorpio-related date by which those with functioning cardiac muscle and cerebrum indicate via an electronic gizmotron our intention to usurp the current dominion and thus exchange them henceforth with more appropriate non-clowns.

  109. 109.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:09 pm

    bust my ovaries

    That’s a new one. Too bad I can’t use it. Damn sexist humor.

    Speaking of sex humor, I saw the South Park where Eric gets caught up with NAMBLA. My wife thought it was a made up acronym, and I told her it was real. We thought about googling it, but thought again. I’m afraid I’d have FBI agents looking into me right away. Not worth it.

    I worked for a major TV network, and one of our producers apparently had been seeking out underage friends online (if you know what I mean). FBI came in to work one day, and escorted the dude away, never to be seen again.

  110. 110.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 12:12 pm

    Pharniel:

    mostly i’m just worried that my kid will be 14, trying to score and get arrested for “pedophilia” for hitting on a 15 year old in a chatroom, or god forbid one of thier 13 year old classmates.

    I believe that most statutory rape laws have a “Romeo-and-Juliet” clause for circumstances where the age difference is minimal.

    A good general rule that I heard in regards to age-appropriateness is this: take your age, divide it in two, and add 7. That’s the youngest age you can be hitting on without being completely creepy. So, if you’re 34, and you hit on girls younger than 24, you’re pushing it in the “icky” department.

  111. 111.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 12:18 pm

    That’s a new one. Too bad I can’t use it. Damn sexist humor.

    Hey, there are a lot of male-genitalia-centric epithets, insults, and general put-downs that I can’t use. I adapt them whenever I can, but sometimes it just doesn’t have the same effect.

  112. 112.

    HH

    April 5, 2006 at 12:19 pm

    “By not showing sufficient outrage, they are defending this guys activities.”

    See Scott Ritter… and Cynthia McKinney while we’re at it.

  113. 113.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 12:21 pm

    Historical Will,

    “Security vendor Panda Software Thursday announced a 300 percent increase in calls reporting online child pornography over the last three years.”

    So you are not actually talking about pedophilia being up 300%, but calls to a software vendor reporting “online child pornography.” Now, first off, do all people who experience pedophilia or child molestation, or even “online child pornography,” call this company? Of course not. Did this company market some kind of software for limiting access to pornorgraphy on personal computers? That alone would explain any increase in phone calls to that company regarding “online child pornography.” That would not necessarily have anything to do with child pornography (pictures of children performing sex) but children’s access to pornography. It’s hard to imagine Panda Software marketing a product that will allow children to look at healthy adult pornography but block child pornography.

    By the way, any increase with online anything, pornography, chatrooms generally, blogs, whathaveyou, is happening because there has been an expansion in the internet.

    So, again, is pedophilia and child molestation up under the purview of the Bush Administration? I mean, besides at Homeland Security.

  114. 114.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:22 pm

    Not to brag, but I had sex

    Yeah, uh huh. “Not to brag.”

    And the really offensive part is, this was only a year ago.

    Have you no shame?

    Besides, just because a goat is “nice looking” doesn’t make it okay.

  115. 115.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:23 pm

    By not showing sufficient outrage, they are defending this guys activities

    Let’s take a moment to see what the Left is outraged against, shall we? Even weddings aren’t off limits.

  116. 116.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:23 pm

    Shorter Brian:

    I don’t know how to quit ewe.

  117. 117.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:25 pm

    Besides, just because a goat is “nice looking” doesn’t make it okay.

    Ahhh, but a photo and some tape, and that goat becomes…..Jenna Jameson!!

  118. 118.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    I don’t know how to quit ewe.

    “Take my wife, please!!”

    You’re on fire today, Shecky

  119. 119.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:30 pm

    I just want to know….what’s this world cumming to?

  120. 120.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 12:32 pm

    Damn, and I’ve been on this lousy paper route for forty-six years and still haven’t gotten any.

  121. 121.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    I wasn’t damaged by it

    Could have fooled me.

  122. 122.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    Damn, and I’ve been on this lousy paper route for forty-six years and still haven’t gotten any.

    Yeah, but the guy with San Quentin on his route is happy all the time.

  123. 123.

    John S.

    April 5, 2006 at 12:35 pm

    Ahhh, but a photo and some tape, and that goat becomes…..Jenna Jameson!!

    That’s way more thought than I would have ever invested in bestiality – even for the sake of comedy.

  124. 124.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:35 pm

    Okay, how many times do we have to go over this?

    “Pedophilia” is not a crime. It’s a thought.

    You can’t be charged with a crime for having a thought.

    Acting on pedophilia, possible crime.

    Pedophilia, no crime.

    Questions?

  125. 125.

    Some Other Brian Guy

    April 5, 2006 at 12:36 pm

    Let’s take a moment to see what the Left is outraged against, shall we? Even weddings aren’t off limits.

    Let’s not. How about that? How about we stick to the subject of this thread, and that is… Why isn’t the right sufficiently outraged about pedophilia?

    On the other hand, Dan Senor getting married does raise a fantastic opportunity to spoof about honeymooning in Baghdad.

    Not to mention, the whole fact that the mainstream news media is controlled by Republican shrills.

    This is amazing news Brian! Let’s talk about it some more!

  126. 126.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 12:36 pm

    Brian – not the entire left is outraged about that. Some rather rude people are. Many on the left have actually condemned the over-the-top reactions to those weddings (Broadsheet on Salon, for one example.

    This broad generalization of what “The Left” is outraged about…well, it’s just plain silly. It’s like saying that “The Right” is outraged because one of those freakazoids at Scrutator has a bug up his butt about something.

  127. 127.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 12:40 pm

    But Some Other Brian Guy is right. Why focus on silliness like that? Tom Delay is imploding, and a DSH official is hitting on ‘tweens. Your link to HuffPo is nothing more than an attempt to distract (yes, it worked on me, but I’m easily distracted…oh neat! I just saw a hawk fly past my window!)

  128. 128.

    Tim F.

    April 5, 2006 at 12:40 pm

    Let’s take a moment to see what the Left is outraged against, shall we?

    Composition fallacy. Quit pitching softballs.

  129. 129.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:41 pm

    “The left” always gets a bad rap.

    What do you guys think righty christians mean when they cry out, “Satan, get thee behind me?”

    I rest my case.

  130. 130.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    Actually, I worked for the Post Office as a letter carrier most of my adult life. When I first started out in a small town back east I subbed for the regular carriers when they were on vacation or called in sick.

    I remember one day filling in for a guy we’ll call Tony, who’d called in. There was this one house with a mailslot in the door a little below waisthigh. As I was bent over putting the mail in the slot the door swung open and I found myself face to face with a pair of very tight blue jeans buttoned but unzipped with a very bushy woman thang very close to my nose. I straightened up and the woman gasped, “Oh, I thought you were Tony!” I said, “Uh, I’m Tony’s replacement.” She snatched the mail and slammed the door.

    But it hasn’t affected me negatively.

  131. 131.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 12:44 pm

    I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again — the right-wing is nothing more than a cult. If Karl Rove told Brian to fly to Guyana and drink poison Kool-Aid in order to defeat the Islamofasicsts, he’d probably do it.

    Who knows, maybe he’d meet a nice-looking woman on the way down?

  132. 132.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:44 pm

    Uh, she “snatched” the mail?

    Where are the language police today?

    Again, viewer discretion is advised ….

  133. 133.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 12:44 pm

    Okay, I was affected negatively by it, but I wasn’t damaged.

  134. 134.

    Bob In Pacifica

    April 5, 2006 at 12:47 pm

    Yes, snatched. So to speak. I was filling in. I straightened up. The woman gasped.

    So to speak.

  135. 135.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:49 pm

    You mean, you received a negative charge?

    Lint began sticking to you, things like that?

  136. 136.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:50 pm

    Who knows, maybe he’d meet a nice-looking woman on the way down?

    Or, on the way b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ck.

  137. 137.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:50 pm

    There was this one house with a mailslot in the door a little below waisthigh.

    did you ever ask Tony what the game was they were playing? Some mailman twist on playing doctor, eh? “Hello, ma’am. I have a large, thick bundle of mail for you.”

    “Thank you, my boy. Just slip it into my little mail slot here, if you don’t mind. You don’t mind, do you? Of course not. Oh, my! That IS a big piece of mail!”.

    Quit pitching softballs

    There were demands on this site for Righty outrage over this. As if the Left places its outrage appropriately (hence my link to the wedding comments). And, here’s but one example of criticism from the right on the DHS guy.

  138. 138.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:52 pm

    “Oh my, Bob, that IS a big flashlight!”

  139. 139.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:53 pm

    DougJ,

    Go check your NAMBLA account. You have mail. We have better things to discuss here, like the snatching of mail.

  140. 140.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 12:53 pm

    What’s the matter, Brian? DougJ get your goat?

  141. 141.

    DougJ

    April 5, 2006 at 12:56 pm

    I think Brian was joking. Good for him.

  142. 142.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 12:56 pm

    Have you folks ever entertained having a Balloon Juice event for the community of commenters? We could have a karaoke or stand up night, with ppGaz as the emcee.

  143. 143.

    Punchy

    April 5, 2006 at 12:58 pm

    a very bushy woman thang very close to my nose.

    Where do i begin? I mean, seriously, the joke writes itself…and I love “thang”. That’s sweet. So sexy.

  144. 144.

    gratefulcub

    April 5, 2006 at 1:02 pm

    Why isn’t the right sufficiently outraged about pedophilia?

    Please tell me this is a joke

  145. 145.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 1:02 pm

    Have you folks ever entertained having a Balloon Juice event for the community of commenters?

    Gad, I can picture it now…(shudder). Some people should just not ever be in the same room, Brian.

  146. 146.

    fwiffo

    April 5, 2006 at 1:04 pm

    There were demands on this site for Righty outrage over this….

    Just to clarify, those were parodies of people on the right who constantly whine that the left isn’t sufficiently outraged about, e.g. Cynthia McKinney or that lefties don’t say bad things often enough about Saddam Hussein.

    If you were actually aware of that, then bravo, you snagged me.

  147. 147.

    Some Other Brian Guy

    April 5, 2006 at 1:11 pm

    There were demands on this site for Righty outrage over this. As if the Left places its outrage appropriately (hence my link to the wedding comments). And, here’s but one example of criticism from the right on the DHS guy.

    That’s hardly very outrageous. I mean if this was Dan Rather, the guy would have devoted at least 10 minutes to his rant instead of the 30 seconds it took him to write that shiit.

    Why doesn’t the right condemn pedophilia more often?

    Are they all members of NAMGLA or something?

  148. 148.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 1:12 pm

    Some people should just not ever be in the same room, Brian.

    the group photo would look something like this.

  149. 149.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 1:13 pm

    Why doesn’t the right condemn pedophilia more often?

    Is it a threat to national security?

  150. 150.

    tBone

    April 5, 2006 at 1:16 pm

    Anderson –

    I frankly would make it a misdemeanor to have consensual sex with anyone above the age of 13 or 14.

    Great idea – like my wife doesn’t have enough excuses to avoid sex already. “Oh, I’d love to honey, but it’s a misdemeanor. Sorry.”

  151. 151.

    Andrew

    April 5, 2006 at 1:19 pm

    Why isn’t the right sufficiently outraged about pedophilia?

    They’re busy fingering their dogs’ anuses?

  152. 152.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 1:45 pm

    They’re busy fingering their dogs’

    I think by rule, this marks the end of the thread.

  153. 153.

    yet another jeff

    April 5, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    Too rich for my blood, I fold.

  154. 154.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 1:54 pm

    Yeah, I have to go finger my dog’s anus anyhow.

  155. 155.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 1:57 pm

    I think the Balloon Juice reunion would look more like this.

  156. 156.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 1:58 pm

    Just make sure the dog is legal age, guys.

  157. 157.

    Perry Como

    April 5, 2006 at 2:01 pm

    Maybe he thought she was a 14 year old terrorist?

  158. 158.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 2:01 pm

    Oh, and ppGaz and I are missing from that photo because we’ve stepped outside…

  159. 159.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 2:03 pm

    ppGaz-

    Alright, I’ll meet you back inside for a Sorian brandy. On me. Are we cool now?

    So, does that mean you’ve actually visited my blog? :-)

  160. 160.

    Nikki

    April 5, 2006 at 2:06 pm

    Did anyone else know that Frank Figueroa was the former head of the Department of Homeland Security’s program to stop child predators (Operation Predator)?

  161. 161.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 2:07 pm

    Yes, we’re cool.

    Drinks are on me.

    But I am NOT shaking hands with Brian, for reasons that I hope are obvious

  162. 162.

    Anderson

    April 5, 2006 at 2:40 pm

    Great idea – like my wife doesn’t have enough excuses to avoid sex already. “Oh, I’d love to honey, but it’s a misdemeanor. Sorry.”

    Yes, but she’s 91 in dog years, so it’s legal.

  163. 163.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 2:41 pm

    I have to admit, Mr.F, I had’t seen your blog since about last summer. I just perused it again.

    It’s too nice for me. I really need constant fury and rage to keep me going.

    When things are slow, I turn on Limbaugh and get my blood pressure up a couple hundred points.

  164. 164.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 2:44 pm

    Brian just called and said he is feeling a little sheepish.

  165. 165.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 2:48 pm

    Brian also said to tell you all that he is “on the lam,” I think he said.

    Whatever that means.

  166. 166.

    Mr Furious

    April 5, 2006 at 3:06 pm

    I just perused it again…It’s too nice for me.

    What can I say? It’s been a less angry couple of weeks…

  167. 167.

    tBone

    April 5, 2006 at 3:18 pm

    Yes, but she’s 91 in dog years, so it’s legal.

    So what you’re saying is . . . telling my wife that she’s a geriatric bitch will get me some?

    Note to self: never take advice from Anderson.

  168. 168.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 3:29 pm

    Brian called to say he has written a new song:

    “Wool you still love me tomorrow?”

  169. 169.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 3:32 pm

    Brian is still at it:

    “You only love my hoof as much as I love you.”

  170. 170.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 3:38 pm

    Still more from Brian:

    “Bleats Release Me, Let Me Go.”

  171. 171.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 3:44 pm

    Brian outdoes himself:

    “If cloven ewes are wrong, I don’t wanna be right.”

  172. 172.

    nyrev

    April 5, 2006 at 3:49 pm

    Um, where in Jesusland is Pacifica, Bob, that you don’t have sex ed in the public schools there?

    I can tell you from personal experience that the extent of sex ed in Ohio public schools in the 90s was: This is your uterus. If you have sex, there’ll be a baby in there.

  173. 173.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 4:06 pm

    Who do I have to fuck to get out of this thread?

  174. 174.

    nyrev

    April 5, 2006 at 4:15 pm

    Wait… ppGaz, are you saying that Brian had a little lamb?

  175. 175.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 4:20 pm

    B-a-a-a-a-a-h

  176. 176.

    nyrev

    April 5, 2006 at 4:22 pm

    It’s all so clear now. And that “fleece as white as snow” isn’t fooling anybody.

  177. 177.

    nyrev

    April 5, 2006 at 4:39 pm

    You’d better be careful, though. Hell hath no fury like a “woman” shorn.

  178. 178.

    Paul Wartenberg

    April 5, 2006 at 4:43 pm

    ***Update 2***

    Christy Hardin Smith has prosecuted a number of pedophilia cases so her post at Firedoglake should be the definitive read for now. She also believes that a background check would have turned something up, but that seems unlikely to me unless Doyle had prior convictions or underage relatives willing to spill unpleasant secrets to a stranger with a badge.

    She also catches this:

    Another Homeland Security official — Frank Figueroa, special agent in charge of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Tampa — faces trial this week on charges of exposing himself to a teenage girl last year at a mall. Figueroa, who has been suspended, pleaded not guilty.

    Well, for one thing, Figueroa has changed the plea to No Contest for some reason or another. But the really nasty part? Figueroa was once part of a Homeland Security operation called Predator that, I sh-t you not, went after online pedophiles and child molestors.
    Takes a perv to catch a perv, you think?
    Where did they get these idiots?

  179. 179.

    The Other Steve

    April 5, 2006 at 4:48 pm

    Where did they get these idiots?

    You ever been to a Republican caucus?

    Wall to wall opportunities to pick up idiots.

  180. 180.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 5:00 pm

    B-a-a-a-a-a-h

    Here I cum, little fluffy.

  181. 181.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 5:02 pm

    Here I cum, little fluffy.

    Always the romantic!

  182. 182.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 5:38 pm

    For some reason, this photo seems to be apropos for part of this thread.

    I should get my head examined.

  183. 183.

    ppGaz

    April 5, 2006 at 5:45 pm

    Tim really needs to just set fire to this thread and reduce it to ash. No evidence of it should be left for anyone to find.

  184. 184.

    Brian

    April 5, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    I’ve emailed Tim to stop me before I can post again.

  185. 185.

    Pb

    April 5, 2006 at 6:40 pm

    Tim really needs to just set fire to this thread and reduce it to ash. No evidence of it should be left for anyone to find.

    Seconded. Still LMAO though. :)

  186. 186.

    Krista

    April 5, 2006 at 8:51 pm

    It’s just all so wrong. Wrong, I say!

  187. 187.

    Some Other Brian Guy

    April 5, 2006 at 10:17 pm

    And here we are. 24 hours after this National Crisis began.

    AND STILL THERE IS NO REPUBLICAN CONDEMNATION OF CHILD MOLESTATION!

    What are they afraid of? Pissing off the Union of Catholic Priests and Bishops?

  188. 188.

    Gary Farber

    April 8, 2006 at 12:15 pm

    WTF?

  189. 189.

    Gary Farber

    April 8, 2006 at 12:17 pm

    I made a comment about statistics. Two of them.

    They are no longer here.

    What the hell?

  190. 190.

    Tim F.

    April 8, 2006 at 12:26 pm

    Beats me. The only comment that I have ever deleted involved gross sexual insults and it wasn’t written by you. I don’t know what John has been up to but it doesn’t sound like him either.

  191. 191.

    Tim F.

    April 8, 2006 at 2:01 pm

    Gary, if you mean the two comments about the prevalence of pedophilia at DHS and in the society in general, try looking at this thread where you left them. At the moment you are commenting on a different thread.

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